Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Meh on March 03, 2025, 12:06:16 AM
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So at the moment I have this state health insurance and I've not used it very much because I'm unmotivated, am not in a big city so there aren't very many health care providers anyways, and the insurance website is clunky and awkward and none of it is organized it's all these various listings some of them out of business and some of them not taking new patients. I thought I might try to just SEE if I can locate a therapist via this health insurance.
The first one I landed on I called the phone number it's disconnected. The second one appears to be a drag queen in their personal time and wants people to follow their drag shows on instagram. Left a message for a mysterious other office in case they might call me back during the week. Now I am looking at people who are a long drive away and are stating all this political wokery crap on their websites about gender.
This is why I don't bother in the first place it takes hours and hours of my time just to locate someone and even at that the schools in my state are far politically left which means they put all the gender crap on their professional webpages. At this point if I were to see a therapist I only want to see an old woman. Somebody with a real vagina that has always had a vagina. Not a neovagina not any of that weird shit.
I just don't think it's worth it to try to see a therapist. And yet here I am slogging through this crap but again if you're rich you live in a big city and you go see some specialist in the area that is relevant to whatever it is you are seeing a therapist for I figure. I imagine these people read some text books at a university they just got by on their tests by reciting whatever is in the books. I don't know what I am doing tonight am I going to continue to spend another hour scrolling down these offices which are like an hour each way to drive to. I'm not sure. There is teledoc but I really don't think I want to do that.
Maybe I really should move back to the city. Or not. I don't know. I suppose I could ATTEMPT a teledoc counseling appointment. I don't want to be on a video camera talking about personal stuff. I don't care how they market it that's just not appealing to me. It's not. I already wasted my day doing this so I might as well keep looking since I am in their dumb database of providers.
You see if you have some kind of good health network you call and can get something set up in 20-30 minutes at the most and make an appointment but this is honestly I'm just shaking my head and complaining per usual. I have to complain my way through everything it is the only way I get anything done.
Here is the other thing like for example on one website it says this (Fees Psychotherapy, 50 min: $140)
I am low class so I usually get paid $20 an hour at the MAX. So if I were to pay for this out of pocket it would be like an entire days pay for me practically once they take taxes out of it.
The question is well is it really worth it and what am I meant to get out of therapy?
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Hey, Meh.
My thought in answer is: peace. Just some peace.
And maybe an understanding of where/how you belong in this world.
I hope you could consider one Telehealth session, to give it a chance. And/or tell a potential therapist right up front that your beliefs are right-wing, and do they feel comfortable helping someone who's socially conservative? Any decent therapist should answer that honestly.
Good luck, and it sounds good to me that you're making this effort.
hugs
Hops
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Finding ANY healthcare within a "local" driving distance is getting harder & harder, Meh. And Godz forbid, you need a specialist. Our last visit was a 2 hr drive into the city. Hol drove, coz the traffic makes me a nervous wreck.
I think, if you're gonna try "teledoc" maybe you ought to draft a reasonably short email explaining your goal that you can send BEFORE a session. And you can ask about the ideology differences maybe getting in the way. That way, you session time isn't wasted.
There is always a dice roll, trying to find someone that YOU can work with. They may be highly praised by other people, but if y'all don't see eye to eye or can't communicate smoothly, then they're not for you. I get what you're saying about their qualifications. It's like they're following a script and a "one size fits all" formula before they even get to know you. IMO, there are really good people doing this work but they are few and far between and VERY expensive. There really need to be more people who are really CALLED to this work - and don't simply see it as job they can virtue signal about.
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Mine is covered by Medicare, are you on any kind of insurance, Meh?
Hope you won't start out believing in obstacles you haven't found proof of yet.
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Hi Hops and Skeptikal,
I've thought about asking counselors up front but I would be lucky to find any near me at all. I do not consider myself right-wing I'm actually old, low class and sort of not into either political parties that much. I don't qualify as a conservative Christian or whatever doesn't matter I just come here to complain in fact everything annoys me these days. Like every little task annoys me. I am glad for getting stuff DONE if I FORCE myself to do it but my brain revolts. I just five minutes ago forced myself to find some clothes in a box and some part of my brain spontaneously shows me this image of me just having the meeting naked. Honestly this is not something I want to do but some recess of my mind seems to think everything is just more effort than it's worth. Wow, the value of one's time and effort huh. Anyhow I didn't get any usable responses to the emails I had sent to the counselors all I asked was are they taking new patients under the health coverage I have that is it.
Traffic makes me nervous too and I've been driving on side roads for the entire time that I've had my car. Only went on the freeway once. Actually eventually that is something I should get used to again maybe but then again I don't think traffic is worth it. I live outside the Seattle area and I think it's rated one of the worst places in the nation traffic wise and I am a bad driver and I can't afford to fix anything so yeah. F that.
I don't like teledoc for therapy. I get it that it works for some things but I think it's just another way human consciousness is getting sucked into the etheric neverland.
Agreed Skeptical I do think there are some people that are into what they are doing and they have an area of specialty and they are likely good and yes it's the "top-tier" type of healthcare. I've got the drive-through gas station version of healthcare though at best. Oi, I shouldn't think about it too much I have a lot to do in the next 12 hours.
No there really ARE obstacles Hops. I do have bad health insurance but also I don't live in the city right now and I haven't been into the city for a very long time. And I am not going to drive to a park and ride, catch a bus and another bus maybe in the rain... go to an appointment with a rando stranger counselor and then do a whole slog of a commute back.
Look I know that part of what I do is my brain hates everything. I actually am noticing that EVERYTHING seems hard. But the thing is I doubt it's worth it. I am going to lose my health insurance anyhow so I don't know why I was even bothering to look. There is someone I think does therapy out of their house nearby but it doesn't seem very legit to me. Then again they probably need the money and I think the insurance pays for it. Can't recall. I don't want to think about it anymore.
