Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: zeene on June 11, 2005, 08:51:39 PM
-
A few years ago I had a nervous breakdown and ended up in the mental ward of a big hospital. The psychiatrist was trying to diagnose me with some kind of mental disorder. After my interview with him he called my N mother in to ask her some questions.
I found out that she had said that when I was younger I used to "make up stories". This is not true. A complete lie. She was trying to make out that I was a schizophrenic or something. She is a B**** (sorry about the swearing)
I would like to get a copy of my file to see what else she has said about me that isn't true.
Anyone else had a similar experience? or like to add to this?
Cheers
Zeene
-
Howdy zeene,
I had a similar experience with my exN. He told so many lies about me but I had to wonder what people thought about him when we would get back together time after time. If someone was to tell me that their significant other was blah blah blah, then they got back with them, I would wonder what the flipn hell was wrong with them.
The only thing I can say that might make you feel better about this is that if that psychiatrist was worth the paper his M.D. was written on, he or she would have seen right through your mum. I have worked with many psychiatrist in my nursing days that I tend to wonder about some of them. However, I have also been witness to interviews with parents and the comments from the psychiatrist after the parents leave.
I'm not so sure I would want to know what else my mum said if I were you. I would venture to guess that she pulled every N trick in the book so she could do the projection dealio and also wiggle her way out of any responsibility for your mental fragile state.
I don't understand how N's minds work but I sure the heck understand how they can crack a persons psychi. Constant mind games is enough to drive anyone to the brink. Tisk tisk, some people should never be blessed with children.
-
this poem:
‘I knew it…’
Interminable demanding wears me down,
I cannot call my mind my own.
Never mind, I’m trying hard as I’m able.
When I crack you can comfort yourself with that frown,
Posture: ‘yes, she was always unstable…’
***
I think there is a touch of the 'Munchausen by proxy' in a lot of ns- they get narcissitic attention from discussing their family members and feeling superior and in control.
-
I think there is a touch of the 'Munchausen by proxy' in a lot of ns- they get narcissitic attention from discussing their family members and feeling superior and in control.
I agree. My Nmum talks about me all the time with other people, but never with me. I get coded messages back, such as 'your mother thinks the world of you' and 'your mother is very concerned about you, and would do anything for you'. Usually from women relations, but also from dad.
Generally I respond with a wry smile. Then I describe the actual behaviour that Nmum uses, and ask whether in their view this amounts to what they experienced with their own mother or how they bahave with their daughter. Generally they see the point for a minute or two, then the denial clouds over the sun again, and they say the same things again. A mother who does not love her daughter is just too hard for them to see.
-
A few years ago I had a nervous breakdown and ended up in the mental ward of a big hospital. The psychiatrist was trying to diagnose me with some kind of mental disorder. After my interview with him he called my N mother in to ask her some questions.
I found out that she had said that when I was younger I used to "make up stories". This is not true. A complete lie. She was trying to make out that I was a schizophrenic or something. She is a B**** (sorry about the swearing)
Anyone else had a similar experience? or like to add to this?
Cheers
Zeene
Almost verbatim, except no hospitalization when I had a nervous breakdown in '77. She still tries to pin some diagnostic gobblydigook on me. When I got serious about therapy in 1988 my Nmother made sure she told my h that, "I had a great imagination. So don't believe anything she tells you."
Her newest diagnosis, "Maybe you're bipolar?" That was her response when I asked her about something she did.
Several times she 'suggested' I see a psychiatrist. The insinuation, "you must be crazy. No one else in the family has problems like you!"
-
hi zeene :}...... i was committed for a year when I was 16, becuase i ran away from home..
my father - the N - drank excessively and beat me up a lot as a teenager.. there was physical, verbal, emotional abuse and sexually inappropriate behavior.... finally i ran away from home.. he caught me and committed me for a year.
the only thing i was 'crazy' with was wanting to get away from my crazy family... :} but my father the N was -chief of staff- of the mental hospital i was in.
therefore, all of my 'doctors' were his subordinates.
he controlled every aspect of my 'psychiatric treatment' for a year.
therefore, he told them anything he wanted about me, and they alllll believed him...... to this day, it evokes a terror and an anger in me that is difficult to describe.
to this day the thought of people (especially him) telling others lies about me, and them believing it, (which he does constantly) evokes feelings that are almost uncontrollable. especially combined with the dreaded 'mental illness' label which is so powerful to discount and disqualify someones entire reality....... its very frightening.. to me anyway........
its terrifying, and its infuriating. maybe you didnt feel as powerless as an adult having her lie about you, maybe you did..... i know when i was a kid, i felt very very powerless about it. and i hated it. even now as an adult, it makes me very very uncomfortable.
d's mom
-
My mother accused me when I was 11 years old of buying, on credit, an item less that $10.00. I never did it. However, my father after listening to my mother's account, dragged me down to the store to apologize. My mother did this because she couldn't stop spending money that we did not have. The legacy of this is that I am painfully honest. I always have to need proof of what I have done. I always suspect that people think I am not honest. I also wish my mother had never been born but I am glad I am here....Catch 22????? It's time to break the cycle and I am doing it. :)
-
My ex and I were in court on Monday. He is taking me to court for more contact with our son (8 weeks old now) and to change our son's surname from mine to my ex's. He has told many lies about me, the weirdest one that he told my solicitor was that I am going to get married again and get my new husband to adopt my son and rename him by my new husbands name. The weird thing about that? .... I don't have a boyfriend and have not even got any male friends! The thing that scares me about the way these people lie is that they start to believe it. After a while, my ex is no longer lying - he is quoting what he now sees as Gospel truth. That is what is so weird. I think he could take a lie detector test and pass it now because he honestly believes his own bullsh*t.Scary.
-
dear the truth is in me
yes, your N sounds similar to my evil one.
When I was growing up she'd say these lies. Don't know where she got this stuff from or why she said it...it beats me how she could be so evil to her own little daughter.
"No one will believe anything you ever say again"
"You're mad!"
"You've got a vivid imagination"
"you tell lies"
You see I had a habit of saying the truth and could see through her lies.... and she accused me of all this. She's a B****.
lol
Zeene
-
My abuser told several lies about me that were believed by family, friends and even the authorities. My child was taken away from me as a result.
I still feel the agony of that experience and more than rage....deep despair. This person is so convincing....lies so much and believes it all.
It's hard to write this. :cry:
Sela
-
Sela,
My abuser told several lies about me that were believed by family, friends and even the authorities. My child was taken away from me as a result.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. How old was your child at the time? How long were you separated? (Only if you want to talk about it) This is so evil that it is beyond my belief.
It is amazing to me how these people can lie with such conviction and ease and with such total disregard for how it will affect others.
((((((Sela))))))))))
Brigid
-
My abuser told several lies about me that were believed by family, friends and even the authorities. My child was taken away from me as a result.
oh sela...... i know you used to be gfn correct? i did not know this had also happened to you...!!! im so sorry. :( :( :( i do hope you did get your child back??..... you know they told everyone horrible lies about my parenting. it was horribly insulting and painful. there are few things worse to be accused of in this society than being an incompetent or uncaring mother. so sorry :(
d's mom
-
What damage our Ns pathological lying and confabulation causes us!!! I totally relate. I'm bipolar and see a shrink, take meds and have been hospitalized for both depression and mania. The biggest hook for me with my ex N was the fact he told me early on" I have depression, I take meds, I know how it scews up jobs, marriages, friends etc". He knew I've always had a hard time finding a decent man who not only understands- or is willing to go down that road-, respects and is capable of giving me the support I need. He had absolutely no problems with any of it. Right!!! All he did was use any of my intimate disclosures as wespons against me. He';s told most of my friends- including new ones- I'm completely psychotic...ALL my friends and family agree and think I should be hospitalized..clearly only a crazy person would "accuse" him of lying, stealing, having other women, spending all day with satisfying his sex addiction, ripping me of financially etc etc. He treated me like shit as soon as I started to get depressed- " get your shit together...what about me in this relationship..don't you have any idea how unfair this is to me?". I had a toxic reaction to one of my meds and was in and out of hospital for 2 weeks and lost 20 lbs- I'm thin on a good day! He looked at me with open disgust and told me I had the sex appeal of a 10 year old boy and he couldn't even think about touching me until I gained weight. All of a sudden I was even farther removed from his perferred porn gals with large breasts- how dare I do that to him eh?! I was desperate one day for some Gravol and had none and couldn't walk to the drug store. He had an appt.- allegedly- with his shrink- a 45 minute comute max. one way. He promised he'd come right home with the Gravol. He called me 2 hours after the alleged appt. and told me the ferry was late. I didn't hear from him or see him till he sailed in 4 hours later- without the Gravol of course. His lies about what had happened to him were unbelievable and easily proved as lies- can't win that game with ns!. What he was really doing was psending 5-6 hours out of the house doing his sex addiction thing. How inconsiderate of me for being sick and didn't I realize he needed time out as a reward for having been stuck with me 24/7 while I was sick? He absolutely delighted in driving me crazy. I had to kick him out onto the street- poor baby- without a place to go, no money or food. My shrink was so worried I was heading into a major depression where I likely would have ended up in hospital. Growing up my N mother used to call behaviour related to my biplor illness- undiagnosed at the time- shit disturbing and I was physcially punished every time- for isolating, not eating and losing weight, skipping school and going from A's to failing, crying all the tiem, talking about dying, getting energized, not concentrating, being a huge and dangerous risk taker etc etc. Ns relish the crazy making and even if you're the most well adjusted person before you get i nvolved with Ns, they will make you crazy- guarantee. Gut wrenching to read other's stories and the pain and damage caused. Healing and strength to all!!
-
Thankyou Brigid for your kind words. My child was 10 and she told lies too because she "wanted to try living with her dad to see what it was like". She said some very disturbing things around that time. That was 3 years ago and I gave custody to her father because I was afraid she would be put in a foster home (which was being threatened) and because I decided it was better than having custody taken away from me. She was diagnosed a year before that with a mental disorder and I was terrified that no one but her own parents would have the patience needed to raise her. She has since "changed her mind" about a lot of things, one being telling lies. I'm very glad of that. She still lives with her dad but we visit often so that's another good thing.
...how these people can lie with such conviction and ease and with such total disregard for how it will affect others.
The person who did this... did it with the intention of destroying my life, as it was, and succeeded quite nicely. You are right though...it is evil beyond belief the way it all went down. It's actually easy to do, if you have good acting skills and a mouth the size of lake Ontario.
Thankyou too Anna. Yes I was GFN. I was made out to be horrible parent but lucky for me, I am meticulous about keeping records and because of my child's diagnosis, the previous year, I had been doing that and was able to prove some stuff false because I had made notes on certain dates in detail. I think that helped and it was just a fluke because normally I don't keep records of what goes on in my home. No one, except myself and the psychiatrist knew of her diagnosis because I didn't want her labelled and I was hopeful that by doing some behavioural stuff and therapy, she would improve. Instead, she rebelled against the whole shameal and decided it would be better living with her dad. But the adult involved...took the opportunity to embelish, add lies, and spread all kinds of stuff about me to my family, ex-family, some friends and ofcourse, last but not least, the authorities.
They tried to disprove my child's diagnosis too, which backfired because the doc they hired, who had no knowledge of the previous one's opinion, came up with the same diagnosis.
The good thing is....the relationship I have with my child now is still very close and possibly closer than before all of this. My abuser was unable to turn my child against me, even though she was regularly told she "should hate" me. The attempts to discredit me continue, none the less. And my daughter suffers as a result.
I've said some things against my ex-husband, on this board, but I have to also say that he has stood by me through out this and I would never have dreamed he would. He called right away and said: "I'm so sorry this has happened and I will do anything I can to help you", which was just about the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me. He has his faults but he can tell the difference between the truth and bs and we did spend 17 years together, so he knows me well. He also knows my abuser well. It was another thing, no one anticipated, that we would fight these accusations as a team (imagine two divorced people doing that?). We went to a different court, before this case of false accusations was heard, and changed custody, on our own. There was nothing they could do about it. There were no allegations against him. I think we ticked some of the people in the "system" off by doing that. Toooooooooo bad.
I feel ashamed even though I know I didn't do those things that were said. I think that some people did believe it. I ended relationships with a whole group of people, who I was friends with, because my abuser had infiltrated the group and was now a part of it (still is).
One of my closest friends, who was my maid of honour, at my wedding, passed away shortly after this began. I went to her funeral and sat in the back by myself, while my abuser was planted in the center of the group of my ex-friends. Afterward, some of them chased me down as I tried to make a quick exit and I couldn't even talk. I was polite but I left as quickly as I could. I don't want to go to any more of my ex-friends funerals, if I can't go to their lives, and I don't want to go to their lives because my abuser is there, continuing to spread crap, and I feel ashamed of the whole mess. I will never know who believes what and who wants to know what for whom, or who will turn against me.
