Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on December 23, 2015, 01:08:14 PM
-
Hi everybody.
I am aware that this job hunt, at 65, may be different than previous ones. And I need courage and some cheering on if anyone's of a mind. I'm trying to be as positive as I can but noticing that I have some real anxiety kicking in. Not panic attack level, but lack of sleep and just some fearful thinking. I try to detour those thoughts as fast as I can.
I know I'll be okay one way or another. What's a little scary about the upcoming trip is that I feel so MUCH is riding on it. (Safely paying off my house without bankrupting my tiny retirement nest egg to do it. Having something substantial enough that I won't be in pure worry mode all the time.) I have a whole lot on the line for this interview.
The man I'm meeting (other side of the country) is a competitor to Nboss and actually loathes him (for pretty good reasons). I can tell from our single conversation on the phone that he's pretty interested in picking my brains for things that will reveal either unethical behavior or advantages on the part of Nboss.
I get that, and competition is fine. But I have a little bit of worry that he'll ply me for whatever he can get but not really intend to offer me a significant position or gig. He might be willing and ready to hire me, but there's no guarantee. So I need to be able to navigate our discussion in a fairly shrewd way, while still being honest, so I don't give all my knowledge away for nothing.
The other thing is that I'll be up at 4am for a 630am flight, arriving noon their time but 3pm my time, touring the factory in the afternoon and then having dinner with him. So by the time we get into the delicate talks, I'll be exhausted.
I'm no spring chicken and I know what travel to CA is like. I'll bull through but I'm worried about losing my edge and being mentally and physically off my game at the time I need to perform my best. I suppose I could take my ADD med (a stimulant, which I've bascially gone off of) around mid-afternoon. But then I have to fly back early the next morning (unless he extends my visit one more day).
I can do this. But I'm scared, so wanted to just reach out for encouragement.
Thanks for listening...
love
Hops
-
Aw Hops.
First off, I think it's natural to be scared. Any kind of change can be scary, and sometimes more if it 'might' be good change, something that brings us an amazing situation, better than we had ever hoped for.
The first thing I wondered is whether the new man might consider changing the flights so you can get in the day before you meet him and be a bit fresher and more rested before your chat? I don't know if that's feasible; if it might mean you paying for an extra hotel night yourself or an admin charge for changing the flights but it might be worth just being honest (I'd be knackered after an early start and a shift in time zone and I'm twenty years younger! So I think it's reasonable that you'd want to give him your best.)
I don't know enough about your field of work to suggest ways that you manage talking to him but I do know that you're intelligent, articulate and a very fair and diligent person. I know that you won't just sit there and run your old boss into the ground; that's just not who you are. I don't know how best to suggest handling negotiations re a job offer and/or anything else that might come up but I do know that you can do that sort of thing with your eyes closed and I know that when you're there you will handle everything professionally and courteously, as you do with everything else.
I tend to take the approach now that if something big doesn't come off it's because something more suitable is coming up. It doesn't always show itself for a while, though, which is the bit I find frustrating. So what I think - and I know this is what you'll do anyway - is that, if you can fly a day earlier that would be good. But if not, the best you can do, under the circumstances, is the best you can do, and your best is better than most other people's, I think. We will all be thinking of you and rooting for you. Cyber hugs coming your way and buckets of encouragement. Lots of love xxx (and confidence that this will work out the right way for you xx).
-
Thanks, Tupp.
Part of the problem is that it's the middle of the holidays and flights are jammed.
I just don't know that I can ask him to rearrange the schedule for my rest...partly because I'm concerned it'll be telegraphing a message that I'm too old to consider. He already asked me on the phone why if I was no longer at previous company I'm not deciding just to retire and enjoy myself. He is older than I am. So age is on his own mind. (I simply told him I am "not done" and have a lot more to contribute to the industry.)
I don't know if it's some kind of endurance test, or if he's hoping to negotiate with me when I am at the end of such a long day, or what. Or if he's just thoughtless. So I think I'm stuck with what they've scheduled. Or, it might be that flights were impossible.
Either way it's not an ideal situation for making a strong impression and negotiating with my wits about me. A friend just told me that my adrenalin will kick in and I'll get through the whole day (and evening) just fine.
I hope she's right. I feel out of shape, anxious and frail. NOT the impression I want to give. I did go buy new clothes and will get a good haircut.
The rest is a wing and a prayer.
Thank you, Tupp. I really do need encouragement right now.
love
Hops
-
Thanks, Tupp.
Part of the problem is that it's the middle of the holidays and flights are jammed.
I just don't know that I can ask him to rearrange the schedule for my rest...partly because I'm concerned it'll be telegraphing a message that I'm too old to consider. He already asked me on the phone why if I was no longer at previous company I'm not deciding just to retire and enjoy myself. He is older than I am. So age is on his own mind. (I simply told him I am "not done" and have a lot more to contribute to the industry.)
I don't know if it's some kind of endurance test, or if he's hoping to negotiate with me when I am at the end of such a long day, or what. Or if he's just thoughtless. So I think I'm stuck with what they've scheduled. Or, it might be that flights were impossible.
Either way it's not an ideal situation for making a strong impression and negotiating with my wits about me. A friend just told me that my adrenalin will kick in and I'll get through the whole day (and evening) just fine.
I hope she's right. I feel out of shape, anxious and frail. NOT the impression I want to give. I did go buy new clothes and will get a good haircut.
The rest is a wing and a prayer.
Thank you, Tupp. I really do need encouragement right now.
love
Hops
I think your friend is right about the adrenalin and something I've realised over the years is that how I feel often isn't the way I come across. That can be a good or a bad thing depending on the situation! But I'd hazard a guess that even if you're not feeling your best it won't be obvious to him. Completely understand what you're saying about the flights, these things aren't always easy to alter! Do you think he booked things up or would it have been a secretary? I'm just wondering if he's even aware of what the schedule is from your point of view (I don't mean that from a point of view of trying to get him to change but if someone else booked it it perhaps knocks out some of those nagging questions?).
Go get em! The way I see it, Hops, is worse case scenario, your situation is the same after your trip as it is now. Best case scenario it will be a whole lot better? I don't know if there are inbetween options? You have handled things that are far more difficult than this and I know you'll cope with the situation, however it unfolds, even if you're not feeling great about it. Great that you're getting new clothes and a haircut, too! Is there anything you can plan for yourself for when you get back as a little treat or downtime? Sending positive thoughts your way xxx
-
Good Luck Hops. You obviously are qualified. Everything else though is a random act of god. imo
This has been a long time coming, this seeking of what else is out there.
Often the way one perceives the self is not the same as what others see. You might feel frail. Frailty etc is not what you project and it's not what he will see. They are seeing an asset.
-
Try this one on for size Hops.
You know you're probably not going to be at your best to negotiate later in the day, that day. You're allowed to plead fatigue. I would not trade dirt on Nboss at this stage, in exchange for a job. (bad karma) If that's what he wants - this isn't the right opportunity for you. If he doesn't do that, and makes you an offer right then & there, then tell him it's been a lot of change in a hurry for you and you'd like some time to think it over before deciding yea/nay.
YOU are in charge of the process. Not him; he's the one that's begging a favor here.
What I would pay attention to and ask for, from him - is the nuts & bolts of the employer/employee relationship and contract. Benefits are still big these days. So are the "rules". Then, the work itself and what he sees in the future of the company. Not gauche to ask about the financials (or do the research online, if you can) either. Who wants to take a job and find out they're filing Chapter 11 in a couple months or being sold?
You have impeccable credentials and experience. Worth your weight in gold. And not because you can provide the nitty-gritty on Nboss - just drop that completely out of the equation. Of course, knowing what you know will enable you to help this guy be competitive against him. (and why I said you don't want to sign the non-disclosure; at least it wasn't a non-compete agreement) But that's not what this opportunity or meeting should be about. Tell the man, straight out - you're not comfortable "selling secrets" to gain a job. If that sours the deal so be it.
That's not who you are and stuff like that will always come back to bite you.
-
Hi Hops
Just got back from being away up island. Wow, you are going for an interview. This is excellent and so out of the box.
