Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Stormchild on June 04, 2005, 12:01:22 PM
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For the last three weeks I have been thinking about codependence and the Karpman and Quinby triangles of interactions.
Although I have been struggling with codependent traits for a long time, I have realized that they are still terribly powerful in me.
I still tend to lock myself into a 'sage advisor' role, or allow myself to be subtly pushed and then pigeonholed there, since it is the only 'safe' role I was allowed to have as a child. I still hate that and feel helpless to alter it.
I still express myself inappropriately under stress, react with inappropriate anger when I feel unsupported, and withdraw too far when I feel attacked.
And I am far too critical of narcissists, and nowhere near critical enough of my own reactive patterns around anyone who seems the least bit N-ish to me. It's not wrong to see narcissists for what they are... but it doesn't help to stop there. I haven't moved far enough beyond that.
I know that as a result I have caused pain and confused or annoyed people here, and also have given too much advice on some occasions when it would have been better not to give any at all.
I honestly don't know what I will be doing now, how much I will be visiting here in the future. But having realized that I have been less healthy here than I would have liked (and hoped and thought I was being) I do want to apologize for any ill effects that has had on anyone else.
It's a paradox, in a way. I'm glad I see it now, but sorry I was doing it then. I need to learn a better way of approaching my life issues, and it's going to be hard, because my job and most of my interactions are very oriented towards rewarding the exact same unhealthy codependent stuff I need to stop doing. Wish me luck.
Bless you all, thank you all.
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((((((Stormy))))))
Your honesty is admirable. Your depth is immeasurable. I, for one, am glad to have "met" you. I am certain with your amazing brain and indominable spirit, great things are happening for you. Thanks for being a part of my life, however brief.
Luck has nothing to do with it.....you are creating this miracle.
with love,
Mum
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(((((Stormchild))))). That’s a brave courageous post you made.
I wish you luck, lots, bundles of luck and love and goodness and finding people to be with, to share with.
I really hope you can visit this board.
I’ve been inappropriate here too. Yesssir! A wise friend said to me:
A mistake is not a person, it is an event.
A mistake is not a person, it is an event.
A mistake is not a person, it is an event.
Thanks for the apology Storm. I take some of it for me okay? Apology accepted as far as I’m concerned, all slates wiped clean. Please give yourself a break. You’re okay. We’re all okay. Stuff happens.
You sound to me like you’re going to try it alone? Please don’t be alone. Please come here if you wish, when you can, to chat, to tell us what you feel. Or to ask questions: did you feel like this? What helped you? – and so on. I don’t think I’ve experienced anything in my thinking and therapy here that has been unique to me. Someone has usually helped me by saying yes, I felt like that, don’t worry, it passes, or try this book, try seeing this way.
Right now I need advice on how to limit my squiffy pattern-recognition thinking. I’ve been doing a little of that - trying to stop it, but it’s still there, seeing stuff that doesn’t exist. Anyway. In progress.
Welcome back I hope.
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Hi Storm,
I'm with everyone else, that was a very brave post. I will add that you're kind of hard on yourself, no one here is perfect. I would say that 100% of people have some codependency and the only thing I'd tell them is, "try to work on it." It's not the end of the world to realize that maybe you've been focusing outward and need to focus inward more. Heck, I realize that all the time about myself.
Please feel free to keep posting.
bunny
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Hi Storm,
I agree with you about the participation part of N relationships. "THE Dance of Anger" and the other dance books are so helpful in this. The problem is that we learned as children that this is how to relate, period. And now we do not know other ways to relate. So it is up to us to relearn relationships, and that is not easy, since it is the first thing we learn in life, and everything else in our personalities is built on that.
But I do not think it is appropriate to blame the person who learned the wrong dances as a child. I would only say that if you do not try at all to change the way you relate, because we cannot change the ways other people relate, then you canot expect anything to change.
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Hi Stormy, I agree with the others here, none of us are perfect, but I feel that you have always been honest and well-intentioned. I know my advice to others have probably not always been the best, but hey, I'm not a therapist! I do try my best though, and that is all any of us can do...
I get what you mean though, I have been realizing just how much I project my mother onto others lately, and have also been trying to get away from my anger towards her. She can't help what she is, but I can try to change my response to her. It's very hard though, as I'm sure you know. Hang in there whichever way you chose to do things, but know that if you do leave the board, I will miss you.
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Hey Stormy,
Hope you'll stick around. Was wondering where you'd got to really. I have no real great advice to give, but have always gotten a lot out of your posts. Best of luck with everything and take good care of yourself.
2cents
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Stormchild,
I guess I haven't read all your posts because the sense I have of you is not near to how you are describing yourself. The posts I have read tell me you're very human and funny (remember asterisk syndrome :lol: ) By following this message board and posting when I think I have something to contribute is really helping me define and recognize the history of my co-dependence and work on not being an enabler or, in other words, a door mat for the next person I meet. Working on myself is much, much harder than thinking about the stbxhusband and the now deceased Mom who I really don't have much feeling for anymore. It's still pretty easy to beat up on myself but slowly, I am not doing that so much. I hope you keep posting...Bittles
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All I can say is thanks, everybody. You don't know how much I appreciate hearing this. It means a lot.