In a way, I have lost trust in a great many things, including friendship but then I tell myself...I have only lost trust in those particular friendships and certain things. I also told myself that anyone who was my friend would stand beside me 100% and support me and anyone who didn't, I didn't need in my life....anyway. I found out exactly who those supportive people are and there aren't many of them. Another loss/lesson I learned but at least I know who I can trust now.
To use Moira's words: the thing is "gut wrenching". That about says it. I feel sick thinking about it all and I know what people mean when they say they relive stuff because I relive it and relive it and relive it and haven't stopped doing that yet. Soon I will though. Sooon!!
Sela
-
Sorry for highjacking your thread Zeene.
Sela
-
dear the truth is in me
You see I had a habit of saying the truth and could see through her lies.... and she accused me of all this. She's a B****.
lol
Zeene
Hello Zeene,
Yes, I could do the same thing and the more I did it, the more angry and destructive towards me she became.
-
Hi Sela,
So sorry about the abuse you have endured, but also proud that you were smart enough to protect yourself and your daughter, and also glad that your ex is a good enough man to protect her too.
The person who did this... did it with the intention of destroying my life, as it was, and succeeded quite nicely. You are right though...it is evil beyond belief the way it all went down. It's actually easy to do, if you have good acting skills and a mouth the size of lake Ontario.
It is amazing how easy it is, isn't it? What defect is in people's character that the most outrageous lie about someone they have known for years can be swallowed whole without a shred of evidence?
Being on the receiving end of the warfare of an N gives a person a whole new perspective on the reliability of 'friends' and 'family' when it counts.
The few people who stand by us, while the bullets are flying are truly our friends and family. All the rest, who join in the abuse or duck and run or try to play both sides of the street will someday answer for their moral cowardice.
I will never know who believes what and who wants to know what for whom, or who will turn against me.
For me this is the worst part, and is unrepairable. I have no idea when talking to someone how much of what has been said about me they believe.
Ostracization is a very damaging weapon. How do you fight it? I don't think you can. I guess you just have to write them off, and concentrate on the few decent people who remain.
((((((((((((Sela)))))))))))))
mudpup
-
A few years ago I had a nervous breakdown and ended up in the mental ward of a big hospital. The psychiatrist was trying to diagnose me with some kind of mental disorder. After my interview with him he called my N mother in to ask her some questions.
I found out that she had said that when I was younger I used to "make up stories". This is not true. A complete lie. She was trying to make out that I was a schizophrenic or something. She is a B**** (sorry about the swearing)
This sounds like a terrible accusation to start with, but then if you stop and think it is a crazymaking accusation.
Any normal, healthy parent would be proud to have a creative child; one with a rich fantasy life, who is able to lose herself in play and create her own fantasy world, woven around dolls or scenes from life. This is a highly commendable way for any child to be, and it is not the same as if an adult did it.
All children should make up stories, it is part of growing up and it is part of roleplaying. If you get a parent who cannot accommodate this, and tries to suppress the natural play instinct in a child (because she cannot stand the competition), and even complains to a doctor about it, that says a lot more about the parent than the child, imo. It might even explain why that child went on to have a nervous breakdown later in life.
-
Thankyou Muddy. I guess you can probably guess now why I could relate to your situation so well.
What defect is in people's character that the most outrageous lie about someone they have known for years can be swallowed whole without a shred of evidence?
Sometimes I think this is a defect in me because I picked the wrong friends.....or did I? How does one know how to pick people that will not fall for such outrageous lies? What are the chances of such a thing happening in one's life? Who even thinks of it?
I thought those people were my friends. They knew me for over 10 years and we spent lot's of time together individually and as a group, with our families together in activities..we even camped together. Is it cowardice to believe gossip? I don't know. I've always had a bit of an aversion to it and I try really hard to judge people for myself but maybe I'm dense. Maybe it's smarter to pay attention to what everyone else is saying about someone and be safe. Maybe that's not cowardice but prudent? I don't really blame my friends. How do they know what is true?
Loyalty is such a tricky thing eh? Hilter's secretary thought he was an ok guy. Is that denial? Cowardice? Judging for herself from what she saw? Or was she just stupid? How did she miss his evil behaviour? Ofcourse, there were facts to consider, in his case, which she must have missed or ignored. An extreme example of blind loyalty? I would have liked the benefit of the doubt but I didn't have the strength to sort through who was and was not willing to give that. I just ended all of the relationships and did as you say:
I guess you just have to write them off, and concentrate on the few decent people who remain.
I agree. I keep telling myself that there are plenty of decent people in the world to form new friendships with too. I just don't feel ready to try yet, in the real world, I guess.
Thanks for the hug Mud. Much needed and appreciated (from you too Brigid-thanks).
Sela
-
Hi Sela,
Is it cowardice to believe gossip?
I make a distinction between physical cowardice and moral cowardice.
To me it is cowardly in the sense that since, as you say, they have no way of knowing whether an accusation is true, if they believe it they are purposely siding with the accuser, with no reason to do so other than the nearly universal desire to protect oneself at someone else's expense. When an accusatory person comes along, the moral cowards are afraid of receiving the same treatment so they believe the BS or pretend to, to fend off a similar attack on themselves and to ingratiate themselves with an obviously potentially dangerous person. I can't define that any other way than as the basest herd-instinct cowardice.
I suppose in some sense it is understandable, but that doesn't change what it is.
The people who believe the lies about you have chosen to harm you to protect themselves, knowing full well you might be completely innocent.
If you don't want to call it cowardice, how about chickens**t instead? :x :P
I guess you can probably guess now why I could relate to your situation so well.
Yes, it really struck a chord as I was reading what you wrote.
They're all so similar. First they kill things like friendships and reputations, then they feed on the carrion they have made of other people's lives.
If it gives any comfort, I believe your tormenter will end up being fed on by his or her own set of vultures someday in eternity.
mudpup
-
Hi again Mud:
I suppose in some sense it is understandable, but that doesn't change what it is.
The people who believe the lies about you have chosen to harm you to protect themselves, knowing full well you might be completely innocent.
You're right again I think. Even though this may be common behaviour, that doesn't make it right.
Thanks for pointing that out.
If it gives any comfort, I believe your tormenter will end up being fed on by his or her own set of vultures someday in eternity.
It doesn't give me comfort because I don't wish that on my abuser or anyone. I do think this person is already suffering and being eaten alive by their own vultures, deep inside the self, and I pray that this will change and that the person will seek and find help. I doubt that will ever happen though. It's very unlikely, I think.
Sela
-
It doesn't give me comfort because I don't wish that on my abuser or anyone.
Well not today, anyway.
Thanks anyhow Mud for trying to offer comfort.
Sela
-
Hi again to you too Sela,
It doesn't give me comfort because I don't wish that on my abuser or anyone.
You're correct that it shouldn't give us comfort that anyone is eaten up by their disease/behavior or whatever you want to call it.
But sometimes it does give me comfort to know that those who never turn from their ways even until their death, will receive what they have meted out.
The thought of punishment doesn't comfort me on a personal level. It comforts on the level of knowing there is a cosmic scale of justice and knowing it is always in balance, even if not in this lifetime.
mudpup
-
Hey again Mud!
disease
If that is what it is, and it could be, I sure don't know, then how could the person with the disease deserve punishment?
Surely people aren't punished for having diseases and for acting due to disease processes?
It comforts on the level of knowing there is a cosmic scale of justice and knowing it is always in balance, even if not in this lifetime.
Me too. I haven't got a clue how that scale is going to work but I do believe it will and it is just not for me to understand.
:? Sela
-
Surely people aren't punished for having diseases and for acting due to disease processes?
Well, lets call it a 'free will-disease'.
They may be predisposed to mistreat people, but every act of spite and malice is still a conscious choice between right and wrong, with the full knowledge they are harming others.
Presumably that's why a PD is not a legal defense.
mud
-
Hi Zeene,
When I was in college, something not too different happened to me. I ended up hospitalized, and I was forced to withdraw from school--which devastated me--but in the end it was a good thing. A very wise and patient psychaitrist told me that my mother was in an elite corps of the world's most difficult people, and that I would have to disengage from her in order to be myself. It was good advice, and true, but even more than that, I'll always be grateful to Dr. G because he was perhaps the first person in my life to understand. The fact that my mother lied to me and about me only informed Dr. G's opinion of her; he saw right through her. She could not manipulate him, which infuriated her. She has never really forgiven me for the episode, but that is not important compared to the benefit I took from it, though of course her behavior hurt immensely at the time.
So I guess I'm saying that everything you say you feel is valid. But you seem to know that. I'd just like to suggest that maybe there's something positive that you can take from this experience, something completely separate from her behavior. If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much about what she said to others about you. They may not have believed her as readily as you would suppose. I would focus instead on unravelling the lies she told you about yourself, for those lies can interfere with your ability to see, know, and value yourself for who you are.
best,
daylily