Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: (Dre) on March 16, 2005, 08:19:07 PM
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:evil:
I am having a bad day. I am having a bad week. I am going thru an emotional whirlwind on top of PMS. I don't want to get out of bed this week. I don't want to talk to family or friends. I feel bitter, angry, and could throw a cupboard full of glasses against the wall today. I wish I had signed up for kickboxing at the gym.
I know I am better off without the idiot, but why am I so sad? I cried myself to sleep last night. I feel like I am losing my mind. I feel like an even bigger loser without him than with him. I gained 5 lbs back I fought hard to lose. I started smoking again. I haven't been to the gym in over a week?
Why is this happening now? A delayed reaction?
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Hi Dre
I can relate... and I'm glad that even though you dont want to talk to anybody you came here to talk to us.
It comes in waves. October and mum --I think -- were talking about this - how anger or grief aren't just a one time thing, they recur and recur, things trigger them again and again, so the best way to tell if you are healing is if the feelings are less intense or don't last as long.
Don't expect them to diminish this soon.
Plus there is a bug going around and a lot of people where I live don't get sick enough to take off work, but get really cranky and bent out of shape for several days, so if that's happening to you on top of this, you'll have your hands full. Baby yourself a little; you can go to the gym next week.
(((Dre))) hope this helps, it's meant to, ignore it if it doesn't, but know you're not alone and folks noticed your post...
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Dre: I'm sorry your day is stinking! I'm not having a poopy day, but I certainly have had them...and most likely will again. It is true, that how long it lasts does change. I have learned that pain will never be GONE as long as we are alive....but hanging on to it truely is optional.
I'm working on making pain as useful to me as possible, and dumping it when I have figured it out what it is trying to tell me, or when I just get sick of it! Sometimes I just can't figure out why I feel bad.... I told my sister the other day, that I though not giving a sh** has great merit. And I am finding, that not trying to figure things out may be THE way out....at least I'm willing to try not trying (I'm tired).
Give yourself a break...go ahead and be mad. Feel it entirely. And when you are done doing it....you'll move on. It's ok. Everyday is not going to be like this one.
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Hi Dre,
I'm sorry you are having a bad day. Grief is incredibly powerful. I picture grief as a wave. At first, when the grief is intense, it feels like the wave slams into me and knocks me off my feet. Functioning as a "normal" human can feel overwhelming. But, after a while, the waves roll in and I can stand. I'm sure you've heard that holidays can be very tough for a while. I just experienced a painful wave of grief on my N Mom's birthday.
I read a great book on grief called, "Life is Hello Life is Goodbye". Acutally, I get all the help I can get, 12 steps, counseling - whatever it takes. I've got kids and want to give them as healthy a foundation as possible. Besides, I believe that after this season is over life will actually start to feel good on a pretty regular basis. Imagine that :?:
Here's the lesson I learned from this past wave of grief - take what you like and leave the rest - I learned that I'm not bad just because I'm in pain. My pain is trying to tell me something and I need to listen and learn. I'm much too impatient with myself to "get over it". I"ll always be a mixed bag and that's alright.
I wish you the best. Take good care of yourself - you deserve it!
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Like the others have said here, it goes in cycles. Some days are hell, some are ok, and hopefully some are heaven. Be proud of your strength in leaving him. Have sympathy for yourself in missing him. Come here to vent. Find your own ways to feel better, wether it's reading a good book, investing in a punching bag or doing a picture-search on google on the word kitten. Hope you feel better soon, take care and now that we are here and listening.
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(dre),
Like all the others have said, this grief process stinks, but you must get through it to heal. The analogy of waves is the best I think. Initially it feels like you've been hit by a Tsumani with a ton of destruction and many months of reconstruction. Over time those waves get smaller and smaller and the destruction and reconstruction is minimal.
