Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Reality Check on February 11, 2006, 03:39:03 PM

Title: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: Reality Check on February 11, 2006, 03:39:03 PM
Thank you and welcome to those who PMed me about the support group. To those who are confused as to what you need to do -- you do not need to do anything other than PM me a valid email address right now. At the time of activation, you will be required to register according to instructions. This thread will be used for further updates.

If anyone else is interested, please send me a PM.

Thanks guys.

=============================================

Folks, I have news.

I see two types of people on this message board. First, who think that we grow through our interpersonal conflicts on the board, and this is how we work on our stuff. Second, who think that we need a safe harbor and less interpersonal pressures, more trust and more safety. I belong to the second group.

Therefore I have decided to start a Google support group for those of us who belong in the second category, to provide a place where we can come and hang our stuff, without having to worry about whether I smiled the right way or waved my cyberhand to you or not, whether I should bring my sword or not. It will focus on HEALING, rather than rehashing the same old same old, without the pressure of being overly careful about interpersonal issues. 

It will be an unlisted, private group where only invited members can sign on, post and read. All members will be from this message board only, absolutely no outsiders, so it will be folks who know each other already and N filters will be firmly in place. Because it will be a private group, its website or the posts will not show up in Yahoo/Google searches, and can be deleted by members at wish. Although members will have the option to subscribe through email, all will be requested to subscribe to the web version only to protect privacy.

In addition to our usual enticing N discussions, I also see it as a place where we can share what happened at work, recipes, discuss movies, pop in to cheer up on a bad day-- a kind of a go happy lounge really. Definitely not a place where you will be attacked, or see someone else be attacked.

It will be similar to our current board, with one strong additional covenant. It will be understood that members will not air their interpersonal differences online but work out between themselves as they arise, hopefully not arise. They will also maintain a healthy respect of each other's boundaries instead of acting out, which means you can't say anything you won't say to your coworker if you are mad. I think this will accomplish two things: (a) As we thrash out our differences individually, without a wide audience, we will really begin to communicate a lot better and it will promote a healthier atmosphere. (b) We will really learn to be close to each other without violating each other, as we did not learn in our family. When someone does not smile, we will learn to think that she may be had a bad day, instead of throwing a tantrum and feeling that we are entitled to it, in the name of "voicing our truth." This way, even old friends may form new friendships.

There will be no moderators, we will all moderate ourselves...  And we can all take turns in being administrator of the group each month.

It will not be a substitute to this board, the mother of all boards, where we will all belong, but rather an add on, a place to destress, feel snuggly and cheer up, if you will. So if you want to join, send me a PM with your google ID, and I will send you an invite by next week. 

Peace, Marta 
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: REALITY CHECK on February 11, 2006, 03:52:17 PM
This is a Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board for people who have been silenced and abused, some from early childhood.

To create threads here that you lock purposely so that no one can respond to them is NOT OKAY.

It is offensive, passive-agressive and controlling.

Please take some time to look at how you are behaving.

Started by Marta,  on: August 27, 2005, 04:23:48 AM

Re: Top Three

"I was thinking about what triggers me, where my buttons are. Here are the top three I came up with:

1. I say to you, smilingly, please don’t do this because…x,y,and z. I say to you again, a reminder, hey, do you remember we talked about this, the reason it doesn’t work for me is because…I say to you the third time, Please just don’t do it. I don’t like it. May be I repeated this for fourth or fifth time. BUT if you do it for the sixth time, it makes me so mad, just so blo**y mad, that I WILL explode, hell WILL break loose, even if it is a matter as small as borrowing my pen without my permission. You will remain my friend, but you will learn not to mess with me.

