Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on February 24, 2022, 04:17:56 PM
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Thought a thread might help for this.
Like most, I'm terribly attuned to war in Europe, the danger, the suffering of so many innocents that's about to march before our horrified eyes, etc.
Talked about it with my elders' discussion group earlier and we took comfort from sharing our feelings. Interesting group with a Nam vet, deep and brilliant pacifist, and motley others, a former marine, another soldier, a brilliant 96 y/o. And a woman younger than I. Overall, a really nice diverse group of smart, caring people.
Hearing others express their own distress (after feeling guilt for bringing up the darkness) made me feel better, because I often push back against the unspoken agenda to "be positive."
I can't be, about this. I'm not freaking out, am taking in the news and sitting with it as spiritually as I can. But I do not, or cannot, compartmentalize as though it has no impact on me because I can still feed my crows, enjoy my friends, and afford groceries or gas.
Just a thread for sharing whatever anyone might need to, with war begun in Europe.
NO POLITICS INTENDED. Ain't about that. This is just ... humanity. Dealing with that.
hugs
Hops
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Anybody else thinking about Ukraine?
If you are, how are you dealing with it?
The news is horrendous and this is the beginning of something awful.
What we don't know is how drastic the awful will get.
I hope some scraps of the courage and sacrifice and dignity our Allies held together in WWII will still rise up in us. I hope NATO will be strong and include our help. So far, I'm containing fear. But also thinking thoughts like, I have been very lucky to live life for almost 72 years...then realizing they seem like "farewell" thoughts. If nuclear war results from all this and hits our nation's capitol, I'm no prepper but could go into my unheated basement for a time. Probably freeze, but with sandbags and water, might survive. More likely to have a heart attack though. I've always said if they plan to drop a nuke I'd like it dropped down my throat. I'd have no interest in living through the aftermath and nuclear winter.
Putin's actions are creating a new world and we don't know what the fallout will be, no pun intended.
hugs
Hops
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There's been enough darkness in the world for some decades now. Sharing my personal darkness isn't going to help someone very different from me. I would much rather point out that we are about 3 weeks away from the spring equinox and daffodils & tulips.
Once the ice melts off my trees, that is. LOL. I can only take care of, be responsible for... my little corner of the world. And I still have things to do in that respect.
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You're right, Amber. I was feeling overwhelmed by it -- and nearly always express the worst feelings to somebody. (I was frightened at what I was reading because even the most grave experts are sounding a dire note.) But I don't want to undermine anybody else's springtime.
One of the things I find hardest about living alone is having nobody in my life daily to express anything to during crisis times. Such as 9/11, events of similar weight. But I'm doing what I can, going to a "Zoom" vigil for Ukraine Saturday night.
Thanks for reminding me that the earth's beauty cannot be destroyed fully by humans. I should listen to my own favorite poem more (I've shared it here before).
Hugs, Hops (great article about Berry in this week's New Yorker, btw...)
The Peace of Wild Things by Wendell Berry
When despair for the world grows in me
and I wake in the night at the least sound
in fear of what my life and my children’s lives may be,
I go and lie down where the wood drake
rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds.
I come into the peace of wild things
who do not tax their lives with forethought
of grief. I come into the presence of still water.
And I feel above me the day-blind stars
waiting with their light. For a time
I rest in the grace of the world, and am free.
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S'ok Hops - we talk to each other here. And yes, I know how reading/watching all the statements of the "worst possible scenario" can affect one's own outlook. It wasn't enough for me to just turn it all off, or discipline myself to question what is presented - and how it slants, and reasons WHY it might do so. I had to choose what to replace that activity with.
Invest enough energy in the positives I could see around me, to fuel growth to drown out the ability of negative media to evoke despair and futility feelings in me. At one point, over the past couple years of pandemic, Hol started doing the same. It was as simple for her as saying everyone was healthy, had a roof over their head, and had food to eat. To begin with.
And still, I scan the headlines - the amount of repetition of ideas is astounding! - and occasionally, dive deeper into something perhaps new on my radar or that I'm curious what the author thinks; how they see things. But I regularly pull myself away to DO productive things; fun things. To enjoy what is still here to enjoy - including accepting the accompanying risk that is inherent in actually living. I've done the "just existing" for extended periods of time, and it's no longer comfortable for me. It's no guarantee of "safety" or "security" either.
Besides: Stinkers needs constant awareness on my part -- he just now tried to walk across a 2 inch ledge (AGAIN) to get to the top of my tv shelves, which holds breakable knick-knacks. SIGH. ;)
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Me too, CB.
