Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Guest2 on June 06, 2005, 05:37:49 PM
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I need help. Last night I got so furiously angry with my husband. I wanted him to leave so that I would not say anything too bad or do anything too permanent. Our young children were here. I screamed at him that I was going to kill him and hit him with my fist. Thank God he did not hit back but I think he was close. The kids were in the other room and could not see but they could hear some. I kept saying he should leave because I was so afraid of what I might do. I went to the kitchen and was waving around a big knife. I was so afraid I was going to stab him. I think he thought I was just being dramatic. Finally he left. I don't even know why I was so angry. He had put the little one in the bathtub with his clothes on because he was not willing to undress. It made me furious, and now I can't tell why. When the little one cries it just drives me crazy. Normally I just do whatever he wants to cheer him up, or I put him in a room with a closed door so I can't hear. I think there were some other upsetting things that happened early that day as well but none of them were that bad.
This really frightened me and I don't know what to do. My husband likes to sweep everything under the rug so he is not even going to act like anything happened unless I bring it up. He came back a couple of hours later and just went ahead and did his chores and went to bed.
I really think about leaving him a lot but the last time when I was really going to, he started cutting his arm.
We can't afford therapy. I am afraid for the children, witnessing such a dysfunctional situation. I think they mostly have a good life but not in terms of seeing a good marriage relationship.
Maybe being on this board has not helped. It has dredged up lots of stuff and I don't have any way to address it properly.
I need to gain control of myself so that I am not a risk to my family. I do not have any family around (probably a good thing) and no close friends (hubby saw to that). I do not want to risk losing my children, and there is no reason I should because they are well taken care of. We make too much money to get anything free but not enough to pay for it ourselves. Is there a book or something I can read, or some practical advice? This was the most frightening day I have had since I can remember.
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Guest2,
I'm going to be honest with you: I don't think you can do it on your own. I think you need help desperately. There are therapists who work on a sliding scale. Go on the internet, do a search for therapists in your area. Get a referral from work. Get one from a physician. But get help. I know what it's like to have out-of-control anger and it's not something that one can fix alone. Sorry it wasn't what you wanted to hear. You get a lot of points for acknowledging you're out of control. That's half the battle. I think there are some serious problems with your husband, too, but I'm focusing on you since you're posting and he isn't.
bunny
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Guest2, this is scary stuff. :( It is a big step for you to recognize your difficulty with anger and to seek help because you care about yourself and your family. That's a huge step and congratulations on doing that. It may not feel like something to celebrate to you right now, but that is a very hopeful sign. I ditto everything bunny said, she is a wise and caring soul. You might also look for therapy or counseling through local churches. You usually do not have to be a member or even a Christian to get help from them. They also may have provisions to help you pay for it as well. I'm sorry, I don't have any specific book recommendations on anger, maybe someone else here will. Keep posting here and let us know how things are going with you.
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Hello Guest 2,
The more frightened you are of your actions, the more scared you will be. I've been there and done that. If your husband is cutting himself, you have a situation where you have children but also an adult child, your husband, who is not a partner in helping to parent your kids. and is adding to your frustration and anxiety. You have posted here and by doing so, you have shown that you want a healthy resolution to this problem. When you say you don't even know why you are so angry, it tells me you need to talk to someone....maybe us. Try us until you can find someone close to you. I think you should acknowledge your anger but don't beat yourself up about it. Just recognize that you have acknowledged to yourself the extreme situation you are in as you describe it and that acknowledgement is the first step to finding the answers. You must be a great mother since your concerns all center around your children. From what you describe your husband's actions to be, he is not actively participating in parenting which puts all the load on you? Maybe you're feeling that you have to take care of your kids and your husband? My hat's off to you for putting your kids first. Please keep posting. Vent all you want. You are not alone. take care....Bittles
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Thank you.
It is so nice to be listened to. I hear you. It is unrealistic to think I can turn this around on my own and I cannot run the risk. I realize now that in my life, I am almost never listened to. And if I do find a friend, I have too much pent up to dump suddenly on a new friend. I would scare them away. I know I am abnormal, I just don't know how abnormal I am and how much I can open up. I'm great at putting up a front.
I have been searching online for a therapist and I am going to try to talk with my husband about going. If he will not go, I am going anyway, and I hope by now he can let me address these issues without doing his usual passive-aggressive sabotage.
When you wrote back to me, you did it from the goodness and caring in your heart. Even though we have not met, I shared something painful and awful and ugly about myself and you responded with nurturing and a little push. It is making me cry all over again. I feel a little energy now to try to get some help. Before I felt stuck. I am so grateful.
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Thank you dogbit,
I will try to continue talking here although it makes me a little afraid of the pandora's box I am opening.
I do not really understand cutting. It is an attention-getting action? My husband is jealous of the kids but has long ago given up on having my undivided attention. Maybe I underestimate his resentment. He takes care of the kids but I have to organize everything and just delegate to him like a minimum wage employee. But from what I hear among my kids' friends' parents this is not totally unusual. He used to complain a lot but has given that up. Now he just walks about looking sullen, and sometimes he yells at the kids, so I have to take over. Lately he sees that I am falling apart and has been a little more cooperative. He is still pretty much passive-aggressive so I have given up on direct communication with him and just cut it back to the bare essentials.
He does say nice things about my parenting now and then, even when I have yelled at them sometimes and am feeling like a miserable parent.
My six year old son sometimes hits his head with his hand when he is angry with himself. I remember doing that when I was a child. I am worried about him.
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Hello Guest2 - the intensity and depth of your outbursts suggest a lot of accumulated anger. It may be ancient rage or maybe it is being triggered by recent events. A therapist is one person who may be able to help, however when weapons are at least handled ( if not used) then this matter assumes an urgency that should not be ignored..
I am also inclined to suggest that you look at the first three steps of the Al-Anon program at a nearby meeting . (That is Al-Anon not AA). The good ladies at that program will welcome you with empathy and support.
John.
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Hi Guest 2, please do look for help as everyone else has suggested. I understand how frightening this kind of anger can be.
I know I am abnormal, I just don't know how abnormal I am and how much I can open up. I'm great at putting up a front.
I think you’ve already turned a major corner, made a big step, in admitting something ain’t right with you. Huge step! If it helps, I don’t think you’re crazy, not at all. There’s a load of garbage from your childhood that’s affecting your life today and it needs cleaning out. It’s a task, like any other. It can be done and you don’t have to do it alone, in fact, like so many things, you need an expert to help. With someone else helping you can feel less frightened and also treat this as something that needs to be done, like having a surgical operation.
If he will not go, I am going anyway, and I hope by now he can let me address these issues without doing his usual passive-aggressive sabotage.
This is about you and not him. Good for you for saying you’ll go without him. It doesn’t matter what he thinks or does about you doing this: how bad does it have to get before one of you does something? Better to get some help than have physical harm.
I do not really understand cutting. It is an attention-getting action?
No, it’s quite personal to the person who self-harms. But if I was you I’d think about myself right now and worry about his behaviours much later. You can address and change what you think, feel and how you behave: you can’t change what he thinks, feels or does.
Keep posting. We care. portia
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Hi Guest 2
I want to ask you a question or 2 if that's okay?
Please let me say that when I read your post I really loved you. I loved your extremely intimate and personal raw honesty. I think you are a true human being.
You don't need to reply to me if you doin't want to.
Who are you really angry at? What happened?
What would you like to right?
I've already worked out that you don't want to hurt anybody. And least of all your kids. Give them big hugs and loving and everthing will be alright.
It'll be okay, Guest2. Even with what they've heard. Just determine to take out the time to think about who you're really angry at.
Is it you?
Your parent/s?
A previous a partner?
Your husband?
Things can be okay if you let them be. Some stuff is so hard to deal with at times. Self-soothing is a big lesson - well-earned.
It sounds like you have hubby issues. Is he okay with you? Is he faithful?
Is he understanding and helpful?
You have no personal support network? That isn't good.
I'm worrying for you, and hoping you're okay.
John
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Hi again Guest 2, I’d like to follow up with John. I agree with what he says, you come across as a warm, real person with great honesty (do you know how rare that is?). It might help you too if I disclose a bit of me? Who knows, here goes….
Who are you really angry at?
This is such an important question. A few years ago me and my H were very drunk (no excuse but sets the scene). We were arguing and it got physical. I got a knife and had it close to his face. I don’t know what I intended, to make him back off, to take some control, to frighten him, maybe to hurt me if I couldn’t take any more words? It’s pretty shameful to remember. But in the shouting, in my raging, he shouted one thing back which stopped me completely: and it’s what John said above. Actually my H said: “These things you’re shouting at me, they’re not about me! Who are you shouting at?”. I didn’t know but I realised it was in my head and I needed to help me. After that, no more fights, because it wasn’t between us, it was with me. Ouch ouch. It’s not easy and I feel you are a brave woman Guest 2. I want to say: it gets better, it gets much, much better.
Thinking of you and hoping you’ll go easy on yourself.
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Hiya Guest2:
Wow! How's the aftermath? Do you feel drained? Any relief from letting out some of the rage? Or worse....more anger...maybe toward yourself for your actions?
YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY PERSON ON EARTH WHO HAS EVER DONE SOMETHING LIKE THIS!!!
Praise to you for your shear, utter and true honesty!
Good for you for looking at yourself, your behaviour, and realizing you need help!
Great that you came here and posted for support!!
I am proud of you so far, Guest2. You are using your courage!! Way to go!!
So......here I go.....how about a woman's shelter?? (I love women's shelters because they have so many resourses sometimes!). They usually have counsellors available....at least someone objective to speak with. That might help temporarily until you are able to find/afford a therapist. Please call them if you are not able to get to a T right away. They will support you and maybe guide you to further help.
They understand violence and it's effects on people.
(((((((((Guest2)))))))))
You're doing good! You're facing hard stuff here and that is very, very brave! You will deal with this!
Please hug yourself and soothe your pain some, in small ways...but giving yourself a little break.....by not beating yourself up any further.....by giving yourself credit for moving ahead and toward improvement and for having the courage to work for that!!
It sounds like you may need a little time for you? Could you arrange for you to start something new.......a new class....join a group.....something to get you out of the house and around people? Something to look forward to and to have a little fun?
GFN
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Dear Portia:
It’s pretty shameful to remember.
((((((((Portia))))))))
You are very, very brave too and praise to you too for that honest gift to try to help another feel not quite so alone!!
You need not be ashamed any more. That's done, over, gone and you've come a very, very long way from then. Good for you P!!! What a great example you are!! What more could you do than that? What more could anyone do?
Facing our shameful, inappropriate behaviour is scary and painful. You and Guest2 have shown us all what real courage is!
GFN
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GFN............ :cry: :D :cry: :D I wish there was an emoticon for 'calm, accepting smile'. Words on the screen, pixels and bits and bytes still have me with wet in da eyes, thank you. Who was it said the healthier you get, the more emotional you become? Chutzbagirl I think. She's correct I feel.
Guest 2 how are you? Hope you're okay. best, portia
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It is great that you have identified your own anger issue. You cannot change your husband or children; however, you can change how you respond and be responsible for your own actions. I know you must be terribly frustrated; but, this is for your children. When they feel insecure it will cause them to act up and misbehave. The best thing you can do is be a source of security, consistency, and a safe refuge. You will be sacrificing yourself for them. Anger never solves anything but give the other person justification for treating you badly. Take away all of the other persons excuses. This may be very difficult as you probably have so much hate and anger for your husband. It becomes an act of the will to actually affirm him and find some way to give him a compliment. I know he doesn't deserve it; but, when was the last time your husband received a compliment from his wife? The "crazy cycle" will continue until one of you chooses to take a step to stop it. It sounds like it may have to be you because your husband may not be capable of it. You may throw him completely off balance.
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I will try to continue talking here although it makes me a little afraid of the pandora's box I am opening.
I know what you mean. It's sort of like "ringing the bell". Once it has rung, there's no turning back. It is an incredibly frightening feeling. Even though we are in a bad situation, we at least know what the situation is. And we keep thinking that if we are just smart enough or strong enough we can keep on going. Once we have rung the bell, we don't know what will happen. That fear will keep us in the same place. I think your anger is the bell ringing and not an indictment of who you are. Your anger may represent the bottom line of what is going on. The anger may be a blessing causing you to finally find out what is really going on. I don't think the anger is who you really are. I think if you keep posting here, it will give you a venue to talk about what is going on until you find someone near you (a.k.a. therapist or concerned other) to help you define the problem. From what you have written, your concern for your children sounds like you are already going in the right direction. Don't beat yourself up too badly in the meantime. Having young children is a job in itself. Combining that with trying to figure out the dynamics of a relationship is an extra job but well worth the effort. I hope you keep posting! Pandora's box let out the bad spirits but let's just suppose it can let out the good. Bittles
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Bittles, you are very wise. Guest 2: I believe this also. Anger is a symptom. It is not a person. Anger is meaningful...something to get us to wake up and take notice. When it becomes habitual is when it's not useful. You sound very smart and aware. You will find help. Newby's suggestion to find something positive to remark to your husband may sound nuts, but it makes sense. Someone has to step out of this.
Perhaps thanking him for removing himself from you when you had the knife. Seriously, that is something.
Thinking of you and wishing you well. (((((((Guest 2)))))))
Portia, how brave of you, as well, to share your story.
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Hey P:
Words on the screen, pixels and bits and bytes still have me with wet in da eyes, thank you.
You're very welcome.
Thankyou for being so generous and dredging up old bones.
You have made soup!! Soaked out what's good from them and shared.
Ok ....enough from me....trying not to do the hijack thingy.
:D
GFN
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Please let me say that when I read your post I really loved you. I loved your extremely intimate and personal raw honesty. I think you are a true human being.
Thank you. Of course I have trouble believing your kind words, but that is my problem. Who could love me?
Who are you really angry at? What happened?
Good question. I know that I am angry and about what, but I cannot make a connection between that and what was happening at the moment I boiled over. Maybe there is some incident in my past that I cannot remember. In general, I am angry at my mother for not protecting and supporting me, and for not loving me unconditionally. At my father and grandmothers for not loving me and not even trying to hide it, at previous love relationships for screwing me over, at myself for being too submissive (past) and too aggressive (current solution to problems). At my husband for not loving all of me (he says he loves 60% of me and the rest he wishes would disappear) and pressuring me into marriage when I was depressed. And for making me hide myself, the part that he cannot deal with.
I am grateful to my grandfather, who loved and supported me unconditionally. He died when I was 14, but I still grieve him. I am grateful to the neighbors who fed me when there was no food at home and where I witnessed happy families in action. I am grateful to my high school english teacher who let me tell her I had been raped and cry and kept her word not to tell anyone.
What would you like to right?
Most of them are dead. I have given up on my mom. But maybe my sister will live long enough to have a real relationship with me. My husband is younger than my sister but I am not sure we will live long enough to have a real relationship.
The main thing I want to do is stop the cycle and send my kids out with a healthy family history so we will not be seeing them posting on any board like this! No offense, since this board is saving my life. But I want them not to have such awful things to heal.
I've already worked out that you don't want to hurt anybody. And least of all your kids. Give them big hugs and loving and everthing will be alright.
No it won't. Unless I fix it. I have been hoping they will not be too scarred but I think I had better be more active. If I really don't want to hurt anyone, I can't sit back and let it deteriorate.
It sounds like you have hubby issues. Is he okay with you? Is he faithful? Is he understanding and helpful?
I don't know if he is faithful. Probably, but he is so hard to read, and he does not think that telling the truth all the time is important. He travels and has opportunities. And I found things on his computer where he has downloaded sexy pix from escort services in cities where he travels. Before that, he had said he never masturbates or looks at porn, I found that hard to believe, especially given our lack of sex life. I don't know why he lied about it, because I was ok with it, I just want to know the truth. He claims he got the pictures from those services because it made it easier to imagine, since he travels to those cities. Do I look stupid to you?
When I talk to him, half the time he does not say anything back, not even uh-huh, or make eye contact. This was so maddening that I have all but stopped talking to him, and I think he likes it that way. I felt like he was just using my need to communicate, to get at me and make me angry so I would be unhappy and explode, then I would once again be the bad one. I think he has issues and somewhere deep underneath his thick leather hide he knows it, but as long as I am worse, he won't have to deal with himself.
You have no personal support network? That isn't good.
Yes. Sigh. This is when you need an old friend. They are all gone now since I was married. Before, I had friends for years and years, even though I moved around a lot.
I'm worrying for you, and hoping you're okay.
I'm ok for now. I just need to keep telling my story, and doing something to untangle the mess. It does feel a relief after the storm, I just have to use this time constructively before the pressure builds up again. I cannot believe what I did. If you guys pray out there, pray for us.
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Hi Guest2,
Who could love me?
Why couldn't anyone love you? Just because you're angry at all the people who treated you badly? They're the ones who aren't loveable.
Your grandfather loved you. I'll bet your kids love you. I bet the friends you had loved you.
They are all gone now since I was married. Before, I had friends for years and years, even though I moved around a lot.
Can you find them and call them, just to talk?
Does your husband want a divorce? What the heck is the matter with him? He sounds bizarre.
I don't know if he is faithful. Probably, but he is so hard to read, and he does not think that telling the truth all the time is important.....
He claims he got the pictures from those services because it made it easier to imagine, since he travels to those cities. Do I look stupid to you?
Why do you say he is probably faithful? I'm not sure the rest of those statements support that conclusion. :? :(
If you guys pray out there, pray for us.
Consider it done.
mudpup
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"Ouch ouch. It’s not easy and I feel you are a brave woman Guest 2. I want to say: it gets better, it gets much, much better.
Thinking of you and hoping you’ll go easy on yourself."
Thank you Portia. Thank you for sharing your experience. I feel like the worst monster on earth and it helps. I am not beating myself up or berating myself it just feels like a fact. But I am determined to fix it, for my kids. I love them so much. They are really the ones saving my life because I am only motivated because of them
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guest 2: gotcha on that one: "my kids are saving me". And we think they need us, huh?
I really think I understand how angry you were. If someone was not reacting and yet quietly, very possibly, creating the tension....I would lose it. I know I would. I am so sorry you felt this way.
There must be a way for you to talk to someone in the area, I mean a professional. Could you ask for a referral from your doctor? Please stay open to help coming along.
I am sending you all the positive thoughts/ prayers/ love and light I can muster. I will keep you in my thoughts. There will be an answer.
Keep the faith, friend.
Mum
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Thank you to everyone who has responded on this thread. All of your thoughts and ideas and, yes, attention is like rain in the desert. I do not feel as invisible.
Response to GFN:
Thank you for the hug. I feel it. I will try all the suggestions on how to get help.
"Praise to you for your sheer, utter and true honesty!" Thank you. I feel that honesty is all I have left. I have to get rid of most of the rest that I am built of, because it is faulty. I don't know what will be left!
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Hi mudpup,
thanks for helping.
After 7 years I don't think I can call an old friend to unload my huge burden! I will try to think of someone, though.
"Does your husband want a divorce? What the heck is the matter with him? He sounds bizarre."
Thanks for saying that. In this house I am the sick one, not him, remember? He is the one from an intact family. He is the one who says his childhood was totally normal. That was one thing that attracted me to him. I do not believe it anymore. Another lie.
"Why do you say he is probably faithful? I'm not sure the rest of those statements support that conclusion."
I am not sure whether he is or not. But I have lost all desire for physical contact. I manage the money and if it were costing much I would know. Also, he is pretty repressed about sex, however, that is probably only with me, as the pix he looks at (still, I am sure) are pretty advanced.
I guess I just don't want to have to deal with that right now, too.
Guest2
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PS My husband does not want a divorce. I don't know exactly why but I am sure it is not because he is so in love with me. I think it is the stigma, the fact that his sister is still married, and he wants to be taken care of.
But who is taking care of me? I ask you.
