Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Bliz on April 21, 2005, 06:14:51 PM
-
That's what I think this will sound like to you guys. First squabbling over summer camps and now this. But you have all been so much help to me in my journey to regain my voice, power, centeredness, I have to throw it out there anyway.
The brother that I work with is about to liquidate most of his assets and make a foray in to a real estate venture that will probably pan out well for him. He has actually asked my advice and I have encouraged him. He will not sell his house or the office. It was a bold move but he has has pretty good instincts.
I felt great about it until I found out today my father is financing a large part of the venture through a supposed "loan" with a written document against the parents estate. This is not the first time my father has throw money at a brother when a certain venture caught his eye.
I on the other hand made several suggestions for joint ventures over the years, none of which Dad was willing to consider. If he had made some of the real estate investments I had suggested years ago in Florida we would all be millionaires. I made a personal investment the personal investment in Florida that has panned out well for me, at least on paper. I didnt even tell the parents about it until afterward. I had gone to Dad for advice only and he wouldnt even talk about it with me.
It hurts on the one hand and angers me on the other. I was honest and told both Mom and Dad that it bothered me and wasnt consistent and seemed that the formula was "whoever came up with the best plan wins."
I wouldnt even want their money, on so many levels, but it hurts to know that my ventures weren't considered, "good" enough or whatever to try for them. I also felt that if the brother took the risk on his own it might be a great life lesson for him. Now his head will just swell more.
Trust me I live pretty close to the vest. I am the only sibling who really sturck out on their own. I moved away at an early age because I really had no choice. They wouldnt let me in the original family business because there was a "no women allowed" rule. I moved to Florida and had every menial job in the world. I could have used their help but I didnt get it.
In many ways, I am glad I have done it all on my own, but on the other hand maybe I should come up with some wild scheme to get money. The thing is I probably couldnt live with myself, but hey if they are handing it out. I am driving a 10 year old car. Need many renovations at home including a new roof.
I guess I just dont get the logic or is it just another the boys get it because they have kids or just because they are men?
The middle brother wil probably be ballistic. He already is the "angry" brother over stuff like this. There goes working together for the trailer deal. All that work down the drain. AARRRRRHH!!
Again it seems trivial compared to some of the things people are going through but I believe it is still about the same general issues if you all can only help me sort it out.
-
Bliz,
I honestly think you are some kind of a saint for being able to to function in the middle of such recriminations, injustice and unfairness.
It doesn't sound like a little problem to me, it sounds like something that would make the average person tear their hair out, or maybe tear your family's hair out.
Do you really want to be in the middle of your familiy's stuff all the time. It sounds like you are just there to make others look good while doing the hard and dirty work. Am I right?
I wish you could somehow strike out on your own professionally and stop the manipulation and use of your good nature and talents. Not possible?
I'm glad you have a voice here at least, even if they won't listen.
mudpuppy
-
You are sweet, Mudpup,
Thanks for the encouragment. I guess that is another reason I moved away so long ago. I came back for a variety of reasons but also because my parents were getting older.
Of course, my Mom said today that she knew I would be upset and couldn't I just be magnanimous? Boy, how many of you have heard something like that before? In effect, choke down your feelings and put on the happy face. That kind of behavior nearly killed me several times.
Could I strike out on my own professionally. Of course. I guess I still think there are advantages to staying . Actulaly the diving of the work has gotten much better and we ar finally doing it ourselves. One good thing that could come out of this is he may not be here as much which could be like striking out on my own. I guess in the one sense I hope I can stick with it until retirement which is closer but not that close.
I so appreciate having this place to vent. I can not tell everyone how long I have suffered in silence with this behavior. LIke i said it nearly killed me. Just to have others verify that my gripes are legitimate is huge.
-
Bliz,
LIke i said it nearly killed me.
It seems to have nearly killed quite a few of us here.
And the sick thing is they think that's funny, or we should be 'magnanimous' about being driven to the point of death by their antics.
Whats really sobering to think about, is how many people aren't posting here that we'll never know about who weren't nearly killed by their Ns; they were killed. Not directly maybe, but they're still dead.
mud
-
That is so well said and truly magnanimous. I have been debating what I do at this point. Write my parents a letter and tell them how this feels. Say hey, cut everybody a check. That would be the fair thing to do.
I can feel it is hitting all those "hot" buttons. All the breaks the guys got from jobs or businesses handed to them, to this type of thing. It makes me feel bad about myself, like there is something wrong with me. I know there isnt, but obviously my parents think the boys are more worthy or lets say worth more if you put a dollar amount on it. HOw sad and sick.
The strange part to this story is there is my other brother. It will be interesting to see how he takes it. He has gotten some compensation over the years but it was mostly through a renovation run through the company that didnt cost him anything. It was probalby 40-50,000 dollars.
My mother's response to this is well they have helped us all. Last summer out of the blue my parents offered to pay to have my hallway redone. I said sure. The total cost was like 2600. So let's see, brohter one is worth ---,---. Brother 2 gets ---,---. Brother three gets the renovaiton worth 50,000 and I get my hallway done.
How do you not feel bad about yourself? How do you process these feelings?
-
How do you not feel bad about yourself? How do you process these feelings?
Pity them for not being capable of seeing what a wonderful person you are and not taking the opportunity to enjoy you in their lives while they have the chance. (((((((((Bliz))))))))
-
I don't know how families stay involved in business ventures. In mine, we would all have killed each other long ago.
I can speak to one aspect of your story. My mother (who is an out-of-the-ball-park Narcissist, but that's for another day), grew up as the child of a relentlessly "heliocentric" mother. Everything revolved around the sons. My mother was the only one who gave a damn about my grandmother, but none of it ever registered. Everything was for and about "the boys." The boys who took her money, insulted her, and ultimately abandoned her--but always sent gigantic flower arrangements to the nursing home as visible evidence of their..what? Concern? Guilt? Social hypocrisy?
My mother is much the same. My brother, who can be selfish and downright cruel, walks on water. There is no money to speak of, but my brother received privileges in his childhood that the rest of us (three girls) could not even dream about. So I do know something about where the resentment and the longing for validation (in spite of your best instincts and your resolves) come from.
Common sense tells me, "Hang in there and keep them at arm's length." I don't know how possible that is given how interconnected your lives are. Every emotion you're having is completely understandable. I'd be furious and hurt, and probably tell somebody off. So I admire your restraint.
And always remember, they are not your measure. Family is a very bad mirror; do not trust the image of you that they reflect.
Not much help, but I just wanted you to know that I sympathize.
-
Thanks again for the kind thoughts and encouragment. My parents probably do think I am a wonderful person. That is why I just can't process this type of inequity. I am a little old for them to hope some rich guy marries me and takes care of me, kind of thing. I wouldnt want that anyway.
I try to put myself in their shoes. Imagine it is my nieces etc and I had to dole out the, (whatever..love, cash, etc.), I would be bending over backwards to try to be fair. It would just kill me to think that one of them thought I loved the other more. I mean how to the parents justify it in their head. I would love to know.
-
Bliz,
I'm going to be straight here. Your parents are sadistic to dangle wealth and privileges to your brother(s) while throwing you a few crumbs. It's very, very cruel. My sister is married to a "man" whose family is much like yours. Someone comes up with a risky business proposition and they get the father to finance it, to the financial loss of everyone else. The family is constantly squabbling over money, who is getting a loan, etc. In these families, money = parental love. It's a very very cruel way to parent a family.
Anyway I think an option (perhaps strange to you) is to detach from the money, accept that they will give your brothers the money, and know as little as possible about who is getting money from dad. The "who is getting what" stuff is very enmeshing and keeps you trapped in their dysfunction. Another option is to first tell them how unfair and hurtful it is, and see if they can be 'magnanimous.' If they flunk that test, then emotionally detach from their fortune and have a relationship with them based on non-monetary things. I know that sounds like more punishment but it's liberation.
bunny
-
To Bunny and Day Lilly
Thank you for your thoughts and validation. It helps to know there are other families out there where this goes on. I did tell both of them, (the parents), that it bothered me. Told both of them that everybody could use the money. I am thinkng about what, if anything, I may say further.
It does seem to be that love=money. And I wonder what great sin I committed to be so unloved? I have always been the one to struggle, even though I was very good in school and resourceful also. WHen you think about it I have done very well despite them.
In past years I have detached from the money. I think that is why it is so very difficult now to have it all come up again. I mean this reaches deep to things going back to my high school years. I am so pissed off that all that stuff has come back for me again.
I just may ask for a check against the estate also. Will be very interesting to hear what the other brother who is kind of left out of these things feels and has to say.
I guess for now I will try to write my thoughts down in a letter. Hopefully that exercise will help me process my feelings and decide what if anything to do next. It is such a double bind. So many people think I am rich just because my parents appear that way. Nothing could be further form the truth. I work hard at two jobs to make a living. So I kind of get it on both ends sometimes.
In the midst of all this, Dad says to me out of the blue, "I always thought you would adopt a child." I dont know where this came from. I said I thought about it or having a child on my own but didnt think it was fair to the child. I also told him there were other reasons. THose other reasons were I was afraid I couldnt adequatley support the child. I couldnt see at the time how I could work, afford day care etc. Guess that could have been one of my master plans to get money.
I think you guys know the victim mentality is not the way I will go. I just need to process this and get it out. This board helps so much. Also I have a therapy appointment next week.
Please keep you thoughts and advice coming. It is so helpful.
-
It does seem to be that love=money. And I wonder what great sin I committed to be so unloved? I have always been the one to struggle, even though I was very good in school and resourceful also. WHen you think about it I have done very well despite them.
Your sin was being a female in a strictly male-centered family. You are wise to do well without them.
I just may ask for a check against the estate also. Will be very interesting to hear what the other brother who is kind of left out of these things feels and has to say.
My unsolicited advice is to avoid hearing anything your brother has to say. It only keeps you enmeshed in the dysfunction.
In the midst of all this, Dad says to me out of the blue, "I always thought you would adopt a child." I dont know where this came from. I said I thought about it or having a child on my own but didnt think it was fair to the child. I also told him there were other reasons. THose other reasons were I was afraid I couldnt adequatley support the child. I couldnt see at the time how I could work, afford day care etc. Guess that could have been one of my master plans to get money.
YOUR FATHER HAS NO BUSINESS IN THIS. Do not explain, justify or tell him why you have/don't have children. He is intruding and putting MONEY into this deeply private issue. I hope you'll bring it up with your therapist. Geez...your father is quite a piece of work.
bunny
-
Bliz,
As bunny said, I'm going to be straight as well.