I hear FEAR coming through loud and clear so must be way out of the safe box. Remember the anacronym FEAR is false evidence appearing real. You have ever aspect of this prefigured in your mind and I have no doubt you are capable. I think that job hunting involves things we have no control over. There is no miraculous thing you can do to MAKE it happen and if it does not happen, it is totally ok. Often it means it was a really crappo boss or something that was unsuited to you. Too bad this triggers wanting to please but it always seems to.
I am pretty sure your adrenalin will take care of the jet lag for this interview. You are awesome and have so much to offer. Whatever the new boss wants to extract from you I am sure you will intuit the layout of his agenda very easily.
I was soooooo scrared to retire and then I started my online business and it has helped enormously and is pretty easy. I thought losing my job was the end of the world but there are things that can happen that can be so much better for you than living a life in an emotional straightjacket.
I sooooo wish you the best and this will happen for you if it is for your higher good.
Bye for now
Sea storm
-
I was thinking about the thought that this employer might want to get you to disclose stuff about your boss. This is just too weird a triangle.
Here are some strategies
he says: Now tell me frankly why you want to leave your job to move and start here?
Hops: Oh .... can you tell me how to spell Ethics? Big laugh. Switch gears entirely. I am excited about this job and the directions that the company is going and the sense effective teamwork that makes this place so effective
Or:
I hear your boss really is a bottom feedings scum sucker and I wonder what divine skills you use to keep your head from falling off ( or something to that effect)
Hops: Smiling ..../ I use my regular skills of perception, thinking quickly, conflict resolution and impeccable knowledge base to work honestly and productively with everyone. That said, I prefer egalitarian, collegial , creative problem solving.
Jet lag takes at least a day to kick in so you will be ok. I hope this is something you want to do. Seems like it usually takes a few kicks at the can to score a job. You seem like the kind of employee that could be head hunted. I agree that agism is a factor but not a huge one when the employer is truly looking for high level skills, which you have.
Keep a cool tool
Sea
-
Thank you all so much. I was thinking as I drifted off how profound and real your support is. In many ways it's more concentrated and thoughtful than feedback I can find in the real world or with 3-D friends. I think you must be 4-D. I deeply appreciate it.
Tupp, just as you've suggested. I've started to say to myself as a calming thought, "I'm going to do the best I can." Simple as it is, that really is the answer I think. It lowers my anxiety every time I've say it to myself. If the best I can do isn't enough, that's not something I would have been able to change. So it brings a little peace.
Thanks also for reminding me that he can't mind-read, and that how I come across may not be all oozing vulnerability or confusion. He may find me sharp and competent and like a vision of excellence. (Cough.) I DO have skills he needs. And he's in his early 70s so I may come across as a spring chicken. Har!
TT, these questions are hardly stupid, they're the core of it:
Does the competitive knowledge you have (that he wants) have a stand alone value?
I think it does. But even more than the goods on my former employer, I offer skills at the the storytelling and education side of branding in our specific niche that his company doesn't have, I believe. My former employer's image shines and succeeds largely because I built it. Hundreds of pages of what they now call "content" (ugh) written in a believable and trustworthy voice and at an intelligent level. His company's site shows some subtle stridency and insecurity and is nowhere as visually appealing as my former company's. If he's open to it, I could direct and directly contribute to a shining revamp of the whole thing that I think would appeal far more to the kind of consumer in the niche. (One happy thing I learned from our first call is that his company is about twice the size of the former one--or does twice the business. It's not because they have a prettier image...but they've been around longer and invested more at the beginning. Their own factory, for example...while Nboss' operation actually assembles more than makes.)
Is there a possibility that you could work for this CEO from your present home?
To do this in some form is near-essential to me, I think. My preference would be one week there per month and the rest from my home office. Totally doable. Or I could come out for 3 months to start (but would want to bring my dog), then continue part here/part there. I would move out there temporarily if he paid me a salary big enough to justify the short-term pain of it. I could agree to one full year out there and then a new arrangement that gets me mostly home again. I really need my community, my friends and my home. But if salary is under discussion and a Really Good one is possible, then I'd have to be open to compromising where I want to live. It's get me to retirement faster. Moving all the way across the country is a last-ditch thing for me, though. I might consider approaching other companies amenable to me working from home before I'd uproot. All depends on a real offer, the shape of it.
Boat, you are cogent and to the point, as always. Thank you. I'm glad you perceive strength and you are injecting me with confidence. Thank you. You're right that the rest is in the hand of the universe. That's extremely helpful as well. You're reminding me that I only can control what I can control and releasing the outcome after doing my best is a peaceful way to proceed. Thank you for believing in me. Back at you. And long time coming? Oh YES. We have both been in the traces.
PR, you can hunt my head any time. Thank you for putting some starch in my spine and reminding me that I'm interviewing HIM. It reminds me of advice I've read so many places about dating. When one is terrified or keeps mentally returning to the idea of "but what will he think of ME" or "how can I contort myself so he'll like ME" etc...I've always spotted that in friends and been able to give the advice to flip that thought....no, keep your focus on how do I feel about HIM. And to focus on the nuts and bolts of any employment relationship, the realities of the company, etc.
I know he'd love to know what I know about exNboss, of course. And I needn't feel dirty about reaching out to him partly because they loathe each other. Because there's another reason that has nothing to do with that. The larger reason is that I know this industry, regardless of the players. There are not that many people with my broad knowledge base floating around out there. I can honestly say that even if I had nary an insider scoop to share, I'd still be a valuable addition. To any of the few key player companies in this area. Thank you.
One more thing I'd like your thoughts on, PR--the truth is, I was fired. I hate not being able to tell the story like a human being. But I know it's a trigger for some to automatically dismiss an applicant. I don't think he will, but it's possible. Frankly, I think if I told the true story, "I wrote a critical comment that referred to him as a fake, and accidentally OR subliminally sent it to him" he might even be amused. Not only is it a corroboration of his own opinion of Nboss (who stole his design and claimed it as his own), but it's the truth. Do you think that's reckless? Because it's a common question and the usual mumbly-peas applicant answers I always find very transparent: well I am seeking new opportunities or a new challenge or blah blah... All I've told him so far were two things (a long phone conversation). Ummm, the first was simply: "I have parted ways with Company (with Nboss, basically...)." And the second was a bit more revealing (eek)--toward the end of our talk: "Well, there's only so much Koolaid you can drink before you choke on it, you know?" He laughed. (That was my reference to the guru stuff, which I haven't discussed with him in detail but which he may find interesting. It's psychological insight, but not competitive info, I think.)
Like TT, you mentioned not trading secrets. I get that, but honestly, I don't know the numbers side of the business. But I do have stories. And at some point, were I to work for him, the stories will spill out. It's like having been in a horrible marriage for years, then out...no way I could get to know someone well without sharing some of what I'd lived through. But maybe another side of this is that I need to be careful not to overshare anyway (a vulnerability of mine) and keep it professional. While being friendly too. I find that balance difficult and I'm still reeling with a bit of trauma. Maybe the answer is going to lie in very careful language. I can intimate some of the story without spelling it all out.
And TT, you're right...he doesn't know any details of Nexboss' lack of ethics unless I explain them. I will be wary of doing so unless I have an actual job contract. Could backfire in ways I can't anticipate. Morally, I don't quite see a conflict. (I have never signed anything--contract, non compete or non disclosure.) What I mean is, if I know for a fact that a competitor lies or cheats, based on direct experience, is it immoral to tell a new employer so? My only worry would be newboss putting it on the new company's website, because that would alert Nexboss to where I've gone. And...as an N, he'd scorch earth to get even in some way. Then again isn't loyalty a two-way street? He showed me absolutely none, nor gratitude. I appreciate that he was angry that I called him fake -- his anger's justified. But the nuclear consequence was not, at least in CEO's and other Directors' opinions--particularly after my apology and major amends. They felt any boss who expects no employee to ever criticize from the rank, is naive. But a guru in an ashram would expel anyone with the snap of a finger for lapsing in adoration. So that's what he learned.
