Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: miaxo on April 14, 2005, 12:42:51 PM
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Hi All:
I'm a little weary to post this since it could clue in any lurking N of my identity but I'm feeling risky today.
This is part of an email I sent to X N defending myself against one of his false claims. The mention of DK is the noteworthy part:
Secondly the email was sent Tuesday while you were still home and before you departed for your fishing vacation with Dennis K.
The following is X N's response which was triggered by me mentioning the name DK:
In response to your latest of e-mails, you have certainly reinforced my reasons for engaging counsel to have to deal with court order issues. Once again you are overwhelming with the numerous allegations and most recently with the invasion of my Associates privacy. To what business is it of yours to whom I am working with? Be advised that I intend to have a inquiry done to verify the identification and times of any requests for public information records made to any public agency about Mr.K recently. I can't understand how this is going to help us resolve our differences, but it certainly shows you are willing to go to great lengths to cause trouble with my Clients and Associates. Any violations of the privacy act will be reported to the proper authorities. In an effort to avoid such, I will accept a written apology and signed by all parties involved in violating my right to privacy by tomorrow evening, April 15, 2005.
Any thoughts on his mindset? I merely mentioned the guy's name...nothing more....nothing less.
Mia
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Mia,
He sounds like a horrible, horrible person. :(
I can't say whether he is N or paranoid or something else, but he's certainly as mean as they come. I hope you have some support and professional advice to deal with all this. I would not know where to begin. The sooner you shake off this man from your life, the better.
S - "Guest from afar"
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My take on it is that he will use any lame excuse to intimidate you. I would ignore this thing completely. It's just a bunch of crap.
sorry he is such an a**.
bunny
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Mia,
First of all, how is accessing public information some affront to him or his clients?
Second, he is obviously feeling some heat and stress, and has something to hide. They only squeal when their tail's caught in the door.
Third, whats going to happen if you don't apologize? Is he going to huff and puff and blllllllowwwwww your house in? He's a squealing little pig not a wolf! :roll:
A request of a public agency for public information is by definition not an invasion of anyone's privacy.
Ignore it or tell him to blow it out his pig hole. :twisted:
mudpuppy
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I can't say whether he is N or paranoid or something else,
Well, I'll say it for you...he's both. :wink: Crazy as a loon this one is.
My take on it is that he will use any lame excuse to intimidate you
In the past I let him intimidate me. No more of that though. This was a pathetic attempt at intimidation.
First of all, how is accessing public information some affront to him or his clients?
My thoughts exactly. These sorts of statements are typical of him.
Third, whats going to happen if you don't apologize? Is he going to huff and puff and blllllllowwwwww your house in? He's a squealing little pig not a wolf!
This is classic. Thanks Mud. I had to call hubby and tell him what you wrote. We both got a kick out of this. I almost feel like saying it to X N when he picks up the kids for dinner tonight. But of course I won't...for the sake of the kids. Enjoyed the laugh. :lol:
Keep in mind this was only a small portion of his email.
Mia
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Hi Mia,
First of all KUDOS to you for remaining so level headed while dealing with this nut. What kind of clients does he have, is he a lawyer, I can't tell.
When my NXH was acting like that I found out that he was abusing prescription drugs. SOMETHING is very wrong with him because demanding an apology with no leverage is tactically a stupid move. WAIT, I could be reading too much into it, maybe he IS just stupid, LOL.
Anyway, when my NXH acts like that I find it best to not correspond thru email but rather use the phone and cut off any of his outbursts by stating the obvious- "I'm not scared of you."
And good for you for not subjecting your kids tohaving ti hear that kind of verbal harrassment.
Delphine
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Mia,
I'm speechless (yes, it does happen on occasion). I'm sorry that you have to continue to be associated with this wack job. I also applaud your constraint at not driving to his home and beating him senseless, although I'm sure you have wanted to on any number of occasions.
Thank God your children have you to come home to.
((((((Mia)))))))
Brigid
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How about this response:
"Dear Nutbar X: (Maybe leave the nutbar part out)
Thankyou for your email dated such and such.
Sorry to hear you are feeling under the weather.
Hope you get well soon.
Love and Kisses, (maybe leave this part out too :D )
Mia"
Either that or ignor it completely.
What nonsense he spews! :roll:
GFN
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Any thoughts on his mindset? I merely mentioned the guy's name...nothing more....nothing less.
Mia
My ex tries this one sometimes. Frighten me with legal terms and lawyers. Except it is not scarey, only pathetic.
Generally it leads me to reply to the solicitors and tell them very politely that they have no legal case whatever, but that if they want to contest it in court nonetheless, I will see them there. I have yet to have any of them willing to try.
My response would therefore be along the following lines:
Due to the intemperate and disproportionate tenor of your reply to my email, please be advised that in future any and all correspondence between us will be handled by my solicitors: (name)
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Mia, do you have a fireplace? And is it still cool enough in the evenings for you to use it?
