Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: phillip on January 26, 2005, 03:47:09 PM
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The past is gone. Never to return. From this moment on, live your moments deliberately and you will create no regrets in your future. Others have damaged our psyche. The unfortunate circumstances of our stories happened. Nothing can change our histories. A choice must be made by each of us. Happiness and peace does not just happen. We must take an active stand to be whole. The fools who have hurt us are weak. They used us as stepping stones to band-aid their esteem issues, to no avail. LIFE IN EVERY BREATH
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I'm sorry, but I do not understand who you are talking about, or to.
Do you mean that your past is gone, or that it should be? If it is, why are you here? Who are you addressing, and telling how to live? How can you say that anyone can live their lives and end up with no regrets? Surely, that is only possible for a saint, or for a person with no conscience. The first I cannot be this side of heaven. The second I would not be, even to get rid of my pain, and find a voice.
The people who hurt me were not fools. They were - are - hurt people who didn't know what else to do with their pain. What are you doing with yours?
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Hi, the people who hurt me weren't fools either. Hi October too.
Phillip, are you okay?
Welcome to Dr Grossman's message board from someone who uses it sometimes.
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I'm sorry, but I do not understand who you are talking about, or to.
Do you mean that your past is gone, or that it should be? If it is, why are you here? Who are you addressing, and telling how to live? How can you say that anyone can live their lives and end up with no regrets? Surely, that is only possible for a saint, or for a person with no conscience. The first I cannot be this side of heaven. The second I would not be, even to get rid of my pain, and find a voice.
The people who hurt me were not fools. They were - are - hurt people who didn't know what else to do with their pain. What are you doing with yours?
October, I apologize but this is my first experience on this board and yes I was referring to someone specific. The people I was referring to as being fools, are. How would you refer to persons who mercilessly beat 4 and 5 year old sisters into permanent physical and psychological damage in the name of religious fundamentalism? How would you refer to a mother who would abandon them to this same kind of abuse that she endured at their hands? Never to know the warmth of a mother's unconditional love. Your question: My answer is that I am learning to love myself by accepting who and what I am. I am not a product of my conditioning. My oppressors were in their own trance. I am now awake. As a result, I am able to love others, because I am able to trust them, because I am able to trust ME. The individual I refer to above was victimized by family criminals. They were not punished. I do not apologize or make excuses for criminals. Animals care more for their offspring than some humans.
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Phillip, were those your sisters? That's a horrific story so far. What happened to you?
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Personal power statements such as this are a good first step, Phillip. Stand where you are in this feeling for a while, get to know it, then I am sure you will be able to make the next step an even better one.
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Phillip, were those your sisters? That's a horrific story so far. What happened to you?
Not my sisters. My friend and partner. When I met her she was suffering with a life threatening Crohn's disease situation. "Coincidentally" her neice, her abused sister's daughter also has Chron's. Both are slowly starving to death as more and more of their intestines are being removed. I personally believe that the roots of this affliction are psychological.
I have my own issues with my father, but they pale against what I have seen this past year.
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Philip: have you read the Power of Now by Ekhart Tolle or __________ (insert a whole host of books on philosophies/enlightenment here)? I think I understood your meaning with your first post. Your friends are fortunate to have someone who is awake to light their path.
From what I have observed, people on this post are accustumed to hearing queries as initial posts, not philosophies. Perhaps that explains the confused responses?
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Philip: have you read the Power of Now by Ekhart Tolle or __________ (insert a whole host of books on philosophies/enlightenment here)? I think I understood your meaning with your first post. Your friends are fortunate to have someone who is awake to light their path.
From what I have observed, people on this post are accustumed to hearing queries as initial posts, not philosophies. Perhaps that explains the confused responses?
Thank-you mum. Yes I have read Tolle's book. In fact I presented the set of flash cards to my friend in question that Tolle has marketed as a follow up to his book "The Power of Now".
In my opinion, and I emphasize that it is my opinion, sooner or later, no matter what the level of damage one has suffered, a choice must be made by the victim to remain a victim or to do something else. Years ago I went through a set of EST type seminars with my daughter. Later I began to staff as a volunteer. One of the first concepts that they taught us was that we generally phase through 3 different roles. The roles are victim, villain and martyr. The goal of the seminars was, in part, to show people how they could choose another path; that of leader.
The guest who responded to my earlier post encouraged me to feel the anger. It is a positive step out of the victim role. Yet, it is admittedly only a step. The goal is obviously a loving, peaceful future. I have done my own share of damage. I carry that and it softens my judgement of others. I have found it useful to remain steadfast in my desire to do no further damage and recognize when my childhood imprinting is interfering with this goal. I thank you for your response.