I don't imagine myself clever or sophisticated enough to out-think security experts who've studied every increment of the geopolitics for decades. I do know evil when I see/feel it. I also am devastated by the human costs nobody's yet begun fully to pay.
I know not scholar-level but enough about WWII, the US and Europe to have few illusions. Our and U.K. media has some responsible players who most of the time, put truth above pot-stirring or conspiracies. I trust and verify as best I can, and am still a big believer in journalistic ideals. Have they been betrayed for clicks and ratings? 10,000 times. But truth still finds its way to the news eventually, despite all the cynicism.
It's pretty hard to disregard what's happening in front of our eyes, just as it was during Viet Nam. Media also changed everything in that regard, from citizen videos to embedded journalists. Those who cause and benefit from wars can't hide forever.
Knowing how complicated it is is helpful. And humbling. But arrogance or "secret" understandings based on the internet ramblings and conspiracy theories of attention-seeking poseurs will never help us hold on to the possibility of democracy and civil society surviving to evolve into better.
I feel the obligation to witness as well. One of my brightest and most conscientious friends, a long-time scholar and pacifist, was in tears yesterday. He is willing to directly feel the pain. If we suffer only vicariously for the victims, that's better than turning aside our gaze.
All that said, I can only feel so much before the crows call for a meal and the new grass will call to my bare feet to remember -- this too.
hugs
Hops
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I very much am feeling despair and concern about the people in Ukraine. I understand why NATO is standing by and Ukraine is fighting alone, but it seems to me much more could at least be done to help the refugees right now! Yes, this makes me feel very sad and afraid for the future. Just my 2 cents, for what it is worth.
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I hear you, Phyll. Be kind to yourself.
For many Americans and other watchers this is traumatic.
Can you seek out vigils or quiet rituals online where
you can feel some of these feelings with others?
I'm looking over this list of ways even a small-potatoes
gesture would be pooled and help make some difference.
https://time.com/6151353/how-to-help-ukraine-people/ (https://time.com/6151353/how-to-help-ukraine-people/)
hugs
Hops
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Hi Hops,
I share your thoughts and reactions to the Ukraine invasion completely, and I very much appreciate your posting them on the message board.
NPR published the article below online:
Want to support the people in Ukraine? Here's how you can help
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/25/1082992947/ukraine-support-help
I am a long-time supporter of Médecins Sans Frontieres/Doctors Without Borders, and I will certainly make an additional contribution for their Ukraine efforts.
Take care,
Richard
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Thanks, doc G. I wish you peace about it all, too.
I am having trouble. I could stick this under the Mental Health thread but as it's specific to "dealing with dark events" figure I'll bring it up here.
I have had a surge in anxiety symptoms (chest pain, SOB, mental confusion when first awakened) since the invasion began. I literally struggle to turn off/tune out the news (I feel as though I'd be turning my back on family). I know that's the smart approach).
If anybody has perspective to share on how to remain calm and positive and screen out the current international tragedy, I'd love to hear it. I'm flailing, honestly.
Not going quite mad yet but feeling deep deep stress. Feels so close to home. I don't know how to detach from this. (Surely some of my attachment to following it has to do with my Dad's service, being raised to stay tuned to Pentagon, DC, etc.)
hugs
Hops
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I couldn't get the link to post and I don't know if it will help as I've not watched it but I find her other stuff useful so it might be worth a look. The channel is 'Therapy in a Nutshell' and the video is 'News Anxiety: 10 Skills to Manage Anxiety When The News Is Scary'.
If it's making you feel that ill the only thing I can think of is turning the news off. Giving yourself another stroke isn't going to help anyone over there. Beyond donating and praying I don't think there's anything practical anyone can do just now. The only positive I can think of is that you don't live there. It's a horrifying situation, as are so many situations, and that's the reality of it. It can't be prettied up or made more palatable. I don't know what sort of seismic shift we need to get these power crazy fruit loop men out and have countries led by benevolent folk with a co-operative spirit. But I think your health has to come before anything else, Hopsie. I hope the video has some helpful tips, I like her other stuff. I hope you're not feeling as ill today xx
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Thanks, ((((Tupp)))).
I connected with a couple friends who also needed to talk about it and that eased my freakout a lot.
Loved the title of the videos you suggest and will check them out!
Meanwhile, the inositol is helping a bunch.
hugs
Hops
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Discussed the war with the crows, who were oddly optimistic before they ate. After that they had better things to do.
Discussed it also with that lovely Thursday discussion group. "I want wisdom!" I asked and it really did become an amazing discussion. A group ranging from late 60s to 96 (former rep to the U.N. who's visited Hiroshima twice) is actually a wonderful refuge right now. Felt much less alone afterward, love them.
