Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: bean2 on May 01, 2020, 10:40:57 PM
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Hi,
I posted here the last time almost 10 years ago. I am back, because, while I solved the problems related to my narcissistic parents (BPD mom), for the most part, I just found out that my stepdaughter is most likely an N.
My husband and I have been together almost 6 years, and I never even saw it coming. Recently, due to an episode with his youngest daughter, we reached out to a marriage counselor, and he said "sounds like your daughter is an N." Wow!
My husband really has no idea what this means, but I do.
I am so confused, hurt, angry, all the old feelings are rushing back. I don't know how to handle this.
Basically, what happened is that I texted my two stepdaughters who are both adult children of my husband and got the strangest response. The younger one convinced the older stepdaughter that my behavior was out of line. She called my husband and screamed at him for about a half hour that "it was not RIGHT" what I was doing (basically, just trying to be their Mom, and giving advice, about COVID-19). She gave my husband an ultimatum, that if he did not divorce me immediately, he would Never see the grandkids again (both girsl have 2 kids each).
My husband and I are really at a loss of what to do next.
Bean
p.s. I have really missed this board, but honestly, was glad to not "need" ya'll anymore
Really glad to see the board is still active and hope someone remembers me
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Hi Bean,
I remember your name, but unfortunately, not the original story when you posted back then.
I'm sorry to hear of the upset in your family; wish it could be written off to the pandemic. It sounds like personality conflicts that have been brewing for a while. Do you have a therapist you can talk to, even if by video, about all this?
The daughters' response sounds so over the top, it's mystifying. I keep thinking of Carolyn Hax in the Washington Post. She just had a thing about "shoulds" today that I thought was really well done. It had to do with unsolicited advice.
I hope you'll find support and inner peace. I can't imagine how distressing this must be.
Warmly
Hops
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Nice to see you, Bean :) Sorry to hear that things are difficult. I do think that the current pressurised environment is causing all sorts of problems to erupt, particularly with families. Hopefully everyone will calm down a bit if given a bit of time and space. Is it possible for everyone to just keep to themselves for a little while and let the air clear a bit? xx
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I would like to chalk it all up to "this is the pandemic making us all angry and anxious," but how do we reconcile that it is devaluing and abusive to give your Dad an ultimatum such as this? My husband's younger daughter asked him to choose between his adult daughters and his wife.
This is also, unfortuanately, not the first time she has done this. Right after we started dating (5 years ago) my husband got the same ultimatum from her, and she at that time also convinced her sister. Not long after the sister caved and called us, but it took the younger one about 6 months to come around and it's because her husband and mother in law convinced her to get along with me.
BTW, I should mention the ultimatum was given 6 weeks ago. We have not heard from either daughter since, until this week, as my husband's birthday was this week. They both texted him on his birthday "happy bithday" but that was it.
We are waiting for the younger one to call (similar to before) and state "OK Dad, time is up, what's your choice going to be?" She really is an angry person. Judgemental, always thinks she's right, doesn't ever want to seek help for her issues. Her biological mother is an alcoholic and she doesn't have a relationship with her. They really fought a lot when she was growing up, have never gotten along.
I want to add that the way this ended before is the N daughter called her Dad crying on day. She had a story about how a guy came into the store she was working at (she sells makeup) and "started choking her." She said it was really scary and she almost died, and that's when she decided to call her Dad (after again not talking to him for months as she wasn't getting her way, he wasn't breaking up with me). I was like "Are you kidding me?" to my husband, I said this story makes no sense! She didn't call the police? I said Babe, she made it up for attention. I said, there is no way a store manager would not have made her call the police! I said, what a manipulative way to get you to talk to her!
Anyway, waiting for what she comes up with this time.
For the most part, we are extremely close to our older daughter who is divorced with two boys. We see them a lot, especially in the last year, as she brings them to our house and they love us. The younger one is married with a baby and a toddler and we rarely see her. She is religious and gives us the impression we're "not quite good enough" as parents. There have been episodes (my husband is just now telling me this) where she has called my husband and screamed at him because he was not a good father to her when she was younger. She lays guilt trips on him and I said, really, you are her punching bag babe. Boundaries!! Don't let her call you and scream at you. I imagine she does it to her Mom too.