Allow yourself to feel it. Don't try to cover it up or ignore it as that will just prolong the process. Its OK to hurt, have bad days, feel sorry for yourself and all the rest. It will get better. You will want to get back to the gym, quit smoking again and lose those lbs if that's important to you. Eventually the control he has will shift back to you and you will start making decisions based on what you want, not what he would have wanted.
We're here for you so come and chat whenever the mood strikes. Think of the most fun or decadent thing you can do for yourself and indulge. You deserve it. :wink:
Brigid
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(Dre), great built in hug! I agree with Brigid. I'm grateful that I have waves in my life now. That means there will be sometimes when the water pulls back and I can move and "breathe." For a lot of my life, there was just a neverending flood of water, always over my head. So, this seems like progress to me. I still have a really, really hard time remembering that when the water goes over my head again. It gets a tiny bit better each time it happens, though. Posting here and getting support helps a lot. Hang in there.
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Dre - I can imagine what you're going through. I still have days where I cry for my ex. The thing I try and remember is that I am not grieving the man he was, but the man I thought he was. That makes a huge difference. I also try telling myself that there are other men out there that have all the good bits (the bits that make you cry when it hurts so much to miss them) but don't have all the bad bits. I literally have a list on my wall of bad things he did so that I can remember how bad he used to make me feel. All you can do is try the same things (or a version of which work for you) and day by day it gets a little easier. Or at least a little more distant.
Just focus on yourself and getting through this. Poopy days will happen, but they wll happen less. You will heal. Good luck and hugs to you!
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Dear Dre,
I'm sending you a big hug. Have faith that you are doing the right thing. It hurts so much, but if you didn't go through the pain now, you would have to go through it at some time in the future,and maybe (altho it's hard to believe) maybe it would be even worse by then.
Be proud of yourself for what you are doing. It is so tough getting out of this kind of relationship, but there you are, battling on through it.You are a strong person.
Keep going;have faith that all things pass,including these feelings.
Be kind to yourself,as if you were your own loving friend.If it helps,post about how you are feeling;there are many people here who are rooting for you.
Sincerely,
Lara.
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Lara's right, Dre. It will only get worse. I look back at the opportunities I missed to save myself....oh boy. And then I remember that I could still be married to him. uggggh. :x
Hang in there. There will be more and more better days.
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Hi Dre:
I'm sorry too for the poopy way you feel right now but .....at least.....it won't last forever. It just won't. And good for you for posting for support because you need it right now and there are many people rooting for ya.
I know I am better off without the idiot, but why am I so sad?
Maybe you're sad because you know you are better off without the idiot?
It's sad to realize he's an idiot. It's sad to realize that you are better of without him when you really wanted things to be different. It's sad to let go of what you wanted and it's sad to realize that you have to let it go.
It's also ok to be sad. You have sustained a loss. You are entitled to feel that loss. No matter how crappy the relationship.....the loss of it is still a loss.
Soon the sun will shine for you again. That's sound so sappy doesn't it? But it is true. Soon you will be saying this exact thing to some other poster....someone who is in the same kind of pain you are in now.....someone you will empathize with and want to offer support to.
Lean on us Dre. It's ok.
GFN
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im sorry about your bad day..I am having a bad day,bad week,and have been having a bad month!!
Im trying to figure out why im hanging on to something sick,and i have figured out,its making me sick.
I think its hard to let go of what we ""thought"' was real...and we come to see that all there is and has been is pain and distruption in our lives. I think ((this is my opinion) that we may even become addicted to the drama and the pain that comes daliy into our lives by N's.
I myself am still in an on-going realtonship with my N.I seem to get out,only to get back in. he has moments when he is kind,so of course i cling to these momets. (But the coldness,the deatchment,NO intimacy, whatsover,and the constant put downs,the manic times make it feel like im caught in a black hole)
I have known for some time he is an N I found years ago he fit the profile for a commitment Phobbic man,later as i read more and more,i realized he is a classic N. I am broke (he has taken/spent all the money I saved) I work three jobs now to take care of myself and family.(They are NOT his kids,thank God) He has never given me any help at all. I have moved three times and he never once lifted a hand to help me.But would call up screaming if i forgot to pay his phone bill!
