Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: FlowerGirl on April 22, 2005, 11:46:39 PM
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Hi All,
A wonderful thing happened to me today. I made the mistake of mentioning it to nMom on the phone. She, of course, belittled it. "What will that *really* do for you?" Great. Thanks ma.
Anyways, this and a rather insecure character at work have left me wondering ... WHY?
Why would you make a demeaning comment when "Wow! that's Great!" would do? Or "You sound excited!" or "I'm so glad this has made your day!"..
I mean, really, lets face it, I could be talking about dying my hair pink. Or about getting a promotion. Or about getting assigned to chimeny sweet assignment. Or any number of things that just wouldn't be appealing to any of you - but wouldn't you just say "GREAT! I'm so glad your new hairdo makes you happy!" ???
Its SO easy to say absolutely nothing and not deflate the other person. Even "eh". or "I need to go to the loo". or anything. WHY do people go out of their way to deflate others? Its so much extra work!
thanks. I needed to get that out....
--FG
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Because, FG, these poor souls operate from a 'scarcity model'.
They have no idea that love is infinite and increases when it is shared...
They think that if anyone else gets anything good, THEY have lost something.
So they always will poo on your birthday cake.
The bright side is that you can learn how to make sure THEY get the slice with the poo on it. :twisted:
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Flowergirl,
WHY do people go out of their way to deflate others? Its so much extra work!
Its not extra work to them.
Its reason they get up in the morning. They're more than happy to oblige. :evil:
mudpup
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I can't tell you how many times I've put down the phone and thought, "Mom, can't you just say the polite meaningless thing?" I think I know how you feel.
I'd like to say I got over it, but part of me never will. The thing I think you can get over, though, is placing any faith in that reflection of yourself as true. Just remember that everything she says is colored by her limitations. She can only look at you through the lens of herself--so that means that she can't really see you at all.
It's sad, and frustrating, and sometimes funny all at the same time. But I think one of the better things you can do with it is put it here, say "AARGH!", and then go on.
I hope tomorrow is better for you.
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Hi FlowerGirl:
My humble opinion: Jealousy.
If I feel in a particularly confrontive mood I often say:
"Jealousy will get you no where." or
"It seems you're too into yourself to be happy for me. What a shame."
If I think that's a waste of time/won't help the situaion/will only make it worse,
I just think those (above) statements and respond:
"Yes, I'm so happy I could burst! See ya." and make a quick exit.
GFN
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Flowergirl:
Even before I got to GFN's post, I thought to myself this sounds like the good old garden variety of jealousy. You would be surprised at people's reaction to the good things that happen in your life. It is as if deflating your happiness gives them energy , making them feel better. If not deflating your happiness, they will want to play "oneupsmanship" or can I top you.
I caught a show yesterday on Oprah and they had a psychologist that had a lot to say about shame and fear. N's fear your happiness, they fear your peace of mind. Maybe it makes them feel inferior or less than and they go through all the contortions to make sure their "front" is in tact and YOU realize that whatever you have going on, theirs is much better. As Carley Simon's song says "Your So Vain" you probably think
(insert whatever) is about you.
If you relate your happiness, then it is not about the N's happiness. Patz
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Yes.. i think you're right about the jealousy... but it is all so silly! I mean, I am human. I get jealous. someone has something I would love to have - so I think "wouldn't it be nice?" We are only human.
But, I try really hard to be happy for them. or even say "I am jealous".. since that at least means "I value what you have..." ... denigrating it is horrible!
The thing that blows my mind is that it is often not something worth being jealous about. Like things they never wanted - or never even attempted. Like someone saying "I got a pet rat!" would you be jealous? you dont WANT a pet rat.... why not just say "what are you gonna call her?"
its just so easy to be neutral... but i guess mudpup is right. it isn't easier for THEM.
--FG
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hey, I had a pet rat, and he was a real sweetie pie.
but that's OK. I know what you meant (((((FG))))).
they're dogs in the manger. they can't eat the hay, but they don't want anyone else to have anything good.
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My mom and sister do this exact same thing. Sometimes they have to turn over backwards and do a cartwheel to find something to be insulting about, but they manage it.
Does your mom spend time insulting other people as part of her conversational style? Mine does. It gives me the impression that she thinks of it all as a zero-sum game-- if someone else is less then she is more. It's all about self-esteem. So it isn't surprising she does it with me. Basically family conversations on the phone go like this:
Mom: Person I am talking to! Isn't [person who is not the one she is talking to] terrible! She did [not particularly terrible thing]!
Person she is talking to: That seems ok. Probably she just forgot or something.
Mom: No! She did it because [insert improbable but horrible reason here]! you know how she is, she is [insert wildly general insults]. She always [something no one always does] and never [insert something you have seen her do tons of times].
I know she does this about me to them. And to me with me. It makes N's feel nifty about themselves to insult others. But only for a nanosecond. That's why they have to keep doing it over and over again.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with this, FG! It is a major pain.
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Oh, PS!
I am so happy something wonderful happened to you today! May many more little gifts come your way. You deserve it. At least the universe realizes how special you are and is rewarding you.
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Thank you, Vunil! nMom hasn't brought up this "good thing" again this weekend, which I think is horrible.
You're right. I have that same conversation over and over. i also get alot of "I wouldn't have done that.." yeah, right.
There's alot of other direct stuff... like questioning people about their decisions outright. "don't you think that will delay your career?" "are your kids really benefitting from that?" ... Its really negative, but seems quite 'infomation-oriented' so it pretends to be conversational. When, in fact, it is rude.
Argh. I hate it all so much. It makes me feel icky to play the game, just to keep the peace. "when are you coming to visit?", she asked....
--FG
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"when are you coming to visit?", she asked....
"How about never, ma? Is never good for you?"
Snark snark. Would be nice to be able to say that, wouldn't it!
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you know, Stormchild, you're right!
Sidenote: ever noted how often the Ns say the words "I need"? Not, I want. Or I would like. Or Could you. I NEED you to call. I NEED something. No you don't. you would like something. It would help. It isn't a need. no one is dying.
-fg, who is in random rant mode.
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vunil-- we are on a wavelength! I just saw your post right after I posted essentially the same thing... It is in stormchild's column on letting people go/withdrawing. Funny!
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Um, I meant FG we are on a wavelength. How N was that typo? :oops:
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And sometimes that special brand of N-negativity is the gift that keeps on giving...
I was talking to my mother last night about my nephew. He'll graduate from college in a few weeks. He's also in the Marine reserves, so of course he could be activated at any time. But he decided to pursue his ambition to go into soccer coaching. He actually maneuvered a graduate assistantship in coaching at a small school in the southwest. Apparently, a graduate assistanship is how you start. It's how everybody starts.
My mother has been relentlessly negative and down about this decision, and she brands my nephew a failure because of it. I generally speak up for him. Last night, I said to my mother, "Look. I want him to pursue what he wants. He's young. He has time. I think it's great that he's strong enough to do this, even though it's far from home and he'll have no money for years. I wish I had been strong enough to do the same."
"What do you mean?" she said.
"Don't you remember?" I said. "When I was a senior in college, I was offered that newspaper job, but I didn't take it because of the money. I was too afraid that I wouldn't be able to make it."
"You were offered a newspaper job?" she said.
"Yes," I answered.
Silence for a moment. "Well, it wouldn't have come to anything, anyway," she said.
Now, what I didn't remind her of is that, in fact, I accepted that job. Then I called home to share my good news, and my mother raked me over the coals until I felt like pulled pork. She laughed at me, she told me I was ridiculous, she told me that never, no-how and no way, would I be able to make a job like that work out. After I hung up the phone, I cried for a few hours, then I called them back and said I had thought it over and decided not to take the job. I was very weak, yes, that's what I did.
That's always been a turning point for me. Oh, I don't spend a lot of time on it anymore--it was 20 years ago--but I am determined to support any young person I know (read: nephew) in following his or her heart. I've talked it over with my husband, and we've decided to send the kid a few hundred dollars a month during this assistantship, rather than give him a big graduation present. It would have made all the difference in the world to me, at one point in my life.
Anyway, this sort of relentlessly negative reinforcement never goes away.
daylily
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She laughed at me, she told me I was ridiculous, she told me that never, no-how and no way, would I be able to make a job like that work out.
What a bitch.
Excuse my language.
Maybe all of our mothers can start a little phone club where they call each other and insult themselves, thereby leaving us alone.
For what it's worth, daylily, I think you're a great writer. Any sort of writing you wanted to do, I bet you could do. And I'm picky :)
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:oops: Oh, ((((vunil)))). Thanks so much. That means a great deal to me.
daylily
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DayLily...
Wow... what a story. Firstly, i think it is incredible that you are so supportive of your nephew. I'm sure he appreciates so much - not only for the financial support, but more for the emotional message that says "we're behind you, champ". Gosh, don't you wish every kid in this world got a nice poster on their wall saying that??
I had a similar experience in my youth... I had to make career decisions early, for a number of reasons, and always loved philosophy and english. at 15, I really wanted to study plato. Loved the stuff. Of course, that's not a REAL major. So, I knew I'd have to do something more financially viable... even at 15. Mom had already taught me that I needed to support myself all my life. not end up like her - dependent.
So, I tried a couple of hard sciences. Kept up the philosophy on the side (I have a couple minors... just accumulated that credit) but I never quite made it in bio (mitochondria?) or physics (thermodynamics?). So, on nMom's suggestion, I took up programming. And, suprisingly, I loved it. Then I got the other side from crazyPop - "that's not a real career!" ... ahh, 1995... before the boom.
Oh the fights. the battles. the screaming. The very *idea* of pursuing philosophy was unconciencable. I had to fight for engineering!
But you know what, Day Lily... in the end, many years later, while I'm still a happy Geek, i'm pursuing my artistic and philosophical hobbies happily (and still against their better judgement - surely I should be learning tennis!) ...
while your writing here is VERY much appreciated... do you ever think about doin' a little writing on the side? You certainly have the talent!
--FG
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daylily, I agree with others here about your writing. It is..... rich. Dense with meaning, but very easy to read and understand. It is a pleasure to read what you write. :)