I think she's an oppourtunist and saw my advice giving as a window to abuse her Dad. Normally, I am not an advice giver to these kids, they're adults and are raising kids of their own. I literally walk on egghshells around the younger one, so as not to piss her off. The older one, we are actually getting much closer. We have helped her emotionally and financially in the past. I think the younger one is jeaolous of the relationship I have formed with her sister.
bean
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Twoapenny,
You are spot on about keeping space. Space, when dealing with a narcissist, can mean the difference between life and death.
It is OK, actually essential, to say to an N "OK, I hear you and I'm sorry I hurt you, but this is not my stuff to carry, so I'll take back my space now. Thank you."
Right now I feel like the extra space is filling my brain with Anxiety, and I feel the need for more control than I normally want, and now I'm worried about taking care of an adult child.
I should have probably clarified, my oldest stepdaughter relies on us financially to the point my husband is a co-signer on her apartment, since she divorced her husband, she doesn't make enough money to qualify for a place by herself. And she makes no attempt to find friends she could live with, and split expenses with. Her plan has always been and likely always will be "Dad." (I knew this when I married my husband, it is not a big deal). It doesn't bother me, however, when she pretty boldly told her Dad and I "I'm not worried about getting Coronavirus....if I get it I will survive" all the parental insticts of both me and her Dad kicked in. I mean into high gear. Her ex-husband, who she shares her kids with is diabetic and likely won't survive the virus if he gets it.
Second thing significant and of note: This kid is recently out of drug and alcohol rehab, she only barely missed going to prison just two years ago. She almost lost custody of her kids. Don't get me wrong, she's a wonderful person who made a mistake - all of us do - but there's a back story to the "advice." It's funny, we goto church and the pastor says "raise your hand if you have kids." My husband and I don't raise our hands. Then the pastor says "raise your hands if you're done raising your kids because they're out of your house." We raise our hands. OK, the pastor says, you are still a parent. Parentlng is for life. This is so true. Harder if you're a stepparent.
So the advice...It seems mean but maybe it's kind considering we are her backup plan. I read an article that 40% of millenials go to Mom and Dad for financial help at times. That is a lot of adult "kids" relying on their parents!
Also, I was not unkind. I simply said her and her sister should call their Dad, since he's terrified of getting coronavirus cause he has asthma. She is Miss Attitude, like "I will not try to Not get it and I don't care if I give it to my kids - I read an article that women and kids survive it." My thought: this is the irresponsible and disrepectful attitude that got her into trouble before (with the drugs).
In some ways, I feel like she is anti-social and just goes against the norm to be unique. Does this make sense?
See where "advice" leads. Now I need advice from those here. lol
ugh
bean
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Oh, Bean. How difficult and chaotic things are for you right now.
I can only remind you of healthy boundaries and holding them.
If adult children make choices... they make them. You can't change them and neither can your husband.
What you can do is state and hold new boundaries, to keep you and your DH safe, then follow through with consequences, whatever you feel is necessary.
It's not an option to allow the girls to give their asthmatic father coronavirus. It's not your job to do anything but wish the girls well and take good care of yourselves.
You and your DH can always say.... "Let us know how that works out for you" instead of reacting to the provocative things the girls say about getting covid 19. It does seem like you're hearing things meant to shock and upset. In any case, you can't control what they do or think.
Accepting you can't change it would be helpful to your mental health, IME. What does worrying to to help it? Nothing.
Doing what you can.... sending letters or messages about safety was a choice and you did that.
The girls are reacting.
Your advice seems wise and appropriate. Is there anything else you can do? Putting boundaries in place around the girls and grandkids exposing or not exposing you and your DH seems reasonable.
Once you;ve done everything you can think of.... maybe go back to doing what you enjoy.. and trying to get your DH to put the problem on the shelf for now too. Worrying doesn't help anything. It weakens your immune system and makes it more difficult to be responsive when you need to, IME.
Making peace with not seeing the grandkids for a while seems necessary. What can you do to keep in touch with them... so you have joy and connection?
I really believe accepting the girl's choices will help you and your DH think more clearly and problem solve more logically through this.
Lighter
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Hi Bean! I think I remember you. My life has changed quite a lot since you were last here. I kinda blog about it - or complain about it - variously, on the Farm Doins thread.
But relative to the situation you find yourself in, my 42 yr old D is now living with me; we're building her a house on my property. She is pretty much a drama queen; yes, angry at times... beyond reason angry; and that's been stressing me out. Not so much AT me, as at the problems in her head she's working out.
