Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Chandra (aka Confused2) on January 16, 2005, 11:33:26 AM
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Hi again,
I just saw the movie Sideways and it brought up all kinds of feelings. In the movie, the "wronged" woman, upon finding out she's been deceived, beats the cr_p out of the guy and breaks his nose. It made me regret that I never exacted any kind of revenge against my ex-N!!!! Why should he walk away with zero consequences for his betrayal of me? He even boasts about the fact that he escaped this relationship with no mortal damage. I wish I would have at least kept the engagement ring. But, he wanted it back and I was actually afraid of him so I gave it back. But it REALLY irks me that he free as a bird, on his merry way, doing his thing, while I am still hurting. (I thought I'd turned a corner a few days ago but no, I'm still processing this).
Someone please remind me why revenge is a bad idea. That seems to be the general consensus out there in the world, but I need to see it in black and white.
Thanks
Chandra (aka, Confused2)
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Taking revenge is like a boomerang, it comes back to hurt you.
How? Maybe through your conscience. Hurting someone else on purpose is a destructive act. There's no good intention in it. And acts like this make us feel 'dirty' or 'damaged' so we suffer too. There's a place inside us that knows we've done 'wrong'. We know we're 'bad' somewhere.
I've thought about taking revenge a few times but have not done it. What has happened is that those people who generally behave without any thought or consideration for others somehow receive the same back. Seeing this happen helps me see things more clearly.
Revenge is a dish best not served at all!
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He even boasts about the fact that he escaped this relationship with no mortal damage
He's an idiot. This is to make him look big (because he feels inadequate and small). He's trying to make out he's a real 'contender' in the game of love, someone who upsets women to the point of physical violence. He should be so lucky that anyone would care enough about his pathetic little ass to even want to raise a finger against him. He's not worth it.... feeling better yet? :wink:
Seriously, taking revenge shows that you still care about the person in as much as he still affects your feelings. We ignore people we don't care about. As for him wanting to join the porn industry (your previous thread), please. That's not exactly healthy is it? take care
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You have exacted revenge by reading his email -- unless he would be kind of thrilled by that.
I haven't seen Sideways yet, but that's a movie. Drama must have conflict, otherwise no one would be interested. Mature adult life doesn't have level of drama in it.
If you were afraid of him, then you got off cheaply by a mere ring return.
bunny
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Revenge takes enormous amounts of time and energy that would be better spent elsewhere. Being consumed with wanting revenge will only age you beyond your years and it will suck the life out of you.
Believe me, I know where you coming from but it is not worth it. At one time or another we all think about revenge but it's in an individual's emotional best interests to move on and if you can....forgive the person...even though they haven't asked for forgiveness....it can make a world a difference for you.
Start looking ahead in life. Don't dwell on the past but learn from it. You learned a valuable life lesson and hopefully you will now know how to avoid such people in the future...or at least not to become involved with them.
Smile, don't scowl. :P
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Take heart. N's are thier own worst enemies. You thinking about him/her, you spending any amount of your own precious wonderful life contmeplating revenge is, in effect, you giving them power over you still.
If you don't care, you can't be hurt. Find healthy ways to focus on what you WANT in this life, and you will attract it. Keep focusing on what you don't want and guess what?
I have been where you are and it was the darkest, saddest part of my life. The more you get into this thinking, the more it will suck you in and damage you. The universe will give the N the lesson they need to grow. Whether they take it or not, is up to them. You are also offered a lesson here. Try to move on, grow, perhaps not cut your own nose off out of spite.
Hatred only damages the vessel it is carried in. Choose what you carry carefully.
Whether he has "won" and you have lost is a mind game you can look at any way you want. Say you have won by getting away or say he has won by getting the ring ....it's your choice. Don't even play the game.
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Hey Chandra,
Been there and wanted to do that but the self-imposed No Contact has pre-empted enacting any fantasies. Quotes on revenge:
Nietzsche:
"For that man be delivered from revenge, that is for me the bridge to the highest hopes and a rainbow after long storms."
Ghandi:
"An eye for an eye will only serve to make the whole world blind."
Einstein:
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
Chandra -- Have you heard of Sam Vaknin? He's a self-professed N and has may Web sites. Take it for what it is, however, in the extreme we run the risk of developing our own N-tendencies if trying to exact our pound of proverbial flesh:It is a danger to be avoided. And this is precisely what I call "Narcissistic Contagion" or "Narcissism by Proxy".
