Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Bloopsy on September 19, 2005, 07:29:29 PM
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I closed the other topic about my therapist, and my wondering about her being somewhat unhealthy for me. I got afraid. i appreciate all the replies to my note about her. I got afraid and deleted the thread. But am just feeling still weird about it--- she always brings up her experiences---- I feel so bad. I don't want to critisize her.The replies to my post told me to run from my therapist. I do not understand. Maybe she tells me about her own experience so that I will feel less alone? But I get really confused sometimes, because then I sort of start to think of us as friends. She has helped me so much. Maybe I am just getting better and it is starting to make me feel uncomfortable the way she talks about her personal experience. Sometimes I get the sinking feeling that maybe she is trying to do one-upmanship or make sure that I know that she was just as damaged as me?I feel like she is always using her personal experience in the therapy, and I feel like it just doesn't always fit, we are two different people. Also she told me "your inner children need to know that they will "have " me for the rest of their lives". I felt really uncomfortable by that because she is a lot older than me and unless I die very early I will probably outlive her. I love her very much and I do not want to lose her .Also I feel like I must be a horrible person or something because her and the other man that I talk to always tell me to be honest and kwhatever and it seems like they don't like it when I pretend everything is okay, but then when I don't I feel like they get don't like it .
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I'm sorry for the confusing posts guys. Just confused!!!!!
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Well maybe the healthier you get, the more you see that things you previously thought were okay and now they are no longer okay?
A therapeutic relationship can never be a friendship. That is crossing a boundary.
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A therapeutic relationship can never be a friendship. That is crossing a boundary.
I agree 100%. I once had a therapist who claimed to be a friend. He did me a lot of damage, because of his confusion of the roles. Ultimately he accused me to other people of having inappropriate feelings for him, and this was devastating. His image of who I was was distorted beyond all recognition, and nearly drove me mad. I am very susceptible, and for a while (months) could not unravel who was right and who was wrong, because he was my therapist, and I thought he knew more than me ...
I would be very wary of this t, Bloopsy. If she cannot separate her own experiences from yours appropriately, then there is likely to be huge transference and projection going on, and any advice she gives you will be highly tainted. As in my situation.
I would say run as fast as you can. No therapist (difficult as that is!!) is better than a bad therapist.
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I closed the other topic about my therapist, and my wondering about her being somewhat unhealthy for me. I got afraid. i appreciate all the replies to my note about her. I got afraid and deleted the thread. But am just feeling still weird about it--- she always brings up her experiences---- I feel so bad. I don't want to critisize her.The replies to my post told me to run from my therapist. I do not understand. Maybe she tells me about her own experience so that I will feel less alone? But I get really confused sometimes, because then I sort of start to think of us as friends. She has helped me so much. Maybe I am just getting better and it is starting to make me feel uncomfortable the way she talks about her personal experience. Sometimes I get the sinking feeling that maybe she is trying to do one-upmanship or make sure that I know that she was just as damaged as me?I feel like she is always using her personal experience in the therapy, and I feel like it just doesn't always fit, we are two different people. Also she told me "your inner children need to know that they will "have " me for the rest of their lives". I felt really uncomfortable by that because she is a lot older than me and unless I die very early I will probably outlive her. I love her very much and I do not want to lose her .Also I feel like I must be a horrible person or something because her and the other man that I talk to always tell me to be honest and kwhatever and it seems like they don't like it when I pretend everything is okay, but then when I don't I feel like they get don't like it .
(((Bloopsy))) That doesn't sound kosher at all to me. What she should be telling you is that your inner children need to know is that they will have you, as an adult, taking care of them for the rest of their lives. The therapist is supposed to give us the tools to heal, not become part of our inner lives.
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Bloopsy,
Concur with SF. I too was in similar situation; it was so damaging that even years after it happened, the wounds are still so raw and I can’t even bring myself to talk about it. May be this kind of thing happens to N victims all the time because we are so used to treating others as God and ourselves as nothing. While it was happening, all I could feel was a vague feeling of uneasiness, nothing more. I too thought that the therapist was a "friend," was doing the disclosures for my sake etc. It started with pseudo friendship and ended in a disaster; since I trusted him as "friend" and also I lacked the ability to draw boundaries, the situation kept escalating. Worse, I did not even know that I was being abused, quite severely at that. Finally I ended therapy just because I knew that I must, without still quite admitting that I was being abused. That realization came months afterwards.
To think of your therapist as a friend is one of the worst things you can do for your self-esteem, because by doing so you are giving yourself the message that (1) you have to shell $$ to get yourself a friend! (2) your friend can talk about herself anytime she wants, but you don’t have the power or the right to ask her about her life (therapist disclosures are always at their discretion and they are in control.) (3) your friend has the right to talk about herself during your therapy hour, instead of you. (4) you are betraying yourself by undermining your hunches about this situation and second guessing yourself. (5) what you NEED from therapy is someone who’ll teach you boundaries, not someone who’ll violate them. That’s a crappy way to treat yourself!
Run as fast as you can! Presumably you can find a better therapist; may be you can even get a referral from this board.
Marta
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Thanks for your excellent posts and points, Marta and October. They really helped me understand that some people become therapists for some very sick reasons.
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A therapeutic relationship can never be a friendship. That is crossing a boundary.
I have to disagree with this. I consider my therapist a very good friend and that aspect of the relationship has been very helpful to my healing process. It has never been inappropriate, nor has he crossed any boundaries or ever made me uncomfortable. I firmly believe that when our professional relationship is finished, that we will remain lifelong friends. I have never felt like I was paying to have a friend.
I admit to having very limited experience with therapy and perhaps in most cases they shouldn't be friends, but maybe the term "never" is too strong.
Brigid
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I thought that we were friends in a weird way but I asked her and she said that we aren't " friends friends". I am so scared. I feel like the world is falling down. I have an appointment today. I don't know what to think. But I know that she helps me a lot of the time, there are just a few things that worry me.
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if there is anything going on it is very covert. But it seems like nothing should be going on even covertly. Loveb
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(((Bloopsy))) When I have been in therapy, I wanted a friendly and nurturing relationship with my therapist. but I can't imagine having one as a friend, as I define a friend. A therapist is an authority figure. You hire them to help you. You use their expertise to heal. When you are healthy, the relationship is over, other than the fact that you may run into them now and then.
A friend is a peer. I do things with my friends like talk on the phone, go out to eat, we help eachother out, maybe give eachother rides or help eachother move, exchange books and recipes, see films together, go for hikes, and hang out at eachothers houses. I have never done any of that with my therapists.