2. We are having a conversation. You give me reasons that don’t make sense.

3. You put me down. Once. And there you go out of my life.

These triggers obviously have to do with my N family background, with being seen and heard. For me, a friendship must be safe above all (no game playing, no dishonest answers, no minimizing and discounting), there must be mutual respect (no putdowns), and you must listen to me when I say no (if you don't, you will be taught to.
"


Re: can you do anger? by Marta
Reply #10 on: September 17, 2005, 12:55:20 AM »

For myself, the common pitfalls I still face in using my anger constructively are: (b) Failure to honor my anger. If I am really angry about something, then I also bear the responsibility to fix it. If being around you makes me very angry, then I will have to stop being around you or distance myself. If I don’t do these things, then my anger will grow exponentially, and a lot of that anger will be the anger I feel towards myself for failing to protect me; then I invariably act out


Running away from problems is a defense mechanism many people engage in.  However, to take is from being a personal defense mechanism and in effect begin a coupe on this board, an us vs them environment, so that you can create a safe environment from which you can run to so that you do not have to deal with your triggers is slightly, well, narcissistic.

It is offensive to this board.  It is not done in the spirit of supporting a support group community or family!

"Guest, what a lovely post! Please become a member of our family, don't remain a guest...."     
Welcome aboard

Please stop what you are doing.  Please do not post updates on this board for your forum.  Can you be respectful of the other feelings on this board which differ from you own?

If you must have your forum, please feel free but please keep your forum separate from this forum.  To post updates in your locked thread is a painful reminder to many here who feel ostracized, labeled and SILENCED!


Thank you.
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: Marta on February 12, 2006, 01:10:36 AM
Dear Reality Check,

I will bow to your suggestion and keep that forum entirely separate. I will not post any updates here. I am very sorry for the pain I caused.

Marta
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: herewegoagain on February 12, 2006, 02:26:21 AM
Portia - KNOCK IT OFF.

You have admitted posting on another thread under multiple names a long time ago. Will you now deny that it is you?

You are being histrionic - you can hardly be rendered voiceless when you are quite free to open another thread - oh look you have done so - more than once !

Also cutting and pasting shows a desire to twist what other people have written. A subtle change of context here, a twist of meaning there and voila ! Word soup.

Perhaps you're putting here words together to prove something to yourself, but there is a way to do things that genders respect.

To no longer be 'voiceless'  is not just about being able to say whatever the h*** you damn well want whenever you want to.
There are other things that are also important. Like taking the time to speak/write to others in a respectful way. Taking ownership of your own problems - do you know the phrase 'when you haven;t got anything nice to say it's best to say nothing at all?'

I think Marta has done this and been unfairly pigeon holed as a result. But she wouldn't 'win' no matter what she said or did. I've seen this pattern before on the board. Round and round the garden we go, where's my teddy?

Marta is being bullied and hounded. For no good reason that I can see.  It looks like you have been triggered big time. Perhaps you can take ownership from that and learn something.

 Perhaps the owl might help :0)

The wise old owl who lived in an oak,
the more he saw the less he spoke,
the less he spoke the more he heard,
now wasn't he a wise old bird.

herewegoagain



Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: Cadbury on February 12, 2006, 05:30:25 AM
I am not getting into this debate (or whatever it is). People know what I think if they need to. However, I would say that Portia would say whatever she wanted without using another name. Could be just my opinion, but that is how I have seen Portia to be.

That doesn't mean I am on any particular side in this discussion/debate/general slanging match :)

I like this board, I like people on both (all??) sides of this argument. I just think Portia would say anything she wanted straight out!

Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: Healing&Hopeful on February 12, 2006, 05:33:30 AM
I am not getting into this debate (or whatever it is). People know what I think if they need to. However, I would say that Portia would say whatever she wanted without using another name. Could be just my opinion, but that is how I have seen Portia to be.

That doesn't mean I am on any particular side in this discussion/debate/general slanging match :)

I like this board, I like people on both (all??) sides of this argument. I just think Portia would say anything she wanted straight out!



Hear hear.... I agree Cadbury x
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: Support on February 12, 2006, 10:37:41 AM
Quote
  Portia
Hero Member

Posts: 1334


    Re: Are We Okay?
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2006, 05:31:57 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marta

While we are discussing this matter of what is said on the board, there is one more thing I've been wanting to say for a long time. It is about how we communicate with people who come up here who are suicidal, as it so happens every now and then. I often hear them told that come here, post often, it is a great community, etc. etc. What usually happens is that very soon after that, they hear something that triggers them and makes them feel attacked, discounted, you name it, by some very innocuous remarks. And they leave, with one more bruise on their heart.

How do you know all this for a fact?