But I know she's smart enough to work through most of her issues; with the shutdowns... no one's working, so she didn't have to scramble to figure out what to do. We already had a plan in place. The upsets kinda go in cycles around here. Not that I've been able to clearly see what the cycle is - or what prompts things to go south in such a big way. The "mom reflex" - to take her stuff on, as my own problem and try to help her sort it out... seems to be unavoidable for me. Just as it is, frankly - for her - in reverse.
I DO find myself talking a lot more about boundaries these days. And she is taking in the pertinant information and processing it. And somehow, we seem to keep on rolling and adapting around here, maybe because of our long-ago agreement that no matter how angry she makes me, or how stressed and uncomfortable I am by what gets laid out in front of me... that I still love her, and we're on the same side.
I think she's working on the kernel of co-dependence that's been an issue for her for some time. And it doesn't really help that I have my own battle/struggle with it. So we kinda hobble on together through it. And I think her definition of certain terms is also kinda changing. Makes it hard to be a parent sometimes.
When all that happens, the only antidote I know works, is to "check out" of the group activities here on the farm... and back into my own personal life... and my dreams, hopes, and druthers. I will put time & energy focus into people who aren't doing that particular thing or following those paths. Give myself a chance to just be ME for awhile. Maybe something like that would help you? I dunno.
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Twoapenny,
You are spot on about keeping space. Space, when dealing with a narcissist, can mean the difference between life and death.
It is OK, actually essential, to say to an N "OK, I hear you and I'm sorry I hurt you, but this is not my stuff to carry, so I'll take back my space now. Thank you."
Right now I feel like the extra space is filling my brain with Anxiety, and I feel the need for more control than I normally want, and now I'm worried about taking care of an adult child.
I should have probably clarified, my oldest stepdaughter relies on us financially to the point my husband is a co-signer on her apartment, since she divorced her husband, she doesn't make enough money to qualify for a place by herself. And she makes no attempt to find friends she could live with, and split expenses with. Her plan has always been and likely always will be "Dad." (I knew this when I married my husband, it is not a big deal). It doesn't bother me, however, when she pretty boldly told her Dad and I "I'm not worried about getting Coronavirus....if I get it I will survive" all the parental insticts of both me and her Dad kicked in. I mean into high gear. Her ex-husband, who she shares her kids with is diabetic and likely won't survive the virus if he gets it.
Second thing significant and of note: This kid is recently out of drug and alcohol rehab, she only barely missed going to prison just two years ago. She almost lost custody of her kids. Don't get me wrong, she's a wonderful person who made a mistake - all of us do - but there's a back story to the "advice." It's funny, we goto church and the pastor says "raise your hand if you have kids." My husband and I don't raise our hands. Then the pastor says "raise your hands if you're done raising your kids because they're out of your house." We raise our hands. OK, the pastor says, you are still a parent. Parentlng is for life. This is so true. Harder if you're a stepparent.
So the advice...It seems mean but maybe it's kind considering we are her backup plan. I read an article that 40% of millenials go to Mom and Dad for financial help at times. That is a lot of adult "kids" relying on their parents!
Also, I was not unkind. I simply said her and her sister should call their Dad, since he's terrified of getting coronavirus cause he has asthma. She is Miss Attitude, like "I will not try to Not get it and I don't care if I give it to my kids - I read an article that women and kids survive it." My thought: this is the irresponsible and disrepectful attitude that got her into trouble before (with the drugs).
In some ways, I feel like she is anti-social and just goes against the norm to be unique. Does this make sense?
See where "advice" leads. Now I need advice from those here. lol
ugh
bean
It's a difficult one, Bean, and I think it can be hard to know where to draw the line between caring, helping out and just generally being 'family' and what you consider unacceptable behaviour and how you want to deal with that. It sounds like the safest thing at the moment is for you to stick no contact until the virus risk has passed, given that she's not willing to take precautions, so that your hubby isn't at risk. It's hard knowing people aren't taking it seriously, and for many they can catch it and not become terribly ill. I've put three friendships on hold since this started because their attitude p**sed me off so much that I just need to avoid them until this is all over because I don't need the extra stress or upset right now. I need calm, considered, stress free interactions, not people who raise my blood pressure. I had a similarly odd reaction from a friend who got very angry at me when I urged her to take care (she's of the opinion that nothing much is going on and the papers are making things up). It's bizarre when people get angry when you're doing something that most people would see as caring so I don't know quite why it happens like that but it sounds as if not hearing from her for a while might be a blessing! You can only hope the kids don't catch it or that if they do, they aren't too sick with it. Very tough situation for you xx
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Thank you lighter, sKeptiKal and Twopenny. I read your replies and it had a surreal calming effect on me. Just knowing people heard me and get it helps me so much. I want to focus on these kinds words, and imagine your reassurance like a big hug from some old friends...and just let that feeling envelope me.
