Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: write on March 03, 2005, 05:37:48 AM
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I wanted to post about this: because it is a natural part of resetting our relationships.
Ideally everyone will have acess to a fine psychologist or psycgiatrist as I do, and each time I feel 'stuck' I go back and work through thngs.
But if you can't:
here's what's helped me,my best tools
http://www.rational.org.nz/public/BeliefsQuestionnaire/bel1.htm
I DON't approve of any of the Sam Vaknin links on narcissism, though I understand why he needs to post them.
Think for yourself is the best advice I can give to anyone really....
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Ideally everyone will have acess to a fine psychologist or psycgiatrist as I do, and each time I feel 'stuck' I go back and work through thngs.
But if you can't:
here's what's helped me,my best tools
I don't understand. Either your fine psychologist/psychiatrist is the ideal tool - or that website on belief is. Which helped you most?
Should I only use that website if I am not fortunate enough to have access to a fine psychologist/psychiatrist? Or should I use it if indeed I am myself a fine psychologist/psychiatrist?
I agree, thinking for ourselves is the very best we can do. Having our thinking (and actions) questioned by others encourages more thinking too. Agreed?
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Dear Write:
I bet you posted here to share what has helped you with anyone interested. Am I right, Write?
I have no questions about your thinking or actions.
Thankyou for sharing.
GFN
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I bet you posted here to share what has helped you with anyone interested. Am I right, Write?
GFN you state your perception and assumption about someone else's motivation. Then you ask a question to obtain confirmation of your perception.
I have no questions about your thinking or actions.
Then you contradict yourself. Why?
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Hi Guest:
Yes....your are right! I did perceive and assume that Write had good intentions of sharing what has helped... with us.
And I did ask a question to confirm that, to make sure that my perceptions and assumptions of Write's intention are correct.
And I did say that I don't have any questions about Write's thinking or actions.
It does sound a bit contradictory, doesn't it?
Thanks for pointing that out.
It's Writes intentions--aim---purpose.... I'm referring to.
The action was to post the info....I don't question the action.
The thinking.....I don't question....I don't know what Write thinks but it seems Write might think the info is worth posting, since it was posted.
But Writes intention....seems obvious to me but maybe I'm daft.
GFN
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Guest: okay, I'll bite!
Since you are on the subject of asking someone to explain thier motivations for a post, what's yours?
Why are you being so picky? Are you having a bad day? I felt irritated reading your post/questioning. (my feelings, my choice) You have every right to do what ever you want. I have every right to think you are being prodding in an unkind way to the original poster. Geez, lighten up. Your manner of language reminds me of my ex (not fun or funny, except for him).
In an introduction to an art history lecture on the Dada movement, my professor planted grad students in the audience to stand up and say absurd, yet somewhat related challenges to things he said. After realizing there couldn't be THAT many angry people in the lecture hall, we figured it out.....great lecture on the concepts behind the movement.
So, is that your point? You agree we should think for ourselves. I agree and will defend anyone's right to say anything they want and NOT feel the need to defend it. (including you) GFN's assumptions (I assume too) are most likely based on the feeling tone on this board, which is supportive and caring. I applaud GFN on her restraint and maturity in responding to you.
Sorry, I don't feel like being so kind. You hit an exNvictim nerve.
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This is a useful link, thanks. I'm going to bookmark it.
bunny
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I was rambling a bit.
Yes, I posted the link because it's something I personally found useful.
I'm really lacking concentration right now, I can't follow all the threads but I keep trying to come back and be supportive. This board helped me get through the toughest year of my life.
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Helloo again:
I applaud GFN on her restraint and maturity in responding to you.
Thankyou Mum. Now you've got me blushing. :oops: I felt kind of juvenile defending my post like that. :oops:
You, on the other hand, stated your feelings loud and clear and your right to express them. That is maybe less restraintful (is there such a word?) but probably more honest and healthy and adult-like.
Guest: I don't assume your questions were necessarily unkind but I did feel insulted for Write, reading your post. Maybe my post to Write pushed some button of yours that caused you to think something and then to post back to me? What did you think? How did you feel? No need to answer.
The point is....maybe you didn't mean to come across as you did? And maybe you reacted to my post (a bit like I reacted to yours)?
I posted a positive comment, stating that I saw Write's post as sharing and thanking Write for doing so. I could have been clearer about how I felt reading your post, but I wasn't. I didn't want to directly confront you. I might try harder next time to be more grown up and brave about it.
