Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Meh on March 17, 2019, 04:26:22 PM
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Haven't been here for a while. I think it's because I thought I came to terms with the situation and just accepted it. I got old. I figured out I can't change shit. Excuse the language, it's fitting though.
Anyhow today my grandmother passed away early this morning -- I knew yesterday the hospice workers had said she is actively dying, I guess they know because a person's breathing is irregular.
When I woke up this morning my mother sent me a link to facebook via text msg. FACEBOOK told me my grandmother was dead.
I'm not upset about my grandmother passing too much, she is old, we were not super close she wasn't a nice lady etc. I hyperventilated yesterday and cried for a bit, was late to work... okay grief came and went.
But my mother notified ME by posting a group message on facebook.
It's like should I respond to it? Nope I guess not.
It's just really impersonal. If I type that it's impersonal my family will attack me about it.
The classy normal thing to do is make a phone call.
Anyhow shrug. In the end it seems less interaction is the best medicine. Do I go to the funeral? Will I even be invited lol.
When one is young and bitter and has energy there are fantasies of making an out-loud speech at a funeral how you really feel about a person, a situation WHILE they were alive. Once they are dead all of a sudden they are some kind of perfect angel. Before my grandmother was dead just a few weeks ago she was telling her nurses they are fat, she was insulting as many of the medical staff as she could telling her doctor he looked like the leader of North Korea...
LOL one part of me thinks good riddance who cares.
Its fascinating though, her son/ my uncle fell to his knees in the parking lot yesterday crying after the hospice workers said this is the end. Well my mother had asked my uncle to help pay for the medical expenses at the care facility my grandmother is at. He refused AND he is a multi-millionaire, like 10 plus. He also doesn't have children that he is saving it for, its fascinating.
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BOAT, so glad you're here.
And I'm sorry for your loss...and I understand. It's not a loss to have a mean person exit your life, but because your M is SO insensitive and you feel so alone in the world, you get hit in the face again with not "belonging," and that brings up a whole bunch of related loss.
I so hope for you that you'll find your 3-D phamily, even just a couple folks you can trust... it can take quite some effort but it's so worth doing. This may seem like an odd connection but I just binge-watched the new season on Netflix of Queer Eye, and the way they dose many loners in love and esteem and they absorb it like dried out sponges and then just come to life...is really touching.
Wish I could send you a Garbanzo-Boat version of your very own Fab 5...but hope you will find a way to meet your own Fab Few.
On Faceplant? Crude. Stupid. Clueless. Uncaring. Loathe the whole anti-social media, which just makes people lonelier.
love and comfort,
Hops
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G:
Grief is a sneaky thing. All sorts of things get mixed up, shaken and poured into our hearts at once, and it's difficult to sort it out, IME.
You grieve the FOO you have, and the FOO you deserved, but never received. Your Grandmother died, and with her death goes any hope for the stable, kind, loving grandmother you were entitled to.
Your family won't ever see things your way. Your reality threatens their world view, and who they are. They'll never change, but you can. That space in your chest can be filled with new worthy connections. It's easier if we give up hope, IME.
Acceptance is a healing stage.
:sending G compassion, and clarity::.]
You're worthy of safe loving connection.
Lighter
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Thanks gals, I've been away from the board for so long I forgot how freaking smart you are. You really REALLY do get it.
Grief is sneaky it does contains lots of STUFF and YES Hops I do feel alienated from this collective family grief business.
I don't think I'm going to the funeral which makes it worse, its like how can I complain about alienation when I don't go... but its depressing, stressful, chaotic with relatives converging and I don't share good memories of her. I keep thinking about my grandmother and my aunt making up the rumor of my father molesting me based on nothing... I mean that's unforgivable, I'm not going to connect with these people.
God and I'm asking myself even though I don't like these people should I still GO to the funeral?? It's going to be casual and informal, just a family gathering which is harder for me. I rather have some kind of formal ritualized experience of it. That's just me personally. Rather some old-fashioned nonsense of properness etc. would be better, I don't want to talk to my relatives, I have nothing to say to them, I rather just sit there.
I don't care about family photos. I prefer "paying my respects", acknowledging the loss and leaving without chatting it up. I think I can acknowledge a loss without liking a person. But yeah, I'm not going to re-kindle or kindle anything positive. Would have to listen to my wealthy aunt brag, my neurotic uninvolved uncle acting shocked and surprised even though this was a slow approach of death, he didn't visit her too much and now he is devastated. I guess I'm being judgemental and he has his own reasons.
The passing part of a lineage feels significant in itself, I can do my own ritual if I really need to I guess. It seems significant you know, but not personally.
Was just reading this and I'm realizing how complicated this must be for my mother, uncle and aunt.
https://whatsyourgrief.com/grieving-someone-you-didnt-like/nd
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Having coffee, I make it in a glass pyrex cup in the microwave and then pour it through a tea strainer, I guess it's close to french press, I like my kitchen gadgets to be multifunctional, it's a small kitchen. Couple days ago I heard one or two frogs in the pond near where I live, well last night I heard a lot more, I guess the sun is defrosting them out of the mud. Spring Equinox is coming!!
Yesterday evening spoke to my mother on the phone. She was in the throes of grief in her bedroom crying trying to sleep not able to. She finally called me out of obligation not because she actually wants to talk to me. Its rare that I catch her crying then I guess people don't die every day. She was starting to tell me some story about her brother which is also out of character. It was more the character she is in when she speaks to her sister, talkative, confiding. Well I interrupted her story because I could tell she was at the freak out level of upset, super stuffed up nose. I advised her that if she took some cold medicine it would help clear all the inflammation from crying. I also asked her if she had walked her dog which is the activity her and her husband's relationship seems to revolve around. Well she hadn't walked the dog. I suggested she take the medicine and go for a walk in the sun with her dog as this is her normal routine. She texted me later saying it helped a lot and she was feeling better.
I sort of wonder if I shouldn't't have cut her off from talking. If I should have just listened to her. I think I should have just shut up and listened. I wondered was I being narcissistic in that moment. I don't talk to my mother for consolation, I know better than to contact her for any kind of comfort. Maybe I'm not in the position to console her, maybe I'm not the right person for it. Considering the circumstances I think this is okay maybe. I haven't been doing a lot of reflecting lately, I'm not in a deep thoughtful emotional empathetic mode. I know people need to cry to an extent, I'm not sure how much really.
So last night I was up until 3 AM watching TV. My mother had mentioned earlier that she wanted to make an appointment to see a grief counselor. I was feeling sort of bad for her and ordered her a book from Amazon about Narcissism and then canceled it. I ordered it because she still doesn't have insight into the possible personality disorder running through our family. It was also something she said when she was crying I think she frequently doesn't feel like she is ever "good enough".
I ordered the book and then I canceled it. I had second thoughts that she might take it weird. That maybe I should be totally hands off on the situation. I also have up to this point felt armed with knowledge that she didn't have. Even if I couldn't change or control anything at least I could anticipate and identify. I could put a name to the problem.
Here is a very weird part of it. I dislike that it might help her relationship with her sister. That she would obviously lend the book and recommend it to her sister. These people never discuss personality disorders etc. What difference does it really make to me if it should help someone in someway isn't that a good thing?
I feel kind of sorry for my mother. Stunted and all she obviously experiences grief herself and hasn't untangled much to do with her mother. There is another part of me that REGRETS being kind to people. I feel like kindness or helping will backfire. I don't know how it will.
She has a lot of family around her, she isn't exactly reaching out to me.
If she does go to a counseling session I think having read a book about Narcissism would give her so much more to work with rather than blindly groping for explanations.
AND I feel like if I send her that book I am meddling, interfering. It's not my job to help her somehow. I also KNOW that it's not going to change anything between us. IN a really weird way I DON'T want our relationship to improve any longer. I've gotten comfortable with the distance, with the fakeness of it. I have resentment and I know I don't OWE any dues to anybody in my family. Space is the healer when it comes to personality disorder it seems, distance. I also know that the flaws are so deep, the flaws are hardwired into the brain, the flesh of the body. That's why it's a personality disorder. It's not a passing cold virus. A personality disorder has got to be literally what the consciousness, brain fabric is constructed of. A person isn't going to regrow an amputation. I don't really know how bad she is. Why should I care though. Why hasn't she obsessed over the problem until she found a kernal of insight on her own...
I think it's unhealthy for me to be involved, to even think about her.
I think for now I will just let it go as she has continually shown disinterest in my life in general.
Got to clean up my pigsty for a building inspection. There is so much to do in the 3-D world. I don't need to ruminate about my mother's psychological state.. right?
When I was younger the idea of them suffering somehow seemed like it would be satisfying, like justice, getting even. In the end it's not how it works out. It's kinda sad when someone dies even if I don't like them. It's really weird. The strength of a person's emotional ties to a person is somewhat independent of the quality of a relationship. The reality is even BAD relationships ARE STRONG relationships. There is like this common saying that a person "isn't close" to someone. Well I've been telling myself I'm NOT close to these people, but that's not really accurate I guess.
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I think you were compassionate to your mother, and allowed your heart to be touched by her unusual vulnerability and grief. And you gave her a perfect suggestion (the walk in the sun) and it did help her.
That's just a human exchange of human kindness. I think you get to feel good about that.
And at the same time you also get to feel good about your clear and important understanding of PDs and narcissism, and how "abandon hope scripts" is the most self-loving thing a child of Ns can learn to do.
So not dreaming of fixing it all, or re-entering the family circle closer than the distance you've established for your own sanity....that's responsible and self-loving too.
While you've still had an unexpected grace moment with your mother.
Both can be real. Both can be right.
I think you done GOOD.
hugs
Hops
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Garbonzo:
We try to have the relationships we want to have with our loved ones, then see if we can accept the relationships they allow us to have.
You've been present, and caring, and worried about your FOO, and they've been what they've always been.... and likely always will be.
You can accept them as they are, withdraw with love, or harbor anger, and regret, but you can't control your FOO. You have to decide what's best for you, and honor yourself first.
Your FOO can't do any better, or they would have. They're broken.
It seems you have hope things will change. That's a very painful place to live, IME. Not that things can't change, it's just unlikely.
You deserve reciprocal relationships, Boat.
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Hi Garbanzo :)
I'm sorry to read about your gran passing, and sorry that it's brought up so much family stuff again. I think people dying really brings out all sorts of weird feelings and family dynamics and when you're in a situation where you've tried to keep your distance (for the sake of your sanity!) it can be really hard to know what to do, how to behave, where to be and so on.
For what it's worth, I tend to keep to myself where family are concerned now. I don't go to funerals. I do my own little saying goodbye ceremony at home (if I feel I want to) and try to do something nice for someone in need (who might appreciate the gesture rather than using it against me). And in terms of trying to help people see who they are (with reference to your mum and the whole narcissism thing) I tend to hold off unless someone asks. I've got friends who I know actively work on themselves and are open to looking into things and I wouldn't have a problem recommending a book or some kind of helpful thing to them but when it comes to family I leave them to their own things. I had something funny with my sister, who got in touch after many years of us not speaking. Initially I was excited because I thought we could have a good relationship but I realised that she wasn't really interested in changing the situation - she enjoys the drama and likes being able to moan about people without doing anything to change the situation. Which isn't how I like to do things so I kind of left it. Only explaining the way I've experienced it in case it helps in some way. I think you should always take best care of yourself first. So I hope you are able to find a way through it all and I hope you can carry on posting - I've missed you being here.
Love, Tupp xx
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Hi Garbanzo!
I really liked your comment about how even bad relationships can be really STRONG. Makes absolute sense to me. You sound very much more centered in your SELF, in the interaction with your mom, too. To me, at least.
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On bus going to work. On phone. Funeral is today, this is probably best for me.
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Yes. I think you can trust yourself, Boat.
You can be apart without being angry.
It is still sad and feeling whatever goes through you is healthy.
There's no perfect path, just what feels like the best choice you can make.
Big hug,
Hops
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The book I was going to send to my mother well I might send it to myself. It couldn't hurt for a refresher course in self-help. Though on the otherside I just want to get on with life.
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Never hurts!
You won't have to read self-help forever, one day it'll all be internalized.
But a great time to reach for those books is a time like now, when life events have made the bruises ache.
hugs
Hops
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So feeling a little anxious and lonely. I've been working at current employer for about 5 years, today they let us go, I handed in my badge already. We knew it was coming. They are outsourcing the work out of the country. They told us our final day would be end of April but surprise today they told us this is the last day at work in the office. So I get paid leave until end of the month. Normally I would work tomorrow. It should be positive but I feel a little too much turmoil right now. In fact I am worried about the unfinished work I left behind. I'm worried about the future etc. I'm going to spend the next couple weeks trying to get caught up on all my medical and dental stuff still and maybe I should try to do my hobbies. I don't feel like going out tonight at all but I sorta wish I could hang out with my coworkers right now. Next week we have a girls night out planned already. I need to make sure I'm being productive, maximizing any benefits I get. I'm not expecting miracles I just want to survive without wasting time, without getting depressed etc. Chilling out tonight. I think in the morning I will feel better. I haven't done yoga in it like 5 years maybe I should try it again, don't know, don't exactly feel into it. Everything I had going on pretty much has revolved around my job, for the money. Money is pretty much the best friend and family a person can have as far as I'm concerned. I'm so old I don't want to go back to school it seems like a joke almost however I am interested in what sort of training benefits are available.
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Sorry, G, that is a lot for you to cope with, especially with just losing your nan and all the family turmoil that's attached to it. For what it's worth, I think your approach sounds very sensible - practical, functional, hobbies to keep you occupied - all things that help in these sort of situations. Might be good if there are any sort of training options available, even if it just keeps you busy and is something else to put on a CV. In the UK they often offer online courses that are quite short and focus on practical type computer skills so people can do them from home if they have their own internet connection or go in to the library or job centre to use public ones. It might be that there's something like that available - it might whet your appetite for going back to school! Let us know how you get on, a yoga class sounds like a nice thing to do :) xx
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Aww, Boat, I am so very sorry.
I've been through that shock. More than once.
It's a horrible feeling.
But I agree, grab the training.
And connect with anybody you think of, just
go ahead and reach out. And ... just, damn.
It will be okay and you're thinking very rational
thoughts about it all.
I hope you'll keep us posted a lot as you find
your way through this.
(((((((((Boat))))))))))
Comfort,
Hops
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G:
You don't have to run from the sadness. It's a part that belongs too, deserves to be honored, without judgement, IME.
The new psych PA said "Resistance means persistence" recently.
It rang very true, IMO.
Lighter
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Thanks Gals,
So far all I've done today is binge watch TV, walk to the store to get coffee. Consider how much money to spend or not to spend on canvas. Texted a friend from work and discussed the post-employment clique organized get togethers. Cooked bacon ate too much like 4 pieces ugh. Almost like sucking salt out of a salt shaker. Wish I had a garden, I'm city bound here and it doesn't suit me but we have to make due with what we have. And I'm noticing how bad my eyes hurt from hours of TV.
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Sorry, G. I hope you can plant some pots, and enjoy some fresh tomatoes, basil, and maybe peppers.
Drink plenty of water!
Lighter
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Boat, do they offer you anything at all other than some form of exit training?
Couple months' pay, at least?
Will you be eligible for unemployment? Do you know how many months' worth?
The last I comprehended about this job you've had for XX (how many) years now, is that it's been in a call center, doing customer service. I don't know for what kind of commercial enterprise.
Is whatever business the center represented a large category of something? Like, home improvement or insurance or shoes? I'm just wondering whether there's a similar type of business you could start looking for opportunities in online, that will recognize your customer service experience and add you on.
Okay, enough nosy questions. I know you'll figure out a path, with inevitable detours, but you'll find one. You don't want to slide back into the homeless situation you were in before this job (if I remember your timeline right).
So as proactive as you can be once the shock wears off and you've had a couple weeks just to get into some sunshine, do some art....
Hugs,
Hops
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Drank coffee, went for a walk looked at trees blooming. Cooked some fried potato. Watched a lot of TV. Minor episodic house cleaning events. Haha. Sigh. At least I feel a little more settled about the end of the job. Still some anxiety about the future but what of it. Have to take life day by day.
Yep I will get unemployment as they let us go, we were not fired due to performance. I guess it's up to six months worth of payment. Haven't applied yet. I hope I can do something that is NOT customer related. This has been the most unhappy collection of customers I've ever delt with at least this past year because they forced us onto a special project or quit without unemployment benefits. I pray for something where I don't need to speak with people frequently, not customers.
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Drank coffee, went for a walk looked at trees blooming. Cooked some fried potato. Watched a lot of TV. Minor episodic house cleaning events. Haha. Sigh. At least I feel a little more settled about the end of the job. Still some anxiety about the future but what of it. Have to take life day by day.
Yep I will get unemployment as they let us go, we were not fired due to performance. I guess it's up to six months worth of payment. Haven't applied yet. I hope I can do something that is NOT customer related. This has been the most unhappy collection of customers I've ever delt with at least this past year because they forced us onto a special project or quit without unemployment benefits. I pray for something where I don't need to speak with people frequently, not customers.
I can understand that, G, I would really struggle to do a job that involved a lot of interaction with people, especially if it's people with questions or problems? Are there other kinds of work in your area? I know it can sometimes be difficult to find something different as some areas just naturally lend themselves to certain kinds of work and that's what most people do. What kind of thing would you like to do, in an ideal world? xx
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@ Hops yes I have money for a while. It will evaporate towards rent and food and medical bills most likely. They offered me a decent blob of money to stay and finish my job till they closed the department down otherwise we would all have left. It's why I stayed even though I was burnt out.
@ Two I don't care what kind of job it is. Whatever pays the most only that I can't stand on my feet all day, feet and legs are trashed, I have to sit down. I know that is general but I learned from working in healthcare that when everything all shakes out the only thing that matters is money = survival.
Nobody needs to read this it's just a long venting moment.
Day by day, moment by moment right. Long ramble here. I'm writing this down just to make myself feel better maybe. To clear my mind of my feelings. Mainly feelings of frustration. The frustration being mainly I have had a lot of similar admin jobs, office jobs, no special skills.
l'm sitting at Starbucks waiting for a group of repairmen to get out of my apartment. They are repairing very minor things like nails protruding slightly out of the walls of the house. I'm renting like a separated MIL unit. It's expensive. A couple of people have told me their mortgages are less. This will be the fourth freaking day of them needing to enter my unit because the owner wants them to fix these stupid little blemishes all due to shoddy workmanship in the first place. Anyhow that is why I am sitting in this uncomfortable chair at starbucks listening to Starbucks music. I started from being mellow about it to a mounting irritation that they are showing up at 7:45 AM and leaving at 6:00 PM at night and all they need to do is put some touch up paint on more or less.
So I'm killing time, my shoulders are sore, I didn't have a proper breakfast meal. I went onto the website for our local employment office. I haven't contacted unemployment yet. Monday was dedicated to letting the dentist pick at me. Tuesday and Wednesday I was kicked out of my home all day. So I guess Thursday I will call them.
Oh so anyways I was looking over the workshops they offer at this unemployment office. I will probably sign up for some eventually as they count towards "job contacts" for getting unemployment checks. I really want to look into what training is available before I get pushed into just another dead end job like I've had most of my life.
I'm not feeling excited. I'm feeling pretty burnt out on jobs in general. It's not because I'm lazy. I've just spent so much of my life time at a job that is boring and only gets me by but never gets me to some sort of next level.
I'm in my early 40's now. Out of all the workshops that I was reading through the one that popped out at me the most was for people 45 and older, now I'm not that old yet BUT I am identifying with feeling OLD. I feel I have aged a lot in the last 3 or 4 years. Maybe it's genetic. I'm not sure.
I feel that I am perpetually an entry level employee, it's not satisfying, it's not dignified, not respectable. Not motivating.
l should be excited I am getting a retention bonus soon. I don't feel excited. The money doesn't seem fun. It's a buffer that I am thankful for. Though I did work for it.
What is really running through my mind is how people with GOOD jobs, real careers, real educations don't use these stupid unemployment offices, they don't go to these workshops. I liken these types of workshops as pointless. I've done this kind of stuff before when I was homeless and none of these stupid workshops had anything to do with my re-employment. I feel they are geared towards housewives who want to find a menial job for the first time in their lives. That sounds bad. I'm not sure how else to say what I mean. What I mean is that part of the verbiage for the employment office website states that it's set up to get people off welfare. It's focused on such a lowly level. I don't relate to needing to get off of welfare as I'm not on welfare. It's also not enough in 2019 to just "get people off welfare". I guess I just feel frustrated that I always fall between. Or I think I fall between. I'm neither wealthy nor in poverty, I am a souless zombie. What I am getting at is that nothing in these offices really makes people competitive in this area. It's a metropolitan area. It's standard that a person has to be a millionaire to purchase a home here.
Of course I have a very small speck of interest in some of the paid for retraining courses at community colleges. I'm just not sure how much in rent and food and savings and general life expenses that would cost me even if the schooling is paid for. AND how much of my pathetic savings should I spend on it. I am very bored. Even the basic computer program things on my resume I once could do I no longer know how to do because it's been years. It's been years since I've learned anything new it feels like. I'm worried about my brain rotting. I'm also worried that maybe I have become more dumb over the years. Is my brain aging this badly or is it because I haven't learned any new skills in probably at least ten years or more.
I guess maybe I am now considered a non-traditional student because of my age. Which means maybe I qualify for something who knows.
Maybe this all sounds negative, I'm just trying to work out my real feelings. The truth is IF there is anything useful out there for me I need my feelings of frustration to NOT get in the way. I just need to know what my options are and right now I'm not entirely sure.
I've got like 4 dental fillings I need to do and then repair two chips and repair a filling that the previous dentist didn't do well. I know this is good for me but it's not a vacation. It's not relaxing. That's okay. I'm just going to accept that for the moment I can't relax too much. It's just more about being productive. I guess I can blame myself for procrastination.
I hate jargon, I hate teams etc. In life people pay money for something they want or need. Life is so simple and basic.
Some guy came in and spoke to us he was from a union consortium group of sorts from our state capitol. He was saying how he has seen some people's lives drastically change for the better by taking doing retraining. At the same time I never understand how people afford to PAY their living expenses if they are not working. Education is always extraneous.
Something has happened I think I do feel deeply sarcastic even though I'm not an opportunistic mean person, maybe it's cynicism. What is it? When you feel sick of people, sick of customers, sick of life, sick of systems.. lol It's a combination of being very bored and tired. I can't imagine myself doing well during an interview right now. I don't want to be fake. The way women are meant to go further extremes to make themselves look good. I don't want to get dressed up everyday. I haven't worn makeup in years and years. I didn't want this last job I just got laid off from. I was there for at least five years and I never loved it. I never even liked it. I liked the routine, I liked having a window to look out. Having some plants on my desk. It's kind of like I am dead inside at work. Really a zombie. The employment office makes me think of zombie re-employment which makes me smile if I picture that literally. It's like a state or federal government office that isn't meant to help people live their best lives by any stretch of the imagination. The whole system is set up to get people back into the same cycle of drugery. Now I am ranting. But it's really important I get it off my chest and out of my system BECAUSE god knows I can not say this to people at the employment office, I can't say it to recruiters or anybody. I can only KNOW how I feel to myself. I have to just fill out paperwork etc matter of fact. Figure out what my real budget is and timelines for classes if I do take some which I think is very unrealistic. I'm kind of the low level of working class people.
In my last job we were more or less treated like children. It's been a VERY long time since I felt like I had free time, since I could spend my week doing whatever I need or want to do. The doctor and medical catch up appointments are no brainers. I don't think I am going to apply for jobs until May. I want to take this time for myself. I'm sick of people telling me what to do and where to go and what time I have to be there.
I need to rein myself in. I'm sad that I have wasted so much time not building a life, no retirement. It's just reality. At this point isn't it about trying to enjoy life a little bit. Like whats left of it. Pretty soon it's the 50's then it's the 60's and if people make it that far the 70's gets pretty limiting for a lot of people. Physically.
I guess I wish this re-employment wasn't haphazard or desperate. I don't want to be prodded and managed either, funneled along in a unpersonalized system. This is my f-ing life already. I need to limit the amount of time I spend in these stupid employment offices even though they encourage us to use them. Resume help I could use. I don't know how I am going to change it for a this point.
If I get up to pee someone is going to take my spot at this cafe table. I want to go sit on my rental Ikea sofa at home.
I'm even annoyed at the term "re-entering the workforce" It sounds so institutional. What is the workforce anyhow? It sounds like going to prison or coming out of prison.
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One way to phrase one thing (the last one), if you happen to make a resume that lists things this way:
POSITION [title, company, location of company, dates of employment]
Duties: Describe responsibilities, skills (Used XX skill to XX...)
Accomplishments:
Managed XX customer situations on average per week, including XX% complex problems, to high customer satisfaction
Selected for retention training group (whatever it was) due to excellent work quality
You just want to magnify and dignify all the duties/tasks/chores you performed.
Good luck,
Hops
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@ Hops, True that. Facts. :)
So today I met up with 5 other ladies from work omg it was nice for once. All of us are temporarily unemployed, unhindered by the demands of work schedules. It was amazing for once. Not being at work.