I will reply later, I loved the posts so much I will reread them a few more times this week, and just focus on the positives, like you all said.
bean
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Hi Bean,
I fell short when you asked for help, I'm sorry.
What I thought when I read about your N situation was just a sorrowful:
--You can't change a narcissist.
--You can ONLY change how you react and take care of yourself in their presence.
I spent years proving to myself and others that my mother was an N, and explaining to anyone who was interested what I'd learned, from reading tons of articles and books about Nism. It was helpful to me to talk about it with a trusted few, but it didn't change her.
It never could. So all I was left with was learning to set boundaries clearly and calmly and act on them, not expect anyone else to leap to my side saying "You're right! She's wrong!", and do the long hard therapy work of reclaiming my sense of self. To begin to realize that my boundaries were porous and mushy because she'd raised me and that the only solution was not going to be anger, but emotional detachment.
There are actually some very good videos on YouTube about narcissism and how to better protect yourself. Just type "narcissism" into the YT search box and explore. Dr. Todd Grande has some very matter of fact ones on how to react and how to interact with an N in ways that help you not get triggered or sucked in.
I do think one very big release was when I accepted that in these situations, a narcisssist or N-enablers would never see it as I did. Never fully understand what I saw. Never recognize quite how damaging it was to be in a toxic dance with an N.
I think all you can do in a family situation with an N, is learn step by step how to disengage and release the idea of winning or getting them to change. YOUR peace, YOUR state of mind, YOUR ability to detach, is what you can work on.
What do you think you want to do? Do you have the ability to see a therapist to get regular 3-D support as you work through all this? We can always chime in too, but nothing beats an ally in the real.
Hope for you,
Hops
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Hi Bean,
after reading your post what stood out for me was the part about your step daughter nearly having her children removed and about her drinking problem. People who are deep into addiction act as you describe and create big chaos in their families. It looks like narcissism but it is more like arrested development. For instance, demanding that your husband choose between her and you rings like the tantrum of a four year old. To protect yourself from getting sucked into the bottomless chaos of an alcoholic, the only place I know of to go to is AlAnon. I dead give away to someone who is into addiction is that they blame, blame, blame. For all I know, the daughter is a Narcissist but at least with addiction she has a chance at recovery. Both require you to distance yourself and learn everything you can from the experts.
PS Don't take it personally. Seriously,
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Hi again Bean,
This might not be straight on topic but thought this doc's videos on Narcissism might be of interest to you.
The particular video I watched this morning startled me, with how I related to the second category: Isolated Child. It's just one example, because he has posted many. He seems kind, rational and reliable to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPAZTF2mja8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPAZTF2mja8)
Hugs
Hops
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Hops,
I really wish you were my friend in 3-D real life. Sometimes, I forget how much you have helped me. Ever word you have ever spent time to write me, resonated. I know this, because 10 years later, I remember you helped me. This truly feels like reconnecting with an old friend. Please do not feel bad or like you fell short. because you didn't. btw, congrats on your new beau :)
sigh
lighter, I also remember you, you are kind of unforgetable
seastorm, I think you were like the original poster? :)
Twoapenny, yup, remember you too, like a rock, quiet but calm
sKeptiKal, I do also remember your kind [quirky] words and consistency - that is a compliment, personally i love quirkiness
I am coming back to this board after almost 10 years years of being away.
everything resonates, and I love this attention...but, I think seastorm is right
I am a co-dependent to someone who has a serious addiction. This is the elephant in the room right? I am referring to my Non-N stepdaughter, the flying moneky to the N stepdaughter I am talking about in this thread
I do have a therapist. thank u for asking. still trying to overcome the shock of it and I promise to reply to each and every tidbit. right now, I think I'm just venting. repeat if you have to, so I hear you
bean
I am so sad.
