Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Surrounded as guest on February 13, 2006, 02:20:16 PM
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OK just a question. Has anyone had their N insist (almost demand)you tell them how you feel about people in your past who abused you emotionally(parents, siblings), agreed with you that your feelings were justified (over and over), pretending to care. Said they were your best friend, your biggest supporter......ETC!
But the moment you bring out anything about them THEY do to hurt you, actual rude, dominating, inconsiderate, manipulative, abusive stuff, or try to stand up for yourself, they go ballistic calling YOU crazy and YOU need help. YOU must have a chemical imbalance because......"booo hooo---my family did this, or my family did that"
Over and over again. Screaming in your face how CRAZY you are. How insane you are. How you can't make any decisions in this "condition". He (husband) won't go anywhere until I get therapy. Which I am--just started. The therapist mentioned the Walking on Eggshells book I was reading after ONE session. H noticed I was reading this book (whenever he will LET me read) and then starts yelling at me claiming HE has been walking on eggshells around ME for 15+ years. This from the guy who has just been writing me "love" notes last week telling me how compassionate I have always been towards him and he is so grateful for me in his life and ETC.
(I actually told him to move out---I sent him a text wich was cowardly I know, but I am afraid of his rage so I saw no choice. He won't go....he just FREAKED out, raced home, busted into the house, chased me into our room, screamed at me for hours in front of the kids and refused to leave. Just called me crazy and tells me I am not loving enough to him. (Sorry for being slightly detached to protect myself) Oh and then says I do things to bother him too, but he just won't say right now. I beg him and he won't say anything anymore after three hours of SCREAMING at me what a total CRAZY, INSANE, LAZY, MEAN, HORRIBLE person I am and have always been. There's more, but he won't say.....
And I did my share of yelling too---- in defense. Told him about utterly rude and awful things he has done as examples of his behavior I am sick of. He is very upset I would be mad about these things. Upset I actually had mean thoughts after his behavior and told him so. Hurt and betrayed and pouting. I remember what I said during our fight and I meant them. He claims he can't remember these times and now he can't rememer what he said during our fight and he didn't mean them. Well, sorry too late. I am willing to take the heat for what I said. He isn't. He brings up what I said to hurt him, but can't seem to remember what he said.
Then calms down and says he can't remember saying any of the things he said. He didn't mean them and I should TRUST him to tell him how I feel about my family of origin again. He is my best friend and really cares. He dragged this stuff out of me in the first place. He sees me not acting like his little wind-up doll and so he pushes and pushes ans pushes until I break down. Obviously I can't say anything about him bothering me, so I say something about my family of origin.
How can he use that stuff against me like that? Call me crazy? Tell me he thinks I should not be estranged from my family and friends right now, he doesn't agree with that. What he doesn't realize is that.....I have to put those issues with them aside because I only have the mental strength and energy to deal with HIM on a daily basis. I simply try to hold center every day with him in my home. The slightest flinch in my armour will send him on my case like a magnet. Like he smells blood. I feel if I am acting "off" it is to deal with him. I try to tell him I am warm when I am acting(pretending everything is ok) and cool when I am trying to detach from his emotional abuse or a seriously hurtful thing he has done. He can never understand why what he does is hurtful. He just claims I am too sensitive. I have to expalin it with specific examples and then he says I can't bring this stuff up from the past. I don't even want to, but he says WHAT, WHAT do I do? I can't believe I have to explain common appropriate behavior to him. Common courtesy towards me and his kids.
Nope.....no can do. I am hurting him cause I am not being loving ENOUGH! I am getting on his case and he is just way too stressd out to handle this right now. Can't I see that he is stressed out?? Don't I care about him? I have put my issues aside for 15+ years because I have tried to be there for him. Tried to love him in sprite of anything and everything. The chaos in our lives. Losing homes and cars, and having 6 kids, and his family disfunction problems, financial devastation, self employed, running a business, debt up to our eyeballs and beyond, lawsuits, church obligations, family obligations, pornography addiction, rage issues, ....this STUFF in INSANE. NOT me. Not for saying ENOUGH. Not for telling him I can't have him destroy our lives anymore. He needs to get out and work like he needs to. To clean up the messes HE has made. Know what he says to me??? I haven't done enough. Never enough. I run around frazzled and supportive and keep my mouth shut and love him and basically raise our 6 childrenb y myself, and help run the business, and keep the house clean like he likes it, and bring him his meals ,and have sex when, how ,and where he wants it..... and I have not done enough. I am being a baby and a nuisance for daring to say anything. I already know he thinks I don't do any of it WELL enough. He makes that clear.