Ours is a support board, not a suicide intervention hot line or a therapy board.

Are you deciding what ‘our’ board is Marta? I believe the board belongs to Dr Grossman. Yes we make it what it is, but it is not ‘ours’. And it is not within your power to decide what goes on here. If you want to change it or make rules about what happens here, I suggest you contact Dr Grossman. 

I see our job with suicidal folks to present ourselves with as much kindness and support as we can, without trying to adminster therapy, BUT also encourage them to find a therapist or support as soon as possible. My two cents.

Fine. I shall do differently and I would encourage everyone here to do as they wish on this board. If we cross a line, I count on Dr Grossman to tell us. It’s his board.
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 
 
 
 
herewegoagain
Guest


   Re: Are We Okay?
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2006, 05:55:39 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a nice cut and past job, Portia.

And very sympathetic. Of course why should your posts be sympathetic right? You can say what you want, can't you?

Fine. I shall do differently and I would encourage everyone here to do as they wish on this board

Can you see my point?

You're also giving what seems to be a caring post about things that do happen on the board from time to time an 'edge' when that is not necesary at all. Simila to a few other threads at the moment.

OK, now I'm confused because I thought herewegoagain was Marta, based on this post (above) awhile back.  The only thing that's clear to me is that Marta creates a lot of confusion and has engaged in these arguments with people in the past: with Tiffany, Stormchild, Portia etc.  She stated she won't respond and implied others might want to leave because of these arguments with her--then she's begged them to stay (Tiffany). Also, she apparently went back and deleted or modified some of those posts, so the original content is gone.  I am new here, I am NOT Portia posting under an alias.  I would simply like to figure out why Portia reacted the way she did and if it's "safe" to engage Marta.  It doesn't appear so, thus far.  If Marta's not a N, she's definetely hurt and enraged which is just as dangerous to me (a new person that doesn't have a voice at all yet), so it is very important for me to find this out for myself.  So I don't want to forget about all this, I would like to get to the bottom of it.  Do you see why?

I can see why the senior posters wouldn't think this is a problem, they have the experience and knowledge of how to deal with this behind them, I suspect.  But I don't. 
 
 
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: herewegoagain on February 12, 2006, 10:58:15 AM
Dear Reality Check,

I will bow to your suggestion and keep that forum entirely separate. I will not post any updates here. I am very sorry for the pain I caused.

Marta
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: Support on February 12, 2006, 12:25:17 PM
Also, for what it's worth, herewegoagain/Marta may be projecting, because I just don't see that Portia has done anything inappropriate, however, I do see where Marta fits some of the criteria for Histrionic PD:

Diagnostic criteria for Histrionic Personality Disorder
A pervasive pattern of excessive emotionality and attention seeking, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention
(2) interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
(3) displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
(4) consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self
(5) has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
(6) shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
(7) is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances
(8) considers relations to be more intimate than they actually are

Quote

On Sep 5, 2005, Stormchild (guest) wrote:

Hey, whoa. I've seen more than enough of this now. Marta, it looks to me as though you are bullying people here. I have refrained from commenting on most of the occasions when I have seen it, but I'm going to comment now, because I'm really getting concerned about it.

On the Narcissism and Shame-Dumping thread, a comment was posted which shamed one of the other contributors to the thread - for something entirely gratuitous - and also shamed the thread for even existing because you had no interest in it. Because you removed this comment, I won't go into further details. I'd like to think you realized it was inappropriate and understood why, and most of us have posted first and edited later at  some time or other.

On the Hurricane Katrina Apathy thread, when I inquired into the motives behind your post praising a single poster in terms that were quite critical of all the other posters and of the thread topic itself, your response to me was that you "meant applause for [that poster], not insult for [myself]."

This statement may actually have been meant as an apology on some level. However, it reframes the issue as being about one individual's hurt feelings, rather than addressing the real issue: that individual objecting to a social solecism committed towards an entire group of people having a conversation. SF's thread is not a competitive event, and the participants do not need their responses 'graded' by anyone. It was perfectly possible to applaud one poster without putting down all of the others and the topic itself.

