Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: bkkabri on February 28, 2005, 04:20:44 PM
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I dont know what to think about all this-I dont understand why I am so intimate with all these problems people have. I have been intimate with AIDS, bi polar, bulemia, and now this. I feel like I should have went to school to be a doctor. I am so lost, and I know you have given me great posts. I am not trying to obsess about my ex. She is a part of a bigger problem. I just wanted to beleive I found my friend, lover, person I could count on and who could count on me. I just found out another friend from my old work died today. Fifty five years old, and a nice lady. I really liked her. I am 36 and I am scared because I never have had the opportunity to be unconditionally loved or give love without a person freaking out. I lay in bed at night thinking about all the times I could have said something to help my relationship. I think about how many times I thought I said the things that made her feel special. I think about all the times I wanted to talk about us and how it never happened. I hate her telling me that she wanted to feel like the most important person in my life and I thought I was providing that for her. I hate the fact that I may never be able to find that love because the next will be worst than the one before. I hate the fact taht people lie about who they are. I talked to friends of mine who said they didnt understand how my ex and I were together because she was so quiet and I was so outgoing. I thought we complimented each other. She said she was proud, but never helped me with anything. I didnt know what to do to help her with school, I made no demands. I lived my life around her schedule. I feel like a bad man because I dont know what else I could have done. Not for any of them. I wish I knew why my personality is so attractive to these people in the beginning and then so vengeful in the end. I actually am admitting that I am voiceless now because it is my personality that I hate most. Not because I dont think I am good person, but because I dont have the slightest idea what I am doing to make the people I care about turn away and act like everything I did was for nothing. My ex actually told me near the end, I will give you back all the gifts you gave me except the palm pilot-I need that for work. What a hurtful thing to say. It was all for nothing. I am so dead inside knowing I never had anything real in my life. I tell God every night-whatever it is I did to deserve this-I am sorry. I jsut want to feel good inside like I used to. I am back to square one. Thanks for listening.
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Hi Bkkari, I feel sorry about what had happen to your co-worker and your ex. I've never met her so I don't know what kind of person she is, but I think she is mean for returning all the gifts to you, and tells u she must keep the pam pilot. I don't think she really knows how to care for other people's feelings.
During sometime in my lfe, I met some people who doesn't care about others' feelings.
Don't worry, we are here to support you and are ready to listen to u.
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bkkabri,
Feeling good inside about yourself is something that you have to do for yourself, hopefully your therapist can help you with that. I think this is what you really need to concentrate on, because if you don't have that you will continue to feel overwhelmed by the problems in life.
LM
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I went to my therapist today. She told me that a healthy woman wouldnt purchase me porn, or freak out like she did. I feel like like I failed her because I didnt understand the stress of her school. She made it look like she knew what she was doing and I gave her space to study. I asked her about her day, but she said nothing. I want to heal, but I really lost somebody I loved so much. And after all the unnormal stuff in my life, I really was led to beleive this was normal. I hope thru my therapy I realize that my ex had problems that were beyond my control. I wish she had the capacity to see that I was there for her. I am not perfect, and I am not a mind reader. What I am is somebody who can make honest mistakes, I can apologize, and hope that you realize that I never meant to make you feel insecure. I never understood why you couldnt talk to me. I dont understand why people come to me to solve their problems. I dont have that ability. I only have the ability to try and be a freind. I know this N stuff is for real, and I am pretty sure she has alot of traits, but God what a waste. What a waste to have people who can feel so bad that they need to hurt others to build them up. I wish I knew what 80% was, because I loved her enough to give her my all. I just cant be your doormat, I can only be an equal. I dont want feel emotions anymore. They hurt too much. I hope I dont develop these traits. I want to be a good man to a woman.
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bkkabri,
Most the time situations like this happen because both people are hurting and wounded. It helps to realize that you did the best you could and so did she. You need to work on yourself now and get to where you are standing on firm ground. A healthy person experiences the full range of emotions and responds appropriately to them. A healthy person does not close down there emotions. Anyways it sounds like your therapist got you heading in the right direction.
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Sorry again, that last post was me, LM.