It's 1:20 am here. I am very wide awake but I need for force myself to wind down soonish. Maybe I should clean and make garlic bread and get off of the internet but also I was trying not to eat past 8 pm and I seem to be not sticking to that rule this week. Oh well.
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Thinking about it. Yesterday I was procrastinating by looking for a therapist I am not kidding I think that task is something I should not have been doing because now I can think of other things TIME SENSITIVE ones which I should have been doing which were more urgent. Then again sometimes everything feels urgent and sometimes everything does need to get done ASAP of course that is also a consequence of being a procrastinator. Something yesterday had me feeling sad and stressed out and I guess that is what prompted me to look but I am going to most likely not have that insurance for long so reflecting on it now IT really does not make sense. I'm just wondering if I wasn't adding 2+2 yesterday. Maybe not thinking clearly then again one doesn't always know when one is not thinking clearly.
I really wonder how much procrastination is linked to anxiety and GAD.
- I WAS procrastinating.
- I think I also had a sad feeling night and that was probably motivating me also.
It's kind of both. Things CAN be both.
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Things can definitely be a combination of feelings Meh! Trying to separate them, to simplify sorting them out, is work that can be worth "it".
There is no "should" about driving on the highway, IMO. No one judging you or me, due to our dislike or anxiety about it. No report card; no grades. If you LIKE the slower pace of backroads vs highway, go for it! ENJOY it! There is always so much more to discover and appreciate on the backroads (once upon a time, the "highways" of the past).
We all have a list of "shoulds" in our brains - whether it's just chores, self-care, things to do for others, pets, whatever. When that list gets overwhelming, it helps me to start from what I WANT, which could be the smallest, easiest thing on the list or a major project, with unexpected difficulties we can't foresee.
Shoulds are some kind of societal pressure tyranny, the way I see it, most of the time; unless it's something like you shouldn't stick your hand in the fire coz you'll burn yourself. We "should" conform to fashion; we "should" be model thin (and consequently weak); we "should" workout & exercise; we "should" always only eat healthy food (WHAT?! NO CAKE????) should-should-should-should-should...
I'm really not interested at all in the shoulds that get pushed at people. I ignore them (at my own risk, of course) to an extent that allows ME comfort in my own skin, and respect for my autonomy; freedom as a person. So, I don't let myself go to either extreme on that scale of "shoulds", but would fall where I can handle it, as a life-long non-conformist. And I don't judge other people where they fall on the scale either. Everyone gets their own choice.
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Hear, hear. Botha youse.
I wonder if there's a Village within a half hour of you, Meh?
The #1 volunteer service ours does for people is drive them to appointments.
Transportation's a huge obstacle, even to access crappy care. I believe you about how real the obstacles are. And how frustrating.
www.vtvnetwork.org has info.
hugs
Hops
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I'm gonna add....
My T helped me identify a toxic worry worry worry coping strategy, I didn't realize I depended on......it robbed me of joy.
It was exhausting and didn't change outcomes, though I believed it was the thing saving me, bc that's how I'd survived.... worrying my way through everything.
T pointed out an alternative strategy.
Do what I could, then put the story on the shelf.... meaning, once I'd done every possible thing, I could do, to resolve my problem....I could choose to stop thinking about it, and turn toward the joy in front of me....
Or....
be present in the moment, opposed to worrying into the future, which drained my batteries, kept me in fight or flight reactive mode, which shut down my frontal cortex processes of reasoning and creative problem solving. I really needed access to reason and creative problem solving skills!!! That required calming my brain and Nervous System, which brought my entire brain back online. Fight or flight shuts down access to frontal cortex....think of maybe seeing a tiger. Amygdala fight or flight brain acts to evade and survive that tiger. Higher brain wonders if it really sees a tiger, or is it just shadows and a truck if the light, kwim?
With some emotional distance, it made sense and improved my response and ability to respond by expanding choice and ability to bring about the best possible outcomes, IME. It restored choice, I guess is more accurate.
I think that was as important as the rest, but everything was layered and somehow built a solid foundation.
I'll say this.....it felt like a lot of moving parts, at first.....it felt overwhelming. I beat myself up for forgetting things I knew, but forgot when upset, bc old defaults needed to be reset. I got better at being kind to myself, which speeds everything up, IME.
Once concepts and new habits became less alien ....they morphed into familiar tools. sometimes chose those tools. That felt amazing and I wish I'd not worried about internalizing them, bc it took up space I could have used more productively.
Having said that.....the way I processed was the way I needed to process. The "setbacks" weren't bad or good, even though I judged them so. Noticing judgement was part of changing it into curiosity. It wasn't a switch I could flip and turned out to be exactly like early days in martial arts, but without a stern instructor bringing my focus back to the present moment, again and again, bc I did notice doing things wrong and despised it. It hijacked my brain for a while.....only frustrating me and slowing progress.
Curiosity was the cure. Tweaking mistakes, instead of judging and catastrophising, was revelation and joy. Beating myself up was detrimental to learning BUT provided clues to my inner world, not that I understood, at that time.
Looking back, I notice how hard I was on myself.
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I'm gonna say something about what I received, from therapy, but didn't know was possible or something I'd find helpful.
The number one thing, that helped, was observing trauma/past/present with enough distance.....I experienced it without fighting/flight/freeze/fawn brain taking over. I could observe it with my entire brain online, helping me process it. This was huge.
Second....the choice to focus on joyful things, while refusing to drain my batteries on rumination, sadness, regret and fear became something I could choose or not choose.