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Hops,
I watched the video, and understand the isolation an N mother creates. To some extent, I experienced all of this growing up
competition
secrecy
constantly being told about my N mother's sexual abuse by her father (I didn't know how to process this)
nothing positive to say (we weren't allowed to tell outsiders about the dysfunction)
no reason or logic!!
my mother was a master of finding someone to blame, BUT, I did know who was telling the truth (I was the hero child, the only one to see the facade and rebel)
envy and creating a shiny facade
could only show happiness if it makes the mother happy
daughter has no where to go with happiness (so I learned to not show happiness)
violence, rejection, no provocation required (hitting with hand for no reason, throwing water or objects at a child to keep them off guard, gave me a black eye)
everyone was afraid of my mother
Have to keep my mother in "a good mood" she constantly screamed at us we were brats
no basic safety, no protection
Don't know if much has changed. I lowered my expectations a lot, I know that. Also, I cut my N mom offf for 7 years, and reconciled with her only about 7 years ago. She hardly messes with me at all now. Then again, my mom is 74 years old.
Do you think I'm being re-traumatized? I do really feel bad for the kids of my N stepdaughter. I gotta resist the urge to jump in and "save" them. They are 3 mos old and 2 yrs old. I do wonder if she beats them. seriously
bean
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I don't know if you are being re-traumatized, Bean, but it sure sounds as though recent things are setting up a nasty whirlpool for you.
Where is your H in all this? Seems like all the advice/articles I read about this toxic kind of stuff say that it's the direct relative, particularly a husband or son, who needs to deal directly with their own toxic relative. Not the relative by marriage (wife/stepmother). They need to be defending or advocating for their own children or coparenting relationship with an ex or ex's child, not letting the "new" woman step in and take on that task as her own. Those boundaries protect you and them (all the advice folks say).
That's kind of abstract but might help you move back a step from focusing your own fix-it fantasies on your SD. It's "stay in your lane" advice but I've read it over and over again.
If you're not seeing the kids you don't have direct evidence of them being beaten, right? As you describe her I doubt they're having a happy time, but again, seems any intervention or improvement needs to start with your husband/her father rather than you?
Sounds to me (and the advice columnists I'm aping here) as though the healthy step would be counseling for yourself and possibly couples counseling so you can have support asking your H to face facts about his family situation. If he won't, then you have other options. If he will, your job would be just to support everyone in buildng the healthiest system possible and try not to stir the pot or add tension.
I'm really sorry you are seeing him hurt and imagining them hurt too. It's got to be very triggering and hard not to vibrate to. Quite hellish. YOU TOO deserve some support from an objective distance.
Counseling, I think. A safe place to vent and get the situation into cope-able shape in your mind.
Hang in,
Hops
PS I'd missed your other post where you mentioned having a therapist. I'm glad you do, and sorry you're feeling so sad. What matters most of all, imn-ho, is what YOU think. Sometimes venting stuff helps clarify it, often does for me. Other times, depending on what I'm doing upstairs in my head, I find myself circling the drain (which I did for years I think). Wish you much luck in finding your balance again.
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Hi bean:
Babies don't need to be punished or spanked or tapped......they certainly shouldn't be beaten.
Beating children is a crime.
Beating any human is a crime.
Beating a baby..... renders me speechless. I don't feel calling DFACS is the answer, and neither is chatting with someone who beats a child.
That's a tough tough impossibly difficult problem. Perhaps talking with the father of these babies would be the better route, if you speak to anyone about it at all.
I'm from a place where gaining a child's cooperation is good parenting.
Where discipline is teaching a child to do better.
Where punishment is about a parent transferring aggression and ignorance, bc they don't know how to parent better than that.
Lighter
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Hi all,
just checking in
My stepdaughter the narcissist officially disowned us. Honestly, it's a relief. I told my husband, "you'll still get hate texts" and "we'll see her in 6 months, same as before."
The text she sent my husband yesterday said this. This text was in response to a 6 minute video my husband sent her saying she cannot give him an ultimatum to leave me, he isn't going to tolerate her abuse anymore, and we are not going to "hate" people she hates: "You will never see me or my kids ever again and this is on you."
The reason I say it's a relief is because I'm old. I'm tired. I don't have the energy to deal with her abusive outbreaks. She berates my husband and it hurts him. I hate to see him suffering.
Anyway, just thought I'd check in and give ya'll a staus. Will read all your replies soon.
HUGS
bean
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(((((((Bean))))))))
I would be relieved as well. I expect sadness will come at some point - family ties, or at least our desire for family ties, are strong. So it may be that you both feel sad about this as well. But yes, relief would be my over-riding emotion if I were in your shoes and I know, in my own shoes, that the relief I don't have to deal with my mum every day, is huge. I am sorry though, it's hard when people's behaviour makes it too difficult for us to be around them. Big hugs to you and hubby xx
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I'm sorry you and your dh are struggling with that chaos, Bean.