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I sort of feel like if she fits all these guidelines of what is wrong to do in therapy that she must be doing something wrong. It just seems like there is something wrong with her talking about her relationship to me. One time I was worried that my wedding dress was too "sleazy" and she asked me " is it as sleazy as that shirt you are wearing?" That felt like cruelty. I might just be having some kind of delusion. I don't know what to think. She has been the closest person to me for about four years. Thank you so much for supporting me.
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That felt like cruelty.
Yes, that's definitely a put down and your therapist should never use that tone with you.
I have been in your situation, and I felt really concerned for you. So to get a better idea of where you are at, I tried to look up your past posts on the board; hope you don’t mind.
Anyway, I found you had posted things like you talk to your therapist every day, and you are afraid that you are a narcissist and a creep! You also said that your therapist says that you have narcissistic tendencies. Which tendencies do you have that you think are narcissistic? May be instead of just assuming things about yourself or taking someone else’s word about it, you can slowly examine them yourself?
You are NOTHING like a narcissist, and not a creep either. If after four years of therapy, if you are still afraid that you are a narcissist, if you feel you are a “horrible person because of her” (i.e. your therapist), then could it possibly be that this therapy may be helping you to survive on a day to day basis, but not helping you very much to get better?
I can understand your being afraid. You have been close to her and she has been your main source of support all these years. However, it is really good that you are asking these questions, and putting them out there where others can share their experiences too. Just take it slowly and mull over things.
In the meantime, take care of yourself…..
Hugs, Marta
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I thought that we were friends in a weird way but I asked her and she said that we aren't " friends friends". I am so scared. I feel like the world is falling down. I have an appointment today. I don't know what to think. But I know that she helps me a lot of the time, there are just a few things that worry me.
Interesting ... that is exactly how my therapeutic relationship was with my third therapist.
When I got healthier I began to question her tactics and motives more and more. It wasn't until I started reading up on things that I realized she was a N. She also wanted my little ones within to rely on her. Thankfully they never did. I "mothered" my own little ones and that is the healthy way.
That t wanted me to become dependent on her. Sick, sick, sick.
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That felt like cruelty. I might just be having some kind of delusion.
You sound perfectly sane to me. That was cruel!
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:(
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Sallying Forth, would you mind telling me a little more about your therapist/ what went on or how you dealt with it-- anything that does not make you uncomfortable?? I really have become dependant on her but now I don't trust anything with that anymore. Maybe it will start to sink in. I admit that I feel really used and manipulated and like I have sort of lost the last four years of my life with her even though at the same time she has helped me so much.
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I really have become dependant on her but now I don't trust anything with that anymore. Maybe it will start to sink in. I admit that I feel really used and manipulated and like I have sort of lost the last four years of my life with her even though at the same time she has helped me so much.
Bravo!!!!!!You go girl...........
Identification and admission of a problem is half the battle won. What I really like about it is that rather than taking on all the blame on yourself or just trying to figure out her behavior, you are finally expressing your own feelings about all this.
Tough as the going may be for you right now, hang in there.........Me thinks you have taken a great leap!
Marta
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(((Bloopsy)))
That comment about your shirt was unprofessional, cruel and uncalled for. You are not delusional.
I can think of about only three instances where appearance might come up. One would be where someone is dressing provacatively and wonders why men keep hitting on her. The second would be if someone was terribly dishevelled and had body odor and wondered why people seemed to avoid her. The third might be if someone who has never worked needed advice for dressing appropriately for a job interview. In all three cases, tactful discussion, not negative judgement, would be in order.
I don't think that you have lost or wasted the last four years of your life though. It sounds as if you have gained enough health and perspective to be at the point of graduation from this particular therapist.
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A therapeutic relationship can never be a friendship. That is crossing a boundary.
I have to disagree with this. I consider my therapist a very good friend and that aspect of the relationship has been very helpful to my healing process. It has never been inappropriate, nor has he crossed any boundaries or ever made me uncomfortable. I firmly believe that when our professional relationship is finished, that we will remain lifelong friends. I have never felt like I was paying to have a friend.
I admit to having very limited experience with therapy and perhaps in most cases they shouldn't be friends, but maybe the term "never" is too strong.
Brigid
Hi Brigid,
Let me clarify, developing a friendship DURING the psychotherapeutic relationship is never acceptable.
http://www.advocateweb.org/hope/boundariesinrelationships.asp Boundaries in Professional Relationships
Excerpt from article:
Social Involvement Scale, which included the following items:
Became friends with client after termination
Disclosed details of your current personal stresses to a client.
Invited clients to an office/clinic open house
Went out to eat with a client after a session
Invited clients to a personal party or social event
Borys (1988) also found considerable variability within the psychotherapy fields (psychology, social work, psychiatry) as to what is deemed acceptable in a number of areas. For example, therapists' responses to the following boundaries questions yielded the following very varied opinions:
Accept a gift under $ 10: 19.5% never, 53% several, 10.4% all clients
Accept invitation to client's special event: 50% never, 22% few, 3.4% some
Becoming friends after termination: 65% never, 23% few, 3.3% several clients
Treating an employee: 57% never, 12.8% few, 3% some clients
Disclose own stresses to client: 59% never, 26.8% few, 9.7% some, 1.3% many
Invite to open house: 50% never, 5.7% few, 6.7% some, 2.7% many, 3.4% all
Depending on the school of therapy one belongs to a particular boundary may be more or less important. For a behaviorist to visit a client's home to perform an en-vivo desensitization may be quite proper, whereas for a psychoanalyst to make a home visit might be a boundary crossing.
he Zone of Helpfulness
In the 1950's and 1960's concern was about genuineness, warmth, and "connecting with the client." Researcher's studied these things and their impact on therapy and counseling. By the mid-1970's into the 1980's the concerns were about intrusiveness, exploitation, and abuse -- all seen as a consequence of over-involvement. Studies have shown that either extreme can be harmful.
Zone of Helpfulness Range From:
Distant/cold/formal/aloof
My therapist didn't care.
I should have left therapy.
I never felt support or caring.
To:
Intrusive/over-involved
My therapist tried to run my life.
My therapist had sex with me.
My therapist wanted to be my mentor.
The key is to be somewhere in the Zone of Helpfulness, whether one tends to be more formal, or one tends to be more emotionally involved or in greater physical contact.
Excessive self-disclosure is the single most common precursor to therapist-client sex:
Disclosing current personal needs or problems;
Disclosure as common, rather than rare event, during sessions;
Disclosing things not clearly connected to client's problems or experiences; or not clearly things which would be likely to encourage or support client;
Self-disclosure not only frequent, but uses up more than a few minutes in a session;
Self-disclosure occurs despite apparent client confusion or romantization.
For Colleagues or Supervisors (Psychotherapists)
Some areas which require watchfulness are:
Obvious therapist distress or upset
Therapeutic drift -- shifting style and approach to a given client
Lack of goals and reflection on progress in therapy
Therapy which exceeds normal length for a client of that type in the particular therapist's practice.
