Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Dr. Richard Grossman on November 24, 2018, 09:07:50 PM
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Hi everyone,
Today, I published my book:
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival: Notes from the therapy underground
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1790164028
Here's the Amazon description:
What if the most powerful tool in a therapist’s "toolbox" is the relationship between client and therapist? And what if this tool is neither examined nor taught in therapist training programs? Voicelessness and Emotional Survival: Notes from the therapy underground, a short book by Dr. Richard Grossman begins by describing the author’s personal and painful experiences as a student, practitioner and patient in the traditional therapy world and then reveals what he learned from these experiences (including the importance of “character,” “subtext” and “repetition” in therapeutic relationships), how understanding and valuing the real patient-therapist relationship changed his practice of therapy and how this new approach significantly improves the lives of patients. CBS News calls this new approach "relationship therapy for one" (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-bachelorette-rachel-lindsay-and-relationship-therapy-for-one/).
About the author: Working and teaching in the outpatient psychiatry department at Massachusetts General Hospital/Harvard Medical School by the age of twenty-four, psychologist Richard Grossman found himself silenced by the dogma, politics and quest for status in the psychiatry world. He quit Massachusetts General Hospital when he was thirty and retreated to a small basement office where he spent the rest of his career discovering what human beings truly need and how he could be most helpful. As part of his work, Grossman created the popular Voicelessness and Emotional Survival website and message board--now with more than 100,000 posts--devoted to helping people free themselves from damaging relationships and find their own voice. Featured three times in New England Psychologist, Grossman’s work has also appeared in Psychology Today, Boston Magazine, The Boston Globe, and Cosmopolitan (UK).
The first half of the book is a memoir of my experience with voicelessness within the psychology/psychiatry world. The second half is what I did with this experience and how it shaped my beliefs about human beings, therapy and the world at large.
I'll appreciate all comments--both positive and negative--from those who choose to read the book. And, of course, feel free to post your comments on the Amazon website as well.
Thank you, in advance, to all people who choose to read the book! I very much appreciate it!
Richard
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Huge, heartfelt CONGRATULATIONS, Doc G!
From one of your very grateful voice-full guests.
love,
Hops
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Oh Dr G! I'm so delighted to read that you have done this and will be ordering my copy later on today :) I will warn in advance that I am a slow reader but I look forward to reading it very much. I'm so pleased you have done this and, like Hops, I am endlessly grateful for everything you do and this space that you create.
Thank you,
Tup
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Just hit the Buy Now button on Amazon!
:)
Hops
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Thank you so much, Hops and Tup! I'm very much looking forward to hearing your thoughts about it, including the personal parts.
Richard
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Hi everybody,
Here's the introduction to Voicelessness and Emotional Survival: Notes from the therapy underground
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1790164028
"Sadly, it is the rare person who can enter another person’s world at the deepest and most vulnerable level. One of the main reasons I chose to become a therapist was to learn how to do just this. Naturally, I had expected that, as a result of their training, therapists would be far better than most at entering other people’s worlds, overcoming whatever obstacles and barriers they found in the way. But, over and over again my psychology teachers, supervisors and personal therapists taught me that they were no better than others at entering another person’s world, even though they believed they were experts.
Why can’t most therapists listen accurately and with empathy? And why do all therapists believe they can? This book addresses these questions. The follow-up questions are even more important: Can therapists be re-taught to enter another person’s world at the deepest and most vulnerable level? And, if they can’t, what are current and future patients to do with this dark reality?
But another important question needs to be answered first: Is it critical that all therapists be able to “hear” and enter a patient’s world in this way? In fact, for many patients the answer is no. Many patients are satisfied with practical advice, learning ways of training their brain to respond to distress in a new and different manner, or receiving simple emotional support as they struggle with the omnipresent pain that life and living with other human beings brings. But as I have learned in my own life and by co-experiencing the lives of others, aloneness at the deepest level is often the most troublesome and hindering aspect of “being” in this world. And having another person with you—sometimes in person, but also held in the cognitive and emotional parts of memory—is one of the most important and healing parts of therapy. Because I learned this so early in my “training,” my career has been devoted to studying “voicelessness” and what can be done to help people who suffer as a result of it.
I thought it useful to begin this book with my own personal experience with voicelessness in order to illustrate how “deaf” and destructive the psychology/psychiatry/psychotherapy world—and the world in general—can be, how alone one can feel in it and why I learned to conceptualize and practice psychotherapy in a different way. More importantly, I hope my personal history provides the reader with data and evidence for the concepts I write about in the second part of this book—character, subtext and repetition—concepts that play significant roles in the thoughts, feelings and behaviors of patients and therapists alike, and human beings in general. Finally, I will talk about important issues that interfere with the “process” of finding a good therapist and the need to monitor whether or not your therapist is having a significant positive effect on your life."
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:D Congrats to you Dr. G!
Clicking order now....
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Thanks, Ales2! I'll look forward to all of your thoughts and comments particularly after you posted on your "Beware the scorned NM thread" (http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php/topic,10552.0.html):
"Worst part of therapy is there no way to appear anything less than dysfunctional or feel like I can maintain any self respect in the session. He asks, you answer and come off sounding like a loser. There is no other way about it.
Its what I hated with my last T and never got over it. Oh well. I feel fine when I am by myself and when I interact with other people. Who cares what therapy feels like? Its uncomfortable and unlike the gym, there is no upside to the discomfort.
Oh well. Nobody cares about that."
I hope you'll see after reading the book that I care, and I am really sorry for what you've been through with your therapists.
Richard
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Congrats, Doc G:
I'm including your book on the next Amazon order. I know you care, and am profoundly grateful that you do.
Lighter
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Thanks so much, lighter! I know you care, too. We have such an extraordinary group of "posters" on this message board--including you! I hope you'll let me know your thoughts/feelings about the book when you finish reading.
Richard
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Dear Doc G,
The more I read/learn about AEDP therapy, the more I wonder whether it might have been an amazing fit for you. If I'm right, I wish even harder that it had been available to you during your training. Imagine a career when you didn't feel like the voice crying in the wilderness!
https://aedpinstitute.org/ (https://aedpinstitute.org/)
Your book has arrived and is #1 on my reading list for 2019, although it may be January before I can dig in.
With love and gratitude,
Hops
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Hi Hops,
I spent some time on the AEDP website. While there’s some overlap, especially in the “attachment” area, I’m not sure that I would be a good fit with their approach either, and I suspect they would ultimately find me to be a “bomb dropper” as well (you’ll understand what I mean by this when you read the book). For example, in my view, it is the real relationship between patient and therapist that matters most. And, as a result, the "character" of the therapist is of utmost importance. I spend a lot of time “talking” about this in the book. But from what you write, it sounds like you know significantly more about AEDP’s approach, so you’ll know better than I whether I would “fit in” after you read my book. Let me know! I can’t wait to hear all of your thoughts and feelings!
And, as always, thank you for all the help and support you've provided to people on this board for 14 years! It's meant a lot to me...