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(((((((((((((Guest2))))))))))))))
I am so very sadddened and sorry to read about you having been raped. And at such a very vulnerable tender young age. That is something that is dreadfully difficult to deal with at anytime, and even years later it's still just as awful. That you had to keep it a secret is almost too difficult to for me to comprehend. It seems like something that you'd need to shout at and scream at from the roof tops.
You are in my thoughts (((((((Guest2)))))))). Please keep posting. You don't have to talk about any of this if it's too painful. But then maybe it could be helpful. I don't know. But then this is cyber world and you are safely anon. If you can't even talk about it here, then where can you?
John
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Hi again Guest2:
Ok......please take another look at what you wrote:
I have to get rid of most of the rest that I am built of, because it is faulty. I don't know what will be left!
This is a thought, not a fact.
True....you have had some nasty experiences and they have caused harm.
True....you have honesty as a quality that is admirable.
What else Guest2? I refuse to believe this is the only good thing about you or the only thing you have going for you. Aren't I a pain in the bum???
If I were there with you and I knew you ......I bet I could make a long list of your assets and be sure I would right now. Things that aren't faulty. Things that come naturally, are just part of you, and are good.
I understand that you feel badly about what you did. What I'm trying to communicate to you is that that is different than what you are. You ...are a good person, Guest2, who behaved in a way that you found unacceptable (as most people would). That doesn't change who you are.
The person you are may be seething with anger.....which probably needs to come out. Once it comes out......you will still be the same person, just feeling less angry. See what I mean?
So please....go a little easy on yourself. How about making a list of the good things about you, the good things you've done, the good things you enjoy, etc. ?? This is no cure for what ails. It's just a reminder that you have plenty of good in you and have behaved well and have experienced good stuff too, in your life. Remembering to pay attention to the good in you too will help you to overcome the stuff you would like to improve.
For instance: If you think: "I'm a very determined person. I accomplished blank". This will help you to think:
"I can overcome this too".
I'm not sure that you have to get rid of anything you're built of. I'm not sure that is even possible. But you can think about it differently, work on feeling better about yourself, work on making changes that you want and what will be left.......will be something much better than what you started out with, is my very best bet!
(((((((Guest2))))))
Hope this helps a little.
GFN
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A quick one Guest 2
I feel that honesty is all I have left.
How important is honesty to you? Honesty is top of my list. Some folks might have 'love' at the top of their list. Or 'achievement'.
I don't think you can live a worthwhile life unless you're honest, at least with yourself. But that's just me, a world without love might be unbearable for many.
At the risk of stepping into Cosmic Joe/various guest :) names territory, have you done any online personality tests? This might seem pretty banal stuff right now. On the other hand, it might help you think about yourself. There are lots if you're interested.
I didn't know until I came here that I'm an introvert for example. That helped me a lot. keep posting! portia
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Hi Guest2,
But who is taking care of me? I ask you.
Nobody is.
So maybe the first thing you need to do is start taking care of yourself?
Have you done what some have suggested and checked at women's shelters or local churches for some counselling help? The local DA may be able to help also. They usually are connected to anger management counsellors through the courts.
He is the one who says his childhood was totally normal. That was one thing that attracted me to him. I do not believe it anymore. Another lie.
Any guy who starts cutting himself when his wife says she is going to leave has some very serious, deep seated issues going on.
But it also sounds like he is not the root of your problem, he only makes it worse with his aloofness and insensitivity.
So its back to you helping you.
Generally speaking if we really put our minds to something we can usually get it. So maybe if you just concentrate on doing what you need to for your kids, doing the bare minimum for your husband and put the rest of your energy to finding some local help you can find some.
Take care. I hope you're doing a little better today.
mudpup
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Thank you everyone for the enormous help you are giving me. I try to respond to all the points, but sometimes if I don't it means that I am not ready to address the truth you are speaking. But I hear it.
"You are in my thoughts (((((((Guest2)))))))). Please keep posting." Yes I think I will. I feel better just talking and being listened to. It is helping me open up my luggage and empty it out.
"You don't have to talk about any of this if it's too painful. ...If you can't even talk about it here, then where can you?"Um, no place. I am not sure I can tell everything but I am going to tell something every time. Please keep reading! It has been a long time since I felt like what I had to say was interesting to anyone. I treasure that feeling. Thanks John and everyone who is out there.
"The person you are may be seething with anger.....which probably needs to come out. Once it comes out......you will still be the same person, just feeling less angry. See what I mean? "
That is indeed logical. Until it comes out - how corroded are my insides going to get? How much more twisted are my thoughts going to be? How much more will I realize or remember? And when it comes out - who will be killed in the avalanche? This is the fear I have. I want a drug as insurance so I don't get all out of control again. I thought I had an old bottle of prozac...I'm going to search the house.
"So please....go a little easy on yourself. How about making a list of the good things about you, the good things you've done, the good things you enjoy, etc. ??" Will try to get off my bum and stop wallowing in it now.
"I'm not sure that you have to get rid of anything you're built of. I'm not sure that is even possible." Please let it be possible. I am built of being ignored and devalued and told in every way possible to shut up and disappear. I want to tear that down and give myself some niceness. Otherwise what I am is coming out onto my kids and they do not deserve it.
When you listen to me and give me caring advice and words, I am building a little part of myself back with that.
"Hope this helps a little. "
A Lot. Thank you GFN
"How important is honesty to you? Honesty is top of my list. Some folks might have 'love' at the top of their list. Or 'achievement'."It is tops on my list also. If you have love without honesty, is it really love?
If you are saying that I have the most important thing already, thank you. I had not thought of that. Yes, I agree. So I have a solid foundation to build on after all the crap is torn off.
"...have you done any online personality tests? ...There are lots if you're interested. ? I can try it. I will try about anything. Where are they?
Thank you portia!
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"Have you done what some have suggested and checked at women's shelters or local churches for some counselling help?" Not yet. I have decided to do so. I have looked up some places. But the next step is the big one, can I do it? I am afraid of losing my kids. I have heard so many horror stories (well, off the internet and such). If I seek help and tell the truth, will I be seen as a menace to my children?
"Any guy who starts cutting himself when his wife says she is going to leave has some very serious, deep seated issues going on.
But it also sounds like he is not the root of your problem, he only makes it worse with his aloofness and insensitivity." Yes. How did you know that? He made it worse by not accepting me, after acting like he would be so accepting. And by not being close to me, and driving everyone else away. I feel understanding him to some extent is important because otherwise he is treating me in a way I don't like, for reasons I can't understand. It helps me to see that he is not a monster, not correct in being cold and distant to me, does have issues which prevent him from getting close to me and it is not some lack in myself.
"Take care. I hope you're doing a little better today." Thank you mudpup
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If I were there with you and I knew you ......I bet I could make a long list of your assets and be sure I would right now. Things that aren't faulty. Things that come naturally, are just part of you, and are good.
Ok here goes.....I'm smart (no wait, I didn't figure out that my husband who cuts himself has problems), um ok I'm nice (hey wasn't that me waving a butcher knife at him) ok scratch that, ah, I can whistle!
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I am afraid of losing my kids.
I was scared of the same thing when my kids were little and my husband just didn't participate. Actually, he didn't come home much. Said he was a workaholic but I think he just couldn't deal with the home situation. I became angry and angrier and kept trying to hold it together and then I started getting help. Nobody took my kids away! Forgive me, but your husband sounds like he is just renting a room in your house. By the way, there is also pastoral counseling available in some areas and calling a crisis hotline can leave you anonymous and be able to get some references. Hang in there! I've had my own meltdowns and my kids delight in reminiscing about them although at the time, it wasn't amusing. Bittles
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My husband is performing an essential function in this house. He is the recipient of my anger. I cannot channel my rage towards my innocent children. He is like a release valve where I send the force of my hate.
It is so not fair. Yes, he does things to make that happen, to make me more angry than I ever would have been. Still it is not right. But if he were not here, where would all my ugliness go? Where else? So his presence is important if for no other reason than to save my kids.
At least my kids are learning that life after a meltdown goes on.
And they feel free to say they don't like me because I threw daddy out. I explained to the oldest one that I was so angry I was afraid I was going to do the wrong thing, like hit daddy, andI just needed to cool off. Actually I think a good lesson came from it. But overall it was not a good thing.
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Forgive me, but your husband sounds like he is just renting a room in your house.
You are right in a way. I tell him often I feel like I'm alone. I don't know who he is and he does not want to know who I am. I just make the agenda and he follows the family plan. He is here because I make a big deal if he is not. But is he really here?
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Hiya Guest2, who knows where a moment or two on the net may lead? When you want to think about something completely different, here are those sites….take care, Portia
My favourite quick and simple personality test http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp it changed my outlook on life. It may not for you, but hey, it’s free.
about Myers Briggs http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/tt/t-articl/mb-simpl.htm
about anger http://www.mtoomey.com/violating_liberating.html
I like this site http://www.healthyplace.com/site/tests/psychological.asp
But I could spend way too much time there, so I don’t. Much :D
now I’m just getting silly http://www.allthetests.com/ but what's wrong with silly I say? take a moment and do a daft test, a smile or laugh is free too 8)
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Hey again Guest2:
"The person you are may be seething with anger.....which probably needs to come out. Once it comes out......you will still be the same person, just feeling less angry. See what I mean? "
That is indeed logical. Until it comes out - how corroded are my insides going to get?
Yes it is fairly logical isn't it? How corroded are you going to allow your insides to get?
How much more twisted are my thoughts going to be? How much more will I realize or remember?
Thoughts do not hurt anyone but the thinker (if they are not nice thoughts and even then.....some are a good release).
If you realize and remember more, it will be a good thing because that means it will be coming to the surface, rather than hiding way down deep.
And when it comes out - who will be killed in the avalanche? This is the fear I have.
You can have an avalnache in a safe place, like a room with a pillow to punch and a teddy to hug or you can do it with the support of a therapist.
I suggest also trying a rape crisis centre. They should be able to refer you to someone who will help. This is not the end of the world. It might seem like it but it isn't. You can live through it and must ignor the fear, go ahead and try to work through all of your pain, imo.
I want a drug as insurance so I don't get all out of control again. I thought I had an old bottle of prozac...I'm going to search the house.
