Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Stormchild on April 30, 2005, 01:37:13 PM
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Hey guys, asking for support and good energy here.
I rent. About 18 months ago I moved to a new town to get away from the steadily increasing congestion and meanness where I had been living, and to get the jump on an office relocation that my employer is going to perpetrate sometime this year.
I live in a upstairs garden apartment, large, airy, full of light, with flowering cherry trees around it and a huge deck overlooking a tree-shaded avenue. I'm on the end, and my apartment goes through the bulding so part faces the street and part faces away from the street. I can walk across the street to a shopping plaza with restaurants, a good grocery store, a drugstore, and my maildrop. Trees, grass, shade, blue sky, nice.
It was ideal for eight months, and then ten months ago a new tenant (a couple) moved in downstairs.
First impressions were bad. They camped in three parking spaces directly in front of the building for two solid weeks, then returned the trailer they'd used to move and camped in two spaces. [Lease says please only park one of your cars right in front, park others across. Everyone else does this.] Of course, one of the spaces they took was one I'd been using for eight months, but I didn't have any official right to it other than habit, so I sighed and moved my car to a paid covered space and tried not to hold it against them.
They then proceeded to make more noise than I have ever experienced. Running power tools outside on the patio. Blasting their stereo. And although the male half of the pair apparently got home before 4 PM daily - sometimes as early as 2:30 - the noise always started during dinner, or immediately after it, usually right after I came in the front door in the evenings.
Within three weeks I had decided to file a complaint, because I tried knocking on the door and they simply ignored my knock. But all of a sudden they quieted down, before I could say anything to anyone, and the woman even asked me to let them know if they were too noisy. So obviously one of the two other tenants in the adjacent units must have said something, or both of them did, or people further down the row, who like using their balconies at dinnertime without power saws and blaring radios adding to the ambience, did. Or they all did. This was last June or July.
Quiet it was thereafter until the downstairs tenant adjacent to these guys moved out, and new noisemakers moved in there. The two sets of them got into a sonic war at 8 PM on New Year's Eve that was so bad I called the police, and submitted a written complaint to the landlord on New Year's Day. There's no question that it WAS a noise war. My poor cats were terrified.
I have earplugs and use them. They might as well have been Kleenex.
This town has covenants, and noise is severely restricted after 9 PM, and even outside that time, if it's loud enough, it's considered violative. That's the reason I bothered to file a complaint.
In early January, both the male and female apologized to me and asked me to let them know if they were ever too loud. No problems, until March. Between the middle of March and this past week I've had eight episodes of serious noise trouble, ranging from 4 in the afternoon to 8 in the evening when it starts, all of it their stereo blasting on one side of the building so loudly that I hear it through the walls and floor on the other side. It's never just one song (which I could understand and ignore). It goes on for anywhere from half an hour to two and a half hours at a time.
The fourth time, I went downstairs, knocked, and was ignored. Round about the seventh time, I'd been sitting in my living room reading and didn't appreciate being driven out of it by my own furniture vibrating, so since they ignored my knock previously, I thumped the floor. They turned the stereo up in response to this.
So the next time, when the same thing started ten or so days later, at 4 PM, I waited a half hour, and it got louder, and finally I called my landlord's office, told them I was having a recurring noise problem and asked for someone to please come over and listen to what I was experiencing.
Now, normally when I have a crisis and call for help, there's never anyone around. But this time, someone was there, and they came right over. And they agreed that this was simply too loud for even 4:45 in the afternoon. So the office rep went downstairs and knocked on the door, and not only did the tenant not answer, but he turned the stereo up AGAIN. Thinking it was me, obviously.
For some reason, the rep was surprised by this response. She said it was spiteful (no disagreement here), and I told her that this was exactly what they did to me the last time, when I thumped on the floor. She asked me to prepare a written complaint, and told me she was reporting the incident to her management immediately.
I wrote up a complaint and included every incident from the last seven weeks, including the fact that these folks asked me to contact them and then ignored and/or retaliated when I tried to.
Folks, I could sure use prayers and good energy about this. I don't think the woman has been spiteful, most of the incidents have happened when her car was not here. But the guy surely has.
To a limited extent I can feel for him a little, but not much. He isn't blasting the stereo after 9 anymore, and the power tools are being used elsewhere. There's never been a problem with noise late at night or early in the morning.
But he doesn't need to make my living room vibrationally uninhabitable in order to enjoy the music he likes, and I can't get past the fact that this business of retaliating against me for doing as they asked is simply abusive.
