Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 05:03:29 PM

Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 05:03:29 PM
I suppose I'm looking for some words of advice on how to handle myself next week at the courthouse.  This is the second time since August that we are going before the judge regarding N's request to increase his parenting time with the children.

This battle has been going on for a year now.  The last time I met with him face to face was back in November during a four hour mediation meeting.  I left out of there feeling like every last bit of energy was sucked out of me and I ended up with a major migraine that Imitrex couldn't even touch.  Anyway, I am so dreading the fact that I will be in close quarters with him again.  One plus is that my attorney will be present (wasn't permitted at mediation) so I am hoping that my attorney's presence will help ease my anxieties.  

Please keep me in your thoughts and /or prayers.  Any positive vibes would be appreciated as well.  I just hope that the children won't be forced to spend more time with N than they already do.  So far things appear to be in my favor but one never knows the whims of a judge on any given day.
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: miaxo on January 28, 2005, 05:05:09 PM
I posted this thread....I was logged in but it came up as guest. Oh well.
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 06:12:08 PM
miaxo, my thoughts are for you.

How to be? Cool, calm, collected, sure of yourself and your objectives and determined. Armed with the facts and your own self-assurance. Protecting your children - what could be a more powerful, truthful, motivating force? Keep them in your mind and not him....luego
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: bunny on January 28, 2005, 06:21:07 PM
Four hours of mediation without an attorney??? Sounds pretty bad all right. I'm glad your attorney will be there next week. Sheesh.

Is there any way you can plan for ways to make it easier on yourself? Some support people you can call right afterward? Bring a stuffed animal in the car? Have a plan for doing something good for yourself afterward?

If you can imagine a wall of fire, steel, glass, angels, whatever, surrounding you when he is in the proximity, would that help? I'm not much of a visualizer but I'd use any strategy to increase distance between myself and this individual.

good luck!
bunny
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 08:07:27 PM
Miaxo,
Sounds awful. I posted this on onlyrenting's thread. It has information about dealing with NPDs and BPDs in court and through the legal system. I am sending you much strength. When I've had tough things to face, I've wrapped myself in white light and envisioned blue light (for healing) wrapped around any environment that was troublesome. If nothing else, it made me feel better and more prepared.

bunny's right about trying to get some support there with you or having someone to talk with and process after it's over. Keep us informed.

Best,

bludie
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 08:16:11 PM
Guest:

I went to court with my best friend when she was divorcing her N bipolar husband.  (When he sent his support checks through the court he would burn cigerette holes in the checks)  My thoughts and prayers will be with you and your children.  Just have as many friends and others available after/during the ordeal as possible.  Many hugs Patz
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: serena on January 28, 2005, 08:22:32 PM
Quote from: Anonymous
Guest:

I went to court with my best friend when she was divorcing her N bipolar husband.  (When he sent his support checks through the court he would burn cigerette holes in the checks)  My thoughts and prayers will be with you and your children.  Just have as many friends and others available after/during the ordeal as possible.  Many hugs Patz


I echo all the kind words posted for you.  I also wish you strength because you will need it.

Be brave, positive and good!!!
Title: Ooops!
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 08:29:00 PM
Here are other links that may give you more legal information:
http://www.eddylaw.com/vol2_no1_art4.htm
http://www.bpdcentral.com/bks/spy.shtml

Sorry Miaxo. Here those URLs.

Best,

bludie
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: onlyrenting1 on January 28, 2005, 09:02:35 PM
Miaxo,

Good luck in court. I went to Barnes and Nobel today to look for that book bludie suggested,subject:  Spitting and P-Disorders.  

Onlyrenting1,
Here are other links that may give you more legal information:
http://www.eddylaw.com/vol2_no1_art4.htm
http://www.bpdcentral.com/bks/spy.shtml

I couldn't find it. I did go to the Divorce shelf and skimed over the
DO it yourself Divorce laws in CA. I know I need to get very legal in every point or it will come back to haunt me.
Im getting a big lump in my throat trying to face this. I know its best not to worry it will all work out.

I hope an attorney can see you thru this with a happy out come.
We will be there  with our prayers. I like the Idea of the blue lights around you or maybe imagine angles with swords surrounding you.  
What ever it takes to not show fear and be determined about what you want with your childern.