I was raised by a N Mother(who i took cxare of,and treated as if she was a small child,when i was a child!)---and the list goes on and on.
I will pray for you. Bad days do turn into good days
Hang on. You have been with someone who is sick and they have made you sick.
He wanted you to feel and be his pain.You have been that.
Be kind to yourself. You gave ,he took This board has been wonderful. To read or to post.
take care
blue~
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Dear Blue:
I am very sorry for your having a bad day, a bad week, a bad month and that you are still involved in this bad relationship. It's so hard to quit, as you say, it becomes like a habit.
Maybe you could start by doing something kind of small and simple?
Maybe take your own words to heart:
Be kind to yourself.
in small ways.
Jeepers! Working 3 jobs has got to be tough! Is there a way to spend a little time pampering yourself inbetween somehow?
A warm bubble bath, maybe? Read a good book? Write your dreams in a journal? Spend time with a friend that you enjoy? Do things you like?
Any little thing that will help you to be kind to yourself?
You are not nearly as sick as you think, I bet. You are aware of the pain and the fact that you keep getting out and then back into this relationship that isn't working for you. That is a sign that you are getting better, at least.
To use Dr. Phil's idea: What is the pay off to staying in this relationship?
Maybe, once you figure that out, you'll be able to substitute the pay off with other pay offs, to yourself, for yourself, to be kind to yourself? Pay offs that will make your life much happier and healthier?
Keep reading and posting Blue. It will help you to take those little steps.
(((((((((Blue)))))))))
GFN
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Dear Blue,
I believe that altho you haven't been able to break away from this man yet, that day by day you are growing in awareness and in strength.You may not feel this happening, but from my own experience I really know that this takes place, until one day you will find that you have amassed enough strength to do what you need to do.
Trust me on this please;this day will come for you, as it has done for other people here,who believed that they would be 'prisoners' for ever.
Please let us know how you're doing.
Take care,
Sincerely,
Lara.
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Thaks for your replys. I am coming back from work. Tired and this board helps me thorugh another tough day,
I am trying very hard to find time for me
I do take bubble baths. have my pet parrot (who is my best crying buddy!) and i have my daughter.
Last night N sent me an e-mail me (because he knows i am distancing myself) and tells me he will bring me a very nice lunch at work,especially for me... ..so i pospone my usall time spot and guess what when i call him... (because i do not hear from him ) he is on the phone (for two hours) with his friend! He then says ..well i cant bring lunch now im on the phone!!! Then hangs up in my ear! If i were to say what happen to lunch. He would say i was being too demading and he never said he was bringing my lunch in the first place!!
I ask myself "when will you learn?"
I feel that the main reason i am hanging on is because of the time,money and energy i have put into this relationsip (he has put in zero) though if you were to ask him what he has put in , he will say "MY time"...
I want to say thank you for all your help. I cannot tell anyone what is going on ebcxause they do nto beleive it..they see him as someone kind,outgoing and i am the one that has the "problems"
Its scary how well they can carry all this off. After all i beleived it ....
I do have a question. Do N's have issues wiht spending tons of money??
He always wants me to buy him gifts and will spend hours looking on EBay for things (any thing..but it is usally stuff that is always costly) He will ask me to stay in the room (he calls this "intimacy) while he hunts for stuff. Im so tired of it. But when i try to leave he keeps telling me to stay...He will ask to buy stupid stuff like boats,and busses and castles (im serious here) He is serious! He says "we can make money doing this" I have all ready lost all my money through his "buisnes" dealings. He owed his brother tons of money (I did not know this until recently) and has never paid a dime back or even tried too His brohter was suppose to be investing in his business,which did make money but he still did not pay him anything back,then the whole thing went bust)
We never never hold each other,touch each others hands etc and if i want to kiss him i have to ask him He recoils as if it is torture for him. Sex has always been regulated by him..and he says things like ""Im trying to "drain" him??" ..has anyone gone though this? Is this part of what N's do??