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Oh G, I identify so much with everything you wrote there! I'm endlessly baffled by the way we've got ourselves into a situation (as a society) where so many people are forced to do work they hate, that makes them ill, that leaves them too tired and fed up to follow their dreams or passions or hobbies - and only just pays enough to cover bills and pay for a coffee at the weekend. I find it endlessly frustrating - and find it a difficult situation to get out of. And yes, the work/training things. I did a few when my son was younger, thinking it was just good to put a few more things on my CV. Very basic and aimed at people who really didn't have much in the way of skills or qualifications. They didn't seem to be pitched at doing more than shifting people from the dole into a job that paid marginally more. It always felt to me like there's a lack of ambition or desire to help people to do their best - it's more a feeling of "that will do". I find it soul destroying.
I hope at least they finish doing the work at your place soon - very frustrating to not even be able to put your feet up at home. And I wish I had some suggestions of a lovely job for you to get into that would reward you without impairing your health. I get the aches and pains that you describe and yes, I'd find it difficult to do any kind of job that required one position throughout the day, be it standing up or sitting down. It's an odd world we live in. I often think that we have. globally, the capacity for everyone to have their basic needs met - food, shelter, water, safety, companionship. Yet so many people don't have those things and it does seem to me because of choices that are made at a level we have little control over. Humans are a funny species. I'm glad you had a nice time with your former co-workers, though. And I hope things start to improve for you soon xx
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:) Thanks Two. It's nice to be among folks who understand.
When I wrote that I really felt like I was making a childish rant. Now when I read it over again it does make sense to me. I'm tired of people saying "Don't be negative" "Negative is bad". It's really just a judgement people are putting on others when they don't like what they are hearing. Sometimes life is really hard to face. There really is a lot of dissappointment. Usually I have been dealing with life by going through motions. Waking up, eatting, throwing on the same outfit almost everyday out of ease and comfort. Making the same commute. Looking at the same strip mall and residental views. I have been surviving and I am also deeply unsatisfied.
To be honest with myself I have lost. If life was a game or a battle I have definitely lost it. I'm tired. It's hard to have any dreams at the age of 40. Thinking about school and education actually makes me incredibly angry. I think it's because I was never a bad student but the stresses of paying for life always interferred with and desire I had to go to school.
I just gave up on it and I cynically identified with the term "white trash". It's just ownership of reality. I don't even see the term as negative.
On the other hand I also resent the idea of spending so much energy/money at this stage in my life in just trying to be slightly competitive. Should I really spend thousands of dollars on trying to get new skills when I may only have 10-20 more years that I can stand to do the "workforce".
Yesterday at our ladies day out one of my coworkers said she already found a new job which she hasn't started quite yet. I already found the advert for it online and I knew what she was talking about. I read employee reviews of it, same crap we have been doing a very low level customer service gig. And it pays less. Some insurance business lol. She knows nothing about insurance by the way. These job sites are a revolving door because they don't pay people well, don't treat them well, don't train them too much. I think customer service is meant to make everybody miserable. It's almost like it's meant to punish customers for needing help. HAHA
So today should be my vacation day and I had to wake up early because there is a 3 hours window in which someone may or may not come to look at the defective washing mashine in my unit. It's brand new less than a year old. The person hasn't shown up yet, it's only a preliminary check, it's not a freaking repair visit unfortunately. So two hours later still nobody has come. I wanted them to come and go so I can use my space without being invaded.
I want to do my messy hobbies. I want peace and quiet. It's totally not happening.
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So I had a pattern that I painted the outline of on a canvas, it took so long to come up with the design that I didn't want to complete the painting in case I might screw it up. So I decided to make multiple doodle iterations of it. I got tracing paper and graphite paper so I could copy my own design a few times over onto small canvasses. This way I figured I wouldn't be so worried about messing anything up. Well the process of doing the copies is a little more tedious than I thought it would be. I guess I will work on that a bit. I'm tired I just want to go back to sleep. I could have f'ing slept in.
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G, I started a whole thread on here a little while ago (Embracing The Dark Side) that was all about embracing the negativity and not seeing it as a bad thing or something we shouldn't allow. I'm a proactive and resourceful person and I tend to look for solutions to problems. I'm aware I am luckier than some - I have a roof over my head, access to clean water, food, heat - basic things that many people don't have. But - I think life does deal some people a bad hand and I feel the same way that you do - I'm mid 40s, I've worked since I was thirteen and I'm essentially a decent person - but here I am, skint, lonely, battling through my various issues that seem to just keep coming! So yes, sometimes it does get overwhelming and it just isn't possible to draw up the energy to be positive or look on the bright side - because sometimes the bright side just isn't that bright and I feel like I'm lying to myself if I pretend it is. And that's alright. I think it's okay to feel crappy about a crappy situation. We can still want it to change and do things to try to change it whilst still feeling crappy about it being crappy :) The disappointment that life isn't better is hard to deal with, I find, particularly as we get older and start to feel that we may have fewer opportunities - I find that hard to ignore sometimes. So I do get what you're saying. I'm glad you got a canvas out and got started on something, though. And I hope the repair people got there eventually - waiting in for people when you don't know when they're coming is really annoying xx
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Had this idea that if I had any time off which I do now I would finally (FINALLY!! Emphasized) have a chance at a flurry of creativity. I used to get flashes of creativity, I still get them every once in a while. They aren't on-demand. They operate on their own schedules. I often don't act on them anymore because sometimes it's when I am on my way to work. Sometimes I'm not at home and in the wrong place.
This is what I am thinking about at the moment. Finishing these canvases is just another chore it feels like.
Maybe tomorrow. Who knows.
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I'm so happy to hear that, Garbanzo Boat that Floats...
I wonder if there is an Etsy thing that would inspire you and make you money.
You have always sounded to me like such an artist.
Hugs
Hops
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Heyo Hops. :)
Probably more of a hobby than anything else. Not that great at it sometimes. I sure made a great mess today.
There are about 13 containers of paint, multiple recycled salsa jars, sour cream and ricotta tubs filled with various colors all on top of a plastic drop cloth in my "living room".
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Sounds like an awesome, creative mess!
"Great" is in the eye of the beholder.
So happy you're enjoying this.
Hugs
Hops
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Tired up late, have compared two paper print outs of the same Proposed Treatment Plans (dental) showing me totally different costs for the exact same procedures. Comparing these dental office print outs to the insurance web info that is supposed to cover 80% and doesn't look like it is. Yep this is what I am doing with my Friday night.
Bleh too tired to fight right now.
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Hey Boat,
I don't know about where you are, but in my city there is a Board for the Aging (50 up, I think, but they're flexible). You can call them and make an appt with an insurance advisor, who'll help you navigate something like that.
How maddening!!!
Hope you're soon able to get it sorted out.
Hops
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I'm at the beach trying to do voice recognition on my phone staring at a seagull, brought a self-help book with me of course. title the body keeps the score brain mind and body in the healing of trauma. I had to get out of the house because last week I was been binge-watching hours of art lectures on YouTube. Which is okay it was interesting Inc my life has been kind of void of culture or enrichment or something.but still it was starting to feel like a depressive slump. thought I was over these self-help book phase I feel like they contain similar information and antidotes and all that but it doesn't really change a person's life circumstances it's just information. At the same time it is a source of validation I guess if that's what a person needs.
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I stopped reading self help books for just the reason that you describe, G, I felt that however hard I tried, nothing I did seemed to change my external situation. I still feel like that now. I've worked very hard on myself and my life for many years now but I'm still alone, still skint, still not doing anything that I really want to do. I feel like I am always making the best of situations, rather than living through choices. People often talk about accepting your situation but I always wonder where the line is between acceptance and resignation - at what point is it graciously accepting things are what they are and at which point is it just giving up and not trying any more? It's a question I've never been able to answer for myself. I find the beach incredibly soothing, though (as long as there aren't too many people there!). But just the sound of the waves and watching the tide come up and then recede - I love that. And seagulls! I love watching them stamp their feet on the grass to bring worms up; it just always makes them look really cross :)
The art lectures sound interesting, though, but I know what you mean - however educational it is, you do get to a point where you feel like you need to move yourself xx
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@ Two
same mostly alone if honest and yes just making the best of it
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I've been home just watching TV. Staying up too late. Being worried. Resenting the idea of going back onto someone else's time schedule. I feel like I am in some time vacuum black hole. I've been thinking of people from high school, old family friends. Tripping out on how old my parents are. I'm in a dark mood for various reasons. I'm tired of going and going and going and it all being pretty pointless except for the piggy bank. I should be somewhere on vacation but I don't feel too motivated. Who goes on vacation alone? I guess I could yeah but I don't want to.
Now that my grandmother past away her husband is having more or less constant illness as well. I live far away I only have to hear about it I am not there. Per usual I am not close to him either. It's still creepy old age is. I feel like people who have had kids mark their lives based on their kids development. I don't really mark my life at stages, I simply am amazed at how much time has gone by.
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Time does fly by, G, and I find it's going quicker the older I get. I think it's very hard when you've always worked very hard - not just in the physical sense of work (ie, what you get paid for) but also when you've had to work hard at coping with things that have happened and/or other people - that invisible work that's so draining and time consuming but doesn't really show anything tangible at the end. You get through it, and it might make you a better person (I don't think that's necessarily always the case, I feel I am more cynical and worn out because of it all) but it doesn't feel like there's a big achievement you can show off to everyone. And I think that's hard in our materially focused society. I struggle with knowing I've worked for thirty three years and if I sold everything I own I'd probably make a few hundred pounds. So I get where you're coming from. It is tough. And I think losing people makes us re-evaluate where we're at, even if we weren't that close to them, you know? xx
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I hear depression coming, BoatGarbanzo friend.
I hope you'll take warning and hie thyself to some counselor for regular visits
until you get through this transition, whatever shape it takes.
I understand your drained feeling at the idea of hitting the bricks again.
How can you take care of yourself emotionally now, other than being alone?
Hugs
Hops
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@ Two, yep exactly a forced re-evaluate type of moment in life.
@ Hops, :P I'm reluctant to use the D word too much. It has it's roots. Roots in a lot of things I guess. When I get a new routine I will be too busy to feel anything! Whoopee. Besides what's wrong with watching TV and hiding from the sun :P
Maybe I will just call it a sad/bored/reality strikes back combo.
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its about two AM, was looking for something interesting to watch so i got the list of Sundance films, there was one named Burden, couldn't watch it on Amazon so i found an adjacently named but different film called THE Burden which is in Swedish, some kind of stop motion animation, auto-tuned musical about monkeys working in call centers (well other places too) its just the call centers that were most poignant to me.
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its about two AM, was looking for something interesting to watch so i got the list of Sundance films, there was one named Burden, couldn't watch it on Amazon so i found an adjacently named but different film called THE Burden which is in Swedish, some kind of stop motion animation, auto-tuned musical about monkeys working in call centers (well other places too) its just the call centers that were most poignant to me.
Very apt for you, G, and it's hard, isn't it, you know what you don't want but what you do want is often out of reach (and when I say you I mean people in general, not just you specifically :) ). I love stop motion films, I will have to have a look for that one, did it have sub titles as well or is it just music all the way through? xx
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Here is a different film by same lady Niki lindroth von bahr this one has some English sub titles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7KIsGq3XVw
This one only French unless you pull it up on Amazon w/ Prime and there is a version with English subs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMB4ZJ4Xqjo
https://www.amazon.com/Burden-Niki-Lindroth-von-Bahr/dp/B07BHZTSS3/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=the+burden+swedish&qid=1557721854&s=gateway&sr=8-2
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Here is a different film by same lady Niki lindroth von bahr this one has some English sub titles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7KIsGq3XVw
This one only French unless you pull it up on Amazon w/ Prime and there is a version with English subs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMB4ZJ4Xqjo
https://www.amazon.com/Burden-Niki-Lindroth-von-Bahr/dp/B07BHZTSS3/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=the+burden+swedish&qid=1557721854&s=gateway&sr=8-2
Thanks, G, I'll have a watch of that later! I like watching things that are a bit different; there's so much on TV now that it's easy to fall into watching the same things over and over because wading through seeing what else is about takes so much time! Was TV a lot more limited in the States years ago? We only had three channels when I was a kid and they only broadcast in the evening, it all finished by midnight usually - I think one channel used to show old 50s B movies later than that? You used to have to move the indoor aerial about to get a good picture; my dad used to make me and my sister take turns standing on a chair holding the aerial up so he could watch the football results :) Lol x
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Just waking up and I barely want to put my coffee down long enough to type. There is something in the mailbox but I'm not ready to go get it yet. While drinking my coffee the passing thought came to me about CBD oil or something, I don't use these products so I don't know a lot about it. I have a feeling it wouldn't work well for me. It's just that I am tired of chronic anxiety it almost defines my personality. It occurs to me what if I could just be relaxed and calm and at ease and less engaged with irritating things. I'm just going to write out something here not sure what. What if what I am doing is thoughtful downtime. I get the image in my mind of a subterranean mole that spends it's days going up above ground to do required non-sense but only really feels like a mole when it's back in it's subterranean earth home again.
I'm not even sure if I feel like writing I sort of do but I sort of don't. Blah. I'm going to listen to some Tibetan singing bowl music LOL and stare at my screen. Wordy music can only distract me at the moment. My apartment is a mess, I tore it apart looking for a hat that I made but I never could find it and now everything looks like a rototiller has been here. It's bothering me. I will have to deal with it.
So in all this downtime I have at the moment I have been reading a bit about hormone imbalance. I never knew much about it before. My face skin has been so messed up, sensitive, red inflammation, rough.
I was reading that hormones are connected with cortisone, inflammation, allergy, the thyroid gland, MOOD, ANXIETY. Sleep headaches, energy levels aka motivation get up and go.
I ordered some progesterone and I think it is helping my skin. I don't want to get too crazy thinking this is going to FIX my skin issue. The dermatologist wanted to do laser treatment and really I thought that just touches on a symptom not the cause.
When I had insurance I really should have demanded a hormone level test, I didn't even know they could test for such a thing I'm so ignorant. I also should have demanded a thyroid test. I didn't think of doing this.
I felt something was off all I could think of was to ask for a cholesterol check and diabetes check. The cholesterol is TOO high even though I only weigh about 130.
What is hitting me is that I have been ignoring my health and wellbeing for so long. I have some tendancy to want to blame it on my job. i probably can't 100% do that. But commute time and working full time instead of working from home or having my own schedule does impact the way we live. My job was emotionally stressfull to me. I don't miss talking to angry people. Please god let my next job not be about talking to angry people 40 hours a week.
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AMEN! I can't imagine the chronic stress (for an introvert, especially) of talking to angry people All Week Long.
I love that you're doing Thoughtful Downtime. I love everything that implies. That is freaking awesome, Boat.
Wow. You did some kind of dive in that time that brought you up to the surface again with a lot of thinking, a lot of insight, and a lot of focus.
BRAVO.
And, wowsers!
xxoo
Hops
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Yeppers. Endocrine system so entangled with everything else. Even coffee messes it up depending on what race a person is it either lowers or elevates estrogen making a person estrogen dominant and other hormones lower.
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/27/caffeine-alters-estrogen-levels-in-younger-women/
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I think it's very, very easy to neglect our health when we're working hard to just get through the day, G. I don't know what your health system is like in the States, but in the UK there's very little focus on causes of health problems and natural ways people can help themselves through diet, supplements, sounds (music therapy and so on) and all the other things that are out there. So it's difficult to wade through information and to try to figure out what might help, especially when dealing with a job that must have been very draining emotionally.
For what it's worth I am finding acupuncture helpful for my hormonal problems (heading into menopause and was experiencing a chronic drop in mood from Day 14 of my cycle until my period ended). I'm certainly not cured but I'm on Day 17 and I feel human. Normally I would be on my knees by now so it seems to be helping. I did find the coffee triggers hot flushes in me so I've cut right down on that and that's helped. It's difficult because so many things 'might' help and it's hard work trying stuff out!
With regards CBD oil, I take three drops in the morning and then vape the oil through the day ( the oil that you take orally and the oil that you vape are different). I also have CBD lollies that I can suck on if vaping isn't appropriate. I am finding it helps with my anxiety. The advice I was given is that you should start with three drops of the lowest strength and slowly build up to taking more, to see the effect it has. It can create a slight worsening of problems initially; that is apparently a good sign that it's helping and you're on the right path with it. It has been a lot of trial and error with me and it is expensive; I am very lucky that we have a really good hemp shop in town and the guy that runs it is not only an expert but he really passionately believes in helping people out rather than making huge profits out of them, so he'll recommend the product he thinks helps best rather than the one he can mark up the highest. I know he imports from the States, I think Charlotte's Web is a good brand? So it might help - but again, it's only a might!
I love Tibetan singing bowls :) Bizarrely, I also find psy trance really relaxing, despite the fact it can be quite frantic. I don't know if it's because it reminds me of happier days or if it just does something to my mind but I am a big fan of music without words :)
With the messy apartment, have you tried just doing ten minutes at a time? I find that helps me with a big, overwhelming project - ten minutes of picking things up (it's amazing how much you can get done in ten minutes). I think you're doing an amazing job of hanging on in there with all that's been going on, G. And I hope the hat turns up! xx
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Well the health system is varied. It's a matter of hit and miss, luck, persistence, insurance, how much time and money a person can throw at a problem. A person has to be on the right track to start with, ask for the correct tests etc. Typical family docs spend 7- 9 minutes with a patient it seems. They will only ever address one single issue per visit. They want patients to make an individual appointment for each health concern. There are a lot of alternative medicine types of things out there, it's almost too much, lots of it seems like trendy fads. Somewhere between the trendy fads and real medicine there are some things that really are going to help or work.
It's hard to know which issues in life we just have to accept and live with as unchangeable. OR what are the things we should work on and shouldn't just accept as status quo. It's exhausting to fight a losing battle. It's also almost wrong to do nothing about a situation that could be improved or even healed. As I type that I just think holymoly where do we prioritize.
Acupuncture and acupressure seem somewhat legit. I know of someone who was diagnosed with a non-cancerous tumor but large enough it had to be removed after her acupuncturist took her pulse! I guess they are sensitive enough they could tell the blood flow or qi flow whatever wasn't correct where the tumor was growing. So that is evidence enough to me that there is something to it.
In life it's like one doesn't pay attention to subtle or non emergency signs that something is just off and not working in general.
Maybe I have dumbed myself down somehow. Perhaps in a Narcissistic way I wish the world would just stop for me so I could catch up. So I could surreptitiously experiment with my health and feeling good. So I could take some classes or something. Financially one is forced to eventually just keep going.
haha... I mean if horses are coming out of the starting gate it feels like my horse decided to turn around and start out of the back of the gate IN the opposite direction. It's just a feeling. I remember a sports class I took so long ago and the instructor would be telling people they can never stop practice or else they will forever be trying to catch up. I don't know. It it possible that sometime we believe we are doing okay but we really are not. OR maybe we are not doing as badly as we think we might be doing. Just rambling here. I really need to ramble sometimes. I have faith that it means something eventually. Sometimes one feels like they are NOT doing the best they can do but not have the motivation or energy to do better...
I have wanted to start yoga (at home) again for so long but I haven't gotten into it. I know it's yet another one of those fad things. It does force us to pay attention to our body though.
It was easy to do yoga and jog and do all that stuff when I was young and fit I was fascinated by the exoticism of it. I STILL need to do that stuff even though now it feels like it's from a totally different perspective. I'm old and I'm just trying to be JUST OK perspective.
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I think the very simplest form of getting in shape at home is those stretchy exercise bands. You can also google "home exercise with household items" for loads of programs using soup cans, chairs, your body, the doorframe, etc. JUST AS GOOD.
I love the Royal Canadian Air Force XBX plan too--did it as a girl and it was one that really helped me. Mainly because you could begin at a very very easy level and gradually move up the chart. The gradualness is so specific that even my brain could follow it, and it also meant that it was very hard to hurt yourself. The whole thing is reproduced here.
http://www.corvedale.com/5bx/xbxPlan.pdf
Plus which, watching June Cleaver perform these in the illustrations is a stitch.
Good luck, Boat! Woot woot!
xxoo
Hops
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Well the health system is varied. It's a matter of hit and miss, luck, persistence, insurance, how much time and money a person can throw at a problem. A person has to be on the right track to start with, ask for the correct tests etc. Typical family docs spend 7- 9 minutes with a patient it seems. They will only ever address one single issue per visit. They want patients to make an individual appointment for each health concern. There are a lot of alternative medicine types of things out there, it's almost too much, lots of it seems like trendy fads. Somewhere between the trendy fads and real medicine there are some things that really are going to help or work.
That sound very system to our health system, G, you have to kind of know that the problem might be when you go in so you can request specific things are checked out. Which to my mind makes doctors kind of pointless if you have to try and work it out on your own first! And yes, single issue appointments, and here they only make one referral at a time as well, so you wait months to see a doctor, they say that you don't have the thing you thought you might and then you have to go back and start again to get referred somewhere else to check for a different problems. It can take years and it seems mad to me not to make multiple referrals at once and then just cancel the ones you end up not needing. Much 'fadness' around alternative treatments, I think, it's hard to work through the maze and figure out what might help.
It's hard to know which issues in life we just have to accept and live with as unchangeable. OR what are the things we should work on and shouldn't just accept as status quo. It's exhausting to fight a losing battle. It's also almost wrong to do nothing about a situation that could be improved or even healed. As I type that I just think holymoly where do we prioritize.
Gosh, yes to all of that, where is the line between acceptance and resignation? So hard to know when you should keep trying and when you should just throw in the towel and let it happen. So tiring.
Acupuncture and acupressure seem somewhat legit. I know of someone who was diagnosed with a non-cancerous tumor but large enough it had to be removed after her acupuncturist took her pulse! I guess they are sensitive enough they could tell the blood flow or qi flow whatever wasn't correct where the tumor was growing. So that is evidence enough to me that there is something to it.
Wow, I had no idea they could pick up a tumour with something like that! That is amazing. I have had times with the lady I used to see for acupuncture where she knew how exhausted I was just from taking my pulse - I often didn't need to tell her what was wrong, she'd take my pulse and tell me! The guy I'm having treatment with at the minute picked up on an emotional thing I hadn't mentioned because I didn't think it was relevant - so amazing being able to read a body like that.
In life it's like one doesn't pay attention to subtle or non emergency signs that something is just off and not working in general.
Maybe I have dumbed myself down somehow. Perhaps in a Narcissistic way I wish the world would just stop for me so I could catch up. So I could surreptitiously experiment with my health and feeling good. So I could take some classes or something. Financially one is forced to eventually just keep going.
haha... I mean if horses are coming out of the starting gate it feels like my horse decided to turn around and start out of the back of the gate IN the opposite direction. It's just a feeling. I remember a sports class I took so long ago and the instructor would be telling people they can never stop practice or else they will forever be trying to catch up. I don't know. It it possible that sometime we believe we are doing okay but we really are not. OR maybe we are not doing as badly as we think we might be doing. Just rambling here. I really need to ramble sometimes. I have faith that it means something eventually. Sometimes one feels like they are NOT doing the best they can do but not have the motivation or energy to do better...
I think my horse is lying in a field waiting for someone to bring her some hay, G :) Rambling is good, I think it clears our minds out a bit. I think sometimes not doing much is the best we can, you know?
I have wanted to start yoga (at home) again for so long but I haven't gotten into it. I know it's yet another one of those fad things. It does force us to pay attention to our body though.
It was easy to do yoga and jog and do all that stuff when I was young and fit I was fascinated by the exoticism of it. I STILL need to do that stuff even though now it feels like it's from a totally different perspective. I'm old and I'm just trying to be JUST OK perspective.
There are loads of good yoga vids on YouTube now, and a lot of them are quite short. If you've not looked yet, I like 'Yoga with Adrienne' stuff and also things by Jen Hillman - they seem quite real and human, you know? One video I tried to do had a lady that was so bendy she ended up with all her limbs pointing in the wrong direction. She looked like someone had folded her and stuffed her in a suitcase lol
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yah there is a difference though between what we might do, could do, like to do, want to do, feel like doing, know how to do, inspired to do, think about doing, talk about doing versus what we really do
the most I do right now is if I feel my shoulders n neck all scrunched up I will deep breathe and relax them, about as little engagement, not much "doing" in that
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watching ted talks instead of actually doing anything, one presenter stated there is research that chips go through midlife crisis so I had to look it up
randomness
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/scientists-say-chimps-and-orangutans-have-mid-life-crises-136191276/
well they are zoo apes.... do wild apes also have a midlife crisis I wonder??
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Visited my mother recently. On a daily basis she looks forward to drinking wine in the afternoon. It's probably not alcoholic quantities by definition, however I don't pay attention to how much she is drinking. I just heard her telling her husband to bring her the whole bottle. I also notice it's a real important item on her shopping list. I'm just writing it out for no reason. It's definitely a real consistent part of her daily routine.
We also very rarely have 2-way conversations. It's more like she is a random commentator. I bore her. I see her engage with so many strangers in her neighborhood. I totally bore her to death, she has about a 2-3 minute max focus ability on anything that is of import to me personally.
I feel pretty bland writing about her.
Earlier today I had a memory of when we were at my aunt's house for some reason holiday or something. I was a teenager had a really bad cold and I had told my mother I needed some cold medicine. My aunt told my mother to ignore me (and she did) and that I should walk to a store and get it myself. A store not being even within 15 or 20 blocks maybe, I don't know as I didn't live in that neighborhood. My aunt eventually got a kid and there is no way she would have ever said something like that to her daughter if she was sick.
It was a long time ago and it doesn't matter now. Maybe I just NEED to remind me of how false my relationship is with my mother. If a memory pops into my head from years ago my brain has tucked that away and is now showing it to me again.