I hear me a few years back, when I hear you.
To an outsider looking in it appears you are really being screwed and taken advantage of. I know you recognize that to a certain extent, but when you're still on the inside it is difficult to see just how much you're being given the shaft, and I don't mean primarily the money.
Until I extricated myself from my brother's system I could not see just how tangled up and used I had been.
Also from the outside looking in, it often sounds as though you are giving way more defense to your parents behavior than they deserve. While I was in the 'system' I could recognize how my brother was treating others but I would still defend his behavior to outsiders.
I wonder how differently you would view your family after a few months of you being on the outside looking in?
I know you love your parents, as you probably should, but you need to love yourself enough to prevent the damage it seems they are still doing to you.
How do you not feel bad about yourself?
You are a good and decent person. For them to perennialy reward the creepy N men in your family while devaluing you, means there is something wrong with them not you.
mudpup
PS. What are the odds of your parents cutting you a check for your share of the estate? That sounds like the source of their control over your family. Cut check=no control over bliz.
-
Everyone please continue to be honest. You do not have to worry about being to "tough love" with me. I appreciate the straight forward approach.
When you say get outside the system I guess I am curious as to what you mean? I have worked outside the system of the family all my life and that gave me no peace. In many ways, having this job where I have more autonomy and freedom due to the nature of the job has helped both my self esteem and feelings of empowerment. This is only my take on it but I believe I worked out the refuse from the family dynamics probably at every job I ever had. I feel like here at least I am dealing with the root cause of these things.
I disconnected from the family many times when I was younger and lived far, far, away. In my mind I had more problems there and then just felt disconnected from the family to boot. When I did see them it was even worse, because I had no skills in dealing with it.
If I disconnect from the family I also disconnect from the nieces and nephews I love dearly so I dont think that will help me.
I am not trying to defend my position or attack anyone that has said to disconnect or otherwise get away from the situation. I hope it does not appear that way. I guess I dont know exactly what you mean..switch jobs, leave town? I guess I think it is simplistic to think that leaving this job or leaving town will solve the problem. I dont think it will. Or maybe I believe that fighting the issues out with the people that are causing the problems is healthier than fighting these same battles with other people. Dont know.
I defintely want to disconnect from the drama etc., and not let my self esteem suffer becuase of their behavior. Posting, venting and brainstorming here has really helped that. Please feel free to give me your impressions.
-
Hi Bliz,
By getting outside the system I'm not necessarily suggesting cutting them off. I'm suggesting maybe trying to disconnect emotionally.
Its possible to go to a Tibetan monastery in the Himalyas, not contact your family at all, and still be enmeshed emotionally with them.
Have you ever really been substantially emotionally independent of them?
Why was it worse or harder when you were away from them?
Just how N are these people? They sound uniformly unpleasant, but perhaps they are more tolerable than many other Ns.
I never thought you were attacking anyone. Just the give and take of learning about each other. :wink:
mudpup
-
Thanks, Mudpup,
When I left this area after college and lived away from here for about ten years, I believe I was emotionally disconnected from them. They could not harm me there. However, in some ways I think their behavior got worse. My much younger brohters were probably thrilled to have me gone as I was a source of influence at one time, while still in the house. At least to some extent.
The gradual taking over by the eldest brother and eventually the others may have happened anyway if I left town or not. Since I was away from them it gave them more fodder to discount any power I had when I was home. It was easier to dismiss me I think.
This is a hoot. They actulaly had a family meeting when I decided to move back to this area, 20 years ago. I am thinking..what was that about? They could not control me at that point.
In some ways I have made great strides haveing come back and faced them. I was able to gain my own credibilty and measure of success here from other sources, which helped my self esteem greatly. Obviosuly things still come up which impact me. SUppose that is why I am here.
My mother and I have vastly improved our relationship since I have been back in this area. That alone was worth coming back for. I suppose my father's and my relationship haev also improved. Still you see it does effect me.
They may not be as bad as others but maybe just horribly archaic in their attitudes. That is the hardest part of all for me. Here I am a independent woman who has made it on their own without becoming callous. A loving person, an attractive person and yet so often discounted for being female, I suppose.
-
How do you not feel bad about yourself?
Hi, Bliz--
I really would like to second everyone here, and especially Bunny's first post. I know it seems impossible now, but is there any way to not know who is getting what? And not to count on any money from them? I think what is bothering you is not the inequity, which you know already, but the constant reminders of it.
Also, I have been reading about narcissistic families a lot, and one favorite unconscious game they have is to watch the kids compete with each other. They encourage competition among the siblings. So no wonder you are looking so closely at what your siblings get! It is part of the whole pathology.
This may sound radical and even stupid, but what about making a mental decision not to take money from them? You can inherit from them when they are gone, but as long as they are here-- could you just let all of the money floating around just not concern you?
I have parents similar to your parents, and the only way to really continue to deal with them, for me, was to just think of whatever money came their way as their money, nothing to do with me. It bugs me that they don't set up any trust funds for the grandkids or do anything like that to show generosity, but they don't. It bugs me that they can be so cheap with their loved ones, and then turn around and be extravagently luxurious in their spending for themselves. It bugs me that my father never acknowledged the piles of money he made from a business venture I suggested. In fact, he doesn't even remember that I helped him with it! Convenient N memory.
But I just think of it as a gift I gave him. And that's that. I do better if I just don't let myself even know what they are up to, financially. If I don't know and don't expect any different, then that helps. As my sister says about them "all rivers flow to them." We just know it about them and never consider them in our financial planning.
This may be very difficult to do. And I could be wrong that it's the answer. But it is what my instinct is saying, so I hope it helps!
Could you give up the money in return for freedom?
-
Yea, I am still processing this. I havent asked them for money in a long,long time. They offered some money to do the hallway. My father felt the need to tell me as I assume he is telling everyone. SO I guess I am saying that I feel I have disconnected from the money. But it seems ridiculous that I should continue to struggle year after year while they are just handing it out to some of the brohters.
I hear what you are saying and will seriously think about it. Tonight I think I have been too much of a sucker by not having my hand out more
I just had a long discussion with a friend of mine and we both agreed we could never do this to sibling, kids, nieces that we love. That is the hardest part of all to accept.
-
I just had a long discussion with a friend of mine and we both agreed we could never do this to sibling, kids, nieces that we love. That is the hardest part of all to accept.
I know-- I'm so sorry you are having to deal with it. It is not very great behavior on their part.
-
Hi Bliz,
I just had a long discussion with a friend of mine and we both agreed we could never do this to sibling, kids, nieces that we love.
Its terrible that they don't value you, their good and kind child the way they do your chump brothers.
However the silver lining is you are good and kind. You're not one of the Ns of the world. I know its not too much consolation when you're gettin' it in the neck, but at least you're worthy of respect and love, even if you don't get it from the ones you should.
(((((Bliz)))))
mudpup
-
Hey Bliz
I've been quiet on this because I went through something very similar.
My folks decided to disinherit me because my poor only sibling was such a basketcase and I could take care of myself. They expected me to execute a will disinheriting myself... anyway, their lawyer talked some sense into them, but then my father passed away first. So before my mother died, she made sure my sib destroyed the most recent copy of the will and did a few other legally questionable things.
I forced the estate into judicial probate and then relinquished my interest therein. My sib had intended to strip the assets and I would have gone broke keeping the estate solvent since I was the only one with any income or savings.
My sib's lawyer figured out real quick who the jerk was, and forced my sib to meet the terms of the will that was preserved, which stipulated reimbursement of all costs associated with preservation/maintenance of the estate... heh heh heh, that meant I got every penny of court costs back, plus funeral costs (you know who paid for the funeral etc.). Plus, as it turned out, a small life insurance policy payment which had been overlooked by my parents somehow and of which I was sole beneficiary. My sib got the entire residue of the estate and was still whining because I got my expenses and this beneficiary payment... apparently the lawyers started making noises about prosecutable offenses related to the disappearing of the current will, and my sib shut up and paid.
Here is the fascinating thing. I got the checks all within the space of about a week, and in each case, as soon as I opened the envelope, I was overcome by nausea. Literally overcome. I had to drive to the bank with the checks in the trunk of my car, I couldn't even have them in the same space with me, I could barely even touch them. It felt like I was profiting from the death of someone who had hated me, it felt like blood money, it felt like a price on my dead mother's head. And it literally sickened me.
My sib's lawyer knows how to find me. And knows that if my sib ever needs a bone marrow transplant or a sliver of liver the lawyer can call me, but forget it if it's a kidney. I'm willing to consider donating anything that I can grow back, but that's the limit of it. And that's the only reason I ever intend to hear from my sib again.
-
My mother (who is an out-of-the-ball-park Narcissist, but that's for another day), grew up as the child of a relentlessly "heliocentric" mother. Everything revolved around the sons.
Daylily, this is magnificent phrasing. Absolutely magnificent. It is almost an anodyne, it's so gorgeous.
hats off to you.
-
Hi Stormy,
I don't know if this was supposed to be funny or not,
My sib's lawyer knows how to find me. And knows that if my sib ever needs a bone marrow transplant or a sliver of liver the lawyer can call me, but forget it if it's a kidney. I'm willing to consider donating anything that I can grow back, but that's the limit of it.
but it cracked me up. One of my sibs would be lucky to get a sliver of liver from me, unless it was a side order with onions. :(
mudpup
-
half and half, mud. Dark humor. (what am I, chopped liver?)
fortunately, my sib wasn't quite as bad as Hannibal Lecter.
-
Sorry you had such a family Stormy.
There's plenty of good sibs here to take up the slack. 8)
My wife and daughter are out tonight, so I got myself a pizza (the cats away) and ate too much.
Oh lordy what kind of shape would I be in if I wasn't married to someone who looks out for me? Spherical probably. :lol: :wink:
Hope everyone has a good evening and weekend.
mudpup
-
I am up in the middle of the night thinking about this..never a good thing in my book. Stormchild, thank you for your story. I am sorry also that you had to go through all this. It happens way too many times in families.
Very interesting about the checks. It is not quite the same feeling but I have never been good about asking anyone for money. I am on a community board of directors, where that is one of the board members primary goals..to ask other people for money. I fail miserably at it. I thought last night maybe I need to examine my own attitude towards money. Maybe that the only way I am allowed to have it in my book is to work my tail off, be creative etc. IN other words some feeing, that I dont deserve it , if it just to come to be. I dont know. THis is not the same thing and Stormchild's story but it is 2:40 am and babbling incessantly is about all I can do at this point.
I started a letter to the folks yesterday and added to it now. It has some of the themes I have been playing out here. I am tempted to talk to both of them tomorrow. Dad wants to see me to talk about the river trailer thing. Part of me thinks that is his way of "making nice." Like. "see your goals are still importatnt to me." Or that somehow he equates this to handing my brother a huge check. I think what is keeping me up tonight is thinking I have to go over there tomorrow and act normal which I dont feel right now. AND it is back to the horribly dysfunctional, "keep your mouth shut," "keep the peace", restraints I grew up with.
Anyway I digressed a little, but I am thinking of saying to both of them I wish they hadnt done this. It is bad for the family, causes discension among the siblings. He should know this as he did it many years ago for another brother and it caused a schism that still is not totally healed.
Maybe then going into my love=money scenario,how it makes me feel, etc. They will try to interject but I may even ask them to let me get it all out before they comment. Sunds a little dictatorial but I am doing it for myself and dont want to be dissuaded.
What do you think?
I will have to pick my words carefully and I am sure they will want to counter everything immediatley but maybe part of my regaining my voice is getting this out. It's a pretty short letter at this point but e>c
-
What I think:
Unfortunately a letter will not change people's long-held, unquestioned beliefs. My strategy would be to write a short letter about feeling hurt, excluded, and not given enough credit for my accomplishments when I try so hard to gain their approval. I would NOT mention that money = love in this family! Don't go there! That equation is for you to keep in your mind and talk about in therapy. They can't hear it! Okay?
bunny
-
Well, I didnt get Bunny's advice until later and I did actually talk to the folks. I had the letter with me but didnt read it.
Basically the following was said:
*********************
I love both of you and no amount of money would ever make up for the loss of you being gone when you have passed away.
That being said. I wish you hadn't given the money to ____ for a variety of reasons. Like ____, (older brother) said, maybe you should have talked to the rest of us first.
Let's face it on some level, love=money and I would have to say I feel it on that level. I don't know how you put a price on a sibling. I tried to put myself in your shoes and imagine if I could do it with the nieces and the nephews and I don't think I could give a chunk of money to one and not the others, because it would hurt their feelings.
I think it is bad for the sibling dynamics. Here we are attempting to embark on a venture together, the river trailer that has been fraught with childhood dynamics already, and once again this is thrown in the mix. I would think you would have seen when you did it for _____, (older brother ), that this wasn't a good idea.
I don't think it is a good idea for ____. What have we all struggled with ____? His immaturity, the way he treats people, his sense of entitlement. This just further enables him to think his behavior is OK. I could see a real change in ____as he struggled to make this huge decision. A change towards more humility. It would have been better to let him do it on his own.
If love equals money I have to wonder what great sin I have committed that one brother is financially supported for life, another handed a business and now 200,000 yet I am never given this opportunity? I could seriously use money for a lot of reasons. I struggle weekly to get my fair share of work because of _____'s archaic idea of women. And I struggle on the family level continually for equal treatment. This hurts.
I also asked repeatedly for them to explain how they could single out one sibling and not be concerned about the effect on the others? I said it seems like whoever has the best plan wins and realistically you should cut a check for everybody.
******************************
They listened mostly without getting mad but eventually said they could do whatever they wanted with their money and that everybody would be taken care of in the end. I pushed a little farther for trying to figure out what classification they had me in where they either thought I didnt need the money or didnt deserve it for whatever reason.
Evenutlly Dad was geting mad and close to storming out saying heatedly, "Well, just what did I want? I was going to have to tell him what I wanted?" I had already said I thought he should do the same for everybdoy and I could use a loan too but I dropped it at that point and we eventually returned to our lunch afer a few tense minutes.
I doubt I would pursue money from them but did feel good that I got it out. I did it for me. I feel better so maybe it was the thing to do.
Input very much welcomed.
-
Bliz, I'm proud of you. Even though they didn't come around, you called them on the game. THEY KNOW YOU KNOW, As long as that was for you, and you don't look for anything significant from them, it may do a lot of good. For you. Inside.
Yeah... I've had plenty of bonuses from jobs and even gifts from relatives ($) and never felt at all ill at ease. The nausea I felt in connection with money from my mother's estate was directly linked to the fact that I was getting the money because (a) my mother, who hated me, had died before I did and (b) my sibling, who also hated me, was foiled in efforts to harm me and constrained, ultimately, by his own lawyers.
So it was a legacy from hate, received in spite of hate, and it just felt AWFUL to profit from a death in that way. Especially given who it was who died, and what the relationship between a mother and her firstborn is supposed to be. Geeeahhh, I feel queasy again now, just thinking about it.
But you know what? I deposited the checks, and kept the money, except for the part I donated to charity as almsgiving. I was able to see that it was simply replacing what I had spent, plus a very modest inheritance that I would have felt quite pleased about if there hadn't been any hate involved.
-
Thanks for the encouragemnt, Stormchild. I still do feel good about it. It is like a great weight has lifted from my chest. I hope they do "know, that I know." NO more "keeping the peace" and "seen and not heard" from me. It hurts to stand up to your parents and say these kind of things, but it also hurts to keep it inside.
I would have done that in the past. I would have ruminated and stewed about it for weeks but put on the "happy face' in front of the family. IT would have killed me inside, once again.
Thanks to the board and the ability to see what voicelessness has cost me, I am starting to feel freer at different moments. Thank you to everyone who takes the time to help me.
Stormchild, I do feel for your position. It is a little like my mother's own mother. It wasn't recived in hate but more the love never recieved from her mother. She never had a good relationship with her mother who most probably is a classic nar.
Mom's Mom didnt have much but she left Mom nothing and Mom was the one stuck dealing with her for years. We got pictures and furniture and some minor jewelry but she left nothing in the will to Mom, her only surviving child. She left what small amount of money there was to her 19 grandchildren and great grandchildren. It wasnt much a piece but was a blessing of sorts.
Not being mentioned at all in the will, hurt my mother, I know. I considered bringing this up today as an example of unfairness that was hard to justify, but decided against it.
-
Bliz,
Wow. That took a lot of guts. Too bad your Dad is a sexist and doesn't see that you are the successful son he wanted. He is such a loser, I'm sorry to say. I wonder if you will actually change things around there. It might happen. Well done!!! :lol:
bunny
-
Bunny,
Thanks for hte encouragment. I know I still feel very good about it and actually had to go places with Mom and Dad today and didnt feel the anger I am sure I would have if I hadnt said my peace.
They probably have changed over the years. If you can believe it, I think it was actually worse at one time. Will they change more, who knows? I never looked at it as how I could never do that before. Like trying to pick out a neice or nephew and do the same. I just couldnt do it, which makes it so much the harder to understand. I am glad I used that line.
Dad is so big on equality among the siblings in so many other ways it is even more difficult to undersatnd. Come to think about it maybe it is only equality when it serves his purpose. Like he wants 100% consensus on the trailer when only the older brother is holding it up. I have already told Dad it better be majority rules or we will never get it done.
-
Here is an amazing one:
I have a premature baby at 25 weeks who had a 50-50 chance of survival. At the time she has been in the hospital for over 2 months. We still don't know longterm outcomes and if she'll need money for therapies, wheelchair, etc. I am in hell. Bills are incredible. My rich dad....
Buys my sister, who is married to a guy whose dad has 30 million dollars from selling his company, a new BMW suv. Reason? "she just got a big dog and needs the space". I got nothing to help my baby!
Sorry, not trying to play a one-up game, but girl I feel your pain. Money is a language in the hands of the dysfunctional. Awful, confusing, sad. I finally confronted him, and the response was "well, she asks". I get punished for being "sensitive". Maybe you're a truthteller too.
-
"Well, she asked." That is interesting. That was what my Dad was yelling when he was ending the conversation..."well, what do you want? Tell me what you want?" I had already told him I thought he should write a check to everybody. I doubt I will pursue it.
Here is a bit of irony. My furnace went out yesterday. This is a business my father is in. Naturally he has somebody down there replacing the motor as we speak. I told him I could contact somebody else but he had a guy here bright and early. I am sure in his mind this equals a $200,000 check as my Mother has said that repeatedly, "well we help everybody."
Somehow they equate any help with handing out huge checks or giving someone lifetime employment or a business. I called Dad up this morning and told him he didnt have to send anybody I could take care of it. So I guess now I am also a money whore.
They told the "angry" brother finally and apparently he doesnt have any problem with it. I doubt this seriously, but my Mother said, "He never mentioned it again" Again, the voicelessness theme, in my book.
This brother has had a ton of what I would call anger related illnesses. He is only 44 and had his entire large intestine removed, several years ago, due to IBS. I am thinking he just hasnt processed his feelings yet as he is known for never giving up on a grudge.
His attitude with me was resigned. Like, "not like they havent done this before." Not that I want him to be mad about it but now I do look like the bad guy.
-
Here is a bit of irony. My furnace went out yesterday. This is a business my father is in. Naturally he has somebody down there replacing the motor as we speak. I told him I could contact somebody else but he had a guy here bright and early. I am sure in his mind this equals a $200,000 check as my Mother has said that repeatedly, "well we help everybody."
Let him help you.
Somehow they equate any help with handing out huge checks or giving someone lifetime employment or a business. I called Dad up this morning and told him he didnt have to send anybody I could take care of it. So I guess now I am also a money whore.
I think he heard you the other day but he can't change his old ways overnight. This seems like a sign that he's trying.
His attitude with me was resigned. Like, "not like they havent done this before." Not that I want him to be mad about it but now I do look like the bad guy.
I don't know how you look like the bad guy, but if you do, does it matter? Do you think you could ever get on this brother's good side and stay there? I don't see how it's possible.
bunny
-
Ellen,
When you're dad said "Well she asks" did you, at that point, ask also?
If you did, did he help you out?
If you didn't do you think he would?
Its sickening that you would even have to ask your own father with help for his tiny little helpless grandbaby.
Sorry for the hell you are going through.
Prayers for your tiny one.
mudpup
-
Hi Bliz,
You know listening to you describe your family, it dawned on me that in some ways it might be better to have truly impossible, insufferable Ns to deal with.
When their behavior is so egregious that you have to cut off contact altogether, it at least puts an end to new hurts. The damage they do might be a little more acute but at least it has an end.
When they are marginally tolerable and their behavior is not so bad that it kills whatever affection you have for them, it can be even tougher it seems to me.
You get a little sign of improvement, but then a kick in the teeth. A bone tossed your way and then a big juicy pork chop tossed your brother's way.
I think that might be a harder situation to deal with in the long run.
They can't disappoint you if they're completely impossible to deal with.
But you seem to keep getting set up to get your chair pulled out from under you. Then they promise you a seat at the table again. And their behavior is just tolerable enough to you that there might be a possibility they would.
Sound reasonable?
mudpup
-
Bunny,
Thanks for the kind words and encouragment. I don't feel like such a money whore, now. It is kind of pointless to draw a line in the sand with him and say I will accept no help. Then you are really kind of s___ing yourself.
Since he asked repeatedly what I want, maybe I should think about that. In the short run, I would like his cooperation with this river thing and for him to surgically remove the older brother from his behind so he will let us go on with the project evn though Bro#1 is doing his best to torpedo it.
Bunny the "resigned" brother was a different brother. I know you really need a chart but we have in age order:
Brother #1: Permanently suckled to Dad in business #1. Never had a real job. Doesnt do anything there we can determine. Has lifetime employment, car, insurance, gas card, professional sports tickets. Company hasnt made money in years, probably because of Bro #1. Dad doesnt seem to care. We are pretty sure Bro has been siphoning money in a variety of ways for years.
Brother #2 The "angry" one who had resigned himself to the latest handout to Brother #3. Has his own career away from family. Tried to work in Business #1 but couldnt take Brother #1.
Brother #3 The rageaholic that I work with. Was handed this side business from Dad although I asked for it 15 years earlier. He tried working at Business #1 and also couldnt take brother #1,
Daughter #1: (Me). Banned from Business #1 because no women were allowed. Dad avoided ever answering why I couldnt get Busienss #2.
I have challenged Dad and Mom repeatedly over the years. I think it scared me to see what happened to the other women through the generations. I was determined not to be them. You all have given me hope.
Ellen, I am so sorry that I didnt mention the extreme cruelty of your father not helping you and the small baby. What is wrong with these people? Did he give you a reason?
I stilll struggle for a reason with my own father's lack of fairness. If anybody ever comes up with an answer, let me know.
Mudpup,
You may be on to something here. Most people would say my parents are lovely people. In many ways they are. There seems to be a rash of this unfairness and poor treatment issues again or maybe I am just noticing them more. At least, Thank God, with your all's help I am nottcing it more and trying differnet approaches. Tomorrow therapy also..
-
Bliz,
The more you talk about your dad the more I'd like to punch him right in the nose.
What a butthead to treat you as though you are less worthy than your junior butthead brothers. I bet the bigger the buttheads they are the more he rewards them.
I'm sure you've addressed this before, but how is your mom treated? As disdainfully for being a woman as you?
My suggestions (nose punching) aren't always practical but they do give a certain short term satsfaction. Probably wouldn't help out with the inheritence issue much though.
You probably ought to listen to bunny instead.
mud
-
Men have defintely been worshipped on the paternal side of my family for years whether they deserved it or not. ONeof my friends says the only other girl, my cousin, is in the same boat. Dont know if that is true. I think they let her work at her father's company that divorced from my Dad's company.
Considering the treatment of men in the family, nO wonder I have relationship issues, heh? Maybe men are just worshipped in general on both sides more. I still dont get it and despite what I may sound like here I dont hate men at all. I am usually looking for a nontypical type male which has gotten me in trouble also.
My Mom is another story. She was an orphan although her mother was alive. When I ws younger I thought she ws nuts. She took a lot of her frustration, anger out on me. SHe probably was classically Nar. In her 40's she had therapy and kind of went her own way as far as figuring out who she was . She went back to college and took up a sport that she excelled at and really came into her own.
Mostly she is a joy to be around. Because she never supported herself though, except when younger, I think the money kind of ties her to Dad. She has her own money now but her brain kind of turns off when she is forced to think about that.
They stayed married and are probably relatively happy but it was dicey at tiems when we were younger.
She favors the boys under certain circumstances for a variety of reasons, although she will say that our relationship is closer and more real. When the chips are down she often expects me to muzzle myself and as you know that doesnt always happen. SHe said Brother #2, "never mentioned it again," when they told him about the latest money grab. I will bet it will get mentioned again but her message to me was, "you are the problem."
For all his frustrating behavior, Dad is not well and of course I still love him so I try to chose my battles carefully.
-
Bliz,
All I can say is your family is very lucky to have you as a daughter or a sister. Too bad they can't appreciate who you are more.
I'm glad your mom has improved to the point that she is a joy for you to be around. I hadn't realized you were that close. I'll bet in her heart she is torn up over how you are treated.
Sorry I want to poke your elderly pop in the nose. :oops: Guess I should fight someone my own size. Oh, wait a minute I am, my dear brother. How could I forget.
You got a lot of love in your heart from somewhere, Bliz. 8)
God bless you.
mudpup
-
Ah Mudpup, there you go again being all sweet and mushy. I do appreciate it.
Maybe that could be a new thread...how we all survived to love life anyway, besides the dysfunction. There are so many good people in the world. I see them all the time.
It was probably a very good idea that I took off after college and was pretty much a nomad for awhile. I met a lot of different types of people and quickly learned that kindness, love, generosity, humility, humanity, came in all differnet sizes and shapes.
So different from my white bread upbringing where the total focus was on appearance and acheivement. Probably also good, although I hate it, that I had to deal with being an alcoholic at such a young age. Guess it knocked me down and around to rebuild me.
I know on so many levels that I am a remarkable person, not to toot my horn or be conceited. It is a shame it is not recognized within the family. I guess it is mostly a defense mechanism on the part of the boys. YOu know, "you one down, me one up". Very sad. Some of the wives have gotten that way too which is even sadder.
Hey Mudpup, maybe you are right, I should jump ship and get away from these looneis. But on some level you know I love them all and the nieces and nephews are a real passion of mine. That is why it is so difficult at times.
It is so helpful to have here where people understand.
-
Hi Bliz,
Hey Mudpup, maybe you are right, I should jump ship and get away from these looneis
Just when I seem to convince you to leave, you have me convinced you should stay! :roll: :P
Quite frankly I think you have too much affection for them to leave. and there's nothing wrong with that if you are staying for the right reasons.
I think my main reason for suggesting you leave was to see if your perspective changed. If you really missed them and felt worse then yes you obviously should stay.
But, what has become clear over your last several posts, at least to me, is you love your elderly dad and he's not well. You love your mom and are getting along better with her better than ever. You really love your nieces and nephews. And you.....well......you have three brothers and you think that maybe they aren't really all that....well.....you have brothers. :?
If there is enough affection given and received in spite of some unfairess then maybe its not being enmeshed maybe its a flawed kind of love.
I hear quite a bit more affection coming through than anger especially toward your parents.
Maybe just staying on your course of evolving boundaries and assertiveness is best for you.
I know on so many levels that I am a remarkable person, not to toot my horn or be conceited. It is a shame it is not recognized within the family.
Oh, but it is recognized in the family. If you weren't recognized as remarkabe they wouldn't spend time holding you down. I knew what you meant though; you're not appreciated. :(
Stay strong, Bliz.
mudpup
-
Mudpup, thanks again for the input. Very insightful. It is a mixed bag. I do have great affection and love for my parents even if they are incredibly backward at times. As for the worthiness of my brothers to receive my love....hmmm..let me think about that. They each have their own dysfunctional, frustrating behaviors. I do feel some love to most of them at different times but the constant putting me and sometimes all women down, is a bit too much.
I went to counseling and felt pretty good about the whole situation afterward. Her biggest question was why do I let their treatment cause me to doubt my self worth? I guess that is the question for the ages. Intellectually I know they are wrong, but sometimes at gut level it hurts. Then sometimes it just p____es me off
The therapist was actually encouraging me to get a plan together on asking for money if I wanted to do that. For instance, how much money it would take to totally fix up my house, and then present it to my father and ask for his help. I kind of liked it. It didnt have to be the house but the state of the house has been haunting me forever. Seems like as soon as I get one part done, the rest is outdated. Also I am getting at an age where I am thinking if not now, when? I have been moving ahead with my own plan but it sure could happen quicker with help. She and I agreed I may not get the money but it was worth a shot if only as a learning experience. She did question my own feelings about money and asking for money. I think there is a mystery to be solved there also.
Feeling renewed I went back to the trailer situation and promptly got frustrated as all the work keeps getting poured in my lap and then when I do the research it is questioned, dissected and sometimes discarded by Dad and Bro #1.
I had to laugh at one of my friends who once said as best as they could figure, Bro#1 is in charge of parking in front of the building and the doling out of the pro sports tickets. That's is pretty accurate. So when he said he didnt have time to meet the site inspection person I had to laugh.
Bro#1's catch all phrase for "just how incredibly busy he is "I'm just spinning plates." He is so disorganized and constipated I am surprsied he makes it to work each day. It is a facade actually. Acting busy when you really aren't. I, on the other hand, have two jobs and little to no free time, but can juggle, prioritize, etc. Maybe we could have a circus act---"The dysfunctional juggling plate spinners." Oh I forgot it already is a circus act.
So this is where the famous Catch-22 comes in or as I think Mudpup said they pull the chair our from under me. Do I keep pushing the project forward and learn to live with the ups and downs and hopefully the final product or just step back? I am still debating and today mostly venting.
The next step was having someone from the traielr hauling company look at the site and determine fi we can actually get it in there. Bro and Dad, nickled and dimed the site inpsection person, which also happens to be a woman, about her price, so now she isnt calling back, which I hope is just me being paranoid.
Bro #1 is also dissing the lady at the manufactured home site as not knowing anything. I reminded Dad that the guy there wouldnt even give us the time of day so I dumped him for her. I actually told Dad that Bro's only problem with her was she is a woman. That upset Dad of course.
She has actually been great and at one time Bro#1 thought she was very informative.
This is all just a control issues as I am sure he knows he is in his favorite seat, holding up the project while he does Lord knows what. It'sa power thing. AARRGGHH!!!
I told Dad that I would meet the site inspection person, even though I really dont have the time, but they needed to get all their questions ready ahead of time. Also no bitching afterward about what they forgot to ask or do, if they cant actually go out there with me. Now if she will justs call me back.