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Philip, I appreciate the dialogue. It is always nice to talk to fellow travelers.
Have you read or heard Pema Chodron? Her work always inspires me, as do most Buddist teachers. What humans do to other humans to escape/avoid pain is always surprising. What humans can do help each other heal and transcend is even more profound.
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Phillip: What a wonderful concept. A journey from victimhood to responsibility and leadership. It is a journey. Very uplifting. Patz
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Philip, I appreciate the dialogue. It is always nice to talk to fellow travelers.
Have you read or heard Pema Chodron? Her work always inspires me, as do most Buddist teachers. What humans do to other humans to escape/avoid pain is always surprising. What humans can do help each other heal and transcend is even more profound.
Dear mum,
I have heard of Pema Chodron. I have never read any of her work.(I recall that she is female) My personal interests fall within the reams of human motivation, healing and psychology. I am a certified hypnotherapist and have studied astrology for over twenty years.
I am very interested in the holographic nature of reality and the human brain. My latest readings include Dr. Stephen Wolinsky's "Trances People Live" and his theories on what he has termed "Quantum Psychology".
He refers to "false core" issues within each of us with resulting "false core compensators". He states that psychological issues that cause one to live in reaction rather than deliberately are based on false assumptions that we have adopted, usually as children, in order to maintain some sort of internal stability. We unconsciously take these "trances" into our adult life, and when our internal integrity is threatened, we automatically flip into the childish loop of defensive response. Unfortunately, very few adult problems can be solved with childhood resources.
In some of his more recent work, and as a result of his synthesis of Hindu, Buddhist and western psychology, he states that one can never reach a full understanding of self, since we are a part of the "essence" of all that exists. We can only approach who and what we are by stripping away the layers of what we are NOT. He says for some there is peace and wholeness in this direction, but not necessarily.
He says that modern psychology often fails because an assumption is made that the individual is somehow broken. Once you strip away the layer of the "False Core" that is disfunctional, the distress goes with it.
Wolinsky stresses that there is only one essence, that permeates everything. All else is merely a condensation of that essence, and by definition, to condense is to delete information. We humans are just not in a position to see the big picture. He says, whatever one's assessment of self is, it is wrong. To define self is to limit self, based on faulty and incomplete information.
So I guess the issue is: Let go of the false assumptions concerning self, by whatever tools that work, when those assumptions limit your freedom to live as you would choose. Anyway thanks for letting me share these ideas and get them somewhat straight in my own mind. Peace.
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Philip: thanks for the book synopsis and recommendation. I will look into it.
It always amazes me how many paths and teachers there are, all with much of the same information or at least intention, packaged in as many ways as there are souls, it seems. A recent book I have found is: Debbie Ford's: the Secret of the Shadow. Only started it, but the concepts are less quantum physics and more Oprah, but thought provoking and thus helpful all the same.
On the Quantum Physics side of things: I am sure you have seen the film "what the bleep do we know?" A funny comment, from my sister, after reading a scathing review blasting the physics angle of the movie: "I'm glad I am not smart enough to question it".
Faith/science. Hmmmm. Such a big universe. Have a joyful day.
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I am that person that Phillip referenced with sincere compassion and insight. I was that person who spent thier lives as a prisoner of my own acceptance. Never knowing that it was because of my tragic upbringing, from which it always felt as though there were no escape...the things that happened to me were deeply embedded in my psyche. It controlled every action, every thought, every dream, every nuance of who I was. I was a victim, and I fit right into that role. It defined who I was and how I thought of myself. Because of those influences, It was deeply ingrained in me that things would always be this way. I would walk around the rest of my life with this black cloud over my head and a lead ball in my stomach. Never fully living life, never able to step out of the way I was designed to be.
And then there was Phillip. He showed me how to stop being the victim, and how to be the victor over all of the things that were inside me. He showed me that I was worthy of love, that I was a woman of worth and substance, value and he showed me unconditional love. I stopped being a victim, by just walking out of a repressive situation and taking charge of my own destiny. He took me by the hand and literally showed me how to be the victor and release myself from the chains that were binding me. I didn't know that it was me holding those chains around myself. It was me who had the key to unlock the heartache and free myself from the things of my past that hurt me. The things that were destroying me.