My grandmother's husband is now having health problems and even though my mother and aunt are SO engaged with all of that I am SO distant emotionally from everybody.
I don't care too much about him at all. The times we have talked were very few. It's weird all this aging. It's also not too meaningful to me that he is sick.
My mother really seems to think I am going to help her when she gets too old. So now I get to feel like a piece of shit if I don't.
Can't I just erase this dumb chalk board.
Sometimes one thinks of just moving away. To where I don't know.
Basically I know that both of my parents are aging. I don't like them. They don't give an F about me. I don't have my life together, I just do one crap job after the next crap job that pays for rentals.
Sorry not trying to be dark. I do tend to come here and just unburden myself with whatever is kind of hiding in the shadows of my mind.
The only way I can win is if I get lucky and maybe enjoy life a bit I don't know.
The thing that hits me is that I believe my parents have expectations of me helping them. I KNOW nobody will help me as I age.
Sometimes I think I am doing more harm to myself by maintaining a relationship with my mother than if I didn't. It's as if I really need to "grow up" and go do more with my life, I feel that judgement coming down.
I don't want to think about all this. The thing of the matter is my mother's younger siblings are both millionaires. They could help her if they wanted to and if they were not so messed up in the head themselves.
Isn't that my way out? My mother and my aunt are closer than I have ever been to my mother. My aunt can purchase a baby sitter for my mother when the time comes.... ??
Very weird thoughts. Writing this has made me feel really unhappy. LOL Okay well I should read my book or something.
I don't need advice or anything I just have to get it off my chest I guess.
Should I be asking myself what am I getting out of this relationship?
Am I getting some weird undefined primal reassurance. Yeah I think it's just a feeling of false reassurance. Probably most adults don't need reassurance from their parents because they actually got it when they needed it. IDK
I do feel really horrible about my parents suffering or having a hard time but I've got some kind of emotional messed up conflict. Didn't I suffer, didn't they kind of screw me over in life. They were not thoughtful parents. They just behaved however they felt they wanted to.
I guess I am really asking myself is okay to abandon my parents if/when they need me. When my needs were barely met growing up. If everything had been okay why would I come here writing confusing things trying to work something out.
The fake relationship with my mother sometimes confuses me i think. I have to remember that she basically was pissed off at my brother because she thought she had to pay cremation fees. That really is who she is.
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I'm kinda wondering what do I like to do? Because in the past 10 years I don't think I have really picked up any new hobbies or interests. I think I started to enjoy reading more than I did in the past.
In the past I liked art of all sorts, I taught myself to knit and I liked that. In the past I liked to cook new recipes, I liked to hike and travel.
Maybe energetically I am winding down in life because reading is pretty low energy. There is also minimal investment of travel and money with reading, it's not clogging up my space with unused crafty components.
There used to be things that I just really really wanted to do, who knows why.
Summer is upon us and even though it stresses me out closing the curtains (because of all the kids outside) laying on the sofa reading is what I am most likely to end up doing. It's kind of like I'm shut down and in denial or something.
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Knitting with cold hands, mailed important paperwork, watching: "The Real Causes of Depression | Johann Hari" I like some of his quotes like "your pain makes sense".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfl3Yh7fS4g&t=164s
okay I am not sure why he can't stop talking about Trump, he puts a lot of politics in there which kinda distracts
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G, I've been a pretty compulsive reader for most of my life. It's served different emotional purposes for me. I started to read, very very young.
Lots of children's Bible stories, adventure books - The Black Stallion series was one of my favs. Back then, I think I was reading to learn about life. OTHER kinds of life, than the one I was experiencing at home with my crazy family. I wanted to know what other kinds of people liked, did, how they lived - so that I could choose to do something different from what I seemed fated to experience in those first 12 years of life.
I was already thinking about spiritual matters, psychology, religion, political theories etc. Reading Shakespeare - complete works front to back, including the sonnets early in HS. Tolkein. Sci-Fi classics. I was already convinced that LIFE DIDN'T NEED TO BE THAT WAY and that people could choose to change how they interacted with life. And it provided me a huge escape - identifying with different characters, and reading how they thought, felt, and acted in response to the challenges they faced. I tried all those on, like different persona "outfits". Over time, I know I've kept some - and discarded lots of others.
When I was really bored with being me, and tired of beating my head on the same old brick wall of problems... I read. When I just didn't have the energy to tackle facing what I was confronted by - I read. I let myself enter the world of the book, which might be why I've gravitated toward long series like Outlander and Song of Ice & Fire. Sagas. There was continuity in the stories; the characters were reliably predictable in their personalities, their character, and abilities. And when they overcame a big challenge or acted outside of their "normal character"... it was the most interesting part of the story for me.
Reading was how I educated myself on how to become a whole person. It filled that hole of not having a parent mirror who I was, somewhat. I learned about strange exotic dangerous and very very balanced and well-grounded people... through stories, rather than non-fiction self-help books. While with Mike, my reading fell off. For years, I didn't even read a whole book. And it was the first thing I returned to, along with many many film options that I didn't have a chance to indulge in due to him being the master of the remote. LOL.
I just watched an interesting (lesser known) movie last night, with a super cast. "Get Low" - Robert Duvall is the lead, Bill Murray is a funeral director, and Sissy Spacek figures in it as a pivotal relationship in the hermit's life and story. The reviews say the ending is anti-climatic, but honestly, for those of us who had a story to tell about their lives that they kept secret so long... the ending is spectacular. The way the story of this hermit's secret is told is pretty well done and the acting, with this cast? Is over the top good. It's just a simple story but the supporting details of the visual and plot "telling" is pretty well done too.
Have you tried writing? Maybe you'd have better luck at it than I do. I can babble like this, just fine... but can't tell a story for crap. I can't even tell jokes properly. Never had the knack. It might be fun to try it just for you. Doesn't have to be YOUR story; just make up people and events and locations.
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Drinking sludge dust coffee. Watching DIY videos. I like them DIY. I won't do a home DIY because I always feel an impending move coming on.
On my "TV" binge. Was listening to an interview while knitting. A comment made was essentially about how a person who doesn't like their job, gets up commutes comes home to a home they don't really want to come home to and does it over and over again is basically "burning daylight".
Burning Daylight, I mean is this real, is it derogatory.
Maybe it's not important if it's derogatory or a judgment.
It catches in my mind because sometimes I do feel like I am burning daylight. Then again it's one of those therapy statements not to compare oneself to others.
Whats wrong with burning daylight. I almost think if someone is making a lot of money, owns a lot of toys that could justify "burning daylight". Whats the point of anybodies time.
This is a pointless inquiry.
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was watching a video that someone posted of her Nar mom being a nut. This advert came up. It kind of reminds me of some bogus dating secrets, weight loss secrets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz4FTle_R_8 ..... didn't go there
"reading about reactive attachment disorder" the list of symptoms is almost too long and varied to be well defined
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interest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWY05MadRJk
after watching this vid it reminds me the reason why we put space between us and our family members is/was because we were "stuck in the group dynamic"
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Will watch these later, G, I have a list of things I want to watch but keep nodding off when I sit down lol x
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Have reached maximum inertia. all the things I think I might do if I had the time I am not doing, mainly sleeping a lot. I'm sorta okay with this for the moment.
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I think it's okay to be okay with it, G. I think sometimes all the 'stuff' can really wipe us out, even if we don't feel like it's getting too much. So I think it's okay to hide under the duvet sometimes and just say "I surrender!". Just keep posting here so we know you're alright, though xx
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Hey Boat,
About constant sleeping, just a thought.
I did that for very long stretches and it was a symptom of depression.
I didn't get help, I didn't get Rx, I just slept.
Then again, I have a subvariant of SAD that triggers a lot of sleepiness in spring.
Hope that's not the case for you or if it is, you'll intervene before it sets in strong.
Hugs
Hops
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No. Maybe this is an opportunity to "step out of the momentum of my life". Why is it that we all must keep on running with the herd.
Taking a break from bullshit is therapeutic. :)
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I'm glad, Boat.
Better a chance to rest and think and BE.
hugs
Hops
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It absolutely IS therapeutic G! Soon enough, you'll start to navigate back into exploring opportunities.
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planned girls night out with friends but I don't wanna figure out what to wear, I guess I will feel better if I just do it and go
I've cleaned out THREE purses and hand washed them!! yay for me. AND I figured out what to wear. Still had receipts from 2018 in there :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvTDJSWSoLA
It's comedy but you will understand WHY I posted it here (I think).
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planned girls night out with friends but I don't wanna figure out what to wear, I guess I will feel better if I just do it and go
I've cleaned out THREE purses and hand washed them!! yay for me. AND I figured out what to wear. Still had receipts from 2018 in there :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvTDJSWSoLA
It's comedy but you will understand WHY I posted it here (I think).
Yay, well done, G! Hand washing as well, I'm impressed :) Always amazing what we can find in the bottom of bags or in coat pockets - exciting when it's a bit of money ;) Have Have added the clip to my list of things to watch :) xx
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Serious if your mother was crazy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhop_-3HgSc&list=RD_2EbRZKQ8hU&index=10
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the little get-together with coworkers was good I think, I picked a decent open air restaurant , there were 4 of us, one of them was really late and got lost, I knew she would be late though it was predictable, one of them didn't show up at all c'est la vie
its worth it to get together definitely there is a lot of back and forth chit chat to get it all together
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That sounds like a nice evening, G, I get what you mean about the back and forth, sometimes getting more than one person in the same place at the same time can feel like hard work! But it's great when it happens, I'm glad you had a good time :) xx
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Been thinking about 2's Reciprocal relationship post after I met up with an ex coworker/friend yesterday. I think maybe I am going to not plan any more get togethers with her, if she wants to I will leave it up to her. I would like to meet some NEW people at the same time I just don't have the energy or outgoingness to go to meetup groups.
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Been thinking about 2's Reciprocal relationship post after I met up with an ex coworker/friend yesterday. I think maybe I am going to not plan any more get togethers with her, if she wants to I will leave it up to her. I would like to meet some NEW people at the same time I just don't have the energy or outgoingness to go to meetup groups.
I understand the lack of energy when it comes to groups, G, I've been really lucky that these things I've done have gone well because generally I find groups draining and I avoid them. It does get difficult to meet people, I think, especially if you don't have the energy or inclination to socialise a lot. Sometimes I think we should all have badges to explain what we want "I'm happy to chat to you for ten minutes to see if you're a nice person but don't come near me if you just want to talk about yourself all the time" :) It would make it easier to filter people out lol xx
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So what's new in your world G?
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Heyo, every thread on here says "New" since I'm random about coming on here.
Only the most mundane. I woke up at 7 AM! I walked to get a cup of coffee. I feel like I have things to write. Not new things. I also feel very unenergetic and bogged down maybe that is just natural. Its a sign of boredom perhaps. bored with old issues.
To sum it up feeling a bit sad and lonely I guess.
Got glasses, had a pair that I never wore many years ago, now maybe I really need them. The old prescription I think was only for one eye, this is for both eyes so it's more balanced maybe. Of course my eyes hurt because of too much screen time. Not enjoying books so much at the moment. Surfing the net. The glasses were sitting and waiting for me to pick them up at the optometrist office for quite a few weeks, I had already paid I almost just didn't care anymore. But now I have them at least they aren't purple this time. I don't feel like ripping them off my face at least.
Sleep schedule is so messed up from my lack of daily grind that I was awake around 5:30 a couple days ago and decided to go for a morning walk, it was nice, quiet. I realized that I hadn't seen a lot of this neighborhood, a coyote slinked by too.
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The early morning walk sounds nice, G, I love being out when most other people aren't, it's such a different world when it's quiet :) Coyote as well! Are they quite used to people or do they scurry away? We have a lot of urban foxes here who are very bold; they'll go as far as coming in people's houses sometimes. Squirrels in big parks are quite tame as well and will often eat out of people's hands (whether they want them to or not!). We're near the sea so the seagulls are around constantly and will steal food from people as they move it from their hand to their mouth. I saw a lady put her pastie on the roof of her car while she rummaged in her bag for her keys and a very happy seagull swooped down and helped himself :) Lol x
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G--
I hope you find some good company soon, and in the meantimes, you plugging into nature every day (early morning is heaven) is such a wise thing to do. Sometimes just walking and walking calms pain and refreshes mind.
Hugs
Hops
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The coyotes scurry away at a pace that is like a sarcastic jaunt, I don't believe they are very fearful animals. I mean for the most part they stay away unless you are sitting quietly in a park for a while and they sometimes will sneak up on you either because they think people have food or might be food?
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Sigh. Marie Kondo.
One drawer in my kitchen was perfect then I cleaned out the upper cabinets. Apparently I did not give the upper cabinet re-do enough thought because I put the coffee behind the soysauce. Man I still need coffee. This morning I tipped the soysauce bottle over onto the counter and it exploded when it hit the counter, soysauce waterfalled down into my perfect drawer. Shot soysauce and tiny slivers of glass all over my pants. Tired. I have a measuring tape near by. It created a soysauce glass mess that reached a radius of six feet. It's the kind of thing that makes a person seethe inside. I know it's stupid but all I want is an entry area that people can walk into and it doesn't look like I'm a crazy slob. But you know what against Marie-Kondo-ish process I kept soysauce packets, YES I HAVE CONDIMENT packets in my perfect drawer. So when I go to microwave a paper plate of frozen vegetables, put soysauce on it and call it lunch I am prepared.
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I will silently scream for you, Gboat!
One of those random attacks of bad luck that really make you grit your teeth.
I have a charming habit of flailing my arm out and knocking water glasses off my nightstand in my sleep. Lost count of the times I've had to stumble around, picking up little splinters, trying to soak it all up with a bath towel in the middle of the night. A lot simpler than a six-foot soy sauce planet, though.
This was not the universe commenting negatively upon you. Promise. Just shit happening.
Hope it's all cleaned up by now and you're feeling philosophical. BTW, loved your post about the coyotes and glad they didn't eat you!
Hugs and sleep well,
Hops
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Heh Hops. Yeah my life is pretty uneventful. I've vacummed about six times and I still see little slivers of glass. It's no longer a virgin floor. Oh well.
So I have this book that I finally got from the library "Will I Ever Be Good Enough?" Karyl McBride
It has been sitting there for a few days untouched I don't know why, I'm lazy I guess, mind is not turned on in general right now.
Today thumbed through it though, it looks pretty "validating" from what little bits I read.
There is something about a book that just addresses this issue which is nice. For some reason I've always felt the issue of having a Narcissistic was like enigmatic? Cloudy, hard to define, hard to put a finger on. Something that you can't talk to most people about. Something that maybe deserves more attention than what I have given. In the past I think I struggled to figure out "what was wrong with me" etc. Struggled with how to put space between me and my relatives and felt bad for it. Focused on the relationship with family members. Didn't focus on my understanding of self or my relationship with myself.
The title of the book Will I Ever Be Good Enough doesn't quite seem like it fits me but inside the book the content does fit me. I'm definitely going to read through this.
Some other woman who got this book from the library has underlined certain things and checked certain boxes in the book with a pencil.
I mean the concepts aren't new to me now but maybe I still need to dive into it. For one thing I feel like I have given up on a lot of aspects of my life. I'm not sure that really has all to do with Narcissistic mothers.
Maybe I don't care about my relationship with my mother anymore. We are both OLD. Honestly though I do need to work on myself. Oh god the world of self-help books. To think that reading a book is going to help it's kinda comical. I guess at a minimum it can help a person become more aware of their thought patterns. I will give it that much.
Well I'm going to walk to the store and get myself some reading snacks. It's funny there are lots of reading snack lists on the internet. I guess it's part of reading enjoyment.
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In your honor, G, I flung another big glass of my nightstand today!
Fortunately, this time it was empty so I only had the broken glass to clean up, instead of a mix of glass splinters and water.
I actually paused to think (imagine!). Occured to me I have one of those fancy water bottles that's not very big, and has a rubbery top on it that you twist shut. DUHHHH. Should have been using it on nightstand all along! But I'm glad the idea came. Hope I never have to do that joyless job again in the middle of the night.
I loved that book...one of the best for digging into low self-esteem I've ever read. I've personally been a big fan of GOOD self-help books. Quite a few have changed my life.
Good on you for doing that for yourself! May it pay off long term. With practice it will! I read a LOT of them and the positivity did keep piling up, generating hope.
Hugs
Hops
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So I've been eating Leibniz butter biscuits, they seem to have less sugar than yoghurt and about the same amount of fat. And I've been eating popcorn and cucumbers. Spending too much time on the sofa really. Getting into this book, the content seems very familiar at this point. No major revelations although sometimes there is a tidbit here and there that is nice to read. Of course there are things that I just won't agree with. End of page 13 author says "I believe almost all mothers harbor good intentions toward their daughters". And I just think well I guess she covered herself by saying "almost all". Part of me wants to say my mother is a piece of shit. It feels wrong writing that it really does. Maybe it would be healthier for me though if I see her that way. One wonders.
My mother frequently seems like she has two personalities, the social polite one and then the nasty one she doesn't show to just anybody.
For some reason she feels like she has to keep in touch with me. I'm not sure why she even bothers, I think it's her back up insurance plan. I'm "the royal little bitch" she think is going to drive her to her appointments when her husband dies or something. You know maybe it won't come to that, maybe she will pass away in her sleep, maybe she will just end up somewhere, maybe her rich brother and sister will figure something out for her. I really do feel some kind of weird stress about what I owe to my parents. I mean what if I died they would be on their own anyways. It's not as if I determine anything that happens to them. Old age was going to come to them no matter what. If I was born or not they were going to get old and by now they should have already figured out they couldn't really depend on me. I mean if I could figure out I couldn't depend on them, they also could figure out they can't depend on me. I guess.
Even though I have given up on her a while ago. I still feel like I haven't realistically defined what she means to me.
I'm just going to keep reading this book. I have the feeling the author probably read this message board as part of her research lol.
I do wonder why can people hate politicians, the pope, a celebrity. But I can't say to myself my mother is a piece of shit. I guess when all is said and done I just need to let go even more. Maybe I still need more distance. I don't even know where I am going with this. Maybe I really need to journal something about a definition, because really if your mother isn't a mother that makes them just another person. Another person but not a mother. A parent by definition but a very vague definition. I mean what if I don't visit her again. Really the last few times I have visited her are few and far between and each time she really does look older. It's creepy seeing your parents age even if they are a piece of shit. I mean time is going to pass regardless of what I do or don't do. Time really does seem like it flys by.
I'm not saying I harbor massive resentment or massive anger anymore. A little bit at least sure. It's just maybe I haven't judged her harshly enough. It's more like I have just ignored what didn't exist. In the end if I were to give it a more mature name than piece of shit maybe I would say conartist. Just a long term con.
I'm just writing to myself here. Just like to write it out even if I'm only repeating the same thing over and over.
To maintain peace with them one has to keep on going along with them on some level. And I guess people do this all the time, they go along or play along with something. I guess it's just the power dynamics of life. It's like going along with an employer when really all you want to do is give the finger and walk away.
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When I visited my mother few months ago she got a phone call from a family friend. My grandfather's old girlfriend of sorts who had been pretty much life long friends with my grandfather. I hadn't seen her since I was a kid. My mother told this family friend that I was their visiting her (I was with my mother) (family friend called from out of state). The family friend sounded so excited to say hi to me, she is in her 90's poor thing. My mother put her on speaker phone for a moment, I said hi to her on speaker phone. We greeted for less than a minute as my mother had something more to carry on the conversation. The thing is that family friend was more excited to say hi to me than my mother has ever been in my entire life. The only way I can really understand how foul my relationship is with my mother is when it can be compared to something else.
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So I always thought the idea of Narcissistic supply was more or less a person receiving attention. The stereotype of the celebrity with cameras on them or whatever. Though I came across something that suggested inflicting pain on others is some type of Narcissistic supply. Or that just getting a certain type of negative emotional reaction is supply to the narcissist. It's a new idea to me really. It's interesting I never really thought about it that way before, it's just way more weird and complicated.
It does make me wonder how and why did humans get such complicated personality types. I guess maybe they are acting out of instinct like any other animal. I want to think it's pretty dark and sinister. Power and control issues seem to explain extreme abuse and neglect pretty well. It's just weird to think a person's emotional instinct could lead to really dark behavior. I don't know I am rambling.
Narcissism seems so intentional though.
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I think the dark is real, G.
Certainly the N personality disorder is, and it's real in them but expresses to different degrees. My Nmother's came out in endless gobbling demand to be listened to nonstop AND in a huge amount of emotional manipulation. But she would never do something consciously cruel or sadistic and had a social conscience and was a terrific teacher of children. They gave her supply by responding to her outgoing charm, and she was the best reading teacher anywhere.
What modified my mother's Nness, honestly, was her Christianity. In loooong hindsight, I see that her religion helped her be "the best N she could be" in the sense that whatever was broken in her, not just by her Ngenes but by a very hard, poor childhood with sexual abuse in the home...her faith gave her a bit of hope and also "rules." She followed them. Never a moment's unfaithfulness to my Dad and she was a very responsible parent.
Ns come in all sorts of packages and with huge variations.
My biggest healing lesson was learning that LIGHT is as real in this world as darkness. And that I could actively seek it out, repeatedly. I also learned that if I DIDN'T actively seek it out, the dark would get bigger.
Hence: Self-help books. Therapy. Being here. All of those for years. It's made all the difference.
love
Hops
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Yeah N's do come in lots of variations. It could have been worse according to this book one mother sold her daughter for $300.00 to the extreme end of the spectrum I guess.
As I'm working my way through this book it points out the different manifestations of Narcissistic mothers both the overbearing and ignoring. Definitely my mother was the ignoring type to the extreme. I guess I'm glad she doesn't meddle in my life too much.
My father was more the non-stop talker about himself and my grandfather too for that matter. My mother would listen to her father talk for hours. Not sure if it's an age and lonliness thing or Narcissism. I guess anybody talking too much is taking up all the air in the room and suffocating the other.
My reason for reading this book I guess is still that I feel very much unconnected from family and that maybe I do have other gaps in my life. I fall into more of the "loner" type - page 119.
I have read elsewhere about Narcissistic disgarding. I think that I've been going through some disgarding cycle with my mother and when I spoke with my father him as well for many years. If I'm honest maybe I even do it to other people. Discarding.
It's like I'm looking through a freaking microscope breaking it all down over and over. It almost feels absurd but necessary.
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You know I don't really identify with the concept of trying to please my mother and "being good enough". I do however have some sort of longing to have real conversations with a family member which wont happen. My mother generally ignores me but insists on stringing me along, she has to keep in touch. Maybe I should write down a fake script for whenever I communicate with her. To remind myself how fake and topical we are. Instead of thinking in any real way maybe I should literally just be like an actress. Maybe it's like a version of no-contact. Just a game of 100% fake contact. It sounds crazy. Maybe I need a constant reminder that it is more or less only a game and nothing more. A script is sort of a non-reaction? Maybe I should force myself to read it from paper each and every single time. She would never even notice. Instead of thinking or process any content or convo, it would just be a canned statement. I guess the reason why it seems helpful to me on some level because it's a non reactive not getting involved, not elaborating, not really responding to content. It's intentional.
We really do lose out with Narcissists, either unknowingly participating in their games or knowingly playing their games.
I do project something on to her. I project "she is aware, she is a smart person, she has to know what is going on, maybe she cares". I just shouldn't give a flip. I think maybe it would be good for me to have a self mantra. Sort of like people who are already prepared for solicitors at the door.
A preface to every interaction with her. tell myself "This is bogus" and then read my script to her which is really "I'm okay" "Yes I'm feeling better" "No I didn't notice the advertisement at the grocery store". "Have a good day".
The horrible thing is that I think I have always been trying to have a real conversation with her. I don't think I ever fully quit.
On some level I think I am also been envious that she has conversations with other people, her neighbors, her sister. Perhaps they are all tinted with Narcissism.
I don't think my mother has ever been jealous of me like some daughters experience. She definitely has a real problem with me.
My mother also didn't treat my brother better than me, she ignored both of us. She does seem to treat her siblings better than she treated my brother and I. She has gone out of her way to help her sister and her sister's daughter. Which was hard to understand. Her sister, my aunt was also very quick to say that me and my brother were "screwed up". Somehow it's almost like we got blamed somehow for being "screwed up". It doesn't bother me as much as it used to, I'm older. All I really can do is permanently discard them. There is nothing else to do with them. I can see how it was a mutually acceptable understanding between my aunt and my mother to include my aunt's daughter but not me. My aunt is one of those people who is very openly judgemental about anyone she sees as beneath her and it very much comes down to wealth, it works for my aunt to look down on me and that also works for my mother as well. It works for them. My mother is very aware of what is happening in the life of my aunt's daughter. The dynamic does seem clear from a Narcissistic imbalance. One time my mother was telling me how she had to help with a birthday party for her niece. I felt shocked thinking wow that is unlike my mother. In reality other people get a different person with her. She is not the same person to me as she is to them. I don't have to explain that to any relative at any point. I feel like someday my aunt is going to tell me how I am so wrong about my mother. How I have to help her out etc. In my mind that is the scene that plays out. My aunt telling me I am fucked up and selfish for not giving some sort of time and energy to my mother. Maybe it won't play out that way. Who knows, who cares. It's just I need the scene to get out of my head I guess.
Something has vaguely dragged on for years even with ongoing attrition.
Best fake scripts you use on Nars anybody?
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I can see how my mother's plight may have been her trying to be some "good girl" and never being good enough. She clearly had some messed up relation to her own mother (my grandmother of course). Not something she has defined clearly, I only know my grandmother was a drinking party type. Some articles etc. seem to say Nars are deserving of our sympathy. Perhaps they are deserving of paid sympathy if they go sit in a therapist's office for sympathy. I don't think I should have much sympathy or anything for her as it seems like just another catch. Page 70 & 71 in this book have a little visual diagram of hierarchy. Its helpful somehow to see it.
Maybe daughters of Nars are maladaptive and maybe there are individuation issues but in some ways aren't we also more of an individual on some level because we grow up alone more or less. One wonders.
I am wondering what else I need to do for myself, maybe be more proactive. Maybe I am self-sabotaging. I often do tell myself on a daily basis, I feel old, I look old, I am aging, it's too late. I mean to be frank there is truth to it. We run out of time in life. At the same time it's probably not the most productive Self-Talk. I mean what am I really saying to myself. It's kind of a fear of running out of time to figure things out, make things better or something. I don't know. Regret or losses. Accepting losses. At a certain point one can tell oneself "there is still time there is still time, to get sorted out". Then at some point in time it just hits wow, look at the past decade and how much I didn't sort out. I mean life sweeps us up carries us on, we just keep living. There have been times when I was just burnt out on thinking about Narcissism.
Okay I am writing a lot here. I'm just trying to work through this book. I decided to read it so I'm doing it.
pg 72--" as she makes natural, resonable demands on her mother, who is unable to meet them, the mother becomes resentful and threatened, and projects her inadequacies onto the daughter...."
I've always felt that any demand was too much, one really learns to be undemanding I think. I'm not really sure that my mother projected her inadequacies onto me.
I can see why she ignores me there isn't anything in it for her. I'm an inconvenient aftermath of a marriage/divorce between two emotionally needy N's. She has gone out of her way to point out that her current marriage is the happiest time of her entire life. Really the only reason she has insisted on keeping in touch with me was probably she was reporting her "good daughter" activities to her mother and spouse (my grandmother). Who is now dead.
So maybe there will be less contact, maybe it will just trail off. And zero effort on my part at all.
Where there is no real relationship. OR a messed up one- however one wants to define interactions with N's. Maybe it's not about how we relate to the N person. Maybe it's really about how we RELATE to the relationship. It sounds like mumbo jumbo psychobabble. But really the N relationship is already set. They dynamic is just there it is what it is. It's probably more conflict than it's worth to go no contact etc. So maybe it is a form of taking a step back and relating to the relationship. Knowing that it's fake, seeing it as such, always keeping that in mind. Why give it any more significance than waving at the mailman (which people don't do anymore wave at mailmen) but anyhow.
In these self help books there is this phrasing of how Ns are not "able", "capable" of supporting their daughters, of being good role models etc., being loving parents.... It's been hard for me to fully believe this. Some part of me just thinks, it's not that they can't it's more that they don't want to. I've always thought it seemed like there was more choice involved than a full on brain defect against love. Isn't that what these books are basically saying but with different words. "You have a brain defect and you can't love your children" sounds like a pretty serious diagnosis. Or is it really that they can't love anybody. Or is it selective. Is maternal Narcissism really a case of a mother can not love her daughter because of this whole thing about the mother sees the daughter as an extension of herself... I don't fully get this. It sounds esoteric. What if N's don't have brain defects what if they really are just crap people and nobody wants to accept that it's possible to just be crap.
I mean I definitely think too much is put onto the shoulders of mothers. I do. I'm not a parent I don't know how hard it is or isn't. Defintely my FOO left me with an "emotional legacy" that was very confusing for me in my 20's. Who knows what it did to me in my 30's. Here I am writing and writing and wondering in my 40's am I still needing to overcome something. If so why the heck haven't I figured it out by now.
There are so many factors that feed into a person's life. Def a lot of time spent on wondering, what is wrong with me, what is wrong with them, who am I, who the hell are they, where am I going, how did I end up here.
I don't like self help it seems like just another product. I guess at some point I feel like I maxed out on it. I don't even want to read this book but I'm going to. Maybe I'm lazy.
Really DON'T want to think about it anymore. Over analyzing. OCDing. Reading articles, expert opinions. Wouldn't it be nice to just be OKAY. To just get on with it. No hangups. Maybe I'm tired and bored of self reflection then again maybe I am just lazy lazy lazy.
I'm going to be honest self reflection does make me feel like I am thinking in some insane OCD sort of way.
okay I am angry and tired and I should probably just sleep now, N families really do leave some sort of tangled up mess, but am I REALLY still affected by it, maybe I just have short comings all my own that have NOTHING to do with my FOO, how would I know the difference, regardless at this point no matter where or how it came to be any short coming I have is 100% mine now gee
I just feel like I have been slogging along like a zombie mainly at work and in life maybe. Maybe my mental acuity has naturally declined, maybe I'm bored, maybe I have way more deep seated emotional problems that are impacting me, it really just feels like the culmination of doing nothing about it? I don't know.
Analyzing is work it gets to a point where whatever was interesting at first about it wears off and then it's just exhausting. And who isn't analyzing, normal people the ones just living and enjoying their lives. And the N's they are not thinking too hard about ANY of this because they don't care and they got what they wanted. Is anybody else in my neighborhood reflecting on what their mother did or did not do many years ago... probably not. maybe I don't know
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I love hearing your response to this book, G.
You are connecting with something, interrograting it, finding yourself in parts of it, finding your mother or relationship description in parts of it.
This very process, even though it may feel like all questions with no firm answers yet, is what can change your life, I believe.
Just in broad strokes, I heard:
grief (how deeply you've yearned for a meaningful connection with her)
coping ("gray rock" contact, letting go of hope reality will be otherwise)
interrogating (she's withholding just from me? is Nism fixed? why can't it be more clear?)
creativity
frustration (OCDing on book, hard to stop)
I can relate to ALL of it. I was like a "sock monkey" when young. Eventually I learned that affection and appreciation, those beautiful motherly things I yearned for, were going to have to come from other sources for me. And that I learned I would first have to practice being affectionate and appreciative toward myself. When I genuinely learned to like myself (and release the habit of low self-esteem that comes from a mother who is organically incapable of connecting with a child's need for the sort of love that inspires and comforts the child, gives him/her confidence) -- even though I too was a loner for a long time, seeking out isolated jobs, places to live....eventually the practice of loving-kindness toward myself made it easy and fun (as opposed to hard and terrifying) to risk connecting with others.
Good relationships, bad relationships, meh relationships. I had a lot. And they gradually added up to knowing how.
Community stuff helped me enormously. For me, the UU church filled the gap. It does (or wherever) begin to feel like family, when you go sit there week after week after week. You do become part of a community that can be there for you.And you can join in on being there for someone else from time to time so you feel good about the balance.
Whatever "formula" we each figure out, as individuals, that makes our lives work better and our hearts hurt less, is the winning one.
I love that you're in your "self lab", G....creating, listening, asking yourself things. If books stimulate that, why not? When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron was a huge eye-opener for me....
Hugs
Hops
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There is always a lot of questions and conflicting info it seems. In this book I'm to the section "How Narcissistic Mothering Affects your Entire Life". Just absorbing this title requires some sort of question because there is also this thing of who takes responsibility for what. I guess a person can decide to take responsibility but also know that we do have inherited problems I guess that we ourselves didn't create but have to cope with. Ns often say or insinuate we are at fault. You know how there is all so the messaging that "we are responsible for our own lives nobody else is". I guess affecting and responsibility are two different things. I just feel like I'm not even allowed to acknowledge that maybe N Mothering does effect my entire life.
Probably I'm not an over-acheiver. I sort of wish I was it's seems like the only positive mess up that comes out of N parenting.
~~~ pg 91 "it is time to take an inventory of whether or not your activities fit your own value system (rather than your mother's or your internalized critic" ........ K. McBridde from the book
I mean how many people sit down and ask themselves what their value system is ever? So much activity is auto pilot or survival. Combo zombie auto survival pilot.
Not valued, not acknowledged never celebrated this is what my N did. I can't say that she critizied me like this book points out. My issue isn't so much *not being good enough* .. The phrase that I would say strikes a chord with me instead is *not being important to anybody*. Yes that is definitely a thing for me. Maybe it impacts how I interact with people. idk
On some level what N's did to us, we continue to do to ourself according to this book. I guess which makes sense.
I'm definitely more of a "Whats the Use?" so called self-sabotaging daughter type. I guess. I did take anger out on myself though I'm not sure it seems 100% self sabotage. Yeah I don't think I fit the book personality categories clearly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xvgLh-dc3E
lots of the anecdotes from women who are self-sabotaging or under achieving say they were diagnosed with depression at some point & that they just didn't DO the things they wanted to do.
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There are loads of people who are not successful in life. I mean they make the world go round by working every job nobody else wants to do. It's really hard to pinpoint something like this and say Oh yeah this is definitely a psychological/emotional N family legacy.
How highly stressed out we must all be at times. It's like the general rule is to be anxious or depressed in general as a baseline and then ADD some other run of the mill daily stress ON TOP.
I think I was stressed out as a kid. To think for some kids the main stress they have is when their parents tell them it's bedtime. It's really unfair. Or a makes one sad knowing things might have been different.
The first half of the book I'm reading it's interesting, validating, reminder of things I've read before more or less. The actual self-help part of the book in my mind is going to be rather barfy. I'm just annoyed by it because I think people and problems are too complicated for someone to write some chapters about how to change. I really think a lot of people don't change and for good reasons. Also the self-help formats. There is almost a self help book for everything which is kinda weird in itself.
When the author writes: but there is Hope! I think gee, that sounds phony and formulaic. Rolls eyes. But I'm going to read it.
If I was going to write a self-help book I would disguise it as a non-self help book. Informational. Because selling hope is like selling snake oil, selling a political idea.
I reject the idea that it's a solvable problem in some cases, def not simple to solve in any case. You really don't get things back that you have lost a lot of times.
Yah this is going to be BS, a paper collage is coming up. now I rememeber why I got burnt out on self help books
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Sometimes reading these books reminds me of things like issues with emotional range. It's something that I forget about Ns how little display of emotion they have all around. Or natural emotions. Or whatever its supposed to be. One wonders really what emotions they should be having at any particular time.
I would say I've been mostly tired and fed up with small doses of humor. When I read these sort of books I wonder how there is any way I could end up NOT being an N myself.
It's interesting to take a look and say well maybe I am self sabotaging, certainly my brother did. So it's not too far fetched to believe that I am too. Though in the end I think books like this sometimes make me feel worse because I can end up saying well what if the N FOO affected every aspect of my life and I'm a self-sabotaging N. Big Sigh.
Something I can say for sure is I don't make a lot of changes to my life. I try to cling to status quo desperately. There really are a lot of GOOD things about status quo. It's like okay my head is just above whater WELL lets keep it right there forever.
I also don't psychologically have the FOO out of my head. Those f'ers are still in there.
OKAY so here is part of my issue with this book. It has a page with bullet points of so called "recovery steps". To me it comes across as something made-up. Like one individual pulled this out of thin air for the sake of writing a book, running a business. Perhaps it's simply something I don't know about. BUTTTT the thing is I haven't heard of massive amounts of scientific research done on recovery steps? I mean there must be. It must be out there because there are so many freaking things that people are trying to recover from. Research is usually done on medications, behaviors, muscles. Like ncbi there is so much info about biology. There seems to be more interest in researching things under a microscope. I really don't know as I don't work in that biz. I mean in this book there are about 50 double sided pages of recovery jargon and anecdotes. For references on the recovery section of the book she doesn't refer to research experiments. The references are movies, novels and other self help books. Can you reference a self help book as a scientific source... hahahah boof
I'm going to read it but I hate it. I resent how easy and accessible they make it seem. I just wish so called experts would bring more evidence and science, proof of something. In the end it mostly sounds like someone telling you "just smile and be positive" these five words are all you need to get through this life. It's the prescribed reframing that I find barfy. Long time ago I dutifully read the book titled "Feeling Good" David Burns. I think a therapist suggested it, man was it NOT helpful for me. It was very topical it was too much work and no results. At the time the thing that worked for me was exercise. Exercise was the working crutch.
A lot of skepticism is warranted because this all comes out of an industry that thought prozac was fantastic. Prozac just being a legal low grade lame cover up drug. I'm just going to assume I'm a Narcissist for now. I figure it's got to be similar to schizophrenic people not knowing they are.
Watched a few documentaries about Ayahuasca which make me wonder what those participants are trying to recover from exactly. Like what if they are all adult children of Nar FOO BS. Because what drives a person to that extreme. I'm not into it. I guess it's cathartic, I will give it that much. It does seem obvious that people who would do that are some type of lost and some type of seeking. If there was an accessible science based real recovery process then why aren't more people doing it.. the other side of it are people who leave their lives behind to go puke up drugs in the jungle or in someone's backyard I guess and say that it's a spiritual journey. You know funny enough it's called Mother. Mother Ayahuasca.
Pg 112 of this book says that people have a "deep sense of intelligent intution" That "We do know. We just don't listen". The author is talking about daugters of N's but the same would have to be true for N's themselves. Basically maybe they do know but they don't care enough to listen. And I don't understand where they deserve any sympathy. I guess it doesn't matter anymore. Everybody is old. Nobody can really say much about my mother to me anymore, from other family members they would say she was some kind of saint. I just don't see what she did. She always claimed she was doing so much. Mostly I saw her watch TV and drink wine and hang out exclusively with her man of choice who always supported her in hating me and my brother.
I just wonder if it would be healthier for me to go no-contact. There is something to be said for out of sight out of mind. No contact really isn't some kind of guarantee that I am going to become a better person or fix myself. Do things for myself that I need to. Be more active feel less inertia. I guess no contact reinforces the feeling and reality of separation. But it's kind of symbolic too. It's like a message to the self "hey self we are really REALLY moving on".
What if most of our reasonable expectations are also unrealistic not just about family but about life in genral. Isn't that part of the problem of N FOO it's a real process to work out what is unrealistic. And N magical thinking and denial. You know not just unrealistic, impossible. Isn't that real cause for not giving a rip if most of ones reasonable expections are impossible. I guess it's something worth looking at. What really is possible and what isn't. But if something is impossible it also makes it unreasonable. I know I sound nuts but it makes sense to me to write this out.
On page 135 she finally says there is no cure. That would be a good thing to put at the start of the book just to get an understanding of what she is proposing but then people might not buy the book. God I am such a snot.
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Just totally ranting this is complete garbage that I think about and cycle through my head. I'm also not convinced that having "sick" relationships is always so bad. I don't mean in terms of maintaining with the N FOO. I mean this book basically says we are either co-dependent OR dependent or osscilate between. Most relationships I think are some version of this. It's just another spectrum thing, like people who are considered functioning alchoholics, people are functioning codependents/dependents. Everywhere I look I see couples and I say to myself if it wasn't for the money in it that situation would fall apart, one person would leave and look for a new host like some kind of parasite. In all phases of life it looks more like survival is more important than being "healthy". I know my words are so terrible, warped or not sometimes I think about these things. I think a lot of people pretend it's not about the money to be socially correct. Okay maybe I am looking at bad examples. Even if I look outside my FOO. I see my nice neighbor who is married to a man who looks much older than her and she eyeballs guys running by, talks about how sexy other women's husbands are. She married an old dude for security-(codependency). My other next door neighbor I can hear him talking to his wife sometimes like she is a dog, I think they are from Pakistan or something, gee lucky her but really why does she put up with it... it's the money, they have a big house so (codependency). It is much easier to say that if someone looks successful they are "healthy" and if someone does not look successful they are "not healthy". We sort of love to hate people with problems, socially, I mean like the more problems a person has the more acceptable and deserving of hate they are, or the more okay it is. A person will only ever be called emotionally unhealthy if they are causing a problem for someone.
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pg. 142 1) Do I continue to wish and hope that my mother will be different each time I talk to her?
For a long time I did wish. I think I quit wishing. In an effort just to get along and converse I think I get lulled back into the ROUTINE, not wishing but just playing along with it to GET ALONG. I mean if I don't play along or get along at the most rudimentary level then I'm a bitch basically is how that works out. Thinking about her too much really in the process of reading this book. It's funny for a while I look at her and go man she is SCREWED UP, then I look at myself and think man I AM SCREWED UP. Pretty much I'm just as screwed up as she is if not more so. It's so sick really.
2) Do I continue to have expections of my mother?
Yes I expect her to be the normal F'ing person she pretends to be. ... my bad
3) Have I accepted my mother for who she is? The Narcissist in me doesn't care who the fuck she is. LOL Because I think disregard deserves disregard. I don't know who she is. Some imposter. I accept that she is broken.
4) Am I expecting someone else to meet my needs? I don't think so I'm pretty used to this.
5) Nope to this question. I don't even bother.
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I'm too tired to dive alllll the way in, but I don't think your ranting is garbage, G.
I think it has a purpose. There's energy in it. And insight.
I don't think you have to buy every line or come to over-optimistic conclusions to benefit from the general notion that new comprehension comes in stages or waves, change if not outright transformation is possible throughout life if you want it, etc.
You don't have to drink all the Kool-Aid, just a bit here and there from various pitchers.
I think you're asking valuable questions and sifting through what's useful and discarding what's not. As for me and books I turned to, about a quarter of them taught me life-changing ideas. Another quarter were dreck. And the remaining half weren't a waste of time even if pedestrian, because they all were like arrows, keeping me in the direction of not dying to myself, not giving up.
That's all. I used to tell folks I had a clever furniture idea: the Self-Help Book Nightstand. It'd be constructed around a fiberboard frame, with used SHBook covers decoupaged all over the entire thing: back, sides and top. (I suppose one could call it a She-Stand...ironically.)
I believed and still do that some women with a sense of humor would crack up and buy one. It'd be colorful and whimsical. You have a LOT of company, reading those books in solitude. The single, the lonely single, the lonely married, the children of Ns, the survivors of abuse, the single parents, the .... quiet multitude.
Hugs
Hops
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I know Hops it's all too much. I don't expect anybody to read it really. It just helps me to write it out I guess to the ether.
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So if I was the ignored type instead of the not-good-enough type... does this mean that I have been ignoring myself. That I need to pay more attention to myself. Or am I already totally self absorbed. Or am I self absorbed and not paying attention to myself. Or not absorbed enough, not giving enough energy to my own problems. Probably not giving enough energy to my own problems.
The idea that I am still NOT individuated at this point is shocking? It would mean I've got like the emotionality of a 2 year old. But I'm closer to needing depends and poise pads for adults than I am freaking diapers. I mean I have to scarcastic laugh at this and think a lot of F words to myself.
Listening to a song, wondering what was wrong with Van Morrison after reading the description of the book on Amazon. Book:
"Can You Feel the Silence?: Van Morrison: A New Biography". Apparently he was a troubled musician.
Maybe I don't hate this book about N mothers. This is the thing, I thought that I worked through as much as I possibly could a very long time ago, I got burnt out on it. So I kinda understood it. Coming back to it though I've not really worked through it I guess. maybe a lot of frustration is having to come back to something over and over but also there is misleading info out there. The "Feeling Good" book more or less was a prescription for ignoring anything that wasn't "good or happy" and that just doesn't work. It's ridiculous. More than anything I think the so called bad feelings are the key. they ar there for a reason cuz essentially the book could say "you maybe have a PD & are not individuated that = brain defect" if a person just believes they have a brain defect they will take pills and not look below.
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Tired today. Was laying in bed with my eyes open
I'm done this morning pretty early so when I was hanging and banging Neighbors. I'm still working through the book. definitely one of the underlining I guess it's fears that I have is being alone. What was my food I am alone anyways. in this book their stories of other people who basically feel like they get logged back into a habit with f o o. Lulled. Not logged. I'm just going to talk randomly hair cuz I'm exercising and I'm not really focused. Here. One of the interesting and strong trends that talked about in the book is Mother and Envy their daughters
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so I never really noticed my mother acting like she envied me in any way at all and I kind of doubt it it was sort of not an overtly displayed thingbut in the books there's a list of the things that the mother is commonly Envy their daughters for. When I look at the list I say to myself what gosh I don't have any of those things. Which is kind of interesting in itself. I mean I hate to make it seem like it's more meaningful than it is but what if it is Meaningful. I don't think she's envious she's definitely the opposite of generous I maybe that is tied into that Behavior of withholding. I do Wonder when I should just stop looking at all the Dynamics but you can't help it to think about new things while you're reading and reconsider Behavior s. Using electronic dictation. wish I was sitting next to a river but have a little hard time getting out of the city sometimes. sometimes when I'm really focusing on something and kind of deep into the crazy thought of it all sometimes I feel like something is Shifting you know like my perspective or something. But it's not always permanent. I have a hard time getting to the right kind of mental state sometimes to focus on something I guess it could be for varying reasons. I guess I'm wondering if there is one particular type of mental state one has to be in for all this so-called processing tour 2 work. And it makes me wonder if I'm in a daze the rest of the time. Life is so busy I frequently feel like I'm supposed to be doing something else. Paperwork researching classes. I found a Shady Tree to sit under.
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And sometimes I wonder I'm actually processing something or am I just psyching myself into believing that something has shifted.
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If one isn't slowing down to purposefully so down for reason and if one also isn't taking action got in between space can definitely feel like Zombieland. maybe I just have to go for it and some aspect decide to move forward in my life but give it consideration so it doesn't seem like some big risk I don't know whoever made up that advice about taking risks. Sometimes you want change and you just don't know where to start. I mean if I can actually say a foo has impacted all aspects of my life and I can say we weren't given much of a map. I guess I should say I wasn't given much of a map. or maybe the map I was given didn't make any sense at all. IDK
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What would be three to six real-life changes you'd like to make, G?
Of those, which seems somewhat possible? Even with some help?
Could you start with that?
Hugs
Hops
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Not sure yet Hops. Going to read through the end. Maybe come up with some changes or at least think about it.
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Pg 156-157.... Bring up the idea about mother's having envy for their daughters and projecting self-loathing. I'm wondering if either my N mother didn't do these things or if she did but I didn't realize. Considering my mother was more lacking in regard as opposed to being over involved. Part of the breaking the Orbit. It's still very difficult to pinpoint this even if I settle my mind on it. My mother fills many of the check boxes for NPD so I don't even doubt that anymore. I do sometimes wonder if I'm either making a bigger deal out of it than I should or if I'm minimizing it. There is something there obviously or else I wouldn't be here. I also feel a little embarassed to point so much towards my mother. It really seems that as adults it's a childish thing to do. But I'm just going through this book. My mother didn't really do "specific comments, criticisms, and judgements" at least I didn't hear verbal ones very often. I mean she has randomly come out of the blue and made comments "bitch, miserable". But she keeps them kinda locked down most of the time, they just are disparaging and they come out at random.
Pg 160 ...."self acitivation and assertion".. I'm probably lacking here. Maybe it's for different reasons though maying it's not resulting from N-FOO emotional baggage.
"The ability to soothe painful feelings... comfort self, not wallow in misery, and FIND SOLUTIONS". Again not sure if I'm really messing up on this one.
I feel defeated and uninspired. I feel like life extracts a lot, effort or hardwork with not enough reward. Work at something and get by.
Pg 164 "The internal mother"... this part is really not resonating with me, seems forced, mumbo jumbo, fake. Difficult. Immature, silly. The instructions are to write a list of so called "positive" attributes. I'm pretty sure I've done this before and look how effective it was. It's a weak exercise. Basically affirmations.
https://psychcentral.com/blog/why-positive-affirmations-dont-work/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/embodied-wellness/201704/affirm-or-not-affirm
I googled why affirmations don't work. I guess I'm not the only person who doesn't like them. It just seems like a very weak tool against a deep and convoluted issue. It's horrible because telling someone to do affirmations is no different than saying "Just be more positive". It's almost a platitude.
I will find chocolate in my cabinet. Will I find chocolate in my cabinet. There is chocolate in my cabinet.
The only things in there is what I have put in there.
Well I agree with reviewers that say the book is more about validation not really useful as a healing tool.
The struggle is real.
There is a social group in the city near me children of Ns. There are about 500 members. It's not as if there is a lack of seekers.
After all of this I don't know if I'm suffering an impact and FOO N IS affecting every aspect of my adult life.
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Some therapists seems to be saying we are inhibiting our personal growth by going no contact.
Why can't people continue to grow on their own apart from their crazy family that caused them so much confusion and anguish in the first place.
For F sake, I am kinda tired of the topic in general. Tired of hearing the N word over and over. Therapy Jargon etc. I just want to do something for myself, whatever I need i want to find it and do it and MOVE ON.
I'm afraid of spending too much time on the topic of FOO related stuff I'm also afraid of getting any older before I deal with it. If there is actually something still impacting me. I honestly don't know what to do.
I'm kind of disgusted by the AMOUNT OF TIME I have thought about this stuff. Feel like it's a waste. It's not fun, seems crazy on all levels. I and up just feeling more confused and feel like there is an ever increasing about of things that are wrong with me. Why is this a topic that only gets more and more complicated. I don't even feel like I have to understand every nuance of it. I'm NOT a researcher.
THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT/LEARN ABOUT IT THE MORE I FEEL LIKE IT DEFINES ME. I don't want to be defined by my FOO.
Easier to describe a problem than to FIX a problem. Almost anybody can describe an issue, it's harder to explain it, it's hardest to actually fix it.