Anyway, I feel very uncomfortable about running into these people, which so far I have managed to avoid doing. Damn. He's been a jerk, but I feel circumscribed. And I really don't want to move, not with Sophie terminally ill, I had some old furniture taken away just a few weeks ago and she cried and hid, thinking we were moving again. Besides, why should I have to pay to move, and give up what's been a perfectly lovely place to live otherwise? Let this guy pay to move somewhere else, where he can rupture his eardrums to his hearts' content.
Prayers please. Many thanks!
PS to our UK friends - we don't have ASBOs here - and how I wish we did!
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Hi Stormchild,
I'm on your side 100% but I'm not holding my breath. When I lived in apartment buildings there were always people playing their stereos at ear-shattering volume at all hours. In my case there was no supportive landlord. They did not care one iota about my plight and never talked to the noisy tenants. Yeah I called the police when there were parties at 2AM. It accomplished nothing. Talking to the noisy people is futile as they have no intention of changing their lifestyle for some "quiet" person. Their attitude is: move out if you don't like it. Unfortunately once these tenants get in, there is no way to evict them if they're paying rent on time. Bottom line: good luck. Noise pollution can wreck even a lovely apartment.
bunny
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Hi Stormy....I have to agree with Bunny. I had a short career as a property manager and evicting people takes four months and a lawyer so landlords are loathe to go that route. Lawyer fees can go up to $1K just for a simple eviction. Calling the police and basing your complaint on local restrictions is good but they (the noisy neighbors) may retaliate against you in some sort of passive/aggressive way. And just calling your landlord or his representative every time it happens is good also because in most leases, being a nuisance is grounds for termination of the lease. Enlisting the cooperation of the other tenants is the best thing to do. I don't know how many units are in the building but saying there are four, three out of four may sway your landlord to do something. Otherwise, you may just have to put up with it for the time being. And this ain't restricted to renting....I could tell you great stories about my lunatic neighbor, her chickens, and her bi-polar husband....She hates my cat but where I live, cats can go anywhere they please while chickens, once they cross the line, are trespassing and can be shot! Ask me how I know this, this small, minute bit of information that I was forced to investigate because she is a loon....loonatic! Say meow to Sophie from all my animals! Bittles
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.... I feel very uncomfortable about running into these people, which so far I have managed to avoid doing. Damn. He's been a jerk, but I feel circumscribed....Besides, why should I have to pay to move, and give up what's been a perfectly lovely place to live otherwise?
Isn't it ironic that it's always the considerate people who end up feeling sheepish or uncomfortable(just for having stuck up for themselves)? I think that one of the things wrong with our society is that people are either too ignorant or too selfish to face the reality that we don't each live in our own vacuum. You can't just do as you please, at the expense of other people, simply because you feel like it.
What's even more outrageous is that obnoxious louts like your neighbor feel righteously indignant at your having called them on the carpet for their unacceptable conduct, and they feel entitled to give everyone around them attitude for it.
You have my prayers, Stormchild. I commiserate with you wholeheartedly---my husband and I moved from an apartment building last year for this very reason(i.e.,neighbors who thought that they were still living in a frat house---no offense to any frat-affiliated folks on this board). I hope that the company who manages your property will step up to the plate and do the right thing. You shouldn't have to live with that.
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Whoopsie, I forgot to sign my name that post above(it's me, PQC) :oops:
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Stormy,
It rots that you can't relax in your own home. I can remember how terrible it was when I lived in a condo and was kept awake by an obnoxious neighbor. Apparently his day would begin at midnight and every noise imaginable to mankind seemed to come out of his place. My work performance suffered because I was so exhausted from being kept awake night after night. I was absolutely miserable. Eventually I moved.
Please don't feel uncomfortable around these people if you run into them. You have done absolutely nothing wrong. They should be hanging their heads for being inconsiderate and for tormenting other tenants.
I'm hoping that the management at your place and the other tenants will keep the pressure on these people to behave in an obliging manner.
Sending you my prayers and positive thoughts. I'll keep my fingers crossed too.
Next time you have to stomp of the floor to silence them, imagine us there stomping with you.
Here's hoping that their speakers will explode and shatter their eardrums. :wink:
Mia
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Oh, Boy, Stormy, what a drag. I understand how you feel about not wanting to run into him. There is one custodian at my school who everyone thinks is a closet criminal (scary guy)....I got into an arguement with him 3 years ago that ended in him being censored by our administrator....now I avoid HIM. He is the ONLY person on our entire campus I will not speak to (that's how bad it was....yet he is still there...don't get me started).