Sea, thank you so much for the suggestions as to how to suggest why I left but pivot to better subjects immediately. I really like those. At some point I may have to go a little deeper but something about an allusive response (Can you tell me how to spell ethics? Sexists?) is a good idea. I tend to be SO open and direct that I'll want to try to hold my story more lightly. It ain't just the drama of the stories I have to offer, it's real and high-functioning skills his company could really use, even if I never had worked for his competition. I'll try to keep the focus there.
And thanks for the encouragement. I know it ain't over until the fat lady sings. I'm about 20 pounds fat but I got new clothes and a great haircut--and I ain't singing.
love and gratitude to all,
Hops
-
Hops:
I'm hoping the potential new boss is happy to have such a treasure trove of information, skills, and experience all the way around.
If he invited you all the way to California, just to rat out your Nboss every way imaginable, that will be very sad.
I don't think that's what he has planned AND it feels like he'd pull off a deeply gratifying gotcha IF he hired you, and let Nboss stew worrying about what you might say and do that negatively impacts him. People like the Nboss assume everyone's as underhanded and corrupt as they are, IME.
I have to say....... I agree with sKeP about not making this about sabotage, and unprofessional relationships, not that you would.
You're skills, and experience are desirable. The fact that it would feel like a WIN over the Nboss, for the potential new boss......
is perhaps priceless.
::crossing fingers and hoping::
In any case, you're both professionals, and you have much to discuss besides Nboss, and all the drama.
Any residual sour grapes and turmoil Nboss experiences from this meeting, or new hire, is icing,errrrr.... karma on the cake, IMO.
Dazzle this new guy, Hops. I think you'll figure out how to pace yourself, and find energy for the conversations ahead.
Good luck,
Lighter
-
About telling you were fired. I honestly don't think that is a problem in this situation.
He appears to know some about nboss; and would agree that he's a bit "tetched" (as TT describes it). What I found (quickly) with my old nboss, was that I really didn't have to describe all elaborate, mental/emotional/spiritual pas de deux to other people who knew him - they ALREADY knew that. So, then to simply say "I did this; oops - and then he did this" is quite enough to describe what you endured and keeps you away from the still-touchy emotional side of things. Include your last "critique" session of nboss, too. Seriously - this is more important to the prospective boss, and goes further than the typical resume/portfolio could ever go to demonstrate your worth. (Just skip the personal issues or mention them, but not in detail.) Validate your own judgement of the situation, your own feelings; CLAIM them. And hold that head up. Lots of people put up with same or worse for a paycheck and stability in their lives. It doesn't brand you as any particular type of person, ya know.
People survive abusive situations with their "selves" (worse for wear, but:) intact; they aren't all chronic victim-role players either. I would say that's definitely not who you are and I would watch out for any indication that newboss might want to pigeonhole you there. Put a stop to that quick and in no uncertain terms. It might just be a device he would use to draw you out, but some things can stay personal - right?
In today's world, it seems that technology has become overly complex (and is pushing the envelope of entropy) while there is an oversimplification and over-reductionism of what humanity, the psyche, the soul is. Way too much duality to be real; it's just a sales technique or subtly manipulative propaganda - either/or. No third path; no AND; no variations on the theme.
Oops; digression has raised it's impertinent little head again... LOL... so I'll stop here.
-
Well, I missed my flight by 5 min. Rebooked everything for tomorrow with fingers crossed it won't cause havoc at their end. I think because we're still in the holiday travel period, they'll forgive me. Not hard to understand holiday travel challenges, although the truth is it's my own time mismanagement. Aaaaack.
Thanks, TT for these extra helpful thoughts. You're right, I should be clear and thoughtful about adding value for them--website, revenue, etc. I can't number-crunch enough to tell him he could expect XX% profit, etc., but since my previous company grew rapidly and publicly, I think he'll be able to figure that out. Mainly, if he understands and endorses the ideas for improvements I'll propose, he'll be able to grasp the likely impact on revenue. Branding isn't proven in a direct-data way, except by the infernal SEO and click-counting. (If you don't know what those mean, count yourself fortunate!)
I wouldn't meet again with Nboss to negotiate anything, ever. The situation is way too toxic to imagine dialogue between us of any sort, ever again. I'm relieved that door is closed, and am glad he's firmly on the other side of it. I'm not going to sign anything he handed me, and I'm pretty sure that's the wisest course. With no contract, non-compete or non-disclosure agreement in existence, I'm truly a free woman. I will still be checking with an employment attorney but either way, I'm not signing any agreements with exNboss. His lack of ethics would show up there as much as anywhere, and I don't want to set myself up to be tricked, which could well happen.
As to what I owe exNboss morally, that's a mixed bag. I will stay in touch with my values but I also feel there is nothing immoral about telling the truth (without unnecessary detail) as my life unfolds. That doesn't mean specific "industrial secrets" but it does mean I should not be muzzled. Once you throw someone away out of spite and without notice, they don't exactly owe you continued image polishing. I won't go on a campaign to tear him down or get revenge, but if a question comes up where my only answer could be true or false, I will go with true if it seems fair. If it seems unfair (on the part of possible new company) then I'll answer more vaguely or change the subject.
I think that's the best I can do with that dilemma. I haven't worked in industry except here...but I believe in business, people do change companies all the time, and there must be precedents. I'll go hit the good business outlets and magazines online and see what I can read up about it. That'll help too.
Many thanks, TT, for putting your mind to this. I really appreciate it, since my mind isn't working on all cylinders!
love
Hops
-
You are so brave and good. I mean you just do the next right thing.
Missed the flight. Ok. Must not put self down for anything at this point. There is just too much change and stress. As a friend I would say to you " Please turn this into a John Clease episode where he is frantically going for an important job interview.
Stay in the moment, dear Hops. You have tons of transferable skills. Problem solving, prioritizing, brilliant editing and writing skills, delegating, team player, funny, sense of poetry, experience in the industry. I don't know exactly what you do but it transfers.
One step at a time. No use over preparing.
I can't think of what to say but want you to know that I can feel how friggin stressful this is for you and I wish I could help more. You have a team of cheerleaders and let their voices be the loudest in your head. You go girl. You are awesome. You are loved.
Sea
-
Thank you so much, Sea.
Your kindness and perceptiveness just come across like waves.
Really. So felt.
(And they're not mad at me about the flight and it's all set for tomorrow.)
Thank you for always thinking the best of me.
love
Hops
-
Grow wings and fly, Hops... metaphorically speaking... into a new adventure.
-
Thanks, (((((((((((PR))))))))))))).
Fly I did. Looooooooooong trip but I'm tucked up in a hotel with an afternoon to laze away.
I'm trying to be open to good things happening, rather than focusing on fears.
I can do this! Uhhh....whatever "this" is. If it's not going to be because of this meeting, I'll find
something else.
Getting away helps me see my life at a remove. How stuck and shrunken I'd let it become. How
much I'd let go of hopes for my health and discovery. Poo on that.
I got some advice via a lawyer pal who asked an employment specialist attorney she's friends with,
who told her it's very very unlikely I can be denied unemployment regardless of having been "written up"
because the reason Nboss STATED was "restructuring." And that's a reason one does qualify. Whew.
That means I can turn down his severance pay along with the "don't ever say anything negative" clause.
Which is worth a slight short-term financial loss because it means he has no power over me again, ever.
(The idea of going into the future looking over my shoulder at his vindictive iNtent would be awful...)
Amazing to think of him receding from my mind and my life. And kind of ghastly to realize how toxic it was.
love
Hops
-
Thanks, (((((((((((PR))))))))))))).
Fly I did. Looooooooooong trip but I'm tucked up in a hotel with an afternoon to laze away.
I'm trying to be open to good things happening, rather than focusing on fears.
I can do this! Uhhh....whatever "this" is. If it's not going to be because of this meeting, I'll find
something else.
Getting away helps me see my life at a remove. How stuck and shrunken I'd let it become. How
much I'd let go of hopes for my health and discovery. Poo on that.