Not that there aren't ups and downs. There are.
Not that the injustices are ok. They aren't.
What's apparent is .....I don't have to give my energy to things I can't change. I admit to spending most of my time, trying to change things, I couldn't make peace with in my past. It was painful and I have compassion for myself. I choose better for myself, as I can.
Sometimes I choose to spin my wheels ruminating, but understand I gave up better things to do that.
My first productive therapy session began with a list:
1. Embrace self compassion over and over till it became familiar.
2. Replace judgement with curiosity. All judgement gets dropped here.
3. Embrace radical acceptance.
4. Release outcome.
That's how I answer your question about expectations of therapy and a therapist.
The thing is, a therapist you connect with will likely not be someone else, on the board, connects with.
Your experience will be your own, boat. Likely, you'll be surprised at how things unfold, and that can be perfectly ok, IME.
If you research different types of therapies...some will make more sense than others. Making your preferences clear, in communication with possible therapists, can help dial in matches, I'd think.
Lighter
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Lighter, I'm vicariously appreciating this descriptive explanation you offer Meh.
It's distilled so well it's clear. Thank you, and kudos.
hugs
Hops
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Thanks, HopsđŠ
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From my point of view life is surreal. I really haven't felt like things are normal or real for quite a long time. Today was browsing a few job postings locally and one of them was for some receptionist type thing so I look it up and it's a psychiatry office that does ketamine along with other stuff I don't know what that stuff even is. Then I look up the address on Google maps and it's an old house not even a business office. Or at least one of their locations shows an old house. These are the weird jobs and businesses that exist outside large city areas. This is the weird fringe. Okay anyhow I look it up on YELP it's a bunch of people rating it really low. Wow the reviews make it sound like anyhow it sounds scary like it would not even be a reliable paycheck. So I am accustomed to working for pretty large businesses I guess. I mean pass. But it does tie into the previous stuff I had written about counseling therapists etc. but also my stupid insurance called me today asking if I needed help finding a provider and they could not locate one. I focus a lot on irritations. I mean it's practically like roling around in poison oak over and over again and maybe I need to stop doing that. But like I said I just find everything in life to be so weird these days. And end of this distraction. No more. Moving on. LOL and I keep reading and someone is saying one of the therapists told his wife to have an affair... I mean this is weird stuff. Really strange reviews the therapist teling the husband about the wife's session content. idk
Okay well looking out the window having a what the fuck moment and going back to where I was before I started wasting my time looking at these yelp reviews. See?
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I do see.
It's like you have a straight objective but can't prevent your bright mind from getting involved, and the tangents become equal in importance, so the trip gets so much longer.
Actually describing myself and my ADHD, though. It's inefficient but interesting. Much worse with age but I'm trying to recognize and make room for the dancing elephants in my home.
hugs
Hops
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"A 2021 Clinical Psychology Review meta-analysis found gratitude helps mild cases (10-20% mood lift), but severe depression or wired-in GAD? Barely dents it â maybe 5% if youâre lucky, often nada."
5%-20%
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https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2377281/
I guess amphetamine was once given for PMS? Looking at the history of pharma before prozac era sort of puts it all into bigger perspective. Not much changes really.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5288077/Heroin-cough-cures-yesteryear-revealed.html
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Valley of the Dolls, was the blockbuster novel of women's Rx fixes in the late 60s. They made a movie of it, too. It's quite the "mirror" of past & present women's pysch & emotional issues. Life has been surreal (in moments) for quite some time. The Rolling Stone's "Mother's Little Helper" fits in there musically, along with Grace Slick's "White Rabbit".
Very strange time to be alive and aware of society, politics, and values back then.
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Yes, I've heard of Valley of the Dolls though I haven't watched it.
I like seeing all the old advertisements just wish the small text was more clear/less fuzzy.
https://mindfreedom.org/kb/view-d171/
"Burroughs Wellcome (sold meth) eventually merged with Glaxo to form GlaxoWellcome, which then merged with SmithKline Beecham to become GlaxoSmithKline (GSK). So, in a sense, Burroughs Wellcome's legacy is part of the modern pharmaceutical giant GSK"
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Been journaling/brain-dumping a lot the past few days in terms of writing to myself. And it's very obvious to me that a great portion of it is at times negative and at other times it's mostly inquisitive or sometimes merely trying to organize and stay on task. Those are the modes I tend to write in I think. The thing about negativity is I know it is 1) sometimes truthful so filled with some truth & 2) sometimes distracting waste of time to think about things negatively 3) maybe even stops me from moving forward but I'm not sure about this as a mechanism I think it's a tad too simple to say negative is the problem in and of itself it could be a symptom etc or just real life 4) it can seem like it is the problem 5) what am I typing here 6) am I wasting time right now. Oh my point. Sometimes within the negativity there is some kind of aspects that are useful maybe. I'm confused. Maybe I have OCD of the brain. Maybe on Monday I should make a doctors appointment for GAD and try to take some pills I don't know. I think I'm just going through a bad moment which I have many. I mean even if I recognize that there is negativity I STILL feel confused it's like okay yeah I see it but I'm not sure what to do with it and in fact maybe I shouldn't do anything about it and just see it as a symptom of stress and disappointments. Bleh. CBT is not for me it's just not I know it's not. Okay I am just going to see that yes I am having negative thoughts which I just COMPLAIN and rant a lot while I journal. And maybe I should just not judge that stuff. Should I just have compassion over it. Do that radical compassion junk and be like okay these are thoughts. They are passing thoughts. It's a theme right now. It might not always be the dominant theme. Sigh.
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Bleh. CBT is not for me it's just not I know it's not.
