Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Menow on June 16, 2005, 04:31:12 PM
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Hi Guys,
This wonderful neighbor friend who has been a new wonderful friend to me is going through a very stressful time and I need a reality check, big time.
To give you some background... He is a recovered pain pill addict... been clean for about a year. We met a few weeks ago when I moved in. I was dating someone who had a drug problem and neighbor friend, Mike, I will call him, stepped in and really helped me to walk away from this druggie.
We have gotten very close since and even started casually, carefully dating. Which has been wonderful.
Well, he is dealing with the final week of a year long nasty divorce. It is all coming to a head next week in court. I have been there for him as he has for me these couple of weeks, pretty balanced.
Well, this last week, he has been a bear to be around... of course. And I have been very understanding about putting my needs/feelings aside and being there for him. I think that is healthy, and in a healthy relationship the needs will flip flop, I think?
Needless to say, I reached my capacity for being there about two days ago. So I have made sure to take time for myself and have done my best to let him be and when we spend time together, to be there for him.
The problem is that it is too early in the relationship to be able to tell if he is a self-centered prick. (that is how I feel now! Feels good to say it). Or if he is just under insurmountable stress and can't help himself, disintegrating quickly into his lowest places. That is what i am experiencing.
I mean he is not abusing me or anything like that. He just thinks I am not being very understanding..... EGADS!!!! That is all I have been!!!! until I reached my limit and snapped back a few times yesterday and today. Syaing this is hard on me too. The good news is... I am dropping him off at the airport in about two hours!!!
I was very excited about this relationship in the beginning and I am just hoping I get the Mike back, that I first met. My little cautious voice reminds me that a lion's share of AA people are N's and the Alanon people are co-dpendants (me). So we are perfect fit for trouble OR healing.
I guess I would love some feedback and help. I have not been in many or ANY healthy relationships.... Is there anyone experienced out there around this commited relationship give and take thing?????
For now, I am definitely giving him the benefit of the doubt and doing my best to keep my mouth shut until it is all over for him. Then hopefully we can calmly talk it out, so that we can learn to treat each other kindly even if one of us is stressed out to the max, if that is possible. This whole thing is really new for me.... I appreciate any words of wisdom!!!!
The good news is, he is in therapy and has been really understanding for the most part. It is early though.
Menow
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Hi,
Even in relatively healthy relationships, people can have times when they can't stand each other. Or both need support at the same time and both feel unsupported. And other stuff. I'm not sure what he means by "not being understanding enough." It's kind of vague. Can you specify a bit more?
bunny
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Hi menow,
Here's something you said awhile back,
..........I dont even want to think about finding a man, that has been my escape and false hope for too too long, it doesnt work. When I work through this and make some progress, maybe then I will trust my choices........
Have you made enough progress to trust your choices yet, do you think?
I don't think its been even a month since you wrote that.
right now I am thankful to have men friends.......Who want nothing from me. And I do have some of those, once I take the savior blinders off and all the weirdness needing them to be my savior.
Are you sure you have your savior blinders off?
I'm not saying that to criticize you or him. Just wondering if you are having enough patience with letting things work their own way out in your life, before you go diving in again.
What do you think?
mudpup
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Hi Menow
I betting that your boyfriend is super stressed right now due to his impending court date.
I know whenever I had to go to court regarding my divorce or regarding custody issues, I was sooooo not myself the weeks prior to the court date. Court can bring out unpleasant moods in people. I am not excusing his behavior, I'm just trying to offer an explanation as to why he has turned into Dr. Jeckyl. From my expeience Mr Hyde will be back as soon as the dust has settled from court.
Also, it isn't easy to be involved with someone as they are entrenched in the actual process of a divorce. I hope this works out for you.
Best wishes
Mia
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Hey, Menow: pick up a copy of the book: Crazy Time. I lent it out, but the woman who wrote it did so specifically for recently divorced/broken up people. I wish I had read it before my second marriage....(and divorce). Even if your friend doesn't read it, you might find things in there to help understand the post divorce/break up crazies (for both of you).
It's hard to know what's normal when you haven't been around it, I agree completely! That you are glad this guy is going away is something to pay attention to.
Give yourself the gift of NOT having to worry about someone else for a while. With this relationship, at this time, are you giving something up that you need right now?
I really truly wish I had taken more time alone after my split...but every body's story is different. That book, however, really put what I had done into a common perspective.
Don't get worried, whatever you do. It's your time to relax about your life and focus on healing...yourself, not him. Everything will be fine.
(((((Menow)))))), don't fret.
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If Mike was NOT a recovered drug abuser, would you have connected up with him? Honestly,truly? Would he have had the same 'pulling' power.
Can you step away from his personal drama and let him solve it all by himself without offering your support?
Does his drama and turmoil seem familiar ? Do you NEED to help him ?Has he ASKED for your advice or support, or did you just 'go to work' on his personal problems?
Just wondering.
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Hi Guys,
Wow, some great feedback, thanks, all of it helpful.
And Mudpup, of course I could count on you to give it to me straight! Egads! I did say that, just weeks ago... Kinda scary. I got swallowed up again. It is like I start sliding down that slippery slope, then before I know it I am in a relationship and unfocused again. Thanks for pointing out what I had said. Thanks for caring. I like what you said...
Just wondering if you are having enough patience with letting things work their own way out in your life, before you go diving in again.
I need to let myself have time. I need to let myself have space. It is like I create these individuals who are in a crisis and I tell myself, Oh they need me, just for now, they need me. But I think I use it as a distraction to avoid myself. I am scared, actually scared to focus on myself. Petrified to be direct. I am afraid I am going to get in BIG BIG trouble if I make myself happy, do nice things for me, PROSPER. Oh big big trouble if I prosper and focus on me. It is the whole whistle blower thing.
My family was threatened if I did well. I felt like a threat if I did well. So I have used all my energy to melt in, to disappear, to make do. I am at the threshold of not being able to do that anymore, and it is scary. It is threatening to my child. She is scared that I am doing well, and being seen. She is scared that I am putting her in a very risky position. But me the adult cant live that way anymore. It is no longer okay. So I will gently talk to her. And as scared as I am make some progress. Take some steps.
I did work on my book a few times. I need to also feel okay about taking time to myself when others seem to need me. I would love to keep Mike as my friend and yes, a possible romantic relationship, but I need to keep the focus on me and my healing at all costs.
Thank you, Mia, Mum, Jophil, Bunny, and Mudpup. Really, thank you. This is so helpful. As a friend, I think he is going through a very stressful time and will come back a different person. I miss the old him.
But again, it will be great practice for me to have him as a friend and NOT abandon myself and my needs. Usually I would just leave him totally now, and do the black or white thing, all or nothing. This will be great practice for me to be with me and keep this friendship going. And I will get back on track while he is gone for 10 days.
Mum, that book sounds great! I will reccomend it to him, and look at it myself. It sounds good.
Jophil, I think I do have a tendency to just "go to work" on people's problems whether they want it or not. I do it as an avoidance of talking about my stuff.
Menow
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Hiya menow,
I was kind of worried you wouldn't appreciate having your words tossed back in your face like that, but you took it as it was intended. :D
I hope you find somebody who aint broke and don't need fixin.
There's a few out there. They're hard to see with the 'savior blinders' on though. :wink:
mud
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Hi Mud,
Thanks for the note... I saw my therapist today, it was a really good session. Lots to think about. Yeah, I hear you. Finding someone who aint broke, that would be nice. It seems a bit impossible. Someone with enough energy for me. It would be very nice. I guess all I can think about is why would they want me then, and maybe they wouldnt even understand me if they came from a healthy childhood. I did have some potential relationships like that, and they didnt/couldnt understand me. But maybe you are saying finding someone who has done most of the work already.
I am curious, it sounds like you are married or at least in a relationship. What is your partner like, what is/was your situation as a child and where are you now with it all. If you dont mind talking about it. Maybe it will inspire me. Feeling blue tonight. Just blue and yes, lonely. But as my therapist has said, I need to be there for me. So I am doing that tonight and from now on, doing my best anyway.
Thanks for caring.
Menow
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Hi Menow -- I read all the replies to your post and there was a quote from you which triggered a response in me . You said that he said that,"You were not understanding enough" ( or something close to that ).
I am not sure or certain what is going on in his mind but I do recall feeling like that on several occasions with those of my lady friends who had 'savoir behavior' down to a fine art. What I felt was that they did not take the time to really understand what I was feeling and saying in times of turmoil. They assumed that they 'just knew' without really listening deeply.
One lady appeared to have a need to force her own solution into the situation rather that respond to what I was saying that I needed from her. This added to my frustration and I recall feeling some resentment towards her because I sensed that she was trying to 'manage' my problem HER way instead of supporting me in the way that I wanted. I responded by distancing myself from her. and I remember giving her one 'strike'.
Just a thought--John.
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it's ok for you to take a wee break from all the stress, to tell him that you don't feel it's positive to spend time together while he's got so many issues to sort out.
Yes, that means if he is a selfish jerk it's probably the beginning of the end of the relationship.
But if he wants to keep you either as a friend or anything more- he has to learn to respect your boundaries. And right now he's bringing you down with his own problems. Which are not your responsibility, right?
I only learned this myself quite recently- it is perfectly possible for an adult to sort out their own problems, and that real grown-ups actually prefer to do so before embarking on a big relationship or acting out with their nearest and dearest.
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Jophil,
Thank you for your experience. I have been questioning that and really looking maybe for the first time, if I wasnt there for him. Usually I would say to myself "f-you, too bad for you, I'm outta here." Not good, I know.
I can be a bit know it all ish. And because I am in my own stressful time, I give what I give and if that isnt what he wants then too bad for him, he should be thankful for what I am giving.... I know that attitude is not very nice or helpful. But maybe I can at least own up to that with him. That I am doing the best I can, and that I am actually just not able to be there for him, like he needs.
I appreciate your perspective. It helps me to see it from his point of view. And also to just at least inform him up front that I am not capable of being there, rather than martyr myself and be resentful afterwards. He doesnt deserve that and neither do I. Because I end up being mean to someone I care about. Or maybe just rethink my whole need to save, and just allow myself to listen not to have to fix, I think that is it. Let myself off the hook. Listen when I can, not fix. And when I cant, say so. No resentments.
I am going to look at that, jophil, thanks
Menow
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Hi Menow
I had a really interesting reaction to the 'not understanding enough' thing. It brought back an old, old, long buried memory.
Long ago I dated a guy who always managed to drop an anvil on me whenever I was feeling particularly cheerful and bright in his presence. He did this by finding something that I was not being 'enough' of, and gobsmacking me with it when I least expected it.
It worked, too, for a while; it kept me unsure of myself, insecure around him, etc.
But then, one day, he goofed. He got that old familiar look on his face, took a deep breath, and told me I wasn't "spontaneous enough".
For some reason, all the lights came on, and I felt like I'd just discovered fire. I remember asking him, gee, how do I learn how to be spontaneous properly? Are there classes? Am I 90% spontaneous enough, or only 60%? How do you assign a percentage score? Did they publish it somewhere? Do you have a copy I could borrow?
Then I couldn't keep my face straight anymore, and I just broke up laughing... and repeating 'I'm not spontaneous enough? not spontaneous enough! Oh God, I have no reason to go on living! I'm not spontaneous enough!'
Needless to say, the date ended right there, right then. I was suddenly and totally aware that this person never cared about me and was never going to. He just got a kick out of kicking me around.
Beware the man who tells you you aren't "XYZ" enough. He's telling you a lot more about himself than about you.
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Hey Menow, There is only one way to find out what the guy meant when he said the you were not understanding enough -ask him what he wants from you.
If he gives you a credible answer, believe it. This is a better approach than mind reading or crystal ball gazing or even asking us. We have NO way of looking into the workings of his mind.
I doubt whether, given the circumstances, there is any similarity between Plucky Duck's guy and yours . Your guy sounds overwhelmed by the current events in his life, Plucky's guy sounds like a mindgameplaying control freak who liked to 'keep 'em on the ropes' in order to hold the upper hand.
John/.
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Unlucky Ducky,
I have definitiely dated men like that. But even worse, I have been like that myself... and have been told that I am like that. In fact friends have told me things almost to the T of what you responded with to your dating partner(that was good by the way! It must have felt sooo good to say).
I think that instead of being vulnerable and sharing MY insecurities with my new "partner" I pick on his weaknesses to make me feel better or try to "fix" him. Rather than looking at mine and trying to fix my own issues. I really do need to focus on myself in every way.
There is only one way to find out what the guy meant when he said the you were not understanding enough -ask him what he wants from you.
If he gives you a credible answer, believe it.
Jophil, that is a good point. There were a few instances that occurred where he was short with me and I showed my disdain or anger about it, promptly excused myself(because of what he is going through, I didnt want to dump it on him).
Then he came to me and said I wasnt being understanding enough. He said that he hates to think anyone is angry at him, and that he just cannot be concerned about how I am feeling right now, that he cannot deal with making me feel better, that it is just one more pressure. I said, of course, I understand. But I can still have my feelings privately. I am doing the best I can too. And not to worry, I am not going to leave him. I am just angry. And we can talk about it when the court date is all over. That seemed to make him feel better. But in our last few conversations, I can feel that he is distant. Probably just trying to be benign. I am just trying to be supportive and take care of myself.
I also need to focus on me, and that I really cannot get swallowed up by anyone anytime. But keep the focus on me. I think I was putting my feelings and needs aside so much, he didnt see it or appreciate it. Which put me over the edge. It was then that he said I wasnt being understanding, because he could feel I reached my limit.
Thanks, it helps to figure out what is really going on.
Menow
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I am really not liking myself. I so appreciate all the feedback I am getting from you all. As I have been thinking about my relationships and my life right now. I realize that I have spent my life angry. Angry at the world, angry at God, and angry at my family, and there is a place for that. And God knows I have reason. But I have not really looked at my faults. I think it is time.
I have been on the defensive for so long and been wronged for so long, that I just defend all of me. Even the ugly parts. I think that weighs on me somehow. That because I was abused does not give me a free pass to act or be anyway I want. Which is how I have been living. I know for the most part I am kind and caring. But I can also be judgemental and a know it all. Not really listening to others. I want to be a contribution to society. A positive one. I have felt so neglected and so empty that I had nothing to offer.
I am just thinking about it, I am not going to run out and save the world. I just want to be an understanding person. Not a know it all, judgemental one. I am not going to give my power away to anyone. I am just looking at what kind of person I want to be.
Menow
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((((((Menow)))))))
I hear you. I've been there, and some days, I'm right back there, down in the mud, saying,"damnit, I thought I wasn't going to do this anymore!!"
But KNOWING I am in the mud is HUGE!!! Because then I can make a choice...to stay there and explore the mud (very advisable at times) and figure out how I got here agian.....or to pick my sorry butt up, once again and FORGIVE myself for falling down.
Falling in the mud is an integral and inevitable part of being human.
Accepting that about yourself (about everyone) is so relieving and empowering. You get to get back up. You get to fall down again.
It's all OKAY!!!
Finding compassion for myself seemed way harder than finding it for others.....but I found out, when I really looked hard, that in doing this repeatedly, I was ANGRY!!!! Well, why wouldn't I be?
I was tough on myself, easy on others and I kept falling in the damn mud!!!!
Realizing that forgiving MYSELFis where healing starts.....well that made all the difference for me.
Am I "healed"? Who knows? I think I am healthier. Do I have it all figured out? I doubt it!
All I know is you are not alone. AND you can start, right where you are, by being compassionate with yourself.
(((((menow)))))) You'll be okay.
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Mum,
Thanks for the (((( ))))))) Just what I needed. I HAVE to forgive myself it is the only way. I have bruised, beaten, lied to, cajoled myself enough. Whatever you said, really made me feel better and acceptable as I am. Thank you. I feel like all I can do is allow myself to be as I am right now.
I had to go to a party this afternoon and I HATED it. Believe me, I have no trouble doing what I want and this was one of those rare occasions that I had to attend. So I did. UGH! But I am back now in my cozy little apt. All me all tonight, all day tom. Just me. It feels good. I dont have to deal with anyone but me!
So thanks again, mum, I am really not sure what you said, but it gave me sooo much comfort. Like you get it. Like you understand. I feel accepted as I am, dirt and all. :( Thanks.
Menow
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Hi Menow you are right when you say that you need to focus on you and let him alone for a while -
It was a revelation to me when I got to understand that caring for myself was SO much simpler and less exhausting than trying to 'help' other people who were not receptive to my largess. Many times I did resent their apparent indifference to my 'wisdom' - I saw them as callous and ungrateful and foolishly deaf to my 'speeches' which were so well conceived but seemed to be unwelcome.
Yeh, I knew it all too -I just did not know that giving must come from a position of personal 'surplus' or abundance.In other words, give to others when your own needs have been fulfilled and you have energy left over. This concept is rather different from the standard Christian position which encourages us to give to others at our personal expense.
Just a thought -John.
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Jophil,
I totally agree. And I love how you put it. It really helps. Yes, I have definitely felt the same way... how could they reject my speeches. Maybe because they have nothing to do with the person I am giving them to and everything to do with me!
While reading your post, I realized that with Mike, I do give to get. And I think he does the same thing. We are both really needy, not giving to ourselves... so we both get resentful about not getting enough attention etc.
I NEED TO GIVE TO MYSELF, before I get in any relationship. And I more more committed to that right now. I think we or I get it in my head that I need someone, or I am not okay... my child. I need to conciously wake up, look around and tell myself the truth that I am fine on my own, more than fine. I just need to keep reminding me and my child about that fact.
Oh and dont even get me started on my christian soap box, martyr martyr martyr. I dont mean to offend any christians in here, but I grew up catholic and pretty much hating myself, born sinner, shameful to be human, and all that. I think it is against the christian law to be "selfish" or what they should really say, it is against the law to be POWERFUL because then we might not NEED the church.
Thanks, John, for all your words and reflections. They really help me.
Menow
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Hi Menow - a couple of points that occured to me just now.
Firstly, I think that it is likely that children, who grow up in a family where there is a 'free and easy flow' of love and acceptance , probably choose adult partners who deliver much the same. These people are the lucky ones.
Conversely, those of use who had love denied us or had it given conditionally in return for obedience or as 'payment' for certain behavior or performance, have been set up to 'work' for love.It is not too hard to see how children who had to earn or extract love as children would continue this tradition in their adult relatiohships. They/we experience love as a reward which surely must follow our efforts to 'help' others.
However what happens if our adult partner does not play this love game our way and deliver the love that we expect ? I guess that we are let down and hurt and feel cheated out of what is (to our mind) rightfully ours. And the resentment starts to built and we try 'helping' even harder. You all know how it goes after that.
Just a thought - John.
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Hi Menow and Jophil
I'm Christian, and I agree that the concept of giving and loving is distorted in many churches. I don't go to those churches and I don't give them my money or time. Simple problem simple solution. Feed the things you want to grow, don't feed the things you don't. But you are right about the damage that is done to some people.
On the other hand, AA was started by Christians. That looks like a pretty good example of what real giving and loving should be. Including its self restraint. It doesn't try to convert anyone. It just tries to help people and lets them decide what that means. And look how many meetings happen in churches.
Menow, you asked how it felt to tell off the guy who was emotionally abusing me. It felt awful. I was sick to my stomach and shaking and couldn't wait to get away from him. But after his mean, critical putdown, when I suddenly realized what was going on it was like some strong person stepped into my skin and said what had to be said to break the spell. Right then I felt strong and safe. Then I got out of there and went home and never saw him again and felt sick and shaky and scared.
I found out later that you hand on to others what you don't hand back to the people who abuse you. Abusiveness is a disease. You can catch it if you get exposed to it.
This is a really cool thread. Thanks for talking about this stuff.
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I am really not sure what you said, but it gave me sooo much comfort. Like you get it. Like you understand. I feel accepted as I am, dirt and all.
Menow. I do get it....and because of the next quote from you, I think:
I grew up catholic and pretty much hating myself, born sinner, shameful to be human, and all that. I think it is against the christian law to be "selfish" or what they should really say, it is against the law to be POWERFUL because then we might not NEED the church.
Ditto in it's entirety!!! I have never heard it so perfectly put. You took the concepts out of my mind and put them in exactly the right words!
Exactly!!!!
And Jophil: just so you know:
Firstly, I think that it is likely that children, who grow up in a family where there is a 'free and easy flow' of love and acceptance , probably choose adult partners who deliver much the same. These people are the lucky ones.
I was one of the "lucky ones" because I did grow up surrounded by this kind of family......but I chose (before, not now) horrible partners because of my parents' loving but misguided intention of having us experience the Catholicism that Menow speaks about. Well, that and simply who I am, or my unique take on it all (I have many siblings without these same manifestations).
I don't attach blame, though, it's all part of my path.
Menow: there is a great book by Debbie Ford, called "The Secret of the Shadow" where she encourages us to accept and even celebrate the "lumps in our batter" as she calls it, that make up the wonderful "cake" we are!!! Very cool concept.
Also, Pema Chodron, in her writings, because she is a Buddhist, talks frequently about compassion for oneself.....and with that the ability to accept responsibility for ourselves and our experiences as well.
I think you will be fine. Just a question, if you don't mind (I feel we may be very similar):
were you especially sensitive as a child?
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I found out later that you hand on to others what you don't hand back to the people who abuse you. Abusiveness is a disease. You can catch it if you get exposed to it.
Unlucky Ducky: could you explain this to me? I guess I need it spelled out: I will tell you why:
(sorry Menow if I am hijacking....I'll take it elsewhere if you think I should)
I am dealing (always) with a very nasty ex husband. He has asked me to respond in email (which can and very likely be used in our court case) to a request for "help" in "punishing" our son (long story), and in it he also makes reference to my parenting as weak.
Well, I don't believe in "punishing" an almost adult child, let alone for a bad grade on a report card, as natural consequences are the best teachers, etc etc....(which he is already feeling, but I don't feel I owe my ex this explanation.....)
I am trying to decide whether or not to totally blast him in a letter that tells him I think his parenting is alienating his son and I disagree with his approach entirely (there is a long story here....appalling) or not.
The thing is this:
Do I send it because like a kid who is sick of the bully on the playground who finally gets enough and says STOP! I won't let you pick on me any more!!!! (but then it lets him feel glad he has "engaged me", which thrills him no end so he can continue the exchange)....OR do I continue to turn the other cheek and then have him be able to say in court: see? she won't even respond and I'm the good parent and I'm trying to work with her here......
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Mum: be careful. It looks to me like your nasty ex is trying to trap you into saying something in writing that is inappropriate in some way so that he can use it against you.
Lawyers are very expensive but I think any response to his request should maybe be drafted by yours and not by you alone.
"Abusiveness is a disease." That comes from Patricia Evans who writes about verbally abusive relationships. "What you don't hand back, you hand on." comes from Dr. Wayne Dyer.
Put their ideas together. If you are abused and you don't understand how abuse works then you don't know what is right or wrong about how you are treated. You learn to treat others the way you are treated.
I think this can happen at any age. Like brainwashing. It's like a disease in your thoughts and feelings, that you get because of contact with someone else who has it. And they are trying to give it to you on purpose.
But then if you can catch it, it can be cured and you can get shots. Awareness is the cure and the shots too. For me, the books by Patricia Evans were a good place to get awareness.
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U duck: thanks for the advice, I did (as I always do) send the letter to my attorney for review. I actually even wrote a less inflammatory one that stuck to MY feelings and opinions, rather than his (although, in that I told him what I thought of what he had done).
You are right, they are expensive (just got another huge bill....hard to believe the retainer is gone AGAIN and already).
Money is fluid....it comes in ..... it goes out....it comes in again... so I can find a way with the expense (I always do).
I think I understand what you wrote to mean that if we are aware that we are responding because of abuse, that we can learn from our pain and pass on the learning....the healing.... from our transformation? That makes perfect sense to me (and what I am counting on!!!)
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I am dealing (always) with a very nasty ex husband. He has asked me to respond in email (which can and very likely be used in our court case) to a request for "help" in "punishing" our son (long story), and in it he also makes reference to my parenting as weak.
This is a hook with bait dangling from it. I would have your attorney reply to his attorney (not to him), nothing from you. And ask that he not directly contact you.
bunny
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Gosh,
There is so much good stuff here, I dont know where to begin or how to respond! I am overwhelmed.... Hmmmm.
Jophil,
Wow, you put it so succinctly. I get caught up in that probably in every relationship I have. Thanks for laying it out so clearly, it will help me and others I am sure, to stop myself whenever I am setting up this game. NOBODY OWES ME ANYTHING, I think is a good standard to live by. I get to choose whether to love or care if I want and to expect nothing in return. That is tough, but so crucial, I see. Of course, all the manipulating stems from.. no one is going to love me for me, no one is going to love me if I dont manipulate them to. Yeah, it's time to find out. Scary, but time.
And by the way, my friend Mike called from where out of state, things are moving along with his divorce.. and it seemed like I was talking to a different person! The old him is back :) So I think it was the stress of the divorce. That was nice to get my friend back. Not to base my life on him or anyone, but it was nice to see my instincts were right and nice to have my dear friend back.
Unlucky Ducky,
Yes, I am sure there are churches that promote self empowerment etc. and AA is an awesome program, I didnt realize it was christian based. I just have a yucky history, like Mum! And even though you were shaking after speaking up, I still hope it felt empowering to do that?!?! It has when I have. I confronted my dad about the sexual abuse and I was shaking too, dizzy, etc. But oh my God, my life changed forever.
Mum,
Wow! We are so similar. Yeah, that church thing! Yuck! I am so glad I got it EXACTLY! Thanks!!! IT felt good to "speak" that out loud here, man. It is such a male chauvinistic society, most christianity that I have experienced. Us little women need to lean on our strong man. What would us helpless folk do without them?!?! If you are hearing a little rage there, you are right! :twisted:
ANd I have heard of that book, THe Secret of the Shadow! I will have to add that to my long list of to do's! And yes, I was a sensitive child. Of course!!! You too!!! The story or my life... "you are just too sensitive." Please! The world should be more sensitive! I am on a roll now.
Okay, I better stop while I am ahead... I am having a really good day. All to myself, getting alot done in my apt. and having some quality time with myself :)
Menow
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I'm barging in here but hopefully won't offend. I've noticed some references to Patricia Evans' books about abuse on the board in the last few weeks and thought folks might like to have some more info - there is a good review available online that has a lot of substance to it.
http://www.cyberparent.com/abuse/book-verbally-abusive-relationship-long.htm
I put this URL up on the other board too. It actually talks about the specific kinds of psychological / verbal abuse that are discussed in the book.
Could be worth a look. Anyway, 'scuse me for interrupting. ;-)
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Stormchild,
I actually have this book and read parts of it. I did go to the URL you have posted... it was good to read through and has some good tips... I will keep my eyes and ears open, since I know I am vulnerable to accept verbal abuse, thanks for posting this.
Menow
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Hey, Menow. Daylily started a very interesting post on faith. Check it out.
I think it is healthy, although not always popular, for us to rail against what we found abusive in our lives. I think it is because we were such sensitive children (hope it's ok for me to use "us" and "we") that our interpretation of what we heard through Catholic doctrine did indeed, hurt us. I have no problem with the foundations of most religions, just the ways they have been "played".
I have siblings who have no issue with the church, and the issues they do have do not prevent them from still being "Catholic". Good for them.
I cannot do this, however, as I cannot stand affiliations that may or may not paint me with a wide brush as to my beliefs. Many of my other siblings feel this way as well. We all, however, are very spiritual....although not religious.
I was always told to get a thicker skin, don't take things to heart, etc.....and never knew why others couldn't simply be more careful, why others didn't also take what they said or did "to heart".
Now I make no apologies for that. I knew I was right to follow my own feelings from day one. I was NOT damaged until I stopped following my own voice. Now I am spending my life trying to get back to that....what a ride, huh??
I knew I should have trusted that sensitive little girl all along. Luckily the one other person who "gets" the real me.....is back in my life. Damn, I'm a lucky girl!!!! (it happens, Menow...it does).
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Mum,
I knew I should have trusted that sensitive little girl all along.
ohhh, I can picture you, that sensitive little girl. That just touches my heart. I could feel mine too when I read that. We just don't give them enough attention and caring, or I should say, I don't. (You can use we, as it is usually true for me too) She had nobody, my little girl. No one. Poor thing.
And gosh, Mum, I am so happy that you found someone who really understands you. That is a big inspiration. I hope to find that one day, too. :)
I will check out the faith thread. Thanks!
Menow