Exceeding areas of competence, reluctance to refer for other therapy, assessment, etc.
Unwise techniques:
Routine hugs
Face to face, intimate hugs
Excessive touch
Sessions in non-traditional setting when this isn't necessary
Adult clients on lap
Routine or common socializing with clients
Excessive self-disclosure by therapist
Direct intervention in client's life
Becoming enmeshed in client's life -- treating close friends or family members
Unique vulnerabilities:
Attraction
Over-identification with client
Uniquely similar family dynamics
Divorce or loss in therapist's life
Identity disturbance in therapist
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http://www.advocateweb.org/hope/codesofethics.asp
I thought I would post this too. It lists codes of ethics for:
psychotherapists
social workers
doctors
lawyers
pastoral counselors
marriage and family therapists
sociologists
Canadian Mental Health Association
Respiratory Therapists
Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Counselors
Certified Counselors
clergy
This is mainly for the U.S.
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http://www.aamft.org/resources/LRMPlan/Ethics/ethicscode2001.asp
American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy Web Site Ethics Code.
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Thanks for those ethics posts-- it was helpful to me to read them, both in my own profession and in professional relationships.
I agree that feeling friendly toward a therapist is good-- but being actual friends is potentially quite harmful. Maybe not always always, but it just seems like a dangerous boundary to cross.
Bloopsy, can you possibly broach all of this with her, carefully? Then post here if you feel like it? It would be easier to tell what is happening if we knew her reaction to your concerns-- if her reaction is in any way defensive or manipulative or (worst) if she denies what you are feeling, then you have your answer-- run away.
I worry that she talks about herself in therapy. In my experience, that is rare, and only happens when the client is basically saying "no one feels the way I do" or "what I am feeling/doing is abnormal" or if the client asks directly about the therapist's experience (perhaps as a role model type deal). And that would just be one little anecdote or whatever (e.g., others do feel that way; I have felt that way myself on xyz occasion). If the therapist is volunteering personal stories in a sort of friendly give and take like people have over a beer, then.... yuck. That is completely inappropriate. She is asking for something from her client-- a BIG no-no and potentially really harmful to the victim of past N behavior.
I think it's possible that finding the voice to really discuss this with her might be the most therapeutic part of the therapy thus far, whether you leave or not.
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these are some things that are really disturbing to me--- in therapy.
List of weird boundary invasions in my therapy
1. she lets me attend a course she teaches for free
2. she talks about her relationship with her husband with me.
3. We exchange little gifts.
4. She has said that she loves me.
5. THerapy takes place in her house, with her bed prominently visible.
5. She has commented on my appearance, and I know that she she has said she thinks I am pretty and has also said that my recent weight loss"looks good" . This makes me feel uncomfortable especially because I know that she does not think that she is pretty she has told me that.
6. I remember that early on she warned me not to do things the way that other people do them because I was trying to find myself-- that was her response when i felt inspired by another woman burning insence while she cleaned and said that I was going to do that--- I felt that this was discouraging. She later went on to tell me all about how SHE does things, including some of the ways that she "got " her relationship with her husband, when I did not even ask.
7. Vunil, I talked to her yeterday. I told her that it was not good for me when she self discloses or talk about her other clients during my session. She said okay she would not do that anymore. I felt a sense of relief like finally my therapy would be just about me, and not her and me with her issues mixed in with mine til I felt like they were blurred and nuts . I felt a lot more separate, but wondered what we would talk about. tThen she went against her word a few minutes later to tell me about her other client who would always ask her questions about herself( my therapist) , and that she did not tell that other client about herself because she could tell that that other client was trying to make her into a mother that way. Previously in our session I had told her that my inner children would miss hearing about her, and her response was that they could always ask her questions. She has no children of her own. Later I realised that she had done the exact thing I had told her was unhealthy for me about 5 minutes later or so. I talked to her again and was really angry. She admitted that she had "f---ed up" . She said that that was so much a part of her "style" that she did not know if she would be able to stop it right away but said that she would not be hurt if I kept calling her on it because she knows who she is and has a good sense of self and is not trying to turn me into her. hmmm.
8. She wanted to treat my twin sister.
I do not know if this is as horrible as it seems to me which it seems that I have ben serving a big giant need of hers for five long years.
Thank you for listening the top half of my post is deleted --- it was too icky. I talked to her about it and that was really confusing Vunil. That is what happened on number 7.
9. She encouraged me to do my rage work by pounding on a pillow, on her bed.
10. She discouraged me from giving gifts to others, or being giving in general. That was called codependance. She encouraged me to make drawings for her. I was not supposed to do things for anyone else because that was codependant. I have come to be very withholding, under the impression that that was healthier. but it does not feel healthier, but am going to change that now. She is the only person who I have made or bought a gift for in quite a long time and that makes me feel really icky. I used to make gifts for people a lot and I really miss that.
This is an edited post, I apologize for my other long and confusing posts. Thank you for all the encouragement and information and stuff. I feel like it helps me with this icky problem a lot.
After I confronted her about doing that thing where she said that she would no longer make MY therapy about her or her other clients, and then five minutes later she was back to that, she seemed to compensate for whatever rift in the relationship by starting to say "we"when she means either me, or her or everyone I don't know. She used to do that all the time and now I guess she is picking it up again in order to blur the lines between us again. I know in my heart that I amnot lying.I would really appreciate anything you guys may think of theset things Love Bloopsy rose.
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well I guess it is pretty obvious that something is really really wrong. I guess I wonder how to handle it or recover from this, but know that I will. LoveB
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Sally,
Hi Brigid,
Let me clarify, developing a friendship DURING the psychotherapeutic relationship is never acceptable.
Thank you for clarifying. I'm sure he would agree and would never suggest a "friendly encounter" while he was still seeing me professionally. My therapist is also the head priest of an Episcopal church in the area that I'm strongly considering joining as I think I will be leaving the Catholic church (which I converted to for my ex) now that my children are finished with the sacraments. I have heard from members of that parish what a wonderful priest he is, but I have not as yet checked it out.
Bloopsy,
Hearing you describe what your T has asked of you, required of you, etc., is disturbing. If I was in your shoes, I would be very uncomfortable. Good for you to find your voice and use it. Hold your ground and don't let her manipulate you. Now that you are stronger, perhaps you can go in search of a new therapist who can bring you to the next level of healing. I wish you well.
Blessings,
Brigid
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A therapeutic relationship can never be a friendship. That is crossing a boundary.
I have to disagree with this. I consider my therapist a very good friend and that aspect of the relationship has been very helpful to my healing process. It has never been inappropriate, nor has he crossed any boundaries or ever made me uncomfortable. I firmly believe that when our professional relationship is finished, that we will remain lifelong friends. I have never felt like I was paying to have a friend.