I owe more to Phillip than I could possibly ever describe. I view life with a whole new perspective now. I am worthy. I am worthy of love. I can give and receive love. The things that held me captive, no longer have a hold on me. This is not to say that I am home free...I am certain that my whole life I will have to work at things. But now I am on the right path.
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to Philip and his friend: I am so grateful to hear your story (not the life circumstance one, but the true self one you have helped each other discover). I, too, will still work at this life thing. I still observe that I can conduct my life as an emotional reaction to outside influences. I just recieved news from my attorney, that we have reached a dead end, as far as the courts go, in my relocation matter. Long story, but essentially I am not allowed to move where I wish without my ex husband or the court's permission (unless I want to leave my children...yup, I know, I make that choice!). What I noticed was that it affected me in a very fear based way, and brought up frustration, anger, and fear all over again for me, that I thought I had purged.
But now I recognize and acknowledge how that all feels, and allow myself to feel it, without judgement, so that I can process this pain....do something with it. What? Let it go. Plain and simple. Let it go. Choose something else to feel when it's gone. (and let it go again in 10 minutes when it comes back...and again until I am bored of this).
I am not my life "story".
So thanks for the reminder. Gonna go play with my dogs.
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to Philip and his friend: I am so grateful to hear your story (not the life circumstance one, but the true self one you have helped each other discover). I, too, will still work at this life thing. I still observe that I can conduct my life as an emotional reaction to outside influences. I just recieved news from my attorney, that we have reached a dead end, as far as the courts go, in my relocation matter. Long story, but essentially I am not allowed to move where I wish without my ex husband or the court's permission (unless I want to leave my children...yup, I know, I make that choice!). What I noticed was that it affected me in a very fear based way, and brought up frustration, anger, and fear all over again for me, that I thought I had purged.
But now I recognize and acknowledge how that all feels, and allow myself to feel it, without judgement, so that I can process this pain....do something with it. What? Let it go. Plain and simple. Let it go. Choose something else to feel when it's gone. (and let it go again in 10 minutes when it comes back...and again until I am bored of this).
I am not my life "story".
So thanks for the reminder. Gonna go play with my dogs.
PASS THROUGH
Do not hide from yourself
that which has hurt you.
This only gives your pain strength
Feel it fully
and pass through
That which you cherish
and cling to
will also change and depart
Feel it fully
and pass through
Commit without judgement,
without remorse or regret
Feel it fully
and pass through
As there is breath in every life
so is there life in every breath
Feel it fully
and pass through
When a way comes to an end,
change.
Having changed,
pass through
Step into the stream
neither you nor the stream
remain unchanged.
Having changed,
pass through
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Philip, I appreciate the dialogue. It is always nice to talk to fellow travelers.
Have you read or heard Pema Chodron? Her work always inspires me, as do most Buddist teachers. What humans do to other humans to escape/avoid pain is always surprising. What humans can do help each other heal and transcend is even more profound.
Dear mum,
I have heard of Pema Chodron. I have never read any of her work.(I recall that she is female) My personal interests fall within the reams of human motivation, healing and psychology. I am a certified hypnotherapist and have studied astrology for over twenty years.
I am very interested in the holographic nature of reality and the human brain. My latest readings include Dr. Stephen Wolinsky's "Trances People Live" and his theories on what he has termed "Quantum Psychology".
He refers to "false core" issues within each of us with resulting "false core compensators". He states that psychological issues that cause one to live in reaction rather than deliberately are based on false assumptions that we have adopted, usually as children, in order to maintain some sort of internal stability. We unconsciously take these "trances" into our adult life, and when our internal integrity is threatened, we automatically flip into the childish loop of defensive response. Unfortunately, very few adult problems can be solved with childhood resources.
In some of his more recent work, and as a result of his synthesis of Hindu, Buddhist and western psychology, he states that one can never reach a full understanding of self, since we are a part of the "essence" of all that exists. We can only approach who and what we are by stripping away the layers of what we are NOT. He says for some there is peace and wholeness in this direction, but not necessarily.
He says that modern psychology often fails because an assumption is made that the individual is somehow broken. Once you strip away the layer of the "False Core" that is disfunctional, the distress goes with it.
Wolinsky stresses that there is only one essence, that permeates everything. All else is merely a condensation of that essence, and by definition, to condense is to delete information. We humans are just not in a position to see the big picture. He says, whatever one's assessment of self is, it is wrong. To define self is to limit self, based on faulty and incomplete information.
So I guess the issue is: Let go of the false assumptions concerning self, by whatever tools that work, when those assumptions limit your freedom to live as you would choose. Anyway thanks for letting me share these ideas and get them somewhat straight in my own mind. Peace.
