Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: bkkabri on February 02, 2005, 01:11:05 PM
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I am posting because its been three months and I still feel the effects from my experience with my ex N. A good high school friend of mine died from a heart attact this weekend at the age of 35. He has two daughters and a wife. Losing my dad makes me realize the pain those girls are going to feel knowing they wont be able to share a life with their dad. I am glad they have a supportive family to help them thru this. The problem I am having is that my ex N told me that I should get over my dad dying because it was seven years ago and she wants to talk about diseases at night that affect her patients. She basically condemned me for making the request to tone down our conversations about people dying because I am not a medical professional and sometimes talking about death strikes a cord inside to open old wounds. Instead of being an understanding person from the medical profession, she told me she doesnt care about her patients personal stories. She is there to diagnose the disease. I wish I understood her behavior, I didnt tell her to throw it in my face or make me feel bad. I told her because I wanted her to know that sometimes I need a break from the detail of somebody having their legs cut off. I feel like she thinks I was a weak person for having feelings for the loss of my dad to AIDS. I hope these young woman find a person in their life to support their down times like the holidays because when you lose a parent-it hurts like hell forever. You move on, but you know thinking about it will make you feel sad. My ex talking about people being sick all the time made me feel sad. I dont understand why making that request was a problem. I miss the person(fascade) I met. I guess I dont understand why she wanted me at all. Thanks for letting me vent. I have this funeral tonight and I know its going to open wounds and feelings that I know these poor girls are going to know.
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bkkabri:
I am so sorry for your loss (both). I agree, it is so hard to lose a parent even as an adult, and most adults I know (and me) see dying while our children are young, as certainly one pain we never want for our children.
It is perfectly understandable to me why this brought up your own pain. It's called empathy. Most people feel it.
As far as understanding your ex....the "N" sums it up. You did say EX did you not? That is another operative letter (grouping). Do you HAVE to deal with her (as in children shared?) I maintain civility with my ex for that reason, but we NEVER converse about anything other than what must be discussed logistically for the kids. If I did not have children with my ex, he could fall off the face of the earth and I wouldn't know or care.
It sounds like you are doing what sane people do when they feel sad...feeling it. Your ex is (dare I say it?) a bitch. Um, once again, she is your EX, right? Seems like there is a good reason for that.
Go ahead and feel. And consider whether conversations with her are worth your time.
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thanks mum, she is a bitch. The problem I have is that she has really taken my self esteem away. I tried so hard to be a good man to her, and in the beginning she made me feel like I could do no wrong. Then she slowly drifted away with being cruel and avoiding me. I am hurting inside because she made me feel ashamed to mourn the loss of my dad to a disease like AIDS. I cant help how he died. I only asked her to respect the fact that I didnt want to talk about deadly diseases in the evening after working all day. I wanted to share my life with her, and think about a future. I feel so bad for these girls. I know this is going to kill them inside for years to come. My ex told me she didnt want kids because she was selfish with her time and wanted to do things for her. I guess that was the red flag I should have watched out for because looking back, this girl never was very affectionate. I remember one time I was Santa Claus for a group of 15 kids and they loved it. It was a great day. I look back now because I realize that she didnt come because she was finishing up work at home. Now all I think about is how she could care less that I was trying to bring in the Christmas spirit for these families and for us. She wouldnt even give me a family. To make things worst, on Christmas morning she bought me pornos because she said I like sex. It was the most heart wrenching feeling knowing that an intelligent woman would go to a sex store, buy these videos, wrap them up and put them under the tree thinking that this is what I would like as a gift. Like I said, she has screwed up my self esteem pretty bad. I dont feel like I can talk anymore to women because I feel like they will rip me apart because I said hello inside of hi. I am on egg shells. I wish I could find me again. I miss the old me. I thought I had a lot to offer. She makes me feel like I am weak person for having feelings.
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Oh, Boy. What an ordeal. You just married/got involved with the wrong person, that's all. To me it looks fairly simple (though the effects are complicated, I know). You seem like a nice guy. (and yes, nice guys do get girls). She seemed like a nice person. She was not.
Honestly, you sound like my fiance. The nicest guy on the planet. He also had attracted women who did not turn out to be what they "presented" to him. Not honest. He is. He deserves honesty... and in that way, you seem alike.
Here is a (hopefully hopeful) story. Twenty four years ago, this nice man and I were engaged to be married. Because of my own poor self image (realized that much later), I left him (far too nice, not enough "sparks", he was Jewish, I was Catholic....and a hundred other lame reasons). I dumped him horribly, moved 2000 miles away. Made a consious effort to forget him (never quite managed as my recurring dreams for a good 15 years were of him, not acknowledging me..... we don't need Freud for that one).
I married a selfish, abusive baby/bully. Had two kids with him. He treated me horribly. I divorced him, married another, less overtly abusive, but nonetheless Narcissistic man. Evidence and semi-horror stories of both men's "labels" could fill a book, but that's not the point of this abreviated life tale. I woke up....divorced wrong man #2 and set out to take care of myself, find out what was driving my choices...lots of work and well worth it.
A few years ago, I was "reintroduced" to this nice man. Thinking he would never have forgiven me, I was reluctant. But for him, there was nothing to forgive. I simply had to take that path away from him. He was and is, not only "nice" to others (sometimes to a fault of believing in someone's goodness even if it is not real evident....we share that trait at times) but secure enough in himself to allow people he loves to be where they are and to do what they need to do... Not at all a control freak....(funny how I married two of them).
He had married and become a father, divorced, got into another not so great relationship, etc. Long story short, we are "together" again. Even though we are not living on the same coast (my first ex has prevented me from moving back home with my kids so far), we couldn't ever see ourselves with any other partners.
I now, finally, truly love myself enough to see in me what he always saw. My life has come full circle. If he and I are not evidence of miracles and reasons to keep faith, I'm not sure what is.
Now, how could this tale apply to you?
If you are a kind, feeling, sensitive man, as you appear to be, please do not feel this is a fault. You may have to wait a while to find a sensitive, caring woman who is secure enough about herself, who loves herself enough to accept such genuine love from another. That's all. Give yourself a break. I know it looks like women are looking for the "dangerous" guys.....a lot of them are, I know I was. But I was a self hating mess, looking for someone(s) to validate my self hatred (it's not like I knew it at the time, mind you).
The world needs kind, sensitive men. So you wear your heart on your sleeve? So you are offended by porn (ug, what a horrible Christmas!)....? So what? Be who you are. You sound awesome to me!
And perhaps after you process your pain over your losses, you could truly divorce your ex, as in emotionally. Really, what kind of cold heart do you have to have to: A) tell anyone how they should feel about thier father dying and B) have anything at all to say about HOW someone died? (Is homophobia another one of her endearing traits?)
See, sometimes anger is ok.....it's telling us something. Staying angry or making a habit out of us just makes life suck.
Your feelings around her certainly tell you something. Dump her again and again in your head and heart. Best to you.
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I'm very sorry to hear about your friend. It is tragic.
bunny
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thanks mum. I have to be honest, I am not really considered "nice" by people. I am a genuine guy who shared a moment because she was opening the wound with her talk of medicine and people's disease. It just became too much because I didnt want to relive the past. Seeing someone you care about rot from AIDS is unbelievable. I have no medical training and the hell I went through is nothing compared to my dad. My problem is that I did show that I had a heart and that I do care for people. I trully thought being a medical professional she could understand my loss and relate to the fact that this is not a normal situation. Unfortunately, she admitted in the end that she doesnt date guys like me because I was the only guy who made her feel she could let her hair down. Now she is with guys who she feels superior to and doesnt feel threatened. One of our biggest problems was she always thought I was interested in other women. I could never do anything to make her see that I was there for her. She actually bought me the porn to be cruel. On valentines day she went off on me because I mentioned the Surreal Life on VH1. She told me that she wanted the night to be about her and no other women. She was mad about the bay watch woman on the program. I never said anything about her. Its like she just freaked out. When she left me she was so cruel telling me that I dont make enough money for her, that I should be over my dad dying, telling me that her family knows I am envious of them, and that she didnt like me helping her with her finances because I knew too much about her. She actually had the nerve to yell at me about a bruise on her leg from last year because I questioned what happened. It looked like it hurt. Like I said, I miss the fascade. I wish I understood how this could happen. How could you love me and say and do the most wonderful things and then just freak out on me for a year? I am truly messed up by this. I wish she cared. I know she doesnt, and that is what hurts. She wont even acknowledge the things she did.
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Hi, Again. Since you found your way to this board, maybe in the same manner I did, do you think she has NPD? If so, perhaps finding out more about it may help you. When I made first made that connection about my ex, I could've sworn, everything ever written about NPD was his life history!
If she is a narcissist, trying to figure out why she would do anything may prove futile. Possibilities: She did it because she is a train wreck you can't save. She did it because life is always about her and she will manipulate others to get her point across/voice heard. She did it because she was not capable of loving you as you deserved to be loved.
You may get sick of feeling like this, and for your sake I hope it's sooner than later, but when you do....and whatever you find out....it will all come down to your choice. Your life is utimately your choice. You will move through this. It can be done. At some point you will be able to focus on what you want to feel, instead of what you don't. That was a turning point for me, but I had to get through a lot of stuff first (oh, and then I have to still get through it again and again, but now I know I can).
Learn and then let it go....it can be done.
I still think you are a nice guy.
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Just another simple thought. You can always hang up the phone/walk away.
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hello Brian, like Bunny, I am sad to hear about your friend.
Are you also a friend to his family? I hope so. Maybe they need his friends to help them now?
Tragic things happen to people for no reason, it is sad. Take care, portia
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I broke the rule and tried to contact her. She wont respond. I guess what I dont understand is why she wanted me so bad in the first place. Why make our relationship so story book and then dump on it as soon as you get a promotion. I supported her fully and all I get from the experience is that I will divorse her because she is on call two weeks a year and I wont go to pharmecutical parties because I wont understand and be bored. How can a sales party be more important than being home with people you care about and care about you. I am regular guy with dreams of owning my own company. It started out slow, but I have a good job that pays the bills and she tells me she wants a man who makes at least as much as her. I make more, but how is that a criteria after two years. Her only excuse for getting weird is that she says she is insecure and that she doesnt want me because I am the only guy who let her feel she could let her hair down. She makes me feel ashamed to miss my dad telling me to get over it. I mentioned it one time in two years because her graghic talk of disease was bringing me down. Why cant you tell me any stories about your day with the staff and stories of patients that were amusing once in a while. I miss the fascade, it unbeleivable that person doesnt exist.
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ah Brian. I'm really sad that you stopped the stand up comedy (it was stand up wasn't it?). Were you good?
How's your friend's family, how was the funeral? A tough time for them hey. Portia
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Hey, Brian.
I have a good friend who is currently divorcing her husband. He has been having sex with men for years and years, and then lying to her about it.
She has been devastated, emotionally (they have grown children) and he continues to lie and want her to feel so sorry for him, blah blah bla (I've no of tolerance for this type of man...not the gay thing, but the lying, berating thier partner as a smokescreen and then the "feel sorry for me" thing!)