I have been around N's all my life(my mom and an abusive father).But have never dated or ben in a realionship with an N
..I wonder if i will ever get free ~
thanks again..
blue~
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Hi again Blue:
I feel that the main reason i am hanging on is because of the time,money and energy i have put into this relationsip...
So what is the pay off? (playing Dr. Phil now, with long hair---heehee).
You've invested time, money and energy into this relationship and he has not.
What good things are you getting from this relationship, after putting all of you time, money and energy into it? (for you to think about--not to answer unless you really want to).
I cannot tell anyone what is going on ebcxause they do nto beleive it..they see him as someone kind,outgoing and i am the one that has the "problems"
I feel sad for you Blue. :( It's so hard to feel so alone in all of this. These people are such magicians at giving the illusion of wonderfulness and painting you as the villan.
I believe you, Blue. I believe that he is the one who has hurt you and I believe you when you say you have tried so hard and have only been made out to be the "problem".
Its scary how well they can carry all this off.
Personally, I think they get off on the fear that produces. They enjoy watching us squirm and they like the power their words can have.
The real way to escape is to take that power away and forget completely about what other people think....... and do what you know is right and what is best for you. Who cares what anybody else thinks?
Easy for me to say eh?
I do have a question. Do N's have issues wiht spending tons of money??
I'm no expert but thanks for asking and getting me to think about it. In my family......yes.......big problems. Problems with spending money they don't have. With stealing money. And a real biggie......greeeeeeed!
Terrible, what seems unsatisfyable greeeeeeeed! Big time!
He always wants me to buy him gifts and will spend hours looking on EBay for things (any thing..but it is usally stuff that is always costly) He will ask me to stay in the room (he calls this "intimacy) while he hunts for stuff.
This is also a control issue. He wants to control you. Every "gift" you buy him, that he convinces you to buy, or guilts you into it, or however gets you to get it......is a win for him. He controlled you. He likes that. A lot.
He gets you to spend your money on him and he gets you to do it when and on what he wants. Yep. He's controlling.
Im so tired of it. But when i try to leave he keeps telling me to stay.
I'm not sure if you're with him now or not but if you are......get a headache next time. If you're not with him now.......post here when you feel the urge to contact him. Even if it means posting 47 times per hour, every hour on the hour, for days on end. For every moment you spend thinking about him....you could be posting here...and purging some of the feelings that are tormenting you......putting down your thoughts.....and making sence of your situation. And others will support you all the way!!!
We never never hold each other,touch each others hands etc and if i want to kiss him i have to ask him He recoils as if it is torture for him.
I'm going to keep playing the same record because that's what helps me sometimes and if I get on your nerves......just tell me and I'll stop but for now:
So what's the payoff?
You're with a man who recoils from you and refuses to show affection, even the tiniest bit. What are you getting out of staying with him? How is it paying off?
Sex has always been regulated by him..and he says things like ""Im trying to "drain" him??"
He regulates it?? :shock:
Drain him??? :shock:
Dear, dear Blue. This man is already drained of any bit of human kindness, of any bit of intimacy, of any real feeling. How is this paying off for you?
It's hurting you. :( :( He's hurting you.
I wonder if i will ever get free
The question is.....why are you staying? (not for me---for you to think about).
You deserve so much more than this!
You deserve to be loved and treated with respect and kindness.
You deserve to be in a relationship with a person who considers your feelings and your needs and your wishes too.
Someone who wants to hold your hand and kiss you and make love with you.
Not some dorph who wants to suck your financially dry and spit you out and then tell everyone that YOU have problems.