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I know what my problem is, and I know where it hides. I was and am over my dad dying. I accept this as reality. I accept he was a hurtful and mean person who treated me like crap. My only sin was that I had to be born to him being my father. I look for peace and I seek normal everyday life. I thought I had it. She acted so normal. The only red flag we had was the lack of intimacy. It seemed like it was orchastrated for my benefit. It just kept getting less and less each month. She never seemed to want to get close in a loving way with physical or emotional touch. She bought me gifts, but she never she never accepted my intamacy. I dont know what to do. She makes me feel like I am not man enough to make her happy. I tried the best I could, but I dont know what 80% is. Does anyone understand what this means. It would help me alot to hear your perspective if you had relationships with a person who made you feel like you didnt do enough for them.
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bkkabri,
What are you talking about as far as this 80%, what does this 80% refer to? You say you are 36, how old is this girl? I think if you are honest with yourself you would see that you have had problems with intimacy forever, that's what happens when you don't get proper parenting. You got to get that proper parenting somehow in life in order to experience true intimacy. Have you had other intimate relationships? If so what happened with them?
LM
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I dont have issues with intimacy. I actually was there for her. I was there to talk whenever she wanted. When she needed anything I was there to provide it. I know I am normal functioning inside as a human being. I complimented and she yelled. I gave to her and she pushed me away. I dont know what the hell is going on. I just want the girl back I knew. I know its over, but why would anyone freak out like she did. I am walking down the street with her at a fair holding her hand looking at art work. She actually freaked on me about a woman walking by because she was wearing a tight sweater and she said look at the breast on her, I bet you love those. I told her I dont know what she was talking about and she was like well you should have looked you really would have liked them. I dont know what the hell she is talking about. I cant win. I cant understand when I am trying to love her why she is pushing me away. It just kept happening and I hated it because I only wanted her in my life. I hate her now because she used me. I just talked to my neighbor and she says that my ex dumped on her because she wanted to meet us up for a drink. She said my ex actually told her that she did not want me hanging out with people she knew as a couple. What the heck does that mean? I wish I complimented her more. I wish I knew how to talk like a doctor. I thought life was important outsided the career as well. That is all she cares about is her career.
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bkkabri,
I feel like you are talking at me and not with me.
LM
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Brian, you DO have a problem with intimacy. I know because you have the SAME problem I do. We know how to give, but we do not consistently insist on being around people who are able to give enough back to us in return. Intimacy is something that is shared between people. You (I) cannot have intimacy with someone unless that someone is giving back to you. It doesn't matter how much you are able to give. If the other person cannot or will not give back to you, you will not be intimate with them.
I tolerate or even attract people who do not give in return because that's what I grew up with. There was no discussion of feelings in my family. No sharing = no intimacy. I dealt with this by having an inner relationship with myself to compensate. This does NOT replace my need (it is a NEED, not a want) for intimacy from others. I am having an awful time right now insisting on intimacy in my life without falling back to that inner "intimacy light." I'm struggling to make intimacy a right for me, not just a need.
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Intimacy, how would you define it, anyone?
Is being intimate being completely honest with another person? Sharing everything on a particular topic, without worrying about how you are perceived?
Is it getting to know another person - their mind - very well? So well that you can predict what they are thinking and how they will respond, given any particular situation?
Any more definitions please, I struggle with this. Thank you.
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Guest: here is a rather "finky" description of intimacy someone told me, although corny, perhaps true:
intimacy= into me see
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for me it's being able to be myself and let someone else be themself and be close on many levels.
I think one reason many of us chose relationships with emotionally unavailable people was fear of intimacy. I know I prefer to dance around playing games for ages and that even now I pull away or wreck things if someone gets too close...
Therapy really helps. I still go back each time I get 'stuck'. How did it go?
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Guest,
I think intimacy is all the things you describe except that I don't think you are expected to always know how the person will act/react to a situation, but that whatever the reaction is, it can be discussed and eventually understood without causing a breakdown of the intimacy. I don't think you need to be a mindreader of your intimate partner, but that you care enough about the other to talk through problems, questions, concerns and reach a common ground. I believe intimacy builds over time and never truly stops or reaches an end point. With a real intimate partner, growing together and learning about one another should continue for a lifetime. I also believe that real intimacy must have honesty at its core and would not involve secrets or lies about anything. This may all be pie in the sky, but it is certainly my goal for any long-term relationship in the future.