It's good to have clarity, Meh. Lots of alternatives to CBT. I can't read lately....not sure why. If you'd like, I'll mail you my copy of You Can Heal Your Life by Louise Hay
I've meant to read it ever since my T said it's a great multi-tool, if one has use of one tool, iho, of course.
Okay I am just going to see that yes I am having negative thoughts which I just COMPLAIN and rant a lot while I journal.
I couldn't see what was there, behind the judgement...what was real....what was unhelpful unconscious belief until I just sat with my thoughts in curiosity. It was a starting point
...it was the start of suffering less, IME.
And maybe I should just not judge that stuff. Should I just have compassion over it. Do that radical compassion junk and be like okay these are thoughts. They are passing thoughts. It's a theme right now. It might not always be the dominant theme. Sigh.
Sounds like a new plan, Meh. We know what old habits bring. Why not try something else?
Short list of helpful habits to consider:
1. Extend tons of self compassion.
2. Release expectations.
3. Drop judgement and replace with curiosity
4. Embrace radical acceptance.
5. Remember 1. while practicing new habits imperfectly. Everyone is practicing. Even 100yo monks.
Journaling always helped me clarify and distill confusion down to manageable truths too, Meh.
Lighter
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Thoughts are just thoughts, here today gone tomorrow.
Thoughts are NOT YOU; not who you are. They're something you do. Like rubbing your nose.
You get to decide who YOU ARE; and you don't need a wall o' thoughts to have place to breathe in-out as you.
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- Having a heightened day of extreme narcissistic crisis creation.
- My work week M-F is like 55 hours of work-centric stuff, on the clock, commute etc.
- Today the N is losing their fucking mind.
- All I have been able to do today is 1) shower 2) eat 3) think about clearing my voicemails 4) started my laundry. I really just want to shut down and take a nap.
- There are lots of threats happening. I am literally just eating food and typing this and I am getting threats.
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I'm telling myself this:
"Your Goal: Disengagement, Not Resolution: Your goal in the moment is to end the interaction or remove yourself, not to resolve the underlying issues."
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And I did sleep for quite a long time and police showed up knocked on the door. I talked with them the cops gave me weird pressure tactics and then they left without doing anything at all. I had to ask them for the case report number and their non-emergency phone number. It's weird that they aren't required to write that stuff down and leave it after all the crisis bullshit they actually participate in causing.
One of the pressure tactics they used was they said they had to serve all the so many thousands of people in the community. I thought it was one of the weirdest things a cop could say. Like dude IM NOT DETAINING YOU I DIDN'T EVEN CALL YOU. But since you're here give me the case number fucker.
I can't really concentrate on anything at the moment. I should go for a walk for the neighbors to gawk at me after the police showed up here.
But hey there is no crime in progress, I didn't call them, they left. They said some weird ass shit to me. They're really odd I mean I haven't had to deal with cops much at all. Well never I've never had to talk to cops before. There were two of them and one guy kept saying something about how he "wouldn't lie" to me. And I thought dude you're weird who even talks like that.
Anyhow that was unsettling and I think I should go on my walk at some point.
They kept asking me the same repeated questions and claimed I wasn't answering.
I just repeated "my mother's an alcoholic she says lots of weird stuff".... "my mother's an alcoholic she says weird stuff all the time."
In the end I really don't wanna fuck around with cop bullshit.
Then the cop said to me "you're clearly in crisis" ... I'm just thinking well all I've done for weeks is do this work week which ends up being about 50 hours with commuting and all. I'm literally just trying to organize, destress, wash my hair, wash my laundry. I'm just doing existence stuff.
Now I'm just trying to externalize.
I wonder what the police report will say. There's not even a disturbance. Whatever. Moving on. I need to stop OCD about this.
They didn't Floyd me. You never know what the hell is going to happen when two male cops show up with all their vest gear crap on.
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- The good news is I started a new job just over a month ago. The bad news is I have way too much bullshit in my life to function almost.
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I have to re-iterate this to myself again "Your Goal: Disengagement, Not Resolution: Your goal in the moment is to end the interaction or remove yourself, not to resolve the underlying issues."
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Yikers, how upsetting. Sorry you had to deal with a cops surprise.
Wonder if somebody called in a welfare check?
Hope you're doing better now, Meh.
Hugs
Hops
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Disengagement, not resolution.
That's everything, isn't it? I think, maybe, it is.
I'm sorry your mother is spiralling, and lashing out. Calling the police was a way to get your attention, and you realize you don't have to keep giving her that attention. You have choice, Meh.
I picture you building new rituals, in the spaces your mother takes up.
Morning rituals around whatever brings you joy.....be it tea, stretching, listening to the morning chorus of birds ....feeding birds ...bathroom rituals, skincare, etc.
Congrats on the new job, and intention to let go, instead of resolve.
You remind me to find a new place for my poem, which I'm moved to share, here, every so often.
Without a word, she let go.
She let go of fear.
She let go of judgments.
She let go of the confluence of opinions swarming around her head. She let go of the committee of indecision within her.
She let go of the 'right' reasons.
Wholly and completely, without hesitation or worry, she just let go.
She didn't ask anyone for advice.
She didn't read a book on how to let go.
She let go.
She let go of all the memories that held her back.
She let go of all the anxiety that kept her from moving forward.
She let go of the planning and calculations about how to do it just right.
She didn't promise to let go.
She didn't journal about it.
She didn't write the projected date in her day-timer.
She made no public announcement.
She didn't check the weather report or read her daily horoscope.
She just let go.
She didn't analyze whether she should let go.
She didn't call her friends to discuss the matter.
She didn't utter one word.
She just let go.
No one was around when it happened. There was no applause or congratulations.
No one thanked her or praised her. No one noticed a thing.