Tonight is my 2x/month Covenant Group and one of the members is leading, so I an relax and just be a participant. So looking forward to it. Her topic is:
Life-Altering Moments
Throughout our lives we've experienced events that have changed us in life-altering ways. These may have involved a profound behavioral change or a slight shift in perspective. Let's explore our life-altering events by delving into past experiences that define who we are today.
We'll begin by asking what life-altering means. Does it require an intentional shift in behavior or thoughts? a profound emotional experience? a spiritual revelation? or something else?
Then choose among the following questions:
What life-altering moments(s) have changed the way you perceive what is possible?
What life-altering moment(s) shifted your perspective about one or both of your parents?
What life-changing moment(s) changed your behavior or thoughts?
What life-altering moment(s) showed you that you are stronger than you thought you were?
This will be a wonderful way to get to know more about these women. It's a privilege.
love y'all,
Hops
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Yep, people are running out of water and food in some of the besieged cities.
There was a report in the media today that Putin is planning a systematic style public execution process. All the deaths are executions. It's just they want to add more symbolic theater to death I guess to demoralize and subjugate the Ukrainians - so you know the locals are starving, traumatized and without leaders they will be so easy to subdue.
An interview I watched today a Ukrainian woman in a shelter said she anticipated massacres of the people who are hiding in shelters since the Russians can not have a civilian population that refuse to support them. Not everybody could leave or wanted to leave because it would break their families apart and some of them rather die than turn their back. The reporter doing the interview said she would pray and the Ukrainian woman said they need food and ammunition not prayers. The reporter frowned.
The Russians sunk an Estonian ship it looks like - not all details are out.
Reports claim that China was fully aware of the invasion plans before it started - supposedly there are intelligence reports about it. Interesting how that didn't stay in the headlines for too long.
I've been seeing photographs and video recordings of the dead.
It was stated that Putin had a 15 day plan to complete his goals.
There was also a map released by Belarus govt that appears to show Moldova as part of the planned invasion.
Teachers unions in the US are skewed towards 'Palestine' who in turn are supportive of Putin.
In an uncanny way Disney is releasing a movie titled 'Turning Red' (March 11th) close to when Putin had anticipated his war would end.
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From NY TIMES if you scroll down a bit on the page you find this text.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/02/world/ukraine-russia-war#dread-looms-over-the-refugee-packed-ukrainian-city-of-lviv-though-aspects-of-daily-life-continue
A Western intelligence report said senior Chinese officials told senior Russian officials in early February not to invade Ukraine before the end of the Winter Olympics in Beijing, according to senior Biden administration officials and a European official.
The report indicates that senior Chinese officials had some level of direct knowledge about Russia’s war plans or intentions before the invasion started last week.
President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia met with President Xi Jinping of China in Beijing on Feb. 4 before the opening ceremony of the Olympics. Moscow and Beijing issued a 5,000-word statement at the time declaring that their partnership had “no limits,” denouncing NATO enlargement and asserting that they would establish a new global order with true “democracy.”
The intelligence on the exchange between the Chinese and Russian officials was classified. It was collected by a Western intelligence service and considered credible by officials. Senior officials in the United States and allied governments passed it around as they discussed when Mr. Putin might attack Ukraine.
However, different intelligence services had varying interpretations, and it is not clear how widely the information was shared.
One official familiar with the intelligence said the material did not necessarily indicate the conversations about an invasion took place at the level of Mr. Xi and Mr. Putin. Other officials briefed on the intelligence declined to give further details. The officials spoke about the report on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the intelligence.
When asked by email on Wednesday whether Chinese officials had urged Russian officials to delay an invasion of Ukraine until after the Olympics, Liu Pengyu, the Chinese Embassy spokesman in Washington, said, “These claims are speculation without any basis, and are intended to blame-shift and smear China.”
China held the closing ceremony of the Olympics on Feb. 20. The next day, Mr. Putin ordered more Russian troops to enter an insurgent-controlled area of eastern Ukraine after state television broadcast a meeting between him and his national security council and, separately, a furious speech in which he said Ukraine should be a part of Russia. Early on Feb. 24, the Russian military began a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, including carrying out attacks on cities with ballistic missiles, artillery and tanks.
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On one hand people talk about failed negotiations with Putin.
On the other hand he is under investigation for war crimes.
So, is it even reasonable to negotiate with the mob, with Hitler, with a serial murderer. People are still calling him Mr. Putin in the media because it's the proper protocol.
Strange how the context of war is set apart like an alternative reality. All of a sudden murder is no longer murder.