Be strong, onlyrenting
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: mum on January 28, 2005, 10:44:11 PM
Miaxo: I can relate only too well. My ex N and I have been to court in a long, drawn out trial, and through months of mediation, and now another possible trial (regarding visitation time, no less).  I feel your fear and pain and if I could, I would take it all from you as long as you need the break (I have learned what to do with pain....so it's not a problem).  Short of that...I will send you the love and positive energy you need to keep your chin up.  How about this: picture all of the anonymous people you have met here as your own personal angels...our wings will keep you safe.
     The protective light or bubble is a great idea: it is your aura, keep it in close and when you pick up on his negative energy or others (courtrooms are full of it)...drop it down and away from you.  Fill yourself up with how you want to feel.
     You are going to be ok.  Having family in the courtroom helped me feel better.  Sticking feng shui items in my bag, wearing power colors, etc., tried em all but nothing was a magic totem.  I didn't know it then, but the bottom line is that  power is internal and not dependent on circumstances.  You are doing the right thing.  You have a great deal of power...you are a mother bear protecting your young.  You know your children.....you know what they need.
      I don't know if this next part helps, but, I think I may have made a mistake when I expressed my hurt and resentment toward my ex in court.
My attorneys at the time, thought my "righteous indignation" was appropriate, but I am not so sure (especially now, since I lost the case).
It wasn't about custody or visitation at the time (was about my relocation), but I can see where a judge might not feel confident about siding with someone who still has "resentful victim" written all over her face (however justifiable).  Perhaps, like me, you truly feel the kids are better off not spending more time with him...and if he is like my ex N, he sees the children as possessions to control and tools to do battle with, primarily. It's hard to do when they use the children like that, but stay focused on sounding like you have no intention on undermining their relationship with their dad, but you simply believe (whatever it is) is/is not in their best interest.  
I am sure your attorney has coached you, but the "I meassage"  is important to stick with:  "I do/do not believe this is in (the child's) best interest" and prepare to back it up.  Don't take it personally when you are attacked by his lawyer for speaking for the kids as in "heresay"...you probably already know that no parent can really speak for the children in court. If you stick with " I believe" and "this is what I see...." no one can strike that. Most of all, don't sweat it.  The opposing attorney was hired by an ass to be an ass (match made in heaven, I called it).  Focus on your child, and avoid expressing your former or present fear of him (unless there is documented abuse of course)....
Focus on what you want, and internally, how it feels to have what you want, and you will draw it to you.  Focus on the negative and you get more (I think I saw this in action in my case).  Life does not have to be hard.  You deserve it not to be anymore.
Another thing, in the "long run" that has helped me heal and let go is this: as much as I loathe my ex, and as rotten as a person I may think he is, he is my kids' dad.   They will have to have a relationship with him that is out of my influence. Accepting that has helped them and me a lot.  Because I can let that be, and have learned to be happier just myself, they are coming to a point where they will stand up to him and for themselves... important learning for them.
Good luck.......stay the course. You have amazing power (and a lot of angel wings!)
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: miaxo on January 29, 2005, 02:35:05 PM
I wanted to thank everyone for the kind and encouraging words.  I will definitely use the visualization technique.

I know I can do this.  Sometimes I think the anxiety and anticipation beforehand causes me more distress than the actual day of reckoning.

Thanks for the links and I will keep you updated.  My attorney has advised me that it may not be resolved this week and that the judge may order more mediation or possibly psychological evals. Initially I felt that the evals would be a good thing b/c maybe he would reveal himself as a N but that probably wouldn't be the case since he is so delusional and believes in his false self.

Anyone have experience with N's and the psychological evaluation process?

Best wishes everyone!
Mia
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: bunny on January 29, 2005, 02:37:20 PM
Here's a link to info about "The Parental Evaluation Process" (psych evals):

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/

bunny
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: mirror2 on February 01, 2005, 09:34:50 PM
Bunny,

I was looking at the web site referenced above, and I was taken aback to discover that it's geared toward getting fathers full custody.  It actually states, "When joint custody is not possible or workable, we often advocate for fathers as custodial parents. Statistics show that custodial fathers are the most likely to encourage a positive relationship between their children and the other parent and to raise happy, healthy children."