Like a leaf falling from a tree, she just let go.
There was no effort. There was no struggle.
It wasn't good. It wasn't bad.
It was what it was, and it is just that.
In the space of letting go, she let it all be.
A small smile came over her face. A light breeze blew through her.
And the sun and the moon shone forevermore.
Here's to giving ourselves the gift of letting go.....
There's only one guru ~ you.
I love that poem.....and notice how little time, I have, for other people's nonsense. L as and less. It does feel like letting go.
I also notice the choices in every moment ...for instance....focus on the intense heat and approaching heat stroke, while watering trees
OR focus on the relief of icy well water over my head, the sound of the birds and relief of the breeze. It sometimes feels like a magic act, I've learned to perform.
Lighter
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Thanks for sharing poem Lighter. Maybe I'll print it and keep it in my purse. It has an invocation quality to it.
Thanks Hops.
Woke up at 5 AM on Sunday. I didn't get any exercise yesterday, all I wanted to do was lay in bed and hug my bed comforter. Honestly kind of "hiding from life" but nothing going on is anything that I feel like I'm a part of. Well maybe after I get the coffee through my system I will go for a walk. The N bullshit typically starts at 9 AM ish... So maybe I have 2-3 hours of peace.
I'll print it and keep it in my purse. Because I am sitting here picturing myself doing it but I am also picturing all these problems I am going to have this upcoming week and wondering when I will get time to do anything. Drinking coffee, doing anxiety brain stuff, and okay open document copy paste print and fold and stick it in my purse. I'll just hold on to it like a security blanket.
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Yeah I just got a call from a "Mental Health Practitioner." I told them I saw my mother and my aunt weaponize social services against my sibling and that it's really nothing new. My mother tried to make my brother appear insane. He was definitely fucked up but he was never insane.
I don't even have drug problems and never have.
Reminding myself be neutral, disengage, try to be polite. Even when I am grumpy and annoyed try to stay polite. It's really hard sometimes.
Am I angry /am I utterly bored? I think I should really try harder just to be bored.
I choose boredom. Apathy?
I do have several important tasks I need to get done today.
Also I did go out for a walk so there's that.
I can try to be more apathetic towards drama and not be apathetic to how it impacts me.
Narcissists don't want calm, relaxed, stable, functional.
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A trick I was taught....
when people, in positions of authority, say dumb things......
treat it as an opportunity to educate them.
Like you're talking to a child .....calm, simple, very short.
Also .....nobody can do/think 2 things at once, so choose the thing you'd like to do/think, and focus only on that, maybe.
Worth a try.
Lighter
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And.. Incoming I just got a threatening text from my Aunt. Haven't heard from her since my brother kicked the bucket. That's the only time she bothered to call me and I didn't want to hear from her then. Had nothing to say to her. She had nothing kind to say to me. Man I haven't had any reason to think of her in a while.
Deep breathing.
Perhaps I will mark it as spam and pretend I don't know her.
Let me see I think I haven't seen them in, well it's been over 10 years I think.
Nice to know all the fam is talking shit about me. But actually that doesn't matter.
This is the aunt who claimed my father molested me in court records for my brother's divorce. Something which my aunt made up and never happened. Yeah that was an ugly lie.
She wants a piece of the drama. I can picture her now just waiting for any tidbit like a vulture.
Meh, Blocked and reported it as SPAM. Was that a flying monkey that just flew into a wall... maybe.
I'm not responding to her. It's only a text. Cheap talk that fills some need for drama.
God what day is it anyhow Sunday? It's still only Sunday.
I look forward to Monday sort of I mean at least it's so busy at work I can't think about anything else when I'm there really. Contemplating my nicest and easiest outfit. It's 6:00 PM...
So
- cops
- MHP
- Lying Aunt
Good ol' mom is on a role this weekend.
I have to find my makeup. And order something new.
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A truck I was taught....
when people, in positions of authority, say dumb things......
treat it as an opportunity to educate them.
Like you're talking to a child .....calm, simple, very short.
Also .....nobody can do/think 2 things at once, so choose the thing you'd like to do/think, and focus only on that, maybe.
Worth a try.
Lighter
:) sounds good Lighter
it is important to think positive stuff. It works sometimes. Not ALL the time but sometimes it does shift stuff.
I am just going to do simple tasks tonight and as I do them I am going to enjoy the feeling of being organized afterwards I hope. :)
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((((Meh)))))
If the mother-trouble starts around 9am, does that mean phone calls
from her?
Hoping if that's the case, you can ensure you have caller ID and control
when you are interrupted by her (or your aunt).
I would find it impossible to tap into morning serenity if someone who
was disturbing my serenity and causing anxiety were calling me then.
Maybe I'm guessing wrong about her patterns, though.
I'm glad to know you have a new job and hope you'll prioritize taking kindly,
gentle, loving care of yourself. Treating yourself the way you wish to be treated.
Mothering yourself in a good-mother way. Not waiting for the turnip to shed tears.
You deserve it.
hugs
Hops
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It's important to give your energy to what you want more of.
Starve, the things, you want less of.
I like the strength in your posts, Meh. A lot.
Lighter
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for F sake... I'm at work opened my personal laptop on my lunch break for a quick personal task ... and of course I see court documents about my mother ATTEMPTING TO get a restraining order against me and looking at it for 60 seconds looks like the judge denied it as not criminal and not a legal issue
I am going to close it go back to my personal tasks and try to do some deep breathing. This is a new level of messed up even for my N mom. I wonder if it's also related to aging but I don't care.
And I will have to look at it closer tonight. Have never seen one of these before.
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I'm sorry, Meh.
A toxic family survival dance.
I hope you can keep your balance and dance out of her orbit.