The affected entertain the (false) notion that they can compartmentalize their narcissistic behavior and direct it only at the narcissist. In other words, they trust in their ability to segregate their conduct and to be verbally abusive towards the narcissist while civil and compassionate with others, to act with malice where the narcissist is concerned and with Christian charity towards all others.
They cling to the "faucet theory". They believe that they can turn on and off their negative feelings, their abusive outbursts, their vindictiveness and vengefulness, their blind rage, their non-discriminating judgment. This, of course, is untrue. These behaviors spill over into daily transactions with innocent neighbors, colleagues, family members, co-workers, or customers.
One cannot be partly or temporarily vindictive and judgmental any more than one can be partly or temporarily pregnant. To their horror, these victims discover that they have been transmuted and transformed into their worst nightmare: into a narcissist.
They find out the hard way that narcissism is contagious and many victims tend to become narcissists themselves: malevolent, vicious, lacking empathy, egotistical, exploitative, violent and abusive.
VAKNIN ALSO HAS WRITES ABOUT about homosexuality and transsexuals on his Web site:
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq18.html Scroll two-thirds of the way down the screen.
http://www.angelfire.com/ego/narcissism/women.html
Just keeping walking through the fire and hang in there.
Best,
bludie
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Thank you for all of the replies. This discussion group is incredibly healing and supportive. WOW. I will reply in detail to people's specific posts later.
Bludie, I have read a huge amount on Sam Vaknin's site, but have entirely missed the part on transsexualism. I can't wait to read that! He is really describing my N to a tee. I read a book called My Husband Betty: Love, Sex, and Life with a Crossdresser. It is outstanding and describes a lot of what Vaknin's mentions, i.e., autogynephilia, etc..... But the book doesn't talk at all about NPD. I am thrilled that you have pointed me to this information.
Everything everyone says about why revenge is wrong, is of course, right on. I just needed the reminder. Will reply in more detail later, but, new posters, keep it comin'!!!!!!!
Blessings to all of you!
Chandra
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You would be so much better using your energy to get to 'a place' where your ex means nothing to you.
I know you are hurting, but he is so not worth it. You need to find the value in yourself and never settle for another abusive relationship.
I believe N's attract vulnerable people (often victims of childhood abuse, neglect, negativity and / or narcissistic parents).
I know what low self-esteem is having spent almost my entire life feeling that way.
Thank God I don't feel that way anymore - I like myself and that was my sole ambition in life.
PS: I'm not perfect, I do have a punchbag and a pair of boxing gloves in my cellar!!!
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Chandra: As a newbie to this board and reading the replies to revenge. I have also had these feelings toward my ex signifcant other early when things were still fresh. I have a different take on this aspect on revenge. If you do things toward the Narc, to exact and eye for an eye....the only problem with this is you will have the memories of doing this and having to live with it. It took all the self control I could exact not to seek revenge. Having been a survivor of a Narc for the past 10 years, I can honestly say, looking back now, I do not have the memories of revenge on which to dwell, but have the luxury of knowing that he has the memories of what he did.....he has the memories and not I with which to live. That is the poetic justice. Patz
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I really appreciate all the posts in answer to my question.
Bunny, you said, "You have exacted revenge by reading his email -- unless he would be kind of thrilled by that." If I somehow let on to him that I've been reading his email, that would do two things: it would cause him to finally change his frikken password and I would no longer have access and that would be a good thing. Also, it would cause him to lose sleep at night wondering just how much I have seen---and NO, he would NOT be thrilled that I know all that I know. It would mortify him. I only worry that I would start losing sleep at night wondering if he was going to have me killed or something...
A lot of people said that revenge means I am still connected to him, and, of course, I am. The thing that is hardest to will into existence is to be really done with him so that I don't waste any more energy on him whatsoever. This is what I want most and it seems that I can only wait for this to develop naturally. In the meantime, the truth is I still do think about his betrayal and I alternate between anger and hurt. I still can't quite completely wrap my mind around what happened.
A martial arts instructor once pointed out that if you do more than simply defend yourself, then you have become the aggressor. Since he is out of my life, I no longer need to defend myself from him and an act of revenge would make me the aggressor.
I like to believe all the points made that N's are their own worst enemies and they will get their "just desserts" from the Universe with no intervention from me. We like to think that is true but has anyone ever seen the Woody Allen film Crimes and Misdemeanors? It suggests that we live in an amoral universe.