These all-encompassing statements are scary, especially when you have an ex-N father of your children lurking in the background and probably reading this web site for tips.  It reminds me again how difficult it is to keep the N at a safe distance from the kids.

Mir2
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: Philski on February 01, 2005, 09:54:58 PM
Good luck next week.  Will send positive thoughts of light and love.  Stay true to yourself.  How do your kids feel about him?
Philski
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: miaxo on February 01, 2005, 10:22:45 PM
Philski

My kids appear to have mixed feelings regarding their Dad.  My daughter is more consistent with not wanting to go and visit with him especially if it is overnight.  She is torn between wanting to love her Dad while not feeling bonded to him.  For the most part, x N targets her with his negative onslaughts and is much easier on my 4 yo son.  I think mostly b/c my 4 yo is still in awe of him whereas, my 7 yo has always had a *strong* personality and doesn't think twice about challenging her Father.
Don't get me wrong, she is a very respectful child but she is smart enough to realize her Dad isn't genuine.

Through all this, I always try to put on my "Happy face" and encourage them to go with Dad and tell them they have each other and will have fun during their visits. I do this b/c I know the courts will not take away his rights. However, this doesn't stop me from slowly building my case.  Patience is a virtue.

For the most part, my daughter just "gets through" her weekends with Dad while my son is beginning to complain ever so quietly...here and there.  I don't know if he is just following his sister's lead or if he is beginning to sense things aren't quite right on his own.  Only time will tell.

I do notice that when their Dad isn't around that they never ask for him and never want to call him.  Even when he arrives to pick them up they will stall and stall.  It's hard to *push* them out the door but I tell them that Daddy loves you in his own way.  Maybe I shouldn't be telling them that....maybe it would be better that I said nothing.  I don't know.

Tomorrow is court.  I will be strong for my children.  I am so hoping that tomorrow will bring resolution...at least for the time being.

Thanks for all the kindness.

Take care.
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: miaxo on February 02, 2005, 08:10:54 PM
:D  :D  :D
Yipee!!!  The judge ruled in my favor!  No overnights during the school week and she ordered that x N has to pay 75% of the children's therapy.

I am so relieved and happy. My lawyer was awesome.


Thanks to everyone here.  All your thoughts and prayers helped.  I was nervous during it but kept reminding myself to follow the advice I received on here.

Thanks again!  I think I'm going to go and do the HAPPY DANCE now!

Best to all of you!

Mia
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: bunny on February 02, 2005, 09:54:54 PM
Mia,

Congratulatons!!   :lol:

I'm sorry about the the site that I told you about. There are many articles on there that could be used by BOTH parents. But it is slanted toward fathers. Don't let that stop you from using the info on there. Not that you need it anymore.

bunny
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: onlyrenting1 on February 03, 2005, 01:35:27 AM
Miaxo,

Im doing the Happy dance with you. Can you give some details about how the Judge decided in your favor.

1. Was it brought up about your husband being an N?

2. Did your kids get to say anything or have part somehow?

3. Were you paying the therapy before and something changed so he can pay now the 75%

4. Im so happy for your family and the kids, But can he still come back and try to take your rulings away. Did his lawyer try and fight this?

Give some details when you catch your breath.

Im about to venture into life without my N of 26yrs and I have a 12yr old.

please share   onlyrenting
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: miaxo on February 03, 2005, 07:35:35 AM
onlyrelenting

Thank you.

To answer your questions:
 1.  No, it wasn't brought up that he was a N.  I just recently came to the realization that there was a diagnosis for his personality.  However, a report was written by a therapist who conducted a CNA (custody neutral assessment) and it was not favorable to him.  His narcissistic traits came shining through in so many ways. A couple of examples are...he claimed that he never took advantage of avaiable time in the past with kids during the summers b/c he was so poorly paid (had just been proven in court that he makes at least $100,000 a year), he also went on to accuse me of everything in the book from being physicallly abusive to being a substance abuser.  Totally untrue and of course he had nothing to back his allegations.  **Keep in mind if you ever have to go to an asssessment like that NEVER slam the other parent to the mediator.  IT will always make you look bad no matter how justified you are in saying the things.
I always tried to appear cooperative and if I had a negative to say about N I would always buffer it with a positive.  For instance, I know how important it is for the kids to have a relationship with their Dad....and then I would say something like I would like to see this or that worked on so the kids can better  bond with him.  Basically, be diplomatic when dealing with the mediators.  In my case, it became very transparent that his motive was to get an additional easy overnight (pick-up at 6 pm and drop-off at 7:00 AM next day) to reduce his child support by 28%.

2 and 3 My children were interviewed at the CNA evaluation back in November. They didn't go to court yesterday.  Thankfully. My daughter was very anxious during her interview but was able to tell the evaluator that she didn't like going to Dad's and that she didn't sleep well over there.   Believe me, my daughter had a lot of backlash from her Dad over this and he continues to tell her that she is a liar and continues to be verbally abusive...I had proof of him admitting such in an email...hence....the court ordered therapy for the children and he was ordered in our orignial divorce decree to pay 75%.

4. Yes, his lawyer tried to fight it.  Judge said no.  I'm sure he could try to appeal it but I don't think he would have a chance.  I had a lot of proof against him.  All I can advise you to do is to  always document everything, save all emails, and save any other coorespondence from N. All that came back to bite him in the a$$.  It takes patience but do it and be organized about it.  It was well worth all the time doing it.

Oh, yeah I also had a conservative judge.  She wasn't liberal and wasn't willing to disrupt the children's weekday routine during the school week. The more conservative the judge, the better results for the Mother and the children.

In my N's case, he thinks he is smarter than everyone but proves time and time again that he is not.  He always ends up sabotaging himself.  Knock on wood..every motion he has ever brought against me he has lost.   Nevertheless, it is always very upsetting especially since the kids were pulled in this last time.

Good luck to you.  Feel free to PM me if you wish.  

Hope I answered your questions.

Mia
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: Philski on February 03, 2005, 09:57:53 AM
Great news Mia!  Especially for your kids.  Thanks for the tidbits of info that most certainly will be helpful in dealing with other ex-N spouses.  I've dealt with a mediator before and as a result, have a good relationship with my 13 year old daughter today.  
The mediator are much more objective than the parties involved and are often able to look through the smoke screens that are often put out.  Glad yours could see through the smoke.
Philski
Title: Wahoo!
Post by: Anonymous on February 03, 2005, 06:14:42 PM
Mia,
I am very happy for you and your children. Can you spell RELIEF?! Thanks for sharing your saga with us and for providing onlyrenting1 with some good first-hand insight.

Best,

bludie
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: mum on February 03, 2005, 09:49:55 PM
Mia!  Fantastic!!!  So incredibly happy to hear your news. Thanks for the insights....as we are headed that way (visitation/evaluation).
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2005, 10:37:17 AM
Mia:

I have been reading for a while your on going epic with the N and your children.  I am very thankful it turned at well for you, but most of all for your children.  Happy feet indeed!  Hugs, Patz
Title: Trusting??
Post by: Brigid on February 06, 2005, 03:24:46 PM
I am new to this site, but finally needed to have a better understanding of the n personality that my therapist kept referring to.  I was married for 22 years to a man that I believed was kind, good-hearted, a good father and husband, took his vows to the core of his soul and loved me.  18 months ago I found out that he completely had me and virtually everyone else in his life fooled.  I found out he was having an affair with a married woman (although he lied to the therapist and I and said she was already out of her marriage.  He also lied and said they had not been sexual), had been lying to me for at least 15 years about his disinterest in intimacy, saying he had a low sex drive, meds affected it, he was too tired, etc., etc.  When he broke the news that he was leaving the marriage, he also admitted to having a very strong interest in pornography and would masturbate rather than be intimate with me.  He reluctantly agreed to counselling for six weeks, but ultimately walked out of a joint session, drove home and put clothes in the car, said good-bye to his daughter and left.  That was 16 months ago and we are still working through the divorce with no real end in site.  We have virtually no contact with each other at all.

I have continued in therapy weekly with the man we saw as a couple.  Thank God for Scott as he has saved my life.  He spent 13 hours counseling my husband--6 alone and 7 together.  Scott was the one to explain that my husband is an n and one of the worst cases he has ever encountered, and therefore is incapable of feeling badly about anything he has done, either in the past or present.  It has taken me so long to come to terms with realizing that he was so not the man I thought he was.  I have had so much anger bubbling inside of me that I cannot release because he will not have any contact with me.  I know it is wasted energy to get angry with him anyway, but I keep thinking it will make me feel better.

We have two children, a son who is 20 and a sophomore in college and a 16-year-old daughter who is a junior in high school.  Fortunately they are old enough to make their own decisions about how they feel about their father, what he has done and how much time they want to spend with him.  Unfortunately, he went through a major cleansing process when he first decided to break the news to us and told his son all about his interest in pornography and masturbation.  He left out the part where he denied me intimacy, leaving my son with the impression that I was the one denying his father.  I had to correct his impression so he could truly understand what I was dealing with.  He would have told his daughter too, but I stepped in and stopped him.  Someday I will tell her the truth, but she is not ready yet.  He sees her for an hour or so on Tuesday evenings and she is suppose to spend every other Saturday night with him.  Lately, she is choosing to go over there later and later and come home earlier on Sunday.  I worry about what he could expose her to since he has lost all sense of decency or morality (or the impression that he had that), but at least she has her own car and the ability to leave there if she is uncomfortable.

I think that reading many of the entries on this website has helped me to see the futility of my continued anger and need to get back at him in some fashion.  I like to think that someday he will regret the way he has checked out of his children's lives and the way he treated me, but I know that will never happen and there really is no way for me to hurt him back.

I am having to learn about a whole new world of sex addiction, n behavior, lack of empathy, and what it feels like to hit bottom and try to crawl back up.  My children are my light and my therapist is my strength and hope.  I really have no family and just had to deal with the death of my mother on top of the divorce.  I think that has been a major setback in my healing process, in large part because of the way my husband chose to handle it.  Instead of calling or even sending a card, he sent a typed letter which mainly dealt with how hard it was for him to have to write the letter, but he felt he must, yadda, yadda.  I once again allowed this to hurt me since I thought he could at least show some sympathy at the loss of my mother. My therapist has to remind me that he CAN'T do anything else and I must stop allowing these events to get to me.

I look forward to the divorce being complete, but my n husband and his n father are in business together and hiding and lying about assets and income.  Fortunately, I have hired one of the best divorce attorneys in town, who has hired a forensic accountant to try to stay on top of it all.

For those of you who are further along in the process, can you ever develop trust again?  I was always a very trusting person and now feel like that innocence has been taken away and I question everyone and everything.
Title: court next week with Ex N
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2005, 11:02:25 AM
Brigid

I have been divorced for five years now and I feel it's in my best interests as well as my children's best interests to never trust x N. Believe me, he has more than earned my lack of trust.  Shame or regret will never be felt by him.  It has been difficult for me to come to terms with this but the overwhelming evidence is there.  

At least where my x N is concerned he really doesn't seem to have a conscience.  He will do just about anything as long as he feels he can get away with it...as long as he can still keep up appearances.

Since he lost in court I haven't heard a peep from him.  I'm enjoying the peace and quiet but at the same time wonder what else he is plotting b/c he doesn't take well to losing.  I have remained quiet on my end and as hard as it was I refrained from doing any "victory" dances in his view.  

The less I have to do with him and the less I feed into him (his emails, phone calls) the better off I am.  My husband has been very helpful and will weed through his emails in case there is anything of importance.  My poor husband also gets *stressed* from all of this and he just can't comprehend how a man can act the ways in which N does...especially regarding his treatment of the children.  

The eyes of your children will be opened to what their Dad is and I'm sure that will happen without you saying a word.  My 7 yo doesn't know the term N but she knows something is "not right" with Dad.  He isn't genuine with her and never bonded with her.  She feels its.

Best of luck to you in your situation.  I can't imagine how difficult it is for you after all the years you invested in your marriage.  But now you have a new beginning.  If you haven't begun to feel it already...you will....the feeling of being released from a prison that you weren't even aware  you were in.  At least that was my situation.  X N was also very rageful and physically destructive.  I was always walking on egg shells b/c there was never any rhyme or reason to his outbursts.  Right after the divorce he went to anger management on his own accord only to report to me that he was "cured" after two sessions.  I have a strong suspiscion that he had a falling out with the therapist.  During his employment as a VP he was instructed to attend "workshops" regarding his temper and lack of controlling it in the presence of clients. He did well as long as he was never challenged.

Well, that's enough as I'm going off on a tangent now.

take care.
mia