Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: marie on December 28, 2005, 01:15:51 AM
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I am new and I have a mother that suffers from N. I am 47 years old and the oldest of 2. I have just in the last year figured out that I was not the bad person or the crazy one. In my 20S I began to have medical problems due to my mother always calling and making me feels real upset and would get me crying because I was not like her friends daughters. She would always do this when she was in her lowest moments and or had been drinking. My doctor told me that if I didn't put a stop to it I would latter have medical problems. I took a LOT of mental abuse from her. Holidays always seem to be the worst. She was a only child family and was neglected and sexually abused. My mom does not think that she has a problem. It is everyone else. I have a brother that is in and out of jail and has a lot of problems himself. He doesn't contact her much so she takes everything out on me. She has lied to me to get me to feel sorry for her and has tried to use my older daughter against me. I love my mom, but it takes everything out of me to talk to her because she will get at me when I am least expecting it. If there is anyone out there that is going through this give me some ideas. I have even thought of writing a letter to Dr. Phil.
kperez
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Hi Marie,
Welcome to a safe place where you can feel what you feel.
I understand what it's like to feel very upset after dealing with your mother, and even to the point of getting ill or damaging your health. I'm sure a lot of other people here do too. Right off the bat, the first thing I think of when I read your post is what's missing: BOUNDARIES.
I think it would help you a lot to read about this subject: it sounds as though boundaries are lacking with your mother and she has too much freedom in your life. (And you give too much permission.)
Here's a good digest to start with, but searching "healthy boundaries" will find you lots of help:
http://www.msstate.edu/dept/cts/outreachs/pdf/healthy-boundaries.pdf
Keep posting. It will help you hear your own voice!
You are not alone.
Hopalong
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Hiya Kperez
I really feel for you hon. It sounds like you have given and given and given until you can give no more?
Your mum does not feel like she has a problem, and although it is very hard to except, I feel she will probably never realise she has a problem. My n dad blames... any kind of conversation he will turn it round until I was the one with the problem, so he didn't have to deal with anything. Once I could see this, it gave me the strength to set boundaries for myself.
You have given years to your mum.... maybe now is the time to give to yourself and love that little girl within you?
Lots of hugs
H&H xx
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Marie, I'm with you!! I want a normal mom too. I've come to the conclusion that it ain't a gonna happen. I am 49 - the eldest of two. Yes, my mom was an only child too. My dad loved her outrageously enough to leave his family - and his side of the world to stay married to her. Currently he lives in nursing home an hour away - and she lives in an independent living facility. I do believe my dad is happy where he is now.
But in dealing with my mom. . . oh, it's so hard. The phone calls. . . If I had a mute button on my phone, I would use it a lot. Instead, I realize my mom only wants to know what is happening in my life so she can distort what I say and use it to her advantage (oh - and she's not into alcohol - so this illness isn't just confined to those using alcohol).
I moved as far away from her as I could. I got involved in other activities to stay away from thinking about her. When I can't avoid the phone calls, I make up my mind as to when I'm calling her (and I do screen all calls). I put on a timer for about 15 minutes. Basically, I just listen to her chatter - - - and tell her nothing.
That's how I get through it.
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Hi Cat,
The word "chatter" really snagged me. I do it (one of my inherited Nspots). But I try to control it.
I think this is the single most frustrating thing about dealing with NMom. The endless, incessant, constant, never varying, stream of nonstop chatter about herself. Day after day after day.
It was just a relief to hear somebody call it that. Chatter.
(I'm so inspired I wanna open another thread on it.)
Tonight, I reminded NMom we have an appt tomorrow to have her faithful little dog of 16 years put to sleep. NMom goes, but I have a HAIR appointment.
I was just appalled. Little dog, who never leaves her side, can endure her painful cancer another week or two, because nothing should interfere with Mom's CURLS. (The dog isn't really a separate being to her. I should be surprised?)
Grrrrrrrrrrr.
