Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Stormchild on July 07, 2005, 06:55:49 AM

Title: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Stormchild on July 07, 2005, 06:55:49 AM: We will all be thinking of and worrying about you and your friends and loved ones... please check in, dear UK folks, once you have a chance to catch your breath, and do let us know how you are.

What else is there to say? I woke up and turned on the radio and heard about the London bombings first thing. I haven't even gone to an online newspaper yet, I wanted to come here first. I'll be spending most of the day in prayer for you, please check in when you get a chance, although I understand that this won't be anything like the first thing you think of now, nor should it be.

Crying for you, and for

"This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,--
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England."
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: gfn on July 07, 2005, 08:00:17 AM: I'm very, very, very sorry to hear about what happened and I pray that you board members and guests, in the UK, are safe and sound! Also, my prayers for your friends and families and for all those who have been injured or killed. God bless you all!!

Like Stormy, I haven't visited any news site.....just heard on the radio, over here in Canada, and wanted to send you all a big, huge, giant, massive, great, large hug:

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((all UK people)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

God bless you and keep you safe!!1

I feel so sad and angry to hear what has happened and I hope somehow that it turns out to be an accident, rather than the sick behaviour of some individuals.

GFN
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Cadbury on July 07, 2005, 08:43:07 AM: Thank you for all your thoughts and prayers - that is so kind of you. I have only just heard from my baby sister (well, she's 20, but will always be the baby) who was in London today. From when we heard about the bombings until we heard she was okay was about 3 1/2 hours and they were some of the most worrying hours of my life. She is okay, thank God.

I hope everyone else and all their families are okay. My prayers are with the people who have lost friends or family. Take care everyone.
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: lynne on July 07, 2005, 08:51:42 AM: ((((((((((UK)))))))))))

I'm so sorry to hear of the terrorist attacks in London.

Lynne
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Portia on July 07, 2005, 08:54:41 AM: Hello Storm and Gfn, well. Thank you for your messages and my wishes also go to everyone else in the uk. Good to hear from you Cadbury. Hi Lynne too, long time! (Sorry... might be another Lynne?)

Looks like whichever group is responsible did this to wreck the transport system at rush hour - not to kill as many people as possible (fatalities are few so far). But sick stuff again I'm afraid. Violence is not an acceptable language.
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Brigid on July 07, 2005, 09:23:34 AM: To all our friends in the UK,
So sorry for the news this morning. It was good to hear from Cadbury and Portia and know you are safe and sound.

Sending you all hugs and blessings.

Brigid
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: daylily on July 07, 2005, 09:47:19 AM: So sorry to learn of this. I hope all of the UK participants and their loved ones are safe.

daylily
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: October on July 07, 2005, 11:30:10 AM: No man is an island entire of itself;
every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the maine;
if a Clod be washed away by the Sea, Europe is the lesse,
as well as if a Promontorie were,
as well as if a Manor of thy friends or of thine own were.
Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde.
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls.
It tolls for thee.

John Donne
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: write on July 07, 2005, 02:27:13 PM: I hadn't seen this Stormchild. Well, surely puts my trivial problems in perspective. I have several friends and relatives in London, hoping they're all safe. Praying for the missing and injured.
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Jona on July 07, 2005, 05:30:16 PM: I spent the whole day worrying about the three people I know that work in central London. They are all ok but one of them was on one of the trains that was bombed. My husband is doing some work on his house and was surprised to see him come home in the middle of the afternoon. My husband said his face was ashen and he was very shook up.

I hope all of the posters here are safe and their loved ones too.

Jona
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: bunny on July 07, 2005, 07:01:23 PM: My condolences are with all who live in London and the UK. They can never break an Englishman (or woman). Hugs, bunny
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: write on July 07, 2005, 10:52:39 PM: this will be so hard on many people in Britain, not only those affected, but all those affected by the many years of terrorism there; it will bring back so many unhappy memories. I am sad for my country tonight.

The day before was so happy for London too, learning that they will host the next Olympic Games, I got several excited emails...
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Sela on July 09, 2005, 09:59:20 AM: Hi Write:

Congratulations to your country for winning the host to the next Olympics!!!
I'm sorry that these jerks managed to take away your joy about that! You guys would have been celebrating and now, instead, you are mourning.

I am glad that the number of people killed was not higher and sad for those who lost family members/friends. :( Also very sad for those who were hurt.

I just keep thinking about it and I just don't get people who terrorize. I grew up in a house with one individual who seemed to enjoy instilling terror and I still don't understand him...except to accept that he was sick. Thinking of a whole group/or groups of people who think nothing of ......killing and injuring others and who are... glad about the terror they instill.... just sickens me. How can they have such little regard for life? How can people behave like such animals? How can they justify what they do and consider themselves good/like heros? How can they watch the suffering of others and enjoy it?? :shock: :shock: :shock: :twisted:

I wish they could be caught and stopped but they won't be. There will always be more of them, marching behind them, more following in their footsteps.. to carry on their terror. It's so depressing!

I'm usually a fairly positive person but in regard to this problem......I just don't see a resolution. It's an evil that reigns in this world and it's power is great. :twisted: The worst is there is no way to avoid it. None.

Not one of us knows if we, or our loved ones, will be next. I put it out of my mind, most of the time, and do my best not to let such thoughts interfere in my life but I have a hard time doing that when I know there are so many who can't do that....because they are living with it. We lived with it here....after 911....and many were effected. I lived between 2 nuclear plants (at that time) and I had the trunk of my car packed with food, clothing, supplies for my entire family. How I expected to get them or get anywhere safe....if the worst happened?.....I have no idea, but I was thatttt afraid!! And I'm not generally a person that lets fear rule my life!!!

These terrorist's actions make me angry!! :x :x They cause me to feel afraid!!! :shock: I feel nauseated to think of them enjoying the harm they cause!! (and there's no icon for that!).

I wish I could offer you some words of wisdom or encouragement but I can't think of any.

The best any of us can do is put it out of our minds until the next event??
Trust our governments to handle it?
How useless is that???

I'm soooo sorry for those who feel that fear now. :( :( :( :(
And that anger and that deep sadness. :( :( :( :(
But most especially......that helplessness. The inability to do something....anything....to prevent this from happening again. :( :( :( :(

And I'm gonna say this again because you guys deserve to be reminded of something good and worth celebrating, even though that celebration was also....killed..........

Congratulations to your country for winning the host to the next Olympics!!!!!!

Sela
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: October on July 09, 2005, 01:19:05 PM: Bit of history, to put things into perspective a little.

During the Blitz, deaths in Britain from bombing settled down at between 3,000 and 5,000 a month, which was regarded as sustainable.

In the House of Commons, 8 October 1940, Churchill remarked; 'It would take ten years at the present rate for half of the houses of London to be demolished. After that, of course, progress would be much slower.'

:)
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Portia on July 09, 2005, 04:57:52 PM: October, I think I understand what you say above about a
Quote
Bit of history, to put things into perspective a little
as my reply following to Sela might show. When you use the word ‘perspective’, I think it might sound like you’re saying that you’re putting the facts forward? That you’re offering the truth, a slice of reality?

A perspective is always a subjective view, I think. Your perspective may not be the same as mine. In this case, the immediacy of death has an emotional impact on some people (‘feeling’ as opposed to ‘thinking’ people perhaps?). To give them a thinking perspective as the truth (the facts, the reality) may be perceived by them as you telling them off for having feelings I think. And they might react like humiliated children.

Nevertheless I take your point, lives are expendable in any country. I’m not sure if numbers of deaths matters: 50 deaths can be as bad as 30,000,000 deaths depending on your perceptions. But sure, individual lives are pretty cheap anywhere. I’ve always thought that! I wonder why…? <where is the wry irony emoticon>. I really hope you see my point though?
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Portia on July 09, 2005, 05:07:17 PM: GFN……Sela!

Quote
How can people behave like such animals?

Possibly the bus bombers blew themselves up in the process. Possibly they were suicide bombers? Suicide bombers do what they do sometimes to achieve paradise in heaven, I've heard. Their reward. They have a real motive to die. Incredible to me. But not really, mistreated children can be brainwashed into anything.

Quote
How can they justify what they do and consider themselves good/like heros? How can they watch the suffering of others and enjoy it??

(Bold intended.)This can be applied to any situation where people kill and maim other people for some ‘just cause’. Not to mention any particular of course, but any war will do. I was a little angry too when I sat and watched the events unfold on tv. I was angry that some people think that this sort of thing has to happen. And I’m sad for those people, as well as angry. With the Olympics coming to London, I shan’t be visiting the capital if I’m around in 7 years. It seems an obvious target for angry people from those countries who aren’t invited (or who can’t afford) to join the party. “You can’t join in our game. You’re not civilised enough!” Civilised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
Trust our governments to handle it?
How useless is that???

I think it’s a bit like trusting our parents to do their very best for us. No, not a bit, a lot like that. A lot. Many people do trust their govts to handle things. And they’re trained by the state not to think for themselves. I do think that most people behave in some way like children some of the time. Especially when it comes to voting or other real ‘adult’ stuff! Governments are parents. The police are parents. etc etc.

It is useless to put your trust – your life – in someone else’s hands, unless you know them and trust them through knowledge of them through a close relationship. Do I trust any authority in the UK with my life? Nope. I’m just one in 66 million people and of no individual value (unless i do something to challenge the authority of the authorities....or alternatively, do something to make them look good, like winning a tinny Gold Medal ...... :P :D.) Have I gone too far yet???? (Always checking with my little insidious voices :roll:) What do you think Sela?
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Stormchild on July 09, 2005, 05:24:58 PM: Quote from: Portia on July 09, 2005, 04:57:52 PM
(‘feeling’ as opposed to ‘thinking’ people perhaps?)

Is it possible to both think and feel? I think it is... at least, I feel as though I think that. Or, anyway, I think I feel that way.
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: October on July 10, 2005, 01:41:02 PM: Quote from: Stormchild on July 09, 2005, 05:24:58 PM
Quote from: Portia on July 09, 2005, 04:57:52 PM
(‘feeling’ as opposed to ‘thinking’ people perhaps?)

Is it possible to both think and feel? I think it is... at least, I feel as though I think that. Or, anyway, I think I feel that way.

I would say it is possible to feel without thinking, but not possible to think without feeling, unless you are from my family, where feelings are not allowed, and you learn at an early age to switch them off. :?

My t asked me once, where is the switch? I said, in the mind, of course. Where else?

Off to lie down and stop thinking too much :lol: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Sela on July 10, 2005, 03:17:07 PM: Hi all:

Hey P: Ya, just as you say:
Quote
...mistreated children can be brainwashed into anything.

And whole societies teach children to seek such sick "rewards" too eh?

Quote
...any war will do.

Won't it though! War is evil!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Quote
And I’m sad for those people, as well as angry. With the Olympics coming to London, I shan’t be visiting the capital if I’m around in 7 years. It seems an obvious target for angry people from those countries who aren’t invited ...

I would probably not go either. Another sad thing that angers me. Your country won such an honour and people will be afraid to attend because they could be a target. The terrorists win again!!! They instill fear successfully!!!

I hate letting terrorists win!!! I really do!!! :x

Quote
Do I trust any authority in the UK with my life?

To a certain extent, none of us have any choice. The authorities are in charge of such things as security and the police/secret services are in charge of tracking terrorists. The only real choice we have is to attend or not attend gatherings, to ride or not ride transportation, to hide in our houses like mice or risk being blown up on a simple subway ride. Trust? I don't trust that anything is even moderately secure. The only safe place in this world is our graves!!!
I'm not there yet so I take the odd risk. But I feel like a coward!!

Who said the world is safe? How stupid of me to expect it!! I'm the one with the problem. I need to accept that there is no such thing as safe. Working on that. Not liking it though. :(

As to thinking and feeling.....I think I feel. I act (even though my choices, in this case are limited). I act by speaking out. I act by taking some risks. I act by praying for peace. I feel fear and anger and sadness because I think I am safe and then realize, I'm not.
I feel the pain of those who have lost people they care about over such ridiculous, incredible, selfishness.

I seek my rewards but not by way of harming others. I'm lucky I was born in a place where I was taught that. I pity the uncivilised and I vent because at least that will help me to remember what I have been taught, and hopefully keep me....from becoming a terrorist too. :evil:

Sela
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Portia on July 10, 2005, 05:27:58 PM: Great vent Sela! I won’t be staying away from London in 2012 from fear though: it’s a bit like not crossing the road in front of an oncoming car – why take the risk? But then I am particularly risk-averse these days. Well for daft things anyway.

What’s that line?...”Terrorism begins at home” and it’s true. Terrorists are made not born and not everyone in a certain social environment bows to the dictator of the day, some resist (those who have a good sense of self and who can question the hogwash they are fed).

Those who can’t question, who need to feel wanted and valuable….are targets. Are they selfish? Yes. But there’s always, always a reason (which is never an excuse). Sela, I guess someone somewhere loved you and gave you something to sustain you through your childhood? Those who have nothing to sustain them – and it doesn’t have to external, it can be some inner realisation I think (Dave Phelps –sp? - for eg) – those who have nothing…do they enjoy what they do? Do they ever enjoy anything? I’m not on their side! I'm trying to understand.

I’m haunted by reports from people who been eyeball to eyeball with the child soldiers of the Congo. Ten year old boys with Kalashnikovs, twitchy and ready to kill anyone for any reason, or no reason, with no reasoning or ‘normal’ emotions left. Brutalised and brutal. Those are the kids that really make me think (and feel); and they are terrorists too. Some people take the job of working with kids like that, trying to break down the walls in their heads. Incredible people eh? I think so. I admire people who would do that.

Anyway, feeling and thinking, yep, we do both, I guess what I meant is which one dominates in a person. Thinking dominates in me, I’m trying to recognise my feelings more but I do recognise that people are different and some feel more/first/differently than others.

Better go. Back in a few days. Take care all and be as safe as you wish and are able, but please take risks too – taking risks for the things we care about it is worth it I think.
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Sallying Forth on July 10, 2005, 07:50:12 PM: Quote from: Portia on July 09, 2005, 05:07:17 PM
GFN……Sela!

Quote
How can people behave like such animals?

Possibly the bus bombers blew themselves up in the process. Possibly they were suicide bombers? Suicide bombers do what they do sometimes to achieve paradise in heaven, I've heard. Their reward. They have a real motive to die. Incredible to me. But not really, mistreated children can be brainwashed into anything.

I read a book about the why of violence, Controlling People by Patricia Evans. The bottom line is perpetrators of violence can't relate to people with a true connection rather they relate through disconnection. They are terrified to be separate and protect themselves at all costs [attack others] so they wont be vulnerable. Evans calls it a backwards connection. She likens it to being in someone's mind thinking, believing, talking, etc. for the other person. "You should, would, must, could, do, did, shall, will, be, have, are, etc." Rather than normal communication, asking questions and listening. The god complex. When I hear someone speak this way to me the first thing that comes up is, "Who died and made you god?"

Quote
Quote
Trust our governments to handle it?
How useless is that???

I think it’s a bit like trusting our parents to do their very best for us. No, not a bit, a lot like that. A lot. Many people do trust their govts to handle things. And they’re trained by the state not to think for themselves. I do think that most people behave in some way like children some of the time. Especially when it comes to voting or other real ‘adult’ stuff! Governments are parents. The police are parents. etc etc.

It is useless to put your trust – your life – in someone else’s hands, unless you know them and trust them through knowledge of them through a close relationship. Do I trust any authority in the UK with my life? Nope. I’m just one in 66 million people and of no individual value (unless i do something to challenge the authority of the authorities....or alternatively, do something to make them look good, like winning a tinny Gold Medal ...... :P :D.)

Very useless! And not for me! I will never trust my government [US] and wherever its talons reach. I've been a pawn and puppet in their game so I know they can't be trusted.

I was on a mini-vacation with no news access so I didn't hear about the London bombings until late in the day on the 8th PST time. I was shocked and saddened.

My prayers and thoughts are with you.
Title: Re: Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,
Post by: Sela on July 11, 2005, 09:15:10 AM: Hello all:

Hey P:
Quote
I'm trying to understand.

I think I understand that children who are taught to behave like terrorists, will most often behave like terrorists. It's not that I don't understand how they get that way. I guess it's a bit like the chicken and the egg. Which came first? The terrorist or the terrorist's teacher?
I understand that these people have been molded but I don't like the mold.

And the feelings evoked in me by terrorist actions.....are clear. Yes, it was a good vent. Thanks P.

Quote
"Who died and made you god?"

Exactly ITexperiment! Terrorists play like the wrath of some God! As if it is their right to put that wrath into action! And they don't connect to their victims. They are sick individuals. I do pity them and I do pray for them.

But that doesn't dispell the sad, angry, fearful, helpless feelings I have when I hear of the harm they have caused. I can love them but not their behaviour. I guess that's what I'm saying. I can empathise with how they got to be where they are but I don't like it.

Quote
I've been a pawn and puppet in their game so I know they can't be trusted.

I'm so sorry this happened to you ITexperiment. Somehow, you have come through it without repeating the process. Somehow, you are not what they tried to make you.

You give me hope. :D

Sela