It just seems like those people who would do what they did in the first place (like your selfish, trashy neighbors) might also do something worse (like hurt us!) It Bites!!! You have done nothing wrong, yet you are fearful. That's just not right.
I am sending you prayers of strength. Sing the song "let it snow" only say "let it go let it go let it go" and focus on what you want.....to enjoy your apartment. Here's to it happening. snuggles to Sophie!
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Oh, what a mess, and what a stress for you at this difficult time.
I tend to agree that you have to try to tip the balance of the other tenants toward getting the landlord to do something, and you may not succeed. Others have had more experience with this than I have. So let me just add my sympathy and good wishes to the thread.
Wishing you peace (and quiet),
daylily
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Thanks all. They were gone last weekend and seem to have been gone for much of this weekend too. They moved in about ten months ago, so there is some hope that their lease may simply not be renewed because of this. Perhaps, God willing, they are looking for another place to live.
Unfortunately I think they drove at least one adjacent neighbor out - I'm not sure, but that's the apt. where the noise war participants moved in. They (the new noisy ones) did leave. I wouldn't have gotten anywhere trying to enlist THEM in defense of quiet, that's for sure.
I really feel for everyone else who has been through this sort of thing with no recourse. After spending too many years in a college dorm, I am completely fed up with rowdy brats and people who refuse to limit the behavior of same.
This area actually does have some noise ordinances, and there are noise prohibitions in the lease. The area I moved from had pretty stiff ordinances, with fines, even, but it took two witnesses to press a complaint. Yeah. Me and one of the cats? Talk about discriminating against older single women... unintentional, I'm sure, but true none the less.
Anyway, I'm hoping for the best, I appreciate the prayers, and I don't want to buy a home - prices are ridiculous here, and I really think they're going to collapse. All I can afford is a condominium or townhouse with cardboard walls, out in the middle of a former cornfield somewhere (?!) which is not going to solve this problem at all, and I don't want to have to repair my own roof leaks or do my own blasted subcontracting... renting is the best option for me. This place has been awfully decent, and still is, about 98% of the time.
Thanks. Do I sound cranky? Sorry. Woke up with a nasty headache this morning, and haven't done anything I can think of that would have produced one. Haven't been able to shake it, and looking at the screen actually hurts, so I suspect I might be 'sounding' a tad grouchy. Many apologies if I sound that way. Gonna go try some aspirin and strong black tea... hugs all.
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I ran into the same thing in apartments. . . but they eventually quieted down.
Now I live on a farm, and rent downstairs from people who I consider close enough to be my parents. Ironically, the same consideration issues pop up there. The one trash can for us just isn't enough - so I've taken to carrying my trash out - and "outsourcing" it in various locations. The parking at the farm is limited. If there is a gathering or a party, they don't consider my parking situation - and I live there.
Then there's the mini-tramp. Throw that down on the floor, and start jumping up and down (with loud music). Ever had to turn on closed-captioned just to read the tv - because you can't hear it!!
The clincher though happened this morning. Went out to my car, and the driver door was damaged, along with the driving side mirror smashed and broken. No notes. Thought I was dreaming until I saw glass on the ground near the door.
Called the owners from my cell phone in their driveway and asked what happened. "Oh yeah - it was an accident last night". Upon questioning why I wasn't told, I found out that they knew I was going to bed early and didn't want to wake me up. So, now I've got a dangerous driving situation because that very important mirror is broken.
They've gone through numerous renters and sought me to move into their place at a discount. Now I know why they've gone through numerous renters. Maybe this time, after I turn in my notice, I will give them some advice about things they might want to change so they can retain a renter!
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:shock: :shock: :shock:
oh cat.
They jump on a miniature trampoline over your head with music playing? And damage your car and don't say anything about it or leave a note?
How old did you say these people were? Any chance they're the parents of one of my neighbors? :roll: :roll: :roll:
oh lord, no wonder they can't keep tenants. as you yourself said. good luck finding something better, ye gods and little fishes, good luck!!!
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Nah - not your neighbors - but old enough to know better (maybe they've never lived in apartment).
To give you comfort - my worst horror story was living in the top floor of a three floor story apartment. On the first floor was a friend. The idiot in between was loud loud loud! We pounded, we complained, we confronted. The friend was told he had an uzzi in his apartment and showed it to her. If we caused him trouble, or pounded anymore he was more than willing to start shooting through the ceiling and floorboards.