Hopalong
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Hi Cat,
I know exactly what you mean about the phone calls. My mom moved to Arizona about 3 years ago and I really thought that the phone calls would get better because I was not seeing her as much. Oh no, I think that she would store up everything. I can also agree on the 15 minute phone call. The last time she started in on me it was after about 20 minutes and I made up an excuse to get off the phone. It is almost like they know that you have let down your guard and they sneak up and hit you with one of those rude comments. My parents got back together after 35 years, when she moved to Arizona. That was a disaster. She would brow beat my father so much that this summer he moved out because she was so mean to him. I have found that my mom wants people around her but, it has to be on her terms. I would like to visit her but I can only hander her for a few days and the feeling sorry for her self sets in. My mother told me on Christmas Eve that I was the one with the mental problems and that I needed to go and see a shrink. My husband and daughters and friends all tell me that it is her. I know it is and that's what's so hard. She thinks that in the last past few years that I am not as close to her and she doesn't know what happened. I am just tired of the emotional roller coaster and I have chosen to get off the ride.
Marie
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Hey Marie,
Your email was encouraging. . . it's nice to know we're in it together. I would take heard by what your husband, daughters and friends say . . .in that they all recognize your mother has the mental problems. It took a long time for my sister and I to understand that because we were so close to the situation. Eventually, the relatives and the in-laws pointed the situation out to us very carefully. (It was actually a "Dear Abby" article that helped us put a name to it!)
Every word out of my mothers mouth (and I'm guessing yours too) has to be carefully measured to see if it's true or not. Without that "filter" I would go nuts thinking it was all my fault. And as you say - putting on a "mother" filter definitely helps with the emotional roller coaster.
Cat
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Hi Guys,.
This post really reonated with me because at the moment I am waiting with baited breath as i have sent my mum a Christmas card and a brief synopsis of my life since I last spoke to her (April). if you don't already know my N partner just took of one day,. basically with £25,.000 of my money. I would love my mum to soothe my pain and stroke my hair and tell me everything will be OK but alas I am now aware that this will not be forthcoming. Instead I will be subject to a long tirade of what have I done to make him leave which will lead on to how awful I am and how I am such a dreadful daughter etc......
I also know about being a massive disappointment compared to others. there was this kid who used to live across the road from me and my mother was constantly wishing I was her. She still is actually... I agree about the laying down of boundaries. I have been learning in therapy that she is just not going to become a 'mum' so i need to therefore stop trying to gain her appproval and live my life for myself. My mother also chatters endlessly about herself and comes out with classic guilt wrenching statements like... "I am like a grape withering on a vine through neglect" or she will whisper "I'm sorry I'm whispering but as nobody has bothered to talk to me I am losing my voice".
My muother will also lament the fact that I am not as close to her. What that actually means is that I am trying to disentangle myself from the enmeshed relationship she created to make me unable to function without her...
Spyralle x
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Hello Spyralle,
I surely understand were you are. My mom told me about 2 years ago that the lady next door to her that is my age is more of a daughter to her than me. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. She always is giving advise but her life is a complete wreck. I have been married 2 times in my life. The first time I had a husband that on a daily bases verbally abused me. I lived in the world of callapsed boundaries. I felt like a puppet and everyone was pulling my strings. My mom loved him because he was as sick as her and they fed off each other. I really thought that all marrages were like mine. My first husband died of cancer and that was my way out of a bad marrage. I am now married and have been for 19 years and he is normal. I have healthy boundaries with him. It is my mom that I am working on getting there. I find myself going the total opposite in to Rigid Boundaries with her just to keep my sanity. I would like to send her a book on N but, I don't think that she will get it. She called me last night and I just got sick to answer the phone. It was a short and sweet call and I hung up. I need to work on knowing when to cut off the conversation so it doesn't get into a fight and then I have to re-live the phone call for a couple of days. I just hate that.
