Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Bloopsy on February 28, 2005, 02:22:09 PM
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I went to AA. I met these 2 men. I thought one was my friend and one was my lover. But they were not. I was running from how bad I feel and how lonely. Deep down I knew that the relationships I wanted to believe were there were not real and were based on what we each wanted to believe about ea chother------it all happened so fast and suddenly and I was not protecting myself. Now I feel like I can't let my feelings out for me because they are still painful. Talking to one of them was like talking to the mean voices in my head-----------He would always deny my feelings were real by using the AA slogan feelings aren't facts. That was hard. Theier minds moved so quickly I coauld not keep up. We had a fight and five minutes later I couldn't remember what is about but I felt horrified. I know that one of these men is a good kind man who was not using me and to him he is in my prayers and heart. I wish I was strong enough to be his friend but I am not . . . . . . . . . .. I just felt like a little girl following her daddy around. I can't deal with men. I just can't. I don't mean to hurt anyone. I just can't deal with them. My voice is too small and I feel like I am being pulled like a puppet on a string around. I just am writing this to get it out of me. I am sorry. I do not know why it is so hard for me to take care of myself period.
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Bloopsy,
I am so sorry you're hurting. Relax a bit, breathe.
Give yourself a break. Don't beat yourself up for failing to take care of yourself. That is not being kind to yourself all over again. It's a vicious cycle, this not loving ourselves. Have some compassion for your humanity. Humans aren't always on top of what we do.
You said you just can't deal with men. Can you take that at face value.....do whatever you can NOT to deal with men right now? I know AA is a valuable thing, but just because people are there, it doesn't necessarily mean they are totally together humans.
You're not a mess. You and your life situation are two very different things. YOU are valuable...just you. You don't need men (or me, for that matter) to decide that for you.
I'm sure you know by now, that addictions come in all different packages, and male attention can be one.
Is there a female therapist/counselor/social worker you can start talking to about this? Maybe you can find some help....think on it.....something will come up.
Hang in there. You're ok...as just you, remember.
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Bloopsy,
Don't beat yourself up, ok? I wonder if you can call your therapist. Also, can you go to women-only AA meetings? That might help a lot.
bunny
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Bloopsy, you're not the only one who's ever made a mistake.
You wrote: I was running from how bad I feel and how lonely.
These are powerful feelings, Bloopsy, and I bet there are a lot of people here who have felt the same way and may not always have behaved perfectly during those periods.
The thing is.....maybe this is a time when you will need to just focus on you. Do you believe you are ready for a relationship with a man? Or are there things about you that you would like to work on, so that you are happy within yourself and with your life, first?
If you were in a happy, comfortable emotional state, and enjoying life, you might be more likely to attract someone just as healthy, do you think?
Anyway.......it sounds like you are fighting an addiction and for that you deserve a very large pat on the back. That is not easy. At least you went to an AA meeting instead of caving into a craving. At least you have posted here instead of a similar set back. This is a great struggle you are in and you are still battling and winning. Keep that up, Bloopsy! You are winning!!!
I am wondering if you might consider volunteering anywhere? Sometimes, even one day per month of giving to others can feel wonderful. It is true that by giving we receive and since you are feeling lonely, I just thought it might help to say....visit others who are alone or shut in??? You might find that you are needed and appreciated and that might help you to value yourself more. It could be a nice social interaction too and you might enjoy the people you visit. Just an idea.
Best wishes to you Bloopsy.
GFN
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What is this slogan that feelings are not a fact? It is a fact that we have feelings and it is a fact that whatever we are feeling we are feeling. Can anyone explain to me what this slogan means? Is it that our feelings may be based on something that isn't a fact, that makes sense. But to say that feelings are not a fact makes no sense to me, except to say that facts and feelings are two different things, however they both are a reality.
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Sorry that last post about feelings and facts was me, LM.
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Bloopsie:
Mixing the 12 step program at AA and trying to mix working through emotional issues is like mixing oil and water.
AA is predicated on things that you do. I drink therefore I am.
Working through emotional issues is like peeling and onion. One layer at a time.
Mistakes: Michael Jordan did not achieve his high scoring technique by making all the baskets, he missed a lot of baskets. This is a simplistic way of saying that if I counted all of my sins of ommission and commission......well just shoot me now to put me out of my misery!
Men: When you are feeling vulnerble, that is the last thing you want to be fooling with is a man. Take care of yourself first. Patz
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Hi guys now i can feel my arms and legs again finally acknowledged at least a little that I was emotionally insested by my mom and dad, and that I don't have to let them and everyone do it anymore and blame myself. I can feel the surface of my skin somewhat better and my arms and leg feel more connected to my body and less like slinging sausage.
