Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 06, 2005, 06:54:42 AM
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I think this is a narsissistic comment but I once went to my mother and told her how I felt when I was about 13 and scared because I dissociated for the 1st time, and she thought a minute and said, I'VE never felt that way. I admit I felt very dismissed and ashamed and needless to say spent many years and most of the time hiding how I felt except when it got so bad I had to go to the stupid hospital or something. I don't think she was a very good mother even though she is very sweet and innocent. I hate her. I feel like I have to carry all the damn darkness in this stupid family and everyone is smiling and knitting and doing wholessome things and being sucsessful and they are all just liars and
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THAT WAS ME above, I guess it is a very angry post. Sometimes I think people give birth to you and then you drown and have to revive yourself later when it is safe.
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It's not true that I disassocitaed for the 1st time When I was 13 that was the fourth time sorry.
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Hi Bloopsy,
Are we hearing from Bipsy? Your mom was probably scared by what you told her. She was probably younger than you (inside) and had no idea of what to do, or how to deal with it. This is really poor parenting, because they're supposed to be the adult who helps children. So her answer was a stupid reference to herself. It was narcissistic and immature. She wasn't qualified as a good enough mother, and that was tragic for you.
I hope there are adults like your therapist and sponsor who understand dissociating.
bunny
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I think this is a narsissistic comment but I once went to my mother and told her how I felt when I was about 13 and scared because I dissociated for the 1st time, and she thought a minute and said, I'VE never felt that way. I admit I felt very dismissed and ashamed and needless to say spent many years and most of the time hiding how I felt except when it got so bad I had to go to the stupid hospital or something. I don't think she was a very good mother even though she is very sweet and innocent. I hate her. I feel like I have to carry all the damn darkness in this stupid family and everyone is smiling and knitting and doing wholessome things and being sucsessful and they are all just liars and
Bloopsy, glad to see you posting again. I've been worried about you. Your mother's reaction seems blatantly N to me. You tell her about you and your experience and she basically says "No you're mistaken. I don't feel that way." Its all about her?!?
As for being sweet and innocent. EVERYONE has a dark side. Some people are afraid to be honest and try to hide it. They run from intimacy because if you get too close you'll see its just an act. Real people acknowledge their common dark sides and share with others who do the same. It sounds like your mother was never able to stop protecting herself from reality and just act like a mother to you.
THAT WAS ME above, I guess it is a very angry post. Sometimes I think people give birth to you and then you drown and have to revive yourself later when it is safe.
Bloopsy, you have every right to feel and express your anger. It is welcome here because all of us have experienced feeling angry ourselves and realize that it doesn't make us bad people or "expose our fraud." It makes us human and part of a VERY large club. :)
As painful and terrifying as it must be for you, I'm glad that the little you (Bipsy?) found a way to save your life by dissociating from feeling overwhelmed. I'm also glad that she trusts you (adult you) enough now to start letting you be aware of the pain again so you can deal with it. What an amazing kid!
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Thank you Bunny and longtire you guys are really helping me to validate my feeling at least as much as I can yet. I have a sponsor but I admit that I am a little doubtful of her........I feel like for me she is a little too involved with her exterior as a recovered alchoholic, but what bothers me the most is that she said to me that god give you good things when you deserve them. To me that sounds sick twisted and cruel and it makes me very angry and want to slap her. I don't know if I am taking it in the wrong way. I asked another woman in AA and she says that she believes that too. I start to think that they are a little arrogant. But I am giving them a chance. However I feel like no one has the damn right to tell me such a load of baloney or tell another person about god. Where do they get off?????????? It is just as bad as this other craphead invading my space and railing at me about how god didn't exist and I shouldn't believe in him just because of all the religious white man baloney out there. To me that's like saying that just because there is fast food that you should not believe in food. But I at least respect that he feels that way and tried to say that that was just something we should not talk about which of course just made him rail about it more the idiot. Yes this is Bipsy but I would rather be called firestorm because that is how I feel myself to be. Do you guys think that god gives you good things because you deserve them??? I don't understand.
