Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lara on December 27, 2004, 06:50:22 AM
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Hello everyone,
Although my situation seems less serious than many of you are having to deal with, I wonder if anyone could help me deal with the confusion.
I had a lengthy romantic relationship with a guy with a lot of very narcissistic traits. For years I was his emotional and often financial support;he was very volatile,moody, and always facing one problem or another. I was out of control of my own feelings;I seemed to be programmed in some way to only respond to his needs.
Last Christmas he met a new woman, quickly became committed and moved in with her. By this time I was seriously depressed. I told him that we could not stay in touch as friends.
Most of this year I have spent trying to regain my emotional equilibrium, and succeeding to some extent, but also missing him. I have had absolutely no contact with him, and for eight months I heard nothing from him,even though he knew that I had been seriously ill physically.
Then out of the blue, three months ago, he suddenly sent me a text message to say he still loved me, and I have had two more since, the last one two days ago to wish me a Happy Xmas. I haven't responded to any of them...but I am so puzzled...why is he doing this now? It's like he is sending the messages in a vacuum, because he doesn't actually phone, or suggest meeting.
I feel confused;it's as if he hasn't noticed that I don't respond, or that we haven't spoken for a whole year. I also feel as if I had been coming to terms with the relationship being over, but that somehow it isn't in his eyes.
If anyone can help me understand what he's doing, I'd be really grateful.
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Hi Lara,
I had a similiar experience several years ago. My guess as to what has happened.....his other woman has gotten tired of his behavior and has kicked him out. My guess is that he had no other iron in the fire and so he has decided to see if there is anything left to get from you.
If I were you, and I know it's not easy, I would think carefully about how difficult the last 8 months have been and if you really are interested in rekindling a relationship that doesn't sound like it was very satisfying. The only time the N's in my life come around or are "nice" to me is when they aren't getting their needs met somewhere else. I read something on a web site about N's and I try to always remember it. It said something like "Don't worry when they are being mean to you but if they start being nice to you....run like hell because it only means they are setting up for something really nasty."
I don't mean to be rude and I know in our hearts we want to believe that they have changed or have finally seen what good people we are and want to make it up to us but in my experience, it is just that they think we are weak targets and they can get some more from us....money, support, sex, whatever!
I understand your feelings, I really do. It took years for me to stop missing my N...even after all the mistreatment. I know it was what others have said on this board...I really missed the man I first met..charming, loving, and caring but that was all a facade designed to reel me in and was not the real person at all. The real man was the one who borrowed money and when I refused to loan any more just stole it, blatantly cheated on me, etc. I had to mourn the wonderful man I thought I had met just as if he had died because he never really existed.
If it were me, I would completely ignore him and keep working on myself the way you have been doing. Wishing you well.
Eloise
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I agree with Eloise. His new woman probably set some boundaries on him, wouldn't give him money, broke up with him, or something. I believe he wants something from you (my guess is money). So he's starting to reprogram you through these mysterious messages to be curious about him. My advice: don't be curious about him and don't respond to anything he writes or says. He is not a good man and doesn't have good intentions in my opinion.
bunny
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Hi Lara,
I just wanted to be yet another voice out there that is saying the same as Eloise and Bunny so you can see very clearly by unanimity, what your ex. is doing.
You are right to question the "healthiness" of his messages. If they feel weird to you than it is for a reason. They are, and your intuiton is telling you that something is off.
I agree to keep ignorning. I don't know if you find this very hard (as gladly, you say you have been coming to terms with the relationship being over) but the initial contact after zero contact for a long while can be tempting.
If it is for you, just try to remember how strong you have been getting via the zero contact (there is nothing like it for healing is there!). When I did zero contact with my ex. I never dreamed in a million years I could have the kind of detached feelings from him that I began to have.
Zero contact changes ones perspective completely, and I'd be worried for you that contact with him again could run the risk of putting you all the way back to square one emotionally in regards to him.
Best wishes.
BlueTopaz
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Lara,
I concur completely with the posts above and want to emphasize the power of silence. Tempting as it is to even find out what he is up to, you run the risk of being sucked back in....Ns are clever and they'll revert to old sources of supply when an existing one has left and a new one hasn't been tapped into yet. You may want to read Flicker's posts from last week. It appears she had a similar situation with her ex-N and her experience sounded very painful.
I often now try to envision my ex-N like a shunt that wedged its way into my heart and mind, drained me of everything I had, then left me virtually lifeless.
Best,
bludie
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Hello, and thank you so much, Eloise, Bunny, Blue Topaz and Bludie, for your kindness in really hearing me and sending your support. It has really lifted me up.
A year of not speaking to my ex has given me the strength to not reply to his messages, now or in the future. I have a degree of self-protectiveness now which was totally absent during our relationship. At that time, for five years, I never thought of my own emotional wellbeing....I would quite literally have done anything for him,and somehow I lost my own character, which is quite a cautious and thoughtful one.
It has struck me that the text messages he sends me at random are so easy for him to send. He doesn't put himself on the line emotionally by phoning or by crossing the city to see me, he doesn't ask how I am or do anything to jeopardise his new relationship, and he doesn't even spend anything on me.
Another weird thing is that often the way he words these messages seems odd, as Blue Topaz picked up on. Often on the first reading they seem full of love and concern, but then as I reread them ,I see other possible meanings.(Maybe that's just me, obsessing.)
I am so annoyed with myself that after a year of no contact on my part, I still feel that he is in my bloodstream. I am doing what I feel is right, mixing with other people, working hard and well etc, so why does he still feel such a real part of my life? Your comment, Eloise, that it took years to stop missing your ex, was heartening for me because maybe I am not crazy after all, to still miss mine, and to know that I am in excellent company!
Another thing I have to get my head round, is that if the relationship was about him manipulating me, (and I really liked your image of a shunt, Bludie,) then were the good times which I miss,just a sham? Why would I love to feel again the way I (sometimes) did when we were together?And why do I feel mean, especially for not replying to his Xmas greeting, if there is a chance that he is just a total manipulative jerk, who never had a high opinion of me? (In fact,why is it so difficult for me to think badly of him, full stop?)
Thank you for letting me get all these questions off my chest! I feel close to tears writing all this down. Although in many ways I have a new strength these days, this break-up has really got to me, and for a far longer time, than any other I have ever been through.
THANK YOU SO MUCH AGAIN FOR YOUR KINDNESS AND UNDERSTANDING!
Wishing you all the very best,
Lara.
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Lara,
Kudos in letting this pass and not taking the bait. And you're wise, Lara, in acknowledging that the text message is a very one-sided, one-dimensional way of initiating contact. Not much of a risk or an emotional investment. The last few calls I received from my ex-N were queries about finances -- nothing personal or emotional. He instructed me to leave a message on his voice mail as if I was his personal assistant or scribe or something.
You're hurting, Lara, because you cared for him. And even though we realize the relationship was a sham, it doesn't change the emotional investment we made in that person. I believe this is what keeps me jammed up and remembering him even though he's not worth it and I don't want to...It hurts to have been duped. And because Ns are human beings capable of mimicking our own emotional landscapes, it led me to believe that we were soul mates because at first we seemed to have so much in common.
I, too, am relieved to hear other posters such as BT and Eloise reveal it took considerable time to get over their ex-Ns. Although I am making progress and am starting to heal, I still think of him often. Christmas was especially poignant being in the home we purchased and thinking of what could have been (and what he's now up to with his new squeeze).