Richard
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Dr G, I have started reading your book. I like to read books twice; once to get the gist and a second time to think more deeply about the issues raised. I've only just started the first read but something has already jumped out at me so strongly. At the end of the first paragraph on page 19 (I won't put it into context because I don't want to spoil it for anyone else) you write:
"......because he was the doctor/expert, there were never any consequences, or, for that matter, anything patients could do or say because if they did, it would simply be seen as part of their problem"
That, for me, sums up every problem I have encountered with the public sector (and, indeed, many members of the public) regarding my son. Doctors, teachers, social workers, paper pushers, even receptionists and secretaries sometimes - they don't 'get' my son. No-one spends enough time with him to really understand the way his sensory issues affect him; to know that much of what he says is learnt phrases he's memorised from films or books and he doesn't actually understand what he's saying; to know that noise that wouldn't bother them at all is like someone drilling into his brain; how much every day activities tired him and make him unwell, how much time I spend on alternatives for him - acupuncture, osteopathy, homeopathy, vitaimin supplements, daily physiotherapy and goodness only knows how much else. That for him to do well at college I have to spend the other 144 hours of the week not doing too much so he doesn't get too tired to manage the 24 hours a week he's at college. No-one else sees that, but I do, and when I try to explain it to people - so that other people can look after him in a manner that his disability dictates - I'm over-ruled, because I'm too emotional, or I won't let go, or I've got mental health problems, or I'm not seeing it from their point of view, or anyone of goodness only knows how many other things I've had thrown at me over the years. It's enormously frustrating and it's what has broken me over the years - many, many years of not being heard. So yes, thank you so much, you've summed it up so well in just that sentence.
I'm really enjoying it and so much is resonating with me already but that part really summed things up for me so I wanted to mention that quickly now :) x
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Hi Tup,
I’m so glad the book is resonating! Yes, people in the field of psychological health have done much damage over time. That was the reason I thought it important to write about my psychology professors, Massachusetts General Hospital/Harvard Medical School boss and two therapists. I’m so sorry you and your son have experienced the same. At least we’re not alone.
Thank you for commenting. It’s funny, but two people have told me that they read the book twice and appreciated it even more the second time around! So, your second “take” will also be important!
Please let me know all of your thoughts!
Richard
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Here I am! One would hope that now that both of my NPs are deceased, that the toxicity would end. Well, I find that a lifetime of having NPs (and no siblings) has left many more scars that are only beginning to surface. Amazing, somehow.... and so as I tried to wrap my head around yet another layer of healing, I remembered you, DrG, and all of this wonderfully supportive and understanding group, and so I logged in - and imagine how comforted I was to find that you are still here! Whew and Yippee. AND, that you, DrG have written a book! What a magical coincidence, I'd say! Perfect timing, every which way. Yes, I have now ordered it, and it will arrive around Jan 17th. Thanking you in advance! 8)
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Hi OnlyMe,
Welcome back! Sadly, the wounds from narcissistic parents can last a lifetime. I hope you’ll post some more such that the dear people on this message board can listen and offer you support.
And thank you for reading my book! I’ll look forward to any comments you want to share.
Richard
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Thank you for writing your book - and thank you for this message board.
And thank you for the confirmation that the wounds can last a lifetime - that in itself is a comfort (which, to anyone outside of this group, would seem like an odd thing for me to say!). :)
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Hi Dr G,
I've started reading for the second time. I left it a little while as I wanted everything to sink in a bit and to have some time to think about some of the things that came up for me as I was reading the book the first time. The introduction has brought up some questions for me and I wondered what you think?
When you talk about it being rare that another person can enter someone else's world at a deep level (first page of the introduction) which is something I agree with wholeheartedly, it got me wondering, what do you feel therapy is all about? Is it about us improving ourselves? Or relieving emotional pain in some way? Or about learning to endure more pain in life? You talk later on the same page about pain being omnipresent and that got me thinking about whether life has always been painful? I assume so; people have always lost loved ones, probably more so in days gone by when infant mortality was higher and life expectancy lower. But then I wondered if that made people more immune to pain, because it was more frequent and expected? That got me wondering whether we've tried too hard to alleviate pain and whether we should instead accept it as part of what we all go through. I was just interested in what your thoughts are as to the main point or aim of therapy (although I guess as there are different types it might depend on which type you're looking at. Nothing is ever simple :) lol ). It's very interesting to see the therapists' perspective; it made me realise that I didn't really have access to that sort of thought process before. Usually you see the 'client in the meeting room' through your own experiences and only experience the therapy from the client's side of the process so it's interesting to see the therapist's perspective (and interesting that other therapists weren't helpful to you in the past - I'd sort of always assumed that all therapists 'got' each other and it's clear that isn't the case).
Something else that I wondered about is that, when you were training and going through your own unpleasant experiences of not being heard, what was it that made you think to do it differently rather than leaving to do something else? I only ask because it really interested me that for a young trainee and newly qualified professional, to look at an entire body of work, practice, endless other professionals and so on and to say "nah. That's not right" - and then to go off and kind of re-write the rule book - is very bold! As I was reading I kept thinking about all the things I've done over the years that I've jacked in because I didn't like the way things were being done and I wondered why I hadn't done a Dr G and said "you know what - I'll do this my way". It was very brave of you to go off on your own path like that and I just wondered if you had any thoughts as to what made you do things differently rather than going off and doing something else altogether?
That's all of my questions for now! Lol, you will end up writing another book on here answering everyone's questions and thoughts :) I'm looking forward to getting on with reading it a second time :)
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Hi Tupp,
Thank you so much for reading my book x 2! Here are some answers to your thoughtful questions:
“When you talk about it being rare that another person can enter someone else's world at a deep level (first page of the introduction) which is something I agree with wholeheartedly, it got me wondering, what do you feel therapy is all about? Is it about us improving ourselves? Or relieving emotional pain in some way? Or about learning to endure more pain in life?"
Therapy should be about all of these important goals, which raised for me early on in my career the question: how can all of these goals be accomplished via one “form” of therapy. What my patients taught me was that the most powerful, thorough, and predictable way was via the “method” that I describe in the book—and the “method” that Sara Field validates from the patient side of the room in her book. (I don’t want this post to be a spoiler for those who haven’t read the books!)
“You talk later on the same page about pain being omnipresent and that got me thinking about whether life has always been painful?”
Pain is omnipresent, and yes, life has always been painful. Steve Pinker argues in his book, “The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence has Declined,” (https://smile.amazon.com/Better-Angels-Our-Nature-Violence/dp/0143122010/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1547508176&sr=8-1&keywords=steven+pinker+better+angels) that life is, in general, less painful now than it has been in the past, but, in my view, it is still quite painful and, as I write in my book, aloneness has reached epidemic proportions.
“That got me wondering whether we've tried too hard to alleviate pain and whether we should instead accept it as part of what we all go through. I was just interested in what your thoughts are as to the main point or aim of therapy.”
Certainly, there are specific ways of better accepting the pain of life—mindfulness techniques immediately come to mind. But I discovered a therapeutic relationship of the kind described in my book to be the most effective “aid” in living with the omnipresent and sometimes extraordinary pain that life has to offer.
“I was just interested in what your thoughts are as to the main point or aim of therapy (although I guess as there are different types it might depend on which type you're looking at. Nothing is ever simple lol ). “
My aims are to help people lead a more meaningful, connected, fulfilling life, and, of course, to suffer significantly less as a result. In my view, as you now know, it is a “package deal.”
“Usually you see the 'client in the meeting room' through your own experiences and only experience the therapy from the client's side of the process so it's interesting to see the therapist's perspective (and interesting that other therapists weren't helpful to you in the past - I'd sort of always assumed that all therapists 'got' each other and it's clear that isn't the case).”
Yes, the book addresses these points from a very personal perspective. I hope the painful personal aspects I write about make these points far more compelling.
“Something else that I wondered about is that, when you were training and going through your own unpleasant experiences of not being heard, what was it that made you think to do it differently rather than leaving to do something else? I only ask because it really interested me that for a young trainee and newly qualified professional, to look at an entire body of work, practice, endless other professionals and so on and to say "nah. That's not right" - and then to go off and kind of re-write the rule book - is very bold!”