Reframing the issue as being about somebody else's feelings, rather than your own actions, (a) puts down the person whose 'hurt feelings' are being substituted for the real issue, and (b) by doing so invalidates both them and the real issue. It goes beyond 'blame the victim'. It's 'invent a victim, then blame them'.

To have read that, and then see such umbrage being taken at Tiffany's explanation and apology, was the last straw. It's past time for this to stop.

Stop bullying people. Obviously it is something you can refrain from. You have posted supportively on many occasions. I am certain that you can continue providing support to one person while refraining from 'ricochet' putdowns and invalidations of others. This is the ideal place to learn how to do that. Nobody here is in competition with you for anything, and everyone here is more than happy to help one another grow.

I wish you well.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stormchild,

You are entitled to your opinions, you are entitled to read what you like in my posts, you are not entitled to call me names. I hope that it will not happen again.

Marta

Stormchild
Guest


 
 
Re: media narcissism
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2005, 06:09:54 PM »   

________________________________________
Marta, labeling a person's behavior is not the same thing as calling the person names.

Whenever I see what looks to me like bullying or rudeness, I have the right to describe what I am seeing, explain why I interpret it a certain way, and ask the person doing it to stop. Everyone here has that same right. It's called "setting boundaries".

Consider your nephew. How did you respond when he protested your teasing? Not like this, based on what you posted about it to us in mid August.

I hope this helps clarify the issue for you.

One question: is Stormchild Portia?  If so, that maybe clears up a lot of confusion for me. 
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: mudpuppy on February 12, 2006, 04:24:39 PM
Support,

Stormchild and Portia are two completely seperate and distinct individuals.
Sorry to not be able to clear up any confusion you might have. Frankly, with all the aliases and stuff going around I am pretty  confused myself.

Personally, I'm going to go take a nap. 8) :D :P

mud
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: Cadbury on February 12, 2006, 04:38:59 PM
YAY! A nap ... best idea I've heard for a long while.... *falls instantly fast asleep*

Single mother - I nap when I can :)
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: Hopalong on February 12, 2006, 05:10:29 PM
I wonder if this thread/situation might change if folks used "I" statements.

I felt/feel ______ when this/that happened.
It reminded me of how I felt at another time in my life when __________.

One thing I notice is how much of this/these threads seems to be people speaking about other people, even "for" them. There are lots of "we's" and "you's" but fewer "I's."

(I love using "we" sometimes, myself. It makes me feel wise and knowing.)

 :oops:

Hops
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: jordanspeeps on February 13, 2006, 07:32:40 PM
My two cents:

I was actually quite overjoyed to hear that Marta's had all she can take and has decided to take her EXCLUSIVE party elsewhere.  Maybe I'll come back and hang here around more!!!  Maybe a few more of us disenchanted newbies will feel a "safe harbour, more trust and more safety", with Marta somewhere else.

Plugging an IDEAL, HAVEN of a Message Board while concurrently denying would-be members a voice and opportunity to join: that's RICH! ABSOLUTELY PRICELESS!  I simply can't wait to PM her for an invitation.  Hmmmm... I wonder if I'll get picked....  Am I smart enough? or empathic enough?... Is the N in my life ENTICING enough? Have I dealt with the repressed issues of my past enough? Oh, wait... she said on her website we could focus on:

Quote
HEALING, rather than rehashing the same old same old, without the pressure of being overly careful about interpersonal issues.   
 
What am I saying?!!!?, Looks like I won't need empathy, or compassion, or any of that other pesky interpersonal relationship stuff, after all.  Oh, I just hope I get invited.... It's like my Nmother always said, "The way to a good old-fashioned HEALING is through great recipes and cheerful, passive-agressive, banter."   I'll keep you guys posted about the invite!!!  Keep your fingers crossed!!!   :shock: :shock: :shock:

P.S. Yes, I am aware that everything I just said was highly sarcastic and mean-ish.  This does however really give a truthful voice the utter, random confusion and frustration I feel when dealing with the subject and character that is Marta.  I won't further this anymore.  It could be seen as character assasination.  I just really needed to respond to this post.  I found it highly offensive.

Quote
It will be an unlisted, private group where only invited members can sign on, post and read.
  Get over yourself.