I'll be here, maybe not as much for awhile, I need to watch how I say what I say, and keep it constructive as much as I can. Not trying to be perfect. Trying to heal that bit of me.
Peace all,
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I know that as a result I have caused pain and confused or annoyed people here, and also have given too much advice on some occasions when it would have been better not to give any at all.
Bless you all, thank you all.
You have a lot of insight, Stormy, but I think perhaps the above is not quite accurate. As others have said, you have a lot to offer here, and I have noticed in particular where you have said before about hurting people, and I have looked closely to see where these wounded people are that you have left in your wake. Strangely enough, I don't find them.
I am not sure that you have caused pain, Stormy. Not as you see it. (I am sure I have done far far worse!! :oops: :oops: ) Is it possible that you are projecting your own pain onto us, and imagine that you are therefore making us hurt? Perhaps you are the one who is hurting? Maybe you are also the one who is confused and annoyed at times, I don't know. If it is you who are hurt, not us, then you do not need to leave. Your pain is allowed, and you are welcome to remain, whether laughing or crying. Maybe a bit of both together. :lol: :cry: :lol:
I would be very sorry to lose you from this board, but whatever you decide, whether to go or stay, I wish you well. Pax vobiscum.
(((((((hugs)))))))
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Hey, Stormchild. I have missed your great sense of humor on this board. I, for one, have totally blown it on this board, and elsewhere in life, and very much expect I will do that again. Trying NOT to, of course, but I really like the people here, and have learned lots from what they say...in particular YOU! You forgave me for being an idiot once, (or was that several times :roll: ?), and I am sure no one thinks too much about a well intended, intellegent person like yourself not being perfect on occassion.
We are all working on improving ourselves here, improving our relationships and you have really helped me do this.
Honestly, today I was happy to see your name in several places on the board.
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ive just missed you and thought you were brilliant and funny and i was hoping you were ok.
being critical comes with high standards and its good to have high standards but please dont be too hard on yourself.
we are all making emotional omelettes here and breaking eggs right and left. break a few eggs, throw them against the wall. i think nobody here holds it against you at all. life is messy, we wil clean it up, we'll go on.
ive thought about you a lot.
anna
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Hi Stormchild
I'm late coming in on this thread but I wanted to say, "It's great to see you!!"
I hope you will continue visiting this board. I missed you!
((Storm))
Your friend,
Mia
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Awwwwww jeeeeeeez. People, you're making me cry. But it's a good thing.
I'm afraid to say much more. Just I'm really grateful. Thank you. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Hey Stormy,
I just wanted to add my voice to the people here who have told you how much they have appreciated your insight and support in the past.
I also want to second the notion that you don't have to worry about making mistakes here. We all have.
I ought to know. I may have just set a new record for deleted posts. :oops: :( :oops:
I really hope the responses to this thread show you not only how much value people put on you here, but how easily mistakes are forgiven and forgotten here as well.
What was that old song by the Hollies? Wasn't it something like "She ain't codependent, she's my sister"? Pretty close I think. :wink:
mudpup
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Stormy,
I echo the thoughts of the others and am so glad to see you back and posting. I miss your clever quips and vast intelligence. I even tried to pass myself off as being as bright as you are once--didn't work so well. :roll: Since I haven't made any mistakes yet this year (or is that this hour) I don't have anything to apologize for or feel badly about. :wink:
I think we still have some dinner table discussions left in us. Please stick around and add your 2 cents--Euros--pence, whatever.
Hugs,
Brigid
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Hi Stormy
Much of what your original post said rang true for me. It is easy for me to get locked into the sage role and I am trying to deal with my codependent traits also.
I have had years of good therapy and it is amazing to me that it still is so difficult to break those patterns of behavior on a daily basis. A good start for me was to go down the path of really feeling my emotions in my body as they arise. That means not intellectualizing my feelings but actually feeling them. It is based on David Berenson's map of emotions. THe map is divided into spaces, emotions and moods. The theory is if you allow yourself to actually feel the emoitons as they occur in your body you will stay with the emotions and ultimately move to the spaces, sort of a neutral area. If we deny the feelings you drop to the moods like self pity, blame, martyr etc..
Owning our feelings and experiencing them, even the ones we are not comfortable with, has been very powerful for me. That and joining a group therapy type situation with other women who have codependent traits. WE try to keep ourselves real and grounded in the emotions as we go through our daily lives. Even after all the book reading, therapy, etc., I still find it can be difficult to rememebr the advice when under stress. Our habits are so ingrained.
I can email you the map of emoitons if you send your email address.
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Well,one more thought. If you have the courage to come back here and admit what you think are your weaknesses,,then I do too! And I don't think they are weaknesses. I think you are just being genuine. Which gives me the courage to be genuine also....Take care...
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:01 am Post subject: Admitting My Codependence
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For the last three weeks I have been thinking about codependence and the Karpman and Quinby triangles of interactions.
Although I have been struggling with codependent traits for a long time, I have realized that they are still terribly powerful in me.