But I bring myself back to reality with feedback such as Eloise's wise statement:
...I really missed the man I first met..charming, loving, and caring but that was all a facade designed to reel me in and was not the real person at all.
So with time, and the help of this board and counseling and books and journal-writing, and prayer/meditiation I truly believe I'll become a better, richer, deeper person after getting through this. I am remembering that when one is going through hell it's best to keep going to get to the other side. You are and will, too, Lara.
Best,
bludie
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I had a three year emotional relationship with a guy who was an N, though all I knew at the time I was in the relationship, I kept finding parallels between him and my mom - also, to be honest he didn't treat me well, so it may be different than your situation.
Regardless, one Thanksgiving he met another woman and he too became instantly involved and moved in. I continued to hear for the next month, from him, then cut things off. He called twice over the next year, both times acting as though, he was an old friend getting in touch - the first time I just sat on the phone dumbfounded and the second time, I just hung up. I haven't heard from him since. With all this said, I realized, that he called when he was too close to whoever he was involved with, or when he was going to make a move to get closer. It's strange, and I don't need to analyze it, I just needed to cut it off, say goodbye and move on to healing from the upset and to me, abuse. I have missed him at times, but for him to have done that, I know he really didn't care for me, and if I'm wrong about that, when he did call me, I believe he would have addressed it, not acted as though we were old friends.
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It's strange, and I don't need to analyze it, I just needed to cut it off, say goodbye and move on to healing from the upset and to me, abuse.
It must be good to get onto the non-paralysis of analysis stage. Alas, I still find myself rewinding the tapes, examining, classifying, verifying perceptions. In other words, I am trying to sort out what happened so I really can move on. I'm afraid if I'm not painstaking about this phase, it will happen again (hooking up with an N). And I'm really not up for that ever, ever again.
Best,
bludie
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Like Bludie, I admire your strength,New Person, in saying that 'I don't need to analyse it.' How did you manage to reach this decision, and to LIVE by it?
Although as I said above, I haven't spoken to my ex for a year, I do still think a lot about what happened and why...the same as you, I think Bludie, and I do feel for you. I also understand what you say about the fear of falling for another N; like you again, I felt so strongly that my ex and I were soulmates, that sometimes even now I wonder how I have managed to live without him for a year. There was a time when I thought my life would be over if I wasn't going through every experience and crisis with him.
I know that I have progressed and left a lot of the insanity behind,but I still feel somehow linked to him, even with only memories that are now over a year out of date. I sometimes wonder if this is because I don't seem able to have a consistent attitude towards him. Some days the narcissistic nature of so much of what he did (and is still doing now with these random messages?) hits me like a ton of bricks;but on other days I wonder if he was just misguided or out of his depth in the relationship. Can anyone suggest why it is so difficult for me to say, with Bunny, that he is just 'not a good man.'
Is it important for recovery (as opposed to self-protection in the future) to accept categorically that we have been duped by these people? And if it is essential, can anyone tell me how I can get my brain to this conclusion
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Thank you for your wisdom, and I send you my thoughts and prayers for a more peaceful and less tormented New Year.
Very best wishes,
Lara.
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Hi Lara,
It sounds like you might benefit from seeing a therapist. I found that having someone other than a friend ask me questions like "Why was that your responsibility?" or "Why would you accept treatment like that from someone?" was very helpful. I guess it seemed more valid to me than coming from a friend.
I experienced the same feelings as you...the ton of brick of things for one and also jealousy at his new relationship.....what was wrong with me that our relationship couldn't work when I tried so very hard and still he left.
I didn't have a date for a year. A friend had been trying to introduce me to a friend of hers for over two years but I resisted (various reaons). Finally, after nearly 2 years we did meet.
That was 12 1/2 years ago. We've been married 11 1/2 years. He is a WONDERFUL man and I can truthfully say that in that time he has never once called me an ugly name (he's never even said "you are acting like a B..."), he has never told me he hated me or threatened to leave me, he has been loving, supportive and caring and in all senses of the word, a true partner. We've had our disagreements just like anyone but they are resolved in a healthy way. Coming from my background, I am not sure how I managed to choose a healthy partner except that in those 2 years, I did a lot of soul searching, working on myself and hours and hours of prayer. I read a lot of books and I talked to a therapist.
I've always said that God had a hand in the timing of our eventual meeting. Once, I asked my husband what it was that made him want to marry me versus the other women he had dated. He reeled off a long list of reasons....."you are independent and have your own friends and your own interests and are willing to let me share those with you, you love to be with me but you don't expect me to give up my friends and interests and understand, even encourage, when I need some time with my friends, etc, etc... As my husband worked his way down his list, it became quite clear to me that had we met 2 years earlier we would have had one date and then he would have turned tail and run because I didn't possess the qualities he was naming before...they came after 2 years of hard work on myself, lots of introspection and examination....not of the failed relationship but of MYSELF. I had all of these problems (no healthy model of a marriage, desperate craving for love, zero self esteem) and had God not put this pathological N in my path, I don't think I would have ever gotten desperate enough to get help and make positive changes in my life. It was the only the sheer depth of the pain I was in that forced me to get help. For the last 13 years, I have thought of those 5 years of hell with my N as one of those "blessings in disguise".
I didn't write you all of this before because I didn't want to sound trite but after reading your last post I did want to say there is hope. And I don't mean hope that "you will find a man"....what I mean is, your life will change, you can be happy (with or without a man). You are on the right path. Keep working and don't be afraid to reach for professional help.
After I got some help, I eventually healed a relationship with my father (absent from my life for 15 years) that has been an enormous blessing to me...through him I got closer to my half and step-siblings who now are a huge part of my life. What I'm trying to say is...I didn't just "get a man"....I got my life back (or perhaps for the first time) and it is a happy one.
I landed here on this board because of a crisis with my mother. It was the one area of my life apparently I really feared to examine. My therapist said my denial was very, very deep. So back to the drawing board and work on this...which will again bring up old pain and issues but that's ok. I know there can be a great blessing at the end.
I truly wish you the best on your journey and hope that will look for a professional to be your guide.
Eloise
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Lara -
I broke up with my N boyfriend 8 months ago, and can relate to a lot of what you and others say, especially how you honestly felt he was a soulmate. I spent so many years constantly telling myself, "he's my soulmate, it must be a problem with how I'm viewing the situation or how I'm behaving," etc. Like many Ns, he managed to get me in a situation where I was alone - worked from home (I live overseas, and to have been able to be hired like a normal person, we would have had to marry... which of course he refused, using perfectly "rational" reasons!). It all changed when by complete chance - it all but literally fell into my lap - I got a temp position for a month at a wonderful place, where people *gasp* listened to me!
All of a sudden my seemingly perfect world came crashing down around me as I lived a sort of binary existence for a month: go to work, be appreciated, listened to, laughed WITH and treated like a normal human being. Get home, be denigrated, laughed AT, and treated like a worthless person who was lucky to be blessed with a man "willing and generous enough to take care of her."
And yet I can relate to what you say in your post, because I went through it just after I finally told him I was leaving:
I know that I have progressed and left a lot of the insanity behind,but I still feel somehow linked to him, even with only memories that are now over a year out of date. I sometimes wonder if this is because I don't seem able to have a consistent attitude towards him. Some days the narcissistic nature of so much of what he did (and is still doing now with these random messages?) hits me like a ton of bricks;but on other days I wonder if he was just misguided or out of his depth in the relationship. Can anyone suggest why it is so difficult for me to say, with Bunny, that he is just 'not a good man.'
Is it important for recovery (as opposed to self-protection in the future) to accept categorically that we have been duped by these people? And if it is essential, can anyone tell me how I can get my brain to this conclusion?
Those were exactly the questions I asked myself. The thing is, all of my life I've had pretty vivid dreams, including absolutely terrifying nightmares (I grew up with an NMom) and after my breakup, all of a sudden I stopped having the nightmares, and instead began having some of the most beautiful dreams of my life. This struck me as very curious, so one night I wondered in my journal why. Went to sleep and had a dream about my past relationship with my boyfriend! BOY did it ever jump start my brain to accepting I'd been duped and abused - I have never dreamt about anyone other than my mother and ex-boyfriend this way.
Basically, I saw us in a typical situation: him criticizing me for having no imagination when it came to planning weekend outings. Next to him was a blond girl with a nasty expression, who each time he criticized and said something just plain old cruel, would rip a leaf off of my favorite plant: a Chinese cane plant, which symbolizes life (that was one reason I'd bought it). She continued until the plant was all but dead (only the stalk remained), at which I finally said "enough, get out!" He stormed out, I was finally alone, and suddenly a new cane plant appeared!
Another simple yet eloquent dream I had post-breakup was of him feeding me poisoned soup every morning. Once I realized it was drugging me, I refused it and left, then found myself in warm sunlight, feeling totally free and happy. To summarize, I had not a single dream that said anything to make me want to return to him. So if you feel comfortable listening to your dreams, try that - they could give you insight on how your heart truly experienced the relationship, and that could help your brain get itself to the point where it accepts that.
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All of you are so lucky! I can't say good-bye to my ex-N and his N mother like you can. We have a child together. I completely stopped all contact between us about 4 years ago. The abuse had gotten so bad that they literally thew me over the edge with a nervous break down. Now I have PTSD(Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) because of them. I have finally started talking to him recently in the past few weeks. It's only because I am being forced to if I want to have any contact with my daughter. We need to "co-parent". Everytime I think of talking to him or hear his voice over the phone I have a panick attack.
Om Hadi
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HI again, please understand, it has taken me quite awhile to integrate what all my analyzing helped me learn. Today, I can say I'm not going to analyze it, because I spent time doing so, and believe I needed to - I may have reached a point of healing where I know for me, it's a closed subject - I lost myself, money, my emotional health and time - I could not afford to let him or the thought of him interfere anymore with my life. I hurt and was depressed and cried and didn't know what to do with myself for the first year, it was hard and I'm in my second year, so the distance the time put between us has helped.
The minute I catch myself starting to lull in the denial that allowed me to engage with him - as I approach new relationships - I give myself a time out and check in with what's really going on - and to be honest, I still meet N's, I just don't go out with them anymore, (or at least not for long).
The little girl in me still feels some sadness at it not having worked out and a part of my heart feels hardened - with some anger, I believe - the hurt is there - I'm just hoping that time will help my heart to match what's in my head and I'll feel more whole again.
Thanks for sharing with me and Happy New Year, blessed with love, health and wealth to you too.
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Eloise, I hope you receive the help you need here too but I want to tell you how much I for one value your wise voice!You have that certain something that can reach the heart of people.People can get a lot out of what you have to say so i hope you keep contributing.
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Hi everyone, thank you again for sharing your feelings and experiences, and for understanding!
Because my friends were never able to uinderstand the total hold which my ex had over me, (and still does in some ways,) I have not shared the confusion which I feel with them for a long time now. Perhaps your idea of talking to a therapist is very wise,dear Eloise, because at the moment my reactions to what has happened just go round and ropund inside my own head.
I also like your idea, Lavender, of looking for answers in my dreams. I will certainly consider that.Shortly after we broke up I had several dreams in which he was walking away from me or being cold,but to actually ask for answers in my dreams would be something new I could try.
I really appreciate you all sharing with me the length of time it is taking you to recover from these relationships;it is sometimes hard to admit isn't it, how much these people have screwed us up;I often feel that I 'should' have got over this by now.
Please feel the warmth and care I feel for you, and the strength you have given me.Many of you here have suffered a lot more than me;my ex was never physically abusive to me, and sometimes I have trouble deciding if he was abusive to me emotionally or not. Does withdrawing and being cold for several days at a time count as abuse? Does regularly arriving an hour late count as abuse? Does lecturing someone and not listening to their opinions, but then later claiming these opinions as their own, count as abuse? Does telling someone that they are ugly, but not to him, count as abuse? Especiaal y difficult for me to decide one way or the other after getting two more 'friendly' messages over the holiday period.
Thank you again for sharing. This will be the year when we all get stronger and stronger!
Best wishes,
Lara.
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Especially difficult for me to decide one way or the other after getting two more 'friendly' messages over the holiday period.
Hi Lara,
His intent is just that. To try to confuse you and weasel a way back into your emotions.
And why do I feel mean, especially for not replying to his Xmas greeting, if there is a chance that he is just a total manipulative
jerk, who never had a high opinion of me?
From having read your comments, part of it might be that you don't necessarily see him as a "bad" person, yet you have chosen to ignore him, and this might make you feel a bit bad and guilty. In other words, you seem to be struggling as to whether you see him as a "bad" person or not, so are not certain if the way you reacted to him was appropriate.
I sometimes wonder if this is because I don't seem able to have a consistent attitude towards him. Some days the narcissistic nature of so much of what he did (and is still doing now with these random messages?) hits me like a ton of bricks;but on other days I wonder if he was just misguided or out of his depth in the relationship.
Can anyone suggest why it is so difficult for me to say, with
Bunny, that he is just 'not a good man.'
It was, and is the same with me in not thinking "he is just not a good man" about my xN. There are different types of narcissistic behavior as well as different degrees of narcissistic behavior, from the psychopathic narcissist (the worst kind) to others. Because of this, and because of the hundreds of variables in personalities of N's, N partners and life situations, everyone's situation/experience with an N has differences.
In my case, my ex. had N traits. Because he had the emotional immaturity of a child as N's do, he behaved poorly emotionally in the relationship. Interspered with a loving, intelligent, kind, considerate soul, was someone who gave the silent treatment, was distant for weeks, perceived rejection where there was none. I walked on eggshells as not to set off any issues he might find "sensitive" (which were truly benign things), and when we needed to talk,he twisted everything around to be my fault. We had many of the imfamous circular conversations N's are known to have, and things like gaslighting, splitting, projection (these terms are explained online) and other N ego defenses were a very regular thing.
But.... I also saw in this person, someone who did not want to hurt, but was out of control emotionally. I saw someone who was living with so much fear inside and who was in such deep emotional pain, so much so that he developed many traits of a personality disorder. I actually saw the tormented struggle he went through to try to think and react differently on the spot in some individual interactions we had, only to find his long-time programmed gut terrors taking over, causing irrational behaviors yet again. I was, and am sad for this, more than I am angry at him, or think badly of him. But even the saddness I feel for him is from the safe distance of having ended the romantic relationship.
Instead of my thinking "he is not a good man", I just think & know... He is not a good man for me...
This is just my feeling for my situation, and I only mentioned it because, I'm not sure, but it sounded like it at least might be a bit like yours. Maybe in the end you will come to the conclusion that you ex. is a "bad" person in many ways. I just wanted to be a voice that showed a different side for anyone who might feel differently. I have read other's situations and do see a lot more blatantly and harshly violent and abusive behavior, where I can easily see how it would have them feeling very differently about the N's in their lives.