That's what I've learned. Not to say that I will do better next time. I'm a bit of a slow learner sometimes..especially with my ancient habits/coping skills. :roll:
Write: I'm glad this board has helped you through such a tough year and I'm sorry that you had such a hard one and for your difficulty concentrating right now. I'm glad you're here trying to give something back and I appreciate that very much. Hope this coming year is a much better one for you. :D
GFN
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GFN: I'm not so sure I reacted appropriatelyat all. When the hair stands up on the back of my neck, though, something gives. My reaction tells me I am attached to something and I reacted without much awareness. I will attempt more patience.
I have a distinct problem with conflict when I guess (that may be the operative word here) it may have mean spiritedness behind it. I am open to the fact that I may be WAY off base in this instance.
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Write: sorry to have been distracted after your post. I went to that link and it is very useful indeed. Thanks for sharing. I agree with you on Vaknin. Strange stuff...I'm not really sure what to think when I read his "work" considering his background.
I am happy to hear you found help here. I have, too. Hope the next 12 months can be counted as "easy" in contrast to the last.
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mum,
Don't worry about overeacting. I was going to post something a little juicier than you did before I got pulled away. Our antennae go up for a reason. SamV and his minions are notorious for trolling boards and responding to anyone who criticizes the Big Enchilada, and Write certainly did that, at least to an N it was criticism.
Besides, anyone who picks on GFN, who has been very nice to me, is a real pole cat, IMHO. :)
mudpuppy
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Mudpup, You're funny!
How (not) strange you mentioned the V people trolling boards...I almost added how interesting it would be to me if mentioning him again brought another unusual post! Hmmmm.
Why on earth would these "people" do that? Because a narc is a narc is a narc? Glad to hear I'm not the only one who caught that........either that or we're both paranoid.
Write (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't need that crap.
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Hi mum,
you wrote,
Why on earth would these "people" do that? Because a narc is a narc is a narc? Glad to hear I'm not the only one who caught that........either that or we're both paranoid
I'm kinda slow. It took me awhile to spot the "people" wisecrack in your first sentence.
Is it even possible to be paranoid with an N in your life? I mean, when we turn around and spot somebody disappearing behind a corner, there really was somebody watching us. It was our N! To give an example, I got a letter from my lovely brother a couple of days ago with the usual threats. In one line he mentioned how I sit in my basement at my computer... Now I moved my office into the basement last April, long after I cut off contact with him, so my wife's immediate assumption was "He's been in our house!" We've both had that feeling previously, so I'm sure she's right.
We're not the paranoiders, we're the paranoidees. Why on earth would these "people" do that? Because a narc is a narc is a narc?
Write (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't need that crap
Amen.
mudpup
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mum,
Sorry about that last sentence. Some of your first quote got grafted on somehow.
mudpup
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Hi all:
Besides, anyone who picks on GFN, who has been very nice to me, is a real pole cat.
Hey Mudpuppy! Got me giggling again. One thing I notice, some people don't swear but have huge vocabularies and use the most interesting nouns and adjectives!! You do it the best Mud!
Oh Mum. I agree with Mudpuppy and too bad we didn't wait for that juicy post of his eh? Patience. You're so right! When will I ever have enough???
Speaking of paranoid.....do people who behave like N's have a habit of calling others that?
I know I'm paranoid about becoming paranoid. Isn't that the kicker? I mean.....it's so true....I have developed this....watch my back type of attitude...for a number of reasons....the biggest being past experiences with the Nish....(not the Amish)....and well.....to be honest...I still don't feel paranoid....but I do think I'm kinda verging on anti-paranoidness.
:roll:
I feel fear for sure, sometimes, but I don't think it's extreme or unwarrented. Yet the minute I mention a fear or "concern" to those "people" who seem to love to label others, I am told: "You're just paranoid."
So now.....I'm afraid to be too afraid....so I act as fearless as I can, a lot of the time.....whether it's the intelligent thing to do or not.
How weird is that?
GFN
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GFN,
the biggest being past experiences with the Nish....(not the Amish)....
:lol: :lol: :lol:
The funny thing is I'm in CA and have never talked to an Amish in my life, and then today one calls me from Ohio and wants to buy my bulldozer. Co-inkydink? Hmmm.
mud
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Back to Write's original post and the guy with the bent spokes who responded by picking on Write and then GFN. Do you think this guy, by demonstrating his supreme logic and mastery over perfectly harmless women discussing what has helped them recover from the bent spoke crowd was compensating for some, shall we say, deficiency in another area? Maybe he's a little short in the "projection" department if you know what I mean. Maybe it was the great Sam I Am himself.
Let's see if that gets a response.
They don't know what to do if you say that. If they respond then they know they're being manipulated by a lesser being. If they don't then their royal hind end is being disrespected without a response. Its like a scifi flick when the hero says something illogical to the malevolent robot and it gets confused, starts smoking through its ears and shuts down. I've actually done it to my brother, only without the smoke. :wink:
mudpuppy
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Ok, Mud, now I'm howling! What a riot. You have a way of summing it all up succinctly and wittily.