I still tend to lock myself into a 'sage advisor' role, or allow myself to be subtly pushed and then pigeonholed there, since it is the only 'safe' role I was allowed to have as a child. I still hate that and feel helpless to alter it.
I still express myself inappropriately under stress, react with inappropriate anger when I feel unsupported, and withdraw too far when I feel attacked.
And I am far too critical of narcissists, and nowhere near critical enough of my own reactive patterns around anyone who seems the least bit N-ish to me. It's not wrong to see narcissists for what they are... but it doesn't help to stop there. I haven't moved far enough beyond that.
You seemed to be discribing me here!
All my life I was "sage advisor" Im sick of it in myself,but eveyone does seem to come to me for advice and it is the safe place I always fall into. All my life I took care of my mother (a classic N) I am caught in a terrible N relationship. I feel that whatever you have to say can be helpful. Perhaps to one person or to many. I too can be far too picky but perhaps its because i have been picked apart all my life. I am always having to defend myself.
Dont be hard on yourself. You have come to face yourself and you have become aware. So few ever reach that point. Myself am struggling with co dependence and feeling that i Must "perform" to be loved and to be thought of as valued. i hope you keep posting. We all have something to say and for a reason.
wildrain-
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And I am far too critical of narcissists, and nowhere near critical enough of my own reactive patterns around anyone who seems the least bit N-ish to me. It's not wrong to see narcissists for what they are... but it doesn't help to stop there. I haven't moved far enough beyond that.
I know that as a result I have caused pain and confused or annoyed people here, and also have given too much advice on some occasions when it would have been better not to give any at all.
I don't know you very well, Stormchild, but I just wanted to say that it might help to give yourself a break. I know you're under tremendous stress right now, and this may not be the best time in your life to evaluate your behavior or withdraw from a supportive environment. Just my thoughts, of course, but on reading over your original post, it struck me that you are being very hard on yourself.
Not that self-evaluation doesn't have a role. Of course it does--here, in one's career, out in the "real world," everywhere. But I've found in my own life that there's a fine line between accurate self-assessment and a more sophisticated way of falling into my old, old trap of "Everything is my fault." Isn't the point to recognize one's behavior, modify it accordingly, and grow where necessary without withdrawing from or destroying valuable relationships?
Obviously, people here who have gotten to know you, value you--your insight, your wit, your intelligence, your contribution. That's something; it's a lot. If we wait until our reactions/behavior/engagement are perfectly tuned, will we ever allow anybody to know us?
I'm sorry if this seems like sticking my (rather large) nose where it doesn't belong. I just wanted to say that I hope you remember to be as kind to, and understanding of, yourself as you obviously have been regarding others.
Wishing you peace,
daylily
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Hi Stormchild! Everyone else has already beat me here and said great things that I can only ditto.
Don't you think it is awfully co-dependent to protect us from your co-dependent "mistakes" by leaving? I say that as one recovering (every day in the AA sense) co-dependent to another. I can't think of a better place than here to come and practice and make mistakes and offend people and find out how to work it out well for everyone.
In case it isn't clear, I would like you to stay here as well. Post whatever you want. Haven't you seen my "blog" of daily happenings. If people can tolerate that, I think they will be thrilled to have you here! Even at the risk of another outbreak of "asterisk fever." :)
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Stormchild,
Personally I believe this is a very appropriate place for you to visit and interact with others. I think we all at times can act/react "inappropriately", after all we are human. I think as long as someone is able to recognize when they do this after a short while and when they get feedback that there is not a major problem. I tend to be a perfectionist some, so a loooong time ago I decided I was going to be perfectly imperfect ;) ... which is what I am anyways ...
I think this place may make you a bit uncomfortable, I could be wrong here so ignore what I am about to say if it doesn't "fit". It seems to me that this is a place where you can help and also be helped yourself. I think that makes you feel uncomfortable. I think that you feel comfortable giving help, but not comfortable needing or being given help. If I'm correct here than I think the healthiest thing you could do for yourself is stick around.
Conflict is not always a bad thing. It's unresolved conflict that I think leads to real problems. Resolving conflict is part of what life is about. And you know what Stormy, people just are not perfect and that's OK. You don't have to be perfect either. I think though that it is important to look for the silver lining in problems that we experience. Life is a strange thing, we can resist it or we can embrace it and LIVE.
LM
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Hiya Stormy:
Sorry I'm so late posting here. I'm having a hard time keeping up with all the threads (and I'll probably miss responding to people who post back after I post.. :oops: :oops: ).
Just want to add my voice to those that have said please stay and speak. I love your good sense and quick witt and whether you realize it or not, you are greatly valued here and would be very much missed, if you left.
So please don't. Please keep speaking and if it doesn't come out right all the time, or if you have regrets...it's only because you're not perfect, just the way we like you. :D
You do look back, re-examine, second guess, re-evaluate stuff and seem to try to correct whatever doesn't sit right with you, in a very humble way. What more can any person do?
((((((Stormy)))))
GFN
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Thanks -- again -- is all I can say.
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: