Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: jdm on April 15, 2005, 10:26:02 AM
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I just need to put this somewhere. When I was a child, I was molested by a neighbor. It was not violent sexual abuse, but certainly it would have been enough, even by the standards of the day, to land the man in jail.
My parents eventually learned what was going on. My mother went and talked to the neighbor and his wife (I'm not sure that my father went), and it stopped--sort of. The man continued to watch the upstairs of my parents' house from the upper porch of his house (which was an apartment over a garage). He told me that he watched. We grew up without air conditioning, and there was a second-floor porch off one of the bedrooms. Throughout the summer, that porch door was left open, and it was directly opposite the man's porch. It was really creepy to see his cigarette in the dark on his porch.
Neither of my parents ever said a word to me about what happened. When the man died, I said to my mother that he was not a good person and I was not sorry that he was no longer on earth. She asked me why. I said, "Well, he molested me." She said she didn't understand why I had to bring that up, since it was nothing important, and that I shouldn't be so mean about the dead.
In the subsequent years, my father died. My mother, very lonely and socially inept, started spending time with his wife and her sister. Those two women have become my mother's main social support system.
Now the man's wife is dying. My mother has asked me to attend the funeral. Although I would certainly survive the experience, I'd rather not. I just don't want to honor these people in any way. I don't wish them harm, but I'd rather keep my distance.
I told my mother calmly that I just didn't want to attend the funeral. I asked if she could get one of my sisters to go with her. She said she didn't understand why I was being so cruel to her and keeping alive events that were "nothing" in the first place.
I have to admit, I feel very betrayed. I was somewhat surprised when my mother started to pal around with this man's wife. If it were my child, I would have never spoken to either of them again. I might even have moved if I could afford to do so--especially once I knew about the upper-porch thing.
Believe me, this has not been a dominant force in my life. But it did happen, and I feel pretty lousy that even after all these years, my mother won't understand that it had an aftermath.
If anybody reads this and thinks I'm just being ridiculously sensitive, I'll understand. Maybe my perspective is just wrong. I don't hate this man's wife--I asked her to my mother's 75th birthday party, I send her Christmas cards, I always speak politely to her when I'm visiting home--but I also know that she stayed with a man known throughout the neighborhood as a child molester. And I was one of his victims. And that makes me shudder a bit.
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I too was molested as a child, years ago. It was a time when we all lived the "Leave It to Beaver" life. Everything was great. If anything interfered with that "perfect" life-it was buried. No one wanted to talk about it-not like today at all.
I lived my life as you did, hiding the shame, going forward with dignity. But deep inside the "bitterness" does still lie. I do have empathy for you, I would not want to attend the funeral either.
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Your perspective is absolutely 100% correct.
What happened to you would be called stalking, as well as molestation, these days.
Your mother should be ashamed for her failure to protect and care for you. I know that if you had a daughter and she went through what you did, you would have done everything in your power to protect her, and hear her, and get her justice.
I'm sorry that your mother's denial has never been broken, and that her selfishness is still being put ahead of your welfare.
Are you working with anyone on these issues? Believe me, it can help tremendously to find the care and support later on, that you were denied when you needed it most.
I briefly dated a man whom I came to suspect of something just as vile as what happened to you - but I was never sure enough and never certain enough of the identity of the victim to report it. I couldn't get away from him fast enough. So I don't give the man's wife a pass, either.
(((((jdm)))))
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jdm,
I was molested at the age of 9 by my best friend's older brother. He was 14 and she was 11. She begged me not to tell any adults at the time because she didn't want her brother to get in trouble. So I never told my parents or any other adult. It wasn't until I had a daughter of my own that was getting close to that age that I began to realize the impact that event had on my life. I was so afraid something like that could happen to her and she might not tell me. To this day I can remember every detail of the experience, right down to the sounds and smells of what was around me.
It is a very traumatic experience to live through and I don't blame you at all for not wanting to honor this man's wife by attending her funeral. I'm not sure how my mother would have reacted had I ever told her about this, but I suspect it would have been the same as yours did (mine is now dead).
Brigid
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Hi jdm:
... just don't want to honor these people in any way. I don't wish them harm, but I'd rather keep my distance.
You have absolutely no obligation to attend that funeral and your feelings are totally valid. Anyone would probably feel the same.
Good for you for not wishing harm on your abuser/s! That is a good attitude and shows you are more than kind.
How dare your mother say that your molestation was "nothing important" and "nothing"!!!
Her response was nothing. Nothing useful or helpful or loving or motherish!! Sorry she hurt you over again. :( Sorry you had to go on pretending it didn't happen and being silent about the pain it caused you. :(
No wonder you felt/feel betrayed! She denied it was anything!! It was something---something wrong and sick and harmful! It's like calling you a liar! I'm sorry she didn't believe this was anything and I'm sorry how that must hurt too, almost worse! :(.
If anybody reads this and thinks I'm just being ridiculously sensitive, I'll understand. Maybe my perspective is just wrong.
Quite to the contrary. You are being more than reasonable. Some people might be tempted to go the funeral and cause a scene. Your perspective is very kind, considering some of the things you could think, or say, or do about the people involved, especially your mother. I admire your gentle way.
((((((((((jdm)))))))))
GFN
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Dear Brigid:
Sorry that happened to you. :( Sorry you didn't get any support over all that time. That must have been awful hard on you.
((((((((Brigid)))))))
Your daughter is lucky to have you! :!:
GFN
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Jdm, Guest and Brigid
You all have my anger on your behalf.
Jdm, it’s not worth staying around people who deny your reality so completely, presumably hiding their own fear, ignorance, self-hatred etc etc.
Sorry I’m too angry to say more. I’m sorry for all children who are used and abused. I wish I could hug you but my hugs might be too fierce right now. Portia
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I lived my life as you did, hiding the shame, going forward with dignity.
I'm sorry Guest, somehow I missed your post.
((((((((Guest))))))).
You did nothing wrong, Guest. Not a thing. Shame is for people who do something wrong (and we all do sometimes, I don't mean to say anyone is perfect). But you have done no wrong in this. Only your abuser is responsible, no matter what the circumstances.
Good for you for keeping your dignity and going ahead! You also, have not let adversity destroy you. That is also very admirable.
GFN
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oh brigid, oh guest...... how awful, i'm so sorry, oh god.
:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
i'm sitting with you and jdm too
crying for you
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jdm,
You handled it with aplomb by simply stating you weren't going. You don't have to explain, defend or justify it. If your mom doesn't like it, she can just deal with her own feelings. You've had to deal with yours without her help. She needs to get in touch with this reality -- you are no longer going to cater to her fantasies that nothing happened. If she doesn't like it, too bad. It's not your problem.
Brigid, I'm so sorry for what happened. :-(
bunny
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...I shouldn't be so mean about the dead.
...to which I would've responded, "OK, Mom, you want me to say something good about this dead guy? Here you go: 'he's dead...GOOD!'"
...I just didn't want to attend the funeral. I asked if she could get one of my sisters to go with her. She said she didn't understand why I was being so cruel to her and keeping alive events that were "nothing" in the first place.
I'm sorry, jdm---I know that this is your mother---but she has a really warped idea of what constitutes "cruelty." Keeping company with the spouse of your child's known molester is cruel, and trying to minimize or ignore the trauma inflicted upon your child at the hands of your neighbor is cruel.
Just hearing your story makes me want to yell at your mother(how dare she?!), so it goes without saying that I think you are one gracious human being for handling this the way you are.
Brigid and Guest: I am so outraged and sad for the child in each of you who was left unprotected and subsequently violated...I am so sorry.
PQC
(((((jdm, Brigid, Guest)))
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If anybody reads this and thinks I'm just being ridiculously sensitive
NO! Please don't ever think that about standing up for yourself.
I am so sorry to hear your story, and everyone else's story. I have a similar one, too, eerily similar.
The lackidaisical (however you spell that!) way in which my parents judged where I should spend time, and with whom, combined with their utterly unacceptably bland response when I told them what happened to me (30 years later-- I am not as brave as you, JDM!), combined with all of the stories here lead me to a conclusion I hope doesn't make anyone mad:
I think child molestation is so common because many parents let it happen. Certainly it can happen to the best parents, but I just don't think it would be so prevalent if there weren't such shitty parents out there who basically volunteer their kids for abuse.
I mean, look at these families who let their kids sleep alone with Michael Jackson years after the abuse allocations! (apologies if anyone feels he is innnocent-- maybe he is, but we can all agree that we wouldn't leave our little boy with him, just in case...)
JDM, I am so sorry. Don't go to the funeral! If you mother does not understand that you will not go to the funeral of the wife of a man who molested you, then she is nutty. (Sometimes typing out what is going on helps-- look what she is asking of you!). Feel free to look at her like she is insane when she asks you, laugh, and change the subject.
sending positive thoughts your way (and some anger toward you mother),
vunil[/quote]
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Shame is for people who do something wrong
The shameful feelings come because there was no physical pain in being molested. As sex should be, it did not feel "bad", phsysically. We were too young to know exactly how wrong it was in those days. No one talked about it.
I try to never think about that time. But this post has brought it to the surface again. I was 9, my sister was 7. We were both molested by our own brother-who was 11. It ended almost as soon as it started.
As an adult, I tried to sort through this childhood experience. Children are curious, could that be why it happened? Could that be why my mother never scolded my brother for it? Kids will be kids??
Or was it the fact that my brother had a Boy Scout leader who "liked" the boys a bit too much? The molested will become the molester??
We lived in a Catholic community. Many years after growing up, it came to light that many children had been molested in our community by a former priest who had then been "caught" in a bigger city nearby.
I still sometimes feel a twinge of anger at my mother for ignoring what was going on with her own children. And at a community that was always hiding something-you could just tell.....
But in the end, my siblings and I get along great now-we however, do not bring up that part of our past. But, I am sure that we all have a watchful eye out where our children, or any child for that matter, is concerned when it comes to any type of child abuse.
I am just so glad that TODAY we live in a time when children don't have to be afraid to speak.
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We were too young to know exactly how wrong it was in those days.
You didn't know it was wrong. There is no shame in that. There is no shame when wrong is not known about. It's like expecting a kid to know algebra in kindergarden. Children don't automatically know everything that's wrong or right.
If your mother taught you to steal and you stole and it didn't bother you to steal and it even was fun to steal and years later......you find out how wrong it was to steal and how much stealing hurt others.....
I understand how you feel shame about it,,, but if you did not know that it was wrong..... then how could you help stealing or enjoying stealing? Were you supposed to automatically know? You trusted your teacher. What crime is that?
If the person teaching you to steal is someone you feel trust for, how are you to know otherwise? You may get a natural feeling that something isn't right and stop or you may be convinced to ignor it and go on.
The shame belongs to the adults who violated the children (and taught them to steal....knowing full well how wrong it was!!) The shame belongs to whoever was abusing your brother (boy scout leader, priest???) for teaching him wrong.
I'm glad you and your sibs get along "great now"! That is wonderful to hear!
((((((Guest)))))
Hope the boy scout leader and priest were stopped!
GFN
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I know what you mean about the shame. It isn't rational. It's just there. For me, I always experienced it as a feeling that this shameful thing happened to me, and so I would seem shameful if I talked about it-- not that it was my fault, but that it was not something to mention. Almost like it was tacky, if that word makes sense. And I do think you have to be careful with whom you do tell because most people are not equipped to respond properly. The more I think about it, the more I think parents are the last people to tell. Unless they are very well adjusted, which is less likely with abused kids (because there is more of a chance of neglect leading to the abuse), then parents just don't respond properly. And when they respond badly, it can really hurt
Knowing that they will respond as if we have just picked our nose in public or something (and let us know we are to hush up and stop bringing it up) probably adds to that shame, unconsciously.
These memories live in the minds of seven year olds or whatever and aren't going to have logical adult reasoning to them. It took me years even to know what to call what happened to me-- my seven year old self didn't know. I knew it wasn't to be mentioned, but I didn't know the words for it. And also I secretly wondered if it happened to me because I was special-- the abusers always act like special friends who have singled out the child. So the shame comes from that, too, from not making it stop (even though we didn't know how to-- I'm not saying it's rational) and from liking the attention.
(Which I guess adds to my theory that often parents are to blame for abuse-- a child who felt accepted and loved wouldn't search out the attentions of someone else so much).
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Jdm
I think you are right not to go to the funeral.
I wondered as I read this thread what funerals are for, and why it is so important to your mother and sisters for you to go.
As I see it, funerals are firstly to allow us to say goodbye to loved ones, which is not the case here. Secondly, they are to allow us closure, which you do not need or want; if anything you want validation. And perhaps thirdly, they allow us to re-write history. I think this may be where you are wanted; to enable this rewriting to happen. Perhaps without you it cannot be as complete as others need. Good. You are perfectly right, and within your rights, to refuse to go.
I never yet went to the funeral of a scoundrel, or anyone who was married to a scoundrel, and if you look in a graveyard, they are full of saints and well beloved people. I have no idea where they bury the others. :lol:
So you know - we all know - that when we go to a funeral we are not going to hear anything objective. We are never going to hear what a b****** this person was, and how they beat their spouse, or abused their kids. It is going to be about how loving they were, and how kind, and how much they will be missed.
The best thing, in my view, is that if you cannot buy into this fake story (assuming it is fake) in advance, then you are best staying away, whoever it is. (I have told my best friends that if anything ever happens to me, stay away from the funeral. It will not be about me, it will be about my family's interpretation of who I am, and they know nothing whatever. So don't go.)
That shows no disrespect for the deceased, but also prevents you having to collude in the lies by being there. After all, there is no place in the funeral service where the minister asks; If there is anyone here who knows good reason why this person should not be accorded a Christian burial, they are to declare it now.' Perhaps this is just as well. :twisted:
Stay away, and be happy. I am sorry you were abused, and I am even more sorry that your family does not help you with this. Let the dead bury the dead. You just concentrate on living. :)
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I do not think you are being overly sensitive at all. I actually think that you are being a better women then I would be in that situation. How dare you mother! I wonder at times how some people justify their actions in their own minds. If it were my child this happened to I would have pressed charges immediately and that would be the end of that story. If I were your father, I would have taken justice into my own hands and pounded the guys face in.
It is the responsiblity of a parent to love, nurture, and protect their children and by gosh especially in a situation like this. Im sorry for what im about to say, but with a mother like that, I wouldn't even attend her funeral!
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Thanks to all of you for the hugs. It is not an easy subject for me to talk about and one I kept stuffed away for many, many years. The first time I brought it up as an adult was when I was part of a educational review board for the human growth and development curriculum for our school district. As I listened to people say that we shouldn't teach sex ed to children under the age of 11 or 12 I finally had to speak up and share why it was important that they know about their bodies and what is appropriate and inappropriate touch, etc., at an age younger than that. I didn't understand much of what was happening to me at that time because no one had ever explained my body to me.
I remember feeling very embarrassed to be talking about it and people had such shock on their faces. I think I have always felt that I could have prevented it and I should not have let it happen.
I agree with Vunil that parents can put children in situations that allow this to happen. That is what happened to me. My parents allowed their 9-year-old daughter to be out at night, "playing", alone, with a 14-year-old boy. They never even questioned why my friend was not with us. I cannot imagine ever having allowed that to go on in my home.
It sickens me to hear the stories of abuse of children, no matter what kind of abuse it is. It is all just so disturbing. When parents do not defend and support their abused children (assuming they weren't the abusers), they are only extending the abuse further.
I'm sorry for all of us who have had to endure this.
Brigid
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That shows no disrespect for the deceased, but also prevents you having to collude in the lies by being there. After all, there is no place in the funeral service where the minister asks; If there is anyone here who knows good reason why this person should not be accorded a Christian burial, they are to declare it now.' Perhaps this is just as well. :twisted:
HEAR HEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I think child molestation is so common because many parents let it happen. Certainly it can happen to the best parents, but I just don't think it would be so prevalent if there weren't such shitty parents out there who basically volunteer their kids for abuse.
Vunil, you nailed it. Nothing can improve upon this for precision, accuracy, or sheer poetic intensity of expression.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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So you liked the poetic use of the word "shitty?" :) I tried to think of a more intellectual word and couldn't get myself to change it...
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So you liked the poetic use of the word "shitty?" :) I tried to think of a more intellectual word and couldn't get myself to change it...
It's perfect, just the way it is. And perfectly on target. :twisted:
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brigid vunil & others - im just speechless. you are very very much in my thoughts.
jdm - how AWFUL to be told your feelings are nothing and by your own mother too. i agree, she has a very unusual definition of 'cruel'..... not only would i not go to that funeral but i would spend that whole day doing whatever makes -you- feel good. make it a self care day for loving yourself. whatever is a treat that makes you feel loved and special. and i -wouldnt- explain why. just a 'no thank you, i have other plans that day'
thats my suggestion.
d's mom
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I just want to thank everyone for the support. I was feeling really terrible when I completed this post, and it helped so much to have my feelings confirmed.
I do want to respond to something Vunil wrote:
I think child molestation is so common because many parents let it happen. Certainly it can happen to the best parents, but I just don't think it would be so prevalent if there weren't such shitty parents out there who basically volunteer their kids for abuse.
I mean, look at these families who let their kids sleep alone with Michael Jackson years after the abuse allocations! (apologies if anyone feels he is innnocent-- maybe he is, but we can all agree that we wouldn't leave our little boy with him, just in case...)
vunil
In general, I don't believe parents "volunteer" their children for abuse outside the home. The parents may be blind to it, they may handle it very badly once it is revealed, but I think they simply don't realize it could happen to their kids. Certainly, that was the case in a small town 30 years ago. Things are different now.
Which brings us to the Michael Jackson case. MJ is one sick puppy, IMO, but I'm not sure that he broke any laws. Child sexual abuse is, from a legal standpoint, quite technical. I once did a project where I had to classify a few hundred criminal code violations in one jurisdiction according to the FBI's much shorter list of crime categories. The sexual crimes were the most difficult. What is assault, what is forcible rape (the FBI category), etc. It was very revealing, for example, to learn how many sexual crimes are misdemeanors--in most places, no jail time at all!
Of course, when celebrity and great wealth come into play, people often lose their heads. I suspect that the woman who testified against Jackson would do anything to reverse the events that transpired--mostly, she wishes her head had not been turned by Jackson's shiny platinum credit cards. Since her son has not spoken to her in over a decade, I suspect something very bad happened to him. I suspect that he would say his mother pimped him. I suspect he would be right.
At any rate, I just wanted to say that I don't think it's right to blame the parents if the child is abused, particularly outside the home. (And often, inside the home, if the child is being abused, so is the mother.) Today's parents may be at once hyper-vigilant and woefully ignorant of what their kids are actually doing, but their intentions are, as always, good. And I don't think it's fair to draw parallels between Michael Jackson and any other human being on the face of the earth.
But even though I disagree with something you wrote, Vunil, I of course thank you for the words of support and encouragement. As I thank everyone else here. It helps--a lot.
jdm
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At any rate, I just wanted to say that I don't think it's right to blame the parents if the child is abused, particularly outside the home.
Hi, JDM--
I said in my original post that there were definitely cases that weren't the parents' fault, and it does happen to the best of parents despite their best intentions. The person who is most to blame is the abuser. But I do think that sometimes parents are guilty of a more minor offense, not for doing it but for allowing it. I think this because my parents are to blame for what happened to me.
We had someone on this list (I am sorry I can't remember who now!) whose parents sent their young son to a strange man's house for the summer. I mean.... ! All I was saying was that it would be much less common with more vigilent parents. It would still happen, of course, because weirdos do abound, and some will abduct kids, etc. But I have heard a lot of stories on this board that sound exactly like volunteering for abuse, and my story is like that, too. It's all unconscious, but parents do it.
As for poor MJ, I don't think they'll convict him and with that zoo of a trial I don't know that they should-- I was just speaking of a public example of parents not being as vigilent as they could have. And he paid them not to be. Yucky yuck all around, especially since MJ paid for the kid's expensive medical treatment. It's really awful and I do feel for everyone involved, especially if the mother is repentent. My parents, and a lot of parents, are not, which... is all I was saying :)
cheers,
vunil
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oops I think I highjacked the thread! I didn't mean to!
JDM I think we agree anyway-- I just didn't state my point subtlely enough.
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Hi everyone,
I tried to respond to this thread a few times but always deleted what I wrote because it was very angry and probably not very helpful. This is the best I can do.
Sometimes when I look at my wife and she doesn't know I'm looking my heart skips a couple of beats because she's so beautiful. And sometimes when I look at my twelve year old daughter my heart skips again because I'm afraid she may end up even more beautiful than her mom. I have been given the priveledge of guarding these two with my life.
I cannot conceive of the mentality of parents who would behave as many of yours did.
jdm, I cannot understand your parent's acting like it didn't happen.
Vunil, I can't understand your's not guarding you with their life.
I don't think they deserved to have beautiful little chldren to guard. I don't think they deserve much of anything other than scorn.
As far as I'm concerned there are things in this world that scuttle between rocks and slither in and out of their dank little burrows and they even sometimes sit on their porch at night smoking a cigarette watching their neighbors daughter in the dark.
I would like to step on these things until their insides come out and their scaly hard tails start flicking from side to side and they die.
Guest, little boys who have never been taught right from wrong aren't these things that need to be stepped on, but I am sure it still hurts.
And Brigid, I wish I could step on the thing that touched you.
I know someone who was touched by one of these things when she was small. I am the only person she has told. Fortunately for the thing that touched her he was already dead when I found out. Or maybe not so fortunate. A wise Man once said it would be better for someone who harmed one of His little ones to have a millstone hung around his neck and be cast into the sea.
(((((the little ones here)))))
mudpup
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shock and dismay...for all of you who had such experiences. Your honesty and perserverence is humbling. Bless you.
Mud: you are the kind of parent parents should be and what we all aspire to. Lucky wife, lucky daughter.
Love to everyone.
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JDM? how are you? What ended up happening with your Mom?
thinking about you ! Hoping things got resolves in a way that was comfortable for you.