Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: cal12 on February 05, 2005, 06:32:17 PM
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My father is deceased and Nmother too toxic to be around. I'm married with a wonderfully supportive spouse...but have an existential lonliness that I cannot explain.. after growing up in such an emotionally unhealthy family, I wonder is anyone else feeling this? I am afraid to express this lonliness to anyone...for fear of being "exposed" and vulnerable and ultimately evaluated. My Nmother always said my feelings were "being too sensitive". My spouse understands, but did not have the same Nparent experience. We spend all time, (holidays, etc.) with his family because mine is so unhealthy. I feel very alone... it feels as though I don't belong anywhere.... no "tribe" to call my own. Does anyone else feel this? Does it get easier? More difficult? Would welcome information in how others may cope.
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cal12,
I am really resonating with the longing in your post. You are not alone, there are many caring and supportive people on this board. I realize that doesn't always help to feel better from the "aloneness" feeling. I have felt cutoff from people and lonely for a long time, and recently began to take chances by posting here. I feel clumsy at it a lot of times, but I'm learning. Keep posting and I believe you will find there really are other people out there who feel the same way you do.
I coped with feeling alone in a lot of unhealthy ways. I wouldn't recommend them based on my experience. Now, I try to welcome the feeling in (hard) and truly feel it (hard) and be curious about what it means about me (easier), where it came from (hard), and what I need to change in my life to meet that need or heal that wound (hard). Once I've gone "through" the problem, it is no longer a problem for me. Have you ever gone to therapy? A good therapist can help you to find and address the source of all these feelings that keep coming up.
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Here's a really "out there" theory for you that may be way off track:
If you are extremely sensitive, perhaps even clairsentient, you may not only be feeling your feelings, but other people's feelings as well. In my opinion, it happens all the time. There is a great deal of pain and loneliness on this planet..and certainly not always admitted to and dealt with by it's "owners" (N's are a glaring example).
As a child I was so sensitive, I would have physical pain in the palms of my hands everytime I felt hurt (which was a lot)..luckily, I had a warm, loving family to trust. I am still extremely sensitive and used to be told to "get a thicker skin", especially by my ex N who loved to "tease" me into crying and then call me a baby. (EX!).
I realize now that many times I just pick up on other people's pain and sometimes they just plain GIVE it to me. I know now how to take care of myself, how to clear any energy out of my body that is not mine. Being able to do this has changed my life. Life is challenging enough for sensitive souls, just with our own stuff, never mind the sponge like way we pick up on energy around us. It is possible to stay sensitive and empathetic (wonderful qualities) without carrying around the pain all the time.
You are fortunate to have a caring, understanding husband. Could you let his family be yours? I know it's not the same, but if you are better able to take care of yourself around them than with your own family, focus on how that is a plus. Bless you.
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cal12, I agree with mum that you seem very sensitive. I feel that way myself, sorry I neglected to put that in my previous post. I recently found out about Highly Sensitive Person. It makes sense to me that some people respond more strongly to certain stimuli than others. I feel very tuned into peoples moods, now that I am not suppressing my awareness of everything to defend myself. Here are a couple of links you might want to check out. I bought the book, but haven't read it yet, so I can't really go into much more detail right now.
http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=319094
http://www.hsperson.com/
I realize now that many times I just pick up on other people's pain and sometimes they just plain GIVE it to me. I know now how to take care of myself, how to clear any energy out of my body that is not mine. Being able to do this has changed my life. Life is challenging enough for sensitive souls, just with our own stuff, never mind the sponge like way we pick up on energy around us. It is possible to stay sensitive and empathetic (wonderful qualities) without carrying around the pain all the time.
mum, do tell! I am very interested in hearing how you cleanse that negative energy out. I basically just wait and let it drain out slowly.
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longtire: It may help you to know, I am not very "granola", I shave my armpits and although I'm a vegetarian, I also eat junk food. I am fairly pedestrian, if a bit left wing....just letting you know that I'm pretty down to earth. I just have learned a few things that make sense to me.
I have a wonderful mentor in this, but I don't think it's a big mystery. It helped me to develop an understanding of the concept of energy chakras. (I am in kindergarten here, but hey, isn't kindergarten fun????) Look up chakras on the web, perhaps. Breathe magazine had a great, simple graphic chart, I think last month (lent it out, so I'm not sure). I have found a lot of references to this in many books, but I would have a hard time sending you to one book. Maybe finding "energy healing" on the web...but frankly, I have yet to find stuff there that doesn't sound like snakeoil sales. I have been studying Buddhist philosophy, and a lot of that applies, but energy healing is probably the best description. There was a film a while back that has some fascinating theories expressed along these lines, although I was just given a review that completely tore it apart....whatever: it's called "what the bleep do we know". A lot of that dovetails with what I have learned and it's just plain interesting. Don't think it's on video yet.
I think if I tried to explain it to you I would cannibalize it, so it's probably best for you to look for yourself. And in my opinion, the way energy works, it will come to you if you intend for it to.
I did a lot of work to get me to a point where I was able to accept my part in creating my life...that's an understanding I think someone probably needs to have at the base of all of this. It's all about personal choice and power and possibility. My core values and beliefs needed to be addressed first before I could see anything else about my life.
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Hi Cal12. These feelings of loneliness must bge natural, especially for us "sensitives". When we love, we love deep. When we lose someone in our family, we have great spiritual pain. I am still learning abgout this myself. Why do we feel so much pain from separating from a loved one, that only hurt and hurt us before? Why do we stay in the relationship, why do we forgive when they don't even know or care that they need forgiving, and we deserve to be able to have them say, "I know I was like this", and "I did this to you", where they acknowledge the pain they have put you through and honestly try and want desparately for you to forgive them?
I know very well the pain of losing a member of your family to narcissism, selfishness and greed. A general disregard for how deeply your heart has been wounded by them. All I know is, for some reason I have always kept forgiving them, inside, and it is a painful process, because, I really do love them, even though they hurt me so badly. SO BADLY.
How is it that I can keep repeating this dance of forgiveness....and it wears me down more and more everytime I give into them and want them back in my life...while dreading the very thought that they will likely hurt me again. So why do I keep on going back to them, the ones who hurt me? Because sometimes the loneliness has been too great...too high a price to pay...too much loss to cope with. I understand that they were deprived and abused when they were growing up too....and I am always holding out hope that they will one day change and we could have a healthy and happy relationship where I don't have to live in abject fear of them hurting me again...that one day we will all be free of this...that one day we will all somehow come full circle and mend together.
I wish I understood this dilemma better, but I am still learning even though I am in my 40's. I'm STILL trying my best to forgive them. I know how lonely I am without them, yet part of me is stronger and one step closer to being able to separate from them without feeling that devastation.
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Cal12, Naomi:
Attachment equals suffering. It explains everything at it's essence. Shocking yet freeing, but not always easy to wrap my brain around.
Attachment to what could have been, attachment to what might someday be...all attachments to what is not NOW.
Great song lyric, (by Frou Frou): "let go, let go...there is beauty in the breakdown"...
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Dear Cal:
I too have experienced/experiencing the "aloneness" factor of a dysfunctional family. You would like so much to have the same warmth, caring attitude that is exhibited in your husband's family. I know what it means to have that "longing". Someone, somewhere stated what is home? Home is that "soft place where one can land and feel comforted from the world". So true. In my case and yours, there is "no soft place" save only the one we make for ourselves. I have had the invisible, longing experience for about 50 years. It has been only through a lot of soul searching on my part that I realize that letting go of what we long for is the only way. It is a matter of loving yourself, being kind to yourself, not being hard on yourself. I look at my life and say, ok where was I 5 years ago as opposed to right now. I can tell you I have come a long way.
I no longer feel the need to call my family every holiday, to go see them, to call them to see how they are doing. I really do not need their approval. Continually trying to pursue that "soft place" in their heart. It does not exist. Caring, love, all those things we see in other families, if you exam it closely is mutual. It is not a one way street. There is no score keeping. This is what I would like to have.......but I don't. If you have no expectations, then you are no longer disappointed. Fill your life with helping others who really need the help, want the help and love you back. This is where I find the "soft place" to land. Much love, Patz
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I often think that children of N parents are very sensitive individuals. They are almost the opposite i.e. more compassionate and empathic than 'normal' people. I think this is where the loneliness stems from. On some subconscious level, we KNOW what good parenting is all about. I've often thought of it as having a 'cardboard cutout' mother but without any of the nurturing emotions flowing from her. Whereas she is 'physically' there, she is not emotionally available. We know this and mourn it all our lives...
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I think if we have made it that way to sperate from our family of origing and build our very own family, with kids, husband, friends animals, we have found a place where we belong.
Samantha
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Hi,
I think I understand your lonliness. I was an only child of a very difficult woman, probably a Narcissist. My dad died a few years ago. My feelings for my mother were always ambevalent. It was the love/hate thing. It is hard to be away from family. It is even harder to break-away from a dysfunctional family. It takes time and practice.
I finally chose distance from my mother because, being who she is, getting close always meant getting hurt. I am getting older myself and just don't want to experience the pain any longer. I focus on my children and grandchildren.
Good luck to you, take care, Jo
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I have the experience of being "over" sensitive and have found it disruptive to my life. For many years I tried to discern the origins of my sensitivity as it led to, among other results, horrendous experiences of depression. Recently, after reading several books and articles about the brain, I have come to believe that my sensitivity may be a product of my brain function. I find this helpful.
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Cal: I know the loneliness you are talking about, I too had it for many years, but it is starting to disappear now. Part of it has been coming to this board, knowing that I'm not alone in my experiences, knowing that others have had similar (and in some cases practically identical) experiences, and can actually understand me. Another big part in healing the loneliness has being accpting it. I know now that my mother will never love me, I will never get the acceptance from her that I need. This has helped me to finally begin to let go of the pain. I'm not saying this is the way for you, after all we are all different, but I hope I've been able to help, otherwise I'm sure someone else on this board will. Take care!
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The loneliness I got from gowing up in a family where there was no emotional closeness and no belonging (attachment/bonding?) has been driving most of the issues I have. I never had a place to go where I am unconditionally accepted and loved. I don't have a stable "base of operations" that I can go back to to find security. I didn't have a chance to experience or internalize this and keep looking for this in my life. I stayed in a very unhealthy marriage for a long time, and still can't seem to leave. Any "place," even a bad place is better than none at all.
This seems like one of those "childhood experience" kind of things that is not appropriate to look for in other adult relationships. Don't work your issues with your mother out through your spouse. That kind of thing. So how do I deal with this at this point in my life? If it was not important it would have gone away or been replaced by now. How do I go about finding/building this in myself? What have you done to get this for yourself? What have you done to find or build a "place" for yourself.
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This thread means a lot to me, thanks to everyone who has posted.
I also am the only child of a N mother and deceased (also N) father. It's Easter, and I haven't called my mother. I just can't take the criticism at the moment. But I feel so guilty. I have a loving partner, who had a similarly lousy chidlhood and is also not in contact with his parents, but at least they have each other and his sisters. My mother is all alone. And I know that's not my fault or my responsibility, but it sure feels like it at times.
The existential loneliness comes I am sure, as others have said, from that lack of a secure base when we were little. Children need to be loved by their parents to feel safe in the world. We moved around a lot when I was small so there is nowhere that feels like home to me as well as no people who are my family apart from my partner and children. And even there, though I have tried so hard, I know I haven't succeeded in creating the sort of solid base for them that I would have wanted. It's much better than I had, but still ... how was I to know how to do that for them? When my children were little I didn't realise how damaged I was and I damaged them in turn. And so the cycle goes on.
It's four in the morning, so a special hello to any insomniacs out there - and my love to all of you who feel lonely in the world. It helps that you people share that here, thank you all.
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Hi nightsong! :)
The existential loneliness comes I am sure, as others have said, from that lack of a secure base when we were little. Children need to be loved by their parents to feel safe in the world. We moved around a lot when I was small so there is nowhere that feels like home to me as well as no people who are my family apart from my partner and children. And even there, though I have tried so hard, I know I haven't succeeded in creating the sort of solid base for them that I would have wanted. It's much better than I had, but still ... how was I to know how to do that for them? When my children were little I didn't realise how damaged I was and I damaged them in turn. And so the cycle goes on.
I know what you mean. I knew for a long time while my daughter was growing up that I had problems that kept me from being close to her, but I didn't know what to do about it. Now that I'm better, I have apologized to her for allowing my issues to effect her. I've told her that I want to be closer to her, help her, guide her, talk with her, accept responsibility for my actions or lack of them. Most important, I tell her that I love her, that she's extremely important to me, that she matters, that I like being around her and talking with her and getting to know her better. I've also told her that I want her to feel safe enough to be able to come to me and tell me when she's upset, angry, hurt, etc. We are still working on this last one. I know from my own experience that it is never too late to have your parents talk with you and tell you whow loved and important you are to them. :D
BTW, my daughter is 16 now, so she can handle quite a bit of deep, age-appropriate discussion. I can see how I would need to express a lot of things very differently if her brain hadn't started growing up yet.
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Hi everyone,
I don't know if my expreience is helpful to anyone, but I grew up in a fairly happy family, at least I thought it was. I had a good childhood, if not a perfect one.
My loneliness comes from desertion, as an adult, by a family that I thought I could count on. When my brother began the same character assasination on me that he has practiced on other people I never conceived that members of my family would actually believe him or at best just stand aside while he tried to destroy me. It has been a real eye opening experience to see just how much you can count on 'blood' relatives when the fat hits the fire.
I think Samantha had it right. Find husbands, friends, kids, animals to build a new life around. At least they will be with you by choice.
mudpup
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I can relate to most of the posters above - I'm the only child of an N father and enabling mother.
At the age of 17 I left home and at the age of 24 I "divorced" them both. Frankly, it was the only thing that kept me sane.
I'm now 56. I did spend Easter alone but since time spent by myself means time not being hurt I look at it as a positive thing. My children went to the families of their spouses and called me en route. They've always known that I don't mind spending holidays alone and I've never made them feel guilty about it.
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I did spend Easter alone but since time spent by myself means time not being hurt I look at it as a positive thing.
Ain't that the truth! Top_Witch, do you find that you aren't able to 'do' social functions for more than a limited period of time? I will go, when I know and like the people involved, but even then I usually leave after two - three hours at most. No fussing, just a sense that it's time to head home, a round of sincere thanks to hosts and guests, and a quiet departure.
Causes problems at work, when office parties are on the premises and last all the livelong day. I just show up, get a cuppa, have a donut, and go back to work after about five minutes of small talk with whoever there can be relied upon to be courteous for that length of time. [If I want to eat donuts with people, I'll do it in my spare time, with people who like me.]
Stormchild
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Sorry for the delay in responding - busy time at work with the end of quarter.
It was funny that you mention work social functions. Everyone knows that I don't go. Don't attend the annual xmas party, or go out to lunch with co-workers, or meet for a drink after work.
That being said, I have a lot of friendly relationships with my co-workers and as far as I can tell they just think it's a quirk I have (or that I'm secretly a CIA operative in my spare time).
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**Caution: Diatribe follows. I thought I was going to present a calmly drawn picture of my workplace, and wow look what came out of the woodwork. This is not aimed at anyone here, it's just a spontaneous rant. Thanks, Top_Witch, for givimg me a leader in to this, it's obviously something I really!!! needed to unload.**
I used to have much friendlier interactions with colleagues, but all of the folks I really got on well with ended up disgusted at the way they were being treated, one way and another, and have left. I helped quite a few of them make that decision, too, and I actually helped one get away... but I've been stranded here by a string of catastrophes (you do not go on job interviews when you are tube-feeding a sick animal to save its life [ it worked]... or when you are homeless from being stalked, and living in a bud's back room).
I'm fairly sure the powers that be are aware that I've encouraged my pals to get out, but I haven't noticed them treating their excellent (responsible, committed) employees any better as a consequence. Presently, the office is deserted most days - anyone who can work at home is doing so as much as possible, and a lot of folks have switched to part time if they have a spouse. It's pretty obvious that nobody likes being there, or they'd be there, wouldn't they... but the idea of making it a more pleasant place to be, by treating one another with courtesy, never seems to occur to 'em.
I have experienced remarkable rudeness in a number of different work settings, but nothing like the things I routinely encounter where I am now. Even the people I tend to get along with treat me like a piece of furniture half the time. Whew! End of tirade. Thanks, y'all, for listening.
Storm
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Yes, I hear you. I know the loneliness too. It's a emptiness. Its
a grieving. Its sometimes envy for others who have a loving family. Its
feeling unsafe in the world. Its fearing the future. Its sometimes subtle and sometimes overwhelming. I counteract it by reminding myself to feel grateful for what I do have. No one has everything in life. Even the people who had loving families dont have everything.
This board helps me feel less lonely.
Grace
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This thread caught my eye because I have been struggling with deep loneliness. I think I've always been lonely - makes sense coming from a N family. However, I used to be able to keep myself fairly numb with performing/people pleasing. Now, my old trusty methods aren't working for me anymore...so the loneliness has set in like a thick morning fog. Much of the time I am unable to see where I am going. I am told this is part of the 'healing process'. :? I wonder what life is going to look and feel like once the fog lifts?
Chutzbagirl
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Chutzbagirl:
I can relate totally with the "being in a fog". It as if you cannot think clearly on just about anything. It is part of the depression of realizing that you came from a family of Ns, have dealt with N's, and the knowledge you cannot connect with your family of N's. The seperation and realization that "it's not me, but it's them" syndrome sets in.
Part of the detaching process is the aloneness and the realization that your life is up toy now. To make it what you will DESPITE where you came from. The important fact I came to realize "it is not where you have been, but where you are going" as the driving force.
No matter how much magical thinking on my part was going to change my family into "the Cleavers". There was no Ward or June going to greet me at breakfast every morning and say how are you, or if I had a problem "lets work it out". It was not going to happen. The lifting of the "fog" is a process and you must allow it to work it out.
If you are not seeing a therapist I encourage you to do so. This will help. Grieving of a family is no small matter and you must allow yourself the lattitude to do this. There are no "shoulds" in this only what is comfortable to you. Just don't be hard on yourself.
That black cloud you wake up with each morning will eventually go away as you replace the N's, the N "tapes" with positive people, loving other people who love you back, and doing those things that are constructive for you each day. Even if it is just making a cup of tea for yourself. The small things really begin to add up. Pretty soon the elephant is out of the room.
Much love, Patz
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Hi Patz,
Thanks for your encouragement. :) The loneliness is hard to admit. I am seeing a counselor. I struggle with expecting myself to be 3 steps ahead each time I go in. But, my progress is slow and painful. I am enjoying my alone time, which is a little odd for an extravert. But, not very many people understand what it's like to have no choice but to turn away from family.
I have a husband and children. My husband and I are committed, but he does not have the ability to give my heart what it needs on a consistent basis. He is a critical 'thinker' and I am a sensitive 'feeler'. Why we are programmed to marry our opposites and people that remind us of our pasts is a frustrating riddle to me. However, I attend Al Anon and am doing all I can to heal - but I guess it takes a while.
I am amazed at the drop in my energy level and vitality in general. I used to train for marathons - can't even imagine doing that now. Taking a nice long walk or doing yoga is more my speed these days.
My two favorite family members passed away years ago. I am missing them terribly. :( So I'm just putting one foot infront of the other; doing my best to trust this process and believe the pain will pass someday. Just when I think the 'old me' is coming back, I dip back down and have to accept my lower level of productivity and saddened mood.
Thanks again for your encouragement. I've been pming more than posting. It's hard for me to 'confess' how much I struggle.
chutzbagirl :?
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Chutzpagirl:
No need to apologize about the struggle. That's what it is every day, a struggle just to stay even. Believe it or not most of us here at the board face this. This is the residual of being around Ns. Even post N 8 years I have bad days, puncuated by major anxiety attacks. They are further apart than they were, but I still experience them. There was about a 3 year period of my life that is a total blank due to depression and anxiety. I was taking care of so much that when it finally came to an end, the bottom fell out.
Being alone can be a companion of a sorts. It leaves you to think about things and to work through issues. Your husband being the "thinker" tends to put things in a logical context. The fall out with N's does not bend itself to analysis because to much of the subjective self is involved in what happened to you. In other words you almost had to be there with you and your N family to really understand what went on. At least he is trying to figure it out and that has to be of some comfort.
Glad to see you are going to Al-non. That should be of some help as well. Just give yourself the luxury of grieving. I came to think of my own circumstances as the death of what I wanted in a family and expected. I grieved my expectations, what I experienced and finally came the acceptance of my family for what they are. N's. To expect anything else is to subject myself to being used, manipulated, minimized and more importantly, just indiffernet to my needs.
You can work through this, just give yourself the time.
Patz