Anyway, she still struggles with wanting what they "had", even though she knows it was all a lie/"facade". I don't think she is crazy or you are crazy. It is hard to let go. She knows it was a delusion (most of it) but it is what she told herself to believe that is so hard to release.
She has some good friends who are helping her find a better view of herself, as he damaged it pretty extensively. She admitted to me that she wasn't sure she could ever find anything better. She is coming to see that this kind of thinking is not her true self talking...instead it is the remnants of abusive brainwashing.
Once again, Brian. You are a good person. Accept and work with that as your bottom line. Find out what you want....not just what you don't (it may take time) and you will break free of her. She has told you she wants out rather crassly, but there it is. Cut the dead weight off. You don't need it, no one does. Hurt does not equal love....ever.
Attachment equals suffering. Mull that over and see if it isn't true.
It's ok to focus on yourself, it doesn't make you selfish (like her)... but your life needs to be about YOU. My friend constantly talks about HIM, wanting him to hurt, wanting him to change, have remorse, whatever. When she starts to focus on herself, that is when the light goes on, and she sees happiness as possible. Try it. Best to you.
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Brain,
Very sorry to hear of your friend's untimely death. Tough as it must be for you, I can only imagine how his wife and kids are doing. Here is an opportunity for you to turn a negative into a positive and help yourself at the same time. When you get caught up in obsessing about your ex-N, why not send the family a card, give the wife a call, see if the kids need anything? Having experienced the untimely death of my 25-year-old brother 7 years ago, I cannot tell you how much expressions of care and concern mean at a time like this.
Best,
bludie
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Ooops - I meant Brian, not brain. Sorry! :oops:
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ROTFLOL!
Hmmm~ I can see where such Freudian slip might fit though.
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Here is an opportunity for you to turn a negative into a positive and help yourself at the same time. When you get caught up in obsessing about your ex-N, why not send the family a card, give the wife a call, see if the kids need anything? Having experienced the untimely death of my 25-year-old brother 7 years ago, I cannot tell you how much expressions of care and concern mean at a time like this.
Very wise words indeed. It is akin to turning sorrow into compassion.
Were you a stand-up comic? How awesome! Would love to hear more about it if you ever want to share. Don't let these N's bring down your self-esteem. As someone suggested, put down the phone or walk away if need be.
Take care.
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Brain,
Very sorry to hear of your friend's untimely death. Tough as it must be for you, I can only imagine how his wife and kids are doing. Here is an opportunity for you to turn a negative into a positive and help yourself at the same time. When you get caught up in obsessing about your ex-N, why not send the family a card, give the wife a call, see if the kids need anything? Having experienced the untimely death of my 25-year-old brother 7 years ago, I cannot tell you how much expressions of care and concern mean at a time like this.
Best,
bludie
A girl at work is doing everything in her power to marry and have children with her 'gay' boyfriend. She won't acknowledge this to herself although she knows!!!!!
I think Brian is in the same position in that he has 'idealised' his ex and created her into a fantasy woman. On one level, he also knows she is a complete bitch and undeserving of his kindness.
To Brian: I also think you have MAJOR unresolved issues around your father's sad and untimely death. I really think you should get some help with this?
Good luck
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ROTFLOL!
Hmmm~ I can see where such Freudian slip might fit though.
Childish and unappreciated. Please disregard this, Brian.
Getting back to your situation Brian,
Thank you for elaborating a little more around the circumstances of your father's death. It still sounds like very much of an open wound. You had mentioned a while back you were looking into therapy. I hope that is the case. Your sense of loss over your ex-GF and Dad seems all-encompassing and stands in the way of true happiness. Just think of what stand-up comedy you'll be capable of if you clear some of this emotional wreckage. I am continuing to wish you the best.
bludie
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Hi Brian,
A few thoughts in connection with your situation. I have also been dealing with a relationship break-up, but mine happened over a year ago.
Firstly, I agree with Bludie and the others who suggested that you show your concern to your bereaved friend's family in practical ways, and that this will help you as well. Shortly after my break-up, I forced myself to express interest and show kindness to my work colleagues, neighbours, etc. Because they are genuine people, they showed warmth to me in return and helped my self-esteem.In fact they made me feel as if I was a functioning member of society, at a time when deep inside, I felt pretty damaged and struggling to cope.
Secondly, was it because of the shock of your friend's death that you tried to contact your ex this week? In the early days I particularly missed my ex when something bad happened in my life, and thought that I could not cope with these emotional challenges without him. The trick is to get yourself through one or two of these challenges without the ex,either on your own or by looking to other friends for support. Then the next time life throws you a tough time, you will know that, amazingly, you can cope without the ex's 'assistance.'
Finally, please know that you will not always feel as bad as you do now. When I was at the three-month mark, I was doing the same as you are now, obsessing about the most hurtful things the ex had said or done...it was like constantly plunging a knife into myself. Suddenly, I'm not interested in doing that anymore,so I know that recovery is taking place.Yes, I still have confusion, which the great people here on this site are helping me work through, but I know now that one day I will be free of my ex's power completely. You will too Brian.Look on each of these difficult days as taking you forward, although it doesn't feel like it yet. And if seeing a therapist might help you, what have you got to lose in trying it out?
Sincerely,
Lara.