I love Einstein's idea that problems cannot be solved at the same level of awarenss that created them.
It makes sense to me that an act of revenge would somehow tie me to my abuser long term.
I am still mulling over Vaknin's point that Narcissism is contagious if we are not careful. I am not sure I believe this but I will consider it.
I think my mother is quite possibly an N though I haven't fully explored this. I know she was emotionally incestuous with me and, as a result, I have a fear of being engulfed, as she engulfed me, and maybe this is why I have chosen men who are ultimately unavailable (the available ones, I have not been able to fall in love with).
I have done some reading on Stephen Carter's website and that has been helpful too. If I could summarize his advice in a nutshell it would be, "Just move on..."
Thanks again for everyone's great insights.
Chandra
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It suggests that we live in an amoral universe.
I think the evidence before our eyes is that the universe is neutral.
Morality is a human idea. Morality isn't a thing that exists outside of our heads. If it does, we have no proof as such.
How do we explain 'ethnic cleansing'? etc etc.
If you want to believe in a 'just world' fine, but it is a belief, founded in faith, not founded in real events.
In my real life the evidence suggests that there is no plan, things happen by chance and life is random and uncertain. There seems to be more evidence for that approach than for any other.
Re: not being able to fall in love with someone: what do you think love is? I don't think love is something that happens to us, it is something we decide to give another person. If you work it through that the idea of 'romantic love' is an unkind myth/fairy tale/not reality, you might become a lot happier! take care
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lots of reading matter on 'love' and sex:
http://www.guidetopsychology.com/sex_love.htm
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Hello Chandra. :)
Patz' post is floating around in my head. Lots of good stuff there.
I had, for the first time in my life, a revenge plot this summer. I had it all worked out, went on the web, googled *revenge plots* and read all the broo-ha-ha. I shared my idea with two others. Bottom line: after about two days of this revenge obssesive-thinking, I realized it was the fantasy of getting revenge that worked for me. And it was *healthy* to have this fantasy: it indicated that I felt wronged and was not so ready to take the blame and was prepared to do something about it. But I am glad I kept it as a fantasy. It helped me realize that one fantasy in my lifetime like this is enough and to beware of getting myself involved in such stressful situations in the future. Maybe I'll feel the need to exact revenge in the future but I look at it as a matter of the mind; best worked out and released in one's own mind as a fantasy (but I am good at fantasizing so this method obviously works for me). In the end, Gandhi's quote really holds up.
Btw, the person I wanted to get back at is now just *around* and doesn't have that power over me anymore. Move on. :)
xo,
Dawning.
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Dawning: I also had fancy's of getting even, obsessing on how great it would be, how he would be surprised, how I would feel, how he would feel etc. While I agree it is healthy to sometimes "spin your wheels" in your own mind......I ultimately realized that no matter what I thought or felt.........my significant other didn't KNOW about what I was thinking or feeling and what is more could care less. The only result from this exercise is that my blood pressure was up, I was depressed, and he ultimately won on that particular day when I felt that way. The same was with my father........it is a cold day indeed when you realize that your father is a Narc and the healthiest thing for you to do is to have no communication with him. It is indeed hard, but necessary, for to make progress and grow a a human being, is to seperate yourself from Narc's. There is no changing them whatsoever. The only responsible change can come from you. Patz
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I agree with that you said above, Patz.
For me, having the fantasy worked for two days as a sort of temporary balm on the grief (where before I would have taken all the blame for my ex's bad behaviour onto me no matter what it was). As I saw myself having these revenge thoughts, I let them come up. It was not easy. After a short amount of time, I saw them as being just a fantasy that I would never act upon and the feelings of revenge went away. Perhaps, I didn't make that clear in my earilier post.
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Dawning: No I realized you had no intention of acting out these fantasies. I found when I fantazied about getting even, it did release the tension and pent up anger I felt. I had no intention of acting upon it either. I can honestly say I felt that way off and on for about 2 years. It was just through "baby steps" each day that I was able to make progress. To some people it is incomprehensible why we "can't just get over it" and move on. They simply do not realize the devastation taking place when the Narc begins to devalue you as a human, not only within the ongoing relationship, but to others as well. Truly a death takes place and is only through the grieving process and allowing yourself that time and expression of grief and anger, that you can move forward.