My xN's main thing was that emotional intimacy scared the bleepers out of him, because when you open yourself up to someone on that level, you are the most vulnerable at that time. Being vulnerable means seeing past a facade to the real person, flaws and all. This is something that an N can't take. The concept of non perfection = thoughts of rejection, and failure, and their false image being permeated.
So, all this wild emotional junk came up at seemingly random times to me, when now I see there was really a "rhyme to the reason". It was at those times that he needed to create turmoil (which he knew very well led to emotional distance) because we were getting too close emotionally for him and it was bringing about his narcissistic defenses in full force, which was excruciatingly emotionally painful for him. In hindsight, how and why he reacted in specific situations is a lot more clear to me.
But I also did experience anger. I have been angry at him directly, indirectly, and vented my anger related to a lot of aspects of the whole relationship in general. That I don't think he is a bad person does not by any means, mean that I didn't have anger, or there were not consequences for his way of being.
Even with what I said, I also want add a small note to be careful regarding thinking of your ex. as misguided. We get so jumbled up inside from dealing with N's that we come out not knowing which way is up or down. So we might be doubting our own feelings as to how bad things were, or whether some of it was our fault. Thinking that an xN is not a bad person based on self doubts of the situation and self blame, is not an accurate or healthy thing. If your feeling of inconsistency toward him is based on your own self doubts about how bad things were or if you could have been different, then I would say this is a slippery, and unhelpful slope to travel down. But if you can clearly see that your xN's behavior had nothing to do with you, that there is nothing you could have done to change it, and that it was horrible, unacceptable, irrational, hurtful, unfair, etc. in and of itself, and then you wish to say he was misguided/ill and you don't find him a bad person per se, this is completely different. This second way, is exactly how I feel about my xN.
Is it important for recovery (as opposed to self-protection in the future) to accept categorically that we have been duped by these people? And if it is essential, can anyone tell me how I can get my brain to this conclusion
What is important to realize to move forward, I think, is that these people were and are ill with a disorder, that what happened was not our fault, and that there was or is nothing we could have done to change who they are or what they did. Second, examining via introspection (in a non judgemental way) why we ignored red flags we saw early on, what we told ourselves that allowed us to put up with specific things, and as long as we did in many cases. Just self healing and learning about our own internal state. Third, to teach ourselves out of what we learned through introspetion, and what we learned in reading about personality disorders and abuse, to recognize the red flags for future relationships.
sometimes I have trouble deciding if he was abusive to me emotionally or not. Does withdrawing and being cold for several days at a time count as abuse? Does regularly arriving an hour late count as abuse? Does lecturing someone and not listening to their opinions, but then later claiming these opinions as their own, count as abuse?
According to literature on it, yes. Do an online search on "signs of emotional abuse" and other keywords like this, and you will be able to get some info. regarding what it is said that constitutes abuse.
Very much wishing you the best...
BT
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Does withdrawing and being cold for several days at a time count as abuse? Does regularly arriving an hour late count as abuse? Does lecturing someone and not listening to their opinions, but then later claiming these opinions as their own, count as abuse? Does telling someone that they are ugly, but not to him, count as abuse? Especiaal y difficult for me to decide one way or the other after getting two more 'friendly' messages over the holiday period.
Yes, being withdrawing/cold for days at a time is cruel. It's very controlling for one thing. Q: was he willing to admit it was cruel? Was he willing to admit that it was not a productive way to behave? If yes, then he has some integrity and maturity. If no, then you are with someone who doesn't mind hurting you terribly. If he was "okay" with this behavior then we are looking at someone who lacks empathy and who feels little or no inhibitions about hurting his partner. In a relationship both people are supposed to respect each other's vulnerable feelings. I would call him "very selfish and immature" according to the above description. And I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of his immaturity.
bunny
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my ex was never physically abusive to me, and sometimes I have trouble deciding if he was abusive to me emotionally or not.
I grappled with this, too, Lara. The book I am currently reading by Lundy Bancroft: Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men delves into this in Chapter 5 ("How Abuse Begins")
Not to quote the entire chapter but she goes onto say that: "The lines where subtler kinds of mistreatment end and abuse begins includes the following actions:"
He retaliates against you for complaining about his behavior
He tells you that your objections to his mistreatment are your own problem
He gives apologies that sound insincere or angry, and he demands that you accept them
He blames you for the impact of his behavior
It's never the right time or the right way to bring things up
He undermines your progress in life
He denies what he did
He justifies his hurtful or frightening acts or says that "you made him do it"
He touches you in anger or puts you in fear in other ways
He coerces you into having sex or sexually assaults you
His controlling, disrespectful, or degrading behavior is a pattern
You show signs of being abused
SIGNS OF BEING ABUSED COULD INCLUDE:
Are you afraid of him?
Are you getting distant from friends or family because he makes those relationships difficult?
Is your level of energy and motivation declining, or do you feel depressed?
Is your self-opinion declining, so that you are always fighting to be good enough and prove yourself?
Do you find yourself constantly preoccupied with the relationship and how to fix it?Do you feel like you can't do anything right?
Do you feel like the problems in the relationship are all your fault?
Do you repeatedly leave arguments feeling like you've been messed with but can't figure out exactly why?[/list:u]
I'm no therapist and this may be over-analysis, however, the ones I highlighted were very applicable in my case. I would also add to the list chronic lying. This has a way of keeping one off balance until discovering the truth. I actually thought my ex-N was an honest person because I try to be. One of the horrors in the aftermath of our breakup was to discover how dishonest he had been.
Each case is different. And as I said, Lara, I've grappled with whether I made mountains out of molehills. However, another telling factor was my friends' feedback. Once I came out of the gas, got honest with them, and shared some of what was really going on, they were appalled. I got so lost -- my perceptions became distorted -- that it was hard to see the forest from the tree for a while. 20/20 hindsight has made this much clearer. So what were your friends and family's reactions toward your ex-N? That could be a clue.
Above all, Lara, I think it's good that you've dismissed and ignored his attempts to contact you. That's most important. Keep us posted.
Best,
bludie
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THANK YOU SO MUCH.I am thinking over all your wonderful replies and will be in touch soon.
Sincerest thanks again,
Best wishes,
Lara.
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Hello Everyone.
Thank you again for all the thought you put into your replies to me.They have been so useful because not only have they given me a lot to think about, but they have helped to break the loop I was in where my own thoughts were so repetitive and just going round in circles.
Blue Topaz, when I read your comments I was comforted because your situation sounds as if it was similar to mine.You also seem to have looked inside my head and read my thoughts! As you say, one problem I have is that if my ex's behaviour was not THAT bad, then I feel very mean in ignoring his messages.It is difficult for me to disentangle what was actually going on between us;as I examine different things that happened during the r/ship, many of them look different to me now than how they did at the time. I was so totally mesmerised by him that I accepted everything he said to me at face value,but maybe he was conning me from the start.If so he was certainly extremely convincing. I did not have an outsider's view to validate my glowing opinion of him, not because he tried to cut me off from my friends, but because I cut MYSELF off from them.I was aware immediately I met him that he was 'making' me (I know it was my choice really) act completely out of character. I did not want my friends to tell me that I must be crazy to do the things I was doing,eg to give him large amounts of money,to spend all my time trying to sort out his problems, even at risk to my self.
I still have to sort out in my head how he can send me these festive messages as if we are friends;he seems to have forgotten (?) the fact that when I asked him for help, he was happy to walk away and let me get on with it. How long do you think he will continue to send these messages at random, if I never respond to them?