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Boat:
Like Doc G says in his book.... we look for a Therapist who can attune to us. Some are good, and some aren't... for us. Some are just harmful individuals, and shouldn't be in practice at all, IME.
I guess I'm saying that you might find a Therapist who clicks with you. I like my new psychotherapist with a Buddhist leaning. She explained..... I can't think my way through my issues, which is what I was doing. I recognize it in your posts... you're trying to wrap your mind around your questions, find answers, and make sense.
My T would say this is the Top Down approach... using your brain to think your way out. You're smart so you identify the questions, and possible answers, but then you're back IN that time, and place, experiencing it like you're there. The brain can't tell the difference between BEING somewhere, and thinking about it. When we dream, we're THERE. When we think about something, we're there. The brain reacts, and the amygdala shuts down access to our higher thinking... the limbic system kicks in. That's our default, and I had to find a way around that.
My T says these things have to be approached "bottom up"... we can't think our way out of it.
We've tried and tried. If we engage the parasympathetic nervous system, and keep the fight/flight response from kicking in, through breathing exercises, allow our brain to finish the work it wants to do. I've been really happy with the results so far... been seeing her about a month.
If it helps to hear my T walk me through what I've read about, and failed at, IME. Our brain is very efficient at filing information where it needs to go. Sometimes, when we're ready, we provide the opportunity, and the brain does what it needs to do. It happens in a moment, and it's done for good. The emotional charge is gone, and we're free to think about it without being triggered, which is our default setting very often.
It takes a little while to build new default settings... 30 - 60 days. We aren't going to get there by repeating what we've always done, IME.
We cultivate today, what we want for tomorrow. I want less anxiety, and more feeling calm, and at home in my body. I cultivate brain pathways that bring me more calm, and I'll do it till the new pathways are as strong as the old pathways. I gotta tell ya, sometimes doing this brings anxiety, bc my comfort zone is now feeling anxious.... PAT... pleasure affect tolerance.... learning to feel OK with feeling OK. Sometimes we aren't aware how comfortable the stress, and anxiety IS in our lives, IME. EMDR is helping, and I can't explain it, but I'm all for feeling better, Boat.
I resonated with your posts. All the research, reading, teasing out facts, and solutions, then finding they aren't helping the way we hoped. The frustration.... judging ourselves, reading more books... I spent a lot of time researching Trauma, and the latest treatments, why they worked, and I just kept missing the connection for myself. Patients found ways to reframe their traumatic events, they found ways to feel empowered, but that wasn't working for me. Why was it worling for them? I think having someone walk us through, who knows how to overcome resistence, and blocks, has been revelation for me, and there have been many Ts that couldn't do that.
You're smart, you're ready to feel better, and resolve things for yourself. I hope you find a way to be super kind, and nurture yourself through this. No judgements at all. Just notice what's there, for yourself, and let it inform you. Let it roll through, and show you what's beneath it.
I like the Kardia app, bc it helps me stay focused on my breathing. It's not easy for me. That blue dot keeps me focused, and I like the sound, and chimes.
Your mom is broken, and she can't do better. If she could, she would. She can't. You deserved better, Boat. You can give yourself the care you deserve.
Lighter
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G,
You've put a lot of thought and also more free expression in your recent posts. I think a wonderful aid to your therapy, if you decide to go for it, would be to print out all you can and provide it to your new T (ideally after you book the appointment and before your first visit...so they can get some understanding of things you wrestle with and also energy and personality).
Just an idea.
Bravo, you.
Hugs
Hops
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Heyo Lighter, the therapist you found sounds great. Now I have to read about PAT haha. (smile) the Top does have it's limits, it's only one tool I guess.
Thanks Hops.
A therapist might be helpful maybe at some point I will.
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Pretty much at the end of the book except a few sections skipped over. For all the complaining maybe it's really just frustration. I think the book reminded me that I am not truly individuated. The book WAS worth reading if just for this fact.
Also when I read sometimes it does activate my imagination in some way. Maybe it's silly new age imagination nonsense, what role does my imagination play, either self deception or some important message. I think yesterday I did get an important message/reminder from myself I guess.
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I can write a lot, think a lot but if I even consider going to a therapist (I looked up a list in my area today) I kind of draw a blank of what I would even say to them. The thought of going to a therapist is also a little embarrassing. I sort of feel like I am living with myself but I don't have one specific issue that is causing me unbearable stress or pain that I would talk to a therapist about. It would be a very long session if the therapist asked me why I was there and I said "I don't know".
I know it sounds absurd. I guess I could talk about my mother. I think I am coming to terms with her I hope, slowly. Oddly she hasn't contacted me for a while probably because she has family visiting her. Or maybe the universe is conspiring in my favor for the moment.
I will be open minded to it if I find a therapist here that I want to see I guess.
So I have a hard time knowing what I can fully say this (whatever issue) is 100 from FOO problems. I don't know how much of me is just my personality or something else. Am I just like naturally more dull with age. Like do I just have a loner tired personality or something. LOL is tired a personality type- I don't think so.
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I can write a lot, think a lot but if I even consider going to a therapist (I looked up a list in my area today) I kind of draw a blank of what I would even say to them. The thought of going to a therapist is also a little embarrassing. I sort of feel like I am living with myself but I don't have one specific issue that is causing me unbearable stress or pain that I would talk to a therapist about. It would be a very long session if the therapist asked me why I was there and I said "I don't know".
I don't think this is weird at all, G, and I KNOW that good Ts are not thrown by the awkwardness of early sessions. For many intelligent, cerebral people who tend to live in their heads and find it hard to express emotion verbally, it's a very common way of thinking about therapy.
Truthfully, that's exactly why I think printed-out selections of your posts would help things start. If a T reads these (even during your session), they will find it a lot easier to ask a couple "starter" questions. They are there to help you. So helping navigate the "stuckness" of not knowing how to begin is part of a good T's response.
You may be critical of your own personality but good Ts know to respond to an individual's personality without judgment, just openness and curiosity. I don't know what you'd find near you, but I've been very helped by a newish wrinkle on talk therapy called AEDP. Here are some videos:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=AEDP
And the book is "It's Not Always Depression."
https://smile.amazon.com/Its-Not-Always-Depression-Authentic-ebook/dp/B0725F8MQY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=it%27s+not+always+depression&qid=1563887247&s=gateway&sr=8-1
Hope it helps...
hugs
Hops
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This is just an off the wall suggestion:
You could simply show up at the first appointment and say that you feel there is something wrong that you'd like to figure out and find solutions for, but you're not entirely sure WHAT'S bothering you. Part of the journey with a good T, is actually finding out what the problem (for you) is. It might not be the things your brain is telling you is the problem; that's just all it can see right now.
That's OK; when we look at landscapes, or a whole time frame of personal history, our attention focuses on one or two things every time we look at it. We can't see the whole thing in detail at one time. Not with senses and brain; sometimes one can FEEL the whole picture or story though.
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Well put, and much less convoluted than my suggestions.
Bravo, Amber.
xxxooo
Hops
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G, it was really interesting to read what you're thinking as you read this book. It was the first one I ever read about Narcissism (and is what ultimately brought me to this board, in a roundabout sort of way). I'd read a book about toxic parenting before that, and had been having counselling for a while before that. Years ago, a friend (who also has a mad family and has been in therapy many times in her life) was talking to me about counselling and self help and she said the problem with it is, you get to a point where you understand your family are mad/unhealthy/dysfunctional - but then what? They're still your family. You still have all your childhood experiences, all the messages you picked up on (directly or indirectly), all the memories (or maybe not if you have forgotten a lot of stuff or blocked it out) and you're still the same person, but now you're aware it's all your mum's fault or it's all because your dad was a drunk or because your nan had an affair and was shamed by the village or whatever else happened. But it doesn't change who you are or what your life is. And I thought she made a really good point. It's like you understand and know a lot, but you still can't do much about it because you can't fix the other people, so you're still stuck with that. It's a bit like knowing what you need to do to fix a car but not being able to get the part.
I've read a lot of self help books over the years and many have given me useful information but none have had any sort of blueprint or formula that I've been able to follow to change my life. I try to avoid toxic or difficult people now, but I still find it very hard to form close relationships and I still find childhood 'stuff' comes up again and again, despite many years of working through it and trying to deal with it. I kind of think now all we can do is what we can do today. I can try to eat well, try to rest, read a bit of a book, sort my boy out - but other than that I don't feel like I can do much else. I don't find affirmations helpful - I do try to think constructively rather than ruminate and focus on negatives all the time but I don't think that's the same thing as affirmations. I think maybe we need to just pick out anything that helps a bit and leave the rest of it behind. Questioning it is always good, in my opinion :) xx
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Hi Garbanzo,
My patients would tell you “If you have insight into your past (e.g. narcissistic family, trauma, loss etc) and you are still alone, you are not much better off. Yes, you know who to avoid and how to “deal with the issues,” but you have nothing different/positive to replace this terrible and all-consuming history.” In this sense, I view insight as a positive side effect of effective therapy (therapy in which the patient/therapist relationship creates a new, positive, and confirming history.) In my 40 plus years of doing this work, I learned that insight, by itself, was not adequate, and brain techniques/strategies/skills, while potentially helpful were not, by themselves, powerful enough to affect the life changes my patients sought. I don’t know if you read my patient Sara Field’s book, The Mathematician and the Teddy Bear (see the link below), but her “epic journey” through therapy provides a wonderful example of what I am talking about.
https://smile.amazon.com/Mathematician-Teddy-Bear-struggle-someone/dp/1514215772/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=The+Mathematician+and+the+Teddy+Bear&qid=1563908647&s=gateway&sr=8-1
Richard
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Thank you for the ideas Lighter, Hops, Skep, Two, Dr. Grossman.
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Heyo Lighter, the therapist you found sounds great. Now I have to read about PAT haha. (smile) the Top does have it's limits, it's only one tool I guess.
A therapist might be helpful maybe at some point I will.
Garbonzo:
Yes, there are many different resources we may avail ourselves to. The TOP, or higher thinking is a great too, but we don't always have access, do we?
Sometimes the stress is so high I NEED to push on walls, walk in cross crawl reverse circles but DO DO DO, bc the energy my body is shooting up through my chest, and out through my limbs... that energy is there to save me, fight, flee, get me through a life or death situation that's no longer happening to me. Thinking about it fools my body into believing it's real, hence, the chemical dump.
When the amygdala's activated, our access to higher thinking shuts down in less than a second, before we notice it, and our biology's been hijacked. There's no thinking our way out of that, though we try and try. At least I do.
The past is just a story, and yes... there's lots of true facts AROUND many of our stories, but it's still just a story, and it's not real NOW.
The past is gone, and what's left is our response and our interpretation of events. Our impressions. If we can shift into being nonjudgmentally present in THIS moment, we can see what's underneath, take it out, and observe it.
The stress is the bodies way of telling us.... we have unfinished business... lets finish this up, and file it.
It takes a good deal of bravery to face the emotions behind the trauma, but if we can calm our mid brains down, unhook the alarm bells of lower brain, we have a chance to build new associations. Most of the time we're doing our best, in the past, and there are good reasons for everything we do. We can see reasons why everyone did what they've done, if we really pay attention.
What is it you want more of, Boat?
Your T will ask you questions like....
What's going on for you today? Right now? Inside your chest? How do you feel? Where do you feelt that in your body?
You'll respond with exactly what comes to mind.... you feel tight, or sad, or you're holding your breath, or you have a knot in your stomach/back/shoulder etc. You just say what's honestly coming up for you, without censoring it, and you're honest in that room without fail, bc you want things to change.
What do you want to change, exactly? Without censoring it? What do you want less of? More of? You can write all this down, for yourself, a future possible T, or friend you feel safe sharing with.
When you think of something distressing, what EXACTLY about that distresses you? I find the more basic adjectives describe my distress.... the physical sensations, appearance, and often the suffering of others comes up for me, as it did today, bc dd17 had her wisdom teeth out yesterday. That was the jumping off point for a very helpful session with T today.
I find I respond well to tapping, as a resource.
I warm up by tapping the karate chop points on each hand, then I tap through the distressing thoughts twice.... to open that program in my brain/computer,so to speak. Then I tap while thinking about something better, if things were improved, if I could interpret things differently, and before I know it, my stress drops down to zero. Now, I tap through that many times... maybe 10 or 20, and then I notice where my stress/pain is.
The last time it dropped from an 8 down to a 0!
And it doesn't come back !
It's difficult to stop judging HOW or HOW OFTEN I practice being present and aware. I forget some of the resources, and I fail to implement perfectly, or I just get lost in stories, and can't respond at all... I ride the old pathways, and feel helpless, and like I've failed, which is how I was raised.
To strive for success, when I should focus on what's going on inside, for me.
It's a process to unlearn the software society installs inside us. Our culture is all about how big our homes are, what we drive, what's on our Facebook pages, etc. Succeeding in a job, or race, or game, relationship, picking out an outfit... we're trying to be good enough all the time. Have enough.
That is suffering. Worrying. Judging. Fretting. Competing. Falling short. Comparing ourselves to others... ugh. Just the worst suffering, IME!
We don't have to do that anymore. We can be super compassionate with ourselves, and dial in nonjudgmental present awareness. If we fall short, we dial it in, again and again. We're practicing. We aren't ever going to do it perfectly. No one does, not even masters.
So, up through the bottom, unhook the alarm bells of the lower brain, calm down the mid brain, and access our higher thinking, and creativity... our true selves... who we were born, have always been, and will always have. Perfect just as we are, shedding the stories we've been told, by others, and ourselves, about who we are, or might be. Put the stories on the shelf.
You worry a lot, and you ask so many questions, Boat.
I say to you.....
sit down.
Notice your breathing.
In through your nose.
Fill the lower part of your diaphram, like a wide bottomed vase, push your tummy out, and fill that vase up to the top, fill it up, through your nose.
Let it out slowly, through your nose.
The body can be tricked OUT of fight or flight, bc we don't breath like that when we're in real crisis. So we breath ourselves into a calmer state, then notice what's going on INSIDE US. Does it hurt?
If so, give it a number from 1 - 10. Zero being no pain at all. Where, exactly, is that pain or distress?
Now, what's going on around us.
Sounds?
birds? Lawnmower? Sound machine?
Shapes?
The window? Art? Chairs? Rug? Clock? Drapes? Phone? Water cooler? Shapes, sizes, colors....
and then we notice smell.
Cut grass? Essential oils? Summer air? Cooking?
What do you feel around you?
Under you?
Notice the space around you... to the sides. Above you. There's a lot of space above and beside you, Boat. Feel it. Breath it in. Breath it in as light, and let it fill the spaces around the pain/distress/tension inside your body.
Bring that spaciousness inside, and fill yourself with it.... (I picture cotton) you can build space around knots, and coils, and tension, just keep breathing that space and light IN. This was immensely helpful for me, like the tapping, but not always, and I can switch it up. The more familiar I get with the tools in my toolbox, the more choice I have, the quicker the process can go, the better I get at silencing the chaos, and entertaining the things I want more of.
If you can't do that, you can bring your attention to a part of your body that's neutral or feels OK. Just focus there for a while. And breath, with intention, bc breathing signals to the body that you're not in crisis. You're safe. The biologic responses have to be addressed before you can bring your higher brain in.
PUSH.
ON.
A.
Wall.
With all you have, like your life depends on it. And breath in, fill that vase, with intention.
You have so many great questions, but your biology's been hijacked.
Take it back, Boat.
Unhook the alarms... just shut them off. No one can think when alarms are blaring. NO ONE, and that's you and me.
The answers to all those questions you keep asking yourself will begin to appear, IME, once the alarms shut down.
Einstein meditated in the bathtub, and ideas came to him. He often didn't have a pad and pen when he came up with his biggest ideas. He invited in his wisdom, and that wisdom is inside us all.
The same for Edison. He meditated, and ideas just came to him.
There's a study where 2 groups were tasked with problem solving. One group was given 24 hours to hunker down, work in groups, and come up with ideas.
The other group was to think about the problem, then put it aside for 24 hours... allow the subconsious to chew it over, then come back, and work in a group. They had ideas popping out of "nowhere", but that wasn't where that wisdom came from. It was from a deeper place, and we all have access if we practice.
And practice doesn't have to be perfect. Just sit down, take control of your biology, and pay attention to here, and now.
I was going to post this on my thread, but it seemed like a good place to leave it, Boat.
Lighter
ps I've read and heard about all these things, from many different sources, but this one T helped me hear it in a way that made things click. I can't stress how happy I am to have found her. I wish I'd have found her 30 years ago. I truly do: )
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Thank you. Worrying is suffering ha.
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Great post, ((((Lighter))))).
Such a good reminder of our own deep resources.
There IS peace inside. I think the brain chatter just prevents us from encountering it. When you do, it feels like such a gift.
Hops
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Listening to harp music and the frogs outside. My library has a book by John Bowlby so I've put it on hold. Ironically a friend in high school so many years ago was talking to me about attachment theory.
I think I feel shameful about my lack of relationships. Haven't really voiced it, just hovers out there I try to ignore it really because I was at a loss and felt kind of powerless. I guess I need to belong somewhere.
We struggle and then we get to feel bad for the struggle and not succeeding as if we are bad or something is wrong with us. It's some kind of double whammy. The whammy mammy, idk it rhymes. Or rather Mammy Whammy.
I think I get something out of brain chatter. It does move me along somehow I think big maybe. Yes. It does. Because if I didn't blab it all out then I wouldn't pay attention at all. I wouldn't go deep enough to see anything. I would watch a movie, eat cookies. I know brain chatter is not enough.
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Grouchy this morning. Got a very banging loud neighbor. Sleep and constant noise disturbance might be the one thing that gets me boiling into a rageful feeling, partly because to me it's common sense, and I will have to address it. Like so so many things in life it may just be another one of those reasonable but not realistic situations.
There is paperwork I need to force myself to set out, open up and look at it, make sense of it, fill it out and go to the post office. Related to maybe taking classes.
Feel like my needs are unrealistic and I emotionally question if they are ever reasonable even though I know they are.
Foo just like ma situation, reasonable needs but unrealistic needs.
Instead of reading self help books on N stuff I might try reading a couple books for parents about kids/relationship building etc. Just for a different kind of perspective. Last book I read had a section about finding your inner mother well this is pretty hard for me to do emotionally so maybe reading a book could help me at least start by engaging my mind and then maybe my emotions will follow or something.
The idea of inner mother just strikes a silly chord to me, I guess "normal" people really do have an inner mother that they don't doubt and don't think about it's just there.
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Moment of freaking out. I initiated a claim for unemployment but then I didn't actually open and start it because I wanted some time off. Also they sent me a ton of paperwork and I just felt like they were trying to manage my time and my life. I just needed some time in general I wasn't ready to keep running mindlessly. Also I might be "depressed" but I hate that word. Since I read the last self help book I'm gonna call it some mini "emotional collapse" even though I don't know what that is for sure. Emotional Collapse being the new term and otherwise my code word for depression which I associate with pills. In my mind depression is a terminal illness of the soul.
As part of my lay-off I received an authorization for training because our jobs were out-sourced basically.
> The Trade Adjustment Assistance (TAA) Program is a federal program established under the Trade Adjustment Assistance Reauthorization Act of 2015 that provides aid to workers who lose their jobs or whose hours of work and wages are reduced as a result of increased imports.
I've been procrastinating believing that the unemployment just wouldn't be enough for me to get by and take classes for any substantial amount of time.
Well I made some phone calls today and I'm trying to figure it out. I'm sorta depressed that I'm so old but I still have to look closer at the benefits in case there really is something I can make out of it. Now I am freaking out because I don't know what kind of deadline there is for the TAA.
If I were to do it I would have to figure out what course I would take. CRY...... I'm not really crying. I'm totally fine. Still just even getting started with any of this paperwork makes me feel discouraged. I always feel like it's just not going to work out.
Also I think I am missing a form. But I may have missed critical deadlines and I will just have to accept it if it's the case. I'm waiting for a phone call. If any of this does pan out I would have to enroll fall quarter somewhere.
I will have to headout tomorrow and find someone I can talk to in person about the TAA stuff.
I just have to see through the hoops and keep on filling junk out and making appointments even if I'm frustrated I just have to move forward no matter what the outcome is with it. Better late than never maybe. It's a self starter situation and I should have done this in May. Here it is end of July.
Seems wrong to haphazardly pick out a course. Also maybe just taking steps is better than nothing even if I don't have a solid plan. I just can't see the future I really can't think that far ahead.
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Yes they may have missed out on $4,000 worth of pay because I really don't understand how the system works but I also wasn't ready and I thought I could stop and start a claim at any time. well stop-and-start legitimately when I'm actually taking classes. Yes I will do schitts like this and then I will complain that I don't have enough money for something like therepy it's voice recognition
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Yes it's definitely self-defeating maybe not exactly self-destructiveI do stuff like this because I feel like I just don't care sometimes like I'm tired and I don't want to deal with it and talking angrily into my phone
Taking a break how to go to some hippie food place got a late lunch early dinner bring a book with me current ready for an exciting day tomorrow inside an employment office. they can actually force me to apply for a job I don't want it feels like that's what's happening I know that's what's happening a lot of people find a way around it end up getting what they want out of it training or better job
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Maybe I'm just confusing myself I'll just find out tomorrow. I knew I wasn't ready to start looking for jobs I just want to take a break so for that reason I wasn't requesting a weekly check. I applied when I lost my job but I never opened the claim and submitted all the weekly information and I didn't get any checks however they still asked me why I haven't been looking for a job. I just told them I wasn't ready. But I don't like the question supposed to be a free country. and frankly I don't care about their stupid system and I don't want to read all their rules lol see I have an inner petulant teenage idiot inside of me this is really how I think sometimes but it really is stupid. I'm sure it's way more simplethan it seems to be and I should just relax. Actually did pretty good in school for the most part I just never finished it which also really annoys me that I didn't finish it
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I think that behind my complaints are real feelings it just comes out as constant complaining. Do you know sometimes it's just multiple feelings of discouragement and frustration along the way that it just lodge there. show us like feeling start to develop a life of their own to the point where they're just totally uncontrollable. Pretty frustrated at this juncture of my life I'm looking at taking classes but they're not like an interesting classes on top of an already established career. Just kind of like a non-career classes situation. Definitely I can't voice any of these feelings inside of an employment office. I need to get the paperwork and the deadlines and I need to already decide for myself if I can take classes what are those classes going to be they're really not going to help me make that decision at all. And on some level maybe I should just make an intuitive decision about it. taking quizzes and interest inventories etc etc that stuff never works for . Literally one time I did that and I said I should be a helicopter pilot. They're not practical. Frustrated with my own inaction.guess I need to make sure that these complaints just end up being problem solving.
So facts and deadlines. Homemade with a specialist so I can figure out the deadlines. if I can make the deadlines then I have to figure out a budget. and then if I can do the budget I guess I have to figure out the choices. And just make a decision.
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Amen, that is what you have to do, G.
And YOU CAN DO IT.
You've done a lot of natural, understandable things after the shock of layoff.
You avoided for a while. (When I lost my job I did nothing for several months.)
You've vented about the stupid bureaucratic system and how dumb it is. (True.)
You missed out on some money because the avoidance went on a bit too long. (Lesson learned.)
You pulled yourself back into focus and made a plan. BRAVO!
Not bad at all, considering everything!
So now, let yourself execute the plan/class as a dull necessity and do your best.
That'll carry you to your next step.
Don't abandon your life....you never know what something might lead to.
What's ahead will be new and possible better in ways you can't anticipate.
Allow for the possibility of good things happening.
Hugs
Hops
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Allow for the possibility of good things happening.
Hugs
Hops
Right
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I'm really tired now. I don't want to spend too much time at the unemployment office. A co-worker started a new job this week but she didn't even want the job. She just applied for it to keep her benefits going until she got an interview she wanted. But I need to not obsess over stuff like this.
Just read it's the new term for the old fashioned "nervous breakdown". Are we like having nervous breakdowns all the time? I've never thought of myself as having a nervous breakdown. Is it always like super extreme? What do you think...
Read that anxiety and depression are conditions underlying a nervous breakdown but we know that under anxiety and depression is more stuff FOO stuff.
Oh I found a page about it.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/how-everyone-became-depressed/201309/bring-back-the-nervous-breakdown
It's now later and I am looking at my local community colleges, some offer bachelors degrees and technical degrees. So far none of which I have any interest in. Nothing is speaking to me. I do feel like what if I really am too old. What if I CAN'T get inspired. It feels so much like being set back a grade in school, like never graduating from one class, just doing 5th grade over and over so many times that I am so behind there is no point. I know life isn't always linear. I just have to accept some defeat and live my life anyhow I guess.
I feel like I am running out of lifetime.
When I look at the courses I think well there are things I could do because they are pragmatic, things I could do for interest or intuition. I am only seeing pragmatic things. Though I am really tired right now.
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Local office for training benefits wasn't too helpful on the phone, unfriendly lady. I contacted a different office further away they have orientation next week and they we're very informative just over the phone so they're helpful, I'm just going there. I wish they would mail us packets or put the information on the internet but they keep it all a big secret. it sounds like I haven't missed any deadlines for possibly getting into school fall quarter but I'm still worried about deadlines. But one never knows if the classes will actually have availability. Still I feel a little bit more upbeat after talking to one person who was at least informative and clear
There are only about two or three frogs croaking tonight, maybe it's too hot for them.
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When I look at the courses I think well there are things I could do because they are pragmatic, things I could do for interest or intuition. I am only seeing pragmatic things. Though I am really tired right now.
Trying to think your way out, over and over and over again, Boat. Doing the same thing, over and over, expecting to feel better, bc you'
re putting so much consistent, thoughtful effort into the process. I know that feeling. I've done it. I still do it. I do it while the alarm bells are going off, and I can't turn my attention away, to my breathing, in that moment, to turn those alarms off.
I need a strategy. No thinking. Just doing. I think I'll just push on a wall.... just make it habit.... then remember to breathe as I push. To begin breathing with intention, as I can. I have to start somewhere, and it's OK if I do it imperfectly. I still haven't found a routine to move myself OUT of a bad place, and I know doing it as quickly as possible is important.
As I understand it, the constant little breakdowns, you mention, are moments when the alarm bells go off, and we soldier through it. It's how we've gone through our entire lives. It's our default. It's what our brains know, and how we've survived. It's how we'll always get along... unless we cultivate something else. And the alarm bells go off to draw our attention to our unfinished business. They let us know we need to pay attention to our inner worlds. We need to process, and file something. Put it down, and move on.
I'm going to repeat things here, I know, but it helps me to do it. I hope it helps you, at some point, if you need it.
How do we get under the alarms? From the bottom.... through our breathing. We shift our awareness, sans judgement, to THIS moment. NOW is all we focus on. Breathing.
In through the nose, fill up the wide bottomed vase, pooch out the tummy, then out through the nose. It seems so small, but it's the only way to let the body know we're safe. The body doesn't know we're not in danger when we're having that little breakdown. The body, the biology KNOWS we're in danger, and it's responding, readying for fight or flight. Focusing our minds on the feeling of breaking down makes it less likely to break free, IME.
If we focus on breathe, THEN we can shift focus on what's going on inside.... it's not really a breakdown, Boat. It's just our response to stress.... it's our biology. Our impressions of the past, and impressions of the past FEEL like we're THERE, right there IN THE PAST. They aren't real. They're just a story, and it's OK to put them on the shelf while we breathe, and pay attention to our inner world. You have the answers you seek, inside. When your access to higher brain is restored, you'll figure everything out, and the breakdowns will release their grip. They'll gturn into information, and your brain will file old information, and put it somewhere in the past, where it won't be SO PRESENT in our minds.
Maybe consider:
Downloading KARDIA app, Boat. If you get a chance. Breathe in, as the ball gets larger, and out as it shrinks. It's 4 minutes, Boat. Anyone can give it a go for 4 minutes, however imperfectly... just keep going back to the ball. It's OK when the mind wanders. Everyone's mind does. Just keep returning to the ball, sans judgment. Failing is where learning takes place. We SEE how easy it is to go back to the constant chatter. We notice what the chatter is. That's the starting point, IME. We learn how to distance that chatter, and we can't do that if we aren't aware.
What's going on inside, Boat? What do you feel? Where is it in your body? Your chest? Your throat? Your stomach? What does it feel like? Name it. Put your hand on it. Release all judgment around it, and get very curious about it.... observe this feeling inside. Give it a number from 1-10. Is it pain or tension.... stinging, or throbbing? Name it. Give it a number.
This is how we unhook the breakdown, the biological hijack that keeps us mired in old brain pathways. Old pathways don't care if we're suffering, or struggling. Old pathways only know they've kept us alive, so far, and that's a HUGE WIN as far as they're concerned. They're succeeding, and they aren't concerned with quality of life. Just LIFE going on for us. They won't stop functioning that way UNTIL we mindfully notice them, get under them, unhook them, and install new pathways. In this way we begin to make the changes. Small, at first, but a change in direction is HUGE when we begin. IME. Remember, it takes 7 miles for the Queen Mary to change directions. It seems slow, but it's everything when we begin.
It's good to notice where our suffering originates from. It seems scary, but it leads to deliverance from it, IME. Observing it is the answer. It's how we interpret our past, and how we fear for our futures, when all that's real is this moment we're experiencing. When we entertain stories, we suffer. Put them on the shelf. You can do this. You can focus on HERE and NOW. Just this moment. With practice. We're only practicing.
I know how hard it is to DO that, bc it's taken me 15 years of hearing about it, being guided through it, reading about it in many forms, and not getting it. SO frustrating. I needed a teacher, at the right time, to show me how.
Your alarm bells are going off, and you don't have access to your higher thinking/creativity, and maybe you know this. Maybe you don't. I see you doing the same thing again and again, and I notice your frustration. You know what questions to ask. I really want you to have access to answers.
When you get frustrated....
Consider focusing on your breathing, that blue Kardia ball helps me stay focused, bc focus is the trick, IME.
If you try... remember to be super kind to yourself, drop all judgements... shift into curiosity, and fill that wide bottomed vase, bottom to top, then let it go.... slow, and deep.
Even if it feels wrong, (PAT Pleasure Affect Tolerance) even if it feels silly, or hopeless, or like you're wasting time.... breathe, Boat.
If you can't, and sometimes we can't, maybe go push on a darned wall.... hard. As hard as you can, like your life depends on it. Expend that shooting up through your stomach and chest (polyvagal), and out your limbs energy shooting out of your limbs, and expend it. It's difficult to get quiet, and breathe when all that biology is banging around loudly, IME.
Kindness.
Breathing.
Paying attention to what's going on inside, and around you.
And more breathing to trick the body into believing there's no real danger, Boat.
Once you unhook the alarm bells, and breathing will do this for you, what comes up for you?
You aren't crazy.
You're doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different outcome. That's just craziness happening TO you, IME.
Lighter
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About the inner mom thing, G...
My mothering style is 180 degrees and world's apart from what I experienced from my mom. Even Amy says now, I was a good mom - even though things were often difficult for us; and she seems determined to make them even worse. My mom couldn't take care of a gerbil properly.
I drift in/out of spaces where my need and longing to have someone "take care of me" ramps up to nuclear. So much so, it hurts. Thru establishing some self-care rituals, I discovered that was one way I could "mother" myself. Certain things that filled that hole of need; helped me feel safe, important (to me), and loved.
I don't always need this to an extreme degree. Sometimes it's a just teeny little thing that takes no time to remind me. Other times, I'm just ready to collapse, give up, be a totally non-functional human while someone ELSE does the things that have to be done. That doesn't work out well, when you're all alone like I've been the past few years. LOL. Then I'd get disgusted and angry at myself - providing the energy to at least START on the things I knew I really needed to do. But all that does is reinforce the OLD patterns that don't work out that well for me. It's better if I take my time-out to take care of myself and let that work it's healing - THEN, try again.
I kind of made up a whole fictional character for who my "inner mom" is. But she doesn't really have a face or voice yet; a certain touch. So, she's still a work in progress. I'm building her from the inside out.
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Tired. Yesterday met friend at art event. So tired when I got home went to bed early woke up having a nightmare 4 hours later (nightmares seem to be going round). So surfed offerings at community college websites. The one closest to me has a mid August deadline for certain programs, that adds some pressure to move fast, I can almost feel panic in my chest lol. It's always something. We only got the training eligibility letter in the past two weeks but I should have taken in seriously the instant it arrived.
Just wish I had this opportunity sooner in life. So much time has gone by. I physically feel old. Part of me just wants to enjoy life and not strive. I keep on coming back to feeling it's just too late. We don't live forever, can't work forever.
I'm trying to figure out how wearing the commute will be. If it's midday I might be able to deal with it. I don't want late night commutes on the bus in bad weather. On-line versus in person.
Next week I guess I will find out HOW MUCH school they will actually cover. Two quarters, One year, Two years probably not. There are few one year programs which I think would be a nice length, not too short to be pointless, not too long. There are some certificates that appear to be about one year.
Waking up & made coffee. There are two programs that I would have been thrilled to do when I was younger. There is a sustainability program with a specific deadline. There is a horticulture program with continuous enrollment. They are both so specific though. I'm leaning towards the business programs instead one of which theoretically is 100% online they seem like they have more general uses.
I've got quite a few credits earned from way back, if they don't expire maybe I can find a technical course that contains some of the credits I still need to turn it into a degree. Though I don't want to get too hopeful. It's all not as hard as I make it out to be in my head. I need to talk to advisors. See if there is anyway at all I can kill two birds with one stone.
Well I have emailed worker retraining advisors at the two closest schools I think might work for me. Just noticed that the school close to me does have some kind of exercise facility. Probably not very large. But still might be nice. The fee for it is mandatory for all the students it looks like. Truth is if it's all paid for and there's minimal cost to me then there's almost no reason for me not to do it. I don't have health insurance coverage right now that always seems to be some kind of motivation for employment but when it came down to it my health insurance only paid $20 of a $500 medical visit. So maybe I'm not missing out on that either. I hope this works out I think it's sinking in that I might really be able to do it and there's no reason not to.
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well I told myself I don't want to waste a lot of time in the employment office but I also have to go through them to get all the training approved I have to remind myself that the point of these meetings is to take the next action step and not get stuck and I have to figure it out and move on. I have to advising appointment I'm going to have orientation and workshops I have to take Sol only day off I really have this week is Friday. Two different School advising appointments this week. I just need to navigate the process as efficiently as possible and effectively. and if I get confused or overwhelmed I guess I can just tell the people who facilitate these programs cuz it's their job so let us know what our deadlines are and what paperwork we have to send in to who and where. And I need to stay quiet and nice in general not voice any frustrations or opinions.lol. I guess I probably need to communicate to them more than once just reconfirming exactly what they need from me.
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You're focused, Boat. That's great.
I learned a quick and dirty breathing technique today called tactical breathing. It's used by military and law enforcement.
breath in 4 seconds
hold it 4 seconds
breath out 4 seconds.
Do it 3 or 4 times when you feel stress pop up. It's supposed to tap into the polyvagal system directly. I'm
Good luck,
Lighter
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That's pretty funny about the Tactical breathing it's always good to be reminded to do it. I guess the military doesn't want to use the word yoga breathing or zen breathing too peaceful.
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Posting this to myself more than anything. today I took three buses to get to an employment office and three buses back home = $16.50. As expected this days visit was pretty wasteful of time and bus fare. it was an orientation for one particular program, I found out they are not responsible for funding any of the retraining EVEN though they advertise training as part of the "Act". Only receive a small tidbit of clarity after asking two or three times what each program is responsible for. The terms are mentioned and thrown out but nobody says what they DO an what they don't DO- If only they would put this on the website, emails or over the phone tell us.
I was nice I didn't get frustrated I didn't get critical with him. I just told him I needed to understand which action grants and programs do what. I think the funding comes from the school itself -he also did not make this clear. Maybe it will make sense tomorrow after my appointment with a school advisor. Today the unemployment office gave me 21 double sided pieces of paperwork all of which has NOTHING to do with worker retraining funding EVEN though it says worker retraining on it. They basically just offer cheap talk, computers, internet fax which I don't need to spend $16.00 every day to use. I have one more orientation at the employment office that I have to go to it's actually important. After that I won't be going there anymore I can do everything from internet emails and usps I don't need them it will only cause me to be increasingly frustrated and I will feel more and more like I'm in a remedial life skills hell. They asked me stupid ice breaker questions "what's your hobby". Currently this IS my hobby FOOL. What is your dream job, I don't know I work for money don't you? No I didn't say that.
This is a DIY process with some annoying flies in the ointment & maybe some helpful info here and there.
The picnic I organized I might ditch them. Tired already and it's only Monday, got more important personal things on my mind. The one vegetarian well I don't know if she is coming she says YES but vibe is not going to show up. Another person hates vegetables but loves meat and she IS coming but didn't offer to bring anything herself. I want to sit at a restaurant with a friend and have a beer, relax. They are nice but they sorta lack thoughtfulness and enthusiasm.
Right after I wrote this one of them texted me asking what the plan is. (smile emoji if they were working)
Yawn, tired almost midnight and I am generally anxious right now. Afraid of things going sideways, not working out in everyway possible. I'm angry at myself for not doing the unemployment stuff sooner, what is wrong with me.
Strikes me how many little tasks all make up life and it explains why some of them don't get done regularly. Cleaning out the purse, messing with phone plans, cleaning the computer, cleaning out the phone photos/chats, cleaning under the sofa, cleaning the fridge, grocery shopping (reminds me I really should be paying attention to sales), laundry, cooking, dishes, flossing, reading mail, making appointments. I'm not saying any of these things are hard it's just that sometime they can seem hard, commuting, toilet cleaning, shower cleaning, floor cleaning. I know it's dumb that I'm making this list. Finding phone cord. It's hard to know what to focus on at any one time, it's easy NOT to pay attention to important things, yourself, but all of this is like a constant and there is so much more.
https://psychcentral.com/lib/why-do-we-worry-so-much/
Maybe I should PLAN more. Put that worry into planning instead of just worry. worry worry worry
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The "list queen" will comment here, G. LOL...
Sometimes when we just don't have the energy for the important things or we're avoiding them, those little things steal some importance from the ones that do really matter. Until they seem life or death - "where did I put THAT?" And you can't move on to anything else until you can cross that one thing off the list.
I find I usually make ANOTHER list, where I number those things in order of importance to my being able to function, what I really WANT, and the stuff I HAVE TO do to stay on top of things. Then, I pick 3 to work on a day. If one take more time and patience than I expected maybe I only get that one thing done. But it clears my path to try it again tomorrow.
Usually, for me, there's some emotional crap that's come up about the one thing I'm avoiding tackling. It distracts me, I can't focus on anything else really. I just want to feel better FIRST before I attempt dealing with it. But life, I find, doesn't always allow us that luxury. And in that case, I dig out my imaginary armor, reach down deep in side for inner resources, and set everything else aside until I slay that dragon.
And then, maybe I'll remember and allow myself to floss.
LOL.
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Hehehe the dragons indeed @ Skep
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Having coffee, feeling a chilled breeze come through the window and feeling afraid for winter coming haha. Up early and posed for the neighborhood lack of privacy as I can see my neighbor back out of their garage and they can see me sitting on a sofa typing.
Important appointment but I feel sorta blah. Doesn't matter how I feel though. It's too important to let the blahs win.
A job that enables me NOT to work in the city would be nice which could mean a lot of things.
Kicking myself that I didn't sign up for an adult art class or something in June when they were enrolling. Lesson learned I hope. It's okay, it's okay, it's okay.
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You ARE going to be okay, G.
I promise.
Keep doing the calming breathing things.
I can TOTALLY relate to the need for lists about very basic life-things when one is anxious. And agree with Amber that it's good to note which are priorities and then try to calmly plod through them.
Remember that all this will get resolved and all this will pass. You are not going to live in a permanent state of uncertainty.
Also, can help to think of the workshops etc as HELPERS in your life, rather than foes. Even if you have to sift them for the useful bits of info, those bits are there.
Hugs and courage,
Hops
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Doing it. Sitting, waiting for my advising appointment on campus. Hybrid classes wouldn't be so bad they're half online half in person somehow.
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YES YOU CAN
YES YOU ARE
YES YOU DID
YOU GO, GIRL!
HERE'S TO THE UNBREAKABLE
G!
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Thanks hops
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Now I am home. Today I felt like I was trying to squeeze an egg out of a rubber chicken.
The first worker retraining advisor I spoke with looked at my old transcripts/credits and determined it looks like I am only about 2-3 classes away from a DTA General Transfer AA degree something or other. They have so many freaking degrees. I've been out of school for so long I'm not up with the jargon. My credits are from 97/98.
Based on this she thought I should try to get the worker retraining to pay for a Bachelor's course to move ahead instead of taking more lower level classes. She asked another advisor about it and they said it was extremely rare and only happened like one time. My advisor for the day disagreed and said it does happen, it is possible.
I started crying in the advising appointment but stopped and she didn't notice. I guess it was the tipping point of I just can't take it anymore moment.
So I am having a beer by myself at home and trying to figure out how I am going to deal with tomorrow.
I've been told to email a couple departments to ask if my courses are still valid. I've also been told to make an apointment with a specific university transfer advisor which I did but it's not until Aug 20th. I told him to email me if anything becomes avail sooner.
It's 8:40 at night and I just had a department head reply to an email with questions about if one of my classes is still valid. CRAZY how hard these people work off the clock.
The question though is how to make a decision quickly. The school has funds but I guess it has to be CAT approved first. I think. After that she says TAA kicks in but it's federal so it takes a while.
She (advisor) pointed out it's bad to get oneself into the wrong program, she said she has done it. Doing any education is better than none is how I see it.
Im maybe at risk of looking at too many programs. The college websites list 2-3 worker retraining programs that qualify, but while in the office there seems to be a broader option. More options. I want to learn new skills I'm bored. I also want this to be doable.
Gather information. Don't talk too much. No frustration, no opinions.
It strikes me that I might not require approval from a case manager, I'm not sure who the gate keepers are. Technically we can submit paperwork on our own as far as I know. I guess that would be something to ask. When and where is a case manager's signature required on paperwork applications to TAA/CAT. Who signs what and when. Maybe it's a review board I have to advocate to. I wonder if they accept letter of recommendation. I don't understand who a person advocates their case. I guess that is a question for me to ask. How limited is the application form. I think I have it somewhere. If they say no can I re-submit. I mean my whole dept got outsourced out of country and the office was filled with computer programmers instead of us. I need to CALM down. Have a small amount of optimism but I need a back up plan b. A and B and C I guess.
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* Anxious today soon as my feet hit the floor, high level, was pacing last night, I know it's too much
* ONLY show up, listen and be nice
* They screwed up my orientation date as they sent me an email saying it's tomorrow
* I'm going to feign ignorance about the date and recent email this morning, I've been planning on this all week based on a verbal phone call.
* I'm not responsible for their confusion and incompetence. This is all part of the distract, confuse & misinform game that happens in these offices. Their rules are rules of confusion. I WILL NOT be a headless rubber chicken. I want to know what my options are I don't want to be cowed.
* Maybe phone calls and emails will suffice after this orientation, too much time and money wasted on traveling for minimal info
* I have computer, internet at home. I don't need a dirty computer lab.
I have this fear that they are going to screw me over and withhold training. I think trying to fly under the radar will be good for at least one more week. I just need to be logged for showing up. NO wonder I was procrastinating it's a can of worms. There is no reason for them NOT to treat us helpfully, professionally.
I see myself getting through this without incident. If they are nasty I will just stare at them blankly. I see myself coming home, having a nice meal. Tomorrow will probably be more hopeful as I've got an appointment to speak with a training adviser at a different school.
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Breaaaaaaaaaaaaaathe, G.
Please call someone to confirm whether or not showing up at the orientation tomorrow counts for or against you somehow.
Hate to say it, but even if they made a mistake it might be better to turn up.
You ARE finding your way.
You ARE doing what's needed.
You ARE going to find training that will help you.
And best of all...
You ARE NOT going to spend your life in a call center!
Please push walls, breathe, drink chamomile, sing, hum, draw, do whatever it takes to reconnect yourself. You are part of this human community. You are going through a tough time and some anxiety like millions of people do.
There is nothing wrong with you. It's just hard.
You can do difficult.
Difficult gets you to calm and peace.
Don't sabotage yourself. Be on your own side. Be your own calming friend.
YOU CAN DO THIS.
Hugs
Hops
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G - higher ed is my home turf.
I think, if you approach this with the attitude that you are the customer - and that your tuition dollars CAN go elsewhere, if you're not treated respectfully, as an adult, and that you don't need to be unduly confused by "campus speak"... you'll start to get results you want. It pays to be a tad bit assertive with a lot of the admin types - especially those "advising".
My experience is they'll bombard you with "possibilities" - but they have absolutely no concrete idea about how to make possibilities a reality. There's a reason those of us who USED to be in HEd consider it to be a racket. That said, you really can figure out the real info from the fluffy BS; the sales pitches.
AND get what you want.
First, find out exactly which credits will transfer. Then, find out which of the interesting or available programs will accept those credits. See how long each one keeps you a student, instead of a job seeker. ASK about potential job opportunities WHILE a student, too. I dealt primarily with adult students; you can ask me anything or run it past me. Most adults don't need or want the little self-esteem pep talks some of these people use to manipulate potential tuition dollars. And trust me, at the end of the day - that's all you are to them. (Cynical, I know. But I saw it all the time.)
It is possible to use their racket to further yourself and your goals; we just have to get you into a seat somewhere... in some program... while you start to familiarize yourself with this strange world. I'll help anyway you need me to. You can EASILY transfer to another program or school after you have a semester under your belt. This one school isn't your only option. But I think you need to just get enrolled for a single semester; 3 classes MAX. There are lots of things that have changed about school. But I think you'll find it easy, once you have a grasp of the admin vocabulary (jargon abounds) and start to see first-hand how it works these days.
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The picnic turned out better than expected, everybody was happy to get out of the house and see each other. my fear of people being cranky for lack of food didn't happen someone even brought a plastic tablecloth. Breaks from the rut. The orientation made it sound like our training options might be more open than I expected. Still there are a lot of hoops. Will write more when on my computer.
Thank u Skep & Hops
Tired. Another day tomorrow of advising at a school.
What is strange is that during this class today they were throwing out the names of university higher level schools not just community colleges. I'm cautious but it was interesting.
Again I need to have a plan. What if in the end the HARD part is ME figuring out WHAT to do.
DO I pick something close by. Do I move. It's hard to think about moving right now, I don't want to add that stress on me.
Truth I don't know what I want to do anymore. Maybe there are lots of right choices. It's not like there is only one right path.
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G - I think it's less about finding the "right" choice from the get-go, and more about exploration and discovery. Trying things on for fit, size, and how it looks and feels on you. Experimenting. There is no harm done, by trying something and deciding later on you detest it. Educational environments are pretty forgiving that way and I think are designed to minimize what we generally categorize as "failure". An academic or skills path is going to have a lot of intersections and forks in the road. You can't possibly KNOW ahead of time, which one is going to call you, tempting you to try something you hadn't considered where you sit right now. You don't know, what you don't know.
Fortunately, higher ed - in all it's flavors - is flexible enough to adapt to the path you choose AS YOU GET TO THOSE decisions. No one, in reality, that I know of, has laid out a plan or route from the beginning to end and followed it religiously without feeling trapped at the end.
That might be a little scary or stressful, so I suggest you only plan one or two semesters out at a time. That gives you time to acclimate to the environment, how it works, and learn about all those options - at your own speed. Otherwise you're setting yourself up for a task that's so overwhelming and impossible, it may seem easier to just not bother with it. Even when your brain knows that adding skills and knowledge will help you in a practical fashion and might even be fun.
OH... and when you do change your mind, that's why there's an add/drop period for classes. It's usually only a couple weeks though, so pay attention to the academic calendar. It's completely up to you what decisions you make about your path and which things to pursue. Yes, certificate and degree programs have a set of requirements; a basic knowledge and skillset to get "certified" in. But you'll find, talking to program directors and department heads... that there IS flexibility in that list of courses, to a relative degree. Electives, minor areas of study, all of that allows you to customize the learning path for yourself.
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Skep, with this Federal program they would pay tuition fees but they don't allow any changes of major/ training plan. I would have to pick something and finish it unless. Exploring would be fun but they won't pay for it. But you're right with class choices there might be some room for customizing it. I want to get through the program and I've been out of school for a long time so I definitely want to pick something that's going to be challenging but not impossible.
COFFEE!! Having some coffee.
LOL it looks like I could get an on-line degree in psychology. I used to work in research but I sorta left that behind. Hum. I better take a shower and get going.
Tired, wanna go back to sleep. Holy cowlick I am so very very glad I got glasses even though I doubted I would use them.When my eyesight is starting to go blurry at night they actually do work.
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SO proud of you, Miz G!
And do these education funds include living expenses?
This ain't liberal arts, hopping from flower to flower. You are at an excellent point to retrain for a practical but interesting career. Is there anything in health care that appeals? If direct patient contact isn't exciting, maybe radiologic technician, or x-ray tech, ultrasound, etc. There are a lot of such jobs.
I may be waaaay off. You'll find out for yourself what types of things can attract your interest. Not necessarily your whole-self interest, but interest as in my brain isn't atrophying, I'm actually contributing something useful to people's lives, and I'm in a stimulating environment where I'll learn a lot not just from technology but also from people. Dunno why, but I can envision it. They need intelligence and competence, not politician charm.
And I'm not surprised they're starting to talk to you about 4-year colleges also. You are highly intelligent and it shows.
Keep that chin up in the air, keep on breathing in calm, and keep allowing for the possibility of not-perfect-but-good things (and good people) happening!
Hugs
Hops
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* My mind is overactive
* deleting the blah blah
* I sound manic to msyelf - I'm really not I'm just freaking out.
* This program is going to assign me a case manager and that worries me, maybe it shouldn't.
* The case managers are there to help? not confuse me or make it more complicated. I feel like I can't let them know how undecided I am. Maybe they will just see it as part of the process.
* It seems like I have more options than I know what to do with. BUT many programs also require pre-reqs that I might not have. Maybe if I wanted to do something bad enough I still might be able to justify some pre-reqs and get other funding for whatever is left over.
* Maybe I am blowing this up out of proportion, I wonder if my old university acceptance letters are useful as far as documentation goes. They aren't valid now but it does indicate I passed all the placement tests etc.
* Lots of people do this AND lots of people aren't able to. So I'm super freaking lucky at the moment.
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@ Hops the training plan once it is approved also extends my unemployment. The plan allows us to receive benefits and get full-time training. As long as my unemployment kicks in I should be able to pay rent and food and it's all legit.
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I'm just going to be obsessive compulsive for a while there's going to be some point in this eventually. The truth is I just want the education. I felt bad about quitting school. so all that's going through my head right now is oh my God I can go back to school I can go back.... honestly I'm not really even thinking about what kind of job I can get out of the education my mind is just not even there right now. that's exactly what the employment office is going to want to hear what kind of job is going to come out of this. Career. I just need to get all this crazy crap out of my head I'm sorry but I'm doing it right here. I can't talk to them like this I can't just tell them a stream of consciousness they will think I'm insane or maybe they won't, even they seemed to realize this is a BIG thing to take in. Hopefully over this weekend I can just kind of regroup myself and calm the F down.
Deleting some posts here that are rambling gibberish.
The education topic I get emotional about. I used to put a lot of pressure on myself about school. Pressure and then I didn't complete it.
* I'm breathing and listening to music and telling myself to be optimistic that somehow this puzzle WILL fit together.
* It's okay to get emotional/cry, I will just do that and let it go. It doesn't mean I can't do this. It's just emotionally charged for me personally. So I can have some kind of emotional breakdown every day it doesn't mean I'm mentally incompetent. I'm not in control of everything.
* I don't have to figure this all out in one day. I do have to move fast.
* This is going to be a series of ACTION steps. My next step is turning in more forms.
* I just wish one of my appointments could happen sooner.
* It doesn't matter what I do or what I do with it. I only have to present it as a stable in-demand career.
* I deserve this as much as anybody else.
* I can ask the case managers all the questions I want to.
** Oh my gosh I just remembered I have a few more credits from a different community college school I went to. I have to put that on my list of things to do. I will just call them see if they can auth release of info over phone. I don't remember my student ID.
I just read the pre reqs for the psy degree and I think I have them all, not sure if this really is the most useful degree.
* Does it need to be practical or is self-enrichment good enough. SIGH
* I might be like 2 or three classes away from entrance requirement to a Health Studies BA part of the school of nursing but not nursing. Probably not worth it for the pay off. But it's interesting and seems like there are a lot of electives.
I really didn't think it would be possible for me to ever afford school so I didn't bother to even think about it too much.
There are BAs in community college that have more pre-reqs than University level BAs. It's kinda weird. Even within one university different campuses seem to have different intensity levels as far as getting in.
It's sort of hard for me to answer like what is a degree going to do for me at this stage in life. Besides get me out of a mental rut.
more stars
* How important is prestige really. Schools have their ranking and I am close to one of the very highest ranked in my state but do I really want to go there. Should I make an advising appointment in general or am I wasting their time. I could still go even though I'm clueless. YES I will make an advising appointment there as well. WTF WHY NOT in bold so I don't forget
-- My proximity sort of justifies it as a LEGIT choice and therefore justifies the expense possibly.
Spelling and punctuation are not my thing and still somehow I've always done well in English courses there is a full online BA degree for English. I think I could get into this pretty easy and my current credits would transfer.
So far these might be options.
BA English Online and claim I want to be a technical writer if I can prove technical writing is in demand. I don't even know.
BA Health Studies In person for who knows what. Research program coordinator.
BA Psychology Online/In person for who knows what job would justify it.
I might be able to do a Marketing degree and justify it.
Any serious sciences are out of the question, I don't have the math brain sadly.
In person cements a person down to a place, online is more flexible. I could live in the freaking countryside.
What if I'm just getting too dang excited. What if I am overestimating my abilities. Is it just a credential. It's hard to know how things will turn out...... and it's just past midnight and I am wearing down.
AND it's now past 2 AM. The math requirements could screw me up. Math is not my thing.
It's so weird the way some classes can be moved around to fill different area requirements. Tired. The closer I look at it I don't understand why the adviser told me I need classes that are not on the transfer sheet requirements. bonk bonk bonk
Having a moment of upset about deadlines, missing classes and simply not understanding it yet. It's not fun at the moment.
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G, I'm very behind on your thread and haven't caught up on it all yet. But wanted to say that it sounds great that you have some further education opportunities in front of you (albeit that there are choices to be made and it's hard knowing which way to go sometimes! I get that a lot). But I hope you're able to pick your way through it and that it all settles a bit.
For what it's worth, I went back into education on a whim. I was in town one afternoon, shopping, and the local college were having an open day for mature students. I wandered in for a look and came out signed up to three classes. A year later I was walking in to a University for the first time. To this day it was the happiest period of my life and I look back on my studying there with real fondness and longing. The biggest thrill for me was the people - such a wide range of people, from so many different backgrounds, but such a diverse environment that you didn't have to spend time with anyone in particular (unlike work, where if you get stuck sitting next to Mrs Annie Moan A Lot there's no way out). It was an amazing experience for me and I really hope this is an opportunity for you that comes to fruition without causing too much more stress along the way :) Will catch up on the thread properly over the next couple of days :) xx xx
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Two,
Even I am behind on my thread. I don't really expect anybody to read all of it. It's painful for me to re-read it. I appreciate the sentiment though. Yah, I've been wondering to myself if I were to do an on-line class it would save me time but would I miss out on the social aspect. There is real value in community. Some schools have a community vibe and some don't. Sometimes it even depends on the class itself.
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Well, I've been reading it all. Even when I don't have anything to contribute.
This is pretty NORMAL, G. What you're going through at this stage of the process. PITA, I know, but I think everyone goes through this to some degree. You are spot-on that some of what you're feeling is excitement, I think. Your imagination is taking that energy and running with it through a lot of scenarios. That's something I normally do; but I ain't claiming to be normal in the clinical sense.
So, let's lighten this up a bit. Have a few laughs over it. The thing about education is that it isn't a life/death situation. My experience of being in school, as an adult, taught me that. It was absolutely one of the most magic and valuable things about it for me. Even if I failed a class (and I'd have to work really hard to do that; even in chemistry I ended up with a B) - NO BIG DEAL. I wouldn't be kicked out, or disgraced, or shamed or anything like that. It was like being in a total no-fail world where real risks didn't exist. For me, I need those 4 years of that environment. The cocoon. I even missed a few tests and had to make them up -- cocoon.
There is a TON of support in that environment and it makes it easy, for those who have already made it over real-life hurdles, to make the most of the opportunity. You know how to do that; you just don't know you do yet. It's an excellent way to drop out of real life for a bit, to a degree, and regroup your self, while furthering your occupational options. All you need to do, to access help there - is ask for it. Even if you skip over something on a form or put down info that isn't what they were looking for - you'll get a chance to fix it. The school isn't trying to keep you OUT, they're trying to make you salivate about wanting in, to set the hook so to speak. Yeah, they have their bean counters... and it's just flat out stupid some of the information they ask for. But ask it they do. The answers don't matter so much (you aren't being graded) and I think they realize that how you'd answer their silly questions can and does frequently change. I remember one student who legally changed their name, and it caused holy hell in the data system because the admin person he requested the change from, didn't update it in the right place in the database... so it turned into my job to backtrack through all the various tables and different web applications make the corrections.
Remember - just because you don't KNOW that environment right now - doesn't mean it's going to be impossible to deal with. So you can BE excited; start picking out book bags... LOL. Keep jumping through the paperwork hoops and deadlines and such. And pretty soon, you'll have the first day of school to look forward to. Save worrying about the OUTCOME of the process, when you're close to graduating. (And just tell the bean counters, what you HOPE will happen. Chances are it will. But you don't have a crystal ball to be able predict the future and it's counterproductive to tell them that. Ask how I know.)
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Two,
Even I am behind on my thread. I don't really expect anybody to read all of it. It's painful for me to re-read it. I appreciate the sentiment though. Yah, I've been wondering to myself if I were to do an on-line class it would save me time but would I miss out on the social aspect. There is real value in community. Some schools have a community vibe and some don't. Sometimes it even depends on the class itself.
Yes, the community aspect for me was the really important bit; I think I'd have gone a bit mad sitting home alone studying online. I loved the whole atmosphere and for me it was a chance to move away and that was exciting - new places, city, people and so on - made easy because there was support for students to find cheap accommodation (I don't know if that would factor in to your choices at some point). I think also the contacts you make can be really helpful with finding work afterwards - a lot of things are based on networks of people and personal recommendations go a long way. Personally I get more out of something face to face than I do online, not least because you can chew over things you don't understand with fellow students and get other perspectives, which can be helpful. xx
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(((((G)))))
In my own super-opinionated way, I totally strongly believe you should not do college online, alone in your apartment.
I think you will find there will be adjustments and some moments of discomfort in relating to others in a new environment. And I think going through that, breathing all the while, will benefit you more than you can imagine.
The other thing you'll discover is other adult students who've been through equally deep trials and survived, and there they are too, choosing hope.
You are YOU, not an outcast, a hermit, or a reject.
Hugs
Hops
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Skep with this program if I were to fail any class then my funding would be taken away. BUT I'm not going to think about that too much right now. It just makes the point of being realistic about my abilities or lack of.
Yes HOPS I know what you mean, doing classes online in Apt alone. I do get that I really do.
It might be harder to get into the local Uni than I thought, the online program might be much easier to get into for me.
IF I do on-line classes I can physically relocate if I want to, the rent here really is high and with a fixed income and no health insurance it's very possible I could find a more budget friendly option. If I can't stand myself anymore I can volunteer or something. It really is SO much to think about. I HATE commuting. I take the bus and it stinks literally, it involves waiting outside and during the Fall and Winter sometimes that means being soaking wet. I might be commuting 3 hours a day for 3 hours of class a day. Some of this is not predictable. If I did end up relocating maybe it would be somewhere out of the city and more conducive to community, maybe I would go to church. I don't know I can't really decide based solely on these details. It's City commuting I think we've been rated as one of the worst cities to commute in for traffic.
LOTS and LOTS to consider. But for today I think I need to buy a zip drive to go scan and save all my docs to. I don't even have that.
ALSO! If I start an online program and I I can't stand it online after a while I can move closer to that school and take the same classes on campus. If I start out taking a campus only course i wouldn't be able to transition to online.
Plus if there was something else I wanted to do in my personal life an on-line class would allow me to manage my own time.
Lectures are engaging sometimes. There is an element of distraction in classes also depending on how mature or not mature the students are. It's hard to think about but even at college level some adults are very disruptive. Some online courses have like cap-stone projects that are virtual group projects but maybe some don't have this requirement I'm not sure.
But yeah there is a human element I just have to weigh and balance the pros and cons. In the end it might NOT be my decision. I have to present multiple schools with the same program for comparison.
Around midnight I remembered I took a couple night classes after work at a different school. SO I just got a freaking form to download fill out, save, send back so that I could get that student ID so that I can log in and download a transcript.
It's amazing how little organization REAL LIFE requires. LOL
There is already an avalanche of papers on my sofa. I'm gonna clean up for a few mins.
sounds silly maybe but it dawns on me that at different stages or time in life there are these identity things I really believe I am, when I was younger it was "student" "artist".... now it's like "old" "tired" "worker".... It's a mindferk to go back to "student". It's interesting to think about identity and how important it seems to be it's kind of an emotional cord.
* Got one of my transcripts downloaded this AM.
* Signed up for a career workshop, why not. Maybe I can get more than one thing done on campus.
* Emailed request for follow up appt with Adviser about my transfer credit plan same day as career workshop
* Emailed the case managers asked them to clarify deadlines. Luckily or unluckily they don't seem to act too fast.
-- I've got questions I need to email to someone else about the math requirements
reconnected with a coworker I haven't talked to in months who is also trying to scramble for school
The novelty of the idea is wearing off already and I have a major headache. I've asked if there's any way my first quarter could be funded separately so that I don't have to declare the training plan immediately well I'm just trying to finish up my last classes of the Associates. I don't think they're going to go for it but someone told me that the actual federal funds takes months to kick in. So it's a different pot of money that funds the start-up of this anyways. Regardless I'm going to have to do the exact same class is initially but I won't know if I'm accepted into a more competitive program until I finish those classes and apply for admission to ba. Sounds very reasonable to me, could be out of the realm of realistic. Not sure I have the energy for this.
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Went out to get caught up on food intake, got some coffee. Walked. Now home and looking at an email correspondence from the employment rep I'm assigned to. He didn't answer any of my questions about timeline. He was vague and circumventing. He said he wants to talk about other scenarios when I am officially enrolled. That sounds exhausting and confusing. I sent him two emails and cc another rep. There was only a reply to one email.
I'm not sure he understood my question. Can I delay officially picking a training plan for one quarter and still use retraining funds. He didn't hear that or get it.
I feel like I might be wasting my time. It's worth trying.
Be nice, I'm slightly worried about my frustration getting out of control at some point and just walking out on them telling them to shove it. I will need to prepare and study for these freaking meetings with them. I can't risk blurting out nonsense because I'm overwhelmed and frustrated. I also can't express being overwhelmed and frustrated to them. Luckily I have some time. They have no interest in meeting with me or talking to me much until I am enrolled. LOL
What if I get enrolled in their project and refuse to agree with them. They can't really make me sign anything. I can tell them I am uncomfortable at this point committing to their plan because it's not my plan for my life. I'm not a slave. They dangled the carrot.
I need to not swerve into the thing I want to avoid.
He didn't say NO. He said it might be possible even if he wasn't encouraging about it.
These people must feel like they are in a position of power. Maybe it would behoove me to request the lady as my case manager. I don't want to be a pain. I just don't want any complications.
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I think I'm going to write on Penzu some of the time instead of clogging up voicelessness.
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You're not "clogging up" anything, G!
You're going through something and need to vent and it's GOOD.
Plus, if you disappear we won't be able to keep cheering you on while you get through this!
Be sure to eat good healthy food now. And take breaks. And sleep. And drink a lot of water. Take a couple hours, meditate...slow the racing down enough to still get things done in time but not drive yourself over the top.
You're okaaaaaaaaaaaaaay. You really are okaaaaaaaaaaay.
And you're being productive as hell.
These posts are productive! The one where you basically reminded yourself of your worth in different ways, especially that you deserve this opportunity as much as any other person...was awesome.
Hang in there, G!
hugs
Hops
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There is a BA in Public Health and I'm really drawn to it for some reason.
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Went out to get caught up on food intake, got some coffee. Walked. Now home and looking at an email correspondence from the employment rep I'm assigned to. He didn't answer any of my questions about timeline. He was vague and circumventing. He said he wants to talk about other scenarios when I am officially enrolled. That sounds exhausting and confusing. I sent him two emails and cc another rep. There was only a reply to one email.
I'm not sure he understood my question. Can I delay officially picking a training plan for one quarter and still use retraining funds. He didn't hear that or get it.
I feel like I might be wasting my time. It's worth trying.
Be nice, I'm slightly worried about my frustration getting out of control at some point and just walking out on them telling them to shove it. I will need to prepare and study for these freaking meetings with them. I can't risk blurting out nonsense because I'm overwhelmed and frustrated. I also can't express being overwhelmed and frustrated to them. Luckily I have some time. They have no interest in meeting with me or talking to me much until I am enrolled. LOL
What if I get enrolled in their project and refuse to agree with them. They can't really make me sign anything. I can tell them I am uncomfortable at this point committing to their plan because it's not my plan for my life. I'm not a slave. They dangled the carrot.
I need to not swerve into the thing I want to avoid.
He didn't say NO. He said it might be possible even if he wasn't encouraging about it.
These people must feel like they are in a position of power. Maybe it would behoove me to request the lady as my case manager. I don't want to be a pain. I just don't want any complications.
G, I am endlessly frustrated by other people's ability to give a straight answer to a simple question. What I find in the UK (so I don't know if it's the same over there) is that people are only trained to implement the system - they're not trained to know the system or understand it, or to be experts in the topic they're dealing with. They're basically just pushing paper so if someone has a specific enquiry that isn't on their list they can't answer it. And for some reason they don't like saying they can't answer it, so you get a load of whaffly guff back and start wondering if it's you that can't express themselves properly :) He quite possibly is also on a target to get a certain number of people signed up, regardless of whether it's the best thing for them to do. It's incredibly frustrating. You could try finding someone higher up and asking the questions again, making it clear you won't sign up until you can get an answer to those questions. It's very annoying to have to keep dealing with things.
Are the meetings like interviews to see if you're suitable for the course? Or for you to find out more about it? I'm still catching up on the thread so you might have already explained; I'll read more today and might be able to find the answer myself lol xx
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whaffly guff ahhahah
yah I think you are probably right Two, people going through the motions
There is another office that is closer to me so I could probably ask to work with a rep there an older person, I've been thinking about it.
I hope I'm not wasting my time looking into the nitty gritty details of requirements at multiple schools. If I'm forced to deal with a community college I will have to start all over again. Also is this worth doing. Possibly two years of drudgery for a few years of work before I'm too old to work. Over and over it feels like too little too late.
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It's rather unfair of them to expect you to commit to something before explaining all the details and fine print, to YOUR satisfaction, G. And I would definitely point that out.
I'm pretty sure it's the case, that they want your commitment come hell or high water, because a) they want the statistic and b) they probably have a lot of people that aren't serious about following through with a commitment.
So you show up, you're serious as all get out, but it's not unrealistic to ask for the details of just exactly what you're signing up for and just how much assistance on tuition you can expect.
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They said the tuition, books would be paid in full 100%. We have to bring them 3 schools with the same course supposedly I think the idea is they want to pick the least expensive out of them or something. Commute is reality though.
I found some State Legislation document details about it. No talk about funds caps. It also thankfully is more clear, I need to get my glasses and make some coffee here. It says It will NOT pay for the first two years of higher education (which I mostly have ~ 2 classes) IT WILL pay for subsequent education. My biggest problem is ME, TIME/deadlines. I probably should print this stuff out somewhere and highlight it so I can just have it in a folder if I feel like peeling my eyeballs out while talking to someone. I can be extremely annoying when I am anxious, I know this.
The BIG issue now is me figuring out what I want to do, I'm also worried going into 300 and 400 level classes. Maybe I shouldn't be. I mean I have been out of school for 20 years though. In some cases if there are pre-reqs maybe I could get admitted and still do some pre-reqs. Oy.
In my 20's I would have wanted to do something creative, web design, graphic design or publications. In my early 30's I would have wanted to do something health care or health informatics related. NOW I have gone on such a LONG detour in life I am where? HAHA is the question.
If I don't do this will I be kicking myself... The reason why people do school is so they will be further along in life by the time they are in their 40's. Like am I doing this so I will be further along in life when I should be retired. I know STOP with the crazy talk. It is really disappointing to feel so far behind in life. It is. Okay but what am I going to do now.
I'm going to keep looking closly at entrance requirements.
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When you're thinking about specific things to do, pay attention to how you feel inside, G.
Does web design feeeeeel light, and good, or does it feel heavy, etc?
Does health care feel lighter, heavier, etc?
It looks like you have a bit more clarity around the program.
Lighter
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Right Lighter (smile emoji here). Marie Kondo the heck out of it. Does it bring me Joy? I will keep that in mind.
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I think I have an undiagnosed learning disability of sorts. My old GPA was at 3.3 so I muddle through okay and overall I'm usually maintaining what I need to stay above the radar. Still as far as being fair to myself I'm starting to look into some info about learning styles etc. & learning problems. Sometimes I really do struggle I'm not a super genius. I've never liked just passable grades in the past but I think sometimes being just good enough is ENOUGH.
Out of curiosity I looked up some information about getting tested for learning disabilities and it costs $300-$1000.00 + hahaha which is interesting to say the least.
Somehow in all this time crunch I need to give myself some space. I'm really wondering if I can buy myself some time.
The time pressure I have put myself under is not realistic.
I've delayed unemployment which is probably dumb but what that also means is maybe I've inadvertently bought myself some more time. I just don't know right now.
I think the adviser I spoke with initially at my old school was excited and happy to help but there is so much I haven't told her. And I don't need to tell her my life story.
It's just A LOT A LOT A LOT I need to clarify for myself.
There is a program at the community colleges I'm wondering if I can "declare" one thing to them as it is a separate program, for one quarter only. And then Winter quarter declare something totally different to the TAA program. I have a feeling I can't but considering the REAL world does make things complicated...Admissions is not a given. There are competitive and capacity constraints.
Or if I must and if it ends up only being 1-2 classes should I self pay one quarter and can I qualify to collect unemployment while doing that (probably not) They are so specific about collecting unemployment while being in school that is what is great about the TAA program. Reasonable yes, maybe not realistic I don't know. Or would I just stop unemployment temporarily and then start the claim again in Winter quarter. I could do that. I could. But living expenses ughhhh. Like my friend with daycare issues has pointed out she is worried that when all is said and done going back to school even with free tuition is still going to put her deeper into the hole. .... Ideas ideas.
I mean it's really bending the heck out of definitions, maybe I can justify the 1-2 last classes as remedial education. Remedial education for the program I want to go into which is (?) Bwa hahaha Oy.
My friend says I'm overthinking this all but I really need to exhaust myself. I really do. I feel there is some point in it eventually.
** I could self pay for one quarter it's a possibility. ... Maybe I think I have to get some kind of waiver to do this.
I don't want to spend two more years at a community college to learn how to be a secretary. I'm also not going to be an industrial welder. They might have lists of options but what REALLY pertains to me.
8/5th - It's past 4 AM. I got into bed was tired and then felt wide awake thinking about details. Now I am on college sites again looking and looking. Again I keep coming back to the fact that I just want to take some classes. I just need to pick something.
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G,
I really like the idea of a public health degree.
Given all you've been through, I think you'll have a mature perspective on it that would serve you really well with assignments, etc.
I think once you wade through the decisions, you're going to be so happy engaging your mind, learning again, and moving forward.
Keep in mind how many, many, many other adult students are rebooting their lives and how inspiring and motivating it is to do this. No matter what.
You are worth it.
You are a human mean worth education and training.
Your future will be calmer, easier and more meaningful.
You deserve it.
And you don't have to be perfect.
These decisions have consequences but ALL consequences you imagine are better than the consequence of not taking advantage of the opportunity.
You can do this.
Hugs
Hops
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There are at least 4 sets of paperwork packets I have to submit for approval and reviews. The first I should submit this week or next week. The next two I should submit by the end of this month I believe. The 4th I should submit sometime in September I think and this is the only one where it needs the case manager to approve a Major and school. I think.
The first packet is going to cause the case manager to start bugging me though maybe I will submit that on Aug the 16th. coo
There are multiple schools and hundreds of Majors albeit I can probably rule a lot out. I am freaking out.
I'm tired, I don't have to explore or do due diligence. Panicking and feeling I still won't know in just a few weeks what the right thing to do is. I'm an adult I should be able to figure this out. I should just make a list of all the programs I have looked at and decide which one sounds the most interesting to me. Why not.
I'm almost so overwhelmed I don't want to do this anymore. Whats wrong with me.
OH HOW I WISH I WENT ON A VACATION somewhere.
I should make an advising appointment with my local Uni I'm afraid they are a bit elitist and they will look down on me for approaching school the way I am but they have to realize that being a displaced worker, making a career change quickly is a reality too. I can just go in with that attitude. Not be intimidated. Be real that this is a SUDDEN SHIFT. My parents haven't been meticulously plotting out my career since I was in diapers.
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Was looking at an English technical writing BA, then Communications. Now I'm looking at Journalism but it's in decline. It's all computers and chemistry is on the rise blah blah blah almost everything requires a strong science base.
Oh my god, I think I just found a horrendous grammatical error on the BA program website for an online Uni degree in Communication. Staring at the white wall above my boots wondering "what's a person to do". They shouldn't let first year students mess with the university website pages it's too confusing. I will probably end up having to take some accounting certificate course, oh well so be it if that's what happens.
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G, just logging on quickly but my two cents for what it's worth:
When I look back my regret is that I didn't do what I love. At school, all I enjoyed and all I was any good at was drama. I wanted to go to drama college. Everyone laughed, said I was stupid, pipe dream and so on. So I didn't go. Then I found out there was a college in London for people on low incomes - all the classes ran in the evening and at weekends so that people could hold down full time jobs. I went to secretarial college to learn how to be a PA so I could put myself through the drama classes - but when I tried to do the drama qualification at the college they told me I couldn't get in on one A Level to the 'proper' drama school so I didn't apply and just got a job instead (and later found out I could have got in on one A-Level, they waived formal entry requirements and went on potential and dedication instead).
Then I went to Uni and took English and Drama - again, only took the English because everyone said drama wasn't a proper subject so I took English as well. Then I found I got better grades in English so I dumped drama all together. I still regret it and I still wish I'd gone down the path of what I loved, rather than what seemed sensible or most useful.
I only say all of that (and keep in mind I don't know how your system works there so there may be certain hoops you have to jump through to do anything at all) but I would try to pick out a few courses that you think you'd love to do - regardless of work opportunities or previous experience - and then look at those more closely and see if one of them would work for you (or maybe more than one, so you have a back up plan). But in your shoes right now I'd really try to go for something that will just be an enjoyable experience and give you back your zest for life :).
As far as being elitist goes, I don't know what it's like here but in the UK Universities are businesses like any other. They need bums on seats and tuition fees paid and they love mature students - because they've chosen to go, they know it's a great opportunity and they work hard. The kids that are there because Daddy threatened to cut their allowance if they didn't go or because they didn't fancy working in McDonalds and three more years at college puts that off for them or because everyone else in their family is a doctor/lawyer/midwife or whatever - they don't work so hard and they don't do as well.