I decided to post here as a survivor and person that has come out on the "otherside" of the narcisstic experience to help others to see there is "life after death" of that beautiful, shimmering image of a Narc. What you thought was real was not real at all. You were just a supply of adoration for the Narc and that alone. When you begin to prick pin holes in to that huge blob of hot air, and he gets a glimpse of reality........then the anger and the overflow of the ego collasping of the narc begins to set in.....that
is when the devaluing process of you as a human begins. Don't believe any of it. It is just the narc trying to reinflate all the hot air so the image stays intact. Only people who have experienced the devaluation process can understand it. Patz
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I am posting a part from the Betty Broderick case thread, because it matches this thread:
I like revenge. But a different kind of revenge. Successful revenage. Like that Betty would have studied law by herself, got successful much more successful than her husband. Made a group for women like her. Get a lot of support of her community. Maybe the young new wife of her ex would have cheated on him later. Maybe Betty would have found another nice man. That is a kind of revenage I like. I do not like to kill people. Even when I strongly believe that for many N's there is no place on this planet, just to blow them away is too soft for all the awful behaviour they did to other people. Let them suffer and not only 5 minutes die. That just sounds to simply.
Or for example I like the idea, when I later make a lot of money as a lawyer to buy the house next to my parents and give it to a group for single women with kids who left alone. They can all live for free in that house until the kid is two or three years old. By them they should have found a flat by themselves. Boy that would make a noise, where my father just loves to have his peace. It would drive him nuts. But well, the community would be happy, because they would not have to pay rental money for these ladies and the ladies would be happy that they found a place to live. Can you imagine living next to a house all with babies whom are screaming the whole day and night? Happy retirement. That is what I call a revenge. Doing something good and giving the N a bad time. That is something Betty should have done. I read in one book that she received 18.000 Dollar support money per month. From that money she easily could have gone to law school or to college. Okay, it would have taken some time, I do not know if she had finished college. But she could focus meanwhile on other things and her kid could have been proud of her.
The thing is we have laws which do not allow to kill or even injure other people. Only if there is a justification. But that has to be proved. And there is no criminal law for abusers and N's. Which I think is bad. In Germany we do not even have a criminal law for stalking. They know what it is, but that lame goverment did nothing to get a law for that. To often untit someone is getting hurt nothing is done. I think there should been laws against abuse. More detailed and especially for children. There should be more done for children anyhow. The goverments can spent money for every shit, but I think they should spent more for children. I like the attitude of goverments like France, Belgian and the Skandinavian countries. They do so much for children. Moreover, I think it is stupid to be in prison and especially for such a long time. I do not can really say, it was wrong what Betty did and I think that she was in such a state that she did not really know what she did. She definitive needed pyschological help at that point of her life.
Speaking generell, I would not mark revenge always as bad. Doing something which does not make you a criminal maybe makes one free. So there is no cause for negative bonding anymore to that person. Doing somekind of intelligence revenge (the other person did never knew that it came originally from me) often helped me to get free from bad person. Intelligent revenge is not always that easy. We need some ideas by that. Sometimes in life we get opportunities. Samantha
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Sam: The best revenge is living well despite what the narc tells you. My ex narc takes great delight in telling others how he destroyed me. It really makes him feel important. The only thing is I know he is full of it and I can make it in spite of him. Continuing in spite of their self absorption is the only revenge. It is true we look at them getting off scott free and the injustice of it all. It is a jagged little pill to swallow. However it is in our mind's eye they have gotten off. We don't know how well they are sleeping at night and what shoulder they are looking over. If they have narced us, I can assure you others have suffered as well. They have to remember all the lies they have told and to whom. Reality is their worst enemy. Patz
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Samantha,
I like your idea of "intelligent revenge" and "doing something good that gives the N a bad time."
A really excellent revenge novel that does JUST this is called The Life and Loves of a She-Devil by Fay Weldon. There is also a movie based on this novel called Shedevil. I have not seen it, so am not sure if it is as good. But the book is intelligent revenge at its best.....
Chandra
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Chandra: I also enjoyed the movie adaptaion with I think Rosanne Bar playing the She-Devil. Really enjoyed it. However the British adaptation had the She-Devil really mean and how she enjoyed getting even. I lived vicariously through that movie! Patz
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I loved that movie too. It was wonderful! Great movie.
Patz, for some it may be right that N's are there worst enemies. But I doubt for all. The N istself sees him being great and wonderful. I like to teach them a lesson. But not obsessing about it. If there is the opportunity, then I would do. Samantha
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hello again Chandra, wondering if anything at that link made any sense to you?
http://www.guidetopsychology.com/sex_love.htm
re - the romantic myth etc. Interested in your thoughts
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One of the most annoying things about narcissism is that it's contagious-- they treat us like objects, with no boundaries and purely as entities for their enjoyment, and we learn to act that way, too. Exacting revenge on someone just is a way of feeling better by hurting them-- it doesn't really do anything but serve us through something that happens to them. And the same is true of boundary-violating stuff like reading their e-mail-- it's a way to find out something that we want to know, because we want to, without regard for them.
I have this problem myself, and it's tough-- how to react to a family full of N's without become N in my treatment of them? And how to learn to move around in the world and have relationships that don't have this quality to them-- that reflect different (higher) values (that no one really reflected to me growing up). How not to take out all of my hurt and anger out on other people (including the people who caused it) by giving myself license to hurt them back-- that seems like a good first step.
It's tough, but I think that this is the answer to the question "why is revenge wrong."
I did laugh at that scene in the movie, though! Very hilarious.
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I just read through this thread and identify so much with the sense of betrayal and injustice that everyone has expressed. At last I have begun to see my ex for what he really is,and it's so frustrating that although I no longer miss him, or what I thought he was, he is still in my head.
I would have done anything for him,I gave him thousands of pounds (without which he would have been living on the street.)
Now he has moved on,has a new baby,is probably having the time of his life, because I set up his comfortable life for him when we were together!
I don't want to feel like this,so how do I let go? I know I have made a lot of progress, but I still feel that he can forget about me entirely probably for weeks on end, and then casually get in touch on a whim and mess up my head.Even if I continue to ignore his contacts, I hate knowing that he can just casually text,pick up the phone and call me, and he won't much care if I reply or not.He's not invested in it either way. I won't do this,but I want to tell him that I've seen through him,that I wouldn't believe anything he said to me anymore, and that I want my money back with interest! I wish I'd never met him, and I wish he realised what he's lost! I wish I was missed!
Thanks for letting me vent;I just don't know what to do with these feelings!
Lara.
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Lara,
I can totally relate to all you said and certainly to the desire for revenge. I kept thinking that if I just showed him how much he devastated me and how sad I was that he would at least feel guilty. HE CAN'T. HE WON'T. It is wasted energy, better put toward making yourself healthy.
I do believe there is justice, whether it is in this life or the next, it will be handed down. I would dearly love to have it be in this life so I can enjoy it, but if not I can't worry about it. I can only control what I can control and that would not include him and what he chooses to do with his life. My greatest revenge over him is my eventual healing and moving on successfully with my life. I must not do something that would take away the pride I have in myself and the pride my children have of me. I can always look in the mirror and know that I have done the right thing. He can't, but of course he doesn't know that and probably never will.
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I just read through this thread and identify so much with the sense of betrayal and injustice that everyone has expressed.
Hi Lara,
Betrayal and injustice sums it up nicely.
it's so frustrating that although I no longer miss him, or what I thought he was, he is still in my head.
My ex is still in my head too and we weren't even together all that long. I'm the one who was reading my ex's email (I had his password) and I saw what he was saying about our relationship to others. WOW. What a distortion! I am beginning to think that he's not necessarily lying but that he himself has no clue about what really happened. It's sort of disconcerting to think that someone's thought processes are so messed up.
I wish I'd never met him, and I wish he realised what he's lost! I wish I was missed!
I have similar feelings but I have just reached a point where I am planning to fully let go. A friend advised me to visualize a time when I am no longer thinking about him at all. What a great suggestion. As of today, I'm DONE reading his emails and tracking his disordered life. I feel a lightness that I haven't felt in months. I am planning to delete the hundreds of emails and many photos on my computer that have to do with him. This is a good feeling.
I wish you well in trying to let go.
Chandra
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Good for you Chandra! Now you're moving ahead! Giving up reading his email is quite a step forward for you and that's great. That light feeling sounds like a weight lifted? This will surely help you to focus on you now.
Best wishes to you.
Lara, you're doing the right thing with the feelings. You're expressing them. This might sound silly but have you tried putting a pillow in a chair and pretending it's him and really letting him have it? Or writing a letter, that you probably won't send, but just to help get some more of your feelings out?
I read it's also good to get a piece of paper and just write, write, write for 15 minutes without stopping. That's all....15 minutes. I have a whole file now but by looking back I can see how I have released so much and there is actually......progress. :roll:
The reality is ...he is still the same person. He used you as a sponge and he will probably continue to behave the same way in this new relationship. He has hurt you without care and will probably do the same again to this next person (and child). :(
Maybe what is hard to let go of is the idea of the life you wanted with him, not so much what you had? If you think of it that way.....was it really great--what you actually had with him? You can get what you want with the right person, Lara! You're free!!
Now he can call or email or text message or whatnot, when he feels like bugging you, irritating you, or reminding you? What do you think? Is there a way to not.....let him bug, irritate or remind you? Is it possible to ignor him? And get revenge by not letting him achieve his goals with you?
(((((((((Lara))))))))
GFN
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Hello everyone.
Brigid, thanks for reminding me that our exes 'can't and 'won't' understand how much they have hurt us,or feel guilty about it. You are quite right, when I think about it rationally I know that my ex, if challenged, would only come out with a string of justifications for his behaviour, or even,as he said once to me,'I'm selfish, that's just the way I am and I can't change.'
And Chandra, how are you feeling now? I liked your friend's suggestion about visualisation;I am going to try that. Sometimes I don't even know why he's in my head so much;it almost feels as if my brain clicks back to him automatically anytime I am not fully occupied.Have I been brainwashed?
GFN, thanks for your practical suggestions about writing all the feelings out.I am happy that you have been able to see real progress in your own recovery by doing that.
Your point that my ex is still the same person is interesting, because altho I have at last stopped idealising him as a person,I am finding myself assuming that he is treating his current girlfriend much better than he treated me.I guess I should see very clearly from the posters on this board that Ns do NOT treat their spouses and children well, but still in my head I have a very rosy picture of him with his new baby and the baby's 'beautiful Mum' as he wrote in the recent email.
You made another good point about not letting his attempts to contact me bug me and remind me,etc. What I find frustrating (more venting on the way here!) is that I feel he has added me,without my permission, to a list of his ex-girlfriends with whom he keeps in touch as 'friends.' In some ways,(but definitely not in others,) I almost wish he would keep trying to contact me so that I can ignore him and so have a way of getting my message across!
Thanks for all your understanding;before I started posting here I thought I was going crazy feeling like this.
Wishing you all happier times,
Sincerely,
Lara.
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Lara,
Now that the baby is screaming, keeping him up all night, pooping, and requiring actual work and effort, his life is probably not that great. I bet he is actually feeling some stress. The 'beautiful mum' thing is crap. I'm sure she is treated quite shabbily by him despite this lip service.
The worst thing you can do to a narcissist is forget about them and not think about them. If you don't think about him and feel indifferent/bored by him, he will "sense" that he's losing energy and getting depleted. Unfortunately it also might lead him to contact you (they do that). But if you're bored by the thought of him, it actually depletes him. Pretend he's boring if necessary. You will start feeling bored and that is a good thing.
bunny
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Thank you Bunny for your thoughts;I love your replies because you are always so sensible and to the point.
I haven't replied sooner because I've been thinking over your suggestion that I could try pretending that my ex is boring. I was thinking that that would be a very difficult thing to do.That was because I used to feel so intensely alive and excited for much of the time when I was with him.It was a real adrenalin rush,and he made me believe that I was fascinating,beautiful and wonderful company.However I can see now that it was really a sick,unhealthy kind of excitement,not to mention the fact that during my time with him I was constantly lurching between that hysterical excitement,and the other extreme....a feeling of intense hopelessness,of being in a cage because of the incredible hold he had over me. (Funnily enough he sometimes used to tell me that I had brainwashed him...is that what is meant by projection?)
Anyway,my memory seems to have recently flicked the 'off' switch, in that I no longer miss his company like I used to, and so perhaps in my own gradual way,I will reach a point where (amazingly) I will be able to see him as boring. If I recall our 'happy' times together,but without taking much pleasure in the memories,I hope that I will think about them less and less,because there will be nothing in it for me.
Hope this makes some sort of sense!
Thanks again Bunny,
Sincerely,
Lara.
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Hi Lara,
I'm sure he was pretty exciting at the time, but possibly there were annoying and obnoxious aspects to him. The way you've presented him, he sounds seriously annoying. :)
His comment about brainwashing sounds like some bs but I don't know the context.
I think you're on the way to being indifferent toward him and that's good!
bunny
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Lara,
Indifference is what I strive for as well. Not as easy to do with children to share forever more, but certainly a goal. I know it is what will bother him the most, but in his mind he will probably never believe that I'm there anyway. I'm sure it will be some time yet before I actually am, but I'm learning to put on my best indifference face possible.
It is hard to separate the imagined happiness and the reality of unhappiness that existed in my relationship, but I constantly have to remind myself of that. When I see a couple walking down the beach hand-in-hand, I miss being part of a couple. But then I have to remember that he probably wouldn't have been walking with me hand-in-hand anyway and would have found some way to keep his distance.
I'm finding slowly with time that the life I thought I was living was really the life I wanted to live and not what I had. I guess the mind has a way of protecting us from seeing the painful reality until the truth slaps us upside the head.
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Hi Everyone,
Bunny you are right of course;apart from the charm and the intense excitement, there were many annoying and obnoxious aspects to him:
obsessive meanness;hypochondria; mood swings; impatience;use of emotional blackmail;tendency to 'preach' at me; making other people feel that they were responsible for his mood;so melo-dramatic, in both what he said and wrote,that sometimes I wanted to laugh at him;often feeling that people were picking on him;tendency to switch on and then switch off his charm, in quick succession;willingness to embarrass other people;involvement in petty crime.
Brigid,what an intelligent and sensitive person you sound. I feel for you, because I know that I am so lucky in not having to have regular contact with my ex. I think that what you said was very true;we realise the truth of what we have really been involved in, only very slowly. Our minds are presenting the truth to us gradually, at a pace that we can cope with. Perhaps that is why, with your example of the couple walking hand-in-hand, you do initially forget the truth and then remind yourself of it. I don't know;maybe this is gentler for us than having the truth as a constant and immediate hammer pounding at us.
I so hope for you that one day you will reach the state of indifference you wish for. I know that I am not there yet;the mixed emotions I had as I typed the list of my ex's less endearing qualities a few minutes ago told me that! Let's be optimistic though that we will reach that point.
Sincerely,
Lara.
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Hi,
I wonder if it is really revenge you are talking about or accountability. Your feelings reminded me of how I feel about my mother who was never, in my opinion, accountable for her bad behavior toward me or my dad. It took me years to get to the point where I realized that except for any guilt feelings she felt, she essentially got away with all that bad behavior. This really urked me until finally I just told her that there was nothing she could ever do that would make up for what she had done to my life. I must say that, even though, this statement has caused an estrangement between us, I feel as if I finally coughed up something that had been choking me for decades. Once I said those words, I was able to face my true feelings for her. It has been more liberating than therapy.
In the case of your ex, if you are afraid of him, I wouldn't suggest doing this. The potential bad consequences far outway the satisfaction you would feel. But you could write your feelings down and not send them. And, have faith that he will reap what he has sown. I have seen it more than once.
Someone once said, the best revenge is happiness. Go for it.
Take Care, Jo
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I looked up another discussion board for NPD. Gee, there sure are a lot of them! I know many of you said very similar things in this thread. Here is an entry from another board that really touched me and made sense to me. I don't know who wrote it:
"When I am feeling particularly stable, I am able to think more clearly. I look at N and the way his life is. I realize then that he is his own revenge. He has destroyed everything in his path. I am just a small part of it. He has destroyed his name and worse, he has destroyed his children. Although he runs away...he does know. He knows what he is. He will run until he leaves this world. He will never know anything real. He will never rest, never feel completion. He is an abyss.
We are in pain. But we feel. The N can only imagine feelings. We can hurt. We can heal. We can love. The N is always on the outside. He is a master at avoiding pain and consequenses. The price is to never feel love or true satisfaction. He will never know what it is like to have his heart ache with joy. He will never witness small miracles. To avoid responsibility and to avoid emotion has its price.
He is his own revenge."
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where I realized that except for any guilt feelings she felt, she essentially got away with all that bad behavior.
That it is! They used to get away with it. I was the first one who questioned my Nmom behaviour. I draw consequences. Well, she still did not get it. I continue to draw consequences and it worked at least a little. She will not change, but it holds her a little on stage.
I think the worst we can do if we do not draw immediately consequences. The same with kids.
samantha