I admit to having very limited experience with therapy and perhaps in most cases they shouldn't be friends, but maybe the term "never" is too strong.
Brigid
I thought that with my first therapist, and he hurt me really badly. I hope you do not experience the same kind of thing, but be careful, just in case. In some ways it depends what you mean by friend. The t should be an ally, but other than that, there is little to have in common with any other friendship, imo.
The idea now of having a 'lifelong friendship' with a therapist would be a very scarey one to me.
Therapy cannot be friendship because the power balance is wrong. All the power is with the therapist, wheras in friendship it is mutual and shared. The same goes for the direction of the therapy.
And a further dynamic is that of incest. Where the therapist oversteps the mark, there are incestuous overtones, because the relationship is one parallel to that of parent: child.
A final aspect would be that of discrepancy of intimacy. He knows everything about you; you know very little about him. To redress this balance would be inappropriate. To maintain it would not be friendship, which involves mutual sharing of knowledge, and a similar mutual level of intimacy, imo.
Sorry, not thinking very well today. That kind of thing. :?
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Yesterday I had an intake session to start therapy for possible PTSD. The therapist assigned to me is a lovely lady and very friendly. She told me that, due to the type of abuse I am seeking therapy for (my X is a cop and likely has full blown NPD) it was important that she *NOT* come across to me as an authority figure. This surprised me indeed, but she explained (in my own words as my memory for the meaning is better than that for the exact words) that the last thing I needed was any further exposure to feeling I might be regarded as "less" than someone else. The truth is, we ARE peers and she could come to me for my professional services as I have come to her for hers - and we have no reson to be on anything other than friendly and equal terms. She further explained that she is very much a feminist and believes in equality, and that we are entering into a partnership of sorts where she will learn from me (she is working toward her Ph.D) and I will learn from her. It does seem that we could indeed develop a friendship outside of the theraputic relationship, though out of respect, I would not push for a genuine close friendship during the therapy period... until then, perhaps a close acquaintainship and friendly interest?
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Ariel,I think that you really need to make sure with yourself that the things that she is sharing with you actually are helping, and not designed to elevete her or make her the center of the therapy in ANY way??
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October,
I appreciate your words of caution and I know you have had some very difficult experiences with therapists in the past. It is hard for me to put into words the exact feelings that I have for and about my T, and I know that if I said how I really feel, it would be met some with some strong criticism from members of this board. This is my only long-term therapeutic experience. I know I would not have stuck with it if I had not been totally comfortable from day one, felt safe and cared for. My T and I have a great caring for each other in a brother-sister (probably more likely father-daughter in my case) kind of way. He watched my life unravel before his eyes as he was trying to save my marriage, and he has made it his goal to put the pieces back together. I have said before that if I could no longer afford his services, he would continue to see me for free. Because of his religious background in addition to PhD in Psychology, he has helped me to bring God more actively into my life, which has also been very helpful in healing.
This probably makes you uncomfortable, October, and I can understand that based on your past experiences. I can assure you that there has never been a hint of impropriety in the 2 years I have been seeing him and I am at a very healthy place now and would be capable of recognizing that. He has brought me to such an understanding of the affects of my FOO and how that affected my choice of life partners. He is so happy for my happiness right now.
I could go on and on, but essentially, I am just very grateful to this man for giving me my life back. I know I could not have done it without his guidance and would have ended up repeating the same mistakes I have made in the past. Maybe we can't ever truly be friends. That concept makes me sad, but I guess it remains to be seen. I have never felt an imbalance in our power structure even though, as you say, he knows much more about me than I know about him. He is a consumate professional, so I will take my lead from him as to how our relationship will continue at the conclusion of therapy, if at all.
Brigid
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Yesterday I had an intake session to start therapy for possible PTSD. The therapist assigned to me is a lovely lady and very friendly. She told me that, due to the type of abuse I am seeking therapy for (my X is a cop and likely has full blown NPD) it was important that she *NOT* come across to me as an authority figure. This surprised me indeed, but she explained (in my own words as my memory for the meaning is better than that for the exact words) that the last thing I needed was any further exposure to feeling I might be regarded as "less" than someone else. The truth is, we ARE peers and she could come to me for my professional services as I have come to her for hers - and we have no reson to be on anything other than friendly and equal terms. She further explained that she is very much a feminist and believes in equality, and that we are entering into a partnership of sorts where she will learn from me (she is working toward her Ph.D) and I will learn from her. It does seem that we could indeed develop a friendship outside of the theraputic relationship, though out of respect, I would not push for a genuine close friendship during the therapy period... until then, perhaps a close acquaintainship and friendly interest?
Hi Ariel, I have to say that I think being a colleague in healing is a great approach. I would not have done very well with someone that was playing an Olympian Goddess either. Therapy is a partnership, but the therapist is the leader of that partnership. There will be times that she will have to be an authority, although that should be done in a friendly, caring and non-threatening way. The reason for this is that a good therapist has to confront their clients on things like negative thinking, destructive behavior, being stuck in repetitive patterns. To do otherwise is codependent on the part of therapist.
Frankly, I am sure every therapist learns much from each of their clients. I am not sure how wise this was of this lady to bring this up as a precursor to her PHD. I would feel uneasy knowing that I might be a project. What happens after she finishes the PHD? Will she be around for the long haul if you need her or will you be passed to somebody else?
JMHO, not wise to exchange professional services or be friends afterwards. There is a huge difference between friendship and friendly.
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October,
I appreciate your words of caution and I know you have had some very difficult experiences with therapists in the past. It is hard for me to put into words the exact feelings that I have for and about my T, and I know that if I said how I really feel, it would be met some with some strong criticism from members of this board. This is my only long-term therapeutic experience. I know I would not have stuck with it if I had not been totally comfortable from day one, felt safe and cared for. My T and I have a great caring for each other in a brother-sister (probably more likely father-daughter in my case) kind of way. He watched my life unravel before his eyes as he was trying to save my marriage, and he has made it his goal to put the pieces back together. I have said before that if I could no longer afford his services, he would continue to see me for free. Because of his religious background in addition to PhD in Psychology, he has helped me to bring God more actively into my life, which has also been very helpful in healing.
This probably makes you uncomfortable, October, and I can understand that based on your past experiences. I can assure you that there has never been a hint of impropriety in the 2 years I have been seeing him and I am at a very healthy place now and would be capable of recognizing that. He has brought me to such an understanding of the affects of my FOO and how that affected my choice of life partners. He is so happy for my happiness right now.