I have two immediate answers to this question. First, I have a “stick to it” character—I’ve never found change particularly exciting or compelling. As I write in the book, this subtext can be found repeatedly in my character. For example, I have lived my whole adult life, since the age of 21 within 8 blocks of my current (for the past 40 years) location. But more importantly, the therapy profession fit my character “to a tee”— helping people in a significant way, personal autonomy, understanding the way people’s brains work in a scientific way and, as I write in the book, very much appreciating the arts and science blend of my “work.”
Thank you, Tupp, for all of your important questions. Let me know if any of my answers aren't clear. Also if you have more questions as you read the book for a second time, I’d be very happy to answer them!
Richard
P.S. You now know more why I always refer to myself as Richard on this message board!
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Reading your book was...
Like being pulled through deep water, from one emotional flashback to another, as you shared your experiences with your first Ts.
I'm grateful that you wrote this book, Doc.
It's validating.
It's sadly informative.
What I got, almost exclusively, about your experiences with Ts, is the practice of a very subtle form of interpersonal terrorism, as I see it. When people invalidate the sacred things we hold dear about who we are in the world. they're purposefully targeting us with the intent to inflict emotional trauma. Intention. Trauma. It's wicked, particularly when someone in a position of trust and authority does it.
Some of us won't experience validation of who we are until we enter T, unfortunately.
Most of us won't understand that we HOLD THESE SACRED beliefs about who we are, and being in relationship with someone who SEES these things, and KNOWS their truth with us, is important.
When people Do this, undermine us in this way, it's so subtle, it almost flys under the wire, bc it's hurtful, and confusing, in equal measures as I've experienced it. And it can't be inflicted by someone who lacks intimate knowledge about us, some kind of knowledge about what how we see ourselves, and what we value in ourselves.
Wow. I wish we understood this from a young age.....
Oh, to have Hops' and Doc's gift with words, I feel like I'm wasting words, and not writing what I mean to say. ::sigh::.
We'd have a better chance of understanding when people target us this way, and undermine us at the core, purposefully, iMO. Maybe. Co workers, SOs, FOO members, extended family, mates, and people we call friends DO this, and it's hard to make sense of it, IME.
Some of us won't experience validation of our inner worlds till we enter into a healthy therapeutic relationship, which is really sad. It's more than sad when the T does more harm than good, bc of their own problems.
But then, I think most mental health professionals choose this line of work bc of their own problems, and experiences with emotional struggles. This explains why so many aren't good at what they do. It also explains why some are most excellent, IMO.
You cultivate trust with your patients, Doc. That's deeply satisfying to read, and I look forward to reading page 41 on.
I had to stop at page 40, and get this off my chest before finishing. I think I can focus again. Now.
Like Tupp, I'll have to read your book again. What popped up for me was so powerfully IN MY FACE, I couldn't see beyond it.
Lighter
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Hi Lighter,
I am grateful to you for reading my tale of woe! And you’re not wasting your words at all! Here are some of my thoughts.
“What I got, almost exclusively, about your experiences with Ts, is the practice of a very subtle form of interpersonal terrorism.”
That’s a great way of describing it, at least re: my first therapist. I also wish my therapists could have taken the following article seriously:
Intellectual humility: the importance of knowing you might be wrong by Brian Resnik
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/1/4/17989224/intellectual-humility-explained-psychology-replication
But humility was not a part of either therapist’s character. And a patient was not allowed to question a therapist’s theoretical beliefs. As I write in the book, if a patient did question these beliefs, it was considered to be part of their problem.
“Most of us won't understand that we HOLD THESE SACRED beliefs about who we are, and being in relationship with someone who SEES these things, and KNOWS their truth with us, is important.
When people Do this, undermine us in this way, it's so subtle, it almost flys under the wire, bc it's hurtful, and confusing, in equal measures as I've experienced it. And it can't be inflicted by someone who lacks intimate knowledge about us, some kind of knowledge about what how we see ourselves, and what we value in ourselves.”
In therapy, it is so important for us to be heard for who we are and not have our “selves” distorted by being placed in rote conceptual and theoretical boxes. But this is what therapists are/were trained to do. And, yes, people in general are, for the most part, unable to listen and “get it” including those who supposedly know us best.
“But then, I think most mental health professionals choose this line of work bc of their own problems, and experiences with emotional struggles. This explains why so many aren't good at what they do. It also explains why some are most excellent, IMO.”
I agree. I think the need for status and control can also play a role—and is reinforced by certain theoretical views/practices. Actually, If I had to choose a kind of person to be a therapist, I would choose a veterinarian! No vet has ever tried to display status and control over my dogs. And certainly, Beau, my current Golden Retriever, would never let them do it! He’s the boss!
“You cultivate trust with your patients, Doc.”
My patients are dear to me, and we are always in this together.
Thank you, Lighter, for “letting the book in.” I so appreciate it—and if you do read it a second time, please let me know your thoughts and feelings.
Richard
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OK... I finished the book, and have a comment on prior tracts (brain pathways) "rusting away." We're talking about myelinated (fat covered) pathways. Fat makes pathways FAST. Fast makes it hard to head off old patterns, and choose/cultivate new pathways, which is the goal. So difficult. Takes time, as you say.
The body is very frugal with that fat, and will move it from the default pathway TO the rarely used pathways we're mindfully cultivating, but it takes time. It's SO SO hard, and I think it helps me to picture moving the fat, rather than picture the old pathways rusting away. In either case, they're both helpful images, IMO, and reminding myself that the process is the process, even when I fail, helps cut down on despair. Being aware, that I'm struggling, is a sign that I'm working on, and towards, that new goal. Awareness is imperative, IMO.
My uncle said a brain doc giving a talk at his office said it would be helpful if we stop all patterns in our lives... like putting a watch on the same wrist, the same way, at the same time, every day.....anything and everything, all patterns, every pattern...just STOP, and mix things up as a habit. I think it frees up fat, and makes our brains more efficient, and capable of practicing choice, rather than developing defaults as habit.... our brains get into the flow of choice, rather than the flow of setting defaults as habit. Maybe?
Moving on. Page 46, last paragraph.... Brought to mind....
"Call me Lionel."
Your view on attending your patient/client/another human being....
reminds me of the movie THE KING'S SPEECH. Lionel Logue's character explains his experience treating voiceless, shell shocked young men returning from war, and what they really needed "was a friend." So simple. That resonated powerfully for me, and I feel like you're describing this "bond" but in more technical terms... without using the word "friend."
You write, on page 52....
"Interestingly, I have found that while advice on how to deal with such parents can sometimes be helpful, it is not central to the therapeutic process. Note, again, the important difference in subtext from previous therapy models: I am another human being with a particular "character" that allows my patients to make a very significant attachment of a kind they have never experienced before. I this regard, my "character" matters far more than any advice I could possibly give."
::nodding::.
"Friend."
Page 50.... Yes. It would be helpful if there was a way to weed out the harmful Ts before they became practitioners. Honestly, we could say the same thing about Officers of the Court, medical doctors, LCSWs, and teachers.....
caregivers/parents.
::nodding::.
Loving the book, Doc. Thanks for writing it: )
Lighter
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Hi Lighter,
Here are some of the thoughts your comments raised in my brain!
“The body is very frugal with that fat, and will move it from the default pathway TO the rarely used pathways we're mindfully cultivating, but it takes time. It's SO SO hard, and I think it helps me to picture moving the fat, rather than picture the old pathways rusting away. In either case, they're both helpful images, IMO, and reminding myself that the process is the process, even when I fail, helps cut down on despair. Being aware, that I'm struggling, is a sign that I'm working on, and towards, that new goal. Awareness is imperative, IMO.