I got some advice via a lawyer pal who asked an employment specialist attorney she's friends with,
who told her it's very very unlikely I can be denied unemployment regardless of having been "written up"
because the reason Nboss STATED was "restructuring." And that's a reason one does qualify. Whew.
That means I can turn down his severance pay along with the "don't ever say anything negative" clause.
Which is worth a slight short-term financial loss because it means he has no power over me again, ever.
(The idea of going into the future looking over my shoulder at his vindictive iNtent would be awful...)
Amazing to think of him receding from my mind and my life. And kind of ghastly to realize how toxic it was.
love
Hops
Hops, I'm rootin' for ya! Reading through your thread I think the amazing thing has already happened - you shed that horrible nasty man and I think that's the bit that's worth its weight in gold anyway. I'm so glad you can tell him to stick his money as well - being able to say no is an amazingly empowering thing. Being so desperate that you can't is an awful position to be in but having enough that you can do what you need to without someone else having power - truly priceless ;) xx
-
Getting away helps me see my life at a remove. How stuck and shrunken I'd let it become. How
much I'd let go of hopes for my health and discovery. Poo on that.
Funny how we can let the routine of our lives and the requirements to live just push out the idea that there is always active, dynamic life, all around us, just waiting to be danced with - either for the first time, or again - as someone aptly reminded me. LOL ;)
I've always liked a change of "scenery" for being able to see what I let myself become. Remember Sunday drives? The whole family would just go galavanting. Maybe take a picnic somewhere; go fishing; or visiting - or just a round trip, with a few stops for food and potty breaks. That seems like a good thing to repopularize.
-
Whoo hoo! Good news about collecting unemployment benefits is a relief.
Not having to sign anything Nboss writes is absolutely priceless.
He'd jerk you around for years through the courts.... it's what he is. He couldn't help himself, IME.
Be confident, Hops. Don't touch your face.... travel and stress make it too easy to get sick. Use hand sanitizer often.
Stay hydrated too.
Lighter
-
Thank you SO much, guys! I can't tell you how it feels to log in here after an endurance test like this and hear your encouraging thoughts, and knowing you cared enough to sit down and type those words. I am truly grateful. My saga ain't over but if you can bear it, I'll keep on sharing the steps. Here's my trip report:
I've got an initial assignment freelancing, but I think it might lead to a larger position. He doesn't think "creativity has a home" which means, with some travel, I probably wouldn't have to move.
If I negotiated a FT large-enough salary (pie in $ky) I'd even consider moving anyway for a couple years. Live frugally (it's in coastal foothills but rent is high) and hope a friend or two would come for vacations. Also negotiate regular home periods.
I'd be much happier consulting from where I live now though, and think that'd be fine with him. Though less secure than FT salary.
Anyway, no telling. But I can do what he's thinking about and he is honest. And maybe because he's older than I am, he didn't hit me with ageism. Or sexism. (The opposite of the monster Nboss tried to depict him as...projection much? This man appears passionate about integrity and the difference is, doesn't seem to be pretending.)
My take was that I have skills he needs and he realized it. He pulled in key people to our afternoon mtg and said "This is a gap in our company and she has the knowledge to fill it." He didn't commit to a big huge position and I'd have to prove myself on this first project...but if I do, I think there could be something real there.
One of the most significant things is that at half his company's size, my old company has twice the dealers. And I started that, set the tone and created the template.
Promising start anyway. Thanks for listening to the blow by blow--more than you know!
Love and gotta get up at 415AM (mooooooooaaaaannnnn) for my flight...
Hops
-
Thank you SO much, guys! I can't tell you how it feels to log in here after an endurance test like this and hear your encouraging thoughts, and knowing you cared enough to sit down and type those words. I am truly grateful. My saga ain't over but if you can bear it, I'll keep on sharing the steps. Here's my trip report:
I've got an initial assignment freelancing, but I think it might lead to a larger position. He doesn't think "creativity has a home" which means, with some travel, I probably wouldn't have to move.
If I negotiated a FT large-enough salary (pie in $ky) I'd even consider moving anyway for a couple years. Live frugally (it's in coastal foothills but rent is high) and hope a friend or two would come for vacations. Also negotiate regular home periods.
I'd be much happier consulting from where I live now though, and think that'd be fine with him. Though less secure than FT salary.
Anyway, no telling. But I can do what he's thinking about and he is honest. And maybe because he's older than I am, he didn't hit me with ageism. Or sexism. (The opposite of the monster Nboss tried to depict him as...projection much? This man appears passionate about integrity and the difference is, doesn't seem to be pretending.)
My take was that I have skills he needs and he realized it. He pulled in key people to our afternoon mtg and said "This is a gap in our company and she has the knowledge to fill it." He didn't commit to a big huge position and I'd have to prove myself on this first project...but if I do, I think there could be something real there.
One of the most significant things is that at half his company's size, my old company has twice the dealers. And I started that, set the tone and created the template.
Promising start anyway. Thanks for listening to the blow by blow--more than you know!
Love and gotta get up at 415AM (mooooooooaaaaannnnn) for my flight...
Hops
Hops I am so, so happy to read this, and so glad that you have managed to not only get that hideous boss out of your life but you've manifested this other chap who sees you for the wonderful person that you are and appreciates and acknowledges your skills and experience. What a feeling it will be to deal with a proper grown up who doesn't have some bizarre, twisted agenda going on. Looking forward to reading more about this :) xx
-
That sounds really, really, really good Hops.
No instantaneous, huge change to your life or location. A chance to "get to know you" and shake the residual yuck from nboss off - while discovering the joys of working with sane people. Kinda sounds perfect, to be honest.
Those cross-country flights are awful though. Just being in that pressurized environment for so long bothers me - to say nothing of lack of boundaries & personal space, with all those people. I don't envy you that. But if it doesn't bother you, then I'd say you landed on all four feet in a bed of daisies. Can't ask for better.
THAT is the best revenge, after all. ;)
-
whew WHAT A RELIEF. You did it. Even though you were scared you friggin well climbed that mountain. Inspiration for us all. Things fell into place in a pretty smooth way. Boss not fixated on why you left but more on how you can be of service to his company.
I worked for seven years in a place where the boss micromanaged me into a faded version of myself that was on the brink of disappearing. One day, after going to the doctor and hearing that my blood pressure was dangerously high and he said wisely Consider this your last day in the job, I left. I thought that was impossible. I didn't care about employment insurance or anything. Pretty impulsive. Next day I was not so confident. My friend told me to get medical unemployment benefits, which I had not considered. I went there and told them about how my boss had basically humiliated me and treated me with less than respect. I was so surprised to hear that they hear that story often enough to know that it is real and I got medical employment benefits for stress. I went to the doctor and he confirmed that I was stressed and there it was.
I realized that I had forgotten all about that. Sometimes life has to just shake you like a ragdoll to get one to move along.
So I went from being a rehab counsellor in a program for people with severe disabilities to......... looking for jobs in the New Hebrides. While checking in the Toronto paper, I came across a job in Tofino working with children with severe disabilities. The jobs had commonalities but were very different. And I relocated to Tofino, a little fishing town, from a big city, Victoria. I think I had the most interesting teaching job imaginable. I got to go to work in a speedboat, work with Native people, work counseling little kids.
My point after all that is that it is impossible to control what comes next. You have prepared the field with all your experience and skills and now you have gotten on the fast train to change. SOOOOOOOOO brave of you. But also wise. I often thought that you might be able to tough it out in the old job but your health might go. Typing those honest statements about your boss was unconsciously reaching for a life preserver. That is just what I think.
I read somewhere that if an employee sues their boss for wrongful dismissal, they rarely lose. I had not realized that. Have a snit fit or telling your boss off is not reasonable grounds for dismissal. Employee and employer having a snit fit doesn't mean he gets to throw you out on the street. Just does not make sense. Only your high standards of human communication have made you think it was such a catastrophe. As for the boss, what a weinee for terminating a good employee. He could have said,|Madame, I am curious why such a person as yourself would think glorious me is such a .............. But to fire you, boy that was dramatic and impulsive.
I think you have some leverage or whatever in the wrongful dismissal department and right now you feel a bit worthless and are in a bit of a shame spriral about getting fired. However, old bossie boy doesn't get to fire someone because he is offended. That is ridiculous.
Yuck, I don't want to spend time in HIS head. Glad you won't have to either.
You are wonderful.
Lots of love,
Sea storm
-
Oh Hops! You made my day. I'm so happy for you. What a nice (all around) platform from which to launch!
I like it that you sensed integrity in the new CEO. That's everything!
I hope you get a good rest before the next test comes along and CONGRATULATIONS, HORNS TOOTIN, AND LOTS OF CONFETTI!
tt
-
Yooooooooou Hooooooo
Are you there? Hiding away under a blanket, watching hours of CSI, eating copious bowls of ice cream????? You have been through a lot!!!
Standing by,
Sea
-
Sounds good, Hoppy:
I like the idea of sizing each other up on this first project.
You'll give him stellar information while promising to do the same on other projects.
He'll see the value, and things will go from there.
You might consider renting your house out furnished for a bit if it becomes necessary to move for any length of time.
Short term furnished rentals are BIG where I live.
Well done,
Light
-
Thanks, all.
I kind of crashed for a day to recover from the trip and today got up my nerve to write him a followup.
Next challenge, for me, is to negotiate smartly and well. Not being so greedy I blow any opportunity away, but not doing the chronic under-valuing of myself that I've done most of my career. Scary stuff but I can do this too!
Meanwhile I'm happy to be home, cuddling up with my pooch and catching a movie with a friend.
Head spinning but still hopeful,
Hops
-
Thanks, all.
I kind of crashed for a day to recover from the trip and today got up my nerve to write him a followup.
Next challenge, for me, is to negotiate smartly and well. Not being so greedy I blow any opportunity away, but not doing the chronic under-valuing of myself that I've done most of my career. Scary stuff but I can do this too!
Meanwhile I'm happy to be home, cuddling up with my pooch and catching a movie with a friend.
Head spinning but still hopeful,
Hops
I am really enjoying reading this thread, Hops, it makes me feel so happy to read that, it seems to me, the Universe has decided to blow some good things in your direction. And so amazing to read that you are handling all of this so well. I am looking forward to reading more :) x
-
:) I'm so slow. I missed the part about you losing your job in the first place, I didn't know it had happened. ? Anyways I don'tunderstand how people used to work for the same company for decades and get a pension out of it, that never happens anymore. I wonder if people hated their jobs just as much then or if everybody just treated each other because constant "restructuring" wasn't the norm.
Good luck with whatever happens.
-
Thanks, Tupp and Boat.
The post-trip high has kind of slowed, and I have no certainty I'll really get a job with them.
Slowly, the reality of the situation is sinking in. Though I should be able to find SOMETHING, I'm out of savings in a couple months and that could jeopardize keeping my house.
I'm a little scared and hid and escaped for a week, but now it's time for me to focus and job hunt consistently every day. If the other company does come through (owner says he's talking to his board of directors about me at the end of this week but he's not sure they'll agree to hiring me) that's great, but meanwhile, it's scary to have nothing and not know when I'll have a regular paycheck again. Or, if it'll be enough to cover my mortgage.
I think I'll manage. I'm just abruptly in a whole new stage of life that I wasn't prepared for. My psyche certainly needed me to be out of the old job and Nboss' orbit, but my LIFE needed an income! I did have, thanks to Financial Peace University (that Dave Ramsey personal finance class) an emergency fund. Not a big one, about 3 months' expenses, but better than nothing.
Thanks for the good wishes. On balance I'm still hopeful and we'll see. Long-term unemployment is no joke. I can do some freelance writing, I'm pretty sure. It's just that at 65 it's going to be harder to convince a company to give me a FT position. I may be scrambling fairly desperately for as long as I can work.
:(
Hops
-
Hi Hops,
I'm so sorry for what you are going through. If you were here, and I had a company, I would hire you in a second...
Richard
-
Thanks, Doc G...
And oh, I wish.
A boss like YOU? That would be extraordinarily wonderful.
Thanks for the comfort and support.
And for this blessed place.
love
Hops
-
:(
Well we don't know the results of the interview yet. You probably have better than a 50/50 chance.
It sure seems like they jumped quickly on the chance of setting up the interview with you which is usually a good sign. Also for them to know you would travel that far I think indicates both sides are pretty serious.
-
::Sending you courage and prayers, Hops::
I bet you have an amazing resume, and it's time to get it out in the world, IMo.
Maybe a temp agency is the way to a full time position with a company you'd like to work for?
I just know you'll find a better situation than you were enduring with exNboss.
Lighter
-
Hops, I'm sure all is going to be well.
What you're feeling is what I call "the horror of the situation" - and it's good to acknowledge it's reality, IMO. But it truly can't dominate how you feel and what you do, to begin moving through this wonderful opportunity you now have. This is a GIFT, and yet, you've most definitely earned it.
There are some similarities down here -- and some of the same trepidation, too. But it's going to be OK; everything's going to be alright.
;)
-
Thank you so much, Lighter and Skep.
I just got a phone call from Nboss and my blood ran cold. I said I preferred not to speak to him but my former other colleague is welcome to contact me any time. He said, "okay" and I hung up. I emailed former colleague and told him that.
I can't imagine any reason Nboss would call except to pressure or bribe me to do what he wants. I have not signed his piddling and offensive severance offer (it includes me renouncing unemployment and promising never to speak negatively about the company or "any of its officers"). To me it's dirty money and would mean that I would forever be looking over my shoulder if I try to get work in any other company in the industry. He is so vicious that if he ever saw a statement on another company's website that he could even pretend originated with me, he'd sue me as a hobby. (I never signed any employment contract, non-disclosure or non-compete agreement when I was hired. They adopted the practice with new employees later.)
I filed my unemployment claim the other day. It's about 2/3 of his little offer, over time, in maximum. But I'd rather use that to survive for a couple months more, than take another filthy penny from him.
But it disturbs me that as an organism, I reacted with fear to the sound of his voice. (Today is a few days past the deadline to sign the agreement. That's probably the reason he called. Shudder.)
love
Hops
-
AND Boat.
I so hope you're right!
Last thing the other man told me was that he'd be talking to his Board about me end of week.
So it's Saturday.
I sure hope he follows up soon.
Angst,
Hops
-
Thank you so much, Lighter and Skep.
I just got a phone call from Nboss and my blood ran cold. I said I preferred not to speak to him but my former other colleague is welcome to contact me any time. He said, "okay" and I hung up. I emailed former colleague and told him that.
I can't imagine any reason Nboss would call except to pressure or bribe me to do what he wants. I have not signed his piddling and offensive severance offer (it includes me renouncing unemployment and promising never to speak negatively about the company or "any of its officers"). To me it's dirty money and would mean that I would forever be looking over my shoulder if I try to get work in any other company in the industry. He is so vicious that if he ever saw a statement on another company's website that he could even pretend originated with me, he'd sue me as a hobby. (I never signed any employment contract, non-disclosure or non-compete agreement when I was hired. They adopted the practice with new employees later.)
I filed my unemployment claim the other day. It's about 2/3 of his little offer, over time, in maximum. But I'd rather use that to survive for a couple months more, than take another filthy penny from him.
But it disturbs me that as an organism, I reacted with fear to the sound of his voice. (Today is a few days past the deadline to sign the agreement. That's probably the reason he called. Shudder.)
love
Hops
I think you're absolutely right not to sign anything he wants you to Hops, or to have any sort of further contact with him. Feeling scared of someone is horrible but you handled it beautifully, as you always do. Someone told me once to remember that fear is a good thing; it's your internal system screaming "Run for your life!" and getting you out of a dangerous situation. I know it stops being helpful if it interfers with your day to day life but I think you've got good reason to find him scary, to be honest, he sounded like a complete nightmare and it might be that you being free of him means your internal system is breathing a sigh of relief and letting out some feelings that you've had to just manage in order to be able to cope with working for the idiot.
Hopefully you will never have cause to have to hear his voice again; he's got no hold over you now (and I bet he knows that!). Sending you all things positive and lovely :) xx
-
Thank you, Tupp.