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I admit that I always felt like I deserved bad things. Maybe I am angry because I think God hates me????????? Sometimes that is how i feel. This woman my sponsor seemed very scarey when she said god gives you good things because you deserve them. i think that I am miisssing her point because all I could think of is that that must be hoier than though ground to stand on and that does god give you bad things cuz you deserve them which seems to me to collerate w=ith what she said and the people who I talked to seemed to be a little shocked that i did not think that god gives you good things when you deserve them, I really think that god shows you what you are ready for good or bad.
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and I am really only calling god him because I am being dishonest( suprise) and it is scary for me to admit that I don't think god id a man.
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Bloopsy and firestorm,
I can only tell you about my conception of God, which is admittedly pretty new. I think that the English language is very limited. We can call things either he, she, they, or it. None of these fits God for me, though I default to using "he" since it is the most common usage. I don't think of God as male or female, but being above both. I say if it helps you to think of God as female and mother rather than father then do that. You have your own personal experience and relationship with God and nobody, not even a pastor or preacher can tell you otherwise.
My understanding is that God is like a GOOD parent, who wants all good things for his/her children. God gives us gifts NOT because we deserve them in any way, but because "he" wants us to have all the good stuff in life. I very much disagree that we get these gifts because or when we deserve them by being perfect. If that were the case none of us would get much of anything good, ever.
My experience is that there was a lot of time in my life where I wasn't able to ACCEPT these gifts, hear God speaking, or be open to seeing what good things I already had. This may have been what these people were trying to say to you, but as an INTJ I take exception with their imprecise, incorrect wording. :) Bloopsy, you deserve every good thing possible in life already, just for existing. God doesn't give bad things, but people often try, and succeed, in putting their "bad" feelings into others instead of dealing with it themselves, as God intends.
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Thank you longtire, your posts are so thoughtful and helpful and kind. I hopr that you are doing alright and feeling better most espially, I know you have been having a hard time too and working hard at it. Go longtire,
Love Bridget
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God is not a male or a female. Nor does God hate you or anyone else, He loves every one of his creations. We have learned to hate each other. Tell your friend that God does not give people good things because they deserve them. Everyone knows very bad people with a lot of good things. And everyone knows a lot of good people like you who have been given bad things. Those bad things are from evil people doing evil things, not from God. The bible says the rain falls on the just and the unjust alike. Bad things happen to good people all the time because there is evil in the world.
but what bothers me the most is that she said to me that god give you good things when you deserve them. To me that sounds sick twisted and cruel and it makes me very angry and want to slap her.
It should make you angry because its not true. But don't slap her.
Next time your friend tells you that, ask her what good thing Jesus received for leading the perfect life. Being beaten and crucified? Is she better than Christ?
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what bothers me the most is that she said to me that god give you good things when you deserve them. To me that sounds sick twisted and cruel and it makes me very angry and want to slap her. I don't know if I am taking it in the wrong way. I asked another woman in AA and she says that she believes that too. I start to think that they are a little arrogant. But I am giving them a chance.
It's nice of you to give them a chance. To me it sounds like they are saying something pretty stupid. That's how I hear it. God gives us good things when we deserve them? How about all the horrible people and dictators with good things they don't deserve? It makes no sense to me - I don't know what they're talking about. So I can understand how it made you feel like a firestorm.
bunny
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I have to stop thinking that the people in my life will care anout what happened to me. I feel like I just need to go away and start a new life. I feel like a non person because I expect other people to somehow be different from how they are and I guess be emotionally available enough to be compassionate about this. I sense that the family and friends(4) that I have told either didn't care or were protecting themselves big time. Sometimes I don't realize that maybe what happened to me is just kind of damn unspeakable and I just can't go around saying it because I need to be validated and have an eneasy awareness of what is and is not appropriate to tell others. I have never felt this closed off fromm my friends and family. I feel like I have to go away and die. But that is what my dad did. Why do I always have to follow him????What an idiot.