Very therapeutic ritual: print out a bunch of these flaming missives and -- flame them yourself. Use them as tinder to get a small log going. As they turn to ashes, feel his ability to threaten you with anything real crumbling to dust.
Then roast marshmallows for you and the kids. Heh heh heh.
If you don't have a fireplace, tearing them into little itty bitty teeny weeny pieces is almost as good. Then you scatter the itty bitty teeny weeny pieces in every trashcan in the house. Or put them into the bottom of the same plastic bag you put the used kitty litter in... ahh, the symbolism... you dump on me, OK, I dump on you, with help from Kitty...
hope this has given you some creative ideas -- enjoy.
hugs
Storm
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Delphine:
What kind of clients does he have, is he a lawyer, I can't tell.
He's self-employed...construction management.
WAIT, I could be reading too much into it, maybe he IS just stupid, LOL.
Stupid is, Stupid does. :lol:
brigid wrote:
I also applaud your constraint at not driving to his home and beating him senseless, although I'm sure you have wanted to on any number of occasions.
Amen to that! I have been known to punch the h#ll out of my pillow pretending it is X N. :wink:
GFN,
Love that letter to Mr. Nutbar.
October wrote:
My ex tries this one sometimes. Frighten me with legal terms and lawyers. Except it is not scarey, only pathetic.
Who do they think they are kidding?
Thanks Robin for the supportive words.
Storm,
I do have a fireplace. Too warm to use it but I will keep it in mind. Sounds cathartic.
I'll let you guys know how I end up responding....if at all. I really don't want to waste my time or energy doing so.
I guess the clock is ticking on that apology. :) One more email to add to the already overflowing folder that shows how nutty he really is. Gotta focus on the positive.
Mia
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Mia:
Gotta focus on the positive.
You bet!! Uh huh!! Go girl!!
:D
GFN
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Oh, my-- you appear to have an N with extreme paranoid tendencies! How lovely. Maybe you should write back:
Dear person with TWO personality disorders:
Alas, you caught me. I have been monitoring everything you do, and everyone you associate with. Alas, it is not my fault. I was contacted by space aliens who find you to be FASCINATING and PERFECT in every way and they insisted I find out everything I could about you for them. They even want to know the names of people you spend time with.
There is something you can do. Their monitoring systems operate through electricity. So, just disconnect all of the electricity in your house. Also, they are able to send special messages to me through water, so you will need also to convert all of your plumbing to outdoor plumbing. They abhor outhouses, so I would build a few of those.
Also, in case you are wondering, we have discovered that Dennis is not really a person. He is a robot. He was created solely for the purpose of accompanying you to activities, because the Warlords realize that you are the supreme being of the universe and they want to know everything that you do without corrupting your activities with inferior human.
sincerely,
Person who is done with you, hooray
(Sorry-- I have known paranoid people and while it may not be politically correct it is very fun to make fun of them).
how soon can you be rid with this guy forever? Hang in there!
Vunil
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Alas, you caught me. I have been monitoring everything you do, and everyone you associate with. Alas, it is not my fault. I was contacted by space aliens who find you to be FASCINATING and PERFECT in every way and they insisted I find out everything I could about you for them. They even want to know the names of people you spend time with.
I think if I wrote this he would be in a straight jacket in no time flat.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Also, in case you are wondering, we have discovered that Dennis is not really a person. He is a robot. He was created solely for the purpose of accompanying you to activities, because the Warlords realize that you are the supreme being of the universe and they want to know everything that you do without corrupting your activities with inferior human.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Who's writing your material? :wink: It's fantastic!
how soon can you be rid with this guy forever?
Not soon enough! Kids are only 5 and 7. Short of him dropping dead tomorrow he'll be a thorn in my side for some time to come.
Thanks for the making me laugh. I needed that today.
Mia
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You're welcome :)
If you want more empowerment in the form of knowledge, you could read up on paranoid personality disorder. Who knows if he has the full-blown thing, but he certainly has tendencies.
I know you're too close to it now to fully laugh at it, but his e-mail to you was utterly insanely hilarious. I love all of the capital letters: my Associates, etc. And he gave you a deadline for your apology! Priceless.
Actually, he reminds me of how my dad acted in my childhood :( It was always a little terrifying to watch him invent new ways to prove he was in control. And the more he did it, the less I respected him. So the more he did it.
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mia and vunil,
I've got an overflowing file of very similar e-mails myself.
The only difference is my brother would almost never capitalize or punctuate anything. The message I always got from it was, 'you're not important enough for me to even go to the trouble of holding the shift key down.'
Funny how many subtle variations on the same theme they come up with.
mudpup
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Mudpup-- It could also be "I am in such a rage dominated by my pathologies that I can't stop typing all of this crazy nonsense long enough to punctuate."
You might look into paranoid personality disorder, too-- your lovely brother has some of those tendencies, it seems. Not that there is a cure, but sometimes knowing there are others out there helps. I have a colleague with it, I just realized (I knew something was really wrong but just realized what it is). In some ways it is harder to deal with than NPD, although the one thing that makes it easier is that others can tell the person is nuts. They tend to respond to things that aren't really happening, which is pretty easy to spot. With NPD a lot of times strangers find them wonderful, which can be infuriating! And if they can stop thinking the therapist is the enemy I do think paranoids sometimes go to therapy.
But not if they are also narcissistic, alas.
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Mudpup,
'you're not important enough for me to even go to the trouble of holding the shift key down.'
I howled at this. :lol: :lol:
Definitely an entry to the most N comments ever. :!: :!:
Mia,
The man is a lunatic. I loved Vunil's comebacks, esp the line about Dennis. She should write your material for you. I wish I could be that quick and clever. It would definitely come in handy with my H.
Brigid
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Hi Brigid,
'you're not important enough for me to even go to the trouble of holding the shift key down.'
Definitely an entry to the most N comments ever.
He didn't actually say that, that is the impression I thought he was trying to convey to me. The 'quotation marks' probably threw you off. My fault.
A friend of mine was also quite insulted by one of these types of e-mails.
Thanks vunil,
I'll check that out. I would absolutely love to get my brother into a psychological exam with a competent shrink, hopefuly court appointed. :wink:
mudpup
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I was thinking of bringing X N's email into the children's therapy session on Monday to give her a better feel for what I have to actually deal with on a daily basis.
Good or bad move?
Keep in mind he was court ordered to contact this therapist and was in contempt of court. His excuse: I didn't give him the phone #. He had his attorney write that up in a letter to my attorney. How's about opening a phone book, buddy??? Just like I did. UGH!
Mia
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I was thinking of bringing X N's email into the children's therapy session on Monday to give her a better feel for what I have to actually deal with on a daily basis.
Good or bad move?
Good move. I'd do it.
bunny
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Yes! He could have prevented this from happening by.... not writing that e-mail in the first place. Write an e-mail, someone might show it to someone else. That's how it works.
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do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it...
...let him speak for you. Much more convincing than you trying to paraphrase it. The pathology should jump right up and smack 'em in the eye.
good luck Mia, good luck.
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PS: Heh heh heh
(sorry, I just love the thought of this guy being exposed for what he is.)
What would make you not bring it? I guess instead of dancing around the fire as we are we should ask you what you're thoughts/feelings are...?
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I echo the prevailing sentiment: take the letter to the therapist, let this creep incriminate himself with his own pen(or keyboard).
I'm thinking about you and sending you strength---
PQC
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What would make you not bring it? I guess instead of dancing around the fire as we are we should ask you what you're thoughts/feelings are...?
I have always used his emails for court and have exposed some of his shenanigans to the Judge which worked in my favor. However, I'm hesitant to do same with the therapist b/c I don't want it to backfire and be viewed by the T as trying to blind side X N. And will T just see it as animosity between X N and myself?? I guess I should have more faith in her abilities and know that she will see him at minimum as being paranoid.
I'm going to make a copy of the email and give it to her. Like Storm said, he can do the talking for me and as a result I won't come off as the one bashing him.
BTW this is how I responded to his email.....don't know whether it was good or bad....probably a waste of time.
Your escalating level of paranoia is of great concern. Your attempt to intimidate is pathetic.
Borrowing from Mud, it will probably go in one pig hole and out the other.
Mia
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Oh, Boy, Mia. When I read your first post, my stomache flipped and I had the same panic reaction that I have when my ex sends me emails. They are clones! Truly unbelievable, it's as if he wrote it. Same aggressive tone, same threats.... Scary, sick, wack jobs. And yes, I know you have to deal with him... and I know why you don't just get in his face....the kids. They use our good mothering against us always. But that's ok. It's something they also hate about us and something they will never control (that's whythey hate it!).
I would not bring that email in to the counselor and then give her your opnion of it. At least in my state, everybody is all paranoid about Parental Alienation Syndrome (it's a crock, and a real pain to deal with in the courts...but it gets thrown around a lot). You told me before that you have usually prevailed by staying focused on the kids. I think you should stick with that.
If you do take it to the counselor, talk to your lawyer first. The counselor you refer to is the kid's counselor, right? (not yours?). This may make a difference. We ALL know that this stuff indirectly affects the children 9all us sane people anyway)........but I woul be treading lightly, because in this good ol boy state, women/mothers are always suspected of being bitter (regardless of how abusive the nut job father is).
My technique for dealing with that crap? "recieved email". THAT'S IT!
Let your lawyer be your boundary....that's what I have recently learned to do to take care of myself emotionally.
You might then say: "recieved email, forwarded to my attorney."
Bless you Mia.......and judging from the other posts we are not the only ones having to deal with this crap on a daily basis. Strenght in numbers!
MUM
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However, I'm hesitant to do same with the therapist b/c I don't want it to backfire and be viewed by the T as trying to blind side X N.
I don't know this therapist but if she is a decent one she won't put bad motives on you. She will appreciate that you shared this.
I would not reply to any provocative, as he will know he pushed your buttons. I would keep him in the dark completely.
bunny
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IMHO.....I would not take the email into the therapist as of yet. These are the reasons why I wouldnt pull that card at this time.
First and foremost if the therapist is any kind of a therapist, they should know what NPD is and what it is to deal with a Narci on a daily basis. I would drop the N word first to the therapist theeeeen when the therapist begins to assess your character you could pull out the email. I just feel that it might give your version a little bit more credibility. You know how narci's can feed some people a line of bullchit a mile long. Well if this therapist is worth their name on a piece of paper, they will know all to well what games Narcis play and they wont partake in his tangled bunch of bullchit.
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They use our good mothering against us always. But that's ok. It's something they also hate about us and something they will never control (that's whythey hate it!).
At least in my state, everybody is all paranoid about Parental Alienation Syndrome (it's a crock, and a real pain to deal with in the courts...but it gets thrown around a lot). .... I woul be treading lightly, because in this good ol boy state, women/mothers are always suspected of being bitter (regardless of how abusive the nut job father is).
mia: this may be more info than you are looking for - but i would take a skim on some of these sites just for your own education, in addition to asking the lawyer first... after what happened to me in the 'system' i did an awful lot of research (i chair a NOW task force now, specifically to address abusers manipulating the system - they are extremely good at it) - mum is entirely correct about PAS. its not 'real', but its very easy to get labeled so its beneficial to be aware. i would talk to the therapist, but i would do some research first.
the learning curve is steep, and knowlege really is power. these are chock-full of hints and experience of others so you dont have to 'reinvent the wheel'. thousands of abusers in -every- state are using (or trying to use) the legal system as their personal playground to continue to abuse. its very very common. they have lost all other forms of control and the legal arena is all they have left to use against their former target.
its tempting to think his behavior is as obvious to others as it is to you - but that isnt always the way that it works out.... so, forewarned is forarmed. (and yes mudpuppy, four-armed is half an octopus)
good luck mia :} > hope you find something useful..
anna
<http://www.custodyprepformoms.org/>
<http://www.kourtsforkids.org/>
<http://www.mothers-of-lost-children.com/>
<http://www.protectiveparents.com/>
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mia:
I might be totally out to lunch, but I thought public records are just that public. Anyone can access information inasmuch it is of public record. How can anyone stop another person from obtaining information that is on record? I mean aren't you allowed to go to the Clerk of Court and obtain property records, marriage records, etc. If this is not true then everyone is in trouble according to this crazy N.
I am with the everyone else he is just trying to intimidate you. Check with the lawyer on the record thing. N's try to brow beat you into submission. Get what belongs to you Mia. Patz
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Mum
I know exactly what you mean about the PAS. X N has never made reference to it but there is always the possibility that he will.
bunny
would not reply to any provocative, as he will know he pushed your buttons. I would keep him in the dark completely
You are right. Normally I ignore X N but every once in a while I have a "flare up". :roll:
Jaded
I would drop the N word first to the therapist
How can this be done without appearing to be a know it all? I would love to drop the "N Bomb". Should I wait until after he has met with the therapist a few times? She has indicated that she would like to have sessions with him and the children since the kids are having a difficult time adjusting to full EOWeekends at his place.
D's Mom
Thanks for the info. I'll add it to my arsenal.
Patz
Public info is open to the public. But it's irrevelant anyway. I really don't care what he does with his spare time as long as it doesn't have negative consequences for the children. He always has been paranoid but it is definitely getting worse in the last two years.
Last night I had to drop off my daughter to his house after an activity (his weekend to have kids). I arrived earlier then expected and he was still out with my son at the park. I phoned his cell to let let him know. He *went paranoid* on me. He didn't want me sitting out front of his house. He was about five minutes away. I told him I would wait. He called back two minutes later and wanted me to drive back to my house (over ten minutes away). He sounded as if he was in a panic that I was in front of his home while he wasn't there. He kept repeating, "No need for you to wait there, I'll pick up daughter at your place." I asked, "You're five minutes away, right?" His response, "Yes". I said, "I'll just wait". He kept stammering away and finally I got off the phone. I guess he thought I was going to break in. Who knows what was going on in that fragmented robotic mind of his.
My daughter was very upset about having to go to Dad's this weekend. For the most part she is a gregarious child. When I picked her up from school yesterday, as soon as she came out of the doors she started sobbing. I thought something had happened in school. She immediately starts pleading that she doesn't want to sleep over her Dad's house. You can imagine how this made me feel. I told her that for the time being she will have to visit her Dad on his weekends...b/c the Judge ordered it...yada yada yada. I hugged her but she was still very upset. I reminded her that we were going to her Girl Scout activity together and then I would take her to Dad's. She calmed down a little.
After the GS activity....as soon as we were in the car.....she began sobbing again....begging me not to take her. When I ask her what's going on at Dad's to make her so upset she will say the following things:
*He treats us badly.
*He yells all the time.
*He blames me for everything.
*He doesn't let me play with M(brother).
*He tells me that he is going to "tell the therapist that I'm bad"......BECAUSE OF THIS COMMENT SHE DOESN'T THINK SHE WANTS TO GO TO THERAPY ANYMORE! X N sabatoged daughter's last therapist by writing nasty letters to her and by questioning her credentials, etc. Old therapist told me I need a therapist who is willing to testify in court and since she didn't do the "court thing" she didn't want to be involved in a quagmire.
During the GS activity my daughter was withdrawn from the troop (soooo unlike her) and others noticed. My coleader asked me, "What's wrong with D? Is she OK?" It was visible that her mood was depressed. How messed up is that? A seven year old experiencing depression. These are supposed to be her carefree years. It makes me sick.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
Mia
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I mean aren't you allowed to go to the Clerk of Court and obtain property records, marriage records, etc. If this is not true then everyone is in trouble according to this crazy N.
yes you are 'supposed' to be able to do lots of things but that -isnt- how it always works out. (in hundreds of cases with normal women who have jobs and money and social standing)
he may be a bumbling paranoiac but still better safe than sorry.
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not to say i dont agree that email is bluster which i do.
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X N sabatoged daughter's last therapist by writing nasty letters to her and by questioning her credentials, etc. Old therapist told me I need a therapist who is willing to testify in court and since she didn't do the "court thing" she didn't want to be involved in a quagmire.
Not sure what this therapist means. The "treating" therapist can't also advocate for the child in court. They can only be a witness regarding their diagnosis, etc. They aren't considered an expert witness because of their duty to the patient. Another therapist is appointed to evaluate the child and testify in court. That's how I understand it.
Remember the one thing your ex can't control is that she won't be a minor forever.
bunny
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Wow Mia...........he is really a nut case. Bunny is correct, your children will not be minors forever................that is when the chickens really come home to roost. He will be alone, to look into the mirror whenever he pleases and have all the time in the world to peek around corners to see if anyone is looking or listening to him. What an N. Patz
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Not sure what this therapist means. The "treating" therapist can't also advocate for the child in court. They can only be a witness regarding their diagnosis, etc. They aren't considered an expert witness because of their duty to the patient. Another therapist is appointed to evaluate the child and testify in court. That's how I understand it.
Hi bunny.
I don't know what the detaileed circumstances were that caused my daughter's previous therapist to "resign". All I know is that she received phone calls and letters from X N and she didn't appreciate his tone. She said that she doesn't get involved in court (I never asked her or hinted either).
During this time X N also *harrassed" the children's pediatrician with phone calls. I happened to call the doctor about another matter and while he had me on the phone he advised that X had been calling there. The doctor was not pleased. He told me that he and his partner would no longer take his calls and wouldn't expand on that. X N stated in court that he felt that I caused the doctor to turn on him.
Also, X N was phoning a program that the children belonged to and was harassing the administration. The administration phoned me since I was listed as the contact persoon and advised that X N was calling there. They did not release any info to him as he wasn't listed on the children's info sheet. Apparently, X N kept calling them and calling them. The administrator informed me that his office would not take any more calls from him and he already informed his staff to direct X N to the township solicitor if he was adamant about talking to someone.
Basically within a month's time, X N successfully alienated the therapist, the pediatrician, and a township program. All of this was put on record for the court to see.
X N has stated on more then one occasion that I am conspiring against him with others (I have a few emails from him supporting this).
He is definitely N but it seems that is paranoia is intensifying as of late.
Mia
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I don't know what the detaileed circumstances were that caused my daughter's previous therapist to "resign". All I know is that she received phone calls and letters from X N and she didn't appreciate his tone. She said that she doesn't get involved in court (I never asked her or hinted either).
Maybe your ex threatened to sue her for malpractice so she got out of the situation entirely. She didn't explain it to you very well, as it left you with the impression that some therapists "do" court and others "don't." If they get a subpoena they don't have much choice. This former therapist can still be subpoenaed if your ex's attorney feels like doing that.
bunny
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Mia -- you may be able to get a deposition from the pediatrician concerning the harassment by your X.
The doc does not have to come to court, and this can help your lawyer put the blame where it belongs, as well as helping to demonstrate that your X has a pattern of harassing the children's healthcare providers.
you might want to consult your lawyer about this.
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Hi mia,
One thing that Ns do is the tit for tat game. If you call their bluff they raise the bet one notch. If you call that they raise it again one more notch, and so on and so on until their 'enemy' quits. They count on it.
Have you considered appearing to continue on the same path you're on while actually collecting as much evidence as possible for a nuclear strike against the creep. His whacko e-mails and all of his despicable behavior is all actionable in court if you so choose. And most of his behaviors probably constitute torts, which means he is liable for punitive damages. If you acquire enough evidence of witnesses and documents of his threats, intimidations, defamations, manipulations of your kids etc. You would be in a position to very possibly have the power to get him off your back, and possibly curtail his access to your kids. And with sufficient evidence you could probably find an attorney to do it on contingency.
It takes a big emotional and time consuming commitment but you've got 11 and 13 years to go until your little ones are out of his grasp. Thats a big emotional and time consuming commitment to be playing as well. And the whole time you will be playing defense and getting jerked around by the fruit loop.
Might be something to think about? Especially if he keeps getting worse; keeps harming your kids? Or at least maybe consult a personal injury attorney and find out what he/she says? Maybe?
Information on your options never hurts. You don't have to do anything with it, but at least you might know if you have any.(options that is)
mudpup
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d's mom, patz, storm, bunny, and mud
Thanks for the feedback.
I document everything all the time regarding X N and his ability to be a parent. I have to be careful in my presentation though to avoid the risk of being viewed as a Mom who fosters PAS.
Mud, I am willing to try anything as my ultimate goal is to do away with joint custody. Unfortunately, the Judges here aren't too keen on changing the status quo. There has to be tons and tons of stuff to show that X N can not coparent. Believe me, I am continually working on this.
My husband was saying something similar to what you are saying....just last evening. He said for me to do whatever it takes...whatever the cost.
We'll see what goes. Gotta run.
Thanks all.
Mia
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Mia: just incredible what these guys do. It is frightening that there are so many similarities between our exes.....brrrrr.
It breaks my heart to hear about your daughter crying.....mine does the same, and she's almost 13. My ex undermined the last therapist by making him sign a form "never to tesify"...my new lawyer got around that in a way, however my daighter refused to speak to the therapist. At all. Both my children told me they do not want dad to know how they feel as they are terrified of his reaction....even my big 17 year old. In this way, he keeps them silenced (voiceless, which is how I got to this board).
Another site to check out is thelizlibrary.org
I warn you though, you will need to process the negativity there or it will get to you ....got to me, and unfortunately got me to focus on how bad things could be....now I know how to let that stuff go. There is lots of good information but lots of frustrating things the "father's rights' people do to mothers.. Anna is correct: knowledge is power. "Liz" has my favorite line, however, in taking on one of the sickos: "Bring it on Sparky!"
Hang in there, Mia... Focus on the goal....keeping your kids healthy and happy, getting emotionally away from this guy. Don't let his crap take you off your path (I remind myself of this daily).
Sending you strength and light.
MUM
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Feeling a bit depressed and defeated.
Therapist appears to be giving X N the benefit of the doubt. I sensed this by a few comments she made to me yesterday. She met with him over the weekend. :twisted: I shouldn't be surprised since he always wears his mask and is Mr. Social/Mr. A$$kisser when he first meets someone. So, I didn't show her the email or even mention it. I'll wait.
Last night I sent X N an email telling him that my online account will no longer be active and for him to send all communication via US mail. I then deleted that Screen name. I figure why make myself so accessible to his abuse. Hopefully this will slow down/cut back on the amount of communication from him.
I just want to feel like I am not constantly at war. I feel so beaten down today. I know this will pass but I need a break. I can tell I'm stressing b/c I have really been "OCDing" lately. My house is so neat and clean you wouldn't even know I have two small children. I need to chill. I don't want to make my kids neurotic like me. :roll:
My BIL told my husband last night on the phone that as an outsider he feels like we are "obsessing" over X N. Of course, he prefaced his comment with, "Please don't get upset with me, I don't want you guys to look like the crazy ones." He's right....we've become so consumed by X N. He also said, "We all know the guy is nuts but don't let him control your lives."
Thanks for listening.
Mia
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Mia,
While I understand that you don't want to receive abuse from this nutcase, there is a usefulness in his writing as possible, via email or letter. The more he writes, the more people will be able to question him about what he wrote, reading back his quotes. And let him leave nasty phone messages that get recorded.
I am disheartened and bummed out by therapists who are easily duped by the charms of a sociopath. The minute a t sees "charm" in a divorce/custody situation she should also see a red flag. Not only that, but if the kid(s) are upset, acting out, crying, doesn't that say something about daddy?? :evil: But she won't be the expert witness in this case if your child(ren) are her patients. At least I pray not.
As for your husband, I would imagine that he doesn't like a lot of energy going toward another man, even if it's negative energy. And that is understandable. He may have a point that obsession isn't even helpful here. But anyway you can obsess to us.
bunny
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Oops, I just saw it was your BIL who said you were obsessing, not your husband. Sorry. Is he a nice person, or not very supportive?
bunny
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I just saw it was your BIL who said you were obsessing, not your husband. Sorry. Is he a nice person, or not very supportive
He's an extremely nice person and genuinely cares about his brother and me. I think when you aren't on the front line with this sort of situation it can be difficult to fully relate to it. BIL normally wouldn't say boo and that is why husband and I were surprised that he would comment on it.
I know BIL cares.
Maybe after a little break I will *reinstitute* my screen name and let X N it is up and running again. You are right that his written word will do him in. I need to stop letting myself get so upset by his words and learn to completely ignore them. Thanks bunny.
Mia
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((((((mia)))))). Hang in there, sister. You know I feel for you.
Getting the N's to expose themselves feels like such futility. I've decided to take as much energy as I can away from my exN. He demands my energy with constant threats, etc. as well. I respond as little as legally possible. I know I am in a better position than you are, with my kids being older, but it's not as if he suddenly "hears" them, though.
I've decided to let my attorney hold my boundaries. I've decided that if I start spending any thinking energy on him that I: stop, wait, not react right away. Just sit. then I decide whether to scream (first choice) alone or to my fiance, and then do what ever I can to say "this is insanity.....I won't hold onto this.....there is no rhyme or reason so don't bother with it" and let it go (takes a while...lots of visulization and breathing).
If it is something for my lawyer to deal with, I let her.
Then I tell myself to think about something else that I WANT (as opposed to what I don't want)....my thoughts are my own, so I get to decide: my personal favorites: what I am going to do with all my money when I am rich/win the lottery.....picturing my perfect home (that I designed, of course)....vacationing with kids and no ex in sight, etc etc. And I try to be grateful for what I do have right now that is wonderful (my health, my family, my kids, my house, my dogs....)
I have found out, in the midst of all this, that the best thing I can do for my kids is NOT actually fight my ex actively, but subversively. How?
I get happy. I show my kids the other way to do life. They like being around me because I am not always angry and worried.....they feel safer and more centered around ME. They see thier father and his wife obsessing and angry and scheming and controlling and negating ....and they want to be happy instead.
It's extremely hard to pull my energy away from this man, but if I can spend even half of that energy spent resisting what I DON"T WANT, and turn it into creating what I DO WANT, then I could be pretty darn happy.
I think this is what your BIL was talking about maybe.
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Oh my gosh, Mum! I can't believe it. My Mom just left here no more than ten minutes ago saying some of the same things you are saying here:
Then I tell myself to think about something else that I WANT (as opposed to what I don't want)....my thoughts are my own, so I get to decide: my personal favorites: what I am going to do with all my money when I am rich/win the lottery.....picturing my perfect home (that I designed, of course)....vacationing with kids and no ex in sight, etc etc. And I try to be grateful for what I do have right now that is wonderful (my health, my family, my kids, my house, my dogs....)
If two *Mums* are giving the same advice I better clean the wax out of my ears and listen.
My children are with their Dad tonight for a dinner date. My daughter has family night for her grade level at the elementary school. This will be the first time X N is going to attend a school related actitivity for the kids.
Around 6:30 PM Eastern ST please send good thoughts and positive energy my way as I will be sitting in a small classroom with X N.
I have already told myself that I am going to enjoy myself. Hopefully he will feel out of sorts since he doesn't know any of the other parents and he has never met the teacher. Even if he acts like he is Father of the Year, I will still smile. Hopefully I won't choke as I try to hold back my vomit. :wink:
Mia
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Mia:
N's really know how to pour on the charm when it is to their benefit. All the time you are watching just wanting to barf at it all. Surely your therapist is she has anything going on at all is not hoodwinked by all his blathering?
Hopefully when he goes to school tonight he will be just a sore thumb sticking out. Patz
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Sorry, Mia...missed your time zone thing (it's early here)...but although it is stressful, I have found that my ex is pretty much just tolerated in those school functions, maybe because I know all the parents at my daughter's school (I taught thier kids) but even at my son's school, I just get along with parents, teachers, better: one, because they know me (Dad is not usually around) and two: most a**h***s smell!
Teachers are there for kids, most parents are there for kids.....your ex and mine are there for themselves....and people feel that.
Hope you did fine (and think, by the time thier weddings come along, they might not even want to invite the jerk). Here's to happy thoughts (some days all I can muster is a vision of my dog attacking the tv....but it's happy)
MUM
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Mia and Mum,
by the time thier weddings come along, they might not even want to invite the jerk
I actually pray for this on a regular basis. Nothing would please me more.
Apparently, my a$$h*#@ has been laying guilt trips on my daughter lately because she doesn't spend enough time with him. Perhaps he should consider who was the one to walk out on her and hasn't attended one event of hers yet this year (and most of last year as well). I wish she had the guts to tell him to go pound sand up his a$$, but she is too sweet for that (I however, would have no problem at all. :twisted: ). She had her confirmation ceremony at church last night and he didn't even bother to show up. I guess he never thinks about the fact that these performances are not ever repeated.
I'm so sorry for what you two have to put up with from these jerks. At least mine rarely shows his face so I don't have to deal with him. I hope the school function went OK Mia. I'm sure nobody took his appearance seriously.
I'm continuing to pray that they all fall off the face of the earth. 8)
Brigid
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I wish she had the guts to tell him to go pound sand up his a$$, but she is too sweet for that (I however, would have no problem at all. :twisted: ).
Brigid, I love it, it's even more poetic than Vunil's masterpiece last week. May I use it? I am rolling on the floor!!!!!
((((((((Brigid))))))))
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Stormy,
I certainly can't take credit for that phrase. By all means use it to your heart's content. I think I picked it up from someone from the east coast (isn't that your territory?) many moons ago. I still like the sound of it tho. :wink: Comes in handy when dealing with the a$$holes.
Brigid
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I was nuts about a guy from Da Bronx for years. This sounds almost exactly like his poetic expressiveness, so yes I can believe it's an East Coast phrase. Love it!
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A haiku in honor of Vunil and Brigid.
S----- parents who
Set up children for abuse,
Pound sand up your a-- !!!!!!!!
[See, I said it was poetry :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ]
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How's everyone doing?
Last night turned out well. X N showed up (late of course)>>He had both kids with him so other Moms were asking me where the heck my kids were. Thankfully he arrived before the children did their performance.
It was obvious that X N was feeling out of place. He didn't know anyone and no one bothered to get acquainted with him. He was on my turf now and he felt it. :D
To top it all off my daughter's desk work was in a "family folder" and all her poetry, drawings, and writings focused on her family which included me, my husband, her brother, and her pet bird. Not one drawing or one mention of X N ANYWHERE. X N looked at the work in the folder and didn't show any concern of being "left out". I only hope that he doesn't take it out on her later. My other thought is that he could say this was an example of PAS. In reality it's an example of a Dad who never bothered to bond with his daughter.
Anyway, my daughter had a great time and was very happy and my son had a blast sitting in the audience watching his big sister.
Brigid,
My Dad used to love to use that expression. He grew up in Philadelphia. He would be happy to know that it is catching on. Heck, Stormy is already using it in her haiku. I bet my Dad wouldn't have thought this would be one of my fond memories of him. He was quite the character.
Mia
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A brief update: Since I cut off my email to X N I have been feeling more relaxed. I'm no longer full of dread when I need to hop on the computer.
For those of you who told me to keep the email so that I would still receive evidence of his insane ramblings...don't fret.....he has been sending even more correspondence through the mail. I haven't been responding to any of it and it seems he can't handle being ignored.
My daughter said she was filling out a contest entry form from her American Girl magazine and she asked her Dad how to spell my name. She told me that Dad started yelling at her saying that he doesn't know how to spell M's name and that he purposely has forgotten how to spell it. She said he screamed all of this.
Mia
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A brief update: Since I cut off my email to X N I have been feeling more relaxed. I'm no longer full of dread when I need to hop on the computer.
For those of you who told me to keep the email so that I would still receive evidence of his insane ramblings...don't fret.....he has been sending even more correspondence through the mail. I haven't been responding to any of it and it seems he can't handle being ignored.
My daughter said she was filling out a contest entry form from her American Girl magazine and she asked her Dad how to spell my name. She told me that Dad started yelling at her saying that he doesn't know how to spell M's name and that he purposely has forgotten how to spell it. She said he screamed all of this.
Hi Mia
Sorry you were dreading the computer, glad you feel safer there now. Also glad that he's continuing to incriminate himself in writing, over his actual signature now.
See what bunny thinks about this, but my gut is saying gee, maybe you should ask your daughter to tell your therapist how Prince Charming reacted to being asked to spell your name. Then hand her notarized copies of his correspondence.
It just disgusts me how willing people are to side with obvious manipulators.
((((((((((Mia))))))))))
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Dad started yelling at her saying that he doesn't know how to spell M's name and that he purposely has forgotten how to spell it. She said he screamed all of this.
What did she wish you'd do after hearing this?
bunny
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My God Mia,
I read your posts and I just get sick thinking about what you and your kids have to go through with this head case.
I'm saying extra prayers for you to get through this and for him to hang himself by his toenails with all his ridiculous letters.
(((((((Mia & Kids))))))))))
Brigid
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Something about pounding sand somewhere, too... let me think...
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Thanks everyone.
My daughter said she is afraid to tell the therapist b/c she will get in trouble. My next appt is two weeks away so i will talk to her about everything.
My daughter went to therapy on Sat. Her Dad took her and she told me she didn't tell the therapist anything about Dad b/c she thought her Dad was listening at the door. She said, "I think he knows that I hate him".
Basically, she will only talk to the therapist when I take her which will now be only 1 X monthly. I'm afraid that the the therapist will interpret this as the child is only negative when she is with me and not the correct way which is the child is too afraid to speak when her Dad is around.
Hoping I'm wrong.
Mia
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Basically, she will only talk to the therapist when I take her which will now be only 1 X monthly. I'm afraid that the the therapist will interpret this as the child is only negative when she is with me and not the correct way which is the child is too afraid to speak when her Dad is around.
If I were a child therapist I'd interpret this as the child only feels safe being negative when mom is there. Do you have your own therapist to whom you can relate these fears and get some advice? It seems like everyone has given total power over to the child therapist. That seems wrong.
bunny
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bunny
I don't have a therapist. I went to one during the divorce but didn't really connect with her. She was nice enough but I don't think she was very experienced.
I know it would help me and the kids to go to one.....I need to make the time. That has been my excuse.
Mia