That makes so much sense.
I'm accustomed to writing off my fears as mere neurosis (as they are about paperwork, the other thread).
But you're right. In this instance feeling long pent-up fear makes perfect sense.
A severe, maybe even sociopathic, narcissist with unlimited money and a penchant for punishment...
why wouldn't a sane person step back?
Whew.
You're right again, that I held back the fear so many years.
In every way except financial I feel so much better. Coming back to life.
Love
Hops
-
Thank you, Tupp.
That makes so much sense.
I'm accustomed to writing off my fears as mere neurosis (as they are about paperwork, the other thread).
But you're right. In this instance feeling long pent-up fear makes perfect sense.
A severe, maybe even sociopathic, narcissist with unlimited money and a penchant for punishment...
why wouldn't a sane person step back?
Whew.
You're right again, that I held back the fear so many years.
In every way except financial I feel so much better. Coming back to life.
Love
Hops
I am so glad you are coming back to life! Financial stuff is scary. Having been through very lean periods myself I live pretty frugally and save as much as I can. It isn't a fortune but it's the difference between being able to manage a disaster and being utterly without support, which is tough. When we move (yay!) my reserve fund will be depleted and I know I'll feel anxious about that until it starts to build up a little again. I know how 'up' on these sort of matters you are so I'm sure you've put yourself in the best position possible and that 'something' will see you through, hopefully with a spring in your step! But I know I find those 'I don't know how this will pan out' periods difficult, I am rooting for you! And sending "Back off, sunbeam" vibes to ex Boss who I think you are right to be afraid of as he's always seemed like a thoroughly unpleasant character. I was thinking that your situation with him, the way you spoke to him in that final meeting, might have given some of the less assertive employees a bit of courage to start looking for something else or to look after themselves a bit better - I wouldn't be suprised to find other people felt the way you did but didn't feel able to talk about it. You might just have started a small scale revolution and not know about it yet :) xx
-
I already talked to one colleague who would escape with me to the other company if we could get offers!
Pessimism growing on that one, though. I think I need to focus locally and really rev it up next week.
For now, small miracle: turns out my neighbor was willing to be hired for paperwork help and in two hours
we blasted through an embarrassing pile. Still have to finish filing it all tomorrow morning, and tomorrow
afternoon another person is coming to work with me on getting a clear picture of where I stand, start
creating a budget and contingency plans.
It's unsettling not knowing whether I'll have an income in time to avoid dipping into retirement fund,
tiny as it is, to cover my house payments. That's the biggest worry.
I needed help. Asked around for it over and over again (whom could I hire) and suddenly, here it is.
Person tomorrow is a little prickly but we'll see how it goes. We've gotten along well in the past.
Thanks much for the encouragement, Tupp.
love
Hops
-
I already talked to one colleague who would escape with me to the other company if we could get offers!
Pessimism growing on that one, though. I think I need to focus locally and really rev it up next week.
For now, small miracle: turns out my neighbor was willing to be hired for paperwork help and in two hours
we blasted through an embarrassing pile. Still have to finish filing it all tomorrow morning, and tomorrow
afternoon another person is coming to work with me on getting a clear picture of where I stand, start
creating a budget and contingency plans.
It's unsettling not knowing whether I'll have an income in time to avoid dipping into retirement fund,
tiny as it is, to cover my house payments. That's the biggest worry.
I needed help. Asked around for it over and over again (whom could I hire) and suddenly, here it is.
Person tomorrow is a little prickly but we'll see how it goes. We've gotten along well in the past.
Thanks much for the encouragement, Tupp.
love
Hops
You're most welcome and just a thought (and bear in mind I have very little knowledge about financial matters and even less about how they differ between here and the States but ................), if you haven't already, it might be worth checking whether your loan for your house has any kind of employment protection plan attached to it to cover payments if you lose your job? There's been a huge thing in the UK over the last few years with people finding out they'd taken out insurances they didn't know anything about; it just occured to me if the same thing has happened in the States it might be a blessing in your case :) Glad people are being helpful; everything's easier to do if someone is giving you a hand. And revving up local job hunts is bound to be a good idea; better to have three job offers to choose from :) Hope you got through the filing and that things are feeling a bit more organised xx
-
I'm awaiting her now. Hiding on the internet instead of doing sensible PRE-organization.
The filing is kind of like "clearing space on a big table" to do the real work, which is grappling
with the realities of numbers and getting a plan. I think it's a very big project. It is for me
anyway...I feel the muscles tensing all over.
But I have HELP (not cheap, but more important than anything else) and that's huge.
No alas, no job-loss protection with my mortgage. If I have to, I'll bite into retirement
fund (huge interest penalties if you do that) to pay it off. But I'm not there yet; I may
still find enough work of some sort to keep it all going. Once I hit 70 (4 years plus a
few months) I'll breathe a sigh of relief. It won't be comfy, but it'll be survivable, with
an additional part-time job.
Gotta go pretend I was preparing...
hugs
Hops
-
My moods are all OVER the place. Churning anxiety during the day, then I do something to move a step forward and perk up some, then people come and I really cheer up.
I'd like to skip the churning anxiety tomorrow! It's good that I'm not staying home alone and have a busy day, seeing several people. That also means I won't be hammering away at resume, contacts, all that. Which is pretty urgent.
But I did find out that with unemployment (and no emergencies), I will be covered for six months.
After that, I'd better have a job. Long-term unemployment really does happen, especially at my age. No word from the other company. Feels like that fantasy is slipping away, but I'm still glad I had the trip and validating meetings.
I'M TRYING TO GET MY MIND OFF THAT.
Nighty night,
Hops
-
My moods are all OVER the place. Churning anxiety during the day, then I do something to move a step forward and perk up some, then people come and I really cheer up.
I'd like to skip the churning anxiety tomorrow! It's good that I'm not staying home alone and have a busy day, seeing several people. That also means I won't be hammering away at resume, contacts, all that. Which is pretty urgent.
But I did find out that with unemployment (and no emergencies), I will be covered for six months.
After that, I'd better have a job. Long-term unemployment really does happen, especially at my age. No word from the other company. Feels like that fantasy is slipping away, but I'm still glad I had the trip and validating meetings.
I'M TRYING TO GET MY MIND OFF THAT.
Nighty night,
Hops
Six months breathing space is good, Hops, and that work will come, maybe in a slightly different form to what you're used to? Perhaps doors to other directions will unfold. A friend of mine works as a sort of freelance PA; she tends to work for people from home on various projects, so the sort of things where they don't do enough work to hire a PA permanently but every now and again they take on a job where that's necessary and that's where she steps in. Not suggesting you become a PA, but that came out of a similar situation she found herself in and it sort of grew and mushroomed by itself. I'm keeping everything crossed for you.
Anxiety is horrible and I wish I knew a way to wave a wand and make it vanish but all I can say is that it will pass and hopefully by the time you've seen all those various people tomorrow you'll be feeling a bit more grounded again xx
-
Well Hops, about the west coast opportunity...
IIRC, you said he'd present his idea and your credentials to the board the end of last week. Depending on how risk-averse (which is biz-speak for anxiety) the board is, they may have wanted some time to think about things. It's not uncommon for opportunities like this to take a month or two to happen. To iron out the details, double-triple-check assumptions and expectations; to negotiate a mutually agreeable set of expectations and parameters. Sounds like it is a new position in their organization, and well - there are existing persons there getting the job done, perhaps in addition to their regular responsibilities. Even if you'd lighten their load and make their overall process stronger - people could have some negative feelings about that situation. So, the boss will have to plan out just how to handle that - and present the information to them, too - so people don't feel like they've done something wrong, or not up to snuff... you get the picture.
Meanwhile, the foremost thing in your current life shakeup is to find solid ground; shelter; security. Understandable, too. I would wait until the end of this week, torturous as that may be, before contacting him for an update. And yes, you should stay busy. Sounds like you have absolutely the best mix of activities in mind for your overall well-being.
I sympathize with not wanting to be in an extended state of limbo, though. Going through my own right now; it's opening old cans of worms -- some exhaustively picked over for nutritious bits; and something I couldn't focus on during the last navel-gazing mission, but is just as important. Hang in there, sweetie. I might be around more often, as I sort through this new-old thing - I always need feedback & other people's perspectives - and I'm shifting into a new phase of the grief process, too. Whee; multitasking. LOL....
-
Six months breathing space.....
I felt my anxiety for you click down a couple notches just reading that, and my anxiety sort of rides alongside yours. I feel excited for you, then tense, and on it goes with your ride.
All will be well Hops. I know it will.
Having that space means means you can move forward without urgency. Choose mindfully, and with prupose.
Yes.
Lighter
-
Tupp, you are a pal. I truly appreciate how you tune in to the emotion that's going on and just offer kindness and encouragement. How could anyone not value you? (Start with recognizing yourself, how good you truly are. Not attached to your performance, either.)
Thank you for slowing me down, PR...reminding me to realize I don't know what's happening out there and giving it a week is wise and calm (well, fake calm, but that'll do). Really really helpful to have you visualizing things in such a realistic way. It helps me to remind myself of how glad I made that trip regardless of the outcome. It was so validating it was worth the effort even if no work comes from it. Every interview is good practice, just as every first date is...that's my motto!
And Lighter, thank you so much for caring, and reminding me to breathe and be mindful and purposeful. That's exactly the antidote to spinning and panicking. You have a lot of discipline and that inspires me. I'll never be that steady but I can still move forward. Thank you.
love y'all,
Hops
-
I can relate to panic, Hops. Going through enough of it myself lately.
-
I know. Oy.
I hate fear.
I'm gonna go have a drink.
hugs
Hops
-
Sometimes a drink is therapeutic. :)
-
Well, the Big Fantasy Job (from the trip across the country) didn't pan out.
He was nice about it and there's a remote possibility he'll return to ask for my services later in the year, but I'm not expecting it.
He may have a small freelance job for me pretty soon, which'll be nice if it happens. They decided they needed to invest in a different area, and it's one they do need to attend to, so I understand.
I just need to move on, move ahead, and focus locally. Which would be a lot less stressful anyway.
I am still SO glad I had that trip, those discussions, and his validation (which I believe was sincere) at THAT time. It did me a world of good and got me through the worst of the shock period. AND, I got to see a whole new chunk of the country that was fascinating and gorgeous. No regrets at all.
Tomorrow I am going to hustle, finish my resume, and get some applications in. (I have to do that consistently in order to receive unemployment.)
Night,
Hops
-
Well, the Big Fantasy Job (from the trip across the country) didn't pan out.
He was nice about it and there's a remote possibility he'll return to ask for my services later in the year, but I'm not expecting it.
He may have a small freelance job for me pretty soon, which'll be nice if it happens. They decided they needed to invest in a different area, and it's one they do need to attend to, so I understand.
I just need to move on, move ahead, and focus locally. Which would be a lot less stressful anyway.
I am still SO glad I had that trip, those discussions, and his validation (which I believe was sincere) at THAT time. It did me a world of good and got me through the worst of the shock period. AND, I got to see a whole new chunk of the country that was fascinating and gorgeous. No regrets at all.
Tomorrow I am going to hustle, finish my resume, and get some applications in. (I have to do that consistently in order to receive unemployment.)
Night,
Hops
I'm glad you know, Hops, even though it wasn't the news you were expecting, but I've always found it difficult to put effort into something if I'm waiting (hoping) for something else to pan out so you can put your whole energy into something local now and I'm keeping my fingers crossed something enjoyable comes up for you. And glad you did the trip and got that bit of adventure under your belt - you've had scary situations to cope with recently and you've sailed through all of them, quivering inside, I know, but looking like Boudicca on the outside. Onwards and upwards, I'm rooting for ya! xx
-
OK, so that interaction had a purpose that wasn't exactly a guarantee of employment, in the future. Still a win, in Hops column. I have to tell you, what I'm hearing from people trying to find work these days, is that most of the time you can interview - even twice - and then hear absolutely nothing, if for some reason they selected someone else or didn't hire for that position at all.
It's a measure of how much respect that man had for your abilities, that he did promptly let you know the outcome of their meeting. And maybe he even likes you on a personal level??? Maybe?? ;)
With your resume, I'd be tempted to use respect from the employer as the litmus test for whether that situation would work for you. In this day & age, too many are seeking any means toward an end (ye olde bottom line) and it just ain't fittin' - to quote Mammy in Gone with the Wind. They treat human beings as "resources" or "assets" -- and not people. Hence, my misgivings when "personnel" became "human resources". The language matters more than anyone is acknowledging. And euphemisms, and twisting definitions, and all that have proceeded as a way to white wash plain old bad intentions. It's epidemic in business.
-
OK.
Now you know, Hops.
The path isn't going left....
it's going right.
::nod::
You're away from N boss, and will certainly find your way.
I wish wish wish I had something for you to work on before you get too busy.
Lighter
-
:) Well you certainly got your feet wet in the job searching arena in a big way by going to that interview. I find that interviews are a reminder that it's a big world out there. We all need that reminder sometimes I think (I know I do need that reminder). Good luck Hops. I hope you find something that suits you and is more nurturing or at least has better personalities than the last Narcissistic boss guy. You are so likable, I'm sure it's just a matter of time, cast the net. Throw the jerk fishes back.
I know personal budget and economy forces us to do stuff. Hopefully something good will come out of all of this though.
-
Thanks, everybody.
Just got to keep plugging away day by day, being sure I sent in at least one application a day, and forge ahead.
I can't afford to think about how much UNemployment there is, just keep my focus on my upcoming EMploy.
And to remember that compared to many people in the world, most even, I am an incredibly fortunate person.
Que sera, sera.
xo
Hops
-
Hi folks,
I'm kind of staggering through the weekly job applications to qualify for unemployment payments. I find it so daunting I can't explain it. Partly the sheer exhaustion of filling out form after form, not having a home printer, the complexity of the online applications and the very very very detailed requirements that make one application "count" and another not. It's like my paperwork phobia just got put on steroids.
I have an urgent need to get organized and without the structure of a daily job (even the one I loathed), my ADD is rioting and I am struggling to function. I'll get a second wind, but wanted to express that here.
On the better-news front (I hope), I did see an employment attorney and he has sent a "counter offer" to Nboss. If Nboss would like me to go away and never say anything publically negative about him or the company, he should agree. It was a bit more than double what he offered (a little over 6 months' salary) and the attorney mentioned "considering the value of her claims" we felt it was appropriate. Those "claims", he stated as, "She was integral to the growth and success of the company for eight years, and at the same time was subjected to unequal pay in comparison to comparable male coworkers, and was subjected to bullying and intimidation." Seeing those words from an "authority figure" was balm. (Reminded me of when the judge stopped Nbrother in his tracks.)
None of this means that I will wind up with: 1) one cent, 2) his initial piddling offer, or 3) anything else.
But it did feel good to act in my own behalf, even though the outcome could stink. Nboss is vindictive and loathes me passionately now. On the other hand, I shared with the attorney a very long email from the CEO (private to me) which acknowledged in detail the bullying I'd been subjected to and how Nboss abetted it and made it worse, and how he didn't know how I'd stood it. I feel sorry for CEO's naivete in writing me that, but given that he dropped me like a hot potato, I think he will have to cope with the fact that I have that in my quiver.
Leaves him in an awful position of not wanting Nboss to know that HE (CEO) was once on my side...but I'm afraid that's the situation he's in. If he is able to prevail over Nboss's venom and irrationality, hopefully they'll come back with a better counter. When I first lost the job I thought I wouldn't want a penny of Nboss' filthy money, but now I know I really can't afford to turn up my nose at it.
The last possibility is that Nboss would refuse to offer me a dime in severance but at the same time "vigorously fight" (his quote) my unemployment benefits. He believes that because he "wrote me up" (an orchestrated depiction of me as "not getting along with people" which really meant his son) -- I don't qualify. But a labor attorney told my other attorney friend that if they state "restructuring" in a termination interview (which he did and CEO is my witness)...then I do qualify. It's not about being "liked" but about the legal rights. We'll see.
Anyway, worst case is I get no severance and Nboss fights my unemployment, but I can also have an attorney present at the hearing, and I think I'd prevail.
Ugh to all of it. Just wanted to vent.
love
Hops
-
I echo your "ugh", Hops. Hooray to freedom from that man but the reality of paperwork, form filling and other tedious but somehow unavoidable chores does take the edge off things a bit. I'm very glad things with your employment attorney sound positive, though, and it is always nice when someone 'official' validates your experience, as you say.
Re paperwork and form filling, something that helps me with those mountains is to break things down into fifteen minute chunks. That always seems easier to me to manage and I usually find once I get going I can get through it with less effort that I thought it would take. I don't know much about ADD, though, so don't know if that would affect any kind of particular approach?
The thing I did think of as I read your post (and feel free to ignore it completely if it sounds daft) is a meditation I've been doing about dealing with anxiety. I have found it so helpful I can't tell you, very painful at first, letting out a lot of old hurt and anger, but I'm feeling some quite profound changes from it now and am trying to do it everyday. It's on YouTube, read by someone called Jason Stephenson and it's called 'a Guided Meditation for Anxiety - The Magic Book' (I just put in meditation for anxiety and it was on a whole list that came up). I'm finding it really helpful and it's about fifteen minutes long which I find is enough for me.
Other than that - can only say I'm thinking of you and hoping that this hideousness is rewarded by a good job with nice people sooner rather than later xx
-
Wow Hops... sounds like the lawyer thinks there's a case here. I don't know what to tell you or what we should hope for, for you, from that. It's been my (limited) experience, that this method of coping with malevolent azzholes most of the time, simply continues the agony of having to deal with them and their universe. (see: Lighter's ongoing encounters). It takes a lot of strength, endurance, and a surety of oneself... a confidence... to see something like that through. Sometimes (maybe not in this situation) the possible benefit isn't worth the agony. It was certainly worth it, taking on your Nbrother. I simply don't know.
My method has usually consisted of fleeing as completely as I can, and trying as much as possible to land on my feet. That hasn't always worked out the way I planned it either.
But the bit that I can really relate to, is the ADD problem and well, the paperwork. I'm pretty well buried in paperwork too. And it would appear that this one corporate entity is going to be a thorn in my side. Right now, I'm just trying to breathe my way through that one and not make it worse by getting upset that according to them, I'm not following their rules... but, of course, they're not even telling me their rules... until AFTER I've done what I think is best. Grrrrrrrrrr. Going to delegate that one, I think.
On a more personal, experiential level:
Your daily routine... the touchstones of each day have changed as much as mine have. And in both cases, they were externally determined - be at work at such & such a time, feed Mike every 3 hours, that kind of thing. When the external expectation is removed - it's just fine at first. But later on, the vacumn begins to be noticeable and well... what should, or does, a person want to fill it with? Some of us kind of flail our way through that; others know just what they want; and the rest of us are blindfolded, trying to fumble our way through the discovery process to figure out what works for us. Social interaction of some sort helps us see the possibilities, too. I think there just might be time in your (and my) exploration process for new external "controls" on the minutes in our lives... to at least check out free exercise classes or book clubs or something.
-
Thanks mucho, Amber.
You intuit exactly right that I'm not seeking out another drawn-out legal case. Even if I could prevail I definitely do not relish or even want to sue the company, to go backward in time to prove bullying or emotional damage or any of that. The CEO's email acknowledging (affirming in detail) that he knew the bullying was real, may be helpful as his own behind-the-scenes pressure to persuade Nboss (if he even can) to offer a better severance. But I don't know and don't even need to know. Nboss's deadline to respond to the counter offer is the 8th, so all I need to do is wait and see. I will cope with whatever happens, from zip (no severance at all) to a modest compromise, to pie in sky.
For now, just keeping my head down and applying for things, and submitting the job app reports to unemployment each Sunday. The organizing piece you're also so attuned to is the challenge.
Got going earlier today, house tidied, took a long walk, saw a friend, had a coffee date, drafted a job letter, ate well. That in itself made this a good day.
I remain awed about the herculean purging/sorting/re-evaluating and recovering job you're doing day by day, all while grieving. Awed is not an understatement.
So hope the getaway did you good, offer freshness amid the poignant driving alone. And that friend and family filled some of the hollow, aching places and gave you hope.
Thanks for reaching out to understand my minor situation in the face of all you're going through.
Love to you,
Hops
-
Hi All,
I realized I had missed a couple of pages here, so I just caught up. I want to say to all the posters who gave Hops advice and support - your contributions were great - there was lots of supportive, strategic and practical advice given - I was very impressed!
And, thanks to Hops for being brave and putting her situation out there. I learned alot from the posts - so thank you!
All the best to all of you :D
-
Hello Hops:
I've been out of the loop for awhile but came across your post and can so identify with what you are going through. I am in a similar position--unemployed due to a corporate layoff---and dealing with many months of job searching. Please remember that none of this is easy. It is hard, in fact. Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason as to why you are not considered for a job. Other times, the interview process is just difficult due to bad behavior from the company's hiring team. And, overall, the job market can be very challenging----whatever your field or age. So, just know you are doing all that you can and doing the best you can. Staying motivated can be difficult, especially when experiencing a lot of rejection and the trauma of past Nboss behavior.
But, hold on to the fact that you are intelligent, more than qualified and have much to offer any company. Zero in on your accomplishments and valuable skills that you bring to a company and a position. And remember that if you are not called in for an interview or offered a job, chances are that it has nothing to do with you personally. During my continued job search, i have found that many times companies pull the jobs or lose funding for jobs (and fail to let you know), or prefer to hire from within (advertising externally is just a formality) or they are seeking super-specific experience.
There is a job out there for you. But it may take time. I am still searching and i am feeling a bit desperate myself as my insurance (COBRA) is due to end in May. I have been interviewing a lot.....but have been frankly amazed at the behavior of hiring companies. I am being considered for a good job currently but it is out of state and I am very reluctant to move there. But it is frustrating, depressing and demoralizing at times. it gets really frustrating when you know you have great experience and valuable skills to offer and you just need an opportunity to utilize it.
I just wanted to say hang in there, do the best you can and try to remember that none of us are, or should be, defined solely by the job we have or don't have. You have a lot to offer and in time, someone will recognize that and give you the opportunity you seek.
-
Awwww, bless you, Sun.
It is so kind of you to log back in just to give me a chuck under the chin.
I am truly touched...when meanwhile, you're going through the unemployment blues.
The good news is that despite my advanced age and new chin whiskers (I DO pull them, promise!) I've actually found a job.
You can catch up on the NEW JOB! thread I posted.
And in the meantime, how much can I encourage you to take that risk or at least consider that move? I recall you being so mired in depression and nuclear family and when I read those words...I thought HMMMM. Maybe this is exactly what she needs! Being away from All That, and having a chance to discover new earth, new chunk of planet, new humans, new patterns...just...new for you.
What do you think? Whichever way you go, it sounds like there is motion.
Hugs-
Hops
-
Big Oops! I must have missed the post where you announced the good news you found a job. Congrats! That is such wonderful news. I hope it is an opportunity that will be good for you....It is so demoralizing to job search. I have not had any luck.....the job market is not good out there. As for relocating, I am not against it completely but want to make sure the location would be a better one than I'm in now....which I admit, is in a top-tier city. The best scenario for me would be to find a good job in or around my current location but make some changes with my N family.
Since my dear dad died whom I loved very much, I realize there is and never was any semblance of family for me. My Nmom has been very clear that she has no zero interest in me except when it suits her needs. For me, the only difference is that my two siblings have partners or their own families while i'm alone. I'm also the only empath which makes it worse1 LOL....
Right now, I am focused on finding a job....but the process really hits those buttons of rejection and feeling "less than". Hopefully, like you, I can get a break.
Congrats again and I hope you can enjoy this opportunity without having to deal with an Nboss and all those other horrible circumstances you experienced. You deserve a positive work experience. :)