So my humble advice to you would be to look into what you love, see what you can get that works for you from that and then get in there with your head held high and show them what you're made of. Tasks like applications I find I can cope with better if I break the job down into stages (get paperwork together. Find certificates to do with blah blah blah. Photocopy form so I can practise on a spare. Get pencils, pen, ruler. Address the envelope. Fill in easy bits of the form first - name, address, date of birth. Start drafting other bits. Draft again. Re-draft. Finalise. Proof read. You get the idea). And I block out a chunk of time and break that into ten minute chunks and I cross off each ten minutes as I go (I don't know why this helps me but it does, ten minutes at anything doesn't seem like too long and I'm always amazed how much I can do in ten minutes and it gets me down my list faster - just makes me feel like it's easier for some reason). It might help you. You might have a better way to tackle it anyway. But whatever is going on now, I think you've got this :) xx xx xx
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You are so sweet Two. Thanks. Yeah I will do something.
Now I am looking at Paralegal because it was suggested to me. Makes me sad that it's basically just a secretary. Individual classes are pretty interesting though. In the end it would be better than nothing just for the h*ll of it. It's not a job I want though seems altogether heavy. Law is basically the world of power and punishment. Such a specific job.
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Law covers a lot of different areas G. There's contract law, patent law, real estate law... and it's often helpful, as often as it's dealing with crime & punishment. Could be more interesting than you might imagine from where you sit now. But ya know what?
You're the one that's going to have the skills & knowledge and job opportunities after graduating, so your decision is completely up to you. Ask yourself, what you drawn to? And why? Sit with that awhile and maybe investigate what the day to day experience is like.
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Yeah the paralegal looks useful and there are some fluffy electives like anthropology etc. so I could go with that if nothing else works out.
So hot outside right now, hiding out indoors.
Metaphorically do I write a grocery list and go shopping or do I use what I already have in the pantry. After looking at BA programs oddly enough I think the Psychology program would be easiest for me to get into IF there is room. The English program scares me, it looks advanced I'm just not sure I can write THAT much. I wish I had more time to figure this out. The Communications BA looks like I could probably get into it too but the classes are so concentrated that I'm worried I might get bored. I want some variety, I want that BA, I like the real-world skills of the Paralegal program but then I'm going to be disappointed in myself if I don't make the BA thing happen.
My dream job would be working in a museum feh or related community art program nonsense job I think. There is even a master's degree for that locally. Don't even know what the full path is for that. I think it's too non-technical. I should just look at that direction too. I could always claim some sort of arts education plan. I think.
Man if only i could do it all.
Was looking for a flash drive now I am on a cleaning rampage. Mostly there are too many random papers.
Dang I should have gotten progressive lenses.
Thank goodness I have an advising appointment tomorrow. I need a rest and a crutch.
So this morning I've been looking at community colleges that offer BA degrees. I found one that is on-line and offers a BA in business. From first glance it looks kinda boring though.
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Making coffee.
There is an online school that I was interested in because it's a better quality school but it's on a Trimester system and it doesn't sync up with my current predicament. OH how I wished I had started this sooner. Kicking myself again.
* Must be in-state
Spoke with a different community college school advisor over phone today and learned that it's possible to start school and be on "school attendance status before declaring program path. There is a downside of this, I would still be required to do job search activities and if offered a job I would have to quit school. I've got an in person appointment tomorrow.
The phone advisor call I had today she really sounded like she wanted me to nail down a job type I'm assuming it just makes her job easier. Thing is I'm interested in how enjoyable the school process actually is the more I look at school websites the more I notice the differences in the caliber of their programs but also if I do end up doing something online some formats are way more organized and user friendly than others. I am thinking ABOUT all of this. Some schools look like they present their programs in a way that is more engaging. This is important to me. I know the school advisor I talked to with today doesn't care about that she is just doing her job. She is very knowledgeable though.
* They just want to know where I am going to end up.
*I'm thinking about how my next year is going to look and feel. Am I going to be happy or miserable in these classes.
I do hope I can get a good education out of this process not a crap degree. The community college business management BA degree I was looking at around 3 AM was on closer inspection a crap degree I think. No body would take it seriously. It's for managing a McDonalds.
Okay well I know what I don't want to do.
*** I think I need to discuss the option of self paying or grant funds whatever for the first quarter. Like my friend said she was worried this process is going to put her more into the hole with daycare. My unpreparedness might do the same to me. Timing is such a big freaking concern.
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* applied for admissions to a community college
* I know of 2 other coworkers that are going back to school also
* plan to get laptop fixed end of this month before warranty is gone, it overheats badly, like fire hazard hot
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Almost 3 AM tired but laying awake in bed.
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Brain doc says wearing blue blocker eyeglasses 2 hours before bedtime helps with light and electronic use messing up sleep patterns.
Sleeping in a room without electronics is better.
Putting our phones far away from us, when we sleep.
Melatonin... just a little.... can help, and did help my oldest dd for years.
Sometimes I take a Benadryl or two.
Writing out my goals, and worries before bed, helps me calm down. I think my brain works on those things while I sleep sometimes.
I honestly fall asleep pretty easily when I have Youtube videos playing. That didn't used to be the case, but it is now. I watch funny things, not heavy sad things.
What do you do when you have trouble sleeping, G?
Lighter
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Thanks for the tips Lighter. It's unusual for me to have trouble sleeping like this, I do sleep I just end up taking a long nap later in the day but it messes up my schedule. It's just I've put myself under a lot of pressure all of a sudden, I hope its "positive stress". Stress nonetheless.
Today I was noticing more just my emotional ups and downs. Not entirely sure what that is about or where it comes from. I think it's important, because I will get on a down note and then make decisions while I am on a down note. Recently I've more just decided to wait it out but keep momentum.
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Oh G, it does sound like a lot of stress to deal with, so many things to think about and so many unknowns to try to factor in. It's a shame it's so time pressured, is that because it's tied in with an out of work scheme type thing? It's frustrating when their aim is to just get you signed up (so they can sign you off, presumably) whilst your aim is to make the most of it and give yourself a good chance in the future. I hope there is a course that just kind of ticks your boxes and is accessible to you as well. Working for a museum or community arts programme sounds lush :) I hope there is something there that ticks all the right boxes for you xx
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Well, I think the emotional ups/downs are par for the course when you're seriously trying to navigate something new to you that can have such an impact on your life.
You said something that gave me an idea - talking about the difference between the advisors' wish to get you signed up for SOMETHING. Anything. They know how easy it is, to change your mind about programs, once you're going to classes.
You instead, want some reassurance that you're going to enjoy the school experience and content of the classes; because you are making the leap to thinking that will mean you'll like working in that kind of area. You already know how much is riding on your decision for you personally - those intangible things. That's good to know. And maybe you should try actually listing those kinds of things that you hope for in the process of education and graduation and finding a new job. Maybe that will clarify things for you. Those kinds of things are addressed SLIGHTLY more a 4 yr school. (It's still pretty disingenuous.) Thing is, you often don't know if you'll be interested in something or like it until you TRY IT. And the opposite is sometimes also true: you find out later that this thing you were so enamored with has some aspect of it, you absolutely detest. LOL. Life; it ain't for the shy or hesitant it seems, a lot of times.
But community colleges and even some Uni's are now focusing more on whether they can find you a program of study where actual jobs exist. And trying to match people up with where the need is. That is another way of approaching your decision. And at some point, you're just going to have to say - well, I've done the due diligence and research... and this is my best guess and strongest inclination RIGHT NOW. And just do it.
Because you're not locked into that; you can change programs or major later. No harm, no foul. No judgement either. It happens a LOT.
ETA: once you are a "student in good standing" - all schools have a mega-amount of support available to you, and financial aid options open up some then, too. Check out work-study programs. You're already on campus and generally speaking your work hours will be adjusted around your class schedule. Grants are good things, but read the fine print. Sometimes they won't cover living expenses. Loans are really problematic these days - but still exist as a last resort to get you to the goal.
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Yep Two it's an out of work scheme thing for certain. "worker retraining".
Thanks Skep. I just need to make up my freaking mind within the vague time and option constraints of the programs. more than one program that might not mesh together time wise.
Looks like a big ol educational smorgasbord though what's the saying "Every silver lining has a touch of gray"... and then I will get by until eating too many corn dogs catches up with us... or something.
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Yep Two it's an out of work scheme thing for certain. "worker retraining".
Thanks Skep. I just need to make up my freaking mind within the vague time and option constraints of the programs. more than one program that might not mesh together time wise.
Looks like a big ol educational smorgasbord though what's the saying "Every silver lining has a touch of gray"... and then I will get by until eating too many corn dogs catches up with us... or something.
Is it starting to get any clearer, G? I find it hard to make decisions when I have a time pressure added, I hope you're doing okay xx
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Nope Two it's not clear. I think I just need to keep taking steps in a constructive direction even inside the fog.
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I've recently had some moments of sleep rage. Only get it rarely once so many years. It's like road rage but instead it's sleep rage when one is having a hard time falling asleep or being woken up against my will when I need more rest.
I'm having a beer, haven't had one in a good few weeks but I am so high strung I think my jaw muscles are going to slingshot my jaw bone out of my face. I should probably be eating low carb stuff since I'm old enough now to be pre-diabetic. Beer is not a great choice.
I've never had road rage.
With sleep rage my heart just starts pounding wildly and I find myself acting like a crazy bitch from hell.
Intense anger is not something I get too often. I do feel like things are wildly out of control right now and I'm just going to accept that for the moment.
It occurs to me the crazy heart pounding and freak out very much seems like the flip side of a panic attack, so I guess I realized this is probably just the fight version of flight or fight.
I have done or tried tactical breathing a few times this week!!
Bad news is I got unfocused on school stuff and felt so awful today from tossing and turning that I ditched an early morning appointment that has a long wait time to get again. It's possible it may have been cancelled anyhow cuz the person had a family emergency. Oh well.
Anyhoo. I'm behind on everybody's posts now. Finished reading this book though. it's chick escapism.
https://www.amazon.com/Bookshop-Shore-Novel-Jenny-Colgan/dp/0062850180/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=bookshop+on+the+shore&qid=1566358882&s=gateway&sr=8-1
And now I am tearing up because life is so fucking stressful sometimes.
I walked out in the dark some guy either thought I was looking for pokemon or was casing the joint. NEITHER. I told him I was walking for stress reduction.
feel tired but not sure I can sleep gonna get ready for bed anyhow
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Ah G... hugs. I know this is important to you, as I would certainly hope it is. But making yourself all wound up isn't a required sacrifice to the Gods to "make it so". It just makes you all wound up and starts up the old self-sabotage feedback loops.
You're gonna be JUST FINE getting through this process - but don't expect it to make sense (now) or even go smoothly or quickly. Sit tight, relax a little, and be patient. All will be well - or at least managable. It's safe to let yourself feel proud of yourself for starting the process and a little happy about it; happy anticipation for the first day of school.
:D
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It's stress about multiple things Skep. I woke up feeling like barfing. Last night I was laying in bed thinking how badly I wish I had some old sleeping pills somewhere in my boxes of random stuff. Like just a couple nights of ambien. It happens sometimes stress overload. I did sleep but I felt like I didn't sleep. Due to such high stress I had no coffee yesterday. But I'm having some now just because. I will go buy some decaf today. A LOT of decaf I guess.
I wish there were over the counter sedatives. I know people would abuse it and that's why they don't but last night I was considering doing vodka shots. Didn't because it would just end up making me feel worse.
... Had so much trouble with rentals, shared wall and people bouncing basketballs inside on the weekends early in the morning. as a rebuttal to the basketball and general unreasonable noise i counter demonstrated by dropping a weight on the floor because anything dropped on the floor shakes the walls.. it's like having repetitive earthquakes... pounded the wall... got so ridiculously pissed off that I threw the weight on my own foot smashed my toe.. so I have a smashed toe a bruised fist and confirmation that people just can't f****** be considerate... Thank you lizard brain. I had to talk to them tell them the basketball inside was insane that it's an outdoor activity the hours of noise starting to extend later at night and earlier in the morning...it Pissed them off.. they wanted to slam the door in my face, made a little pantomime motion like they were going to slam it in my face but didn't. Anywho had to talk to them about it. At least I made myself clear. Again reasonable... But not realistic. ... It's comical in life how you can't say shit to nobody.
Going for a sandwich and library or something. Will regroup?? I hope.
And now sitting on a hard chair in a library eating a banana for dinner instead of being in my mortgage priced apartment. Reading a novel not doing the stuff I came here to do.
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((((((G))))))))
Can you swim anywhere?
It's the best physical prep for sleep. Every time.
Just one swim on a free guest pass at a gym or a Y might break the cycle.
If not, I recommend Benadryl for sleep. Harmless. Gives you a little dry mouth but it's worth it.
Wishing you peaceful rest,
Hops
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Benedryl will make me sleep; but it also gives me a hangover the next morning that must be countered with mass quantities of caffiene.
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I know, it can do groggy.
But I also understand desperation for sleep. I can't get zolpidem covered any more through my insurance, and melatonin doesn't always do the job.
Benadryl in a pinch.
hugs
Hops
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Yeh, plenty of benedryl kept on hand here due to allergies. It's not strong enough for me though to help me sleep if I'm having some kinda weird anxiety/anger whatever issue. I've tried it. Anypoo thanks for the thought though. It's just been a weird week.
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It's only temporary G. This too, will pass.
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Did we mention melatonin?
Cheap, at every drugstore, and it does help...
Chamomile tea, brewed strong with two-three bags, can be remarkable for sleep inducing. PLUS, and this can be amazing, a hot bath (regardless of season) with epsom salts. That magnesium floats into you through your skin and turns you to pudding.
Try all three! Pop a melatonin (say 3mg, 5 is overkill), drink the strong chamomile and take an epsom salts bath (2 cups poured under the running tub faucet).
Report back in the morning...
Hugs
Hops
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Eh. Don't worry I just come here and write whatever. I did get some sleep and even dreams. Neighbors were away for the weekend so there was a temporary peace. It's not me apparently I can relax and get calm under certain circumstances.
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feel too blah to write went to sleep with a headache and woke up with a headache, c'est la vie, just slowly waking up to think about more of life's stressful problems and needing an extra cup of coffee
think I will just go walk to the library drop some books off
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No there are no adult community pools close to me. There are only two small outdoor pools that are filled to the brim with screaming peeing children.
Today I picked up this book "Belong" from the library author Radha Agrawal. You know to thumb through it out of curiosity. It's a little hard to accept and take it in for me personally as the start of the book is her talking about all her personal achievements, brands and companies that she owns. Also the very first page basically says we are born into a community and connected at birth (maybe not for people who have Nar parents). She is also a twin. So I don't relate to her. There is one page where she says that she decided that not having community had reached a CRISIS level in her mind. That is interesting though. Honestly for the author it kinda just sounds like one day she decided to stop acting and drinking like a college kid and grew up. Shrug.
She mentions 7th Day Adventists and for a second I thought god do I have to join a 7th Day Adventists church to find community.
I feel like I have too much going on to even think about community stuff. Also I'm kind of stressed out and in a bad mood. I guess I could fake it. I think it's hard to put community first when one is thwarting eminent disaster in other areas of life.
The author also mentions a couple studies and somehow it's extrapolated that being socially isolated is as bad for a person's health as being an alcoholic AND she points to another study that says being socially isolated is twice as bad for a person's health as obesity is. Not sure how true it is. If it's true it kinda just makes me feel worse knowing it.
Then she goes into talking about the ol positive and negative energy thing which is so freaking unscientific.
I'm probably going to thumb through the rest of the book quickly and take it straight back to the library as it doesn't interest me that much otherwise.
Be rich, act like a bubbly cheerleader and go hang out with people. Don't be judgmental but be judgmental. Maybe that's not what she is saying but it's my impression.
Is not having community really a crisis. I guess that's a personal thing. Everybody I guess knows for themselves when is something a crisis level issue.
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As society seems to be accelerating into a lot of clinically insane beliefs and behaviors, they also seem to be blaming people as "anti-social" for not choosing to participate in that. The positive spin on it, is "seek community" for these reasons.
I was born skeptical and a non-conformist. I'm eclectic - picking up something useful over here, wending my way over there to explore, intuitively seeking out what I think I want, and sometimes finding out what I need. I have no great need to "belong", at all. But that doesn't mean I'm anti-social; I like PEOPLE - preferably one on one, or in small groups.
Community, as a concept, manifests in a lot of different forms. This non-conforming hermit, has found community in mutually agreeable trades & exchanges & agreements with the locals here. I do business as much locally, as I can... and that's also helping. But it's not something that happens instantaneously. As I've needed help and reached out, I've also given help and treated people how I want to be treated. As just a person getting by, like everyone else. And it's for that reason that I keep certain information held very privately - my income level automatically causes some people to stereotype me, become jealous, or assign personal characteristics to me... that aren't true at all.
I think it is more objectively TRUE, that having a support network of "community" - whatever form that takes enhances well-being. Could just be a few close friends. Unrelated to each other. But it doesn't necessarily follow that all forms of community work for everyone or is a prerequisite to some perpetual "happiness" state. I'm really starting to dislike this "one size fits all" idea being applied to different people, with different needs and personalities and preferences and situations.
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Yah Skep community does take time and you're right it doesn't predict a perpetually happy state.
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Didn't sleep last night too much stress and adrenaline pumping, checked the clock it was 3 AM checked again it was 5 AM. So here I am "waking up" knowing I definitely shouldn't have any coffee today at all. Generally not feeling well.
Sometimes stress just happens.
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[Uncontrollable unsolicited advice alert...aaaah---ooo---gahhhh! Submarine dive klaxon thingie...]
DO try my three-step sleep routine. Just once.
I am preaching to myself, as usual.
But hope you try it.
Chamomile (2 bags) + Epsom Salts bath + melatonin.
See what happens? Or not. I plead wine and extra talkativeness tonight.
Hugs
Hops
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I've never tried melatonin. I am drinking sleepy time tea for breakfast. It's that bad.
Thank you Hops, you are very kind. Always trying to be thoughtful and helpful!
The thing is I think I have a serious anxiety disorder not all the time but when I have these heart pounding restless nights. I feel exhausted but don't sleep and then my jerk neighbors wake me up shortly after I do finally start to fall asleep.
It's just life. I've already flipped out over it and caused myself more stress with the neighbors.
I've ordered construction worker style ear muffs aka g*n range hearing protection. It might help a little with occasionally being able to take a nap. It's not really going to take the stress away.
Sometimes I feel like a non-adult for becoming so SO stressed out, it's that I'm flooded with stress hormones and I try the tactical breathing but it doesn't override what is already going on in my body.
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Oh G, this sounds like a nightmare, your neighbours are playing basketball against your wall? In the early hours? I just don't know what the f is wrong with some people? Who does that??
I do get/have had pretty much every symptom and feeling you've been talking about on here and I wish I could say I have found a miracle cure but for me the best cure is staying away from people and having peace and quiet and avoiding stress - which you can't get with arsehole neighbours and all this picking a course stuff you're doing at the minute.
I do agree with Skep about the pressure to engage with 'society'. My problem isn't that I don't like people or interaction, as such, but I want it to be good quality, meaningful interaction that doesn't tire me out or leave me wanting to punch a wall and that's what I find difficult to find. My friend has started reading a book called 'Quiet' by Susan Cain which is apparently about the power of introverts. I haven't read it and my friend only just started it but I thought it sounded interesting.
I have been doing this little yoga sequence for my jaw pain which I thought of when you mentioned your jaw muscles being so tight; I might have mentioned this before, I'm having de ja vu! Lol I'll put the link at the bottom.
I think being this stressed out is very adult; so many people are experiencing this. I honestly think we're at a really weird tipping point where all the 'stuff' we've been encouraged to buy and all the 'work for your dreams' stuff is actually doing us more harm than good and some of us (me!) would be happier pottering about in the garden and not talking to anyone :) Ear muffs and ear plugs work wonders for my son and I use them sometimes when our arsehole neighbours' dogs are barking for hours so I hope that at least they help a bit.
I wish I could wave a wand, G. Sounds shitty. I hope it starts to lift and feel a bit better soon xx xx Keep writing it down! I like to read how you're doing, even though I wish it were easier for you at the minute :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbItEmN16jw
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Do you know what else just occurred to me on the subject of people and community and being sociable/unsociable and so on, is that what I find hard is that most conversations are about what people do - where they went, who they saw, which drama unfolded as the day went on, where they're going next week and so on. And for small talk that's fine but, truth be told, I don't find other people's telling of their day to day activity very interesting and I rarely do anything interesting in practical terms so I don't have much to talk about. What I do do is an enormous amount of work on myself and wade through huge amounts of emotional stuff and self improvement and self awareness and blah blah blah, every day, which I jabber on about to you guys. That's the kind of stuff I am interested in - philosophies of life and coping strategies and people having to make tough decisions about cutting people out or keeping people in or working through relationships. So I think, for me, that's where I find socialising draining, because it's just not usually involving talking about something I find interesting and most people I know aren't interested in my emotional struggles on my work on myself. Maybe that's the same for all of us and why we all get on well on here? Just different kinds of people having a different focus, I guess? Anyway, just a rambling thought that popped into my head I thought I would write down :) I need a biscuit :) Lol xx
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Waves from my imaginary garden over to two's imaginary garden. yeah I read about the jaw exercises but then I didn't watch the video I still need to do that thanks for reminder. Yes I'm reluctant to talk to my friends about emotional things. sometimes I do sometimes it just blurts out even though I wasn't going to talk about it. But yeah a lot of convos are not too deep. This is def a good group of people.
Last few days anxiety is demanding my attention and I'm distracted by that. I do wear earplugs and they're not enough.
Typing from phone because my expensive laptop is at the mercy of FedEx going to a repair center across the country.
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I should be doing other things but I was in a burger joint just reading a book. American Prison, Shane Bauer. Highly recommend but it's dark. How the history of slavery continued after it was legally ended because the loophole was prisoners could still be slaves so leasing out prisoners became very profitable. So I think the author basically draws a link between that and why America has the highest percentage of imprisoned people in the world. It was a great book I recommend reading it. Does make one wonder though how sick the world is when huge institutions get away with neglect, abuse and even deaths.
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Waving back, G! Sorry to repeat myself, I had a vague memory of mentioning that yoga vid to someone but couldn't remember if it was on here or if I actually did it or just thought about it :)
I will look out for that book you mention, I think a lot of people have fewer choices in life than they think they do and there's still so much inequality and exploitation, it makes me feel very unhappy. But equally I find it hard to avoid it, because it's so deeply embedded. Very tough situations to deal with.
What's happened to your laptop? I hope they can fix it and get it back to you soon xx
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Some things are worth repeating two. About that book though fair warning it's very very dark. Sorta real life fight club weirdness.
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Some things are worth repeating two. About that book though fair warning it's very very dark. Sorta real life fight club weirdness.
In an odd way I like dark books, I like the honesty of that sort of writing. Human beings can do incredible, amazing things, but can also be unspeakably cruel and demonic and utterly stupid as well. We're an odd species. I will keep an eye out for it x
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Tupp, I know what you mean about most convos being about what people DO.
I yearn for more convos about what people THINK.
Fortunately, I've found some groups where that happens. One is "Sunday Explorations" which is a secular but ethical/spiritual kind of conversation group. About 20 members, and diverse. Well, most are educated so scratch that. But there's plenty o' wattage and diverse life experience, anyway.
That plus UU groups have fed that need of mine. And M is all ideas all day long. His only prosaic subject is recipes (yawn...).
Hugs
Hops
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Tupp, I know what you mean about most convos being about what people DO.
I yearn for more convos about what people THINK.
Fortunately, I've found some groups where that happens. One is "Sunday Explorations" which is a secular but ethical/spiritual kind of conversation group. About 20 members, and diverse. Well, most are educated so scratch that. But there's plenty o' wattage and diverse life experience, anyway.
That plus UU groups have fed that need of mine. And M is all ideas all day long. His only prosaic subject is recipes (yawn...).
Hugs
Hops
Those groups sound nice, Hops. There is a group round here who meet up once a month to talk about death :) I find it kind of interesting so might go along at some point. But yes, thoughts and feelings do a lot more for me than what people do. Even with what people do, I find it interesting if they're describing their holiday and how they felt about the place they visited and what the history was like and they got talking to some old hippy guy who went there for a holiday in 1964 and never went home - I like those kind of stories. But if it's all about what they had for dinner each night and who got most drunk by the pool my brain just goes back to snooze mode :) xx
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I've heard of the "Death Cafe" movement.
People gather to "have cake and talk about death."
It sounds shocking but it relieves a lot of emotional pressure,
because our cultures have made it so difficult for people to
talk honestly about their mortality, what it means, how they'd
like to prepare, etc.
I've read that there can be a lot of laughter and friendship
in these groups, formed by such honest talk. I like the idea
and almost went to one of those events here...the timing
just didn't work out.
hugs
Hops
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I'm lurking. Took a Tylenol for a headache and having some stout beer AND sleepy time tea is brewing. Got earplugs in as I just need some peace to hear myself think or something. Sometimes I don't have much to say or feel bottled up, still I like to come to the board.
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Glad you're here, G!
Lurk away.
And sleep tight.
Night,
Hops
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If you don't mind my asking G, what happened with the school decision? Did I miss that somewhere? If so, I apologize.
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Hope you're doing okay, G, and that things have quietened down a bit with the noisy neighbours.
Love Tupp xx
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Ditto...me too Gboat...
I hope you're okay and can give us an update sometime.
Thinking of you,
Hops