Tiffany
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: Reality Check on February 13, 2006, 08:19:34 PM
Just want to clarify the originial post because it's causing some confusing.

The print in red are my words.  I am not Portia.  From what I've observed, Portia would say whatever she wanted to say very specifically in her own unique way.

I have my reasons for posting anonymously which I choose not to address here.

Thank you, Marta, for respecting the forum.

The posts that I quoted by  Marta were quoted to give Marta something to think about.

These were my words:

Quote
Running away from problems is a defense mechanism many people engage in.  However, to take it from being a personal defense mechanism and in effect begin a coupe on this board, an us vs them environment, so that you can create a safe environment to which you can run to so that you do not have to deal with your triggers is slightly, well, narcissistic.

It is offensive to this board.  It is not done in the spirit of supporting a support group community or family!

This was quoted:
Quote
"Guest, what a lovely post! Please become a member of our family, don't remain a guest...."     
Welcome aboard
 
Re: N Mom back......... Feeling trapped and helpless by Marta
Posted on January 01, 2006, 08:32:58 AM

Because Marta said this:
Quote
"It is silly to pretend that we are a family, whatever, which is what I hear often on the board. We are not a family, but we are a community, and a very fine one at that."
Re: Are We Okay?
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2006, 11:59:02 PM
[/b]
 

No words in Marta's posts were twisted or misquoted.  The posts were quoted exactly as is.  If you don't believe it, search for yourself.  We are a community but some of us feel like a family.  It is right to say something is wrong when you feel it is wrong and that is exactly what has been done.



Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: Marta on February 14, 2006, 12:09:22 AM
I wish to address some of the issues raised here, in no particular order.

1. Reality CHeck, I realize that you are not Portia, you have your own distinct voice, and that is why I responded to it, because I could see the hurt in it, even though it was not intended by me. You are right to have pointed out that I had transgressed in posting updates here. But I did not like you cutting and pasting my past posts out of context, it felt like a violation actually. Nor do I like to see any one person think that they speak for the entire forum. Many in this thread have already spoken to end this argument, have you respected their wishes?

I don't think it is fair to say that you have your own reasons for which you will not reveal your identity. I mean, it is OK to point to point fingers at someone in a very public way but it is not OK to say who you are?

I also ask you to think about another thing. The only labels, if any, I have used are in classifying how people deal with conflict. However, there are far worse labels used on this board, where people are called Ns, evil, you name it. Why is it that the particular classification I used triggered you while others did not? Simply because you were not subjected to them? If it feels like family, then what are you doing for all the name calling that is going on the board? Are you not leaving that for Richard to address?

2. Tiffany. During Hurricane Caterina discussion, there were many fallouts between parties other than me and you, and several people left the board, of which you were not one. At the time, I objected to your portrayal of third world countries. the worst I told you was that I will not speak with you. This put both of us and the entire community through some trauma. At the end of it, I sent you a PM apologizing for what I had put us through, and stating that I should have conducted this discussion through PMs. This is exactly what I have personally done, and it is exactly what I am proposing as the preferred mode of communication for interpersonal issues on the board today.

I did not say that we will not need to sort out interpersonal issues. I do question the genuineness of the desire to actually sort them out by airing them in a very public way and balming others. It feels more like bashing than a genuine desire to communicate.

Several weeks ago, you asked me a question on message board and I tried to answer to the best of my ability. Then you sent me a PM calling me names. I informed the administration about this and expressed my desire to have no further contact with you. I was asked by the administration to make it clear to you that I did not wish to speak with you and put you on my ignore list, and I told to notify the administration if you ever try to contact me again on board or ever made defaming comments about me, so that they could ntervene. So that is exactly what I did, put you on my ignore list and told you that I wished no further contact with you. It is clear that we are not communicating, so why not leave each other alone instead of expressing hatred at each other?

I owe no answers to questions about my group to anyone who does not bear it any goodwill.

3. Sugarre, on matter of deleting posts. I don't like when my past posts, an expression of my vulnerability, are used against me. It feels like a violence of highest order. In this particular conflict, the triggering post is up there in its pristine virginity in Struggling to make a decision thread. The only post I have deleted so far in this conflict (other than updates thread) was in Are we OK thread, where I addressed the poster I was have a conflict with directly, telling her that I felt abused and punched etc. I did not wish to leave it there for posterity for others to use this post against her, as seems to be happening quite a lot here, and I simply wished for this to end rather than impose my feelings on the community as Richard already addressed this matter to my satisfaction.