Ok...I hope I didn't offend you here. I really do mean well. I don't like this guy you're with. I don't like the way he treats you. I don't think you deserve to be treated the way he treats you. I don't think anyone deserves that.
If your daughter was with a guy who treated her like this....what would you want for her????
What example are you teaching her about how relationships between a man and a woman should be???
((((((((((((Blue))))))))))))))
GFN
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We never never hold each other,touch each others hands etc and if i want to kiss him i have to ask him He recoils as if it is torture for him. Sex has always been regulated by him..and he says things like ""Im trying to "drain" him??" ..has anyone gone though this?
YES YES YES. (haha, joke on me, I wish our sex life was like that).
Same thing, we don't touch, we don't kiss or "make out" never have. Sometimes I have to beg him to kiss me and he'll sigh and be like Uh, FINE! Like a little kid. I can leave his house in the am and he'll be like, "Bye, talk to you later.." No kiss goodbye, not even a hug.
If he's leaving at the same time, he expects me to wait for him. What? To slam the door shut after me and THEN say, "talk to you later" ?
This past Christmas, he bought me some very nice gifts. I had a few glasses of wine and was feeling cheerful and said thanks for everything, and went to kiss him on the cheek. He pushed me away to stop me. (Ok, now I'm crying). He hurt me so badly in one single moment.
But you know, the funny thing is, we slept in together a lot in bed at his home. And he would cling to me for dear life while sleeping, arms wrapped tightly around me, kiss me on the forehead, pull me as close as he could to him...but like I said, it was like get out in the am.
Maybe he could only be emotionally "safe" when he was sleeping?
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hey, Blue (is that your post name?). GFN is a wise woman. What she says has been proven true in my life and most likely in others on this board.
For me, I came to realize that I had some real core beliefs about myself that were just plain WRONG!! One was that I was not worthy. Another was that to prove I loved, I must suffer. It may sound ridiculous, but until I realized these beliefs were at the center of things, I kept making the same kind of choices that supported those horrible self concepts.
Believe us.....we know how the N's work. He's a sick sick man. His sickness is NOT TO BE PITIED by you. (this one was tough for me). Why? Because this "pity" is many times what keeps us coming back for more. One little bread crumb of kindness and we forget ourselves and forget to LOVE OURSELVES!! You will be not be able to truly love ANYONE if you cannot find love first for yourself.
Repeat after me: I am strong. I am beautiful. I am worthy of my dreams!! Okay, now here's the rub: what is your dream? If it is for this abusive peice of dirt to "love" you....YOU NEED A NEW DREAM.
You deserve true love, we all do.
When I left my ex (after similar abuse and cheating and and and), I said..."my children will not learn that this (our pitiful abusive marriage) is what love is....and if I never find another man, it won't matter.......my children will learn what true love is by the way I love myself!!!!!"
You owe that to yourself and your daughter.
Bless you. I'm sending you power and strength!!! YOU are wonderful, just as you are! It's okay if you put up with it (we all did) but you don't have to anymore.
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blue, I agree wholeheartedly with mum, GFN, lara and andrea.
I have had many of the same (exact same!) experiences with my wife, but have been unable to just leave the relationship. Every time I head for the door, I have a panic attack and run back in. I have been bouncing back and forth like a ping pong ball and have a LOT more sympathy for us poor ping pong balls now! Its not so much what my wife is doing that keeps me here, its what I have been doing to myself. See my "My Long, Long Story" thread if you want the gory details. :evil: I'm working with my therapist to get to the bottom of this. I expect that the answer to stay or go will be obvious and doable for me once I deal with my stuff.
As for the touching thing, whatever happened to the idea that "all men are only interested in sex?" I guess it went the same way as "all women are supportive and nurturing." Most (all?) of the people on this board have had hurtful experiences that show the lies behind these platitudes. My wife would ask me to do more non-sexual touch (sex was off limits), like hugs, holding hands and shoulder pats. However, when I would do these she would accuse me of only wanting sex and told me to stop! I have asked her for many years where the line between physical touch and sex is for her. (Its fine with me that she has a line, the problem is it seems to shift depending on what I do so I'm always in the wrong. :( ) She has never been able or willing to discuss this with me. She seems a lot more interested in the "appearance" of a good relationship by including all the things she thought that meant (Leave it to Beaver style). However, when it came time to go through with it, she really doesn't want those things after all.