Bunny, in reply to your questions,when he used to withdraw for several days at a time,he did not do it in response to anything in particular I had done;it was more like he had gone into a depression.He told me that he had always done this;but no,he didn't show any awareness of how it made me feel.I remember one day we had arranged to meet at a restaurant;he was in one of these 'moods' and we sat in silence for a good hour.When I tried to start a conversation he was monosyllabic in reply or grunted at me.When I told him that if he wasn't going to say anything I might as well go and do something else, he seemed totally surprised, and unable to understand why I would want to go. If I ever told him that he was selfish,he always said that that was how he was, and he couldn't change.
Bludie, thank you for posting the list of abusive behaviour;I am trying so hard to look at it objectively.It's really difficult...I spent so long looking at him through rose-coloured spectacles. Knowing that you understand helps me a lot. And like you, I was also lied to...some of them I found out about;I will never know now how much else was not true either.
Blue Topaz,your suggestion for the steps I can take to get myself through this and out is just what I need.
I am so thoroughly fed up of feeling this way about somebody who in many ways was so bad for me. I really want this r/ship to be a chapter in my life that is closed, but at the moment it comes into my head far too often. I sometimes feel that this r/ship has really traumatised me like no other in my life.
I know I'm repeating myself,but thanks so much again for your support,BT, Bunny and Bludie. There are many other comments in your posts that I would like to think about and respond to in the future, but I have to close for now as I have to go to work.
Warmest wishes to you all, today and for the future,
Lara.
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I still have to sort out in my head how he can send me these festive messages as if we are friends;he seems to have forgotten (?) the fact that when I asked him for help, he was happy to walk away and let me get on with it. How long do you think he will continue to send these messages at random, if I never respond to them?
How many more text messages has he sent? Is it possible to block him entirely from your cell phone? He'll stop sooner or later if he gets no response whatsoever. My ex-N had a very short attention span.
I sometimes feel that this r/ship has really traumatised me like no other in my life.
I can totally relate. Even my divorce wasn't as painful or detrimental as the breakup with my ex-N. I think it's because this N-relationship triggered childhood baggage plus I invested heavily both financially and emotionally - not to mention the changes it brought about in my daughter's life. I see my way clear by realizing that this relationship holds the key to many insights and opportunities for personal growth. Y'know -- the no pain no gain mantra -- at least this is what I am telling myself!
Lara, you are truly making progress. Don't give into the messages or give up on yourself.
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Dear Lara,
What are you doing with his messages? I've found that the sooner I delete them the less I am tempted to reply.
Pearl
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Laura,
I'm reading and feeling your pain. I get this sinking feeling, thinking about How I'm trying to get to the place of ending my 26 yrs with an N.
Guest said
I kept finding parallels between him and my mom -
When I first met my N, we both had hurt feelings about our mom's.
This may have been one reason why we had a connection.
I'm working on myself, not allowing myself to fix and forgive. Going around the same mountain expecting the road will change. With an N, getting off their mountain is the only way to move forward.
He can be mean like my mother and so I guess I became numb to this and decided I could deal with it.
Now that I found a Name for these types, It has allowed me to read and understand so I can move forward.
Leaving before there was this understanding of the N, may have left me comming back over and over. I want a clean break, I get one chance and need to make my frame of mind, so I don't come back.
My mother issuies are minor because I have NO Contact.
I left home and Jummped in the frying pan with MY-N. Decided I was going to walk thru the fire and come out the other end never to return into another frying pan.
This is my goal, I'm older and wiser and with reading the stories here I know I will learn how.
Lara, I don't know with having children with an N, if it's possible to do this. I have my work cut out for me.
I'm worried that I will have the great pull to go back, as I see so many others have. It helps to keep reading and trying what works for others
Keep sharing......onlyrenting
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Hi Lara,
I've been grappling with my ex-N for a while and so haven't replied sooner, but your situation seems very similar to mine in the way that they have treated us. I don't know whether to be pleased to find another example of this kind of behaviour, so justifying what I have gone through or sad that someone else has had to suffer the same! I don't know if that makes sense or not, but there you go.
I don't know what words of advice I can offer, just that my ex-N has done everything yours has so I know what you are going through. I still have some contact with him due to the fact that I am expecting his child. I feel pathetic and sad that I allow him to reduce me to a wreck still, yet at the same time wonder if I'm not being too harsh on him. So I think that all those painful things are just a part of the disorder they have and not our fault. If you ever want to talk then email me or something, if you just want to share experiences etc. Maybe together we may be stronger!!
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Now I have PTSD(Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) because of them.
Om Hadi
I also have ptsd. I just wanted to ask whether you visit a support site specifically for ptsd sufferers, as well as this one. I can recommend a very safe, very supportive place, if you need one, either to find out more about the condition or just to 'swim with the other dolphins'. I hope posting this address is allowed.
I am not sure if the link will work, but I hope it does. :?
http://www.bein.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?
Sorry, Lara. Not ignoring your posts, but I agree with the other replies you have already had, and can't add much to them; just more of the same. Grappling with my own detaching problems, on various fronts. But wishing you well.
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I did not have an outsider's view to validate my glowing opinion of him, not because he tried to cut me off from my friends, but because I cut MYSELF off from them.I was aware immediately I met him that he was 'making' me (I know it was my choice really) act completely out of character. I did not want my friends to tell me that I must be crazy to do the things I was doing,eg to give him large amounts of money,to spend all my time trying to sort out his problems, even at risk to my self.
It was the same for me. I, not he whatsoever, cut myself off to a degree as not to have to discuss the relationship with friends & family who I knew would really be surprised at me. I felt a sense of shame around how I was allowing myself to be treated but then always just pushed it out of my mind. It was a bit easier to keep quiet about it because my best friends (who would likely ask most, and just know when something was wrong) and my family live 5 hours away. The friends I have here are of a different caliber and it was a bit easier to be more vague.
Lending money was never an issue in my case (he has loads more than me) but just the same I "sold my soul" emotionally, 100 times over. Like you I also idolized my xN, and just having that much awe for someone alone, not to mention the way I let myself get treated because of putting him on a pedistal, was out of what I thought my character was too. I was so surprised at myself yet at the same time I couldn't break out of feeling and being that way.
After it all, I realized that it both was and wasn't out of my character. It was not like the part that was very conscious to me, the part where I could describe myself and thoughts about things. It was like the part that was buried deeper in my subconsious and not as obvious to me. The subconscious part was me just as much as the conscious part was, but I just couldn't see it. It is only becoming more well known to me as I continue to introspect.
I still have to sort out in my head how he can send me these festive messages as if we are friends;he seems to have forgotten (?) the fact that when I asked him for help, he was happy to walk away and let me get on with it.
Many N's have trouble with, or no empathy, and therefore have no true emotional investment. For some of them relationship interactions are more of a mechanical process (get what I want) void of any emotional pondering. I think with some N's it just does not even register with them that they have or are hurting anyone. They are way too self absorbed and disordered in perception.
On the other hand, I think some N's do know. I think my x with N traits did have empathy for the emotional hurt he caused me, but to admit it most of the time would feel like a criticism on him and feel like being very vulnerable, which would open up all the N defenses. It was less painful for him to project blame onto me or completely ignore the fact he'd caused that much pain in the first place. Just act like nothing happened. I don't know which you feel might be true in your case, or maybe you
have some other ideas, too.