I do think reading it all carefully including any fine print is a good idea, even if on a quick glance it sounds like the judge didn't buy it. Just be sure.
Using the legal system to bully someone is really wrong; my brother did it to me and tore my life up for several years. It was hell. I hope this one goes nowhere.
What a shock. Breathe, be well anyway.
hang in there,
Hops
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What Hops said, Meh.
All that, and.....
there can be comfort in pd's showing everyone what they are.....
what they do.....
what they've been doing, to others, all this time...escalate, till they gain compliance.
I'm curious, if the thought of having a TRO, on your mom, creates feelings of comfort, dread or something else, for you.
That's more involvement....more fodder....more time stolen from your serenity.
Escaping, her orbit, is better.
As I read your posts, I picture you pulling yourself, from a very sticky swamp, Meh.....
and you're mostly out.
Lighter
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It's Saturday and I am just now scrolling through this restraining order court document thing. I thought the judge had denied it. I have no idea. What is written on there is really awful. It's very weird. And she is using the phrase "our family" in a way that intentionally excludes me entirely from everything. She is really bat shit crazy. Well if I have to do a hearing I am attempting to do it by phone first thing in the morning so I can get it over with and go to work. She listed anxiety and depression on the form like these are character flaws that I have. This is just a very weird situation. But like everything it will pass. I just don't see why I have to defend myself against her accusations. I think she is asking for a court ordered mental evaluation.
Lighter "I'm curious, if the thought of having a TRO, on your mom, creates feelings of comfort, dread or something else, for you."
It all just stresses me out and it feels like a negative distraction. The way I think and feel about the courts is that I don't really want to participate in this stuff. I just want to move on. I don't want to THINK about it that much. I want the hearing to be by phone and I want it over with. I don't have any legal stuff on my permanent record and I don't want anything on my record. I think it's gross that she filed these papers to begin with.
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out the "WHY" of stuff but I don't even want to do any of that anymore.
I've got other things I have to do today. I don't see why I have to prove my mental health in court because she is forcing me to do that?? I've got other things going on in my life it all feels like it's piling on.
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Oh.....such a familiar cadence to the PD legal dance. Forcing one to disprove negatives, with no consequences, for making false allegations.
And, for what? Her actions are nonsensical.... bc they make no sense.
As Brother Mud said to me ..... it's a waste of time trying to make sense of something that will never make any sense.
It's good you stopped trying.....
stopped needing it to make sense, Meh. That's a big step towards healing, IME.
About the legal documents.....you have to answer, bc I've seen TROs granted when the Defendant didn't show. No one needs a restraining order on their permanent record.
I will say this, about representing yourself at any hearing......if the Judge seems perplexed at your mother's actions towards you.....
don't be afraid to ask that Judge for a TRO barring further harassment from your mother. Judges can, and have, granted TROs, in my affairs, without my filing a thing.....I didn't even have to ask. The Judge clearly understood what needed to happen. He granted a TRO. It was in the record.
Your mother might well suffer a consequence for her actions. Maybe this hearing will be a needless bother. Maybe it'l won't.
In any case, there are rules to speaking in Court and to Court officers.
1. Speak like you're talking to a very young child you want to understand you.
2. Do not tell your listener what to think, feel or do. Instead,refer to your evidence, before hand, then state your strongest documented facts, without expectation. You want your listener to come to their own opinions, that way, they might punish your mother for you.
3. If anyone says something ignorant or profoundly stupid about you, treat it as an opportunity to educate your listeners....as though you're helping them.
Do not get angry, exasperated, or react in any way. You remain calm, steady and self assured....you understand what's happening with your mother. You'll help the court understand too.
Don't interrupt, or say negative things about anyone. Always address your mother/everyone, in and out of the room, respectfully and with compassion.
Keep your statements super short. Always. Eye on the ball..... it's easy to ramble when an unhinged person is involved, IME.
No rambling. The court will have a very narrow focus, and you'll do well to figure it out, and address ONLY that, IME.
Once it's over, it's over. Your mother will try to muddy the water. You'll stay focused. The Judge will not be pleased with nonsensical behavior in their court.
As you said....this shall pass.
Lighter
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"it's easy to ramble when an unhinged person is involved, IME.
No rambling. The court will have a very narrow focus, and you'll do well to figure it out, and address ONLY that, IME."
Thanks Lighter. I'm reading your thoughts. I appreciate it.
I went from asking WHY to feeling dismayed and asking HOW DID THINGS GET SO BAD which is probably just another version of asking WHY do N's do what they do. Now I am just rather tired. Had breakfast. Going to do personal work today I guess. Try to be organized. Try to be proactive and take action steps instead of laying in bed all day. I will get some stuff done. And I will feel slightly better for getting some stuff done.
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Your mother has her limits, as far as how far she'll escalate to gain your compliance, goes, IME.
You likely have an idea how far that is. I find getting slapped around in Court dulls a PD's energy......so don't fear the hearing. Might be a big surprise.
Focus on your evidence, like .....
1.Texts from mother and her flying monkeys.
2. Notes
3. Calendar of her unhinged calls, actions, etc.
4. Your calm responses.
Best not to mention anything you can't back up with evidence, IME. Just talking about PD behavior can make us appear unhinged IF we aren't backing it up with evidence, IME.
Your facts will inform the theory of your case/ your story, future actions, bc you're documenting, in case you get dragged back into court again.
Remember, when you put the negative stories on a shelf (fig.) you're able to pick up joyful things instead.
I find focus, on one thing, is a joyful activity. Doing dishes, putting a bird feeder out, discovering a happy bathing ritual....can all be walking meditation, IME. Doing that, often requires I pretend to put the negative stories on an actual, imagined shelf.