Brigid
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Thanks Longtire. I know what I consider intimacy in my life. I want to be in a relationship where my partner and I can have honest talks about our experiences in life. To talk honestly about our dreams and aspirations and accepting each others flaws in life. I want feel like my partner can lean on me in times of need, and allows me to have the same opportunity. I beleive intamacy is seeing your partner succeeding in her desires and being there to share in the experience. I beleive that my significant other is my best friend. My lover and confidont(sp). I never threatened my relationship with my ex. She just kept pushing me during a time that was supposed to be special. I know you dont think much of me with some of my anger and I do apologize, but imagine sitting there with somebody you love and they think so little of you and Xmas to go to a porn store, wrap it up and give it to you on Xmas morning. It took alot of thought to be so cruel to me. Imagine going to buy roses, buy a necklace, and take her to a great dinner. Tell her how beautiful she is, and then just talk about a televiision show on VH1 and then have the response from the one you want to make feel special and they are upset because of somebodies fake breast. Imagine how you defend yourself against such a statement. Imagine how bad you feel knowing that everything you did to make a person feel loved just went off on you for nothing you can understand. Imagine that person blaming you for their thoughts and not taking any responsiblity for their actions. Imagine talking with a medical professional about your dad dying in your arms to have her know that I need their support to ease down on the medical disesase talk, and imagine the one you love who said loves you to say get over your dad dying. I dont want to walk around your feelings because he died years ago. Imagine knowing you believed her loving words only to condemn you as a man who cant understand that she wants me to give my life to her but doesnt feel she should have to give back the same. I write a mile a minute because I cant beleive that I tried to be sincere and not disrespectful and it works against me. I wish I said nothing, because I feel like she misunderstood what I was saying. I dont get a second chance. People say I am crazy for even wanting one, but I miss and LOVED the woman I met the first year. I dont understand why she needed to lie and be with me in the first place. She could have just gone out with me and said goodbye. I hate that she wasnt sincere with her feelings. I was there to listen. To be a person she could count on. I dont want to love anymore, because I dont trust my ability to smell out somebody wanting to take advantage of me. Guest, I dont mean to talk at you. I guess I just get hurt by your words because you seem to take sides against me and say that I was at fault for her actions. I did nothing to hurt her, I only wanted to grow together as a couple and she just kept pushing me away. In the end she wins becasue she is happy to hurt me as a person and she has what she wants- A person who will spend their nights talking about diseases and patient loads. I thought she would enjoy talking and having fun with us. All she cares about is her career, I am an afterthought. She was always in my heart. The problem is she doesnt even beleive it. I guess I dont know how to treat a woman.
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Thanks Longtire. I know what I consider intimacy in my life. I want to be in a relationship where my partner and I can have honest talks about our experiences in life. To talk honestly about our dreams and aspirations and accepting each others flaws in life. I want feel like my partner can lean on me in times of need, and allows me to have the same opportunity. I beleive intamacy is seeing your partner succeeding in her desires and being there to share in the experience. I beleive that my significant other is my best friend. My lover and confidont(sp).
Sounds great! Brian, I think you've nailed it in this part of the post. Keep your desires in mind and keep coming back to that. Sorry if my previous post came off as condemning, that wasn't my intent. I'm still trying to internalize this lesson myself, and its painful every time I hit the wall.
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It seems to me that you were in love with the idea of being in love. You know now some of the problems that she has and that she isn't interested on working on those problems or developing intimacy. Is this the type of woman you want? Is this the type of woman you can experience intimacy with? I don't think so. You seem to want her to be what she is not, sure she has the potential to be all those things, but she isn't interested now in being that.
LM
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You said that in the end she wins and gets what she wants, which was to push you away. I think in the end YOU are the one who wins. You now have the opportunity to learn from this and the opportunity to be free to go find someone to be intimate with.
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That last post about that you are the winner was mine also.
LM
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My two cents.