I do not like green eggs and ham, I do not like them, Sam I am!
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It went to that site Write, and I found it interesting to got to.
What I got from it? It seemed to apply to a Borderline Personality Disordered person a heck of a lot.
Sorry if that seems a bit too negative for ya'll here, but that's what I got from it.
B
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Glad to hear I'm not the only one who caught that........either that or we're both paranoid.
Write (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't need that crap.
Is it possible that there are other view points? If not, then I agree, you're both paranoid :D .
B
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mum,
Don't worry about overeacting. I was going to post something a little juicier than you did before I got pulled away. Our antennae go up for a reason. SamV and his minions are notorious for trolling boards and responding to anyone who criticizes the Big Enchilada, and Write certainly did that, at least to an N it was criticism.
Besides, anyone who picks on GFN, who has been very nice to me, is a real pole cat, IMHO. :)
mudpuppy
What kind of self-serving narcissism is that? Anyone who criticises someone who has been nice to you is a pole cat? Is that right?
Per-leez! Get back on the planet earth! Hitler's right hand man said the same thing about anyone who critisiced Hitler (at the time)!
B
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One of my hobbies is collecting assumptions
Back to Write's original post and the guy with the bent spokes who responded by picking on Write and then GFN. Do you think this guy, by demonstrating his supreme logic and mastery over perfectly harmless women discussing what has helped them recover from the bent spoke crowd was compensating for some, shall we say, deficiency in another area? Maybe he's a little short in the "projection" department if you know what I mean. Maybe it was the great Sam I Am himself.
Let's see if that gets a response.
Yes a response: guy? he? perfectly harmless women?
"the female of the species is more deadlier than the male" when there's more than a whiff of sexism in the air...
but this is very immature of me and I recognise that.
Write, it was your opening line that I found questionable. I'm interested to know that you have a fine psychiatrist/psychologist. What a pity the rest of us can't all benefit. Which you point out. So instead we get a website.
I don't react well to statements which seem to attempt to put the writer in a position of superiority over the reader. I tried not to read it as "I have this, which you don't have, so I will bestow this scrap on you mere mortals". Maybe I didn't try hard enough in analysing my reaction. Bad me.
For me it comes back to: would I write something like that? Can I imagine saying that? For openers: "I have a fine psychiatrist...". No I wouldn't. It's boasting. Maybe Write didn't mean it like that, although I'm not sure why you needed to tell us that Write. Especially since you do indeed have this fine psychiatrist and probably know better than the rest of us what impact your words might have. Or maybe your psychiatrist isn't so fine after all. If he or she is so good, why are you here? Simply so that we can benefit from your handouts?
I've had a tough year too and I don't have access to a fine psychiatrist.
http://ceres.ca.gov/tcsf/pathways/chapter12.html#interacting
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Good morning:
Ideally everyone will have acess to a fine psychologist or psycgiatrist as I do, and each time I feel 'stuck' I go back and work through thngs.
But if you can't:
here's what's helped me,my best tools.
I took Write's words to mean that these tools are being posted for the benefit of anyone here who doesn't have a psychologist or psychiatrist to work things through with. I see it as giving and sharing of info.
The fact the Write refer's to Write's psychologist or psychiatrist as "fine", makes me think that Write is happy with this professional and feeling very fortunate, and this makes me wonder if it might be what motivated Write to share the info re the link? Because Write may be empathizing with others who are not as fortunate and Write wishes to share and offer those who are without professional help something that might be of use?
Guest, you wrote: I've had a tough year too and I don't have access to a fine psychiatrist.
Guest, I'm sorry that you have had such a tough year and sorry too that you don't have access to a fine psychiatrist. Do you see that it is possible that Write posted this link to offer you something good? In generosity rather than as a boasting of some sort?
Guest, the link that you posted, is it to boast, or are you genuinely interested in sharing info? Are you making some statement with that link?
Have you ever said anything a bit Nish in your life?
Do you always react perfectly?
Are you here to judge each person's post and their intentions and disect each word?
Or would you like to offer something, share something, give something back to this board that you think has helped you through this past "tough year"?
Are you trying to learn?
Are you possibly overly concerned with everyone using the proper words, rather than concentrating on getting what they are trying to be communicate?
And B: Did you get that Mudpuppy was trying to tell Mum that it's ok to let go and vent once in awhile?
Aren't you doing the same thing? Venting a bit?
B: Are you certain that your opinion is absolutely correct about Mudpuppy and Guest, are you positive about Write's intentions? How do you do that?