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You sound like a gentle loving soul, and I agree that it can be difficult dealing with people who are very assertive about what they know, think and want. Such people can be either male or female, however. i know some really quiet, gentle,people of either gender, who have wonderful listening skills and are not always trying to push their agenda at other people's expense. Learning to develop a keen eye for such people is a skill that can be learned. However, it is also important to learn how to deal with others in general. Therapy would really help you with both sets of skills.
I am sorry you are suffering and hope you will seek out therapy as you will be amazed at how helpful it will be.
((hugs))
S
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Bloopsy, I'm glad you can feel your arms, legs and skin again. That's very good news.
LM, "Feelings aren't facts" refers to people acting impulsively on feelings without considering the consequences/ramifications. Unfortunately the slogan can be used in a self-righteous, manipulative manner by narcissistic people.
bunny
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Bloopsie,
patz wrote,
Men: When you are feeling vulnerble, that is the last thing you want to be fooling with is a man. Take care of yourself first.
and S wrote,
You sound like a gentle loving soul, and I agree that it can be difficult dealing with people who are very assertive about what they know, think and want. Such people can be either male or female, however. i know some really quiet, gentle,people of either gender, who have wonderful listening skills and are not always trying to push their agenda at other people's expense
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I think both are right. My wife and I lead a middle aged singles group at our church and all are either divorced or coming off a breakup, and some are or were addicted to various things. We concentrate solely on building the singles up so that they are strong enough to make wise decisions. We purposely do not encourage dating. Most are older than we are so its not like we give them a time out if we hear they were out past 11:00pm, but romance can be a disaster for someone vulnerable like you are right now.
Like patz said, take care of yourself first.
And like S said you will find help from either gender, just make sure you're strong enough to know the difference between help and manipulation first. Right now you're not. Try and find a therapist. If you can't afford one a lot of churches or synagogues have counsellors who will help for nothing, maybe not for the long term but they can help you through a crisis.
mudpuppy
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I was raped by my father in the bathroom when I was three. When I went upstairs to my babysitters house the two teenagers abused sexually abused me whenever they got the chance. I ran downstairs to Barbara and Richaed(my)parents" and I had the same kind of out of body experience I have continually now. I remember. I had nowhere to go and I wasw only three I could not hide from these horrible people raping me and forcing me to do things whenever they got the idea in thei rotten dirty heads. They can go to hell and rot there forever and I will laugh at them. I hate them. They are all the curse words in the world in every language and I have a right to hate them and everyone else because they are everywhere and I am nowhere. I told my therapist and she believed me. I always thought that my father was my soul mate in heaven. He was not he was the stinker drunken asshole who raped me when I was three. I will never forgive him. I hate my man accupuncturist who acted like I had to write a motherfucking book and what I couldn't he was like come on Bridget you have to stop this and he can go to hell I will not allow him near me again I have a feeling he is a stupid child molester too. I can't believe I 6767889876 went through the 98-098-098 trouble to get my damn father out of the9870-87-0987=-0mass graves when that bastard raped me when I was three. My sponsor at AA migh dropme now because I run and see stupid user men and totally forget that I am supposed to meet her. When he jumps I say how )(*)(*)(*)*high that user. Haveing I am hard time controlling my )(*)()*(*)(*(78397987)*)(*&^67%^#& language. I hope I can KEEp my sponsor but I don't )*)(*&(*&(*&(*&(* know if I will be able to do what she is helping me to do. God help me put in my best effort to do my part in this. I don't want to lose the only person who is unselfishly helping me. I know now that my mom gives me things because she feels so guilty because she knows. My sponsor treats me like I can do it. My mom is always making excuses for me. I don't need her )(*)(*&(*&)(*&(excuses or want them. I believed with all my heart that my father really loved me and my mother told me that he left because he couldn't get up in time for taking us to school but the truth was he couldn't keep his handsoff me and my sister. I can't trust my thinking of her that she is a (*)(*&)(*)(*87978 Saint because if he was that horrible and I thought he was a saint then I obviously can't trust my own thinking about my parents. I am 28 years old. I feel like an old woman. I can hardly walk. It is all his fault. I feel him begging me from the underworld not to tell his secret. I always defended him. It seems like I was defending my life. I always felt like I had to protect my mom and be her good little girl. I am like her appendage, if I feel some way that makes her uncomfortable she tells me not to feel that way. When I told her about the upstairs neighbors abusing me I always wondered why she hardly responded.I told her this and she didn'y belives me. Now I feel very bad.