Whatever works for ya, is right for you, ((Meh.))
Lighter
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Stellar advice from Lighter, Meh.
My disturbed sociopath brother's testimony was disorganized, insinuating, and evidence free. (He acted as though he was buddy-bonding with the judge while telling him wild lies about me.) But, my lawyer and I had a rational, documented and detailed rebuttal to every one of his delusional accusations. And three character witnesses. One was a widely respected 90 year old classics scholar, professor emeritus. The judge and both lawyers knew his reputation and nearly melted when he walked in. And my brother's irrationality was obvious to everyone.
The judge put bro in his place and after an hour, he drove out of my life. For good. I actually felt sad for him as he walked past us on his way to the parking garage. He looked like the loneliest person in the world. (He didn't see us in the car.) My lawyer said, I understand. I felt it too. But if you see his truck going past the house again, call the police. And change the locks right now. I've never seen my brother since and the weight of several years of battling him and all the damage he did just poured off my shoulders.
Something the case did for me was the recognition that bullies don't always win. He'd bullied me all my life and his last effort failed completely. I behaved with dignity and clarity in court.
Lighter's tips are golden. Hope you'll go in confident in the truth. Don't focus on the outcome, focus on being your own ally in the present moment.
hugs
Hops
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Some simple facts will be your best defense.
SHE tried to initiate contact with YOU, more times than the reverse. Phone calls & texts count as evidence, not just visits.
YOU don't want any contact with her, so a restraining order on you, is misplaced.
Never mind the outrageous lies, delusions etc that issue forth from the mouth of the PD via a silver tongue, that claims to have been put upon & wronged so aggregiously. I KNOW the fear that they'll be believed over you; you must do your best to put that aside - because a) it's not true and b) it is an active element of how YOU have been abused. Many people have seen manipulation and can see through mind games that have abuse or their own self-interest at the base.
She initiated this showdown at the OK corral. Time to tell YOUR TRUTH, and stand up for yourself. You can trust the facts and trust yourself. Not having been involved with the legal system before - I have no experience of how much I might be able to trust the discernment of the judge.
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At work.
And yes this bit: Just talking about PD behavior can make us appear unhinged.
It is crazy/crazy making to try to externalize and process it.
I've been so busy and my life is so inconveniently set up right now that I am not getting a lot done. I will come back to this and reread everything and just give what you guys are saying a few minutes to sink in because you all are making very very good points.
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Noticing what's not working in your routine...changing what you can to create more comfort and ease.....
paying attention to your inner world.....
internalizing the fact-you're no longer a small child at your M's mercy.....
extending yourself compassion and curiosity, consistently....
are daily care rituals you might step into, as you leave past rituals and belief systems behind, Meh.
As Hops said.....you can be you're own best ally. You will come to realize....you are your own best ally.
The crazy making pd behaviors can make us feel crazy, but must not make us act crazy, IME. PDs depend on unhinging us...they depend on our blurting out things they've done, truly, and giving the Judge reason to believe both parties are unstable, unreliable and....
9 times out of 10, the PD story makes more sense than our undocumented facts about the PD behaviors, IME.....
bc those behaviors make zero sense. It's really unfair to be a 100% truth teller, then labeled "non credible" by the court. Ouch. So painful, IME. That's why we look at our documents and craft our story around what we can prove
THEN zero in on what's relevant and not st important to the case at hand. It helps to pretend you're helping someone else pull things together.....as an observer, not as Meh fending off her unstable mother, kwim?
What advice would you give a younger niece, in this scenario? Get advice from folks with a clear perspective,candy lean on them. It's reasonable to feel overwhelmed. It's ok to ask for help. It's normal to become emotionally disregulated, then pull it back together and get the job done, better than you imagined you could.....and you will, Meh.
The court doesn't want the entire family history.
The court wants to focus ONLY on the facts in the Complaint before it.....and the facts each party can prove. I'll repeat this many times, bc it's easy to lose perspective, IME.
Remember that, when considering firing off an email or text. Evidence is evidence, in both directions.
She, with the best documentation, (usually) wins.
Judges will have space to punish the PD if we remain calm, rational and hold compassion for the PD, without fail.
You can state unflattering truths.....but you better sound like someone who wishes she didn't have to....
bc your mum is mentally unstable, but is still your mum. Judges want litigants to love, respect and still care about their crazy mums, IME, even if they're corrosive and egregiously harmful to you.
After living under siege, for so long ....
after fending her off, to the degree you've become accustomed.....
it will be a truck to find, Express and consistently extend compassion for your mother always, in word and deed, throughout legal skirmishes.
Even if your mum produces unflattering texts, etc, from you...... it's ok to be human, admit you made emotional choices in that moment, and get back quickly to the facts.
Keep it super short.
No shame or guilt.
Only human recognition of anything unflattering......you will bounce over it, unfazed, Meh.
You will take Hops, Amber and me, and our filters, into that hearing and SEE what's really there. Not what your mum is driving you towards, bc her nonsensical/ilu hinged reality is no longer yours.
I know you're exhausted. I know you have little bandwidth for this skirmish.
It's ok. It's normal. It's something you'll get through. and put behind you.
Lighter
PS. You will have moments of fear and dread. Typically, there's a sweeping energy of self protective energy that follows, and focuses you on what needs to be done to rebutt and restore sanity to the situation.
And....the PD might manage to sway one dumb bunny court officer, but she won't fool all of them. Trust the facts will shine a bright light on the truth, esp if/when the PD manages to produce something that appears to be negative on your part.
You still remain calm, sensible and rational. You treat it as opportunity to educate the court with your evidence and compassionate demeanor, (Meh.). All will be ok,even if it's not ok, IME
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Feeling barfy today. Have upcoming court crap. Taking an extended lunch off of work to do this.