Where is the other sd standing in this?
Lighter
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Thank you for asking lighter. We still have not heard from the other stepdaughter. I suspect she's thinking if she doesn't side with her sister, her sister will rage at her next.
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Bean:
Maybe the other sd is keeping her head down and refusing to join the chaos.
It would be the adult thing to do, IMO..... tell her sister it's not her business and to please leave her out of it.
Is your husband pretty calm with the situation right now?
How are you doing?
Lighter
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hi lighter,
I was so acting the adult, and so calm. I was giving my husband advice. When this all went down, I even went and dialed up a couple's therapist. My husband was super impressed at my expertise on the subject, and has even exclaimed to our counselor several times "that's what my wife said would happen!" He considers me an Expert on Narcissim (hey I spend almost 10 years here). I went through two different types of therapy including hypnotherapy to recover from my Mom. So when my stepdaughter turned up N...
I thought "I got this."
But there's knowledge, and then there's this other thing, called deep seated patterns. We are literally programmed (at least I am) to do and mess up anything good. To regress back to the old junk. I was believing I had really been shamed. I was feeling bruised. I no longer was thinking how mean she is to her Dad, I finally (it always takes me forever) kicked it in, and thought about Myself. And, I guess I was just MAD. Like this is long after the fact, right?
So yesterday, I went into "abused child mode." Just fell off the cliff. That's when all the trauma and grief and pain I experienced in my family of origin comes washing over me. I suddenly plunge into "little girl mode," I can't think or act like an adult, and I do stupid things. The stupid thing I did, btw, was start empathizing with the N.
I also got mad, and felt justified in spamming her a few articles about Narcissicm. She did afterall try to TAKE MY HUSBAND FROM ME.
I may have also used her email address to sign her up for some "get in contact with a Therapist" type stuff. It is all sort of a blur.
I really have no excuse for doing any of this, like I said, i was doing so well....then, I regressed.
It sort of blew up and I was forced to tell my husband what I did, and he laughed and said "she's hurting, don't contact her in any way shape or form!" LOL
I am laughing about it today, but it really was a rough night. I didn't sleep at all, had SUPER high anxiety, and started fantasizing about running away. I was literally my "little hurt girl" self. There I was back in the family I grew up in thinking "I'm pretty sure the nurses switched me at birth, because my family is SO MEAN, and I can't belong to these aliens, they are SO MEAN and hurt me, and I want to run away!" (I did btw do this a lot as a child).
I read this article this morning and it helped: ".....people who described feeling humiliated said that they felt “wiped out, helpless, confused, sick in the gut, paralyzed, or filled with rage. It was as if they were made small, stabbed in the heart, or hit in the solar plexus. Usually, they felt themselves flushing and wished they could disappear.
PHEW, it feels good to get this off my chest. I feel like a normal human being, just making mistakes. Just being human....Not some expert super healed person who can never be hurt by an N again. (really who was i kidding?)
bean
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bean2:
Your childhood trauma is popping up... that's natural, don't you think?
When that happens, your biochemistry is hijacked... you literally lose access to your frontal lobe, problem-solving, logic, creative brain. You dwell in your emotional/fight or flight reptilian brain and no amount of thinking can get you out, IME.
Thinking actually makes it worse, IME. Then we're ashamed and feeling out of control and judging ourselves. Feeling better is easier when we embrace ourselves with unmittigated self compassion and curiosity, rather than judgment. That's my experience, anyway.
WHen you feel that way in the future..... consider reassuring your younger self. Let her know you have her now. You're going to do what needs to be done to care for her. And breathe.... slowly.... filling your lungs from the bottom to the top, like a vase.... push out your belly button..... breathe and focus on that to get control of your biochemistry again. WHen you're in fight or flight, your brain releases chemicals.... to fight tigers! That's not what you need right now. Nope nope nope.
Breathing slowly..... calmly.... focused completely on breath, sans judgment. Your brain will KNOW you aren't being chased by a tiger when you get control of your breathing, IME. It's a game changer, IME. You can't be chased by a tiger if you're breathing is calm. It's like sneaking underneath your fight or flight system and unhooking it. Amazing!