My uncle said a brain doc giving a talk at his office said it would be helpful if we stop all patterns in our lives... like putting a watch on the same wrist, the same way, at the same time, every day.....anything and everything, all patterns, every pattern...just STOP, and mix things up as a habit. I think it frees up fat, and makes our brains more efficient, and capable of practicing choice, rather than developing defaults as habit.... our brains get into the flow of choice, rather than the flow of setting defaults as habit. Maybe?”
Interesting, this is an individual response that may help! Even more powerful, in my view, is the power of two people spending a considerable time together in a particular way—with, as I write in the book, the outcome being highly dependent on the character of the therapist.
It is also interesting that my patients are not mindfully aware of the positive changes (e.g., the new attachment wiring) taking place. The new pathways gradually appear after significant time together and make a difference in my patients' emotions and their responses to life decisions, e.g. concerning relationships. Unfortunately, I am not knowledgeable enough about the biological changes occurring in the attachment areas of the brain to offer a technical explanation.
“Moving on. Page 46, last paragraph.... Brought to mind....
"Call me Lionel."
Your view on attending your patient/client/another human being....
reminds me of the movie THE KING'S SPEECH. Lionel Logue's character explains his experience treating voiceless, shell shocked young men returning from war, and what they really needed "was a friend." So simple. That resonated powerfully for me, and I feel like you're describing this "bond" but in more technical terms... without using the word ‘friend.’”
Exactly! That’s why the therapist gets renamed “Dr. Friend” in the prologue to the book. The blend is very important in my view…
“Page 50.... Yes. It would be helpful if there was a way to weed out the harmful Ts before they became practitioners. Honestly, we could say the same thing about Officers of the Court, medical doctors, LCSWs, and teachers.....
caregivers/parents.”
I completely agree! So much damage is done by destructive people in multiple caring professions.
Thank you, again, Lighter, for reading the book and making such thoughtful comments. I so appreciate it!
Richard
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Hi Dr G :)
Thank you so much for your answers to my questions! It's so interesting reading about your point of view and your experiences. Very honest, as well. I think it takes an enormously expansive mind to be aware there's a possibility of being wrong and I think it's a possibility that many of us struggle with. I have bookmarked the article you mentioned about that to read later.
It was very interesting for me to read that you don't like change and that's why you changed the way things were done, rather than changing what you were doing. So interesting to read of that as a character type and a fundamental aspect of who you are. I've come to the conclusion more recently that I am the opposite. I think the prospect of digging deep within myself and standing still is very frightening for me, so I tend to change where I am or what I'm doing instead. It's interesting that this is all coming up at the same time, as I've been thinking about a period in my younger days when I was happy and enjoying my life and I keep wondering now, what would have happened if I'd gone deeper into that experience instead of dropping out of it and moving on to something else. It's given me great food for thought and I'll continue to ponder on that.
It was also really helpful to read your thoughts on what therapy ought to be trying to help us achieve. It's odd that our problems now are so different to those of the past. In earlier times much of our thought and energy would have gone in to hunting and growing food, keeping warm, finding water, avoiding bears and so on. You'd think that with so many of us not having to give a great deal of thought to those things any more that we'd all just be sitting around feeling happy and content. But we have new and different problems to deal with, many of them created by the very comforts we all enjoy. It's a funny world to live in and your thoughts (and style) of therapy are so helpful at making sense of it all.
I've been re-reading Chapter 1 and I was so struck by your early professor (the one who was also a therapist) marking you down for not using him enough. I found it such an odd thing for him to do, particularly, as you pointed out, as he saw you regularly and could have mentioned that he wanted to see more of what you were doing. It does make it sound like a punishment for you not making him important enough. I was also astonished that you had tutors who insisted you'd plagurized because your work was of too high a standard! Was that connected to the previous professor giving you a lower mark so they thought you couldn't work at that level? It seems such an odd and unpleasant thing to do (although I'm glad one of them seemed to believe you!). It's always very striking when people who are teaching others how to do things can be very unaware of themselves and their own behaviour and attitudes. I'm so glad these bad experiences didn't put you off. Particularly the art teacher who didn't even bother to read your paper (which did sound very interesting!). A friend of mine has recently had a similar experience as part of a Masters course she is doing. She submitted her idea for her dissertation and her tutor sent her back a sarcastic response that essentially rubbished the idea but didn't give any suggestions for improvement or suggest a meeting to discuss further. She switched tutors, submitted the same idea and got a very positive response about an unusual slant on the topic in question along with some information for her to think about and an invitation to arrange an appointment to discuss further if required. Such a different approach. I do feel that education ought to be about helping people achieve their best rather than setting an ideal and then berating people for doing something different. Your honours thesis advisor sounded dreadful as well! It's so fortunate that you used those experiences to think about changing the way things are done rather than giving up on the whole thing. Very disheartening to be treated in such an off hand manner by people. I have met people over the years who seem ill suited for their jobs - teachers who don't like children, paediatricians who seem to dislike parents, social workers who come across as people that would leave their own granny bleeding in the street. It's odd that some people seem to be attracted to things that really reveal their darker side. I wonder if that's why it happens; some sort of deep seated urge to heal but it somehow gets thwarted because they don't notice what's going on within themselves? Interesting to think about.
I'm so glad you finished the chapter with the lovey story of the Head of the Program Professor. He sounds so lovely and it's amazing that he had such a life long impact on you after only two meetings. Thank goodness there was a good egg in there as well.
I'm really enjoying the second read. Thank you so much for writing it and for your responses on the thread as well; it's so helpful and interesting to digest.
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Hi Tupp,
Thank you so much for your second read and your thoughtful questions and comments! I could probably write a second book addressing them fully, but let me try to address them in part ;-)
“It was very interesting for me to read that you don't like change and that's why you changed the way things were done, rather than changing what you were doing. So interesting to read of that as a character type and a fundamental aspect of who you are. I've come to the conclusion more recently that I am the opposite.”
Yes, I think reaction to change is a significant part of a person’s character. For example, having to put down Beau, my beloved almost 14-year-old Golden Retriever a few weeks ago has been very difficult for me. I keep looking for him in every room that I walk into and my heart sinks when I don’t find him.
“It was also really helpful to read your thoughts on what therapy ought to be trying to help us achieve. It's odd that our problems now are so different to those of the past. In earlier times much of our thought and energy would have gone in to hunting and growing food, keeping warm, finding water, avoiding bears and so on. You'd think that with so many of us not having to give a great deal of thought to those things any more that we'd all just be sitting around feeling happy and content. But we have new and different problems to deal with, many of them created by the very comforts we all enjoy.”
For many people, even when they achieve the many comforts of middle class life, aloneness continues to be a significant problem. This is, in part, why people who are in the “upper class” are, in general, no happier or satisfied with life than those who are in the “middle class.” But, yes, in many ways, life used to be much more difficult and characterized by the often overwhelming struggle to survive and help one’s family to survive. And in many places on this earth, survival at this level continues to be the dominant struggle.
"I've been re-reading Chapter 1 and I was so struck by your early professor (the one who was also a therapist) marking you down for not using him enough. I found it such an odd thing for him to do, particularly, as you pointed out, as he saw you regularly and could have mentioned that he wanted to see more of what you were doing. It does make it sound like a punishment for you not making him important enough."