How long do you think he will continue to send these messages at random, if I never respond to them?
I think it depends on the individual. It seems that many try for a few months, and some even for a couple of years, but with contact much more sporadic as time goes on.
Other N's might go away quick enough, particularly if they find a new person in their lives. But then when you least expect it, they might pop up again years later! When whatever relationship they are in is over and they have no other "options."
Some violent N's seem to never give up. They stalk and harrass afterwards. But I think you can many times (with exceptions) forsee the potential beforehand with these types. I was sure my xN would not be this type, and he has not been.
Best...
BT
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Hello and thank you! It felt so good to log in this morning (I don't have regular computer access) and hear from you all. With so many aspects of this situation I have felt that my feelings and reactions were bizarre and crazy.I wish that none of you had suffered these things,especially when you sound such fine,loving people, but there is comfort and real hope in being able to share these things.
BT, Cadbury,Renting,Pearl ,October and Bludie,you are all in my thoughts.I really feel for those of you who because of children,have to maintain some level of contact with the Ns. I liked your comment,Renting, about getting off 'their mountain' to find healing. For a long time I have believed that the fact that I
a) had no contact with my ex,and
b) could not understand or relate to a lot of his behaviour,
was an obstacle to my recovery.But I'm now just STARTING to realise that I can only make sense of it by looking at the situation now, the facts and not the history.
I do delete his text messages quite quickly Pearl. I'm not tempted to reply to them but when they arrive there is a period of time when a stupid part of me begins to hope that he has feelings for me again. It's crazy;I fear getting them,but also fear never getting another one! (I have enquired,but it's not possible to block particular numbers from my cell phone.Changing the number would also be difficult as I work for a large company where a large number of people use it.)
Thanks for your comments about lack of empathy,BT. It shakes me that he seems to have added me to a list of people he can blithely send Happy New Year messages,with pictures of champagne corks popping, and signed 'Lots of Love.' What planet is he living on?
I so appreciate your company as we go through these experiences. Take care everyone.
Warmest thoughts,
Lara.
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> I'm not tempted to reply to them
Good for you, Lara! I was weak on New Year and replied :oops: . Then I found myself in a shaken world where I've started to doubt what is good and what is bad.
> when they arrive there is a period of time when a stupid part of me
> begins to hope that he has feelings for me again
What kind of feelings do you have in mind? (Forgive me if this sounds rude). Can you be sure that he really had some?
Last two weeks I was working on myself. I was filtering what was known for sure - facts that I've found about his life and his actions - from all the staff that he implied, or simply lied about, or I assumed.
Take care and keep in touch,
Pearl
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I have been reading and learning from this MB, so want to thank all of the honest, caring, healing people here for what I have drawn from your collective wisdom.
I am adding to this thread because it struck such a chord with me and I had to chime in. Someone in this thread said that the breakup with a N person was worse than their divorce ... and I can fully relate to that. Not only is my breakup with my exN worse, but I did not even love him as much as I loved my ex-husband. I kept wondering and wondering WHY is this breakup destroying me, why did this relationship devatate me, why is it taking so long for me to recover from someone who cheated, lied, was NOT the person I thought he was, why can't I just dump him the way he dumped me?!!!!!
And then I began to find out about the traits of NPD and suddenly I have felt a weight lifted off my shoulders. All of the pain he brought me, the frustration, the way he made me feel like I just wanted him to GET OFF me, because he was so hard on me, teasing me, copy catting me, making fun of me, all at MY expense over and over and over. And how I sat there laughing it off, being a good sport, when all the while, feeling like there was something horribly wrong. I now understand.
I have also been away from my exN (lived together for 6 years) for well over a year and am just now feeling a sense of recovery. I can fully relate to the length of time it takes, despite the rationalization that goes through ones head, it takes understanding to fully let go. Now that I feel I finally understand what happened, who this person was and was NOT, I am prepared to let go.
But there is compassoion in my case. I can't tell you all the times I said "for some reason, I just feel sorry for him" ... dunno, but it was as though I saw him as someone who was fighting demons and will fight demons for the rest of his life in his head. That is where the compassion comes from despite the way he hurt and destroyed me. I will move on and find happiness again, and eventhough he is with someone else now, I don't "buy" that he is happy, b/c I truly don't think he is capable of it.
Sorry for rambling. I am truly appreciative of all the insights here and wish you all recovery and healing. Thanks to Lara for this thread, too.
Terry
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But there is compassoion in my case. I can't tell you all the times I said "for some reason, I just feel sorry for him" ... dunno, but it was as though I saw him as someone who was fighting demons and will fight demons for the rest of his life in his head. That is where the compassion comes from despite the way he hurt and destroyed me. I will move on and find happiness again, and eventhough he is with someone else now, I don't "buy" that he is happy, b/c I truly don't think he is capable of it.
Terry, welcome to the board. It really sounds like you've come a long way in a year. To have compassion for those who hurt us, and to eventually work toward forgiveness, is landmark. IMO, it's when we are y free and have truly recovered. Thanks for sharing. I can relate to the breakup with the ex-N being more painful and difficult than with your marriage. Same for me.
Best,
bludie
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Thanks for the kind words of encouragement, bludie.
I have read a bit on forgiveness and learned and realized that forgiveness has to do with *me* not the other person. You wear anger like a ball and chain and it can drain you just like the N did! You continue to focus on the other person, to focus on yourself as a victim, and to give all of your emotional power away. When you figure out how to forgive, you stop being owned by anger or by the other person. It's not an easy emotion to conquer, and I still have these waves of anger, but I think they are sometimes directed at me, for not probing or figuring this out sooner.
One of the best things I have read is that " anger and resentment are like drugs -- they rarely do you good, and they usually do you harm." They may serve a purpose in the beginning, but after a short time, you need to manage those emotions in order to recover and heal.
One of my true regrets is that I just did not know or understand what was going on and just didn't know what to do to help myself or him. I thought my inner resources were enough (I am a strong, resilient person in other respects of my life). I kept saying "it is as though he systematically set out to destroy me" but it was all so subtle and worked on a cumulative basis over such a length of time.
In any event, I have invested a lot of time and energy to understand what happened, and it is finally paying off.
I wish you well. I have read some of your posts and they are spot on.
May your road to recovery continue,
Terry
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Terry,
I thought my inner resources were enough (I am a strong, resilient person in other respects of my life).
So true. I thought most of my ex-Ns problems were related to addiction. Unfortunately, that was the tip of the ice berg. I also had a bit of the starry-eyed 'love will conquer all' illusion but that faded quickly after getting engaged and moved in together.
You continue to focus on the other person, to focus on yourself as a victim, and to give all of your emotional power away.
I am really trying to break free of this. Wednesday marked 4 months since breaking it off with my ex-N. In some ways it seems long ago. Other days the wounds still seem fresh. I want to learn and grow from this but not become so immersed that it defines me.
I have read a bit on forgiveness and learned and realized that forgiveness has to do with *me* not the other person.
Again, so true. For some of us, like bunny said in another thread, it's somatic. Wish I could transmit what I've learned to my heart. It's taking me a bit longer than I'd like but I'll keep plugging along. And you, too! Thanks again for your post.
Best,
bludie
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Love and hugs to all of us who are getting through this day by day, together! Before I started this thread I was afraid of posting my thoughts and feelings honestly: I felt that I was either being crazy or over-reacting to the aftermath of my relationship. But as I read the replies,I realise that I am not alone after all,and that there are fine people who know just what it's like to be in this situation. I am so pleased to 'know' everyone on this thread;and I hope that we can all take pride in what we have achieved so far in our recovery.
( I LOVE your description Pearl, of a 'shaken world' after you had contact with your ex. Mine phoned me early on Tuesday to say that his girlfriend has had a baby.First time he's spoken to me for a year. He started to tell me all the details of her name etc,at which point I put the phone down. Feel rude that I couldn't congatulate him...yes I know! Have been shaking as I write this,and crying at night.)
Sending my love,
Lara.
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Mine phoned me early on Tuesday to say that his girlfriend has had a baby.First time he's spoken to me for a year. He started to tell me all the details of her name etc,at which point I put the phone down. Feel rude that I couldn't congatulate him...yes I know! Have been shaking as I write this,and crying at night.)
Lara, I hope you will consider not taking any more of his calls. Although the birth of a child is wonderful and miraculous, he had no business calling to update you...cruel. Either he doesn't get it (how this would make you feel) or he doesn't care. I encourage you to stop subjecting yourself to the pain of being in contact. It sounds as if you still have feelings for him, which is understandable. Protect yourself and the healing you've done throughout the past year by not allowing him to invade your life again. Even a phone call can send us reeling.
Best,
bludie
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Mine phoned me early on Tuesday to say that his girlfriend has had a baby.First time he's spoken to me for a year. He started to tell me all the details of her name etc,at which point I put the phone down. Feel rude that I couldn't congatulate him...yes I know! Have been shaking as I write this,and crying at night.).
What a jerk. He is a huge narcissist, it's all about him. I hope you hung up on him (couldn't tell if that's what happened). I feel sorry for his baby. Please find ways to block him from contacting you. He is very bad news and has zero to offer you in any way, shape or form.
{{{{ Lara }}}}
bunny
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Laura: I have a great book at home, "Who's Pulling Your Strings"? by Harriet B. Braiker, Ph.D. She lists several tactics to those people like us exposed to the manipulations of Narcs. I read with interest your ex called to rub it in about his new relationship, his new wife, his new baby after not speaking to you for a year. What a trip. At any rate Dr. Braiker list several telephone tactics that I have employed that really work that you might want to try on any narc that tries that "oh look at what I have and you don't have in your life". (1) Just say when they call, it can be a narc family member or other significant other " I need to put you on hold for a minute or so. Excuse me I will be right back" Just leaving them hanging! LOL I really had fun with this one! (2) "I have to ask you to hold the line for a minute. Excuse me." (3) "I need to put the phone down for a minute, so and so I think is at the door". (4) "I'm going to have to call you back in a few minutes, Thanks." Cuts their water off every time! LOL Patz
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So sorry for that experience Lara.
I just wanted to second what Bludie & Bunny said.
Guilty for not wishing him congratulations? Conversely, I say he is lucky that he didn't get a "congratulations" from your foot to his behind for that phone call. As has been said, it was a cruel & self serving act.
Even if I believe that N's are disordered (vs. evil people) I still believe they are not exempt from consequences when they do abusive actions. You absolutely did the right thing in putting down the phone on him. Now that you have an idea of how he is capable of calling you to hurt you with the carefully chosen details of his life, hopefully you can see he's calling beforehand & not pick up, or even call the phone company to have the service where you can block several numbers, etc.
If you ever do happen to pick up the phone by accident, you could always just put it down as soon as you heard the first note of his voice, with zero listening to anything. These are the consequences he will have to endure from his N acting out toward you.
Something more you can always think about regarding any wonderings of a character change on his part.... If his girlfriend just had his baby, what is he doing re-contacting & e-mailing you several times, fooling around with endearing hints? Actually, it is known that one trigger for acting out in abusive type personality people is when their partner is pregnant.
One can see again, even from yet a different perspective, how disordered in thinking he still is.
I also find it very, very sad for N types like him themselves, but wherever we are helpless to effect any kind of change, all we can do is protect ourselves.
Take care....
BT
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Lara, I am so sorry you had to endure your exN's cruelty, there is no excuse for what he did, it is completely pathological behavior, and it is a shame that he inflicted himself on you that way. I also support you 100+++% in the way you handled it by putting the phone down while he was in mid-sentence, you not only did the right thing, but you saved yourself from the possibility of even more hurtful behavior, and hopefully, by doing that, he may now know never to contact you again.
It is astounding that he felt the need to contact you like that and only proves that he has not and will not change. Take heart in knowing that. You're missing the man you met long ago, not the one who resides in his body today.
Hang in there.
Warmly.
Terry
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Dear Lara,
I hope, and wish with all my heart, that you are doing better now.
I fully understand you. Believe me, you can make yourself stronger. I felt guilty last summer not doing what ex-N asked me for. But then I stopped myself with the following words: I feel better not doing this (as you feel better not listening his updates), hence I am doing favour for myself. Everything else is the next item in my priority list.
Love,
Pearl
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Hi everyone,
I've been wanting to post for several days but had to wait for enough time and privacy with my computer.
I was feeling pretty low when I posted last weekend, but now I am feeling stronger. The replies I received from you,Bludie,Bunny, Patz,Blue Topaz,Terry and Pearl have really made a difference!
After I got the 'baby' call from my ex I was so shaken. In my mind's eye I had so many images of him and his gfriend, closer than ever and smiling with the new baby.As you said Bludie, I kept wondering if he just didn't 'get' how it was likely to affect me to receive that news with no warning and no meaningful contact for a year.
But when I read all your replies, I felt so supported,so validated in the action I had taken (putting the phone down on him.) They brought me real comfort. The most profound thing is that after reading your opinions,something seemed to switch itself off inside my head...it was the mechanism that for over five years has produced an excuse for anything he has said or done, such an automatic reaction that I didn't even realise I was doing it. I don't know if I'm making myself very clear;what I mean is that when I logged off from this site that day I suddenly felt some degree of detachment from him, for the first time. I am PRAYING that this will continue;I don't want to be back where I was before,and I'm quite fearful of that.
Thank you for your advice about protecting myself from future calls;I certainly will.I didn't check the number before picking up on that day, because after a year I never thought he would actually call again.
There is something very bizarre about all this;I don't know if anyone can explain it. It was a Tuesday morning, very early, when he called. The previous evening I had taken out his photo for the first time for many months,and cried a little. I also decided that Monday night to write him a letter of final closure, including all my mixed feelings towards him, and I wrote in the letter 'because I will never speak to you again.' I had absolutely no intention of posting the letter to him;I just wanted to set out all my feelings and hopefully lay his ghost for ever, and get on with the rest of my life. It was only EIGHT HOURS LATER that I got the phone call from him, after a year's silence! That freaked me out a bit.
Thank you SO MUCH again!
Sincerely,
Lara.
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Dear Lara,
I think that this new sense of detachment is your best protection from the ex. My congratulations that it has started. You certainly worked on it. (I do not believe that detachment appears by itself, without your profound work)
By the way, you can reinforce it. There is a simple technique that I found very helpful. As soon as any thought (not specific memory) about him came to my mind I chose one of three options depending on what the thought was. Either I said "It is not my problem" - if it was about his problems, or "This does not concern me" - if it was what he is doing/thinking/etc, or, and this is hilarious, tried to imagine a small blue elephant :lol: . I stopped doing this because I do not need it any more. I am longing sometimes for what was going between us. When I catch myself on memories then I come back to here-and-now, by counting chaires, for example. Another thing: there was not much to long for - I know this, but :(
You will help yourself remaining detached and strong. As for the ex: it is really difficult to prevent un-desirable meetings. Although filtering email and phone calls certainly helps :)
One practial thing: to pack all memories and put them in the attick/basement/garage/throw away. It was suggested by my friend - I did this - it helped a lot!
Love,
Pearl
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tried to imagine a small blue elephant
:lol: Too funny, Pearl. I love it. Along those lines, I read of someone's therapist recommending she say to herself over and over: "I reject this man. He is not someone I want in my life." It's supposed to rewire some cognitive process in the brain, though I don't pretend to know much about that stuff.
Anyway, Lara, it sounds as if you've had a break through - wahoo! So wonderful to reach the realm of detachment - good for you. As for thinking of and writing to him the night before he called, I don't view this as a coincidence. I think in the truest sense we're all connected and thoughts certainly can help manifest circumstances in our lives.
I hope you have a way of screening your calls in case he decides to phone again. Had I known my ex-Ns new phone number, I never would have picked up.
Best,
bludie
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Lara:
Detachment is indeed progress. Patz
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Hi,and thanks for your encouragement.
Dear Pearl,I felt gratified when you wrote that I could not have reached the place I am at now without doing the 'profound work.' Thank you for that comment.I have been so frustrated with myself,for such a long time,for my inability to get my ex out of my head,and so many times I've thought that while I was suffering,he was probably not giving me a single thought.It's good to think that the hours upon hours I've been suffering,journalling.etc,have been productive in the long run.
I also love the techniques you passed on,especially the little blue elephant!Have you ever read Eckhart Tolle's books on 'The Power of Now'? They also contain useful techniques for drawing our attention back to the present, at times when we are either reliving the past, or obsessing about ways to use the future to either 'fix' the past,or to get even.
I feel for you when you talk about the longings you still sometimes have for your ex;I know those feelings well,and I hope their power to move us will lessen as time goes on.Please give yourself a hug from me, next time they hit you.
About packing away the relationship reminders in the basement or wherever...I have to tell you that in my new frame of mind last weekend,I got out all the letters my ex used to send me,full of declarations of undying love,' I'll always be here for you,' etc. I tore them into little pieces,took them to the park,and put them in the dog-waste bin! I still have other stuff from him,but it's a start.
To Bludie And Blue Topaz,this thing about coincidence versus connectedness is an interesting one isn't it? I have read in the past,I think in stuff by Steven Carter,that people with commitment issues almost always get back in touch,when they can somehow sense that their ex has finally started to 'let go.' (Because even if they couldn't commit to the person,they are relying on the fact that they will always have a place in their lives,however peripheral.)I 've never seen an explanation of how that mechanism would work though. And if there are 'connections' between us across the universe,wouldn't our exes have got in touch with us at other times,eg when we were suffering intensely?
And I won't bore you with the details,but on two different occasions,last autumn,when I had dreamed up a new plan for coming to terms with life without my ex,I had loving text messages from him the very next day. Mmmmm........
Thank you also Patz for your encouraging words.
Thinking of you all,and hoping it's going okay for you this weekend.
Sincerely,
Lara.
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I believe a bad penny will turn up again (Steven Carter's 'curtain call') to check whether his/her 'supply' is still available. It may be a coincidence that it happens when a person is feeling better. It may be that a lot of time has passed so naturally one is feeling better. Then the creep's call out of the blue 'appears' to be almost psychic. Actually it's just him checking after a period of time to make sure the bait is still hooked. With that said, I believe we can 'send' feeling-messages to other people.
I'm still glad you hung up on him.
bunny
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> Please give yourself a hug from me
With a great delight, dear Lara :wink:
A nice weekend to everybody,
Pearl
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This morning my ex emailed me some photos of his new baby.They were on an attachment so I deleted them without looking.(And I know that now I'll have to block him from my email...this is the first time he's emailed me for probably about eighteen months.) The email itself said that he hoped I would meet the baby one day!
Can somebody tell me...why hasn't he 'read' my silence in response to his text messages etc over the last year? Why hasn't he reacted to me putting the phone down on him two weeks ago when he called to tell me about the baby? Hasn't the fact that I said our friendship was over a year ago,(a fact which he said he accepted at the time,) and the fact that I've maintained no contact for all that time,registered with him at all? Why doesn't he 'hear' me?
With warm wishes,
Lara.
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Lara,
Why? Because he is more concerned about how he feels (look at me - I'm a Dad) than the impact it would have on you. An arse he is. Please block that e-mail and continue to ignore him. I suspect he'll attempt to get as much mileage (attention) from this new development as is humanly possible. Let him seek it elsewhere.
Don't get me wrong. I think new life is one of the most incredible events in the universe. However, what he is subjecting you to is cruel and unusual (not about the baby; it's about his ego). Protect yourself and stay strong. I am sorry if this is causing you pain.
Best,
bludie
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Had a similar problem once, Lara.
Here's the short version/solution:
After a ten-week dating experiecne, the "date" pursued me for another 1.5 years via mostly e-mail and a few phone calls. I responded at first, sympathetically but firmly stating that I could not continue any kind of relationship with him, then giving up and going silent after a couple of months of that. But he kept on contacting me every few months, anyway.
What ultimately worked was this:
I responded to an (his last) e-mail in police-language (direct and simple, no explanations or whys or wherfores):
Please stop all communication with me immediately.
Of course, the date was lawyer, so he understood the implications (stalking) and quit immediately. Your ex may not get it, so you could add:
Otherwise, I will be forced to lodge a copmplaint with the local police department, citing harrassment and unwanted communication.
That should put a stop to it, if he has even a little bit of self-preservation skills. If it does not, then really do file a complaint and ask for a restraining order. Even if you don't get the order, your complaint is on record and will be useful if you need to file again, as a pattern will be established. If he contact you after you make a complaint, inform him:
A complaint about your unwanted communication is on file with the (local) police department. I repeat: please cease all further contact immediately.
Although he may not be physically violent/threatening, most jurisdictions take this kind of unwanted pursuit at least a little bit seriously.
It may sound harsh, but it's better than having to deal with this crapola every so often.
I wish you luck and hope this helps.
T
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Lara,
Why doesn't he get it? Because it's all about him. You're just a shadowy figure to whom he can brag about his baby. Please block him from sending email. Otherwise he'll be sending a photo of his grandchild when it's born!
bunny
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Thank you again, Bludie,T and Bunny for your understanding. I have been asking myself,which course of action ie.to continue to ignore him,or to tell him never to contact me again,would make me feel more powerful?
I've been thinking things through and I've realised that when I broke off our friendship,and then when I did not respond to his text messages etc, I did at least feel that I had done something to take back my power from him.(Compared with during the relationship when I was TOTALLY under his control.)
As he doesn't seem to have registered any of my non-contact decisions,(and thanks for pointing out again why this is) I now feel powerless again.
I feel that nothing I have struggled to do has made any impression on him,and meanwhile he is having a lovey-dovey time with the girlfriend and new baby.(I hesitate to post that last part as I feel very childish for thinking about it,but I'm trying to be honest with myself and you.)
Once again,thank you for keeping me on the right path!
Sincerely,
Lara.
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Laura:
Ignore, Ignore, Ignore, Ignore, Ignore.............all communication with this N. It is indeed all about him. Go on with your life. I like the comment "cease all communication at once". Continue to ignore. This communication only serves HIS best interests and not yours. Many hugs Patz