THEN you have access to higher thinking. Then you can think your way OUT of the the decisions you wish you didn't make. You gain the ability to pause and respond, rather than knee jerk react out of a child's fear, guilt, shame, unprocessed trauma, kwim?
I'm so happy your DH laughed when you told him you'd been contacting his dd. A sense of humor will go a long way in helping you through this chaos, IME.
If any of this doesn't make sense to you.... that's OK. If it does, I'm glad.
Lighter
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Hi Bean,
A small favor? If you have a link to the article that described what's below, I'd love to have it to share with a friend who's going through some feelings of humiliation, triggered by similar history.
".....people who described feeling humiliated said that they felt “wiped out, helpless, confused, sick in the gut, paralyzed, or filled with rage. It was as if they were made small, stabbed in the heart, or hit in the solar plexus. Usually, they felt themselves flushing and wished they could disappear.
I'm sorry for what you're going through. It's very hard to hold boundaries when you're in trapped baby weasel mode. I hope you'll find a way to do impulse control when you're tempted to advise her, or advise him.
I can't imagine how difficult it would be to maintain restraint right now. But I do think it would help you contribute calm to a pretty fraught scene.
Good luck and keep posting!
Hugs
Hops
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lighter,
Thank you for reminding me to Fight for my little girl self. She is my best friend, afterall. She fought for me so many times before, what's one more slaying of a tiger? ;) LOVE LOVE LOVE that analogy
Breathing, I need to remember that. I was thinking of Running, running, and running! ever get a runner's high? kind of makes sense. How to get away. Of course, when you run, u gotta breathe right? so symbolic of healing and fight. The right kind of fight. The kind where I fight for me. Thank you lighter, your kind words are helping me so much, to remember the important stuff, and all the work I did to get here.
My husband and I are reading this book together: Wired for Love. It is actually about helping your partner heal. And that we come to the table, not quite "OK" or "whole" and that is OK, because our partner can help us with that. Kind of strange, I spent so many years fighting for my core self, sometimes at the detriment of any other relationship. I hope it works.
Today I told my husband I am posting to this site again, and he was like "what, I didn't know that." I said, yes, where else do you go when you have to talk about all this uncomfortable stuff and no one else gets it. I'm not going to strike up a conversation at a party with anyone we know about this. Most people do not get it.
He said: I think you're wrong, I think most people are hurting, it is more common than we know. perhaps
Hops,
Sorry, should have posted a link, it is https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-couch/201710/7-ways-respond-when-someone-shames-you
(((((lighter))))) ((((hops)))))))))))
bean
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bean:
What I loved about your last post was....
it was focused on you.
I think that's exactly where it should be.
Well done.
Little reminders.....
Be present with young you, adult protective you, the you who can breathe yourself off the ledge and the you who runs and runs to be able to breathe calmly again.
Sometimes I just can't focus on my breath.... I have to push on walls or walk backward around a trash can.... DO something, bc being chased by a tiger doesn't allow me to calmly breathe when I'm trapped in my survival mode. Most of the time I can shift my breathing and just DO it, but it's good to remember.... sometimes we have to ACT before we can shift focus to the breath.
And through it all we try to remember.....
complete and utter self-compassion....
laser-focused, non-judgmental attention on what we feel in the body....
embrace everything with curiosity......
and listen for what comes next.
I'm glad you came back to the board: )
Lighter
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just wanted to say I'm still here, just been focusing on me. no new news on the step-daughter front
bean
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So glad you are here, and being loving to the little girl inside you, Bean.
That's wonderful. Actually it's huge.
I get the feeling you also have a wonderful husband:
I think most people are hurting
Flat-out empathy. It was lovely to read about him saying that.
hugs
Hops
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OK, tough day for me, I need some reminders to take care of the little girl Bean
long story short, my husband met with his oldest daughter today
she's not ready to see me, she is still mad at me and is talking to her sister everyday.
I guess we know where she stands
ugh
I am having serious abandonment feelings and anxiety like a 9 on a scale of 1 to 10
Also, thinking something is wrong with me :(
what do you do to soothe yourself when the world seemlingly feels like it's crashing down? and I know this would be a good time to try mindfulness!!
bean
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I'm not saying these are good ideas, Bean...but an honest answer to what I do is:
--more escapist TV (often on dark subjects like crime documentaries, for perspective)
--drink another beer (and I'm at my heaviest so that's clearly not brilliant)
--take ashwagandha
--talk babytalk to my pooch and get in touch with how good loving feels
--call a friend who's able to listen to distress
--make an extra therapy appointment if I'm really spiraling
--come here and vent over and over (which you're doing....good!)
I'm sorry you're feeling caught in an emotional storm and hope it soon passes.
Hugs
Hops
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LOL hops,
let's see I'm already doing 1, 2, 3, 4 and 7 which I believe are genious. LOL. If I had a friend to call i would call one! :)
I also found relief in knowing we are continuing No Contact with the BPD'd/NPD'd younger daughter.
no contact. It is the space I need to reflect, stretch my mind and heart and learn the value of the present moment.
No contact, at least for the time-being. Allows me to get off the Karpman drama triangle train I am unwittingly on (i fear I may be the conductor, in the rescuer role of course). I need to move to center.
Just admitting all this makes me feel better, like I'm just human.
Thanks for listening hops. nite nite
bean
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((((((((((((((((((Bean))))))))))))))))))))
Something that I found helped me a lot with my 'little girl' stuff was doing things with my son that no-one had done with me - reading stories, snuggling up, doing finger painting, craft, jigsaw puzzles, sprinkling glitter over everything, baking, you know the kind of activities. I didn't do them with my son because I thought it would help me, I just noticed how much I enjoyed doing it and having a young child gave me an easy excuse :) I don't think you need a young child to do it? Maybe you could try just having a kid's afternoon at some point and doing the kind of things you'd have liked someone to do with you when you were little, whatever they may have been? For a long time it did kind of tear me up, I have to say - I'd see someone doing something loving with their child, particularly if it was a dad just doing something kind and having fun, and I'd feel so left out of that. But over time something did heal inside and I think it was doing that little kid stuff with my boy. And now I just do it, I kick leaves and make sandcastles at the beach; he kind of raises his eyebrows at me these days :) But maybe you could try just doing some stuff that you'd have liked when you were little and see how it feels to practise being a little girl, but one that's safe now and who can just be herself? xx
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Hmmm that is an excellent idea Twoapenny. thank you for suggesting it.
i will go kick some cacti...wait, maybe not a great idea ;) ha ha
I guess every cloud has a silver lining...because something that I did that was sort of miraculous (to me anyway), I asked my husband to go talk to his daugther, and specifically to defend me. I pushed too, which is so not like me to be assertive and ask for a need. He did it too. I told him this morning that my great fear, first was the ask, and then in the letting go of the outcome (would he really do it?) and then when he did and told me her reaction, and that he reinforced it (because she had attitude and tried to change his mind)...also, he said it was the first topic of conversation with his daughter, he point blank addressed it with her and said that I did nothing wrong, I literally felt my little girl self back. I was small and had tiny hands and was wearing little Keds and I could feel an adult presence surrounding me, enveloping me, and making me feel safe. I said to him "thank you for doing that, because you didn't even know I had this tremendous fear, and after you did that, I realized no one ever did this for me before, no adult when I needed them to." I said "no one ever stuck up for me."
The tears just turned on then, like a faucet then, and he held me and that was a moment for us.
I do truly think that another person can help you heal, not that it's their job, but so much validation that I never got and he he can do that for me....and now I want to try to find an opportunity to do the same for him.
While this year has been incredibly difficult, and I have been in a huge amount of pain, we are closer than ever, so I am thankful for that.
Just trying to think of the positive here.
bean
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Oh that's a BEAUTIFUL moment in marriage, Bean.
Thank you so much for sharing it.
I'm so happy for you and your husband for this Real Intimacy.
Wow.
hugs
Hops
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Amazing posts Bean, Hops and Tupp.
Be so very kind and protective of young Bean. You're her wise advocate now, Bean. Let her know you'll take care of her from now on.
Look what you did with your husband! You thought of that. You asked for that protection: )
You advocated for young Bean....and it happened.
Lighter
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That brought a tear to my eye, Bean. I so resonated with you saying 'no-one stuck up for me'. That has been a huge thing for me in my adult life, that feeling that I didn't matter enough? I'm guessing that's similar for you? I'm so glad that your hubby was able to do that, and that you were able to ask him to. What a great moment. And maybe his D (two daughters? I can't remember if you were having problems with one or both?) will start seeing this kind of constructive, useful behaviour modeled in you two and think about her own way of dealing with things (maybe - maybe not but I'm looking for positives as well lol). Well done Bean and Mr Bean :) xx