He thinks he can say anything he wants in rage and then just say he doesn't remember or he didn't mean it. IF I ever say anything to him, I mean it and that is why I try to shut up and deal within myself BEFORE I say awful things...he thinks I am being cold for that.
He says one thing and does another. His actions don't match his words.
He goes to his mom and sisters behind my back and tells them who-knows-what about me. (But insists I talk to no one about HIM) Everyone in his family gossips behind my back cause of course he has painted me out to be CRAZY! He does nothing. (He acts like a saint in front of everyone else.) I know this cause they gossip about everyone. And they all stick together. They treat their spouses like dirt and then if the spouse reacts in any way, well, then THEY are the NUTJOBS.
The morning after our fight(Sat), his family calls to tell him that one of the sisters husband tried to commit suicide by overdose the night before. I am not surprised at all. He has turned to alcohol and pain killers to cope with her. But they all sit and have CONFERENCE calls about what a jerk addict HE is. They all know how blatantly difficult she is, but NO ONE will admit it. Not even behind her back. I tried to say it once to my H and he was very protective and offended. Now I just tell him I want nothing to do with it. Don't even want to hear about it. He is one the phone daily with mommy about one thing or another. She leads him around by the nose. Talks about everyone, divulges very private info to whoever she wants and then has the gall to hug and play the saint, supportive, angel, funny, kind, loving mom. Whatever. I haven't bought her act for years. Two-faced.
Anywho.....now I am just ranting. Sorry about that. I have to get all this out sometimes.
I started this thread out basically trying to ask this simple question. If my H is not an N----what IS he?
Or what am I? Really, CRAZY?? An N??? Too demanding? A jerk? Now he has me spinning chasing my tail trying to figure out where my constant attempts at perfection with him have come up short? He won't say. Maybe I am---I THINK I know better, but........................could he be right? AM I chemicaly imbalanced? (this idea he gets from his mother) Now he has me second guessing my every move. I thought I had every base covered!!! To keep the peace.
And now I made up with him to keep the peace since he wouldn't leave.....he says don't worry about it. He will tell me if I do anything "wrong". I keep thinking...is this it? is this it? is this?
Is this the peace I need? If he wants me to be well, then why treat me this way? Do you call a CRAZY person CRAZY?? Do you NOT be a soft place to fall? Do you tell them you are too stressed out by other things to deal with them and they need to stop it? Do you call them names and then scream at them so bad they have to shove you or throw a hand at you to get you out of thier face--and then claim they hit you and it hurt? (He's got 50+ pounds on me) Do you see they are hurting and then push every button to get them to fall apart and then use it against them? Do you rip them completely personally apart and then say you love them with all your heart and expect them to say it back? Heavens I could surely go on, but this is long enough by now.
Thanks to all for a soft place to fall. And thanks for letting me know if you think I am crazy too. I just need feedback I feel is honest. I feel I can trust you guys for that.
I do know I need to be away from him to sort this stuff out but he wont go. He is definitely not helping. I don't want a scene in front of the kids. Again.
Thanks. thanks thanks thanks. I am sorry this is long!!!!
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Hiya Surrounded
I apologise I haven't had time to read this thoroughly but through reading it a couple questions immediately popped into my head, which you don't have to answer here, but maybe will give you something to think about.
1. Do you think your crazy? Your honest feeling in your gut? What is it telling you?
2. Why are you with him? What does he do for you, not everyday things, but emotionally, nurturing, helping you grow?
Take care
H&H xx
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(((Surrounded)))
I feel sick. Really. That this...this PERSON should attack you and make you feel this way is sickening to me.
You are not the bad person in this relationship - he is. He is abusive, controlling and a selfish bully.
He is keeping you off-balance in an attempt to keep you under control and second-guessing yourself, which is exactly what you are doing. It is a classic abuser move to blame YOU for their problems: "I got angry and did xyz because you don't love me enough!"
Unfortunately, he has never had to answer for any of it - his behavior is reinforced by his family, and you have given up your sense of self and so much more trying to make it work.
There isn't going to be any "lightbulb moment" where he will suddenly realize how awful he has been to you, your children and your family unit. There probably isn't anything you can do or say to make him "better". It sounds like he is just getting worse.
I hope your therapy goes well... and you can get some help to kick him to the curb!
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I don't have enough time to give your post the justice it deserves, so I will just say that if it makes you feel any better at all: I could have written your post word for word. My (thank God) EXbf did exactly what you just describe. You need to stay strong. You are not crazy. My ex has told a lot of people (his family especially) that I am diagnosed schizophrec, autistic and bi-polar. I am genuinely none of those things. I am not on medication, I am not even depressed. I have been depressed in the past and it was awful, so for him to use all this against me is awful. Your husband is doing the same thing.
For now I am giving you real big hugs... I will come back tomorrow and write more, but you are not crazy he is. Who was the one who chased who, shouting and screaming???
Take care
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Surrounded,
Your nerves must be soooo frayed after years of treatment like this.
Your anguish and fury are marks of sanity, imho. It's a weird NON-crazy "craziness" when one reacts to that sort of abuse by acting out oneself.
Those screaming arguments have to be devastating for you. And I can't imagine what they are doing to your children.
You and they deserve a peaceful life...not possible with him.
I have put my issues aside for 15+ years because I have tried to be there for him. Tried to love him in sprite of anything and everything. The chaos in our lives. Losing homes and cars, and having 6 kids, and his family disfunction problems, financial devastation, self employed, running a business, debt up to our eyeballs and beyond, lawsuits, church obligations, family obligations, pornography addiction, rage issues, ....this STUFF in INSANE. NOT me. Not for saying ENOUGH. Not for telling him I can't have him destroy our lives anymore. He needs to get out and work like he needs to. To clean up the messes HE has made. Know what he says to me??? I haven't done enough.
It IS insane. And you're not. (But you must be exhausted.)
I wish you a way out. Have you any thoughts on what the first steps could be?
Hopalong
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Surrounded,
Hang in there. I don't post much anymore unless a post really pushes my buttons like this one did. This sounds so much like my wife's behavior. She knows I am always (ALWAYS!) wrong but can't ever tell me how, and NEVER remembers the horrible things she says and does to me! I have come to the conclusion that she does this because she believes she HAS TO in order to survive and so little things like my feelings or worth just can't compare to that. I can tell her what she has done that I don't like, but she is still not able to discuss it because, "that didn't happen." I basically got to the point where I didn't care whether I was hallucinating everything or not, it is my life and I'm going to live it according to my own experience! Besides, I finally became convinced that trying to live according to her crazy ways just wouldn't ever work for me. :shock:
As I re-read your post again, it sends shivers down my spine. Somewhere there is a playbook and these people all read from it.
He thinks he can say (or do--longtire) anything he wants in rage and then just say he doesn't remember or he didn't mean it.
He says one thing and does another. His actions don't match his words.
I was questioning my decision to leave my marriage until it all came crashing back in when I read your post. I'm glad I got this wake up call tonight. I tend to slip into idealistic thinking about my saving this relationship until something reminds me that is codependency talking and I am NOT superman. I can only work through my own issues, not hers.
Or what am I? Really, CRAZY?? An N??? Too demanding? A jerk? Now he has me spinning chasing my tail trying to figure out where my constant attempts at perfection with him have come up short? He won't say. Maybe I am---I THINK I know better, but........................could he be right? AM I chemicaly imbalanced? (this idea he gets from his mother) Now he has me second guessing my every move. I thought I had every base covered!!! To keep the peace.
He has you right where he wants you, off-balance and easy to control with a nudge here and a criticism there. It sounds like you are just exhausted, drained, and fed up with dealing with your husband's poor behavior. Both his behavior and your confusion and reactions to it sound very familiar.
I have come to believe that my wife has Borderline PD (BPD) or something essentially the same. A lot of the the things you describe about your husband's behavior sound very familiar. Actually almost everything sounds the same. Ooh... more chills.
I would add another couple of books to check out: (Like you have all the energy and time to sit around and read all these books, still...)
"Tears and Healing," Richard 21CP
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship," Patricia Evans
"Codependent No More," Melody Beattie
And a couple of really good websites:
www.tearsandhealing.com
www.drirene.com
www.bpdcentral.com
www.bpdresources.com
Even though you can't see how right now, you are stronger than you can imagine and all the things you think you've lost forever are still right there waiting for you to rediscover them again. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more offline. Oh, and keep ranting and letting off steam as much as you need here!
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Hi Surrounded,
I'm so glad you are venting. Your situation is so toxic, I just have no idea how you cope from day to day. When you get yourself and your time and your life back, you are going to be dynamite!
Your H is crazy. What a sick man. But not you. I cannot say anything more than what others have said. But I can see that you are somehow staying sane in an insane situation. Kudos.
Plucky
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I just have to login quick here, while I have a sec, to say THANK YOU!!!!!!
You ALL are the BEST ------and your words are heard and appreciated! I will stay posted when I can.
Have a great day!
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(((((((((((((((((((Surrounded)))))))))))))))))))))))))),
So glad to hear from you again.
Yes, you do have a chemical imbalance..........OF TESTOSTERONE(the BAD kind guys)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've seen our similarities in previous posts and man do they SUCK!!