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Hi Bloopsie,
Are we hearing from your children? I'm guessing that most people here also believe you. I wonder if you could call your therapist and leave a message. Maybe she can help with these feelings about what happened and the dissociation and feeling bad which sounds pretty overwhelming.
{{{ Bloopsie }}}
bunny
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I asked her how old she is and she says she is as old as the sea and no one can help her so they can all just stay away. I know that me and my three other inner children need help and have help and I am going to get it for us even though parts of me do not want it because doctors feel like they are invading my body and other people are very scary and we always think they are going to abuse us at any moment. My sponsor is not the only support that I have she is just the only support that I feel that I can trust, no that is not true I can trust my therapist, I think I feel so good about my sponsor because she has higher expectations than me and it seems like she is in the outside world whereas when i go to see my therapist or talk to her on the phone it is like going into a dim cave.. I am very shocked right now because I just recovered my memory of this yesterday of my dad and what he did to me and I pray to God not my sister. But I think so. Is there anyone out there who has gone through a similar experience? I am relieved that i found m ymemory. I will keep praying. I think that I was looking for this memory. I need to know why things have been so hard for me and it is so hard for me to breathe and eat and do anything to stop terrible things from happeneing, that I go numb and dissasociate when they do or even when something small happens. I always sensed that when people talked about the Holocaust and were like "never forget because then it could happen again" that it had some personal signifigance to me that I didn't understand like a bell or a wave or a child crying in the dark calling me home.
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Bunny yes that was Bipsy, she is very angry. Thank you for remembering about my children. I talked to my therapist a little bit ago.
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Hi Bloopsie,
I'm glad you're taking care of yourself and your inner children. :) The ones who are afraid of help might be reassured by that even though they're apprehensive. I'm glad you have a sponsor and a therapist who are available, especially now that you have these bad memories.
bunny
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Bloopsy, I read this last night, but was unable to respond because I felt overwhelmed by the horror. :shock: I felt your post so strongly, I know its real. Bipsy and you have every right to be angry and enraged. I'm glad to hear that you are talking to your therapist and doing what you need to take care of you and your inner family. Sending strength and support,
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LM, "Feelings aren't facts" refers to people acting impulsively on feelings without considering the consequences/ramifications. Unfortunately the slogan can be used in a self-righteous, manipulative manner by narcissistic people.
bunny
My own saying about feelings, that I tell my daughter, is; 'Feelings are allowed'. This might be an antidote to the N manipulations.
My family is full of 'should's about feelings, like (to her) 'you shouldn't hate your dad'. I tell her that there is no should about it; feelings are allowed. They are not good or bad, they just are. And the word 'ambivalent' is very useful to describe loving and hating at the same time.
But after we allow the feelings, then we make decisions about what our behaviour needs to be.
(((((((Bloopsy)))))))
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I always sensed that when people talked about the Holocaust and were like "never forget because then it could happen again" that it had some personal signifigance to me that I didn't understand like a bell or a wave or a child crying in the dark calling me home.
The resonance that you feel here is real. Anyone who has been abused shares a lot with those who went through the Holocaust. You may well share something else too, which is post traumatic stress disorder. I have this, and I share the feeling of commonality with survivors that you describe.
If you feel strong enough, there is a site you can visit to find out more. I go there myself, and it is a safe and loving place.
http://www.bein.com/trauma/
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Thank you for all your responses. I admit my mind is so drowning that I don't really remember them soi well and that is something to try to stop punishing myself over and thank you so much for writing I know it helps rvrn if I don't remember. I am so angry. All this time I have punished myself. I think that the feelings arren't facts slogan is really important to me. When Ed was treating me abusively and telling me I could not leave I started to feel like a horrible and dirty person and I thought that must be because I was. I was so fdegraded and alone. I couldn't move. I was not allowed to leave. I felt like I had to thank him for helping me to uncover this memory. That didn't help me to get away from him it just made it worse. I thought he had uncovered the truth about me that I was horrible but really he treated me in a way that made3 what happen when I was little come up. I couldn't get away and was not allowed to leave. i know that I am talking at everyone and I'm sorry for that. A lot of the time I feel like I have spent so much time patiently listening because I had to or thought I had to. I feel so ashamed when I can't listen but I feel angry that I have to keep on listeniong and listening and listening. It is the same with sex I feel ashamed when I can't feel it but so angry that I have to keep on doing it just to keepo the other person from getting angry. I KNOW that is not supposed to be how it is.