Marie
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Marie, I have also faced the fact that Mom feels other people are closer to her than her own daughters. On my part, though, I have some role models in my life who are much more of a Mother to me than she is. Once I was able to kind of mentally disconnect myself in that way, it helped.
At one point in my life, I confronted my Mom with some issues. Very unemotionally she stated she was sorry that was the way I felt - - - and then went on to say that the best time in her life was during high school. My Mom is nearing 80 now (and just as cruel as ever) - - - but at this point, I've got some pity for her. 4 year in high school - out of an entire life span of 80 years, of happiness is pretty darn sad. I also used to relive the phone call for a couple of days (especially when we disagreed) - but I found out that it was more impactful to me than it was to her.
What a tangled web, eh?
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Cat,
My mom also lives in a small time frame. She just can't let herself out of her small time capsule. Her time was when she was in her late 20's she met my stepfather that she married 2 times and has been back with him a half a dozen times in the last 40 years. She tells everyone how much fun and how much she loved him. Her biggest problem is that there is no compromising in her world. He is a very strong willed person also and he just wouldn't put up with her ways so they would end up breaking up. For a long time I didn't really like him because she always made every think it was all his fault. I know now that it was not his fault totally. She thinks life is a big party... When the party is over and the dust settles she becomes bored.
My mom feels that everyone should agree with the way she sees everything. No one else should have there own appionion and if you do look out...she is going to start a fight with you.
It is very sad because she is only going to die a very lonely old women because she has crushed every relationship that she has had.
Marie
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My mum has done that too.... crushed every relationship she has ever had. Her expectations of people are so high that no one can live up to them. She has no insight into any of her behaviour and believes that the fault always lies with them. She keeps going on now about when she is infirm and will need someone to look after her. She wants me to sell my house and buy a house with her..... They seem to have no understanding of any world other than their own...
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My mom always is looking for a nice man. I really don't think that she know what nice means. When she does find a nice man he becomes to boring for her. She wants turmoil not nice. She is not happy unless she is complaining and or bitching about something. I could NEVER live with my mom. When I lived at home growing up I hated it when she came home. The minute she came in the door she would look around the room to see something that she could complain about. When I graduated from high school I wanted to go to college but she refused to pay. I was turned down for a grant because my mother had inherited a lot of money when her parents passed away. So, I got a full time job and went to college full time. That lasted about one quarter. It was just to much for me. The days were not long enough so I had to drop out. I needed to survive. I had moved out and was on my own. I couldn't live with her anymore.
I could never do that to my own kids. My daughter that lives at home wants to go to college and my husband and myself are not going to take those dreams away from her. I have since had that discution with my mom and she really doesn't say to much about it. I have learned not to borrow anything from her either. Once you have and you go to drive off she is on the phone needed the item back. She lives long distance and that to me is the only way for my own family and myself to have any sanity.
Marie
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Marie,
I am so angry about what your mother did to you (not paying for university). She is so abnormal. Like some sort of animal that ought to go extinct because it does not have the ability to nurture its young. What a selfish thing to do. Beyond selfish.
She will feel bad when you support your daughter. Not because she has suddenly grown a heart, but because you are outdoing her in looking after your daughter, and she knows on some level she was so wrong and now it will be even more obvious. So expect some snide remarks.
My mum kicked me out of the house immediately after graduation. I was exhausted from working and studying and had to take a crappy live-in job just to have a place to stay. It was not a great start in life! But hey. I still survived.
Your mum sounds just like mine. She still thinks she is going to get a man. Even though her n-ness is right out front nowadays and she can't even hang onto a girlfriend. If I hear another story about how cute she is (in her late 70's) and how jealous the other women in her building are.....
Plucky
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Blimey... my Mum did that too. I really wanted to go to college to resit my GCSE's, but she refused and insisted I had to get a full time job, to help them pay the bills. She also told me to go into secretarial work because typing was the only thing I was good at. This is my reason for doing secretarial/administrative work. About 8 years later I had a discussion on the phone with her about it... she couldn't understand why I felt angry.
My brother on the other hand.... 7 years later when he left school, was encouraged to go to college and do a full time course. I really felt it was so unfair.
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kperez et al,
I feel for everyone here. My heart and mind go out to you all. Finally, people who don't look with a blank stare, but get it!! Joy!
They don't see anything but the negative, all they do is complain. Yes. That is true. I'm starting not to care why. I'm starting not to wonder so much. I'm starting not to wish otherwise (all the time)...
Thank you thank you thank you. And thank you God, too for giving me the strength to deal. The strength to put myself through college despite all the setbacks, the strength to see through the unfairness, to forgive (well sort enough, enough to propel forward), to survive, to grow, to have beautiful relationships despite my horrible role models. Thank you for giving me compassion. Thank you for giving me a soul. My plight has not always been easy, I did not want it even a lot of the time, it has been hard, but I can see, I really wouldn't have wanted it any other way I guess, because what are the alternatives? I wouldn't be who I am today, I wouldn't be as appreciative of what I now have. Instead of focusing on what I don't have, look at all the good things I have!
Mom feels other people are closer to her than her own daughters.
To this, kperez, plucky, Marie, spyralle, Hopalong and H&H, you may now think: "Yahhhhh "(said regularly by a woman I used to work with who I befriended and "adopted" as my surrogate role model mother, because I like the qualities I saw in her better <wink>) "well Duh." And anyone here may free to think of me as now than their own mother. It's probably true, anyway as we share more of the same feelings.
bean
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To Marie,
My heart goes out to you. My mother is a narcissist too and I can really relate to what you are saying. It's really heartwrenching when your own mother is like this. I am 28 with 2 children and only just realized what she is. I always knew that something was wrong but didn't want to believe it. I was called the crazy one too. For a few years I tried proving to her I wasn't crazy by being her loyal selfsacrificing friend and gaining approval by showing her I was caring. I wanted so badly for her to love me and that things would change. Well she used me and ate me for breakfast. So then I decided to keep her at a distant but still have her in my life. I watched and watched her and saw that everything she did she did for herself. She was hurting everyone in my family that I held dear to my heart, my brothers family, my sisters family etc. She sees my children as inconvient and refused to babysit. I have cut off contact with her now and its scary but freeing at the same time. I know that she will never change.
It must be horrible to have your own daughter used against you.
One thing I have realized is that she brought us up to feel worthless and that we were lucky to have her. I really thought I was crazy and that I wasn't valuable. It's brainwashing, emotionally abusive and manipulative.
My payoff to putting up with her in my adult years was keeping the family together and nothing changing. (even good change is frightening) We were brought up to never challenge her.
I don't know what advice to give you but know that we here to care, understand and support you. We are all going through similar situations. all the best and take care
Jessica
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To each and everyone,
Thank you so much!!! I can't believe that there are so many of us out there that have gone through this. I swear that we must of all had the same mom or they must of come from the same mold. I really thought just like many of you that it had to be me. That I was the one that had the problem. All of my girlfriends had nice mom's. My mom always acted like our relationship was better than my friends or at least she tried to convince me of it. I feel so stupid that it has taken me so many years to figure it out.
It seem to have gotten worse after she retired. I don't know more time on her hands and no one around to complain to. My mom is not happy unless there are fireworks and excitement all around her. If it is just another day she is unhappy and bored. I have not talked to her since Christmas. I am feeling a little guilty because I have not called but, I dread the call. I always think to myself "hopefully it is going to be a good call". What I think is a good call she thinks is a boring call. I really am convinced she like tumoil.
Thank you all for your support.
Marie
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Today I called my father just to check in and see how things are going with him. He now lives with his sister that is going through radiation treatments for cancer. Life is going good with him. I asked him if he had talked to mom lately and he said "no". I told him that she is being entertained by her ex-husband that she married two times. I am sure that my dad felt a little sided but I am sure that he was not surprised because she would keep in contact with him and she hasn't called in awhile.
I told him that I have not talked to her either. Infact I told him I really don't have much to talk to her about. She lied to my daughter about being alone on Christmas and thought she could turn my brother on me. My brother is on to her and has been for along time. I told him that I might come down and visit but, I was not going to stay with mom. He said it would be fine if we stayed with him, his sister is in Oregon going through her cancer treatments and he is by himself.
I feel bad that I feel this way but, since I have not talked to her I feel good about and I am not having to hash out in my mind for days regarding the conversatons that went on. I usually get real mad and upset and it grinds on me for days. The self talk that goes on is enough to drive me crazy.
My brother told me that he will never forgive mom for making dad feel so bad that he had to move out. My parents got back together after over 35 years. What a mistake that she wanted to try it all over again. But, again she never moves on. She always lives in the past. My brother and myself didn't know if it was going to be a good idea if they did get back together. We were afraid that he would get hurt at the end. I am telling you she is ruthless..
Now she has the x-husband down with her trying to rejuvenate an old relationship. He has gotten reeled in by her charm, but her ugly side is right around the corner and then the relationship will sour again just like it always does. This time I will not be around to here her woes. Thank god I have a great husband, kids, brother, dad and friends.
Marie
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Thank goodness Marie, that so many of you are on to the N. You didn't ask for advice, but I cannot resist. Try not to even talk about your mum when you converse with dad or brother. You don't know what bad feelings the whole topic brings up for them. You know for you but it could be different for them - perhaps they are not as far along as you. Let it lie. Let her slide down the drain of your memory like a gloppy mess down the shower drain.
an inarticulate
Plucky
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Thank you Plunky, I will certainly remember that next time that I talk with any of my family members. She has effect all of us in the family in many different ways. Some know that she is selfish and others just don't want to admit that she is the way she is and is waiting for her to wake up. She is being occupied or I must say entertained right now and really needs no one until she all by herself again. I guess I will just have to watch the caller ID to make sure that she doesn't catch me off guard. It has been along time since I have talked to her and she will have a lot of built up things to unload on me. That's how she operates.
Marie
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Plunky!!!???? Well I guess I have put on a few since the holidays. Better fish out that fat fllush diet and stow the chips!
I know all about saving things up. It sounds really strange and almost amusing, the laundry list of pushbuttons my mum trots out, if it weren't so upsetting and just downright wrong and full of lies. Do keep guard but also try to harden your heart. That is the best way and most preventive. Until then, caller ID is the way to go!
Pluncky
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I also have a mother I wish loved me and even more could love herself.
I talk to my younger sister once in awhile and yesterday was her B-day so I called her.
We talked about N-mom for almost 3hrs, it was 1am before I got off the phone and only because I wake up at 5am so I had to hang up.
She admitted to me how she wished she could break away from Nmom. I left home 2weeks after my 18th B-day. I always felt sick after I would be around her and then her poisin was injected into my sisters and then the grandkids.
My younger sister used to tell me try and get along, you should forgive, but Nmom's poisin was so toxic I soon found years had gone by with little contact. My sister now tells me she made a mistake and now understood how the hate can wedge family members, the lies and drama where ever she goes how she is now being picked on because she tells her she needs help and has a problem. Sis, is done and wants to be free of her.
I tried to tell her the sadness to let go and set her life free of Nmom,that there is little help for those that will never admit they are the ones with the problem.
She tells me how my mother says bad things about me and does not consider me her daughter or my twin brother. My sister loves me and has asked my mother to let go what ever her hate is which no one seems to be able to explain to me. Just that it exist is real and hurtful. My sister has seen my Nmother getting worse with age and now admits I did the right thing to have stayed away from her.
I felt for the first time in 28 years I did not missunderstand the messages she sent me, with her rejection and hatefulness toward me. most of the feelings said here are the same, wondering why she would act so nice to other kids but so mean to me, whispers when I would walk in a room, favoritism toward my 3 sisters.
I felt like Cinderella.
I have a lot of new thoughts now, knowing I have my sisters support and I was not the one with the problem.
My mom was abused as a child and her mother and father were always rejecting to her.
They never had much to do with us, but I believe my mom was protecting us from her abusive father.
Got to go ...D is having a sleep over and wants the computer to download her pics from the B-Day party she just got back from .......................OR
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I felt like Cinderella.
I like this! And you are! But let's get those horrid stepsisters into therapy and a makeover, shall we?
Plucky
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The telephone has become a weapon of mass destruction in this home, too. I wish for an unlisted phone number, but my husband won't let us, then he gets angry if I let my abusive mother or sister's behavior upset me. I am between a rock and a hard place. I do set boundaries, but you know how people like that are. I just started yelling and hanging up on them. I was too agreeable and polite for years to people who abused me physically, emotionally and spiritually. I almost died a few times, too. Enough is enough.
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I forgot to mention that last year, I got into a car accident after a horrible call from my mother. I was so upset, I got startled by a siren being turned on a fire truck and slammed into the back of a car that had stopped at the light. My husband also works a very dangerous job and one slip and he could be killed. This is not something we can ignore and my family knows it, too, they could care less. Some people are just plain evil. Stress takes years off our lives, too, we don't owe anybody that. I have taken a stand, they keep testing me, only to get the phone clunked in their ear! I never used to do that and they never stopped bothering me. Now, they think twice before picking up that phone, works for me. :)
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Poor Canoe. You are so right about stress. I can EASILY visualize how someone could be so upset after talking (huh? I mean enduring) a "conversation" with a narcissistic person that they would have a car accident.
Thank heaven you weren't killed. What a wakeup call...or hangup call, more like it.
Good for you for hanging up. I'm sorry your H isn't more understanding but they're not his family and if he doesn't get it, he doesn't get it.
Meanwhile, though, a Caller ID system would help you a lot...you could see who's calling and just not answer in the first place. And you could tell hiim if he answers when they are calling, he is not allowed to just "hand" the phone to you.
Telephones do not own us.
Good for you for your awareness.
Hopalong
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Cone, I can relate to the stress from the N then driving being distracted with thoughts about them.
One day I ran a red light being so upset with my N-ex, I was lucky the light allowed only the cars to my right
access on the street.
I find now after years of the stress other stresses cause me to get distracted easily while driving.
The other day I had a full load of kids in my car, D expects I must be in visable sometimes or she feels uncomfortable if I talk to her friends.
I said something and D said mom don't listen to our conversation, I felt upset and reminded her I'm not in visable and she was not being very nice to me.
Well I was turning left without the lead green light, I guess I must have really been in visable some how we escaped being hit.
The horn was honking at me after I cut in front of them. The kids all said WOW we almost got killed.
I felt so bad I was upset with myself for being distacted and just wanted to cry about how lucky we all were.
I flashed back about running the red light and now this.
I must not allow my self to zone out thinking about things while driving.... very bad ... OR
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Buckle up, OR, be safe!!!
Your descriiption of "flashing back" made me think how being the child (or the anything, really) of a serious N can leave one with something like PTSD.
I think your Daughter's remark was hurtful and you had every right to be upset. (Me in fantasy gestalt:
"I am NOT an invisible force field that is serving as your chauffeur. I am a person and your mother and do not speak to me that way!")
Your story reminded me of the 1st of a very few times I shouted at my daughter, and it was after I'd been driving her all over the place. I was just stressed out like mad.
Odd thought, but I wonder how the automobile has affected relationships and families?
(Jeez. First I wanna toss out the TV and now I wanna take away our car keys! :lol:)
Of course, I have the boob tube on and I'll be driving tomorrow...
Thanks for getting me thinking!
Hopalong