4. As for this particular conflict. I have spoken very few words in my defense and yet I have been told that I silence others. I have been subjected to most cruel namecalling, and yet been told that it is I who ostracizes others. It feels like crazymaking really.

5. I am an academic trained at a male dominated bastion and I use a specific kind of language while engaging in arguments with others. I realize that it feels like a slight to others, even though it is not intended to be. To ask me to change that is to ask me to change my skin. I intend to speak in my own voice and not somebody else's. That, to me, is not voicelessness is all about. I don't understand. For months I am given hugs and told how much I am liked and then one day when I pick words that someone doesn't like, I am called names and I am told that I am ousted as an N?! My olds posts are digged out and used against me! This is not how people acquire a voice -- this is how they learn to stifle voice and speak with somebody else's voice, this is how they stay stuck in their situation, this is how they learn to see Ns all over the place in their world instead of dealing with their own feelings and issues, this is how they learn to feel entitled to blame others rather than introspect. I stand by everything I said in my support group announcement.

6. I neither post anonymously nor have I advanced any accusations on this board at others for doing so. In fact this entire conflict started because I refused to participate in a discussion that had stooped to that level.

I will not be responding any further on this matter. Not because I don't value what you have to say, not because I don't value your feelings, but rather because it appears that you don't value what I have to say or my feelings.

Marta



 
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: herewegoagain on February 14, 2006, 06:18:35 AM
‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’

English philosopher, Erick Burke
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: jordanspeeps on February 14, 2006, 09:25:23 AM
Hi Marta,

Quote
Tiffany. During Hurricane Caterina discussion, there were many fallouts between parties other than me and you, and several people left the board, of which you were not one. At the time, I objected to your portrayal of third world countries. the worst I told you was that I will not speak with you. This put both of us and the entire community through some trauma. At the end of it, I sent you a PM apologizing for what I had put us through, and stating that I should have conducted this discussion through PMs. This is exactly what I have personally done, and it is exactly what I am proposing as the preferred mode of communication for interpersonal issues on the board today.

I did not say that we will not need to sort out interpersonal issues. I do question the genuineness of the desire to actually sort them out by airing them in a very public way and balming others. It feels more like bashing than a genuine desire to communicate.

Several weeks ago, you asked me a question on message board and I tried to answer to the best of my ability. Then you sent me a PM calling me names. I informed the administration about this and expressed my desire to have no further contact with you. I was asked by the administration to make it clear to you that I did not wish to speak with you and put you on my ignore list, and I told to notify the administration if you ever try to contact me again on board or ever made defaming comments about me, so that they could ntervene. So that is exactly what I did, put you on my ignore list and told you that I wished no further contact with you. It is clear that we are not communicating, so why not leave each other alone instead of expressing hatred at each other?   

I did not call you names Marta.  I simply noted a direct inconsistency in your recent posts.  In a former post you, yourself, identified yourself as an atheist, do you remember, you've probably since edited/erased it to cover, but you stated that you were an atheist, but used religious rituals because you find the "rituals" calming.  I confronted you privately only after reading that recent post where you appeared to be thanking God for the gullible nature of some innocents.  You chose to consider this quest for the truth, name-calling and once again declared your desire to never interact with me again.  You also use words like "hatred" to characterize what the I see as attempts to "clear the air" or explain inconsistent/confounding  ideas.

Please be clear, I have no hatred for you Marta.  Hate is such an intense, dangerous emotion, and you my little cyber-lilly could never make me hate you.  Mostly because I totally understand you, now.  I hate you no more than I hate my Nmother, who threatens to ignore me, abandons me, doesn't have desire to hear me out, has exclusive groups, runs away from the truth, preys on the vulnerability and innocence of others, doesn't want others to compare notes on her prior questionable acts, is dishonest, constantly edits her dialogue, and makes a mockery of God (and other esoteric belief systems), practically every day... Love and truth is instead what I meditate upon daily.  I pray that you find them, Marta.  If that other web blog gives you that, Marta, then by all means, GODSPEED.  I wish only the best.

Tiffany

Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: mudpuppy on February 14, 2006, 11:20:04 AM
Well, I'm probably going to get my eyebrows singed for this, but his name was Edmund Burke and he never actually wrote that quote.
Kind of an urban legend, thing.

mud
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: Reality Check on February 14, 2006, 04:08:38 PM
Marta is entitled to feel whatever feelings she has.

What she does not have the right to do is silence other people on this board.

Marta posted a thread that was offensive to many here on the board.  Not all but many.

Marta then locked the thread in the midst of responses, making those who would have liked to respond further unable to do so.

Marta then created a new thread, reposting the thread which she posted initially and locked, updating this board on the progress of her new forum - which will not include many people here - where she informed the board that she will be using this board and this post to update the board on her new forum - which will not include many people here and Marta also locked that thread!

Marta was asked not to do this because it was offensive to many members of the board.  Marta was not asked not to do this because everyone on the board was offended. 

A new thread was started where many spoke about how upset they were with what Marta had done.  Why did Marta not use PMs, which she seems to be advocating the use of, to update her members on the progress of her forum?

Marta is entitled to her feelings but she cannot force people to do what she wants.

If Marta does not want to respond to a thread she has the ability to not post.

If Marta wants to discuss issues in PMs, she has the ability to do so but she cannot force people to comply with her wishes.

Marta does not have the right to force people to speak to her by PMs and if the person she is having an issue with wants to discuss matters on the board, even if Marta disagrees, Marta can only accept that person's right to do so.

Quote
I also ask you to think about another thing. The only labels, if any, I have used are in classifying how people deal with conflict. However, there are far worse labels used on this board, where people are called Ns, evil, you name it. 

It is not enough to say, "But, they did it, too!" 

When dealing with others in an intimate relationship or a group environment in real life or on-line consideration must be given for the feelings of others when the decision being made will affect either the intimate relationship or the entire group - that is the only way any relationship,  group or intimate,  will continue to grow and remain healthy, otherwise the relationsip will corrode and ultimately implode.

As for the other complaints about Marta, it can only be assumed that some people are expressing feelings that they have repressed for some time and they also have that right.

Anonymity is being preserved so that the focus of this issue is not reassigned to one of a personal nature but remains focused on the feelings of many who participate on this board.  I am not presumptuous enough to believe that I speak for all on this board but I am certain that I speak for many whose voices should not be silenced so that others can speak.[/color]

Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: Marta on February 15, 2006, 01:11:51 AM
Dear Reality Check,

Your post pinpoints the difference between us in dealing with conflicts.

You pointed out that I had transgressed. I heard you, I reflected, I agreed with you, I apologized, I recitified the mistake.

I pointed out that others had transgressed in calling names, using my own past posts against me, you had transgressed by posting anonymously. Mind you, these are not only Marta's objections, but are shared by other members and also frequently expressed on the board, also on this thread. These are all very legitimate complaints. But instead of reflecting, you rationalized and placed the blame fairly and squarely on Marta, and you are still repeating what Marta had done wrong, even though she has rectified that mistake.

It is true that I cannot force other people to correspond anger through PMs or be respectful in their communication instead of feeling entitled to call each other names. However, I can create space for people who prefer it that way, and that is what I have done.

Right now I have 300+ posts on the board. You will not find a single one where I have called anyone inappropriate names or used their old posts out of contexts against them or made baseless accusations. You will find several instances where I have apologized. However, I prefer to disengage when others step on my boundaries and express their hurt in a way that is offensive to me, or ask me to accept blame that I feel does not belong to me. That reeks to me of entitlement that is a huge trigger for me given my N upbringing. In my most recent dispute with Portia, I had complimented her in the same thread for her excellent comments, i had engaged with her, I had also not taken offense to some of her statements that I could have been construed as offensive in the same spirit as she had taken offense to mine (for example she told me that she had not read my post she was answering to completely, which could be construed as offensive by some as saying your comments are non-issue to me.) However, I did stop engaging with her when I was subjected to baseless bizarre accusations and asked to defend them. I asked for the right to disengage, and appealed to administration to help me out after six days of being subjected to intense verbal assault.