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You uncovered the memory yourself, you don’t have to thank anyone. Be angry with those who have abused you B! It’s their dirt, their terrible acts upon you. You’re still pure and beautiful. You have the right to be angry with them.
You haven’t made any mistakes B. You have nothing to be ashamed of!
Why are you sorry for talking here? That’s what it’s for. Please don’t be sorry for talking. You have a right to be listened to. We want to listen. We’re listening because we want to and because we like you and love you. You don’t have to give anything ‘in return’ either. You don’t even have to listen! Just be your wonderful self, please.
Can you find a way to live which would allow you to choose whether or not to have sex with someone? I mean, could you live in a place with other women for example? Where you could think about yourself and your life, on your own, without a man? Would you like to do that B?
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I would like my life without a man, I guess, if I liked my life!!!!!!! Then it would feel more like a choice. If i didn't feel like I was incapable of doing things I need to to take care of myself and that the other person had control over me and there was something too intense about my attatchment to them. I guess that it is more of accepting my own self and how I really feel and not rejecting something. I don't reject anyone really. I just know I can't deal with them in my life.. I am saying the serenity prayer a lot and that is helping and a little bit I see that what they did was horrible and I feel horrible but am not horrible and no wonder I am in such a state and running constantly. It feels less like i am bad and morer like I am someone who bad things happened to. I was able to sleep last night and the sleeping felt restful and more like sleep than it has in a long time less lke waking up with a start. I understnd that I am feeling the way I felt when I was little, helpless. I can't leave, I can't take care of myself, I have to just watch the horror unfoldand make desparate attempts that don't work. I feel so alone I thought I had 2 new fathers. that was something I wanted, to have a spare in case one abandooned me or died. But I don't feel alone lonely anymore. It is better than being with them . I don't feel like I am dying since I have remembered this everything doesn't seem so irrational anymore.
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I’m so happy for you that it’s starting to make sense B. There are so many good things in your post – sleeping better last night, knowing the events were horrible and bad but that you aren’t bad – these are such positive big moves. And even though the remembering must be hurtful, if it means you understand it better, that’s for the good. It’s all for the good B. I really think you’re going to be okay. Take care, and talk about all of this with your therapist okay?
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Yay Guest it really is good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sleeping relaxingly is so nice. One thing I didn't say that is also good because is that I am starting to come back into my body, it feels like being reactivated. I can feel my 2 feet on the ground and they are wobbly but I can feel the wobbling so it is nicer. I realized that moving slowly is good too for this. I think I will stick with myself for a while and not worry about how in the program they say stick with the men or stick with the women, i don't feel like sticking to anyone anymore except myself. And certainly I will not stick to my father anymore which I did even though he is dead and before that I never saw him I still felt that I neede to be loyal, and it was not just me, it was me and him. which had no basis in reality always wondering if it was true what the bruha man said that he is watching over me and is suffering because I am suffering, and poor daddy that I am making him suffer I better stop suffering so he can stop suffering, whoops. Well it is nice to feel like a singular person. I think I will just savor that.
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Bloopsy,
poor daddy that I am making him suffer I better stop suffering so he can stop suffering, whoops.
What unhelpful, harmful words to say to you, it's trying to make you feel guilty for feeling bad :x and it's not your fault! I'm angry for a moment for you B.
Well it is nice to feel like a singular person. I think I will just savor that.
Fantastic! Now I feel great for you :D
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yes it is so great to feel like a singular person!!!! I feel like I have the power of choice. That makes me feel pretty powerful.
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:D hope you have a good day B, and your days get better all the time :D bye for now, (((Bloopsy))) keep letting us know how you are please, we like to hear from you!
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Bye!!I hope you have a good day toooo\
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Hi Bloopsy,
My heart goes out to you as you heal from this abysmal suffering.
I think you might find encouragement, strength and hope in one of the Anon groups for sexual addicts. SAnon or Co-Sa are for people who are healing (and reeling) from the effects of someone's out of control sexual behavour. You can find a sponsor who can guide you through your issues with sexual abuse, someone who understands, someone who knows. This can help as you go through therapy tremendously.
My family is very sexually deviant. I was not raped but could not have a happy life until I dealt with the far reaching effects of my childhood. My SAnon sponsor and the other women in my group made me feel accepted in a way I'd never known before. And because they had found a way out of their darkness, I came to trust that I could, too.
Smiles, hugs, and kleenexes,
Delphine