I could go on and on, but essentially, I am just very grateful to this man for giving me my life back. I know I could not have done it without his guidance and would have ended up repeating the same mistakes I have made in the past. Maybe we can't ever truly be friends. That concept makes me sad, but I guess it remains to be seen. I have never felt an imbalance in our power structure even though, as you say, he knows much more about me than I know about him. He is a consumate professional, so I will take my lead from him as to how our relationship will continue at the conclusion of therapy, if at all.
Brigid
Hi Brigid, That feeling of being cared about the way a loving parent (Dad) would care about a daughter is positive transference. It is a good thing when we feel safe enough to be nurtured in the therapeutic relationship. It's possible to have feelings of deep love and appreciation for a terrific therapist. I had three wonderful therapists that I think about often and have feelings of appreciation for...they helped me out of a dark and desperate place.
It's more common to see someone continue therapy without funds in private or religiously based work than in a group practice or an agency. It's very important though that the client does not develop a sense of personal obligation to the therapist because of that.
I would say that the man you are seeing is absolutely a professional with great boundaries. Should you go to his church, he would be your priest, too...which is also an authority figure.
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these are some things that are really disturbing to me--- in therapy.
List of weird boundary invasions in my therapy
1. she lets me attend a course she teaches for free
2. she talks about her relationship with her husband with me.
3. We exchange little gifts.
4. She has said that she loves me.
5. THerapy takes place in her house, with her bed prominently visible.
5. She has commented on my appearance, and I know that she she has said she thinks I am pretty and has also said that my recent weight loss"looks good" . This makes me feel uncomfortable especially because I know that she does not think that she is pretty.
6. I remember that early on she warned me not to do things the way that other people do them because I was trying to find myself-- that was her response when i felt inspired by another woman burning insence while she cleaned and said that I was going to do that--- I felt that this was discouraging. She later went on to tell me all about how SHE does things, including some of the ways that she "got " her relationship with her husband, when I did not even ask.
7. Vunil, I talked to her yeterday. I told her that it was not good for me when she self discloses or talk about her other clients during my session. She said okay she would not do that anymore. I felt a sense of relief like finally my therapy would be just about me, and not her and me with her issues mixed in with mine til I felt like they were blurred and nuts . I felt a lot more separate, but wondered what we would talk about. tThen she went against her word a few minutes later to tell me about her other client who would always ask her questions about herself( my therapist) , and that she did not tell that other client about herself because she could tell that that other client was trying to make her into a mother that way. Previously in our session I had told her that my inner children would miss hearing about her, and her response was that they could always ask her questions. She has no children of her own. Later I realised that she had done the exact thing I had told her was unhealthy for me about 5 minutes later or so. I talked to her again and was really angry. She admitted that she had "f---ed up" . She said that that was so much a part of her "style" that she did not know if she would be able to stop it right away but said that she would not be hurt if I kept calling her on it because she knows who she is and has a good sense of self and is not trying to turn me into her. hmmm.
8. She wanted to treat my twin sister.
I do not know if this is as horrible as it seems to me which it seems that I have ben serving a big giant need of hers for five long years.
Thank you for listening the top half of my post is deleted --- it was too icky. I talked to her about it and that was really confusing Vunil. That is what happened on number 7.
9. She encouraged me to do my rage work by pounding on a pillow, on her bed.
10. She discouraged me from giving gifts to others, or being giving in general. That was called codependance. She encouraged me to make drawings for her. I was not supposed to do things for anyone else because that was codependant. I have come to be very withholding, under the impression that that was healthier. but it does not feel healthier, but am going to change that now. She is the only person who I have made or bought a gift for in quite a long time and that makes me feel really icky. I used to make gifts for people a lot and I really miss that.
This is an edited post, I apologize for my other long and confusing posts. Thank you for all the encouragement and information and stuff. I feel like it helps me with this icky problem a lot.
After I confronted her about doing that thing where she said that she would no longer make MY therapy about her or her other clients, and then five minutes later she was back to that, she seemed to compensate for whatever rift in the relationship by starting to say "we"when she means either me, or her or everyone I don't know. She used to do that all the time and now I guess she is picking it up again in order to blur the lines between us again. I know in my heart that I amnot lying.I would really appreciate anything you guys may think of theset things Love Bloopsy rose. P.S> I feel that she was trying to lure my sister into therapy with her so that she could abuse her too. One time she asked in her wierd dreamy voice that I now am starting to feel is really creepy "did your mom dress you alike when you were children? By the way, that was one of the only questions she asked me about my twin sister during the course of the five year therapy whatever that we had. I think that is a creepy question to choose to ask out of all the questions in the world.
(((Bloopsy))) My hinky meter is off the charts here.
One thing that raised my hackles is the fact you saw somebody doing a very self-nurturing thing by burning incense during housework. When you said you wanted to try it, which seems perfectly healthy to me, she told you not to. That seems awfully N to me. The fact is that it is healthy to notice what other people do to meet their needs and try to incorporate new ideas and practices into our daily lives.
The fact the bed is visible is way out of bounds. The bed is the most intimate piece of furniture someone owns.
Talking about herself or other clients is not ok, other than to establish commonality. For instance, if I tell my T something and ask her if I am wierd for whatever I have told her, it is reassuring to know that other people have felt or thought that too...and also what the mechanism might be if it is something that is serving to keep me stuck.
I am a recovering alcoholic. Two of my therapists, who both had backgrounds in Chemical Dependency and co-dependency, were also recovering alcoholics. They didn't tell me much about themselves, but it came up before I even signed up with them....and it was helpful to me to know that they knew where I was coming from. In fact, the first woman I saw, Anne, had a very similar drinking history to mine; she was a late onset drinker and drank for six years...which is unusual. My intake interview was with someone else who kept trying to tell me that I was an alcoholic in my teens....actually, I was a very light social drinker who started drinking like a fish at age 34. The intake person couldn't understand that and she just irritated the hell out of me because she was basing her judgement on the typical pattern of alcoholism, including her own. Anne, who had started drinking in her fifties, could understand that I started drinking heavily at age 34, hated to get drunk, and stopped at age 40...because her experience was similar. She explained to me that I carried the alcoholic gene but that it had been triggered later than most people....and she could relate.
Because of Anne's particular background, she could quickly establish that I had good sobriety, that I was not in denial about my drinking and that we could move on to my codependency and PTSD issues. If I had been seeing the intake person, we would have had a blowup because she was trying to put my square peg of atypical drinking in the round hole of typical early onset alcoholism. We would have wasted a boatload of time arguing about denial and the quality of my sobriety, which was not the issue. The issue was that I was a raving co-dependent and needed a ton of help to heal and have good recovery.
That thing about your twin is bizarre....I really question her motivation in asking the question the way she did. Had she said that sometimes twins have identity issues because of being treated as a package instead of individuals, it would have been much healthier. It sounded instead if she was having some kind of fantasy.
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October,
I appreciate your words of caution and I know you have had some very difficult experiences with therapists in the past. It is hard for me to put into words the exact feelings that I have for and about my T, and I know that if I said how I really feel, it would be met some with some strong criticism from members of this board. This is my only long-term therapeutic experience. I know I would not have stuck with it if I had not been totally comfortable from day one, felt safe and cared for. My T and I have a great caring for each other in a brother-sister (probably more likely father-daughter in my case) kind of way.
I appreciate that your situation is not the same as mine.
I may not be able to comment further, or even read your posts, because this therapist I had was my Vicar at the time, in the Anglican Church, which is our version of Episcopalian. Maybe with vicars they think it is ok to blur the lines.
I thought so too, then, but I would not think so any more, after the damage that Michael did to me. He used our sessions more and more to talk about himself and his family problems. In the end, he spread lies about me to anyone who would listen. As an example, he read selected parts of a letter I sent him to a mutual friend, to prove that I was in love with him. He read out 'I love you, Michael'. He did not read the next line, which said; 'I would never do anything to hurt you, or (wife's name) or your girls. Why would I want to do that?'
Fortunately for me, I had already given a copy of the full letter to this friend, as a kind of safety net. Just as well, in the event. So he was able to help me from a complete breakdown, but I came very close. And Michael just walked away.
All I can say is that I would have said the same things during the therapy as you are saying. I was friends with Michael, and his wife and children. I took his daughters to the seaside with mine. When it was their wedding anniversary, I made a cake for the party in our Church hall, and then another one for his induction to his new church. I thought this was friendship, but I was mistaken. It was always about power, and he had it all.
Sorry, I had better not go too far into reliving this one. I am sure your minister is different.
I do have a friend who is a minister, and who is a very good friend to me (mostly, although he has his thoughtless moments too!!), so it can be done. But I could never again have a minister as a therapist of any kind.
I wish you well on your journey, though, and I am happy for you. And rather envious. I cannot now attend church because of agoraphobia, in part brought on by my experiences over the years with one abusive therapist after another. Inter alia.
Peace be with you.
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amethyst, I am planning to change my phone number. Thank you so much for the hug I sure need it . (((amethyst)))
she knows my adress. I don't want her icky stuff anymore. I feel so sorry for her. Thank you for your note. I can relate to being an alchoholic but not having a typical drinking story and how being able to relate to someone around that is really important. "raving codependant" what a way to put it1!!!!!I've never heard that one before!!!
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amethyst, I am planning to change my phone number. Thank you so much for the hug I sure need it . (((amethyst)))
she knows my adress. I don't want her icky stuff anymore. I feel so sorry for her. Thank you for your note. I can relate to being an alchoholic but not having a typical drinking story and how being able to relate to someone around that is really important. "raving codependant" what a way to put it1!!!!!I've never heard that one before!!!
(((Bloopsy)))
If you tell her that you don't want to see her anymore and are looking for another therapist, do you think she will let you go without calling? Are you going to tell her and put closure to it...or are you going to disappear? Do you think that she will show up at your house? :shock: I know it takes a great deal of courage to do it, but to avoid misunderstandings, it might be better to tell her.
I have fired therapists before and didn't change my phone number. If she cannot let you go, which would be awfully sick, then you may need to. At this point, I would do as little as possible to inconvenience myself...only if necessary.
Yeah, I was a raving codependent...lol. I lived through and for other people and had no idea how to get my needs met in a healthy way. It was an awful way to live, confusing, painful, chaotic...bad boundaries. It's good to be mostly on the other side of that. I still get into some codependent pickles now and then, but I find that I can get out of them much more quickly.
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October,
I just can't find the right words to express how I feel about your story or all that you have had to suffer. He ought to have his license revoked.
Hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs,
Marta
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Dear October,
I am so sorry about your horrible experiences. You are such a sweet person and you inspire me with your compassion. I send you a nice warm cloud of happy comforting marshmallow comfort.
from bloosy r
"I cannot now attend church because of agoraphobia, in part brought on by my experiences over the years with one abusive therapist after another. Inter alia. "
:x :x :x
((((( :)October :)))))))) surrounded by little smiles.
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Bloopsy, I just caught up with this thread and I have to say you sound wonderful! Not your situation (ickky) but YOU.
You sound powerful and centered.
This thing with your therapist sounds wrong to lots of us, but YOUR opinion is the one that matters. You sought support here for a concern and you know that your opinion is what matters most, not what this person may have done for you in the past, or what anyone else might say about this. You know to trust yourself....that is huge.
You recognize that you have boundaries and are uncomfortable (gee whiz, I sure would be, too) and that is ENOUGH. That is all you need to dump this therapist completely, and (if you want to) even file a grievance of some kind. This is your life, no one else's and you are in charge. Bless you, Bloopsy....you are an awesome woman.
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Thank you mum. I admit that I have not felt this centered ever at all. It sort of feels that maybe being restored to life --- maybe I had never been here forever, and with a right to be here too.
P.S. You are awesome too hee hee :D
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Hi. I am starting to feel really weird and afraid. I feel like I am starting to blame myself. I really feel like maybe my therapist tried to turn me into her or something. ------last night I called her and felt like I was haivng this thing where I was the one who had abused her by being so dependant on her--- and felt that she had amde me into a person or something. I was wondering if you guys know of if there is any sort of expert on this thing. if she really was not the perfect and wonderful, or at least kind and caring, therapist that I thought she was, she did me a lot of harm and I feel like she is very dangerous and I am even getting scared that her name and the name of a man that she refered me to for treatment, also begin with the letter D as in Devil. Sometimes in my program, when people talk about being abused by their therapists, or they read out a line in the preamble "some of us are still being abused", Yesterday I called her and told her that I missed her, and she told me something like "You are a poster girl for recovery". I just felt like I didn't believe her at all. Yesterday, I called a number that I had re
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Hi Bloopsy, I have to agree about you sounding stronger!
I would like to remind you that YOU are the one who has healed yourself. A good therapist or counselor can be a tremendous support and wonderful guide, but you are the only one who can do the work and make the changes to grow.
Also, your therapist may have been what you needed (or not!) during the previous period of your recovery. Maybe she is not what you need right now in order to take your next step. Maybe she is. You are the only one who can decide. Heck, maybe deciding whether to leave or find someone else or not IS your next step right now.
My first T helped me *tremendously* with many things. Getting out of depression. Terrible fear of people and speking (now you can't get me to shut up!) Unfortunately, he seemed to be in denial or to have some sort of hangup about my relationship with my wife. He wasn't able to help me with that before, and he wasn't able to help recently either. Maybe that is because of my issues, maybe that is because of his issues. When that was the main issue for me earlier this year, he just wasn't able to help. From that I learned that I can (and did) choose another therapist, without any catastrophic problems. It took some effort and time to find someone who I felt comfortable with, but having a T to talk to who is not trying to prove that I'm wrong about what has been going on makes it so much easier to talk about what is going on in my life and how I can change to handle things better.
Find someone who is best for what you need right now. Maybe that is the person you are already seeing. I have to agree with other here who get a spooky feeling about your current T. Still, you have all the power and get to make all your own decisions.
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Bloopsy, I just caught up with this thread and I have to say you sound wonderful! Not your situation (ickky) but YOU.
You sound powerful and centered.
Bless you, Bloopsy....you are an awesome woman.
That is absolutely true. We are seeing a new side of you, Bloopsy, and it is wonderful!!!!!
xxxx
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Bloopsy,
I apologize, one of my problems is that my attention span has gone out the window, so my post yesterday did not end up addressing what I had intended, and what I said was rather invalidating as I got confused and quit before I got finished with my initial thoughts. :( . What I had thought I was going to tell you is that I am delighted to be working with a friendly T that I do feel I could go on to be friends with in the future - HOWEVER - in your case things sound really out of whack and inappropriate! So I concur with the others on this board that think you have been in a T relationship with someone that does not respect theraputic boundaries. So good to read of your strength in being able to speak to your T on those issues!
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Amethyst,
Thanks for your concern about my T. There is nothing inappropriate: my therapy is through a university research clinic, so I came in knowing 1) it will be a short-term therapy (specific to the PTSD) 2) after my T finishes her phD she returns to her native country so I will not be able to continue with my T for an indefinate period anyway, and 3) others will be learning form our sessions as well. Much better to know such things up front, I have in the past started therapy only to recieve notice after a short time that the entire practise was being moved to a far off town it would have been difficult for me to get to!
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Hi. I am starting to feel really weird and afraid.
Hi, Bloopsy. Hang in there. Very few people (therapists included) are completely "bad". It's ok to have ambiguous feelings about her right now. My first husband was pretty bad for me, but I have two amazing children that I would not have without my relationship with him.... Plus, I learned how to stick up for myself because of him.
I wouldn't read too much into being called the poster child of recovery.....heck, I think you're doing pretty well, also! It's just that this is all new, this trusting yourself, this listening to yourself and believing you are worthy of your own trust. So it's bound to be shaky at first.
I know when I started paying attention to what was going on in my head as far as what controlled my behavoir, it was new territory to say "what I think matters.....not my reaction or anticipation of other's approval/dissaproval."
I would tell people that and they would rarely get how HUGE that was for me.....
The "D" thing I understand, but you can decide how much importance you want to place on that. Maybe it's as simple as:
there was a time for her in your life, and now you are moving on. No need to attach anything else to that. I know it may feel like "breaking up" with someone, but if she is TRULY your supporter and interested in your happiness and health, she will not be all attached to you and "hurt". Granted, you probably don't want to abandon therapy, (sounds like you are well supported elsewhere) but you might just need to get away from her for a bit, and anyone she recommends.
You are doing great.
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Amethyst,
Thanks for your concern about my T. There is nothing inappropriate: my therapy is through a university research clinic, so I came in knowing 1) it will be a short-term therapy (specific to the PTSD) 2) after my T finishes her phD she returns to her native country so I will not be able to continue with my T for an indefinate period anyway, and 3) others will be learning form our sessions as well. Much better to know such things up front, I have in the past started therapy only to recieve notice after a short time that the entire practise was being moved to a far off town it would have been difficult for me to get to!
Something like that happened to me too. I was seeing this terrific young shrink for my ADHD meds and some ADHD coaching...I just loved the guy; he was from Syria and was so funny, friendly and kind. He had such a positive approach and was the most helpful psychiatrist I have ever seen. Suddenly the whole practice split up and the docs ended up in different countries. :(
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Thank you guys for reassuring me not to see my therapist as completely bad or the therapy as wasted. I really appreciate the encouragement that I can go on with life and that this is a stage in my growth. Deep down I admit that I feel horribley violated and manipulated though with a sinking sensation that it was all my fault and guilt for having got anything good out of it at all, but at the same time like maybe if I try not to blame myself that it will be okay. Anyway, here's hoping for a good day for all of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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also thank you for reminding me that I have the power (((((((not her!(((((((((((( :x)))))))))))
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Sallying Forth, would you mind telling me a little more about your therapist/ what went on or how you dealt with it-- anything that does not make you uncomfortable?? I really have become dependant on her but now I don't trust anything with that anymore. Maybe it will start to sink in. I admit that I feel really used and manipulated and like I have sort of lost the last four years of my life with her even though at the same time she has helped me so much.
Hi Bloopsy,
I've been away for a small vacation.
I'd be glad to answer your question. There is a long list but here are a few.
1. My former t tried to get me admitted to a psych ward against my will because she believed I was delusional. First she tried to do this with me and then tried to use my husband to get me into the hospital.
2. She was very intrusive and demanding information about things which she had no right to ask for in the the first place.
3. She attempted to become my mentor/guru/mother etc.
4. When I finally decided to leave her she said, "After all I've done for you? I can't believe it! You're going to leave just like that."
5. She engaged my husband in an alliance against me. She saw my husband for therapy and gleaned information from him to use to persuade me to do things, to manipulate me, etc.
There's more ... too numerous to address.
And I am still dealing with her abuse to this day. I haven't recovered. And my current t says I may never fully recover from what that t did to me.
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I thought so too, then, but I would not think so any more, after the damage that Michael did to me.
It was always about power, and he had it all.
I cannot now attend church because of agoraphobia, in part brought on by my experiences over the years with one abusive therapist after another. Inter alia.
(((((((((((((((((((October)))))))))))))))))))
I am so sorry you went through this abusive therapeutic relationship.
I do understand the damage it does. I am still not healed from the two abusive T's I had.
This web site relates to exploitation in therapy. And says it all for me:
http://www.advocateweb.org/hope/costofabuse.asp
The Cost of Abuse
Here's a few of the costs I can relate to:
• I lost any hope of recovering from childhood sexual abuse
• I lost my connections to important people in my life - due to the extreme isolation.
• She robbed me of my courage, my trust in others, confidence in my own judgment and past healing by re-enacting the prior abuse.
• Her abuse has cost me my freedom, my rights, my privileges, my trust in others and the mental health profession; and my freedom to be who I am.
• I have lost many, many thousands of dollars in lost income and in healing expenses.
• My mind shattered, and picking up the pieces and putting them back together may take a lifetime. (It will, not may take.)
• She shattered me, leaving permanent shards of glass in my psyche.
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This web site relates to exploitation in therapy. And says it all for me:
http://www.advocateweb.org/hope/costofabuse.asp
Thanks for that site, Sally. As you said, there is a lot there that is familiar. I am sorry you have had this kind of experience as well.
Now thinking that this wound has to heal properly before I can trust doctors or clergy again. :(
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((Sallying Forth)))))) OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: I do not know what to say. I am so sorry that this happened to you.
Love,
Bloopsy
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http://www.soulwork.net/sw_articles_eng/client-abuse.htm
a lot of the things that are discussed here went on in my therapy, including the therapist as guru/mother, and I came into therapy to heal my codepenance as one of the goals and instead had it exploited which is why I am upset in particular.
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Hi Bloopsy,
The worst part is my N-t wanted to film some of our sessions. I allowed her to do it. I don't know what she did with those movies. I feel violated by her having them and not knowing where they are. There was another screwy t who didn't believe I was multiple until she saw it with her own eyes.
I was her first true multiple client and she wanted proof - icky now thinking about it. I felt like a f***ing experiment. And she wanted to use it for furthering her career. And because my abuse was about being an experiment ... that's abuse upon abuse of the exact same kind. My childhood abuse included torture done by psychiatrists.
She also wanted to video me playacting (my inside children did it within me) out the abuse. That is where I drew the line. However that didn't stop her from pestering me every couple of weeks to get me to change my mind.
My t now knows trust is there but limited because I'll never put my trust in another t or doctor or psychdoc or psychologist again.
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Sallying forth: is this person still a practicing therapist? What a twisted sister!
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Sallying Forth,
thank you fo® sharing about your story, I am so sorry that person (using the term loosely here) and all those others put you through such horrible torture.
Love Bloopsy rose
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Yes, she is still in practice, mum. Although she had to move out of one area (probably due to her reputation). She is definitely a N-t.
When I started to see the light and was stronger I decided to make my move and leave her. At that time I was attending church for the first time in my life. She told me that she would no longer see me if I continued to go to church. She said my religion was affecting my healing. Yeah, it sure was. It was helping me to stand on my own two feet and separate from her. She didn't like that one bit. She wanted me for herself; her little captive experiment. SICK! SICK! SICK! :twisted:
Yeah, Bloopsy, I don't think I'd call this woman a person either. :lol:
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(((Sallying)))
I am so sorry. That therapist should be publicly disbarred, tarred and feathered and rode out of town. She was totally an N and obviously had no concept of the pain of dissociation and the very reasons for it, which are totally about survival of terrible trauma.
I was in group therapy with someone that had true multiples. It took every ounce of courage she had to come into the group. During our third session, she went into a mute, almost catatonic state, which was terrifying for us as well as for her. I know my terror was the fear that she might remain like that and not be able to get out of it, which is what we all felt when we processed it later. To not be able to reach someone who appeared to be fully cognizant a minute before was so scary. She finally came out of it and continued the work in the group and had a great deal of healing. I had the utmost respect for her. All of us in that group were incest survivors and had our own experiences with dissociation, so we all knew on some level how terrifying splitting and dissociation can be. I was lucky to be in that group.
I had severe dissociative problems in my late teens and early twenties when I first started having flashbacks. It was horrible. Everything felt unreal. I felt as if I was removed from my SELF, watching myself perform, in a numb state. Then shortly after the dissociation would come overwhelming panic attacks. However, I never lost time. I did feel as if I was split and fragmented, though, which was the truth.
When I was in my forties, I started actively working on my incest and abuse issues. One morning I woke up and felt "small." I looked at the adult clothes in my closet and could not quite believe they belonged to me. I could not get dressed and just sat on the edge of the bed for fifteen minutes staring at the closet, worrying about how to get dressed in those big clothes. I also was frantic because I knew that I could not drive in that child-like state. Luckily, I had grown enough of an adult to realize exactly what was happening, to remember that I had heard about this phenomenon, and to know that some fragmentary part of my unhealed inner self was making herself known to the rest of me. I also knew not to panic and that this was happening for the reason that this part of myself finally felt safe enough to show up. I managed to pick up the phone and call my employer to tell them I was sick. I then pulled on some warm sweats, which felt ok to that part of myself, who was about five. I spent most of the day in that state of being five with a functioning adult. It turned out to be a great thing because I learned to feel and nurture a part of myself that I had disowned many years before...and that poor little girl inside learned that there was an adult there to take care of her.
I seldom talk about this because many people who have never split or fragmented don't understand. I feel safe enough here to write about it. I know that I am eminently sane, but it took a long time to realize that. It took even longer for me to trust that there are others, even some who have never experienced the terror of dissociation, who truly have the empathy and compassion to understand.
Luckily, I had a great therapist who never would have exploited this and who realized that full and partial dissociative states were the only way that many of us could psychologically survive our abuses. I cannot imagine what it would have been like to have an abuser as my therapist. I would not have ever felt safe enough to process what happened.
The last thing I want to say is that you have come a long, long way and that I admire your courage and your perseverance.
Hugs to you Sallying, Amethyst
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(((amethyst)thank you for having the courage to describe what happened in your dissociation. That kind of thing happened to me too--- I spent a lot of my teens dissociated and not knowing what it was--- my doctor prescribed me lithium which made me even more out of it than before. A while ago I would wake up not knowing what to think and feeling really weird for having abody of an adult. Sometimes I walk around feeling like a very small little child with no one to love me, or like an abused ten year old on guard against my mothers boyfriend with no way out. I haven't really known what to think of this,and the way that you described how you dealt with it was very helpful to me .
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(((Bloopsy))) Are you an incest survivor? From what you said about your mother's boyfriend, it sure sounds as if you may be. If you are, or if you have suffered other forms of severe abuse or torture, that splitting and feeling "small" state is very normal in healing.
One book that I highly recommend is "The Courage to Heal" if you haven't already read it. It also comes with a workbook. I do suggest that anyone using the book have great support while they do it.
Hugs, Amethyst
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I really think that I am an incest survivor, with the memories and symptoms and icky horrible feelings towards my family members that I have. Thank you for recomending that book, I have not heard of it before I don't think.Another thing that helps me a lot is Survivors of Incest Anonymous, and they have very good literature available on their website and at meetings, which I also really recommend . It is based on the 12 steps of AA, and in the first step we admit that we are powerless over the abuse and the effects of the abuse. Thanks for the hug!!!!! :)(Amethyst))))))))))) P.S. I love Amethysts! There is this store in NY where they have HUGE amethyst stones almost shoulder height that are really nice to stand around.
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((((((((((((((((Bloopsy))))))))))))))))
I've read The Courage to Heal too. Excellent book.
Years I started my own support groups for sexual abuse survivors based on the SIA group rules. That program is great.
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when I get my paycheck LOL I am definitely going to get that book!!! That is so nice that it comes with a workbook as recovering can start to seem so nebulous like a black hole or something!