What if Ukraine had not handed their nuclear weapons over to Russia - they handed them over with treaties that they would somehow be supported in the case of a nuclear attack... but NOT apparently in the case of Russia bombing Ukrainian nuclear power plants.
Quietly commerce continues..
https://www.airlive.net/a-russian-ilyushin-il-76-carrying-nuclear-fuel-was-granted-special-permission-to-enter-european-unions-airspace/
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/icc-prosecutor-advance-team-has-left-begin-work-ukraine-investigation-2022-03-03/
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Good to hear you, Mouse.
I found this body language experts' panel about Putin pretty fascinating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCXGQzuaNic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCXGQzuaNic)
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I watched body language thing on Putin last night. It's the most interesting one so far, imo
Dark days, Hops. Dark days.
Lighter
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Yes.
We can be sure the highest levels of intelligence are scrutinizing his every twitch. Hopefully, strategies to keep him off the ledge may protect us all. But worrying is rational.
Ai yi yi.
I'm deliberately trying to shake it off several times a day and do more present-focused things. Another ginormous pot of cabbage soup is underway, smelling divine, and I've tweaked the recipe to be a bit less HOT HOT HOT, so neighbors won't have smoke coming out their ears. Makes me happy to do this.
Crows do too. Here's a fun one 7 minutes of charm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzIo15zDSEk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzIo15zDSEk)
Looks like I may need to invest in a "scraper tool" --- LOL.
hugs and peace,
Hops
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Yuri Dmitriev
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/yuri-dmitriev-sandarmoh/
https://dmitrievaffair.com/yu-a-dmitriev/
https://khpg.org/en/1601401206
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There are war videos of people dying. There are photos of real horror. It’s not on MSM news.
It is a horror movie come to life. Bickering politicians and celebrities means nothing at all.
There are photos of dead soldiers, there are maimed civilians slowly dying on the ground.
There are people blown up and they look like hamburger. It’s terrible.
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The images don't leave my mind, Mouse. Thank you for expressing
the anguished rage. It's right.
I know what is happening, as much as an ordinary person can.
Just not the outcome. I'm calibrating how much horror/heartbreak I can take in daily. Need to maintain mental health and sanity as best I can. The big forces aren't
worrying about that; we're on our own for our own equilibrium.
I don't pretend or go lalalaaaa. I'm not in denial. I truly do fear
for civilization and the future, but while I can, I'll still grasp on
to small human affirmative moments. Crows (animals), friends, and
kindness. These are things that can't be taken away. And in the short
term, I use distraction to calm myself.
Victor Frankl's book, Man's Search for Meaning, is helpful now.
hugs
Hops
PS How are you doing and how are you coping with what's happening?
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I just get the feeling that Americans aren't totally realizing how messed up this stuff is. How China is linked.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10579901/Pro-Putin-politicians-influencers-wear-clothes-bearing-letter-Z.html
I'm sorry to say it but a scholar/ fellow on Human Rights and Conflict Resolution has posted information that are basically genocide spreadsheets. Russians have lists of people to kill who are their opposition. I know you know that but it's very surreal to be following all of this.
Putin sees this war as a war against 'The West' not just about Ukraine.
I think it's horrifying.
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I'm just absolutely fucking horrified.
I sent one photo to a friend that had some deaths in it not too explicit but it was clear.
She said: I much prefer the cute Japan picture. This one is horrific but it really makes you realize people are dying over there.
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Me too, Mouse. Also horrified.
I was beginning to unravel around the edges, that's the only reason I retreated to watching escapist stuff. I dip in to the latest atrocities, dip out to distraction again. No other way.
I am not made of the mighty courage so many have. I am too sensitive to face it all, all at once. Unfortunately.
Russia's kill lists are par for the course. Glad they've escaped into the daylight so maybe some of his targets can evade the ... polonium umbrellas? Hit squads?
I will put my fear into the soil, which can absorb and process it. Then I'll plant sunflowers in the nutritious soil circle my dead tree left behind. Seeds are on their way.
hugs
Hops
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The killings are getting worse. Reports from people in Ukraine say areas are being "razed to the ground"
all I can say is I didn't fully comprehend the true meaning of blood bath
there are videos of people in mass pools of blood
I can't look away from what is happening
It's Putin's Reign of Terror
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In Ireland a man rams the Russian embassy so he can distribute photos of bomb victims inside.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0307/1284925-embassy/
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Mouse, for your sake I'd like to challenge this:
I can't look away from what is happening
You and only you can calibrate how much witnessing you can take, or need to in order to feel compassion and solidarity. (I'm also preaching to myself, daily.)