TIffany, I am respectful of other people's religious preferences, I have never mocked them, nor I am not open for hostile interrogations on my religious preferences. After our disaggreement on Katerina, I have privately and publicly aplogized to you, never initiated any communication with you on board, and tried to answer your question as best as I can when you intiaited it. However, I do draw the line when you call me names. Your PM to me was reviewed by administration and deemed to be inappropriate and upsetting. You have continued to participate in threads started by me even after I notified you that I wanted no contact with you and was putting you on ignore list, and I have expressed no objections to that since the content was not a personal attack. I have never ever made a personal attak on you. Live and let live.

Everyone has feelings, not just those who express them in a very loud or public manner; there are many reasons when one speaks up other than genuine desire for communication; and there are many more ways of silencing other than just locking a thread.
 
Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: write on February 15, 2006, 02:22:51 AM
Marta~

I always think of your name pronounced Martyr; I don't think it's the same name derivative though?

This thread feels to me like: multiple personality posters please stand forward...also that my radar which was triggered a few days ago wasn't so inaccurate after all. Someone is stirring the pot.

Unfortunately it is a typical hiccup to a board like this. PDs seem to attract each other.

However I feel any further reference to an alternative suport group here is counterproductive and I suggest no further mention/ response as a guideline...good luck with it to the people there though.

Title: Re: FOR MARTA - RE: SUPPORT GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT
Post by: herewegoagainTHEORIGINAL on February 15, 2006, 04:13:58 AM
Regarding the posts at the start of the thread. Portia admitted to using different names on the board. That was a fact, which comes from a memory of a posting from quite some time ago. Perhaps Portia remembers it. But the post will be there in the archive.

The original herewegoagin was not Marta.

Marta is entitled to feel whatever feelings she has.

What she does not have the right to do is silence other people on this board.


At no time did Marta silence anyone. It is obvious to me that the poster 'reality check' is in dire need of one. To ,quite frankly, blow this post of martas into this big massive thing is absolutely ridiculous. She had her own reasons and , I think, locked the thread as she knew what she would get. ie a lot of immature,overblown comments designed to put her down.

She knew that much and BOY was she right.

If she want's to start another board what's the problem? She can and will do it, anyone who wants to join is welcome. BIG DEAL.

"OH MY GOD. I HAVE BEEN RENDERED VOICELESS" BIG POWERFUL MARTA HAS DESTROYED ME BY LOCKING A THREAD ! MY LIFE IS OVER. I HAVE TO NOW FORCEFULLY PROVE THAT MARTA IS A RUBBISH PERSON"

I have rarely witnessed anything so childish. See below :-

Marta was asked not to do this because it was offensive to many members of the board.  Marta was not asked not to do this because everyone on the board was offended. 

A new thread was started where many spoke about how upset they were with what Marta had done.  Why did Marta not use PMs, which she seems to be advocating the use of, to update her members on the progress of her forum?

Marta is entitled to her feelings but she cannot force people to do what she wants.

If Marta does not want to respond to a thread she has the ability to not post.

If Marta wants to discuss issues in PMs, she has the ability to do so but she cannot force people to comply with her wishes.

Marta does not have the right to force people to speak to her by PMs and if the person she is having an issue with wants to discuss matters on the board, even if Marta disagrees, Marta can only accept that person's right to do so.


I just wanted to quote this because it is a brilliant example of someone who has been 'triggered' by something. Someone who is 'projecting' onto someone else - accusing them and turning something simple - likethe idea for a different message board - into something it is not. 'Marta can't force people to do what she wants' but I can tell marta exactly what to do, in great detail?

Absolute hypocritical rubbish. I know it doesn't matter what I say, as the person who wrote this will not be able to 'see the light' and it will only result in more of the same, ridiculous logic.

Also to take a checklist of a personality disorder and post it saying that another poster has it can only be taken as deliberately insulting. I can only say to this that I always find that those in glass houses always seem to throw stones :)



I think Marta has defended herself in an exemplary manner,unlike others on the board.





I am also well aware that this post can also be ran through the same process of thought involved ie my words and intentions can also be twisted.