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Hi I am back again up late at night, I guess I feel like I confess that I thought and feel that intaimacy is emotionalt and physical torture and that is why I need to escape not because I am a bad person but because my heart and body and mind and everything else is just tired of that. I thought that when my head started spinning and I had to hold on for dear life that that meant I was close to the other person and often I would berate myself for being unable to sustain such a state without getting angry. When people were not overwelming me with themselves I felt like they were holding back. I thought I had to protect other people from myself but I guess I just want to protect myself from them.
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By the way that was me Bloopsy although I will now change my name to Shadow, isn't that a pretty name???????
Anyway, you guys are very sweet. I feel like I am finally coming to trust this board. Thank you so much. It is nice to just say what is on my mind and stuff --- I know I sound kind of confused, I shave all these different parts in me that want to say different things . It is so nice for Firestorm(Bipsy) to have a place where she can let her anger out. I will always have these different parts. I will honor them or come to honor them as the way i lived. But anyway I just wanted to say thank you to you all and that I am sorry I complained about people not caring about me I was not focusing on the ones who do.
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Hi Bloopsy / shadow,
When parents abuse their children as tragically as yours did, it puts the child into an impossible situation. If they want to get close to someone, they're afraid that person will exploit and use them. Or engulf them with their own stuff. Or be terrified and withdraw from them if they hear traumatic stories. But if they keep quiet and please others, they feel abandoned and neglected. It's really hard to find a space where there is enough closeness and enough safe distance. I guess that's what therapy (with a good therapist) can help. I'm sorry you had a bad therapist before and hopefully that's not the person you're now seeing.
bunny
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. It's really hard to find a space where there is enough closeness and enough safe distance. bunny[/quote]
I really like how you say "safe distance". That is so much more managable than just going away from everyone and everything. I knew there was something wrong with that approah. I can be such an extremist!!!!!! But I was dealing with extreme things when I learned the way to be, I suppose. I feel like I finally SORT of understand what my therapist says when she is like, it's not happening now, or those are old feelings. Actually I understand it pretty well. What a ripoff!!!!!!!!!!! Being that way robs you of everything----woops!
By the way I did two good things for myself today which were going to accupuncture and calling a woman from AA. Also I ate a healthy peice of pizza.
I admit that when I start speking with my real voice I get very scared and shut down, and start talking in this appeasing false tone. I feel so icky about that. But I am going to just tell myself that I must still need it.
Thanks for listening you guys. Love,
??????????/
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Bloopsy, no need to shut down...whatever voice you use, it's appealing and beautiful. I am glad to hear you.
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Thank you so much for saying that mum. I feel like I am so happy ina little place. And all the butterflies will fly again. I realized that I treat myself just the way my mom does, as if I don't exist. Writing this has been so helpful to me. Wow. I am always suprised when I am hurt by things just like she is suprised. I have expected myself to eat a lot of crap and feel alright anyway. When my body shut down I was like I'll have to stop feeding it crap but I didn't know if I could stop.
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Bloopsy:
I am always conscience of the fact that when I use my own experiences, I worry that I am coming across as a self-absorbed individual. The experiences you relate are very compelling. I also was put in an impossible situation as a child. It is very hard to come to gripes with the fact you were the "parent" to your mother and father and as a child you were invisible. Only in the past 2-3 years have I felt that there was no one to turn to. I constantly berated myself for not being able to do this or be like that. Then it occurred to me to look at things in 5 year segments of time. As in: where was I emotionally or anywhere else for that matter 5 years ago then compare to where I am today. I can say I have made progress in coming to terms with what happened.
I think the recognition of being "invisible" is the hardest part of it all for me. I would rather just tell me they no longer want me around, or to associate with me than being just indifferent. The indifference from people you don't know is acceptable because there is no history or emotional connection. With your family it is different. They are supposed to care, to nuture to do all those things as parents........only to wake up to the fact you were the parent and things were done at your expense. I can only remember "childhood" experiences in the context of living with my grandparents........this was the only time I was not responsible for an adult when I was a child. It really makes it hard in allowing yourself and not being hard on yourself as an individual with the "shoulds" and "could haves". We were not allowed to have our feelings, nor were our feelings as children acknowledged. Mine were completely ignored or beaten down. To get "in touch" with those feelings is hard when you were not shown the appropriate emotional feedback from your parents. It makes hard to know how and when to respond to people.
I can remember when I was about 13 my father wanted me to visit his mother, my grandmother, on her farm. She was a cold person and only wanted me there to help on her farm and also get me out of his way during the summer. This happened on an Easter Sunday over at my Aunt's house. He told me this in front of all my family he wanted me to go up there for about 3 weeks. I did not want to leave my mother as I was the "parent" to her. This farm was in the middle of no where, there were a couple of children to play with but not much else. When I told my father in front of my family I wanted to stay home, well a big fight ensued with the whole family. As we were walking out to the car, he informed me "well, your going up to visit your grandma whether you like it or not." I began to cry. ( A big argument had started with his entire family after I made the statement I did not want to go.) He then stated to me as I was crying " I don't want to hear that kind of crap out of you, you have ruined everything to day." He then gave me cold, slient treatment for about a week. I ended up going to my grandmother's. I shucked corn for her in 90 degree heat on the farm and did other kinds of chores. I was there to serve her and not for a visit. It also just dawned on me as I was writing this my brothers were not required to go for summers on the farm. My father made no secret he thought "women were of no use" and he always patronized my brothers. He was very put out that I was a girl and not a boy when I was born. He told mother how disappointed he was.
It was a terrific way to start out life with a narc. Patz
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I was the parent to her she would not shut up ever she never saw me what a bitch no wonder I hate her and I am suspicious of her and she just keeps on going but I can't take it anymore only god can help me I can't contro how horrible it was I don't have any excuse just the way I feel and I feel overwelmed by her presence and I feel that she is emotionally cold and was never there for me. But she always seemd like such a good mother and would build ginger bread houses but ut was not for us it was for her to have her fantasy world for herself. When anything gets real she shut down like I do. She plays the martyr and she never looked out for me always let bad people around me I feel as if she was so easygoing I do that too. It is just stupidity and not caring and arrogance. I was never considered. When I went to jsil to get away from her mean boyfriend she was only worried about how it looked that I may have a felony on my record and not be able to go to college. We never spoke of ot. I was being abused by some fuckhead and told her a little of it and she asked for the first time in my life is he being nice to you bridget I was suprised people don't ask me things like that especially not her. When my cousin treated me like a piece of shit and I was angry and didn't want to be around him she was just upset because it might make trouble for her. Whart does she care if I am treated like a piece of shit. I wanted to comfort her and tell her she was a good mother. I thought that she cared and might be feeling bad that she did not protect her girls. I had an inkling to myself Shadow(Bridget at the time) she didn't wake up the time before I told her about the babysitters people don't just change, but I asked her are you feeling alright mommy and she looked at me I caught defense in her eyes she said I'm feeling good. How can she feel good after what i told her doesn't she have a heart for her kids I guess her defense against me is so high she didn't even give me a hug when I told her she just sat there and said that she guessed that he had been a different man than she thought he was I am so tired of trying to please her and waiting for her to love me and feeling guilty and alone that she doesn't love me. I feel like where is my mommy. I thought that she was someone else. I had to be someone else for her. How can I stop and be for myself. I live with her and i am so afraid. I just zone out. She had a part in it. I am tired of listening to crap that she was a good mother. No wonder I was so angry that my friend said poor your mother that I was feeling so bad. Whatev. She should have protected me and then maybe I would have been golden but I am not I am grey and it is all her fault so she can just stop want ing me to be nice and sweet and good. I don't care for her. I love her but I don't like her just like she ssaid to me when I was little. She cann't reach me ever ever ever she is a mirage I don;t have to listen to her and her bullshit anymore or for that matter anyone's bullshit she can just stop expecting me to go back to being her good little girl maybe she should have been kind to me and then I would have been able to be a good girll.
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((((((Shadow))))))
You ARE GOLDEN! Your mother put some grey-tinted shades on you is all, so that you wouldn't see how wonderful you truly are! You deserve more, you are worth more, and I am crying the tears for you that your mother never cried.
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Thank you guys for your support. i don't think I would have made it without you guys. Thank you. i have told my mom that I think we should stay really separate for now. It feels like getting out of a RELATIONSHIP. Whatev. I feel like she needs me to protect her. But I got that feeling that I get when I feel like I have to get away from a person usualoly I deny it and it just gets worse. This time I have decided to honor my feelings. It is hard because we are very enmeshed and I have not learned how to take care of myself yet. I have been hiding away in the house for years. Whatev to that. It is hard not to beat myself up over all the things I don't know how to do yet on my own. But I felt like I had to keep up my facade for her and when that happens all energy for myself goes out of me. I am not trying to hurt her but I am very angry and realized that I was making a mess in the house to punish her and then it was really hard to clean it up. I think a lot of my behavior is out of anger. I got in touch with my feelings when I was hiding in my bed and I was seething with anger. I hope this is not too scary. I don't want to keep o n feeding the viscious cycle. I think I use her not to face reality----that is over. I don't have the strength. I hope this has not exposed me to be the horrible person that I feel like I am. I will post it anyway. I am really not a bad person just very angry.
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You are not a bad person. It does not make you a bad person to realize your "reality" and to feel it. Just lean "into" the pain you are feeling and work through it. You are not a bad person to have your life and to want your life a certain way. Limit setting is hard when the person is your mother, but you must set the boundaries. Boundaries where she ends and your self starts. Patz
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Shadow: you are absolutely NOT a bad person. YOU are beautiful. You have layers of a sad story to peel off, that's all.
Patz: I think I know how you feel about posting your experience, I sometimes feel the same way....but telling stories is how we communicate with examples, and what better examples to share, really share, than the ones that are in our hearts and our history. It's a way of telling each other we are together.......I am glad, always to hear your perspective.
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Thanks guys. Talking about things and being not judged as a bad person or rejected as exaggerating feels a lot better than those other ways. I admit to being very scared and I know that my inner thirteen year old is directing a lot of my behavior now, her name is Rose, and she thinks that she deserves to be punished. She felt relieved when she found that man who also told us that we deserve to be punished and that he would control us. She had always wished to find someone that would punish her. I am just telling her that she doesn't deserve to be punished and trying not to smoke so much. Trying to find some leverage?????? What???/ What to do, I know that I can't keep on living this way with Rose in charge of my behavior-----she has just been so hurt that she wants to die. It is not her fault. It is very scary. It is so hard to stop hiding and doing those things that keep me hidden, which right now are smoking, drinking coffe and looking at the computer and telivision. A lot of the things I look at I don't even like!!!! But it doesn't matter because I am just doing it to stay numb. I am sorry to go on and on about myself like this, it feels pretty pathological. But I think it is helping me to get a little more grounded???And I fele like I have someplace to go. But anyway thanks for your stories and support. Thank you for telling me I am not a bad person. On the other hand I admit that I was wondering to myself that maybe the issue is not being a bad person or not when you are hanging at the edge of survival, and I admit that I got pretty angry at myself for still worrying that I am a bad person when I feel like I am dying/struggling for breath. What am I trying to prove? I don't know. Thank you for listening.
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smoking, drinking coffe and looking at the computer and telivision. A lot of the things I look at I don't even like!!!!
So many things are worse than those. It's okay to do those things. Well -ciggies are harmful. Better not to do them but they are the most difficult addiction. Worse than hard illegal drugs. Don't beat yourself up about them though.
Positives: you know what you don't like. You know what you like. That makes you a healthier person. Good!
You can talk about yourself as much as you want.
I got pretty angry at myself for still worrying that I am a bad person when I feel like I am dying/struggling for breath. What am I trying to prove?
You know there's a creative, vibrant 'you' inside that wants to break out, maybe that's the anger. Is Shadow the new you? Is she waiting in the shadow to step forward into the sun?
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Shadow, do whatever non-hurtful things you need to do to survive. I know you're not bad. I'm not sure you really know it yet in all parts of you. I'm sorry you feel so bad right now. The way out IS through feeling it and letting it go. Just don't go too fast. Praying for you to find peace.
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Hi Shaddow:
I've been reading along here and not saying much because sometimes I feel like I just don't know what to say and if I try..I might put my foot...or both feet in my mouth. :D
But....I'm going to try anyway...because I just want you to know that I am caring for you in my thoughts and my prayers and that you are very wrong about something:
You are wrong about being a bad person.....you are not.
I've been around enough bad people to tell and you...are definately not like that.
How to convince you? Help you change your mind? :?:
Welll....that's not up to me and I know I can't do it even if I tried.
But I am making this bold statement, which I believe is true, and which other people here believe is true too because they've stated similar things...
You are a good person who has lived through some very bad experiences.
You are here....trying to sort it out....like many of us and you are welcome to keep doing that. There's nothing bad about that or you.
I'm so glad you feel like you have some place (this board) to go. (I think that is what you meant???).
Yes...you do have some place to go. And you are welcome and especially welcome to talk as much about yourself and your feelings and tell us whatever you need to. I don't mind. I don't think other people do either.
It helps you to feel more grounded? I'm glad!!! Good!!! That's a step forward, isn't it? Good for you!
What are you trying to prove?
I don't think you are trying to prove anything. A dying person who is stuggling for breath is not bad. You are not bad to feel like that. You are good. It's the bad things that happened that are coming to your mind and then you feel like that. Am I right?
What if the next bad thought that comes to your mind......what if you decide.....ahead of time......to reject it???
As soon as that bad thought comes.....you say to yourself (even if you have to do so out loud)......No Way!!!
And what then......if you have a plan......a good thought......that you plan ahead to think about when you reject the bad one? Something that helps you to feel nice.....a thought about your favorite anything......or one time that you enjoyed yourself......or anything that is good and even the words...."I am a good person".
Do you think you can try this? The reason I'm asking you to do that is because I'm getting the feeling that you are getting tired. Are you?
This rejecting of the next bad thought......and thinking of something good instead......and trying to keep repeating that......will help you feel less tired, more alive, less numb, possibly a lot better soon. You can still deal with past issues....but thinking you are bad....instead of those past experiences as being bad.....is not helping you.
Will you try it?
Big hug to you (((((((Shaddow))))))).
GFN
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Hi Bloopsy / Shadow / Rose,
Some thoughts off the top of my head...when Rose wants to be punished, that might be a teenager's way of saying she needs someone to set limits with her. She may confuse limits with being bad. She may wish the person who's punishing her will actually realize not to do it. She may also think that a person who has been abused needs punishment to feel "real" because she dissociates. I hope Rose can learn less painful ways to feel real but it might take some other helpful friends and her therapist to encourage her.
bunny
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I am going to try both of your suggestions. It is true that I am getting tired. I have Rose surrounded by a pink light right now. Thank you. Thank you for hearing me. Rose is nodding her head about the thing you said about limits bunny. GFN thank you for hearing that I am getting tired. I am. I have been trying to get away from these voices for a long time. I am goi ng to try both of your suggestions.
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Yay!!! Good for you! :D
Keep trying. Try again tomorrow too. Sooner or later you will start to feel better.
I hope you will be able to talk to the therapist soon, as Bunny suggested. It will help too!
Have a sweet dream tonight!!
GFN