Needless to say, the police were called, and the apartment put under surveillance.
How is it going now with your apartment situation?
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Hi cat
Not entirely sure. There was a short burst of very loud noise this evening, but it only lasted about 5 minutes, as compared to the usual half hour to two hours. I don't know if the landlord has contacted these people yet.
In other words, I don't know if this was garden variety snottiness again, or whether the clown got something from the landlord and acted out because of it.
I do have the rental agent's encouragement to call the police if I am further disturbed, but I'm holding off on that unless the disturbance violates the local covenant noise ordinances. [Added on edit: it doesn't seem like a good idea to call the police unless the behavior is clearly violative - they're not really in the business of crime prevention - they are here to apprehend perps while crime is in progress or after it's been committed. And civil disturbances are very small beer to them.]
Tomorrow I will talk to the resident relations manager. These people moved in last June, I think, so the landlord could simply refuse to extend their lease when the term is up, if they're enough of a nuisance.
On the bright side - if there is one - I've researched the local ordinances, and in the case of breach of a lease, where I live, the landlord can evict with 30 days notice. Of course, we all know the jerk will become extremely loud in retaliation if he is evicted for loudness. But, disruptive noise does breach the lease.
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Neighbor squabbles can be very draining. I will share this one for your entertainment. I live in a house and my uphill neighbor, several years ago, started arbitrarily deciding where my property line that met their yard ended. For instance when I would cut my grass on their side of the hill they would decide I didnt cut over far enough and would leave a small strip of grass in the middle.
THis went on for years with me trying not to fuel the fire and just recutting the grass etc. Then every day she would run the hose on the upside of my house long enough that it would eventually seep into the stone foundation. I ignored that. Really had no idea why they started the war. At one time we had been friends.
One night I came home and all my bushes back that were about three feet from my structure were cut way back. That was it. I called them but it got nowhere. WHen they moved out I had the yard surveyed so I would know once and for all. They werent even close in their boundary estimation. Turns out I went way farther into "their" yard than they thought.
Knowledge was definitely power on this one. Both of them were kids of alcoholics, so I am thinking "literal" boundary issues.
Had the same kind of thing with a guy in back of my yard and my other neighbor's yard. He would call both of us and rant and rave every time some tree limbs fell off a tree at the back of our yards. WE would dutifully pick them up. WHen I surveyed the yard I found out that it was actually his tree. Then the tree died and he was ordered to take it down by the city. He made sure he felt directly into my yard and left it there for days. I ignored it.
This was an older guy you would think would know better. He went on to torture other neighbors. It must be a very common theme but seems like such a waste of time and energy.
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It is a common theme, and the song is abusiveness.
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Hi Stormy! Sorry to hear you have such awful neighbours. :( Hope you can get them evicted, sounds as if you've got a really good case. Take care and dream of the day when they move....
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I heard from my landlord today, via letter. They were quite unhappy about the way their rental agent was treated by my downstairs neighbor [and they were just as unhappy about the treatment I have been getting, too; having their own staff experience it really proved to them I was telling the truth.]
They asked me to inform them immediately if anything else happens. I stopped by the rental office to thank the agent, and she told me that the couple are likely to move out soon (on their own) based on a discussion she had with them after they got their own letter.
Please keep me in prayer, because this is a vulnerable time. People can stew and then lash out. They could change their minds, or decide to be contrary and overstay their lease.
But I am grateful for the help I have received, and I am praying many thanks about that.
Also, the complex is having its parking lot resurfaced, so I will have to park in the public lot of the shopping center across the street tonight through Saturday. I've made arrangements with one of the businesses there to let me park behind their building [I told them it's because I have an old beater without an alarm system, and don't want it visible from the road; the real reason is so that my neighbor does not see my car unattended and experience temptation to vandalize it. The business owners are very kind people; I didn't want to cause them any undue concern.]
I'm not saying the guy would vandalize my car; I am saying that I have no certainty that he wouldn't, if the opportunity arose, based on how he's been with the noise when he thought there were no witnesses present.
My minister and his wife have agreed that I can park at their home if this doesn't work out [if others are already in all those spaces when I try to park there]. I'd need to take a cab back and forth, though, because they will be away.
So, hopeful news, but I have to be patient and tolerate some ambiguous stuff for awhile. I have booked a pet sitter for my first month back at work, so that my animals will have someone checking in on them in the afternoon, since this guy gets home before I do every day.
October, you will like this part: I was very anxious and strung up about all this and having trouble sleeping earlier this week. So I asked not only God as father, son and spirit, but also my dear heavenly human surrogate parents St. Joseph and Our Lady, to help me achieve emotional peace and clarity of thought to deal with these things. I was asleep before I could complete my prayer, and woke very well rested, and with my mind still in prayer.
thanks everyone. your support has meant so much.
hugs all
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Wanted to post this separately. The parking lot where I live is full of trucks and jackhammers and guys in hard hats, and they've been prepping the asphalt since about 8 this morning.
Not only is this not bothering me in the least, I have been enjoying watching the heavy equipment. About an hour ago I walked across the street and bought a case of bottled water, shrink-wrapped, after checking with the rental office that they didn't mind me doing an 'act of charity'. Came back and handed the flat to the foreman, told him I knew they'd be doing hot hard work today. [Since I'm a total stranger to them, giving them the water wrapped and sealed should reassure them that I didn't mess with it.]
These guys are doing a job, and I'll benefit from it, along with a lot of other folks. Their noise is necessary and unavoidable. Part of life.
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Stormchild - not only will the workers benefit from your act of kindness, you've got to know they will certainly take care to watch out for you.
Very awesome!
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Ye gods and little fishes, cat... I never thought of that. thanks for a cheerful thought!
when I was in high school, long long ago, I used to put ice water out in the morning for our trash collectors, in the summer holidays. it just occurred to me today that these guys were doing something even hotter and more dehydrating than those good souls were, and for once I didn't have to go off to work, so I could do something for them.
they'll be getting bottled water tomorrow too. i'd decided that even before I saw the looks on their faces today. big old tough guys, grinning like cheshire cats, totally surprised and pleased, nothing wrong or inappropriate in their reactions at all.
it made me cry, but i waited till i got home to let go.
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Does anyone else ever wonder how different the world would be if everyone in it behaved the way people here do? Not that anyone here is remotely perfect, just the consideration for other people that is expressed.
That was a really thoughtful thing you did Stormy. As an operater of heavy equipment let me tell you there aren't too many jobs hotter. Unfortunately I have yet to run into anyone delivering a flat of chilled water out in the woods. :( Probably not likely to either. Glad they appreciated it.
Also glad your situation is looking up regarding your
downstairs brat-wurst. Hope he leaves and you get someone considerate.
By the way does anyone know what the root words of Pumpernickel mean? (Sorry, bratwurst made me think of pumpernickel)
Talk about going off on a tangent, but its pretty funny. :lol:
mudpup
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uh, well, ask and ye shall receive:
... You know, even in Maine they must have dictionaries. This from Webster's:
Main Entry: pum ·per ·nick ·el
Pronunciation: 'p&m-p&r-"ni-k&l
Function: noun
Etymology: German, from pumpern to break wind + Nickel goblin; from its reputed indigestibility
Date: 1756
: a dark coarse sourdough bread made of unbolted rye flour
... All that having been said, the entry above doesn't convey matters as vividly as it might. Here's what Snopes has to say:
The true origin of "pumpernickel" is nearly as strange, if somewhat less savory. "Pumpern" was a New High German word similar in meaning to the English "fart" (so chosen because, like the word "achoo," it imitated the sound it described), and "Nickel" was a form of the name Nicholas, an appellation commonly associated with a goblin or devil (e.g., "Old Nick" is a familiar name for Satan). Hence, pumpernickel is the "devil's fart," allegedly a reference to the bread's indigestible qualities and hence the effect it produced on those who consumed it. (www.snopes2.com/language/stor ies/pumper.htm)
On the one hand you have to admire the Germans for their honesty. On the other hand you think, people eat this stuff?
--SDSTAFF Ken
Straight Dope Science Advisory Board
and for those of you who would like the URL to this [I expurgated it, heh]:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpumpernickel.html
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A Goblin breaking wind;
now we're talking abusive noise. :shock: :P :twisted:
mud
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Yep. See how your subconscious was actually right on the track of this thread? :shock:
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stormy that was so cool of you to be nice to the work-guys. didnt write before (my computer crashes at weird times, mostly when im replying to things) but ive been wishing you luck with the neighbor thingie. sounds like you are having good fortune... my fingers have been crossed and are still...:}} .... ... ...
A.