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thanks everyone for your thoughts. I feel this way with my dad and my ex because her conversations opened the wounds. It wasnt her fault, she is just so into the elderly and their diseases that it started to open the wounds. I never was insulting about her job choice, I just needed her to understand that my situation is different than normal and that talking about death in detail can be disturbing to me because I know what it is like to lose someone. She has never seen a person die so she didnt understand. Instead of being understanding, she was demeaning me as a weak person. She makes me feel ashamed to feel loss. I never leaned on anyone about my dad. She said she loved me, so I leaned because it hurt. I just dont understand why its ok for people to have emotions and I am not allowed. I dont understand how a man a woman stay together and I dont have that ability to share in a relationship. In the end, she was so cruel with her words. Its amazing but she has had her house painted to look exactly like my condo, and when she saw what I did she said you know you have alittle of your dad in you meaning about being gay. I am not gay, but it was a low blow to make such a comment. I am not happy my dad was gay, but there is nothing I can do. I just wanted her to be resectful of me like I was of her. the only thing she said was that the man she marries will know that her job comes first and she will not come home with the intention of being a woman in the relationship. I dont know what that means. I want to be a couple with a man a woman and share the strengths each has to offer. She makes me feel ashamed to be a weak man for having emotions for the loss of my dad and knowing that my brother is homeless. Its a struggle trying to be normal with a good job and a house knowing that my family has problems and I feel the guilt of hopelessness with them. I didnt ask for this family. Thats why I seeked her out. I want my own family where values are important and love is strong. She offered the love for the first year and then just pulled it away. I was the same man, she just kept "changing" right in front of my eyes. I want the woman I met back. She is the one I dream of and "idealize" She says this is my fault for insecurities and that she wants a man who will talk in detail about her patient load at night. I thought we could talk in detail about our lives and what we could do to enrich our lives and support each other. I just want to hold her and have her hold me again. I really miss that. She could care less. She would rather go to a pharmeusical party to act like we are high society. I just know that if she was in another profession, this wouldnt have happened because talking about death all the time wouldnt have been the subject. thanks again. I retired from comedy because I dont want to look like a cartoon character to a woman and I dont want a joke to ruin a relationship. Who knew joking around about fantasies would have made a girl buy me porn on christmas and flip out about other women everytime they came on television. I dont understand she changed on me in such a dramatic fashion. Everyone tells me that a beautiful woman who is 37 and never engaged or married is strange but I feel like I missed out on the opportunity to have the woman of my dreams because I said a stupid joke. I hate myself inside for saying it. I just thought she knew me enough to know I was kidding. I really loved her. I still do love her. I know she is a bitch for doing what she did, but I feel like I failed her. I wish I felt like she failed me.
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Brian
You really should print off your posts and re-read them. You have a great deal of enlightenment about your situation but you are still persevering with your 'idealisation' of your ex. You will not move on until you realise that you did nothing wrong, it's OK to have a gay dad, it's beyond sad if he died of AIDS and she was not there for you.
I'm sorry your brother is homeless too, I have an alcoholic sister who has caused me such personal worry and sadness that I don't know how to deal with her. I feel her 'guilt' every day but know I'm not in a position to help her.
I only came to this 'place' with years of therapy and realising that none of it was my fault, that I was a valuable person and that we can't 'rescue' people no matter how much we would like to.
Wishing you well
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(((((Brian)))))),
I feel moved b/c I see your numerous posts as a reflection of your internal fights to let go your pain coming from the behavior of an Nwoman who happened to be in a relationship w/ you during one year.
We basically have responded to you : "detach, move on, stop focusing on her and rather focus on your own self, she is an N, you cannot do anything about that". You have read/learnt about N (and I am sure you have understood the dynamics of N behavior). Here are a few things that may help you validate the fact that she is an abuser and an N:
1. The facts that logically demonstrate she is an N
It took a lot of time for me to accept that people close to me were N, and I understand that it may take time for you. However since your last post (on a previous thread from you) I think I may able to demonstrate to you that, accordng to her actions/words, SHE DISPLAYS STRONG N TRAITS:
1. She did not show any compassion/empathy towards a dying person
2. The dying process was long, and difficult b/c of the physical pain. Still she did not show empathy.
3. This dying person happened to be one of the closest person to you, i.e. your father. Still she did not show any empathy.
4. She was your gf at the time. Still, no feelings from her. She did not show feelings for you as any healthy gf would.
5. She tried to make you feel worst, by implying being gay was not a good thing. (according to your previous thread, she said sthg like "maybe you are a bit like your father").
6. She tried to define you (as abusers do) according to HER view, as s.o "a bit gay", (implied : therefore a bit bad)
7. She showed sadistic tendencies: at the time of your highest vulnerability, she tried to put you even more down, i.e giving you even more pain.
8. Finally, as a result of this, she tried to challenge your sense of your own sexual identity (impliying you were 'a bit homosexual'), i.e she challenged you own IDENTITY.
How do I call this behavior? Attempt of psychic murder.
How do I call the author of such a behavior? An N, maybe a future psychopath.
No wonder you felt shattered and ashamed, anybody would have in your situation. No wonder you feel angry. You have the right so.
2. How to detach
You need to let it go, and if you do not do this, know that you are inflicting your own suffering upon yourself, of your own free will. The good news is that you can stop anytime you want to!
I know, easier said than done, but here are a few hints that may help:
-depersonalize the situation (even if artificial at the beginning): do not talk about her as “your xgf” or as “her”, but as "a Woman who Displays Strong and Malignant N Behavior" (you can use WDSMNB acronym for example).
And more important, focus on the behavior rather than on the person.
-talk/think the least possible about her (when you feel a thought about her that is coming up, try to say to yourself "no I will not tyhink about this person").
With the internet / google:
-learn about emotional abuse (if you need books to read I can provide you w/ a few good titles). This will help you overcome your fear of having such a horrible thing happening again.
-learn about letting go techniques (like 12 steps, meditation/zen/yoga stuff..).
-learn about the Stockholm syndrome thing (why victims miss their abusers)
3. Focus your energy about the real issue
Do you think if you let go of this that the pain of what happened with your father will replace it and it will be time to face that, so hanging on to this could in a way be a protective thing staving off having to deal with the feelings related to your dad?
This is, imo, the CORE ISSUE.
I was wondering, if you could try to start expressing your feelings about your father in general throughout your life, and your relationships w/ your mother/siblings/family.
That could be a good start, and much more helpful than tlaking about the WDSMNB :wink:
Again, Brian, b/c of the tenacity you showed in your postings, I am sure that you will start moving on at some point in time.
But, if I may say, please try not to let this tenacity get focused on the wrong person...
I would be really interested in your opinion about each of these 3 points. I hope I did not sound too directive nor impersonal :wink: (I did not talk about my own stuff here b/c the post would have been way too long..), but I am trying to appeal to your logic and to help you (as the other posters) see your situation from a different angle...
Take good care of yourself and I send you lots of hugs again..
-RL
PS
-Maybe you could explore more the issue of sexual identity, and the identifying role of a Father for a Son.
Every human being has a feminine part and a masculine part.
-It is not b/c you had feelings about the death of your father that you are "weak" or "gay"!! You have them b/c you are a healthy human being!!!
-Maybe WDSMNB had a problem with her own sexual identity, and she was 'reminded' of it by the fact that your father was gay.
She would not recognize her own feminine part and project her angry feelings onto you and your father. Just a thought...
(Even if it were the case, that is IN NO WAY any excuse for her behavior).
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((((BRIAN))))
I lost my Dad on 1/17/05 just 3 weeks ago. I'm still reeling from the pain and I'm sure my heart will ache for many years and probably forever. I'm a 40 year-old woman, not a child, but losing a parent is devestating. Losing a parent to a devestating illness without the support of the woman you love is incomprehensible. I hope you have or find a therapist who can help you detach from this woman emotionally and find wholeness. I agree that you still have some grieving to do over your dear Dad and I hope you can find the tears to do it. My heart goes out to you...
Cindi
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thanks for your words. I am angry inside because my dad took so much from me when he was dying. I had to quit my job to run his business, I couldnt have a relationship because he took all my time, he told me stories of committing suicide if he went blind, finding out after all the years of pain of not having a relationship with him because he was gay. My mom looking me in the face and lying to me about why he was so distant. I went to therapy for 3 years to get over it. I was over it. I meet a woman who is my age not married no kids professional and really into me. We had so much in common. Everything except the medical career. I asked her if that was a problem. She said doctors were boring because all they talk about is medicine. I only told her about my dad and I didnt go into detail because I told her it was my past because she was talking about a person who had his legs cut off and he was going to die a slow death. I let her know that sometimes these stories are too graphic for me and brings up memories of me in the hospital with my dad. A tear fell from eye. I told her I could talk about her day, but she needed to tone down the stories so that it was in english. I never dreamed she would think I dont care about her day. I am angry with my dad for those memories in my head because I could still be with my ex if I just listened to her stories and not made her feel like she couldnt talk. Then all the issues started happening with the porn on Christmas, and insecurities about women, and now if you read the conversation she is telling me it was all my fault and that she deserves 80% of my time to nurture her and I should accept 20% of her time. I am hurting inside because the cloud of my dad will always be there and I really wanted to experience the good in life again with somebody special. Instead, she condemned me like he did. I am not good enough because I make them feel bad about themselves because I cant solve their problems. I am not a therapist. I am a man who wants what everybody else wants-to love and be loved. She ran off and is being loved, and why because I could not talk like a doctor. She used me just like my dad
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Hi Brian,
I am glad that you answered on this thread... :wink:
Here is a question about things I did not get (sorry if I misunderstood some of your words, pls correct me if I am wrong):
My mom looking me in the face and lying to me about why he was so distant.
Do you mean that she knew he had AIDS and she lied to you about it? Or that she knew he was gay and she lied to you about it?
How did she react towards him when she knew (and after) he had AIDS?
Here a few thoughts...
I couldnt have a relationship because he took all my time
he told me stories of committing suicide if he went blind
all the years of pain of not having a relationship with him because he was gay
It seems imo that you gave to your Dad all your time/energy b/c of the guilt you felt about not having a relationship w/ him after you discoverd he was gay. You tried to make up for it.
But the feeling you now have is just that you have been used by him through some emotional blackmail (guilt trip, threats of suicide..).
I went to therapy for 3 years to get over it. I was over it.
You may have gotten over the guilt about having rejected him when learning he was gay.
But now that you cannot not feel this guilt anymore, (since what you dreaded happened and since you had done your best to help him), you feel anger and resentement about him/you for having been 'used' by him, i.e. having felt so deeply guilty for an 'imaginary crime'. I think you just realize that the whole thing was never your fault and you spent all these years feeling responsible and sacrificing your life for it. And you are asking yourself : for what?
I can relate (in a less difficult context) to these feelings of anger/resentment about one's father. I too felt overresponsible (since I was told I was responsible) about the bad things that happened to my father. I had rejected him during my teens and then have spent these past ten years trying to make up for it (for what? for everything that went wrong in his life). I rarely received much in return from him, except a bit of comfort when he learnt I had a severe depression.
Now I feel also a huge anger / resentment against him, hard to not let it turn into self-hatred or self-destruction. I understood that he was not so different from my N mother and that both used me to throw/project their bad feelings or whatever onto me. I understood I WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR 'IT'. A ll they did were guilt-tripping me..
But I do not want to spend the rest of my life having self-pity either. Most of my teens have been consumed by (self-)anger and trying to emotionnally survive. Most of my twenties have been consumed by guilt and trying to 'make up' and accept whatever abusive behavior (from them and also anybody else since I thought I deserved any abuse). So, of course, I now feel a huge anger/resentment : what right did they have to f*ck up my life????
But you know what? I will turn 30 next month, and I am not gonna let myself consumed either by anger nor guilt anymore. For a change. Their problems are their problems. Period.
As far as you are concerned , you can acknowledge that you have felt :
-angry that your father was gay
-guilty that you rejected him
-guilty that he was sick (and you in good health)
-angry that you felt guilty.
Then you may feel in the future guilty again for having felt angry (that you had felt guilty) at the time of his death...And so on...
I think at one point it's important to break this cycle of self-abuse (i.e this anger/guilt cycle).
At least this is what I am trying to do as far as my relationship w/ my father is concerned... As they say, it's all about 'the right distance' (whether the person is alive or not, it is the same process) : not too close (guilt), not too far (anger/rejection).
Maybe this is what they call detach or letting go?? :roll:
Take care
-RL
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I never resented my dad for being gay. I resent him from stealing my life when I needed me to grow. My friends all have marriages, kids, homes, and family. I am 36, I have a condo, a job, no kids, no family, and no wife. I really wanted her to be with me. I thought we were going to get married someday, but she rejected me. She told me she didnt want kids because she is selfish with her time. I miss the good times we shared. knowing that they really didnt mean anything really hurts. She just never really cared. I didnt tell her about my dad to be judged or to not talk about her day. I told her because she opened an old wound, and I wanted her to understand that sometimes I cant talk about people dying in detail. She doesnt want me because she said it was one sided. Because she wants me to80% of my time over her giving me 20%. Seeing a grown woman freak out about a television show is disturbing. Having her buying me porn on Xmas morning is so harsh. Xmas is a time to show how much you love somebody. How much you care about them. I bought her a palm pilot for her job. She bought me porn. I cant get her behaviour out of her mind. The problem is she is with somebody new already and I wonder why he gets her and doesnt have to go thru what I did. I wonder why he doesnt get porn or outrageous behavior. I give up. I dont understand why this happens.
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You can agree with me when I say that she was insensitive to your feelings...she sounds like a spoiled brat who didn't appreciate your love. Don't give up. There are people out there who will love and appreciate you for who you are. I still believe that she didn't deserve you, didn't understand you, and is a very shallow and selfish person to treat you the way she did. I say "did", because it's over. Now you have to move on with your life. Forget her. Sure things were good in the beginning...but aren't they always? Then the truth of their personalities begins to show itself to you. You must see this for how it WAS. It is no longer. You have to sever the ties emotionally to this woman, she was not the right one for you. Give yourself time to heal and learn how to love yourself. I know you can do it. If I did it, I know that anyone can do it.
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Brian,
You keep referring to the one conversation you had with your ex that created the end of your relationship. No good, healthy, lasting relationship breaks up over one or 20 conversations, disagreements or even knock-down, drag-outs. Over the course of a marriage, you would have had to sustain many disagreements. Your relationship would not have been capable of that. You did not have the formula for success. You desperately need to find a good therapist to help you through the losses you have recently had to endure. I just lost my mother in early January, so I totally understand how difficult it is to add the loss of a parent to the loss of the person you thought you would spend the rest of your life with.
There is damage inside of you that needs healing. It must be healed before you can ever move forward with a loving relationship. You are still young and have plenty of years to build a family. This woman did not want children. 15 years from now you would have so deeply regretted that you did not have the children you wanted and you were potentially facing a life alone with this selfish bitch. You have so many reasons to be grateful that you are not saddled with this woman who could never have loved you the way you deserve to be loved. But first you must learn to love yourself. It is a hard lesson to learn, but oh, so necessary.
Brigid
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thanks, your words are very kind. The reason I dont love me right now is because I have such a hard time understanding why people come to me and say they love me and then turn on me. I just want what everybody wants-I hate that she ran off to another man and seems to have found happiness. I know she has problems, but it pisses me off to know that this guy doesnt have to feel the pain she gave me. She freaked on me because of who I am and the misunderstandings from her head. All she cares about is her career, and the doctor gets her because he went to medical school. thats what impresses her. she even told me that she wants a man who makes at least as much money as her. I make more now, but it is possible that she may make more someday. I dont understand the competition. I loved her for what she presented. She used me until she found somebody better. She even denies what she said. I feel bad knowing that she didnt even care about the things I took the time to do for her. It wasnt important. It was a waste of time. Just once I would love it if a woman could look at me and see that I am sincere. I know I have an outgoing personality with comedy and stuff, but that doesnt mean I am out looking. I just wanted her to be proud of my abilities.
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I have such a hard time understanding why people come to me and say they love me and then turn on me.
Because you are getting involved with emotionally unhealthy people.When you do that you can only expect the Wild West.
Choose a different caliber of people and I promise you that won't happen to you anymore.
The "Catch"-- You have to become a little different inside first off.
Do you understand better now? Do you understand these ideas? What do you think of them?
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The reason I dont love me right now is because I have such a hard time understanding why people come to me and say they love me and then turn on me.
Just to echo other posters, this is something that is really common-- this seduction and seeming love followed by abandonment. People who are emotionally stunted do it because they get ego gratification out of it and/or they aren't capable of real intimacy. Some real jerks do it just because it's fun. It's so common that it's really easy to find! I have found it a lot... (sigh). The secret isn't figuring out why someone does it (tons of people do it) but why you can't tell they are going to do it and run away. There are these people (lucky people!) who can spot this sort of thing a mile away and never let those folks into their life.
My goal is to become one of those lucky people. I'm wishing it for you, too-- you really do seem like a sensitive, articulate person who deserves better.
PS Not loving yourself because of what she (or anybody else, but especially some not so nice person) thinks of you/does to you? Why does she get to choose if you are lovable? I don't think she even gets a vote.
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Bkkabri, you keep talking about why this Indian doctor gets to have her now while you don't. It's pretty clear that he hasn't been with her long. What makes you think this poor schmuck isn't going to end up just like you in a matter of months or a couple of years? Quit trying to figure out anything about this relationship. You're wasting your time. You have a victim mentality that invites predators like your Ex. It's a weakness that will continue to encourage others to prey upon you like this until you decide you're not going to be used up like this anymore. And the only way you can start is to get out of the quicksand you're in right now. It's clear that this woman isn't worth anyone's time, so why are you giving your precious time to her when she isn't even there to share it with? You've been asking the same questions about this woman since before Christmas. You're not going to figure her out and why would you want to? I'd be afraid of what the hell you'd find. Move on to bigger and better things...namely yourself.
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You have a victim mentality that invites predators like your Ex. It's a weakness that will continue to encourage others to prey upon you like this until you decide you're not going to be used up like this anymore.
Because you are getting involved with emotionally unhealthy people.When you do that you can only expect the Wild West.
Choose a different caliber of people and I promise you that won't happen to you anymore.
The "Catch"-- You have to become a little different inside first off.
Read these 10 times-Brian. Literally-no joke. It's really the truth and the answer to what you keep asking. There it is-- the answers.
What are you going to do with them-now that you have them?
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Hi Brian, wow, just look at all these replies you're getting.
How do you feel about the people here?
People who take the time to reply and try to help you?
Are we stupid for replying so much? Or are we okay for replying? What if we just stopped replying. What if the board disappeared for good. Would it matter to you? Would you care?
How did your dad steal your life? How did he try to make you gay (I think you said this somewhere)?
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Hi Brian,
You really have gotten alot of great replies. I've been reading your posts for several months and I feel bad for you. I wish you could find some relief from the torment you feel over this situation.
I can totally relate to some of what you are going through. I've been in the situation where I felt so strongly about a man only to be replaced so easily by him. I obsessed endlessly about what I could have done to make him love me more. I obsessed that I was not pretty enough, not exciting enough, etc. At that time, I didn't have very supportive people in my life. My family and friends would often agree that, indeed, these were the reasons this man could not love me. My self esteem was in the dumper.
Intellectually, I believed that this could not be right. I knew that I had chosen poorly with this man. I found a therapist. I thought he hated me at first. I felt he was looking down on me. That was 11 years ago. Turns out he has helped me more than I can ever say. I have been in therapy with him on and off since then. I learned that he wasn't looking down on me, I just felt that everyone was looking down on me. Now, I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm a good person with issues to overcome.
At that time, I felt like you do. I was devastated thinking that my chance to get married and have children was lost. Through therapy, I started to feel better about myself and my future. I married a wonderful man 7 years ago and we have 2 children.
Brian, therapy is key. Please help yourself. You are a good person. The things that happened with your parents are not your fault. Be good to yourself, nourish yourself, focus as much as possible on what is good and beautiful.
Peace,
Learning
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Brian,
I am also very sorry about the loss of your friend.
Take Care,
Learning
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I appreciate the post. I need to vent. What I wnt is to talk to her more tnan anything to have closure. She ran off with somebody because he can talk about medicine and medical terms better than me. If I had known that was important to her, I would have sat with and talked more about it. the problem is that she said nothing. what she did do is condemn me like I was nothing. everything was a lie, which has been the story of my life. I dont want the woman who she is right now, I want to know what happened and why she suddenly wanted away from us. I want to know why everyone lies to me. I loved her, I had different opions than her, but was never disrespectful. I thought we had conversations. she thinks I was being one sided. I dont want to care again for anyone because they will lie to me and hurt me blaming me for their problems. I feel like I am on an island. She is happy without me, and I am the one left in the cold. She hasnt even taken the time to talk to me about our problems when they could have been managable. All I requested is quality time and all she wanted is to talk about the elderly diseases during dinner. Now I am a nobody to her and why does it hurt so bad, because she told me I was her perfect mate. she made me beleive it and I followed thru like an adult. Now I sound like a ten year old because she could care less. I just want my life back. I want the old routine of coming home and seeing her and being together. I dont know why she thinks I want women on television but it nuts. She has made me feel like a freak for talking about television.
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I want the old routine of coming home and seeing her and being together.
Why do you want this? It's obvious that she doesn't want this anymore. Find someone else to come home to after you've worked on yourself for a while.
This is going to sound really mean, but I have to stress that it's not meant to be. I'm just being honest with you here and sometimes that's what a person needs to jumpstart his life again. Here goes..
Maybe, just maybe she was starting to see how you fixate on something like this and don't stop. This may have sent up red flags to her and latching on to someone else as quickly and easily as she did was her ticket out of the relationship. It's really easy to tell someone when things are going great, how wonderful they are and that they're "the one". But eventually reality sets in and it's not really like that anymore. You weren't wrong, you just were blinded by love and feelings of being in the moment. It's actually exasperating to watch you go 'round and 'round with this same struggle day after day, month after month. If others are picking up on it on this board, she may have been noticing it pretty strongly by just living with you. This may have freaked her out. I had mentioned that you do have a "victim mentality" in a previous post. I can tell you as a female, that if I met you out somewhere or were in a relationship with you and this is what you thought of yourself, I'd be out the door pretty darn quick myself. Generally, people like to be with someone who is emotionally healthy. I think it's what we all look for in a relationship. And when there is even an inkling that something may be astray...a person will bail pretty quickly.
Bkkabri, you fixate and you obsess, and you yearn, and you you keep going backwards instead of forwards. You're wondering what you can do to make people happy or like you or love you or not lie to you. Right now. Who cares about them. Start working on yourself and quit being everyone's lackey. No one is going to be interested in treating you well unless you start treating yourself well. Confidence will be the first thing they notice.