Philip (and respondants)....
I am moved by your take on life and respect anyone's efforts to 'move on' and 'heal'.
I am the victim / survivor of tyhe archetype of a N mother.
I spent 9 years in psychoanalysis to get to grips with the phenomenon that is Narcissism.
I went to university at the age of 35 and achieved a 2:1 in Psychology.
I know what I am talking about.........
You quote Wolinsky
Respectfully, this is BS and not helpful to all of us who have been strangled (metaphysically) by Narcissists.
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Sorry the 'quote' function didn't work at the end of my previous post and the last 'quote' wasn't Wolinsky but my own.......
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Serena. RE: the "BS". It is helpful or it is not. It has no value in and of itself. It is always a matter of perception and it doesn't matter if it doesn't matter to you.
Philip: Thanks for the poem/contemplation. It was meaningful to me.
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Serena. RE: the "BS". It is helpful or it is not. It has no value in and of itself. It is always a matter of perception and it doesn't matter if it doesn't matter to you.
Philip: Thanks for the poem/contemplation. It was meaningful to me.
I think the poem was very beautiful and I'm sorry if my previous post seemed harsh...
I probably believe too much in science to be influenced by the metaphysical, and that's probably a bad thing!!
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We humans are just not in a position to see the big picture. He says, whatever one's assessment of self is, it is wrong. To define self is to limit self, based on faulty and incomplete information.
Hello Phillip. I agree our brains limit our ability to understand pretty much anything outside of them. I don't know if there exists a 'big picture'. I can't see it. Is there one? Who knows? "I think, therefore I am" pretty much sums it up for me. I don't know anything, other than the idea that there is an 'I' that thinks. Everthing else is conjecture. Including anything that anyone says, in a book, any book, any religious script, anything at all. We can only think for ourselves and test what we think with others.
So I guess the issue is: Let go of the false assumptions concerning self, by whatever tools that work, when those assumptions limit your freedom to live as you would choose.
I have a problem with 'live as you would choose'. Because if you strip away all the false selves, all the selves in fact (because each notion of self is wrong?) - what are you left with? A thinking 'I' if you're lucky. A psychotic 'not-I' if you are unlucky. It happens.
It is a 'self' that chooses. When we are at some kind of peace with ourselves, when we are contributing to helping in the world and not harming, it is probably circumspect to stop peeling away the layers. Because we cannot exist without any sense of self.
I guess this is a reminder that we are living beings and we need to retain some sense of self, otherwise we stop functioning. Balance is good. luego
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Serena (guest?):
Absolutely no apology needed for there was no offense taken. We are all entitled to believe what ever we want. My only intention was to point out the option of choice for all of us. We get to think, feel and believe whatever we want.
Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. If we take the charge and emotion out of things for a moment, it is possible to see how we can choose. Even those Narcissists we all have as part of our stories give us the opporunity to choose how we feel. (I believe this, but that doesn't mean I am necessarily good at remembering it all the time!)
You said you were (forgive me if I got this part wrong): "metaphysically strangled by a narcissist." If you looked at my situation, you could say that, also. But (and yes, this still takes daily work) I choose not to give my power to that knuckledragging control freak or the sexist court system (I know, I don't sound very non judgemental here.... still working at it).
I get to decide if I want to be hurt, I get to decide how I feel, not him. I own the pain, regardless of how it came about, or in what form it was delivered in. It's mine, he can't have it....and when I am done with it and processed it and (hopefully) transformed it, I get to use it to grow.
It's hard for good people to see pain as useful, for we never want to cause it for others..and when it is dumped on us we are stunned. Perhaps ,like me, you were trained to be kind at all costs (even our own)... and being powerful was for "bad" people. And Pain is BAD. But pain is important. It shows us things about ourselves. It can transform us, and teach us that we are indeed good and deserving of love and damnit, we don't HAVE to be victims if we don't want to be. WE can believe something else for ourselves and work our way out. The N's may never get it. I spent long hours last night reminding myself of that (retaliation thoughts are soooo draining). The bottom line is: I DO have power. Its MY life.
"Victim" is a label I can choose NOT to put on myself, regardless of what other people might say. What other people do is not my concern.
I wish you well. I am sure you are a good soul, and are finding your way out as well. Sending you some good energy (even if you don't believe in it!) We're all in this together (even the knuckledraggers....they just don't know it).
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He refers to "false core" issues within each of us with resulting "false core compensators". He states that psychological issues that cause one to live in reaction rather than deliberately are based on false assumptions that we have adopted, usually as children, in order to maintain some sort of internal stability. We unconsciously take these "trances" into our adult life, and when our internal integrity is threatened, we automatically flip into the childish loop of defensive response. Unfortunately, very few adult problems can be solved with childhood resources.
Agreed.
He says that modern psychology often fails because an assumption is made that the individual is somehow broken. Once you strip away the layer of the "False Core" that is disfunctional, the distress goes with it.
Psychology does not assume the individual is broken. It assumes that the person has some problems that can be mitigated and helped by psychotherapy and maybe meds. When some people strip away the "false core" without excellent professional help (and even with it) they get worse (i.e., regressed, psychotic). So that isn't in itself as solution. It's more complicated than merely stripping away layers of false self. The person's ego functions have to be strengthened first.
bunny
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How would you refer to persons who ...
The individual I refer to above was victimized by family criminals. They were not punished. I do not apologize or make excuses for criminals. Animals care more for their offspring than some humans.
Not ignoring you; I have not been able to visit for a few days.
I am glad you are finding a way forward. You are rightly very angry about what has happened to those you love, and I am glad you are helping them to find a way out, and a way to live.
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There are no words to describe how Phillip has helped me, even where the mental health ptrofessionals could not. He shows me how to love myself and I can say with 100% assuredness that is it he who is responsible for my healing and being now, in this moment, as far as I have come. Learning how to love Naomi, something I was not only not taught, but a thing that was destroyed in me from a very early age.
I owe my life to Phillip, I was truthfully dying, and he arrived on the scene and I am so much better for knowing him. He teaches me new things about myself and others evry day.
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Welcome Naomi!
Learning how to love Naomi, something I was not only not taught, but a thing that was destroyed in me from a very early age.
You're amongst many people who have suffered in similar ways. We help each other as much as we are able. We're all human and fallible, nobody has the 'right' answers and here we exchange many opinions on what happens to us. Please post some more if you want to! best wishes
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Thank you so much, Portia.
I remember, as a tiny little child, I lapsed into this "fog", unable to understand why I was even born, why I was alive, who I was....it was as though I was so alone in this big huge world, and I didn't connect with anyone, no one was there for me on an emotional level, I felt so insecure and it hurt. Even as a small child, I remember feeling that hurt, it was bigger than I could cope with, so into this fog, I went. I stayed in this fog, being abused, and horribly neglected and I could never concentrate in school, I never stayed in one school for more than 3 months at a time, so I never had a chance to become familiar, I was unable to find comfort. Then I was dumped off at my grandparents, who I stayed with for most of my remaining formative years, and they were very strict and religious, to the point of disastrous consequences for me psychologically. They would ritualistically beat "the demons" out of me. I was the offspring of a man who lead my mother into sin, therefore I was a child of the devil.
I went to this Christian school while I lived with them, and my grandparents even gave the school written permission to take the "Betsy Ann" to me, which was a rather large paddle, a stick with childrens names carved into it. I was beaten by the pastor for being accused of cheating on a test, which I know to this day I never did. Being beaten for something you never EVER did, with your grandparents full endorsement, left a lasting scar on me psychologically.
Today, I have come to terms with my abusive grandparents, who are still alive and still obsessive about their religion, and I"let" them forgive ME.
That was the hardest thing I've ever had to do, but I did it to free myself, and be a bigger person.
Thanks for listening.
~Naomi
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Naomi:
All due respect to Phillip, your loving friend. How wonderful, to have another person open that door for you...but YOU passed through.
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THANK YOU, Mum!!!!
:)
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All I did was pass on the gift that my mother gave us kids. She died last year. She gave us unconditional love. My sisters and I are in agreement that she alone was responsible for what sanity we have. There is absolutely no substitute for love. It makes all things possible. IMHO
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By the way, wasn't Phils poem a stroke of brilliance and compassion and understanding on the deepest level?
I will repost it because I love it so much, and it means a lot to me.
~Naomi
________________________________________
Do not hide from yourself
that which has hurt you.
This only gives your pain strength
Feel it fully
and pass through
That which you cherish
and cling to
will also change and depart
Feel it fully
and pass through
Commit without judgement,
without remorse or regret
Feel it fully
and pass through
As there is breath in every life
so is there life in every breath
Feel it fully
and pass through
When a way comes to an end,
change.
Having changed,
pass through
Step into the stream
neither you nor the stream
remain unchanged.
Having changed,
pass through