Intimacy only exists as a byproduct of something else. That something else is mutual unconditional love. Unconditional love is not an emotion, it is an act of sacrifice on behalf of another, practiced continually. And it must be mutual or there isn't intimacy; there is a martyr and an executioner.
mudpup
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Dear bkkrabi,
First of all i want to say thank you for all your honesty on this board, and it has helped me to read the things that you write. Please do not stop loving I think you will be more unhappy then. I understand about how hard it is when you have been hurt so badly. I decided that I wasn't going to love anymore for similar reasons to you and it had disasterous consequences for me.
Also, I was wondering what it felt like to you to give to her and if it reminded you of the way you gave to anyone else from your past?
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I just want guest to know(not Longtire) I am not in love with love. I fell in love with a person who claimed to love me. A person who said I make her day, and she made mine. A woman who made me feel like a million bucks and proud to be with her. I have met women since who think I am great and would like to go out. As a man, I choose to tell them that I am not available emotionally and that I dont want to hurt them by leading them on. Thats because I dont love to love anyone. I genuinely felt a connection with this person and I hate the fact that the whole time she was lying about who she is. I actually have a friend who was friends with her before Deena kicked her out of her life, that said she would not allow this person or anybody else she was friends with to hang out with us. Not ever. I dont understand how a woman could tell a person that she doesnt want me around her friends. In two years, I only met two friends. I introduced her to over 30 people I consider friends. The woman introduced us and she wasnt even invited to my surprise party. She is my next door neighbor and she wasnt invited. My point is I take love, marriage, and friendship seriously. I dont fall in love just because.
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She lied to you about who she was, so were you in love with the lie or in love with the person you now know she is?
LM
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I loved the lie. I still do. Its hard because I know that person doesnt exist but the shell of the person who I was attracted to walks around with somebody else and I feel like the lie is out there again and now its a true being. I dont know if that makes sense. I want the woman I had back before the flipping out. All she cares about is medicine. The guy has what I cant give. He can provide the NS for her because she loves to talk about her knowledge in medicine because she doestn have anything else to talk about. I feel like that is true love to her, and I hate it because I feel like if I was a better listener about medicine this wouldnt have happened. I know its wrong to think this way, but I am so confused.
I am alone and I miss holding her and sleeping next to her and feeling safe. I know I dont feel safe anymore because I was walking on egg shells, but I dont understand how she can say she said all the stuff she did in our conversation. They were all lies. She never talked about us having a problem. I am a mature adult. I would have done anything to meet our needs including listening and giving more attention. All she had to do was ask. I miss the woman I met. How can a woman be so cruel?
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Bkkabri
How long are you going to keep mulling over these same things in your head about this woman? I'm really glad to see that you're getting professional help, just wondering when you're going to turn off that internal tape recorder..
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I just want guest to know(not Longtire) I am not in love with love. I fell in love with a person who claimed to love me. A person who said I make her day, and she made mine. A woman who made me feel like a million bucks and proud to be with her. I have met women since who think I am great and would like to go out. As a man, I choose to tell them that I am not available emotionally and that I dont want to hurt them by leading them on. Thats because I dont love to love anyone. I genuinely felt a connection with this person and I hate the fact that the whole time she was lying about who she is. I actually have a friend who was friends with her before Deena kicked her out of her life, that said she would not allow this person or anybody else she was friends with to hang out with us. Not ever. I dont understand how a woman could tell a person that she doesnt want me around her friends. In two years, I only met two friends. I introduced her to over 30 people I consider friends. The woman introduced us and she wasnt even invited to my surprise party. She is my next door neighbor and she wasnt invited. My point is I take love, marriage, and friendship seriously. I dont fall in love just because.
I really hope this doesn't sound cruel, but I think you need to move on. Your posts are extremely repetitive and it seems to me that you are 'stuck' in a terrible place, grieving about a woman who doesn't give a 'hoot' about you. You make this more than obvious in all your posts.
You have posted 'msn' conversations with her (which I consider unethical and unfair because they are considered 'private').
If this woman was so cruel and unhinged to you, why are you still fixated on her? This is not healthy?
I have also posted before that I think you have serious, unresolved issues surrounding your Dad's death and I am so sorry for you about this and can understand your pain.
I am sorry that the woman you considered your 'ideal' wasn't - but your 'idealisation' of her isn't healthy either....
Please continue with your therapy because we all want the best for you...