I am writing this with concern for you, not animosity. I am a female, I have been dumped before, I have been in a successful marriage for 10 years. I know what emotional pain is like and I know what it's like to be a slave to a memory. Get over it. Life is too damn short and all the time you're wasting on this broad, you could be spending with someone who actually gives a crap about you.
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I want to know why everyone lies to me.
Good grief bkkabri-- people here have suggested reasons why. You just don't hear them. Did you read any replies on that???
I want to know what happened and why she suddenly wanted away from us.
She probably told you a dozen or more times- what you keep asking about her-too.
Are we stupid for replying so much?
You have a great point there-Portia.I asked myself the same thing.We have all said the same things umpteen times over, only to have the same questions get re-asked.
Maybe Brian just needs a place to vent. That's fine with me. On the other hand, personally-I don't think I can reply anymore. After all- what is there left to be said that hasn't been said so many dif. ways by so many dif. people?
Others can only do so much. It is only us that can decide to open our eyes and help ourselves.
I do really really wish you well though- Brian.
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If it feels like they are abandoning you -- they aren't.
If it feels like they couldn't understand you -- they do.
If it feels like they are all ganging up on you -- they might be...if they are...why?
Because they've all been there, and they all care, and can all see the pitfalls you literally jump into with eyes wide shut.
I think they are all telling you over and over again that it's got to start with you, not her. That's in the past already. Now you have a perfect opportunity to see how things went wrong and do what you have to to change it so you don't repeat the same destructive pattern.
I know I've been there. Dumped all over myself. Couldn't figure it out...where did I go wrong???? The only difference right now between you and me is I have taken that first step out of the quagmire...I am beginning to learn how to love and respect myself. After all...how could I be any good for anyone else if I didn't love myself and view myself as worthy? I HAD to take that leap of faith in myself. I know it's hard, but if I can do it, you can too.
Don't give up, open your eyes, you are in the right place and people understand you. They, we, are trying to help you.
Guess what? reading and rationalizing is one thing. Action is another. Listen to the negative tapes you are running in your brain over and over. When you catch them playing that old song and dance, stop yourself and consciously, with conscious determination, change the message in those tapes.
For instance: "I am just a useless piece of nothing and nobody will ever love me or want me."
Change that tape message to: "I am worthy, worthwhile, I am somebody special, deserving and worthy of love."
If you practice this enough, before you know it you begin changing that tape effortlessly and it moves through your conscious mind into your unconscious mind and becomes a fixed message in the reels of your mind.
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I sat up all night reading post and I know deep inside I couldnt do anything. I keep wanting to beleive that this person isnt capable of doing what she did or said. I keep wishing it didnt happen, I keep wishing for the woman I met and gave me her heart. When I look back, I realize that I wasnt perfect, but her reactions to statements I made were beyond the realm of normal. I wish I didnt talk about VH1, but I told the story to alot of people and they laugh. I wish I didnt try to spice up our relationship, but the truth is I never had these issues with a woman before. I am a spontaneous person who wants romance and fun. She made me feel bad for that. I wish she accepted my advances, but she didnt. I wish she didnt say those cruel and heartless things, but she did. I read the post, I loved her, but there is no way that this could work knowing she has the ability to freak out everytime I open my mouth. I have to realize that compimenting a woman with the words nice and great should have been accepted. I offered her intamcy, she offered me nothing. I wish I never met her, because I understand that she has problems. I just wish that she wasnt that way, but she was. I talked to my neighbor who used to be her friend. She told me that my told her that she ended the relationship after four years for nothing. She also told me that my ex told her that she did not under any circumstances want me to hang out with people she knew because she didnt want me to become their friends. Problem is, my ex never had any friends. I know she is emotionally screwed, but what a waste. I really loved the fascade, but reading the post and her conversations make me realize that she is self absorbed and unrealistic. She will never give me that family I desire. She doesnt want kids because she said she is too selfish with her time.
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Hi, Brian--
At some level at this point you must be feeling your mind has carried you away. Even your posts have that quality to them-- a big block of anxiety as you go over and over everything.
A lot suggestions have been made to you, very articulately, and they are AWESOME (what a great board this is) and helpful.
So, in the spirit of help, I'd like to make another suggestion. Could you go to someone in the medical profession (just your regular doctor is fine-- gp or whatever) and ask them why your mind is spinning like this and what there might be to do about it? I think that your mind is keeping you from yourself-- something in all of this has been so sad and hurtful to you that your seratonin levels are wacky. It's like spraining a muscle, or something, only this one stays sprained until it gets fixed.
Just for a month or two, it may make sense to get yourself back on track, give your mind the chance to get back in balance.
I just mention this because you aren't sleeping, you can't seem to think about anything else, and you are running around on a mobius strip of anxiety. What heppens if you reset your mind so that it can jump off of all of this for a bit? You might really surprise yourself when you realize how much of this is just caused by an inbalance in your brain brought on by stress (if it is-- I can't know, of course, it's just a guess).
If you gave yourself this opportunity, it might be a lifesaver for you. It has been for countless others.
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i agree with vunil 1000%
question is--is the unbalanced thinking of bkkabri able to hear that message about the unbalanced thinking? i hope so but i do have my doubts and guesses that the message will go unanswered and unconsidered.really very excellent observation and advice though.
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Bkkabri, Wishing isn't going to solve your problems. You can't "wish" something one way or another. You've fixated on this woman to the point of madness. Do you think she's really worth it?
Do you have any hobbies or interests that can fill up your time instead of this woman? It's obvious she wasn't going to fulfill any of your needs, do you have something else that can even temporarily take that place?