As a 20 year old, I was surprised to find that narcissism played such a significant role in the university setting and in life, in general. But, as I write in the book, this was such an important lesson!
"I was also astonished that you had tutors who insisted you'd plagurized because your work was of too high a standard! Was that connected to the previous professor giving you a lower mark so they thought you couldn't work at that level? It seems such an odd and unpleasant thing to do (although I'm glad one of them seemed to believe you!). It's always very striking when people who are teaching others how to do things can be very unaware of themselves and their own behaviour and attitudes. I'm so glad these bad experiences didn't put you off. Particularly the art teacher who didn't even bother to read your paper (which did sound very interesting!)."
It was not connected to the other event. Looking back, it was also telling that I had no reaction to the suspicions/accusations/disinterest. I had very few expectations from the world around me and assumed that this was the way the world was—again, part of my character. It’s funny, but now in my mid-60’s, every time I receive a letter asking for money from the undergraduate (and graduate!) universities that I attended, I am always tempted to respond with the stories from my book and ask them what they propose to do about them!
"I do feel that education ought to be about helping people achieve their best rather than setting an ideal and then berating people for doing something different."
Interesting—there is much being written on this very topic because the value of a college education in the modern world is suddenly in question. I just read Kathy Davidson’s book, The New Education, on how college education practices should be changed to reflect exactly what you suggest.
"It's odd that some people seem to be attracted to things that really reveal their darker side. I wonder if that's why it happens; some sort of deep seated urge to heal but it somehow gets thwarted because they don't notice what's going on within themselves? Interesting to think about."
Character—and its associated multiple needs—are often very complicated! In my experience, and as I write about, very often people don’t choose professions for the obvious reasons.
"I'm so glad you finished the chapter with the lovey story of the Head of the Program Professor. He sounds so lovely and it's amazing that he had such a life long impact on you after only two meetings. Thank goodness there was a good egg in there as well."
This wonderful professor deserves to be named: Ulric Neisser. You can Google him to learn more. If he were still alive, I would thank him in person. Meeting with him for a total of one hour, he played such a significant role in my education and my life.
Thank you, again, Tupp for all your thoughts and comments! Let me know if you have any more!
Richard
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So sorry you lost your beloved Golden, ((Doctor.))
Our pets are family members.
Lighter
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Thanks, Lighter! They are family members, indeed--and I learned so much from Watson (our previous Golden Retriever) and Beau, in large part because they were so different! Luckily, they will be part of me for the rest of my life.
Richard
P.S. And yes, we recently brought home a female mini-Golden Doodle puppy. I needed to "downsize" because I could barely carry 75 pound Beau up and down the stairs at my age during the last month of his life.
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((((Doc G)))),
I am so very sorry about Beau.
If all people could exhibit the level of empathy dogs do, psychiatrists could probably retire. I can imagine how much this loss hurts.
And, errr, I've known a golden doodle who was the size of a golden...eeek?
Much sympathy over Beau and hope for much joy with the new pooch. That tail and that fur and those eyes...can heal the hurt.
Hops
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Hi Hops,
Thank you so much for your dear post. Yes, many (but not all) dogs are wonderfully empathic beings. I also think that people who end up choosing to be veterinarians, as a group, would make the best therapists.
However painful my loss is, I feel so lucky to have had Beau and Watson in my life—and, as I write in my book, I feel blessed to have been able to combine work and love in my "profession" as well. Having a deep attachment to multiple people helps a lot with loss, too!
Richard
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Hello everyone,
I've been away from this forum for about a year now, maybe longer, I've lost track of time. I read on another forum that this book had been released and have just ordered it.
Dr. G, congratulations on the publication! I'll definitely give you my thoughts (and an Amazon review) when I'm done reading.
Kathy :)
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Hi Kathy,
Welcome back! Thank you for reading my book. I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts and feelings. As you might guess, my beliefs about therapy--based upon what my patients have both taught me and confirmed in my 40 years of “practice”—are very different from traditional therapist’s views. But no spoilers here—let me know what you think!
JustRichard (you’ll understand this after you read the book!)
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Hi everybody,
One of my favorite authors, Yuval Noah Harari writes about a theme of my book in his latest book, 21 Lessons for the 21st Century. https://www.amazon.com/Lessons-21st-Century-Yuval-Harari/dp/0525512179/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1N4WOODQ8NYRL&keywords=21+lessons+for+21st+century&qid=1563054756&s=gateway&sprefix=21+Less%2Caps%2C138&sr=8-1
“Truth and power can travel together only so far. Sooner or later they go their separate paths. If you want power, at some point you will have to spread fictions. If you want to know the truth about the world, at some point you will have to renounce power. “
Fortunately, I learned this early in my career, hence my decision to leave the Harvard Medical School/Massachusetts General Hospital system and work/practice from the “therapy underground.”
While I don't agree with everything he writes, all three Harari’s books are well worth a read!
Richard
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Hi everybody,
Not surprisingly the graduate school experience that I wrote about in my book was far from unique. Here’s an editorial from Nature about what many Ph.D. candidates face:
The mental health of PhD researchers demands urgent attention
Anxiety and depression in graduate students is worsening. The health of the next generation of researchers needs systemic change to research cultures.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03489-1
The following paragraph, in particular, stood out for me:
“How can graduate students be both broadly satisfied, but also — and increasingly — unwell? One clue can be found elsewhere in our survey. One-fifth of respondents reported being bullied; and one-fifth also reported experiencing harassment or discrimination.”
In my book I write about asking my Ph.D. mentor what I believed to be an important and logical question:
“So, I understand that there are unconscious processes that occur in the brain, but what I don’t understand is why psychoanalysts group these processes together and call them ‘the unconscious.’”
His response was to label me a “ f…ing American psychologist”-- and then he never spoke (or listened) to me again. Such an important lesson in "voicelessness" he taught me! As "Dr. Friend" says in the preface to my book: "Learn from everything. Especially the bad things!"
But most graduate students will not experience such faculty behavior in this way. And sadly, as we see in the Nature editorial, this behavior happens all too frequently in the world of academia.
Richard
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This behavior happens everywhere, Doc.
Lighter
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So, true, Lighter. I wish the adult world was not like this. One of my dear ex-long-term patient/friends e-mailed me this from a recent NY Times Magazine article on Mr. Rogers because it reminded them of me and what I wrote about in my book:
“L’essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.” That was Fred’s favorite quote. He had it framed and hanging on a wall in his office. “What is essential is invisible to the eyes,” from Saint-Exupéry’s “The Little Prince.” “It’s not the honors and the prizes and the fancy outsides of life which ultimately nourish our souls,” he once said, expounding on the idea in a speech. “It’s the knowing that we can be trusted, that we never have to fear the truth, that the bedrock of our very being is good stuff. … What is essential about you that is invisible to the eyes?”
He put it this way in a speech:
“There are those of us who have been deprived of human confidence. Those who have not been able to develop the conviction that they have anything of value within. Their gap is rather a chasm. And they most often despair of creating any bridges to the land of what might be. They were not accepted as little children. … They were never truly loved by any important human other. … And so it seems to me that the most essential element in the development of any creation, any art or science, must be love. A love that begins with the simple expressions of care for a little child.
“When people help us to feel good about who we are, they are really helping us to love the meaning of what we create.”
Richard
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I loooooooved that article too, Doc G.
And I look forward to the movie with its perfect lead actor for the part.
Those kinds of people soothe the soul, and we all need to remind ourselves
there are many of them. Somebody on every block who lives according
to kindness.
As YOU do!
Hugs
Hops
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Hi Hops,
Mr. Rogers would have made a wonderful therapist! I so appreciate what he said in the speech above. I have tried to do as much as I can as a therapist by combining art and science and finding out, in a loving way, who each individual person I’ve seen is. The question for me has always been how much of a difference a therapist can make in a person’s life. And learning as much as possible about the psychoanalytic approach, the cognitive behavioral approach, the mindfulness approach, etc., I discovered that the relationship between the therapist and patient had by far the most powerful and lasting influence on a patient’s life.
I’ll write about some of the “issues” of this approach in posts to come. Sadly, my father died in September, and I have been very busy taking care of all the legal and personal matters surrounding his death. So, I’ve had very little time to do anything else.
Thank you, also, for the compliment! You have been such an important and supportive member of this message board for 2 decades! And I know you have been very much appreciated not only by myself but other members.
Richard
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I am so very sorry you have lost your father, Richard.
What a hard and poignant time to be a son.
I hope many memories sustain you during this time.
Plus...pie.
with love,
Hops
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Hi everybody,
The human struggle between truth and status, which has come to the fore in our country in the past few years, has (as I write in my book) always been an issue in the “field” of psychotherapy. I very much appreciated the Vox article below as another example of this struggle:
“Is positive psychology all it’s cracked up to be?
Just over 20 years old, this field has captivated the world with its hopeful promises — and drawn critics for its moralizing, mysticism, and serious commercialization."
By Joseph Smith
https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/11/13/20955328/positive-psychology-martin-seligman-happiness-religion-secularism
Richard
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Doc G:
I watched a TedTalk, bc I've never heard of Seligman, or read anything of his, and here's what I got from it.
It seems Seligman is an iconoclast, and a very rich one. Very successful.
He's created scales and measurement for everything to do with positive and negative emotions/experience/social interaction, and flow..... and he does it with confidence, which I'm sure is annoying to some.
He has categories, and he wants everyone to take tests so they can be labeled, and work on tricks and techniques to get more out of the 3 categories. If they're lacking in one, or more, he figures out if it's meaningful, I think he has 3 major things... work, social, and positive affect... can't quite remember, but he does go on with his interpretations, and what he's interpreting is.....
everything.
Everything old, new, I mean he's looking at Buddhism (2500 years old), exploring what makes sense to him from all walks of mind/body/spirit studies, doing more studies on what he finds interesting, but without boring anyone with details of why something works or advances in neuroscience, or exact studies proving what the Buddha knew back in the day. He just bounces along, hitting the high notes, and doesn't slow down to connect any dots, which is what I require, so I'm not a fan.
Honestly, he reminds me of my martial arts instructor (MAI) picking and choosing what he liked from all walks of battlefield arts, then honing them for himself, and teaching them to others. MAI created his own "art", but everything was found, not created BY MAI.
Seligman might not be coming up with anything "new", but his frank assessment of the standards of practice in mental health treatments, not effective enough in his opinion, along with his quick bouncy style from one idea to another... meaning he doesn't stop to bore anyone with the specifics of leaps in the study of neuroscience over the last 20 years..... certainly not mentioning energy work, or chakras for that matter either. I'm not sure he cares WHY something works or doesn't. He just grabs it, identifies value, and seizes on it... which does remind me a bit of Van der kolk, Levine, and Porges in that he claims he does long term studies and experiments, but it's impossible to know what kinds, or how accurate they are from a TedTalk, and how can he really study anything well, if he's studying everything?
Seligman seems to be standing on the shoulders of giants, and packaging that information for the masses. He's also getting rich and famous. I guess he might be considered a marketing wizard, but does that make him a cult leader? (There were a couple icky moments around victims making bad choices, and then something about moral choices, but.... he bounced right past, and didn't dwell on them. It was a red flag, waved once, then thrown down, and stomped past in his very eager pursuit of the next thing he felt worked, IMO.
Seligman packages other people's ideas using colloquial everyday language, and tremendous self-confidence, IMO.
He's unsatisfied with the current standard of practice in the mental health field. He's unapologetically curious about his exploration of everything and anything he feels might be effective.... it's a little like watching Willy Wonka show you around his idea factory.
How do you feel about him, Doc?
Lighter
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LOL.
I interviewed Seligman many years ago, just after he came out with Learned Optimism. I read the book and it did make sense to me.
I don't trust that blindly believing in pibble-pabble affirmations or The Secrets changes lives much (and holds dangers of delusion), but I remember coming away from it thinking, well, I do at least have SOME control over the direction of my thoughts. Later on, on learning that one of the features of clinical depression is rumination, I thought his approach could be useful in trying to short-circuit that. (But I was always too lazy or squirmy to follow anybody's "program" of self improvement. No gurus!)
Then again, I read enough self-help books in my 20s and 30s to build a house with them. So maybe part of me WANTED a magic affirmation-pill. Would've been nice.
I dunno if he's another Norman Vincent Peale huckster or not, but I viewed him generally positively. Haven't really thought about him much since.
Oh, and I remember he was very cheerful!
:)
Hops
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Hi lighter,
While I know about Seligman’s work—his book, Learned Optimism, is on one of my office bookshelves—I have never met him in person, and so I can’t comment on who he is as a “person.” I found it striking that he describes himself in the Vox article referenced above as “brusque, dismissive, and a grouch.” He certainly doesn’t sound like a “learned optimist!” And obviously (if one has read my book), our approaches to making a significant difference in a person’s life are very different. Because everyone’s brain is different, some approaches will help some people but not others. His approach would not have helped me. But the other point that is important to me, and that I wrote about: it is the patient side of the room, and his or her report on the significant long-term difference a particular therapy has made, that is crucial to evaluating therapies. It does not matter how many books you write, how many TED talks you give, how well known your name is, how rich you become, who you know, etc., etc.. What matters, at least to me, is how much your patients’ lives have changed for the better in the long run as a result of the therapy. Fortunately, and as I have been told many times by my long-term patients, this is the one result I can take pride in, and it gives me comfort as I grow older and think about the meaning of my life.
Richard
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Doc G:
From what little I've read, and seen from Seligman..... you're not one of the Ts Seligman would take issue with. I think he's most impressed by how well a client does in treatment.
If they're making progress... if healing takes place... that's success.
I see this with my T. If we're making progress in a session, we keep going. If we stop making progress, she shifts focus, and we try it another way. She doesn't rely on ONE way, and she certainly doesn't rely on a patient retelling their trauma story over and over without any progress. That's a big no no with her.
I know some Ts do that, and it's how they practice.
My T's methods align with my journey. Every patient will have their own journey. Isn't that why you advise us to interview different Ts and ask questions to test the fit? It helped me to widen my gaze, and not assume all Ts would fail to help me, bc a fistful had.
If anything, Seligman seems to condemn Ts who not only fail to help their clients, but who refuse to examine their treatment plan, or their part. No one T will be a perfect fit for every client, and the Ts who tell clients that, or assume the standard of practice they were taught 40 years ago is THE ONLY way to practice... they're failing their clients in Seligman's opinion, and mine... likely yours too.
Your patients are healing, and their lives are positively impacted through their therapeutic relationship with you.
I think he'd call that effective, and successful.
Maybe he's frustrated with the same Ts you take issue with?
Lighter
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Hi Lighter,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I haven’t read/seen Seligman’s work since the days of his book, Learned Optimism. That’s great if he considers patient progress far more important than the method used—and that patient progress far outweighs therapist fame, status and methodology.
It sounds like you have a terrific therapist—and a terrific match. Yes, that’s why I always recommend people “audition” therapists. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve responded to e-mails from people around the world looking for a referral where they live with “…make sure the therapist ‘gets it’ and that you feel comfortable…” Every therapist is different and while you may agree with the techniques used, you may not appreciate/like/feel respected by the human being sitting across from you. As I wrote about my experience in my book, I learned this the hard way.
Thank you, Lighter, for all your “work” on this board. You, too, have helped so many people, and I so appreciate it!
I am also incredibly grateful for my long-term patients who taught me what I needed to know about doing therapy. One of my dear patients has come for 40 years and he is still willing to teach me! Such patient patients!
Richard
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Thanks, Doc G:
It feels right when you say the T has to "get it."
Feeling met where we are, understood, respected... not pushed into places we aren't ready or able to go... not feeling judged for not being able to go there seems super important, IME.
I'm glad your patients feel safe with you. That's everything, IME.
Thank you for sharing your stories, essays, plays, books, and this forum with me, and everyone else you've helped. I really appreciate the time and care you've gifted to so many.
Lighter
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Hi everybody,
I understand that my book challenges many of the fundamental beliefs about therapy that have evolved over the past century including (in no particular order):
1) Psychotherapy is a technique to be applied by neutral practitioners,
2) Psychotherapists’ personalities—and the damage they can cause—can be neutralized by their own personal therapies,
3) Dividing the brain into small pieces and applying therapy to one of those pieces can make the biggest difference in a patient’s life,
4) All books on therapy should be written from an objective, research based, scientific perspective—not from one therapist’s own personal experience,
5) Faulty parenting is the primary reason for most people’s psychological problems,
6) People should be divided into categories and treated according to those categories—after all, isn’t that what the science of psychology is all about?
7) The people with the most training and who work at the most prestigious institutions know the most about psychotherapy, and should be trusted the most, and
8) Therapists are psychologically healthier than the people they treat and therefore need not pay attention to their responses to patients.
Largely because the book challenges so many of these beliefs (and others)—and because it has been written in an atypical, non-academic form (illustrating, by design, my autonomous “character,”), most people/therapists will not be interested in reading it—and will disagree with much or all of it. The flip side is that a few people—and especially, people who are willing to question prevailing viewpoints, have loved/appreciated it (one of my ex-Massachusetts General Psychiatry colleagues told me it should be required reading in all of the therapy training programs in the Boston area). This is the feedback I have gotten from readers—all of which, negative and positive, I have much appreciated!
I want to thank again all those who have read the book.
Richard
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Hi everybody,
The striking results of this survey as reported by NPR will not be a surprise to many here:
"Most Americans Are Lonely, And Our Workplace Culture May Not Be Helping"
January 23, 20206:00 AM ET
ELENA RENKEN
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/01/23/798676465/most-americans-are-lonely-and-our-workplace-culture-may-not-be-helping
Aloneness, the main focus of my work/book, has reached epidemic proportion in our society.
Richard
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I know I'm way too late on this, but congratulations on the book! I am going to order it right now!
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Thanks, Lollie! And welcome back!!! Just a warning—my goal in the 40 plus years of doing therapy was to make the biggest difference in my patients’ lives that I could, and in pursuing this goal, I had to learn, from my patients, to see therapy in a totally different way. As a result, most people have disapproved of the book and its stated beliefs—but, surprisingly (at least to me), some people loved it. I know one couple who read it and were on “opposite sides of the fence” who argued about it, vociferously, back and forth, for a whole day! I loved that! But the book is completely out of the box for a book on therapy. The prologue of the book is a 10-minute play that I wrote—the reason for its being there is only explained at the end of the book. And then, the first part is told from a personal, first person perspective—something that therapists are taught never to do. BTW, most readers (including acquaintances) would not even talk to me about the book. And, of course, some told me they wished I had written a more traditional academic book on the subject. Of course, all of my patients fired me after reading it. Just kidding—I really enjoyed hearing their individual reactions to it, and most important to me, none of it surprised them. Anyway, I’ll leave the rest to you, and if you feel comfortable about commenting on it, all of your negative thoughts/feelings about it will be much appreciated, and if you have some positive ones, I’d love to hear them, too!
Again, and most important, welcome back!!!
Richard
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Dr. G.
Thanks for remembering me! I am patiently waiting for Amazon to deliver. :)
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Hi everybody,
Given the book that my patient wrote about her therapy with me, some may wonder whether I have treated other patients with a severe, life-threatening Adult Attachment Disorder. And the followup question: did I use the same out-of-the-box approach with these patients? Unfortunately, I haven’t treated any other patients with this extremely rare, VERY hard-to-treat disorder, so I can’t provide any more data. I can say that my ex-patient continues to do very well in all aspects of her life, including the relationship aspect, and is very grateful. But, no, I haven’t used this approach again.
Also, it is very unlikely that any of my other patients will write a book about their long-term therapy. Almost all fit into the categories: senior professors/department chairs, surgeons, business owners, hospital heads, lawyers, psychologists, etc., so they could not risk being exposed. Plus, we all know that very few people (including therapists) read personal books of this nature unless the writer is a celebrity. So, there would be little point in writing such a book. This is too bad, because, as I wrote in my book, the data from the patient side of the room is most important, including an answer to the question: “How big a difference did the therapy make in my life?” Sadly, that question answered by therapists—and even researchers—have been inaccurately reported. Freud, for example, fabricated significant elements/descriptions of his patients’ lives, and I know of one incident where a world-famous researcher in the mind-body area used fabricated data. It is far better that patients, ideally who have tried multiple therapies, report the long-lasting difference a particular treatment has made.
Richard
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That makes sense, Doc.
Lighter
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Hi everybody,
So, for me, where was the line drawn between doctor/therapist and friend? After all, like it or not (!), I am the same human being in both “roles.” Aside from the fact that my doctor role is patient-centered (or, as Carl Rogers would have said in the 1960’s, “client-centered”), for me, this is not such an easy question. A stranger stopped me on the street while I was walking my dog some months ago and reminded me of the eulogy I had given for one of my dear friends a decade earlier. Apparently, she remembered it well. I pulled it out of one of my many file cabinets and re-read it. The eulogy spoke to what I believe and practice as a therapist, though crossing the fine “patient-centered” line to “friend.” So, here it is:
“About 10 years ago, Don and Betsy invited Hildy and me to spend a day at their house on the south shore of the Cape. Don had Bat Mitzvahed our daughter Micaela a couple years before, and we had been friends ever since. When we got there, Don asked me if I wanted to go for an ocean ride in his boat.
When we went around to the dock behind the house, I looked at the boat. It was not much bigger than a rowboat, with a body of what seemed to be ancient wood, and a puddle of water splashing around in the bottom. The outboard motor looked like it had last been started in the 1960’s. Not being much of a swimmer, I asked myself: Are we really going out into the Atlantic in this? But I trusted Don, and luckily, there were oarlocks on the side and a set of oars in case all else failed. Don held the boat steady as I got in, and then he stepped in and pulled the starter rope nine or ten times with no results, each try followed by a minor adjustment to the carburetor. I looked at him to say: well, how about a margarita on the dock, with the usual seltzer and twist for you? But he was unconcerned about the motor: he smiled with every pull. Suddenly, and I must say, somewhat to my dismay, the motor coughed and then came to life. And out we headed.
On the ocean, we rode in and out of the swells large enough to swallow us whole. Large waves slapped fiercely against the ancient gunwales sending spray into our faces, making me wonder what pieces would be large enough to hold onto if the whole thing came apart. But the boat held. And in that tiny, wooden skiff on the edge of a vast ocean and separated what seemed to be a thousand miles from the rest of humanity, Don and I began sharing stories of our lives with each other. Stories of childhood, stories of family, stories of illness, stories of pain, stories of happiness, stories of life. And with sharing those stories over the years, as it so often does, came love. Many of you knew Don as a gentle, patient, wise mentor. He was. But I also came to know a very different side, his vulnerable side—a side that he shared with me for over a decade. It was this vulnerable side that I most valued, and the side, I believe, from which his other sterling qualities emerged.
But suddenly I find myself back in the tiny wooden boat again, miles off shore. The old motor has stalled, the boat is drifting with the ocean wind in and out of the swells, and this time there is no Don. All I have are the oars—and my memories of his love.
But that’s good enough. Stroke by stroke, they will get me home.”
Richard
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This touched me a lot, Doc G...
it's beautiful.
How very lucky Don was that you knew how
to listen, how to be present, how to value another person.
I'm sorry you lost him but how beautifully and poignantly
you rendered your deep appreciation for him.
Thank you for sharing this.
love
Hops
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Doc:
I wanted to read every word you wrote. You had my full attention, then Don took my heart.
I love the trust he had in his little boat. I love that experience helped you understand all will be well, even if the motor goes, and you have only the oars and yourself.
All will be well.
Those were lovely words, Doc.
I'm glad you shared them with us.
Lighter
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Thank you so much, Hops and Lighter! So often it is our loving memories, if we are lucky enough to have them, that help us through tough times—including the current one. Stroke by stroke…
Take care!
Richard
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Hi everybody,
We’re finally getting there (!) on the research side concerning what I write about in my book. Here’s an article that just came out:
"Study identifies social connection as the strongest protective factor for depression"
by Massachusetts General Hospital
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-08-social-strongest-factor-depression.html
It’s ironic that it’s coming from the very same institution that I quit some 35 years ago, in part because my colleagues would never listen to such “nonsense.”
But, many of you may ask, why is such a "connection" necessary with a therapist? Why shouldn't therapists just help people find it elsewhere? And, of course, my answer from the book is: People, in general, at the deepest level, are poor listeners—and this, as I learned from my therapists and teachers, applies to many therapists/university faculty as well. So, the "connection" often has to come first from a therapist capable of listening, in order that the person experience and learn--often for the first time--what this is really like to be heard and valued, and then another person when/if the patient can find someone else who can truly hear them.
Richard
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THIS is why I haVe such a problem with Western medicine..... white men telling me what I must and musn't do.... what I must do for and with my children without listening to what's going on in our lives.....behaving as though they have all the answers, and our little problems are a nuisance to them, bc we aren't magically righting our boats according to their theories of treatment and healing... if ONLY we'd just DO what they tell us to... all egos and looking down their noses from afar.
::shaking head::.
And....
blech.
I don't think I could be driven into a white male psychiatrist's office..... not with a blow torch, even. With all the suspending of judgment (and getting very curious) I've managed to do lately.... I don't think I could get there in that scenario. Nope nope nope.
It's like a big collage of negative images and experiences pop up.... an entire wall....no.... BILLBOARD of them, and it's a lifetime of negativity.
SO, NOW they're willing to consider... or MAYBE accept what you figured out intuitively all those years ago, Doc.
::sigh::.
And I just don't think the old (willfully ignorant) guard will be responsive enough to accept and incorporate the new data, as they've been practicing ar5se backwards too many years.
GRRRRR.....
::breathing::.
gr.
Lighter
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Amen, Doc.
I couldn't agree more that it's that concentrated and genuine (even if paid for) listening that allows transformation. It's a rare friend who can give that in 3-D, so we turn to therapy.
In a way, you've created that for all of us here. We can write and write and free-associate and narrate and ramble out our lives, and somebody will hear, all or parts of it. Until we can hear our own healthier selves. And that's an amazing gift.
Gratefully,
Hops
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Thanks, Lighter and Hops, for your thoughts. I had no idea that people were unable to listen when I went into this field—I had to learn this crucial truth through experience. sKePTiKal makes the same point in a terrific post on another recent thread: “And lately, I'm relearning the "discretion is the better part of boundaries" lesson again. Even with people I trust. The misunderstandings, endless clarification, twisting things around into their own frame of reference that goes on when people open up with each other can be endlessly frustrating for me, at times - when all I want is to be heard, taken at face value, and not have to endlessly support those statements of emotion with explanations, footnotes & bibliographies.”
https://forum.voicelessness.com/index.php/topic,10639.msg184634.html#new
She could have written a wonderful introduction to my book and explained why I chose not to write it in a more “professional” manner/style! The divergence of status and truth has been one of my most important life-long lessons—although sometimes I laugh at myself for thinking I’ve become an expert on not being an expert.
Hops wrote above:
“In a way, you've created that for all of us here. We can write and write and free-associate and narrate and ramble out our lives, and somebody will hear, all or parts of it. Until we can hear our own healthier selves. And that's an amazing gift.”
Thanks, Hops! That’s exactly the reason I’ve kept the Board running for all these years. In a sense, each of you have been wonderful therapists to others on the Board and listened in ways that most therapists cannot and will not.
And while we’re on the topic of listening, it is so telling to me to see the two reviews of my ex-patient’s book—“The Mathematician and the Teddy Bear” by Sara Field--on Amazon:
1) “The author describes how they feel about an experience, but without saying anything about the experience itself. I couldn't find anything that would help anyone who read the book with their own therapy. Contrary to the title, she was besotted by her therapist within the first month, and went on for 9 years at up to 5 meetings a week, for around $170,000 for 1353 sessions. Vanity publishing.”
and
2) “I read this in two days, which is pretty unusual for me. It was gripping. It was like witnessing the birth of a person -- something the author suggests was happening. At first I was skeptical. Why is this person seeing a therapist 5 days a week and spending so much money? But I quickly became convinced of the authenticity of the need. It was necessary for there to be that much time spent in the basement with a therapist. Later I became convinced that the effort paid off. I could see the transformation taking place in the author's notes over the years. I think this is one book that I will think of often and use in my own life.”
I’m sure that at least 99% of people in the world would “listen” to what my patient wrote in the same way as # 1. In fact, the only comment I received from my friends who read it was that the book was “creepy.” And yet, # 2 “listened” accurately and empathically and saw that the “out-of-the-box” attachment therapy was necessary and allowed the person to finally have a life for which she remains most grateful.
Again, the lesson is: the vast majority of human beings cannot listen accurately to another person’s inner experience. They feed it into their own “systems” and then respond accordingly, thinking they’re being helpful. The result is a world filled with both fiction and “aloneness.” As I wrote in my book, I have spent my entire life/career trying, as best I could, to address this problem. And I thank all of the message board participants for helping me!
Richard
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(((((Doc G))))))
Faced with public responses like the first one above, all I think of in my dotage is the wisdom of Joe Cocker:
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood...
Hugs,
Hops
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Hi Hops,
Thanks! Both my patient and I knew that 99% of readers would not understand—and would be dismissive—of our books, but given our particular “characters” we set the same goal: If one person “gets” something very significant from it, the book was worth writing. Luckily, each of our goals has been met.
On this topic, one of the three most important (and surprising) lessons of my life is the divergence of truth and status. Largely because of genetics (passed along to me by my mother!), truth—and making a significant difference in individual people’s lives—is far more important to me than status. Certainly, my patients are grateful for this.
Richard
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truth—and making a significant difference in individual people’s lives—is far more important to me than status. Certainly, my patients are grateful for this
Count me among them, please!
So am I...oh so am I!
Gratefully,
Hops