Please do not self medicate. If you really think you need something, go to emerg or to your family doc but don't try to do it on your own.
Will try to get off my bum and stop wallowing in it now.
Thata a girl and by the way, you're not the only one who's ever wallowed! :D
"I'm not sure that you have to get rid of anything you're built of. I'm not sure that is even possible." Please let it be possible. I am built of being ignored and devalued and told in every way possible to shut up and disappear. I want to tear that down and give myself some niceness. Otherwise what I am is coming out onto my kids and they do not deserve it.
It is indeed true, not just possible. What was ignored, devalued, told to shut up, disappear? Do you remember that person? What good qualities can you recall? You are still she.
When you listen to me and give me caring advice and words, I am building a little part of myself back with that.
So glad it helps. Please keep trying and posting and hoping. No quitting and giving up, ok??
If I seek help and tell the truth, will I be seen as a menace to my children?
More likely, you'll be seen as a person who cares deeply enough about her children to seek help and become a better parent. How about a parenting class? Would you consider going? Maybe your husband would too? That would be a really great thing to do! It won't hurt and it's really interesting to learn about different ideas of how to deal appropriately with children. It will help both of you to focus on the kids, which is soo important, right?
Ok here goes.....I'm smart (no wait, I didn't figure out that my husband who cuts himself has problems), um ok I'm nice (hey wasn't that me waving a butcher knife at him) ok scratch that, ah, I can whistle!
This is self defeating. Try again. :D :D
Tell us about a good memory, if you like?
Or something you enjoyed/enjoy doing?
Are you a good friend? Do you consider yourself a decent wife? A good mother? What do you like?
((((((Guest2))))))
I think your wrote in the "anything" thread that you will be starting therapy soon. Yipeeeeeeeeee!!! Wonderful!!! Fantastic!!! Way to go!!!
Now that's a big step! Congratulations for taking it, for having the courage, for following through.
Another few good things about you........uses courage, moves past fear towards goal, whistles like a birdie!! :D :D
(I seriously loved the show "Andy Griffith Show" for that whistling song at the beginning).
GFN
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for the ideas. BTW that was not me who is starting therapy. (Maybe I should get a better sign-in name.) I have not figured that one out yet. In the 45 seconds I have to myself each day I am basically posting here (which has been enormously helpful. Thank you) or searching something to do with analyzing my situation. So no champagne yet.
I don't think I need parenting classes. Not because I am always doing the right thing, that is certain. But because knowing that I did not want to parent the way I had been parented, I looked everywhere for better models, better philosophies, better examples. I've read dozens of books, been to many talks. I look for people who are doing wonderful things to kids and try to model their behavior. Almost every day I hear a nice phrase that respects the child's self image or a nice way to express "no" or some such tidbit I can tuck into my repertoire. Because I want to clear out any parenting ideas that come from my experience in my family.
My challenge is to implement all or most of the time what I know is right. Whenever the background noise of my past gets too loud and my mental energy level too low, or something triggers me, I start to spout those old messages I heard over and over and over again. Knowing how bad and wrong and destructive and mean they are but still being unable to keep it from spilling out. This is happening much too often and lately the intensity is so great that it frightens me.
Before the other day, I could always look back and pinpoint a moment of choice where I could have gone the right way but I chose the wrong way. And by thinking it through and trying to practice the right way to approach and react, I was improving as a parent I thought. But that day, I did not feel like I was really in control, or rather I felt like my control was hanging by a thread. I felt like I was a hair away from doing something with lasting effects, with maybe no way to keep from doing what I could already foresee even at that moment was disastrous. I know enough to apologize and explain to my kids, and I think that makes a difference, but I still think it would be way better to just clean out the basement. I had been practicing my husband's way of dealing with things and thought that just pushing them back would make them disappear. Thought it was kind of working. Naturally, that was stupid beyond words.
I'm just a little concerned about where all the junk is going to end up. Once you pull it all out, it's going to stay a mess for a while, right? What if it all won't fit back in? What if I don't find a way to dispose of it? What if everyone sees my mess and I will become an outcast? Is there room in my life for this mess? No. Can I somehow pull it out one piece at a time? And retain control? (Have I used the word control a lot in this post?) I feel like I am holding this family together and I can't just flop down, unzip my zipper and pull all the stuffing out to be replaced with fresh, clean stuffing. As much as I would like to do that. I'm like Matt(?) in Yertle the Turtle. If I fall down the whole stack will collapse. I'm not doing a good job by any means, but it's better than nothing. I cannot blame my husband for not being the one to step in (and believe me, that is a rare statement on my part). He is a mess too.
Also, my kids need to see a good marriage relationship, as someone here pointed out. That is one area I have limited means to observe. That, you need to see up close, and seeing how people behave in public is not really helping with that, and to be honest, some of those self help books I think are way off base.
I thought I was gettting a partner who could provide that and he could teach me what a normal relationship was. But it looks like that is not the case. He just seems to go along with my dysfunctional or theoretical ideas about the relationship. Because that is all I have to draw on. I am wandering in the wilderness - why is he following me?
I did one of the personality tests. It was interesting.
Ok I read your admonition not to self medicate. In any case, looking for the prozac is number 35 on my urgent list of things to do, so I have time to think about it.
I find it very hard to plan anything fun for myself or write down good things for myself. You might have noticed this when I made a joke of it. When I even pre-think making such a list, each item gets shot down with a dozen buts and bad things. So it is not a pleasant task.
If I try to plan something for myself, I end up thinking it is probably more stress-relieving to just take that time and do one of the overdue things on my list.
I know all your suggestions are good ones. It is just going to take some time to implement. I did actually say something nice to my husband.
I've been in therapy before, briefly, and even if it is good I leave there feeling like I have peeled off a layer of my skin and maybe 2. I did have some decent therapists but since I used to move a lot due to work, I have never had the same one for long. Lately it is a logistical and financial issue. When I was alone, the risk of falling apart was less. Right now I have almost no time to myself. I have to be functioning all the time. I don't feel safe tearing down my personality to heal it back properly. On the other hand, what is the alternative? Just a sudden chernobyl?
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Guest2 (I hope you come up with another name soon, maybe SOON would be a good other name ;)),
If you don't mind answering how old are your children and how old are you and your husband? Are your children in any type of school during any part of the week? Also do you work outside of the home?
You seem to have a good sense of humor, that has always helped me a lot. I've been pretty mad at my husband a few times, never pulled a knife on him ... I did a few times tell him he might as well get ready to take me to the funny farm ... also a few times I told him I was going to go sit outside or in our room for a few minutes ALONE.
I think contacting a woman's shelter to see what resources they can point you to is an excellent idea. Plus just being able to come here and vent some is helpful.
LM (kind of a strange name, yes? At least it is recognizable and distinguishable :)).
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((((((Guest 2)))))), I can hear your frustration and pain. You are doing a really good job of recognizing and identifying what it is. Do you realize how important that is?
It's ok not to know what to do about it at the moment. But many people don't even look at what it is that hurts. Those people will neve get better. That you can say it, out loud, at least here, is HUGE.
I wish I could give you a magic bullet....pill....whatever. Unfortunately...or wait a minute.....fortunately...it doesn't work that way. Kind of like dieting. The only kind that really works to "lose weight" is nothing special at all.. It's a lot of things, like eating a certain way, exercising enough and mostly, getting a mindset and thinking pattern and habit that supports that way of life. It's a big salad of ingredients.
You will find a way to assemble the needed ingredients.....have faith. Your INTENTION is sooooo powerful. Focus on what that is. Keep that intention always as your bottom line, your central focus. It is a good one...a loving one. Things will come to you.
Phillip, on another thread, talks about the higher vibrations of positive intention/thought. Lots of healers, spiritual teachers, etc., say that very thing in different ways (prayers, good thoughts, etc).
That loving intention IS your higher vibration....stick with it. The rest will come to you....don't focus on the negative spiral of duality (if I choose this, then this might happen, and then this might happen.....I know , I get stuck in that too).
Just stay focused on what you want....your good intention. That's where it all starts...EVERYTHING! Forget about needing to have the METHOD or PATH to get there all figured out. There is no "there" anyway. It's the NOW, the "traveling" that life really is.
You can do this, guest2......you have the love, the power. Relax, have faith that you can create what you want!!!!
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I'm just a little concerned about where all the junk is going to end up. Once you pull it all out, it's going to stay a mess for a while, right? What if it all won't fit back in? What if I don't find a way to dispose of it? What if everyone sees my mess and I will become an outcast? Is there room in my life for this mess? No. Can I somehow pull it out one piece at a time? And retain control? (Have I used the word control a lot in this post?) I feel like I am holding this family together and I can't just flop down, unzip my zipper and pull all the stuffing out to be replaced with fresh, clean stuffing. As much as I would like to do that. I'm like Matt(?) in Yertle the Turtle. If I fall down the whole stack will collapse. I'm not doing a good job by any means, but it's better than nothing. I cannot blame my husband for not being the one to step in (and believe me, that is a rare statement on my part). He is a mess too.
This is what a relationship (as opposed to a few visits) with a therapist is all about. THEY ARE THE CONTAINER FOR ALL THE BAD STUFF AND THEY HOLD IT FOR YOU UNTIL IT BECOMES MANAGEABLE. But this only happens when you see the therapist regularly and develop a trusted relationship with them. And if you feel like you have been in surgery without anesthesia, TELL THE THERAPIST. They're supposed to help you with that!
I'm really, really hoping you will consider therapy. P.S. Taking anti-depressants is not self-medication. Self medicating refers to drinking, drugging in order to get high and escape.
bunny
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Thank you Mum and Bunny for hearing my fear and holding me.
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Hiya Formerly Guest2:
My challenge is to implement all or most of the time what I know is right. Whenever the background noise of my past gets too loud and my mental energy level too low, or something triggers me, I start to spout those old messages I heard over and over and over again. Knowing how bad and wrong and destructive and mean they are but still being unable to keep it from spilling out. This is happening much too often and lately the intensity is so great that it frightens me.
This is exactly why it might be a good idea to attend a parenting class. It's not because you don't know how to parent. It's not because you need help parenting. It's because you are a really good parent who wants to be even better. It's because you want to focus on the kids, focus on learning more, focus on sharing the learning and the doing with your spouse, focus on the goal of teaching and loving your children. It's in order to get your focus in place. This may help to contain your less than desirable spillages, at least while you're around the children. It might give the repetition of new messages needed to over ride the old ones of the past. Just another way of looking at it. Maybe this wouldn't help at all but I think it might because it gets you out of the house and focussed, together, on a goal and then, maybe at home later, you will be more inclined to support eachother and keep that focus....encourage eachother?? Your fear will fade as you take positive action.
No parent is perfect and your concern for your children shows clearly in your writing. This is a good thing ...that concern. Maybe it is possible to turn it into something even more productive than concern??
Anyway ofcourse you will decide if this makes sense to you or not. It's not easy to find the time but it's something I doubt you'll regret, if you decide to find it.
I did not feel like I was really in control, or rather I felt like my control was hanging by a thread. I felt like I was a hair away from doing something with lasting effects, with maybe no way to keep from doing what I could already foresee even at that moment was disastrous.
If you are not in charge of your own actions, who is?
Sorry, Formerly Guest2, I don't mean to sound weird but who's in charge of you?
If you don't manage your own anger, who will?
This may be frightening. It may be very, very frustrating. But the bottom line is........who else has that control?
The way to avoid distastrous episodes is to put the knife down and YOU walk away. Then, be proud of yourself for doing so. For not giving in to the urge to do distastrous stuff!! Maybe walk around the block? Rip up paper? Do whatever it takes to stay in control of your own behaviour.
When you feel the frustration building.....that's maybe the best time to decide to do something differently. Ask yourself:
"Is this life or death? Can it wait? Can I cool for 5 min? Will anybody die if I take 5 minutes??"
Then go cool out some place. Get a drink of water. Breathe. Think about something else, something better for a few minutes. And again, reward yourself with good thoughts about what you're doing. Give yourself credit for working on change.
Hope some of this helps. ((((((((FG2)))))))
GFN
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My challenge is to implement all or most of the time what I know is right. Whenever the background noise of my past gets too loud and my mental energy level too low, or something triggers me, I start to spout those old messages I heard over and over and over again. Knowing how bad and wrong and destructive and mean they are but still being unable to keep it from spilling out. This is happening much too often and lately the intensity is so great that it frightens me.
I did not feel like I was really in control, or rather I felt like my control was hanging by a thread. I felt like I was a hair away from doing something with lasting effects, with maybe no way to keep from doing what I could already foresee even at that moment was disastrous.
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Why Am I so Angry?
I am going to try to make a brief list. I hope I have the courage to put it all in.
1. N mother who constantly criticizes, makes up stuff, didn't let me or help me grow up, and beat us with a belt until we bled.
2. Distant father, who kept me in the house all the time on our summer visits and told all his acquaintances that he had only one daughter, my sister.
3. Religious grandmother who told my mother I should never have been born.
4. Friend of a friend's boyfriend, who offered me a ride home from school and raped me.
5. Subsitute teacher at my high school, who raped me again.
6. First boyfriend, who lied to me for 5 years about his other girlfriend, as well as humiliated me by making out with other women at parties, etc.
7. First husband, who didn't even bother breaking up with his old girlfriends, and even brought one of them to our home when I was there, to have sex. Also assaulted me sexually, and took my money to give to his girlfriend.
8. Sister, for milking my guilt about what she went through and taking advantage.
9. Myself, for being such a doormat.
I think I will end here, because these things happened before I consider myself grown up, even though I was in my early 20s at the end of this list. Writing this, I realize that the things generating the rage all happened young and really got under my skin. Since then it has not been all wonderful but it affects me a different way. I feel more responsibility for things that happened to me as an adult, and have a much better way to get over it.
I think my first task has to be to address the rage.
Are you still reading all the way down here?
Thanks for listening,
Salamander girl, no make that Daisy...still looking for the perfect name!
Until then,
Formerly Guest 2
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Good for you FG2!
Keep working on that list! You don't have to put it here. But do finish it for your own clarity.
Wow! You sure have valid reasons for feeling so much anger! Especially if you have not dealt with all of the feelings resulting from those events.
I'm so very sorry for all you've been through. I feel angry just reading it!!! And I also feel a great sadness :( for the little girl, the young girl enduring all of that.
Your childhood/teen years sounds heart breaking. Everyone you should have been able to trust....hurt you. That was so unfair!
Are you sure you won't consider calling a rape centre? They will understand sooooo much of what you've been throught and will help you!
(((((((((FG2)))))))))
I'm proud of you for having the courage to write that list!
Hey! How about this for a name:
"Spunky"
Also means: Plucky
Spunky is defined as "spirited" and it's an informal synnonym for brave. See plucky.
That's you, if you ask me! I mean it! You've been baring your soul since you first posted here and that takes quite some courage!! What do you think?
GFN
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Salamander girl?!?
Holy smokes what idiot gave you that idea for a name? :roll:
Whoever that fool was you probably shouldn't listen to him. :P
I like Daisy a lot better. Spunky is also great. Anything but salamander girl. Sorry for the amphibious suggestion. It sounded better in theory than practice. Besides its too long.
Sorry you have been through so much. That you are still here fighting for a little dignity and respect and that you are a warm and kind person shows how strong you are.
Maybe Spunky is a pretty darn good name. It sure fits.
((((((((Formerly Guest2)))))))
mudpup
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Salamander girl?!?
Holy smokes what idiot gave you that idea for a name?
Whoever that fool was you probably shouldn't listen to him.
I don't recall who it was exactly....only that all his other advice was spot on!
I like Daisy a lot better....Anything but salamander girl. Sorry for the amphibious suggestion. It sounded better in theory than practice. Besides it's too long.
Yes, I prefer to have a name I can spell correctly without too much effort. Daisy is a bit too sweet. Who was it that suggested a flower name? How about.....NARCISSUS!!!!!!!!! (Author laughs uncontrollably and falls off chair)
Sorry you have been through so much. That you are still here fighting for a little dignity and respect and that you are a warm and kind person shows how strong you are.
Thank you. I am warm and kind sometimes. Other times I am biting and stinging. (Hey! maybe scorpion...)
Maybe Spunky is a pretty darn good name. It sure fits.
It just goes to show that I have actually made some progress. In the past, I would have taken offense and felt all kinds of bad. Now I just realize that you don't have any idea what you are saying! Spunky is a synonym for more than plucky or brave, I am here to tell you. So I think I will pass. If I tell you what it means it might not get past the filter....
Scorpion
aka Guest2
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PS I'm going on vacation. I'll be baaack!
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Hi everyone,
I feel as if my anger is not as bad as it was on that fateful night. Much due to being able to post here and be supported. Part of me feels like I don't deserve something so good.
This is actually unconditional and I am so not used to it! So I feel like I need it, but I also feel like I must be building up a big debt somewhere. Does anyone else feel like this? It is not logical but I can't shake it. This is why I keep trying to register and can't. I don't want anyone coming after me to pay back that debt!
I have been better with the kids and my husband is not as able to push my buttons. He is very curious what I am doing on the computer so much. I have been standing up to my mom and ignoring her. She is clearly a bit baffled by it. It feels wonderful.
Thank you.
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I don't want anyone coming after me to pay back that debt!
I don't think anyone here would come after you. So many people in my life have helped me in many ways and I knew I could never repay them. But I can use the help they gave me to help the new people in my life. I think the Amish have a saying about this. Also, when I was urged to take parenting classes or talk to a therapist, I, in my lack of self-esteem, took that to mean that I was deficient. Not so! I needed these classes or therapists to support me in going down the right path since I wasn't getting it from my husband or parents or in-laws. It's really hard to do it on your own. And, I think, there are two different types of help. One to support your own identity as a Mother and the other to rectify a troubled relationship with your husband. I think they are two separate issues. For myself, Ihave to say that I would err on improving my self-image as a mother. Your husband has his own options. He could follow your example or not. Your kids are always your kids. Husbands can be temporary. I have no advanced degrees and this is just advice from my own experience!
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Also, when I was urged to take parenting classes or talk to a therapist, I, in my lack of self-esteem, took that to mean that I was deficient.
I don't think that at all. Well in fact I did think it, and I was right when it came to parenting. I knew I needed more knowledge and modeling of good behavior, and I got it. But all the knowledge in the world is not going to help you. if you are spilling over with rage.
As far as therapy, I would like to get it. It just seems like such a big obstacle right now. I have so many things on my plate. Even coming on this board has resulted in my neglecting my housework and my kids. We are living in a sty, but it is worth it to me. Anyone in therapy knows that it takes some time to find the right person. I'm not up to telling my stopry again and again, or even just again, right now.
I like this place. I can talk and listen without going anyplace. Without paying. Without worrying what other messages are being sent and received by appearances, the sound of my voice, etc. Without it being a public thing perhaps, in my community or even with my husband. It is working for me now.
I had a new memory today. When I flew out of town as a 17 year old, to look at a potential new college, my plane was late. So I missed my shuttle. I didn't want to be late for my interview, so I took a taxi who promised to take me for the same rate. Once I was in the cab, the (huge) guy turned menacing and took me for a ride all over the city, to "sightsee", despite my protests. I was scared to death. Then he stopped in a huge deserted park in the middle of the city and got out a blanket, and made me sit on it. He pulled out a joint and made me smoke it. I refused but he was very menacing and I was all alone with him in a deserted place. Afterwards I was very disoriented and he kept trying to convince me to kiss him. I started to cry and he eventually took me where I was going. Thank God I did not get raped that time. He did make me give him all my money, so the whole weekend I had very little to eat. I never told anyone, even at the school where they tried to get me to say why I was 2 hours late.
Why did I have so many experiences like this? Was I putting out a signal saying, 'rape me' or something? I don't understand.
This suddenyl came back when I was listening to the radio and a story about 2 cops giving alcohol to 2 17 year old girls and taking them to a park came on.
I don't feel too plucky right now.
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Hi Plucky:
It sounds like you're feeling more confident in your ability to deal with stuff, with support here. I'm glad to hear that and to see you posting!
Why did I have so many experiences like this?
Sometimes, questions like this are unanswerable, if you ask me. Sometimes, stuff just happens, I think.
It is frustrating, though, to keep wondering why, why, why? And many of us do that because it seems the way to prevent a recurrance.
For me, the answer does not usually come....as far as an explanation as to why, but the answer does come...in the form of..... how.
How to prevent this again? What to do to protect myself from such people, as much as possible?
That must have been a terrifying experience for you! I felt....there with you..., just reading it. Creep! And you have never told anyone? You've been carrying that around all this time? Gee! It must be a relief to talk about it!
Do you think it might be necessary to do more than tell....to truly express how you felt/feel about that awful experience? I mean....would it help to punch something? Like a pillow or rip up paper or something? Did you express/release your feelings about it, near that time, or have you held them in, too, ever since?
Do you still worry that such things might happen to you again?
(((((((Plucky)))))))
I'm sorry that jerk did that to you! I'm glad he didn't rape you but it's the fear......instilled by such events....that is said to do the real damage. I don't know if that is true or not for you. Do you think fear might be there, underneath the anger, in this case?
For me......I need to feel safe, so I have taken steps to help myself feel safer in the world. Glad you are posting, Plucky.
GFN
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Hi GFN and others,
How to prevent this again? What to do to protect myself from such people, as much as possible?
I think finally I got it in my early 20s. My solution was a good offence. I realized that I was too nice. So I took steps to become harder, and became more careful about listening to my inner voice. Nowadays I am not terribly worried about having such a thing happen again. I am in touch with my rage, and I can let it out, if I need to.
However, now that you mention it....a similar thing happened in my 30s again. It really surprised me. I had a number of friends over for a long weekend. The last to leave was a guy we had all met at a ski trip. I had no inkling he was after me. Once everyone else was gone, he started to pressure me for phrsical contact. He was not accepting no for an answer. Finally I started to cry. He still did not let up. Somehow he finally gave up. I was very shaken after. I do feel some success because I was not raped. And I did tell mutual friends afterwards, and warned a female friend whom he had contacted and planned to visit. He kep calling me afterwards even though I asked him not to. I finally told him not to call be again or I would call the police, and he stopped. Afterwards he was very apologetic and said it was the result of a cultural difference (he was German).
Gee! It must be a relief to talk about it!
It is better than anything else in my life right now.
Did you express/release your feelings about it, near that time, or have you held them in, too, ever since?
My feelings at the time were that I had better keep it quiet. I think I felt like it was somehow my fault.
Do you still worry that such things might happen to you again?
I think that now, I would commit murder rather than let myself be victimized again. Also, I think that having an N parent, you ignore your thoughts because they do not jibe with what the parent is saying and you cannot divorce yourself from your only source of support. I am still regaining that inner voice.
Do you think fear might be there, underneath the anger, in this case?
Yes. And that fear is triggered sometimes by things that might be commonplace. Sometimes, back when my husband used to touch me, he would touch me or approach me in a way that made me panic. He did not want to understand why I reacted the way I did - he wanted me to hide my past and as a result I felt even more shameful about it, and angry with him for not supporting me and even making it worse.
For me......I need to feel safe, so I have taken steps to help myself feel safer in the world.
What steps? What do you mean? And why do you feel unsafe? Do you feel safe now, after the steps you have taken?
Plucky G2
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Hiya Plucky:
My solution was a good offence. I realized that I was too nice. So I took steps to become harder, and became more careful about listening to my inner voice.
Good for you! I did something similar. I'm not sure I would call myself "harder" but definately stronger, less vunerable etc.
That inner voice does warn us but we don't always listen. I'm better at it now. I'm glad you feel not terribly worried now too.
Gee! And that guy when you were in your 30's? Another goof!! Cultural difference my sweet patootootie!! I think there was more to it than that!
My feelings at the time were that I had better keep it quiet. I think I felt like it was somehow my fault.
Your fault! You should not have gotten into that cab! All cabs contain potential rapists!!
Does that sound loonie to you? I bet you don't still think it's your fault!
I feel angry and sickened by his disgusting behaviour toward you! And...for the feelings he induced in you!!! The confusing guilt! The fear! I'm so sorry this happened to you, Plucky.
I think that now, I would commit murder rather than let myself be victimized again.
I sure hope nothing even close to that ever happens. The good thing about rage is you can keep a little for a rainy day. Never, ever use more force than absolutely necessary to protect yourself though, or you could end up being raped by the system. Make 'em think you will....sometimes works.
he wanted me to hide my past and as a result I felt even more shameful about it, and angry with him for not supporting me and even making it worse.
You didn't do anything wrong Plucky. It was not your fault. Not a bit. Your husband may be afraid of his own feelings in regard to what happened to you and it is selfish of him to want you to hide anything, imo. I don't blame you for feeling angry with him for making it worse for you. I wonder if he realizes he has made it worse for you? Doesn't matter, I guess, it's done. He doesn't sound very empathetic.
For me......I need to feel safe, so I have taken steps to help myself feel safer in the world.
What steps? What do you mean? And why do you feel unsafe? Do you feel safe now, after the steps you have taken?
I feel a certain amount of fear of this kind of thing, as I'm sure others do, in general because there are people in the world who prey on others. I don't lose sleep about it, or anything like that, but it crosses my mind and it dictates, actually, certain choices I make.
For instance, I wouldn't walk alone on city streets at night, if I could help it, these days because I'm older and can't run as fast as I used to be able to. I used to like to walk my dog, at 11pm at night, when I lived in the city, years ago. My dog was a white sheppard who weighed alot more than I did and hated men (sorry guys....that's just the way she was. Some man must have been mean to her before I adopted her???). You couldn't miss her in the dark and you could hear her growling and snarling from quite a ways away. Not many people would probably tango with her, if it could be avoided. Not many had the guts to even walk by her. Most people crossed the street quick. I felt very safe with her by my side. I also thought/think it's shameful that I must arm myself with a ferocious dog, in order to enjoy a leisurely walk, on a nice summer night. But that's the way it is and so....I give the shame to those who deserve it....those who might try to harm me!
One of the steps I've taken is to always keep big, scary dogs. That might sound a bit paranoid and it might even be a bit paranoid but....I'm happy being a bit paranoid or sounding so, in that case, as long as I feel safer. And I do. Believe me....my dogs are well trained and smarter than me....so they will know....before my instincts kick in.....who to bite/eat/tear to shreds..depending on the person's resistence/lack of common sense/ability to run really fast!!! (heeheehee :D ). And I'll be running the other direction, as best I can, dialing on my cell. Ofcourse, my dogs are useless against guns.....but......it will be hard to shoot them and me at the same time, if...the gun is still available and not in my dog's mouth, along with the hand that's holding that gun! :evil:
I feel safe enough now. I drive to most places because I live in the country now. I usually take a dog with me. I have experience and confidence, under my belt and that helps. I have/would use anger to protect myself, if needed and I know a few self defense tricks. I don't take unnecessary risks, which I have done but have learned by doing so. I don't look like a victim, either. Eye contact says a lot and I don't show fear very easily, even if I'm feeling terrified (conscious choice). A lot of this came one step at a time, beginning a long time ago so it's reflex now.
... that fear is triggered sometimes by things that might be commonplace.
It's ok to react to that fear. If you feel it, there could be a logical reason or just a gut instinct. I ignor fear totally when I'm cornered but otherwise I pay attention and decide if it's realistic. Some fears are.
One rule I learned is:
Decide what your attacker wants and give him/her the exact opposite.
Not only does this stun them, quite often, but it confuses them all to heck, giving you time to get away.
This happened to me once, when I was sitting, reading a book, on a subway train (I've had so many agrivating experiences on subway trains!! :D ) Anyway, this guy gets on, and stands infront of me, holds onto the bar that hangs from the ceiling with one hand and opens his trench coat with the other....revealing.....rubber boots, hairy legs and nothing in the way of clothing elsewhere. I glanced up from my book and saw......but didn't make eye contact and thought: "What does this jerk want me to do?" (Probably go....oooooooo.......eeeeeee.....help!! right?)
So I closed my book, carefully put it in my bag, took my time, did up my jacket, picked up my purse, then.....looked him straight in the eye.....thinking: "Fix you!"....then I looked down to his....you know.....then back in the eye.....then......
I broke out laughing as loudly as I could! Speaking loudly and choking on my laughing: "Ha!!! Look at that guy!! I can't believe it!! Never seen anything that small in all my life!! Too halarious!! Tried to scare me with that thing!! No way in h**L! " etc., getting up, walking away, not looking back, all at the same time.
The guy turned purple and got off the train at the next stop. I had walked to the other end of the car, where there were plenty of people and sat beside some big burley looking fellow, who looked like he thought I was nuts.
My worry was that if I didn't do something drastic, this guy might follow me, when I got off the train. I didn't like that idea at all.
another good rule:
Never be afraid to make a big, loud, ridiculous scene!
People pay attention to those. You may look like an idiot but you'll be an alive looking idiot!! (much better than some other choice idiots!!)
:D
Hope you're ok Plucky. Sorry for this long one. Glad you're posting.
GFN
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hi GFN,
had to respond. :D
i just loved your post. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
that fellow on the train must have shrunk with :oops:
i noticed you didn't ask many or any questions either??? :cry: i have to say i missed those. 8)
keep up the god work - um - i mean good work
guest for now no:2
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Hi GFN#2:
Are you my clone?? Do you look like me, I can't tell? Where did you come up with such a fancy name?
(all kidding ofcourse... :D :D :D ).
Yes....I was lucky to find a way to embarass a person (the guy on the subway train) who seemingly usually suffers little embarassment ( :roll: ). I mean, one would have to feel very little embarassment, I think, in order to go around exposing their most private parts to complete strangers......or.....maybe they get high on embarassment (highly doubtful.......more likely it's the shock, fear, etc they see in the faces of those they expose themselves to...that power.... that gives them the high, I bet). Anyway.....ya....purple is a real cool colour to see on people like that. I do feel a great fear of such a person though because it's always a risk to act and chance some wild reaction from them, or their rage!!
re: questions: I didn't have many to ask ......brain recovering from sun beating on it on Sunday.
Thanks for your kind words. I don't know if I'd call it work. Just my way of communicating sometimes.
I do have one for you Plucky, if you feel like answering. If not, not to worry.
So I took steps to become harder....
What steps did you take? This might help others.
GFN
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What steps did you take? This might help others.
GFN
I selected the hardest thing for me to do, and just plunged into it. I was shy. I had a soft voice. I was quiet. I could not stand rejection. Yes, in a word, I was voiceless.
I got a job at 100% commission cold call selling over the phone. In a shop where most of them were macho guys. This was about the most uncomfortable thing I could have done. It was sink or swim.
In order to live I had to abandon my innocence and softness and develop some shrewdness. My skin got thicker. I had to to overcome the desires of the person at the other end of the line to hang up and not purchase it, in order to achieve my goal of selling it. I was not great. But I did ok. One day I stayed on the phone with one person for an hour. It was so hard I was crying and I was sweating and bleeding. But I made the sale. Everyone in the shop could see that I was crying. But I really needed the money.
After that I thought I would be embarassed. But everyone saw me with new respect. I had pushed through my feelings and gotten the sale. That was a turning point.
Having said this, I am not sure this can be applied by everyone! But throwing myself into cold deep water like that definitely made me focus and develop some skills quickly. I did not have time to wallow in it. I did not have the luxury of reflection.
Hope this helps someone!
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Hi GFN#2:
Are you my clone?? Do you look like me, I can't tell? Where did you come up with such a fancy name?
(all kidding ofcourse... :D :D :D ).
Yes....I was lucky to find a way to embarass a person (the guy on the subway train) who seemingly usually suffers little embarassment ( :roll: ). I mean, one would have to feel very little embarassment, I think, in order to go around exposing their most private parts to complete strangers......or.....maybe they get high on embarassment (highly doubtful.......more likely it's the shock, fear, etc they see in the faces of those they expose themselves to...that power.... that gives them the high, I bet). Anyway.....ya....purple is a real cool colour to see on people like that. I do feel a great fear of such a person though because it's always a risk to act and chance some wild reaction from them, or their rage!!
re: questions: I didn't have many to ask ......brain recovering from sun beating on it on Sunday.
Thanks for your kind words. I don't know if I'd call it work. Just my way of communicating sometimes.
I do have one for you Plucky, if you feel like answering. If not, not to worry.
So I took steps to become harder....
What steps did you take? This might help others.
GFN
Hi GFN,
No I'm not your clone, or some creepy cyber nut. But I can relate and I do relate to your style here. And ahve been helped by your posts greatly. I hope that's okay. I've thought about it and it's because I 'get' your genuine warmth and sincerity from the types and detail of questions you ask, and from the suggestions you make. Others ahve commented the opposite. I know that. But I think you do take the time to read and you don't just jump to conclusions and tell people what to do. Whether or not your suggestions are accepted, or if your questions are seen as invasive doesn't register with me. I can see your detail and the thought you put into it. Listening is a rare commodity nowdays, and it is half of civilisations problem. That is that no-one bothers or takes the time to listen anymore. Just ask our young people. And this is what I think you do very well , you listen (read) intently. And I think that makes you a rare and very special commodity. Especially here in the voicelessness community where (pardon me for being blunt - no offence intended) we have our fair share of 'know-alls' who are intolerant and just post short 'telling and talking down to us' stuff. Balance that with the so many of us here shouting that they we were never ever listened to, and hence never developed a voice. That's why I have been and am such a staunch supporter of you and your style. And I don't apologize for that. I hope that explains a bit and removes any possible creepiness. Changed my name to GIFT :D
Guest in for Today
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Hi today:
Plucky wrote:
I selected the hardest thing for me to do, and just plunged into it.
That took great courage!! Wow!! You are definately my heroine for that!!
...throwing myself into cold deep water like that definitely made me focus and develop some skills quickly.
They say if one falls off a horse, the best thing to do is to get right back on it.
You did that...you got back on the horse....went out into the world....ignored your fear and frustration....set a goal....and tried your darndest to achieve it (and did get there, by the sounds of it)!!
Way to go Plucky! I'm so glad you did that! That had to help! Do you think it might be possible, though, that you skipped mourning a great loss? What I mean is....the mourning of your safe feelings....your security...that was dashed/stolen/trampled on by the awful events that created the fear and other feelings?
I'm just wondering because you say you feel such anger and even rage and that has to have a source. Maybe the source is partly buried by your great and admirable effort to just get strong and go on! That was admirable and very brave! But maybe there is still some grieving to do and because it's not been done, it's brewed into/metamorphed into anger?
Or maybe the anger from those awful experiences was never released either? And both grief and anger are cooking up a big storm?
Just my thoughts. I could be completely off my rocker. Wouldn't be the first time (heehee :D ).
Plucky I think you are a very open, inspiring person. Thankyou for sharing that story about the telemarketing! I bet it will help someone else!
Hey Gift!
That was some gift you gave me! :oops: :oops: I do feel embarassed by such great compliments (and I do appreciate and thank you hugely for your great kindness and generosity too).
I have a hard time internalizing such a gift. I could argue every point you made, probably with good examples, in my own head, and dispute with accuracy, every nice thing you said about me. I think it might be because I was criticised sooo much, as a child, and by my first husband, and rarely complimented (thus did not learn how to accept compliments graciously). Still learning that. Criticism, although somewhat painful to experience too, seems easier for me to consider and accept.
Thankyou sincerely Gift. Such gifts are indeed rare.
...have been helped by your posts greatly. I hope that's okay.
I'm so glad to have been a help, in any way. I hope you're feeling ok or better than that!
Thanks for the hug. You too ((((((Gift))))))
GFN
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PS Gift:
Did I imagine a hug or are you the same person:
Guest for Today, in the "anything" thread.
If you're not....thanks for the imaginary hug that I felt reading your kind words. :D
GFN
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Question:
Do you think it might be possible, though, that you skipped mourning a great loss?
I'm just wondering because you say you feel such anger and even rage and that has to have a source. Maybe the source is partly buried by your great and admirable effort to just get strong and go on! ...maybe there is still some grieving to do and because it's not been done, it's brewed into/metamorphed into anger?
Or maybe the anger from those awful experiences was never released either? And both grief and anger are cooking up a big storm
?
Answer: yes, yes, and yes. You are very perceptive. Your comments are so spot on. I finally have a name and description for what I went through. For me that is important and the key to unwinding the tourniquet. (Why did that metaphor suddenly crop up? Hmmmm, I'll follow this....) I guess I kind of amputated the wounded limb as I could not tell why it was injured and it couldn't heal it alone. Then I wound something tightly around it and marched on.
But, eventually that bloody pain came back and busted through the painkillers I had been slathering on it!
[(Barf) This is really bad writing. English teachers out there, skip on to the next post.]
Thanks to this board, I am able to really start healing. I should be ready for a prosthesis any day now.
BTW I ended up on this board really looking for a marriage problems board! I had no idea what NPD was but from the first thing I read, it was clear I belonged here. I do have a guardian angel, apparently.
Feeling more and more
Plucky
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Hello Plucky:
After a limb is amputated, there is often something that occurs called: Phantum Pain.
It's a pain the person imagines is coming from the limb that is gone, the limb that has been amputated. This pain feels very real for the person who has lost a limb....so real.....it's a very odd thing. There is no limb, yet the person feels pain from it. Very strange indeed. Phantum pain is actually caused by the nerve endings, where they have been cut from the removed limb. The impression is that the limb is paining, but the realitiy is the nerves are sending weird signals to the brain.
It's possible, your pain is a bit like phantum pain, in that ..the cause...seems to be a horrible event....the rape.... which is like the missing limb....it's gone.....it's over......yet there still seems to be pain? It's very confusing. You faced your fears and yet the pain continues. You looked and saw that the limb is gone, but the pain is still there.
It is also possible that the messages your mother was giving you, as per the "Are you pretty" thread, the messages that devalued you, caused you to feel unworthy, unlovable, deserving of being treated badly.....all of that is like the nerve endings....sending the weird signals to the brain.....telling it a false message.....trying to make it think the limb is still there....the message that this is all because of the rape......when the actual cause of the pain....originates in those sneaky little nerve endings.....those messages from your mother from long ago.
Does that make any sence?
So what to do then? The limb is gone and yes, a prosthesis is a great idea.....it will help make you feel whole again, get you up and moving, but those darn nerve endings won't quit giving you pain unless you deal with them. How?
By thickening up the skin covering the stump where the limb was removed from (some of the nerve endings causing pain are in the skin, so if the skin gets thicker, it will lessen the discomfort by protecting the nerve endings some).
How again?
By putting specific and increasing pressure on that stump end, until the skin toughens up.
In the case of your mother's messages, this means crawling around on them for awhile, putting pressure on them, staanding on them, (to find their true meaning...not the one your mother intended...but the underlying N reasons for saying such things..and more so...the effect of her words on you), a little at a time, and soon the skin will be thick enough for a new prosthesis to be worn for short periods, then longer and longer.
Answer: yes, yes, and yes. You are very perceptive. Your comments are so spot on.
Thanks Plucky. I'm just guessing a lot of the time. Sometimes it makes sense to people, other times, not. Thankyou, though, for the compliment and I'm glad stuff is making sense to you. If it helps....that's all that matters.
I don't like to think of you feeling this deep rage, bubbling inside, being contained.....for a lifetime....or until it explodes! That doesn't sound good for you, for your marriage, or especially for your children.
So toughen up that skin on that missing limb, Plucky. It will hurt to really put pressure on the past and see what awful, harmful, painful messages were given to you but it will also make everything clearer, the twisted messages, the lies, which can then be disposed of by you.
Squash those messages, one by one, walk on them, step on them, stand on them.....they are all lies. You are a lovable person who deserves love, respect, kindness, caring and you are worthy of those things....you deserve them. Kill the phantum messages from the nerve endings and the phantum pain will disappear, squash the twisted messages and make new tapes. This may really help you, is my best bet.
Thanks to this board, I am able to really start healing. I should be ready for a prosthesis any day now.
That's a good attitude! Good for you Plucky! :D
GFN
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I don't like to think of you feeling this deep rage, bubbling inside, being contained.....for a lifetime....or until it explodes! That doesn't sound good for you, for your marriage, or especially for your children.
Um, have you read my first post? It has already happened. That is what made me reach out and find this board and begin to shart the healing process in earnest, instead of the band-aiding process that had broken down.
Thank you for your analysis, for reading all my stuff, for taking the time to think about it, for cheering me on. I am not sure what I would have done without being able to come here and read and understand all the bizarre behavior that I have just accepted over the years.
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Hi again Plucky:
Yes, I did read your first post and I guess I thought there might be more of those similar feelings waiting to be released. Only you will know if that is or isn't so for you. I'm glad it's helping you to understand stuff. It's helping me too.
Glad to read, give my thoughts and ideas anytime! Thankyou for appreciating that!
Still cheering you on! :D
GFN
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Yes, I did read your first post and I guess I thought there might be more of those similar feelings waiting to be released.
Good point. I do not know what is on the horizon. But I think the tide has shifted. The anger was building up because it has been held back and denied. I was sooooooo angry without properly understanding why. I knew what made me angry, but not the whole framework of the situation I was brought up in and all the subsequent events caused by the way I was brainwashed. I felt so out of control and struggled to control everything in my life that I could. Yes, I was/am not always an easy person to be close to.
Now I just feel such a sense of relief. I can weed out the craziness from the normality. I can disregard and discard the craziness and not let it determine what I do in future. I can stop looking for explanations that have to do with something being wrong with me, as a child and young adult. Yes, there are lots of things wrong with me now, but I can work on them. They are not some mysterious thing that I don't know and will never undertand that make me deserve to be treated as invisible, or ugly inside, or forever wicked.
I do feel a profound sense of sadness and I am physically exhausted, although as I mentioned somewhere I have decreased my activity lately. I feel tired to the bone.
I once had this feeling on a spa week. All week I was tired to the bone as my tension and toxins were worked out through massage and exercise. I guess this is the same thing, and I am just going to allow it (new for me) and allow myself the time to rest up and rejuvenate.
I feel as if I have been dragging a two tonne whale behind me, and stopping at intervals to give it mouth to mouth. It feels so good to let it go.
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Plucky, I could have written this post. I identify with your description of the "mysterious thing" that is causing all the problems. I used to think the same thing, that I was somehow "invisibly poisonous" to relationships. I finally woke up and realized that I wasn't poisonous, I was choosing to be around people who were VISIBLY poisonous and tolerating their behavior. It was my pent up rage coming out that finally forced me to start confronting things instead of running away emotionally. Anger will take control if it is not confronted.
I am still adjusting to moving out from my wife, but it is a good adjustment. Sometimes difficult, but so far every single day gets better than the previous one. I know that has to level off sometime, but life is better than I imagined it could be for me. It drives home that there wasn't ever anything inherently wrong with me, I was just making certain choices and suffering the poor consequences. I've changed my choices and get to enjoy the good consequences now.
If you've been dragging a whale all your life, then walking upright is going to feel strange and unusual. At least until you get used to it. :) I can just picture the whale's sides puffing out as you give it mouth to mouth. :D You are making great progress and doing a LOT of work, even if you can't see it. Continue to take care of yourself and get enough rest. You talk about releasing the toxins. I have the image of a splinter working its way to the surface. Its a relief when it is finally out, but there is still some redness and swelling that takes a few days to go away.
Keep up the good work!
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It drives home that there wasn't ever anything inherently wrong with me, I was just making certain choices and suffering the poor consequences. I've changed my choices and get to enjoy the good consequences now.
It's amazing how difficult it is to uproot that bad message. I'm glad your daily experience is so validating. Thank you for your input.
I did backslide today. My husband is at a business dinner which starts at 6, he said, and he said, the restaurant is really slow, and he can't remember the name of it. I just ignored him, but then I was snapping at the kids. I think I will have to move my plan to get out up a notch! At 9 he was not back. Hmmmmm......
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Longtire:
so far every single day gets better than the previous one.
I'm sooo glad to hear this! It can been seen in your posts too. They are getting more and more like materpieces!! You're walking at a good pace now! I knew you could do it! Good for you!!
I think I will have to move my plan to get out up a notch!
Hi Plucky. Sorry if you've answered this elsewhere, I must have missed it. Do you mean "out" as in going out, finding your own interests/activities to enjoy, or "out" as in leaving for good? Only if you feel comfy answering, ofcourse.
GFN
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It drives home that there wasn't ever anything inherently wrong with me, I was just making certain choices and suffering the poor consequences. I've changed my choices and get to enjoy the good consequences now.
It's amazing how difficult it is to uproot that bad message.
It's a weed with deep roots. Keep putting pressure on it and one of these days (when you least expect it) it will !POP! out of the ground. I keep finding little offshoots left behind, but now that the main root is pulled, they are easy to pull out too. :)
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Hi Plucky. Sorry if you've answered this elsewhere, I must have missed it. Do you mean "out" as in going out, finding your own interests/activities to enjoy, or "out" as in leaving for good? Only if you feel comfy answering, of course.
I mean out as in FREE! My H will not go for counseling, we did once and just used his passive aggressive means to torpedo it. Now we no longer have the money. I will have to get a job, as he has sabotaged my work to get tenants in our rental property and now we are in dire straits. He claims to support my being home with the kids, but then he will not stop his spending, or agree to do simple things like take a lunch to work. (He eats alone at his desk, he says, so what would he be giving up?)
I feel like he has made my feelings about my past worse by acting as if it all a shameful secret that he does not want to know about. He has made it clear that he does not want to really know me or hear my voice, saying things like "I wsh you would just shut up" and "I like 60% of you but the rest I wish would just disappear". I am to the point where I don't care what he does, as long as he does not spend money on it or bring anything home.
I think my H has a lot of anger inside too, but has a lot of self control and a much bigger motivation to keep it all in. He triggers my anger as a way to sublimate what he cannot express. I an not going to stay here and be his anger puppet. I'm tired of being angry, irritated, on the verge of losing control. I feel so much better now that I have started to plan. Also, I see how my children could benefit. Before, I only saw the hurt they would experience and that stopped me.
I am reading here all the issues people have wth malignant exes and want to really have my ducks lined up. I only want enough money from him to make sure I can take care of the kids. I also want to make sure I can keep the kids. He still tries to make me explode, perhaps so he can get ammunition to take them away, although I am sure he cannot look after them!
I know he will resist, at least he has in the past. He started cutting himself the last time I talked about breaking up. I am not going ot let that stop me this time.
Ok. Thanks for letting me empty my sack here.
Feeling somewhat less but still
Plucky
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No problem Plucky:
It's good to keep emptying that sack here. Gotta help a little. You've got a lot to deal with. Big changes. Lot's of losses too. And the hurts your husband has added...to recover from. And your children to care for. That's a big load!
I'm glad you are planning. It's a good thing that will help you get through it. Tough when finances are a problem.
I guess the first step is to find a job. Best of luck to you in that! I will pray that something you'll be pleased with comes along for you.
Keep venting here if you need to. All of this would be frustrating for me, I think. I might be writing nasty letters and ripping them up, in order to get my feelings out and not cause further ruckus. Would this help you I wonder?
His threats of self harm, if they appear, are just a ploy. I'm glad you aren't going to allow them to stop your plans.
You don't have to talk about those plans yet either, right? You can plan and plan and think and vent and write and do whatever you need to...to help yourself along. He can eat his lunch where ever he wants.
I know it hurts though. Some committment eh? Doesn't like 40% of you eh? What percentage of him do you like? Sorry Plucky, for the pain of that. Maybe you can think of him as ....a temporary house mate?
Would that help? Pay little interest in what he's doing, really, and focus on your kids and your plans for awhile? Maybe you're all ready trying to do that.
Another big hug (((((((Plucky))))))).
'cause I feel your hurt. :( :( :(
GFN
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Another big hug (((((((Plucky))))))).
'cause I feel your hurt.
GFN
Thank you. I'll keep trying to dig this splinter, more like a tumor, out. I want it out! by posting here. Thank you GFN.
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Otay!
My unperceptive husband has finally noticed that I am acting more distant. He said he does not understand why I totally hate him now.
I said that I had given up all hope for the relationship. The ride begins. I had already asked for a separation but I guess he didn't notice that. I asked for a month where we were all scheduled to go visit his parents. I said, why don't you go alone? I need some time to think.
Of course since I suggested it, he was against it. So now we are negotiating. It is challenging, since he never seems to hear much of what I say.
He also said that it would only be fair to the two of us if each of us got one child! Oh God, is this what I'm in for? I told him that it was not about what was "fair" to US, it was about the kids and would it be good for them to lose a parent and a sibling too? Not to mention that he works full time and travels frequently - who is going to be looking after them? And he can't even stand them for more than a few hours! Then he either starts shouting or puts them on a video.
So my planning stage was short. I will just have to roll with the punches. And he is going to be nasty, I know it.
I think he just wants the child as company and a validation that he has someone. Please don't let this process hurt my children!
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((((Plucky)))))
The man is surprised? He really doesn't pay attention does he?
Please know that I'll be behind you with whatever you need to do!!
My ex wanted to only have "one child at a time", so although what your ex said is out of control IDIOTIC, I have heard it before. At least my ex wanted to see both kids! Anytime you can show he is behaving in HIS best interest and not the kids (that comment is blatently so!) then good for you.
Actually, if this is how ridiculous your ex is, then you may have an easier time of it than you think. Just document this comment and everything. Really would have helped me, I think!!!
Hang in there, sister. Sending you strength.
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I just posted a new topic. Not sure what to do now. I guess I have to be strong and hold it all together. At least I have practice. Thanks for helping me.