Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: miaxo guest on January 12, 2005, 03:20:14 PM
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I was thinking about sending EX husband an email with a link regarding N personaility disorder. Believe me, he is a full-fledged N.
Would this be worthwhile for me to do? Is he capable of recognizing his shortcomings? Am I just feeding into his N supply?
What do you think?
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He would hit the 'reply' button with supercillious remarks and try to turn it around so you would be the person with 'psychological' problems.
I wouldn't bother - a true N could squirm out of anything and blame anyone else, leaving them wishing they hadn't bothered...
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TOTALLY inadvisable. Opens you up to all sorts of abusive attacks. Not worth it. Believe me!
Best. Bludie
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If you give him any psychological information, he will turn it against you by using the jargon, calling you a narcissist, etc. It will backfire bigtime. Use the information for your own protection and don't share it with him.
bunny
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thank you.
After reading all the responses I know you are all absolutely correct.
He would just turn it around.
I guess I should just give up hope that he will ever come to terms with his abusive nature. All that I can do is pray that he will get help on his own some day........
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To answer your question:
N's don't care if they are Ns. It's all about them - not how you see them, how they see themself.
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To answer your question:
N's don't care if they are Ns. It's all about them - not how you see them, how they see themself.
But I thought that they do care what others think of them and that's why they are so worried about appearances. I would think that they didn't want their secret revealed.
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But I thought that they do care what others think of them and that's why they are so worried about appearances. I would think that they didn't want their secret revealed.
You are right...but....
The image they have of themselves is NOT the image the rest of us see. They THINK the world see them as they see themself. They live in a fantasy world. If they really cared what others thought of them, that would take too much time out of thinking about what they think about themselves. Am I going in enough circles?
Ellie
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I sat at my computer and watched my ex fill out an online personality quiz. He answered every single question as a bare faced lie. The scary thing was he honest to God thought he was answering it fairly and openly. He then read the description of Narcissm and did not see one trait he recognised. If it wasn't for the fact that every one who has ever met him has found him to be the same I would think I was mad!
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:|
Just getting used to this concept.....as a real thing that I have dealt with for so many years........have been trying to figure out the best possible response to my ex.....who just wrote to me after leaving 12 years ago....and after much deliberate destruction........suddenly I get a letter which to my eyes reads practically like a love letter!!! It is so shocking...but then I remembered the therapist I saw while going through the divorce mentioned Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcisissm.....once we parted.........I kind of forgot those terms.....but they came back to me and found this board while looking for info online. I had never really been able to articulate the hell I had gone through....couldn't even articulate it to myself.....the therapist must have known some of it.....mostly I was just scared and hurting.........but online in the last few days since I got the letter...I have found so much info about this........it seems like a miracle that someone somewhere really knows what I experienced.........and can explain it in terms that make sense........for so long none of it made sense to me.....why would he do the things he did....? They seemed so....diabolical.......I didn't get it.
Now I get it. But........there is still my own nature and damaged self to contend with. Have been trying to figure out the perfect response to his letter..........one that can't be used to hurt me or my kids...........and have had to conclude that there is none. But I worry that not answering him at all...............will also be used to fuel some plot. I thought I was done with having to deal with him. Now he pops up...........wanting some kind of "reunion" and plug back in to a supply. You don't even want to know the stuff he did to me! Still.............after all that...........there is (and he's counting on that) this little part of me that says........he's hurting.....this is all so sad.........after all....this kids.......(all in their 30's)
the grandkids............BUT the healthier part blinks that big neon sign:Danger!!!Danger!!! Then I let out a big sigh. Still....if there was a way to get help to him or for him.........in some intervention....or 3rd party way.............well, I guess he would just erupt all over somebody.....SO, somebody tell me.......do I just ignore this letter....and consider his beseaching me to let my feelings overcome his mistakes?(his words...not mine)I see this as his asking me to carry the burden for all the stuff he did.......to do the emotional work that he won't own....BUT how does one forgive such a person..........doesn't the recipient need to be aware of the forgiveness? This is all so confusing. Still, I am terrified of this man. Thanks for any input. kap
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kap,
This is your former husband, with whom you share children and grandchildren? Has he been in contact with you at all over 12 years, or is this the first anyone has heard from him?
bunny
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I have to confess that I have fantasized about sending my Nmom an anonymous note that says, simply, "You have Narcissistic Personality Disorder." I also used my real (extremely unique) name as my user name on here with some wierd fantasy that if she ever logged onto this message board, she'd see it and UNDERSTAND what she put me through, and continues to put me through. I know these are ridiculous fantasies - perhaps I should discuss them in therapy :-) I know that if she ACTUALLY saw any of this her reaction would simply be to stop speaking to me, for who knows how long (maybe my whole life).
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Kap,
My input - do not respond.
Your instincts are already telling you to beware. Responding to him (even carefully) would cause far more trouble for you I suspect than not answering at all.
You can forgive him (if you want). He doesn't need to be aware of this, forgiveness is for your benefit, it helps you to heal.
(Perhaps you could start your own thread here and get some more input?)
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Sorry everyone........someone came to the door....and I ended up away for long time.........Bunny and all........your advice is likely the best thing to do.......nothing........
I wrote my lengthy story to all of you.......but didn't realize I had timed out..so it wouldn't post......now that I'm back....it seems to hard to write it all over again. I am still pondering the right thing to do.....what worries me is that I haven't discussed the more clinical aspects of N....and that my kids do not know what they are dealing with....and he is clearly trying to get back into their lives in his controlling way.......and is frustrated because they are mature...and don't need his power and money anymore and so he can't figure out how to control them........until he thought of me....NOW he ( after 12 years) is "seriously thinking about the extraordinary years we spent together....28 of them........and he is wanting to be with me for the good times....(Christmas) and is not willing to let 28 years of his life be "erased". This shocks me because it was he who erased them. He wants me to use any feelings I still have for him to overlook his obvious mistakes. This makes me laugh....because it is SOOOOO detached. No empathy. If I told you here all the things he did to me and my family.......it would easily make a made for tv movie. This is a very powerful, wealthy and resourceful person....whose sense of entitlement is enabled by an entourage of "yes-people". I suspect that right now.....the bloom is off the rose of the marriage he is in...with the woman I caught him with........an attorney who helped him plan his diabolical split with me. So....that is why I am afraid of him.
He once said to me....Keep your mouth shut........I have connections...I know how to make things happen. I believe him.....I know. kap
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In my ex's letter..........he says he just spent the holidays with the most wonderful children and grandchildren any man could wish for. BUT that he feels a void in his life..........and what is missing is ME!!! HA HA>....after the stuff he did......I find this so amazing...(My understanding is that he spends very little time with family.) I am very close to my children and grandchildren. Perhaps he is jealous. He wants to meet me for coffee. The idea makes me shudder. I do not wish to speak with him. What he doesn't understand or "get" is that no person who cheats, lies and deliberately deceives a court.......re: assets, etc. puts house in foreclosure....and runs away with a mistress.......and buys a new yacht and mansion while leaving me in the dust........has not earned the privilege of making small talk with me nor is he entitled to ask me to be a bit player in his happy times holiday dog and pony shows. Feeling this anger helps me refrain from any contact. But why do I still have this little part of me that still wants to do something........anything.......that could have a positive impact on his "getting it. "....why? kap
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That Ha Ha was not nice. :roll: It kind of embarrasses me that I put it in there.........I think it symbolizes a feeling of ........."Well, maybe he finally feels something.......even pain......anything close to that despair he caused me to feel." It seems that if he could actually feel that pain....even a little tip of its iceberg.........that he could have a breakthrough........and understand the whole dynamic of what he has done. Wishful thinking, huh? But that Ha Ha.......is anger....and my own sort of vengeful feeling. I don't believe I truly want revenge....but justice and good health..........for my entire family......even him. But there I go wishing again. In the meantime........I do know with my head that it is poison for me to have any contact with him. But if I don't respond to his letter at all...........the kids will have to deal with his rage. Oh.......it won't look like rage....not on his face.......he will be very controlled......maybe even polite..........but there could be a destructive consequence that would be blamed somehow on me. This all seems so "Biblically , Epically Evil" Does that make sense? kap
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Kap, you sound like you are sure that your ex has some power over you.
The only power he has...is the power to frighten you.
Take that away and he has no power.
Does this make sense?
Only you can take that power away by not giving him any response, or by giving him a short, sweet, accurate response (possibly???).
eg. "I received your letter. It's too late. I'm not interested in meeting with you or in any type of contact with you. I wish you well in your life. I won't be answering any more letters."
Tell your kids this is your decision. They are adults now and can deal with him as they choose. Let them know that you will understand if they are not interested in contact with him either. Unless they were deaf and blind, they saw what he is and will also have memories and possibly fears. Encourage them to speak and share.
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Kap: The only thing wrong with this man.........is his misson in life is to manipulate, manipulate, manipulate. If you are able to take care of yourself economically, make important decisions for yourself.....and I will use a little humor here..........have a good car mechanic, and a good person to maintain your house........then you really don't need him, his money...........he only needs you because as he gets older he is going to have to have someone to take care of him. As you have pointed out, your children are now mature and have made their decisions. Sadly, the things he did to you and your children are real, they are not made up incidents. I remember well after my mother passed away, and my own N father 10 months later married his mistress my mother despised. He literally tormented my mother with this other woman. He had the nerve to write to me that we should let "by gones be by gones" i.e. your mother never existed. He also had money, perceived connections, etc. I told him if he contacted me again I would call the police. It is the only way.
Narc's can dish it out, but in the end when you dish it back cold, they vaporize. Patz
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But why do I still have this little part of me that still wants to do something........anything.......that could have a positive impact on his "getting it. "....why?
You are a caring, feeling person. He knows this and he knows (after so many years with you) which buttons he needs to push to get a favourable response from you. That's all. He hasn't come to any 'realisations' about himself.
You owe him absolutely nothing.
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Kap: I will say it again.............he is older now, the looks, the charm, the hoodwinking of others is fading fast...............he now only has you to look to in his old age to take care of him. Are you really willing to spend the rest of your "good years" looking at a man who is a liar, a cheat, an abuser. My father told my mother these same "sweet nothings" after he ran off with another woman in his early 20s. Well, one can say surely after he got back with my mother after a major con job, the he changed ......fat chance. He only saw that she was doing well, and he wanted what she had. It was a living nightmare after they got remarried. He finally did destory her..........she died of a broken heart. This same man felt no problem dropping me off at my grandparents when I was 4 and my brother of 3 months like a bunch of little cats. We did not see him for about 4 years after that. Once a narc always a narc. Destroy the letter, do not communicate with him, don't use the "good time memories" to get back in your good graces. What happened to you, happened......he cannot take memories back. He is looking for someone to take care of him because everyone now knows what he is..........no one is playing with him any more. Make your own life with your grown children, enjoy your grandchilden..........this is the greatest thing you can do for yourself......
and ultimately the best revenge. Let him twist in the wind. Patz
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Kap,
The Guest's suggestion about a short, direct and firm letter is sound. This will cut him off at the quick and help to alleviate concerns about his response possibly impacting your children. From the situation you describe meeting him for coffee would be jumping back into a deep abyss of pain and confusion. It sounds as if you've worked your way up and out of that abyss. Don't undermine your progress. You owe him nothing.
Best,
bludie
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kap,
If you are seriously frightened of him, and feel you must respond to the letter or else the consequences will be dire, my suggestion is to write something very boring. It should be short, vague, and only thanking him for writing. Do not respond to ANY OF THE CONTENT in the letter.
I got this idea from an article called, "Identifying Losers in Relationships" which is very useful. http://www.drjoecarver.com/
bunny
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Kap: everyone here has good and experienced advice for you, but mostly, you already have it for yourself. Read back over your writing. Step out of your emotional response to him for a moment and see what you are already telling yourself. Follow your instincts. Bottom line, if you don't care, he can't hurt you. Sure, you can admit you're still scared of him, that your relationship still has a charge on it, but you don't need to let him in on it.
I must deal with my ex N on a regular basis, as we have minor children together. He uses absolutely everything I say or do and twists it to his advantage. I have learned to only respond to the content of his emails when it is absolutely necessary. I, too, wish I could respond with reason, with "don't you see what you are doing?", but those responses are for a reasonable person, who could actually grasp your response, or who truly cares. He can't.
When my ex spews his venom/attempts to manipulate in his emails, my response is very simple: "recieved your email. thanks". If it is a phone call and he starts that, I will hang up. He rarely bothers to call back. If I don't engage in his fights, he has only himself to blindly swing at. Once again, if I don't care, he can't hurt me.
(yeah, drives him nuts, but so what?)
Yup, leave him to twist in the wind. He is not your problem anymore. As far as your kids go: mine are teenagers and I still have to let them come to their own conclusions about their dad. Except for doing what I can to positively influence their life, he is their dad, and they will learn what they need from him (good or bad). Your kids are older, rejoice that you can let that go and focus on your own wonderful relationships with them.
You are fine. Don't engage. You don't need it (love the response about a good car mechanic, etc!!)
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Kap: I don't have the book with me, but in Pema Chodron's book: "When things Fall apart", she includes a fable: I will try not to butcher it here, but it helps me soooo much when dealing with my ex (who is like yours, just a bit younger):
The once was a young warrior. She was to go into battle with fear. She did not want to go into battle, but her teacher prepared her well. The day of the battle, the warrior prostrated herself in front of fear and said: "thank you for allowing me to engage in battle with you". Fear said :" I appreciate your respect for me. That was very brave". So the warrior asked: "Would you tell me: how can I defeat you?" Fear said: "Because you showed me respect, I will tell you. My weapons are that I yell really loud and get very close to your face and flail my arms about. You may get very frightened, and want to run, but if you just DO NOT DO WHAT I TELL YOU, YOU WILL DEFEAT ME."
Find out where your reaction is coming from. If it's fear:don't do what it tells you.
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Very informative post about the nature of the N. The futility of informing an N about how they have impacted you doesnt fully take hold until several attempts have been made. My father doesn't care how he impacted his children or ex-wife. The nature of a narcissist makes him incapable of such empathy.
To the last guest, I would suggest that if the relationship is over to simply remind him of it without attack. Keeping it short and to the point may get the message across. I have the same internal mechanism that causes me to be attracted to emotionally unavailable people. Resisting that urge by reminding self the consequences of getting involved with that type of person usually works for me.
Good luck with your response to the ex. Not responding is a negative response in itself. The nature of the animal that we deal with here makes it essential that we regain ourselves and our power. The only way I've begun to do that is not to get out on the dance floor with the N that has invited us to do so.
Good luck...