Sacrificing your own mental stability by filling your mind with nothing else won't help. It won't stop their suffering. It is horror. And human minds aren't designed to take in endless volumes of it. When they do, it changes not just soldiers but observers forever.
Be careful. Recognize all this for what it is. Truth is cleansing but too much exposure to evil is sickening. Don't become sick.
Just...balance. Use distraction when you feel it rising high enough to flood you.
I'm working at that too and it is difficult.
hugs
Hops
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Thank you, CB.
The Sibelius made we weep...in a good way.
One Tweet below said, "The human voice is a powerful weapon against war."
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Phones being systematically checked in Moscow by police. Police beating protestors with billy clubs.
A report that the Ukrainian staff at the Chernobyl are now being tortured - I assume it's true but I don't know how to verify it at the moment.
The Wagner Group is known for torture.
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Report of factories in Russia can't pay their staff so factory protests are happening.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t7v7mm/its_started_in_russia_in_nizhnekamsk_workers_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
A Russian Lady sent me a snapshot in the subway today and the Z symbol is being used just like the Swastika was. It's up on banners and flags. It promotes the war and the theme is "denazification" of Ukraine. Stupid confusion tactics.
QANON is now spreading the idea that Ukraine has biological weapons. More confusion tactics.
Who is running QAnon anyhow - Russia and Chinese interests? One wonders.
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Thermobaric bombs are giantic. They are making burning mushroom clouds. What a hellscape.
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People supporting the Z war, Putinism, claims of religious support.
People supporting Putin's massacre appear to be doing it for Jesus.
"Serbs march in support of 'Mother Russia' in Belgrade" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S95U61RGv4
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/06/russia-and-ukraine-are-trapped-in-medieval-myths/
Giant Bomb:
https://twitter.com/expatua/status/1502190409363214340
Giant Bomb:
https://www.tiktok.com/@thickchickenthighs0/video/7070118972343029034?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id7069262569592538630
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Russians are putting out Nazi-like propaganda. The letter Z is promoted so widely it's pretty much their new swastika. I've been seeing it in social media.
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Hi everyone,
One of my dear patients e-mailed me this PBS interview:
Putin's Road to War: Julia Ioffe (interview) | FRONTLINE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSNo2FPQDQw
Ioffe details Putin's personality and the horror story/stories that evolved/are evolving from it in a compelling and accurate way.
Definitely worth viewing if you can stomach it. Warning: it is not an optimistic view of current events.
Thinking of all of you in these very difficult times,
Richard
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Thank you, (((((Doc G))))).
I confess I won't, since I'm saturated with worry to the point that I have to take a break from the scariest takes on the war.
They're in my mind, for sure. But I'm trying to hold them at bay, for sanity's (and serenity's) sake. I wish I could focus on being "well-informed" or anticipated outcomes, but my psyche is too busy screaming.
Meanwhile, I have a poem that friends have said strengthens personal peace. If anybody wants it, just PM me please. (And don't post/share it online.) Thanks.
And thank YOU, Doc G, forevermore, for this safe free space.
love,
Hops
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Hi CB,
Thanks for the link—I very much appreciated it. Just so everyone knows, here’s a quote from the article:
“More immediately, millions of the world’s poorest people, who are dependent on Ukrainian grains, are going to suffer. Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Lebanon, and Turkey all depend on wheat from Ukraine. A disruption in grain supplies will send those countries into the market, driving up prices globally, especially as countries with their own grain slap controls on grain exports to make sure their people have enough. That will hurt the world’s least food-secure countries, like Bangladesh and Yemen. The U.N. World Food Programme has predicted 2022 will be ‘a year of catastrophic hunger.’”
The suffering in the world right now, brought about in large part by one person’s (Putin’s) narcissism/ego, is unbearable…
Take care,
Richard
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watching the interview right now
at this point, I think Putin is a sadistic freak
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July 4th.
I was at peace until this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4E5Hf1QMS8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4E5Hf1QMS8)
Ben Collins is talking about WHERE it is brewing (on the dark side of the internet, about which primitive interpreters of the Constitution mumble "free speech" -- based on language written before anyone even could IMAGINE the internet + broken young men = ______ )...
Anyway, this isn't politics. It's about sanity vs insanity CULTURE WIDE. The latest #1 film on Amazon is "The Termination List" -- a revenge-fest featuring massive guns and hyper "bro" culture with a thin veneer of righteousness while murder after splattering murder take place. Makes me nuts when pundits use "are these young men PERHAPS influenced by...." kind of language.
Rant done. If you just don't feel like engaging the subject here I totally get it.
hugs
Hops