I admit, that after this had gone on for several years, I stopped the morning kiss, etc. I felt used to be doing that for her, but not getting anything I wanted or needed in return. Not even basic conversation. Of course she used this as further proof that there was something wrong with me and she was even more justified than before in pushing me away. Honestly, at this point in our "relationship" I probably would recoil if she tried to touch me or kiss me. I would interpret it as her trying to use me, since we don't talk or have any other basic closeness. However, she has NEVER tried that in the past and I don't expect her to start now. Come to think of it, she has always tried to get me to be the one to intitiate contact whether it was verbal, emotional, physical, or sexual.
As far as the money thing goes. My wife spent all the cash and then racked up credit cards to buy nothing much at all. She is really into eating out and being pampered by others. I really wonder if she was just spending to try to make herself feel better? I don't mean to insult all you wonderful women out there, but that does seem to be a more female thing to do. I have no problem with that in moderation. After all, I've done a bit of that myself. :D However, she denied what she was doing the whole time. When I pointed out the charges on the credit card bill, she denied making them. She only admitted it when I told her that I was calling the credit card company to cancel her card since it was obviously stolen. :twisted:
I guess what I'm trying to say (besides my own ranting) is that I feel like I understand what you are going through. Yes, even though I'm a man. :) Listen to mum and GFN, they are wise, loving women. Double standards are lies. If you wouldn't tell your friend or daughter to stay in this relationship, you don't get to tell yourself that either. However, I know how hard it can be to follow through on this. The way out of this trap, leaving or not, is to find out what you believe or are telling yourself about yourself and accept that you are not those things. You are a wonderful person, who is percetly fine. You deserve all the good things in life. There is nothing wrong with you. Anyone in your situation would feel the same and have a hard time coping.
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Andrea and Blue/Wildrain (which do you prefer?):
I totally agree with the others who have posted here, what they say is true. I would like to add my point of view as well. My relationship with my xNbf was very similar to yours, no cuddling or kissing. The night I met him he was very into kissing, but of course that disappeared very quickly, when I asked him about it he said that he didn't like kissing! (But he did it when we had sex?) I could beg him for five minutes just for a cuddle, and still not be sure if I would get it. When I was with him, I thought I could not find/get anyone better than this, I also felt so sorry for this poor, poor man, and the horrible childhood he had. I was determined to "help" him and to "save" him, I knew I could make him happy if I only tried hard enough. What complete and utter bs! :x Having had a shitty childhood is no excuse for treating other people like shit, and if he was really so sensitive, wouldn't he have been more sensitive to other people's feelings?
Anyway, to cut to the chase: You can do better and you will do better once you get out of these crappy relationships (I know you're out of yours Andrea, but you still miss it/are affected by him?). I have now, for almost seven years, lived with a man who is very cuddly, kissy and affectionate. He may have his problems (don't we all), but he acknowledges them and works on them. He even looks at pictures of kittens and goes "aahh, that's so cuute" (and no, he's not gay :) ). These men do exist, they're out there, and no, they are not all taken already.
Blue/Wildrain: You say it is hard to leave b/c you have spent so much time, effort and money on this man. I know this feeling well, I've had it too, but don't you think you've spent enough? Do you really want to spend more time, effort and money on him?
Take care, both of you.
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Wildrain,
I don't really having anything new to say, but agree with what everyone else has said. You deserve to be treated better and your daughter needs to learn better.
When my H first left, I was so worried about how the kids would be affected by their family coming apart. Through many hours of therapy, I now know that they will be better off seeing their mother in a healthy, loving relationship down the road, than the empty one that I had with their father.
As far as the money thing goes, my H never kept his spending under control and always had us in debt and figured it would eventually work itself out. For 22 years I had to try to keep us afloat financially and he had no clue. Now that I'm on my own, all bills are paid and I have my finances under control. All debts got paid off when we sold the house and I vowed to never let myself get in the position again. I'm sure he digging himself into another hole now that he's on his own.
Don't ever expect the sex to get any better either. If my experience is typical, it will only get worse. My H hardly ever wanted sex with me and mostly masturbated himself to an orgasm toward the end of our relationship. Obviously, there is much more to intimacy besides intercourse and I want the whole package in my future relationship.
Think about what you want for yourself and the kind of love you want from your partner. The man you are with will most likely never provide that for you. The longer you stay, the harder it is to go. Cut your losses, go through the pain and come out on the other side. Find the strength for your sake and that of your daughter. I know it is not easy, but nothing worth having generally is.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Brigid
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I too agree with what everyone else has said. I know how hard it is to leave someone. Trust me I have been breaking up with my ex N since October - and I am pregnant with his baby so I HAVE to see him at some point. However, by doing all the things that people on here have suggested - distance, little contact etc it has started to get easier. This morning he phoned me and cried down the phone for ages because he "couldn't believe something so special had ended". A few weeks ago that would have had me at his door feeing bad, today I was just annoyed that he had phoned so early!! So it does get easier, as long as you start to realise that you are worth more and stick to the guidelines regarding contact. Some days are easier than others, I am 7 months pregnant now and I daren't stop working/cleaning/studying as I know that keeping myself busy is what has helped me to stay away.
Day by day you will get through this, every day will be easier until one day when he realises you've gone and finds someone else to terrorise! Good luck keep strong!
I did want to add that another N characteristic sex-wise that my ex had, that I have read about before is the exact opposite of what a lot of you have described. We would have sex two or three times a day and it always had to be "the best ever". He literally would perform oral sex on me until I was begging him to stop, even then sometimes he would keep going. It sounds great, but it was too much. He always had to be congratulated on every aspect of his performance. "Has any other man done that" "was it good" " did you like it" " was that the best you've ever had" etc etc. It was draining. After we had broken up he once came round and tried to force himself on me - not badly, but enough to worry me - and when I was annoyed he turned round and said "but you always said it was your fantasy to be forced". I had once mentioned that, but it was a fantasy for CHrist's sake, and having been through a situation where I was genuinely forced (that he knew about) why would he do that? He really thought that after "all I had done to him" that I was lucky he still wanted to favour me with his sexual prowess!!
Sorry to digress, but I thought it was interesting how different they can apear with the same "me, me, me" mentality beneath it all.
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Hi Everyone.
I've been thinking about how difficult it is to leave these men (or women.)
One difficulty may be that we feel we have invested so much in the relationship. It's very difficult to finally accept that actually the r/ship will NEVER work out.
An analogy that comes to my mind is that of a gambler in a club all evening. Maybe the gambler loses in the first few games, but remains confident that eventually he or she will start winning,if he just plays for long enough. As the night goes on, he is still losing, but feels that if he keeps playing, the odds of him eventually winning increase every time.(Of course this is a fallacy!) The reality is of course that it's perfectly possible that he will play all night, never win, and ultimately lose everything.
I wonder if a similar mechanism is operating when we are trying to make a r/ship with an N work. That is why we are still asking questions such as 'Could he change?' Somehow it's so difficult to accept that the love we give somebody will not act like a magic potion on them. We can hardly believe that we can show them unfailing love, support, and understanding, but that at the end of the evening we still haven't 'won.'
So we keep on having just one more try. I think it was Philip who said that somebody asked him if he enjoyed being miserable, and that that made him look at the situation he was in. When I was involved with my ex, I read a book that said that if you felt unhappy in a r/ship for more than 25% of the time, then you should get out. I remember thinking that at that time I was deeply unhappy for at least 90% of the time, but I STILL hesitated about getting out. I just could not believe that the strength of my feelings for him was not bound to make everything between us turn out well eventually.
I was wrong, but it's only the distance in time and space now, that has let me see it.
Sincerely,
Lara.
PS To Cadbury...I have so much admiration for how you are coping with your situation.Sending you love and hugs!
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Lara,
I think your analogy of the gambler is perfect. I do think that old habits die hard and we just keep thinking that if we do or say this one more thing that the lightbulb in their heads will go on and they will miraculously change their behavior. Kind of like the guy (or gal--no one will accuse me of being sexist) who goes into the doctor's office and says "doc, it really hurts when I do this." The cure is to stop doing whatever 'this' is.
If we play the odds, odds are that things are not going to change and you need to figure out a way to stop the hurt.
Congratulations to those of you who are fighting the good fight and winning. You will prevail and end up in a better place.
Brigid
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Yes, I said me and my ex are no longer together. But we have seen each twice 3 times now since. Usually at the local pub, either running into each other, or actually planning to meet, catch up, and try to be "friends".
The first time (after not seeing each for 2 weeks) he kept looking at me, asking me how I was, trying to make jokes, and it was nice to see him squirm. The next was St. Patty's Day. After consuming too much green beer I passed out at his house. Unfortunatley, someone (me) got sick all over his bed. (Kind of a accidental revenge moment? Lol)
But it does get easier. Last night I met him for drinks. Since I haven't been spending as much time with him, he annoys me. Just listening to the way he talks and tries to be smart, and right all the time. UGH! I like to debate with him now! Any difference in opinio and it gets him going , and the best is when I'm right about something. He gets SOOOO mad. Like we were talking about the Tsunami. He pronounced it TOO SOO NAMI. I was like, uh it's SOO-nami dork. He got SO upset he was wrong. I just laugh inside. :roll:
And he just wants to focus on school now, doesn't want to date for a long time, women are too much trouble, he doesn't care about sex anymore, blah blah. Good. Maybe he'll have time to see a therapist now!
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Thank you Lara!
It is so freaky how similar these people are. My ex is also now at the "I will never date anyone again" stage. I am at the same stage as you Andrea where he is really starting to annoy me. I have become very petty as a result!! It is nice to see that we are all getting through it day by day. It gives me hope.
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You know, it's true...the more people you talk to on here, and see their stories, it's seems like a LOT of these N's are extremely similiar. (Maybe they were all born on an "N" planet somewhere far far away?) They were dropped to earth in the night in little "Pods"?
Yeah, I'm doing better each day. I got home last night and didn't even bother to call him, and although we used to go out on Tues, Wed, and Thurs. when I get off work, I don't really want to see him. I kind of don't even care if he's out at a bar or club and meets someone. It hurts a little, but I also think, "Boy, what a TREAT she's in for!"
Today I got dressed up for work, thinking that I might "see him" after work. That's old thinking though. I won't be seeing him tonight. I'll be going home after work. I can't worry about what he's up to. I should be getting dressed up for myself more often too. Not for him!
I ran into his sister in law the other day and we had a great chat. She said her and my ex had a very hard time getting along when they first met. She thinks he's a complete A@$hole in her words. She said Why do you put up with that? He's a male chauvinist, obnoxious, rude, etc. She said all he wants in a woman is instant gratification (One nighter) a maid, and cook. He doesn't want an adult relationship with the committment, and the responsibility. And she said he did grow up in a bad family, and her being married to my ex's brother, said she herself had to put in a lot of work to get her husband over stuff. And she asked me, do you really want to play therapist all your life? And still not be good enough?
(And I found out he was telling them he can't go out with me because I'm "Overweight". The sister in law told him to bugg off and told him I'm just fine, that he's got the issues, not me)