GFN
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how can this possibly be boasting? Write is not saying he/she IS a fine psychiatrist, and is even saying that ideally everyone would have one, so is wishing the same for all of us? Your logic is faulty[/quote]
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Sorry, to clarify, that last post wasn't the original Guest, that was me. I am new here and would like to thank Guest for annoying me enough to work up the courage to post! :D
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So instead we get a website.
Okay, so she worded it a bit oddly. If you've read any of her other posts, you'd see that she isn't condescending at all. That's why people here defended her.
Maybe I didn't try hard enough in analysing my reaction. Bad me.
Well it led to a consequence, which was people reacting negatively. You could phrase stuff differently, too, just as perhaps Write could.
BTW I looked at the link and it's written by someone with whom I'm familiar. And I'm sorry to say that he is a huge narcissist. Maybe he wrote something valuable but frankly I can't even read it at this moment.
bunny
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BTW I looked at the link and it's written by someone with whom I'm familiar. And I'm sorry to say that he is a huge narcissist.
bunny you mean the link above? Has he been outed, can I get more information please?
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One of my hobbies is collecting assumptions
My advice is take up another hobby.
Go work on you.
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If you've read any of her other posts, you'd see that she isn't condescending at all.
Bunny that's your opinion. It's not my opinion.
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My advice is take up another hobby.
Go work on you.
I collect and challenge my own assumptions all the time. Are you saying that it is wrong to speak up when I see assumptions being made, even when they're about me? How do you know that by doing this, right now, I'm not working on me?
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Ok, this is spiraling downward. See you all on another thread.
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I am new here and would like to thank Guest for annoying me enough to work up the courage to post!
Hi Sleepyhead! So Guest is helping you to mobilize a little? That's a positive thing, isn't it? :D
Getting up that courage to post is an accomplishment. Why does it seem so scarey? It is though, isn't it? :shock:
Hopefully, you will soon be posting due to other incentives, rather than annoyance. I find many threads generate all kinds of feelings for me. There are lot's to choose from, so that's a good thing too.
Welcome Sleepyhead. :D
GFN
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Mudpuppy:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Projection department indeed! :lol: Patz
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Sorry everyone I am so slow in reading posts but I could not let this little ditty of Mud's pass by! :) Patz
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I don't know if the writer of that link has been 'outed' by others. And I don't want to say more about how I know about him. So you can disregard anything I've said if you want.
bunny
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Thanks bunny. I'll take it that you do know about him and will read that site with a more critical eye, thanks for the info.
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Which site, please?
The one Write posted or the one Guest posted?
Thanks
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How do you know that by doing this, right now, I'm not working on me?
Don't know a thing but my guess is that if you are concentrating on scanning for other people's assumptions about you, then you might not be doing a great job of dealing with your own, an eg. of which is that Write had some negative intention for posting a link.
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OK, I gotta reply to this silliness.
B and guest, or perhaps more accurately B is guest,
What was all that him-her, man-woman stuff in that one post. Gender identity issues? Pretty common with Ns I here.
I am sorry :cry: that Write took the superior position by boasting what a fine therapist she has. We all recognize that you quite rightly occupy that position yourself. Your assumption that she was boasting about herself seems to display N thinking. Perhaps you should add it to your assumption collection.
Your other logic displays a great deal of N thinking. When I called you a pole cat it was because you had unfairly criticized GFN. Perhaps you were busy collecting assumptions during English class, but if you remove the central clause which declares why I appreciate GFN, you find the intent of the sentence; "...anyone who picks on GFN... is a real pole cat." If GFN had never responded to any of my posts your catty remarks would still have a certain stench to them. If the aroma fits, wear it.
You also said "Is it possible there are other viewpoints? If not, then I agree, you are both paranoid" Huh? If there aren't other viewpoints then we are correct and are by definition not paranoid.
There are others, but times a wastin'.
Lets get serious.
These exchanges demonstrate one of the worst traits of Ns; Their utter and complete humorlessness about themselves. If you poke fun at somebody else, they slap you on the back and double over laughing. If while they're still down there you direct the same joke at them, they're instantly bolt upright and the iceman cometh.
Incidentally, when I posed the dilemma they have of whether to respond; they almost always respond, don't they? One of their other worst traits is always having the last word.
And lastly to mum, I thought of another meaning for Sam I Am. I AM is the phrase God used to describe himself in the bible. Sam (substitute N of your choice)=God. Now we're talkin' their language.
Write had the good sense to vacate this thread and so did mum. I propose we leave B and Guest to debate with themselves, or himself or herself or him/herself.
Good day
mudpuppy
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Which site, please?
The one Write posted or the one Guest posted?
Thanks
I was referring to the link posted by the Guest.
bunny
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Thanks again Bunny.
Mudpuppy! 8) 8) 8)
:D :lol: :D :lol:
Yes :!: