Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: FlowerGirl on March 12, 2005, 12:50:25 PM
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Dear All,
As I learn more about the world of N, I have been reading alot. I am midway through "Prisoners of Childhood", which is a chilling book with some incredibly poignant descriptions.
As I read, I keep tripping over the same fear - Could I be an N too? Those of us who were raised by N's do have the sorts of experiences that would lead us to become Ns. And sometimes those descriptions resonate - the depression, the inability to express the true self, the delusions of grandeur (I think I'm doing pretty well in coping, I think I'm a good person)... I am increasingly terrified that I might be just as bad!
What if I am just as "unlikely to change" as all the horrible Ns in our lives? And, I ask this quite rationally - not in seeking validation (which would be too painfully ironic)... how do you know if you are "one of them"??
--FlowerGirl
p.s. Having trouble with the system. Sorry if this turns out to be a re-post
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Can you recognize that sometimes you do something wrong? When you do recognize are you able to honestly apologize? If you can do this I truly doubt you are a person suffering from NPD.
LM
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LM,
Hmm. Sure. I mean, if anything, I think I apologize too much - but Ma trained me well to do that.
But am i apologizing because I want people to still like me? deep down? I'm not sure. And do I miss things I do wrong - and walk around unaware? Sure. And do I blame that other person for what may have been my fault? (stupid drivers can't use their signal.. frickin'... idiots).. Sure. I try to check myself - but honestly, I do.
--FG
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FG,
If you are asking yourself those questions, then I truly doubt you have NPD. Questioning yourself and questioning your motives is not something I see someone with NPD doing.
LM
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Hi Flowergirl
I seriously doubt that you are a N. You wouldn't be here if you were.
:wink:
I wish you the best.
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FlowerGirl,
You are so right about the Alice Miller book. It's extremely intense and painful. You described it really well as "poignant and chilling." I haven't read it in years because I literally can't face it. Too upsetting.
Anyway, no. You aren't like the people she's describing. The people she's talking about are really pathological and cruel.
I don't think having grandiose ideas and getting mad at people on the road is that big a deal (gee, I wonder why - could I do the same things?? :roll: )
don't worry...
bunny
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Bunny and all...
Sure - I can see what you mean. those people are really horrible ... but on the other hand, none of them *think* they are horrible. They think they are wonderful and nice and sweet. And we think we're nice too. So, really, you need some third party with a brutally honest evaluation to tell you whether you're nice and sweet, or whether you're really horrible. And then you have to believe them. Either way. (and I suspect i'd find it hard to believe them, either way!)
anyways... perhaps I'll set Alice aside for a while. Maybe she's just a wee bit too ... er... much.
--FG
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Oh Flowergirl -- there is a difference, thank goodness.
We think the other folks here are nice, and sweet, and kind, and good, and gentle, and seeking truth and healing.
And the other folks here think that about us, and reach out strong hands to lift us up. And we do the same for them.
You'll never find that kind of mutuality, that kind of community, that kind of empathy, in a cluster of Ns. They can't fake it well enough for long enough.
Alice Miller gets to me, too. There are just some folks it's too painful to read. Maybe Erich Fromm would help a bit more. He saw clearly but not despairingly...
(((FlowerGirl)))
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So, really, you need some third party with a brutally honest evaluation to tell you whether you're nice and sweet, or whether you're really horrible. And then you have to believe them. Either way. (and I suspect i'd find it hard to believe them, either way!)
You aren't really horrible. And I'm being brutally honest here!
bunny
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hmm. it makes sense. I'm not entirely convinced... just because - and I am sure you all have experienced it - the capacity for self-delusion is tremendous. Still, you have eased my mind... and I'm grateful.
i think alice better go back to the library soon. i'd like to think the psychology field has progressed some in its bluntness over the past few decades...
--FG
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Flowergirl,
This seems to be an ongoing fear among those of us who have been touched (or trampled on) by N personalities.
It is healthy to have some N traits to maintain a good sense of self-esteem, confidence, ability to deal with different personality traits within the work place, home or whatever. Some folks have an N personality type which is not necessarily a bad thing. But it all depends on how it affects other people and the way you treat them. You don't have to have full-blown NPD to be destructive, but some traits need to be present to have it be harmful. However, if you have NPD, I don't believe you question it. You would live in a world where everyone else is at fault and responsible for keeping you happy.
I have not read Alice Miller and from the description, I don't think I want to. Flowergirl, look into your heart and sense what you feel there. As GFN once stated, and I'm paraphrasing as I don't have the quote at hand-- if there is any one of us who is not guilty of N behavior every now and then, then stand up and show yourself because you are PERFECT.
As I have read back over this, I'm not sure it makes sense, even to me (now its happening to me, Mum), but I'll be brave and hit the submit button in hopes that someone might get something out of it.
Brigid
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Clear as a bell, Brigid! At least to me! I hold out hope that if I am at least considering I could be behaving like an N, then I can choose another way, or at least my awareness keeps me out of the catagory (that and the fact that N's still attack!)
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Brigid,
Thanks! okay - that makes sense. i think Alice doesn't do anything to differentiate between good and bad n traits - healthy n and unhealthy n. but what you say makes sense to me.... and has eased my concern.
Thank you - and thank you all!
--FlowerGirl
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Flowergirl:
N's do not have the ability for introspection, much less the ability to ask questions.........all of which you are doing. You are not an N. Patz
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And sometimes those descriptions resonate - the depression, the inability to express the true self, the delusions of grandeur (I think I'm doing pretty well in coping, I think I'm a good person)...
Dear Flowergirl: This is not grandiose thinking! If you thought that you were coping better than anyone has ever done, and that you are the best person to have ever walked the earth, in fact you are a saint, or maybe closer to an angel... Maybe you are the new messiah! Then I would start to get worried about you, but then you wouldn't be here questioning your behaviour, would you? To make you feel better, I admit to sometimes even having the grandiose ideas I gave above, but I always start laughing at myself a second later, when I realize how ridiculous I sound (yes, even to myself). I don't think I'm an N, but I know that I have picked up some bad habits along he way, I have managed to change the ones I'm aware of, but I will probably discover more of them in the future (I hope I continue to grow as a person for the rest of my life). I also think that for us children of N's it's easy to think that even a lower than normal level of selfesteem is too much, because our scale is completely off, and we tend to see things in black and white. Screamer gave me some great advice on the thread titled "newcomer", which you may want to take a look at.
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Hi Flowergirl
i think alice better go back to the library soon.
You're changing your mind because of what folks here said? That's not very N is it? :D Ns think they know best about everything!
Have you tried any books on the recommended list here? (I don't know if that Miller is on it)
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Sleepyhead:
but I always start laughing at myself a second later
another sure-sign that you ain't one o' them!
Ns can't ever laugh at themselves and mean it. They usually don't even get the joke.
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Flowergirl:
I have to second what Portia stated. N's do not have the ability to laugh at themselves. In fact to laugh at an N and their antics, this invites petulance, pouting, saracasm etc on their part. The fact anyone would laugh at them, well this is the heights of an insult.
We have a guy that comes in where I work part time. All he needs to do is emblazon across his tee shirt "I"m an N". Such an important person, he cannot talk to you because HE is on an important call on the cell phone. He has to be waited on because He is sooooo busy, because he is important. If not waited on as he desires, makes snide remarks. Such an N. Flower do you have any of these kind of notions of who you are and what your about? You are not an N by any stretch of the imagination. Patz