I have prepared zero defense mainly I guess because I checked out emotionally from this crap. Now I've got two laptops side by side here. My crappy old one and also a loaner.
Quietly panicking 1) wondering if I should ask for a continuance but also 2) I want to get it over with.
I tried to consult with "free legal service but none were available"...
Telling myself they don't expect me to be a lawyer. But also this is emotional procrastination hell. I will be going into a private conference room in a bit here. Half of me feel like this is serious and the other half of me knows this is so much awful BS a in "they can't be serious."
Anyhow I am just venting.
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Got through the court hearing. I went to work for two hours. Left & went to do hearing way early because I was nervous and I was trying to figure out until the last moment how to handle everything was considering asking for continuance because I wasn't able to contact/obtain legal counsel. Then I ended up waiting for probably two hours. I attempted to defend myself by directly addressing what she was saying.
I think the judge ruled in my favor as the judge was lecturing my mother but I feel a bit dazed and under the weather now. And the ruling the judge gave actually didn't sound clear to me at all because legal jargon and mumbling.
Even if I won my case I lost. I lost a few hours of badly needed pay at work and I think I had anxiety overload today.
My mother is so nuts she is doing this to torment.
I was so unprepared but I remembered not to ramble and I stopped myself a couple times and I think the judge could see I was trying not to waste time and ramble etc. I don't think I sounded unhinged but sometimes I talk louder because I feel I have to amplify my voice I hope it didn't seem like I was shouting.
And frankly I only had one main phrase maybe it was nonsensical. But I said something like "I want to make this clear I have never threatened her and I do not have a history of violence." I NEVER TALK LIKE THAT. "I want to make this clear" is not a phrase I ever normally use. I sort of hate that phrase because it comes from political speech even. But it's simple and I had to make one main point 1) I have not threatened anybody 2) I have no history of violence and anybody insinuating that without evidence is just being awful. Meh.
Then my mother tried to say I destroyed property but it was vague and non-specific. I told the judge I didn't know what she was referring to and it ended up being some nonsense from over a decade ago and the judge cut her off.
At one point my relatives more or less admitted they were doing the court thing to torment me and to teach me a lesson.
They just wasted my f'ing time. And I don't feel good and I tried to do this in-between working. I told my boss days ago I had an upcoming court thing and I wasn't sure how the day was going to go. She kept on saying it was find because she has coverage. I ended up leaving work at 10:30 because my nerves were getting to me and I was worried about technology etc. AND I wanted to transition from work-mind to court-mind.
I didn't make a lot of character accusations but I did mention "she is an alcoholic and she has mood swings" that was the most abbreviated way of me being able to say something ain't right here judge and I am dealing with a lot of shit.
I washed my face.
I am making sleepy time tea.
The place I am staying in is like grungy strip mall area.
Now all I have to do is set my phone alarm. Brush teeth, drink tea, drink water and sleep. And hope that water can flush out whatever bad feelings my gut. I woke up at 4:30 am today and kinda sorta went back to sleep. This day just feels like it was an insane effort for nothing but I guess I think I kept my record clean of everything and anything at least for today.
I'm tired am I repeating myself I don't know. uplug the teapot take pants of go horizontal shut eyes just give up on this day... tomorrow will bring new problems that have to be delt with...
too tired to function
tomorrow I might try to get to work early... yeah I think that's a good idea...
I testified under oath that my mother is an alcoholic with mood swings that is the worst I said about her. It's true and that's what she gets for doing this to me. Her crap and flaws on record. There.
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SIGH.
I know Meh. It's going to be OK.
It is never easy to have to go through these things. I think ya done good! Just breathe, rest, go about your normal life and don't overanalyze or beat yourself up about how you coulda, shoulda said x, y, z. That's just abusing yourself the way your mom wants ya to.
In a few days, after taking care of yourself, THEN you can safely process what you experienced and any results.
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I think you did great, Meh!
You worked with yourself to be your own ally, and it sounds like enough of the truth got through to the judge. All fingers and toes crossed for a good outcome.
I understand the stress and hope you'll keep taking care of yourself. You need PHamily, not just relatives. I'm sorry you've been through all this lately.
But glad you come here to talk about it.
hugs
Hops
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Sounds like it went as well as it could have, Meh. And you're right....there will be problems....COWs....crisis of the week, bc that's life.
What's also life, is you doing your best and trusting yourself to handle it, without fretting and spinning wheels trying to change it.
Two things about the hearing....
good job keeping things short l, and you're right .....your mother brought this on herself, so your simple truth is now on the record. She's an alcoholic with mood swings.
She demanded.....you responded, against your will, but she gave you no choice. It was a simple calculation, Meh. It appears the Judge understood.
IME, these kinds of expensive humiliations, for the unhinged trouble makers, are the end of the legal attacks....unless it's costing you more money than it's costing them humiliation.
You don't have to explain more, about it, at work. It can simply pass, and be done....sounds like your boss was understanding, and kind about it.
I'm very proud of the way you handled yourself. Feeling barfy is completely understandable....and normal.
Focus on calming self-care rituals, and work sounds reasonable, as well.
Lighter
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Thanks ladies.
Internet is slow and I'm tired but I read what you wrote. Appreciated.
This board at times has given me a little anchor.
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I think the unhinged litigants tend to admit they've brought a bogus case, once the Judge understands they're lying liars. They, the unhinged, do this, bc they have no shame, and believe they're entitled to punish and torment, without questioning what they're doing, IME.
Now it's in the court record. I'm hoping the case was dismissed with prejudice, meaning they can't file this case again.
Sleep heals us, Meh.
Lighter