Just called me crazy and tells me I am not loving enough to him.
We can NEVER love them ENOUGH!
Now he has me second guessing my every move. I thought I had every base covered!!! To keep the peace.
Yes!!!!! They are MASTERS at having us second guess ourselves.
He thinks he can say anything he wants in rage and then just say he doesn't remember or he didn't mean it. Then calms down and says he can't remember saying any of the things he said.
HMMM, sounds VERY familiar... :x
The slightest flinch in my armour will send him on my case like a magnet. Like he smells blood.
Ditto. And he would also smell when my "tanks were full" and come around and suck them dry w/ his neediness
And the BIGGEST ONE:so he pushes and pushes ans pushes until I break down
I used to describe mine as a bulldog that wouldn't let go. He finds a spot, latches on, and shakes and shakes until you are full of blood and he's down to the bone and you say UNCLE!
Hang in there and PLAN, PLAN, PLAN
Movinon
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To answer: In order I hope.
Healing&Hopeful:
No---I do not in my gut feel I am crazy. But he would like me to-eh?
And as to what he does for me? He claims he is nurturing me and really is smothering me-----like Pepe Le Peu(not sure on spelling)----that skunk who won't leave the cat alone. Icky!!
My T says he is like my personal trainer working those weak muscles, ya I see, but what to do when those muscles are "ripped"? Or I am just plain tired of the sh!t.
That is what I am trying to iron out. I have so many lives to consider--so many angles to try to see. I just can't seem to make sense of it sometimes. I am definitely scared of being labeled the "Bit**" by being assertive, but I am slowly coming to grips with that fear too.
Thanks for the questions, I need help thinking straight sometimes.
Take Care---and Thanks
Surrounded
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Sugarbear,
Thanks for your support, your post made me tear up a little. He is throwing me off balance and I see that. Everything I try seems to bring out a new tactic from him and when I think I am prepared for him, he brings a new one out of his bag of tricks.
As far as therapy goes, I'm new to that and I don't expect answers from the T, but I talk so much that he hasn't been able to say too much yet I think. Maybe I oughta shut up and listen.
I do know that he sees my dilemna of ripping a large family unit apart. And verifying that I am dealing with an N here. And how difficult that is and will be.
I am reading about Malignant Self Love today and getting a little sick because it describes so much of my life!
The fact that there won't be a lightbulb moment---yeah, I have been thinking that but been in denial about it----that one hit home. I have always hung on, just hoping I could change him.
Now I just plan for brighter days. Hopefully sooner than later.
Thanks so much
Take care
Surrounded
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Cadbury
Thanks for the hugs!!!!! I can only imagine what is being discussed behind my back with his family. The sickening two-facedness of it is about more than I can take. Hug ya when they see ya and they rip you apart behind your back. OOOOOHHHHHH!!! Maddening!
Glad you got out of it. Earlier than me. Wish I coulda seen it before I made this fine mess for myself. But how could I??? I married my N mom, it felt so natural.
What is making me wake up right now???? Don't know, but I do know, I have to listen to my heart. And it is saying goodbye to this maddness. I feel my very health and sanity are on the line.
He likes to point out I have shouted at him a lot lately. True. But only when pushed to the limit BY HIM!!! How do I say that and not sound blaming? Guess I don't. He is the perpetrator here, I have only recently pushed his buttons and seen the moster come out in full costume. Yuck.
Then he makes sure the kids see him present me with every gift in the Valentines handbook----so they can see how great dad is, and how bananas mom must be.
They know. I just have to trust they know the truth.
Anyway, thanks again.....
Take Care
Surrounded
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(((((((Hopalong)))))))))
(((((((jacmac)))))))))))
(((((((bean))))))))))))
(((((((longtire)))))))))
(((((((Plucky)))))))))
(((((((movinon))))))))
Thanks so much!
Gotta go for a bit, but I definitely want to respond to you guys. I'll be back when I can sneak a minute. Your support is immeasurable.
Take care all
Surrounded
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Surrounded,
Is your therapist trained in N issues?
Movinon
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He has acknowledged that my H seems to be an N. I have't asked what training he has had on the this disorder other than that.
As far as these idiot husbands and almost X for you, seems we can never do ENOUGH of anything---can we???
I love your full tank analogy. He is always claiming I heal him, I am his strength......yeah....you vampire !!! Stop sucking the life outta me!
Glad to hear your daughter is OK. From your other posts. Don't look forward to that part of my struggle to get away from him. Great to see someone who is showing him who is boss. Good for you! Keep up the great work!!
Take Care
Surrounded
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Hopalong
I know what my next moves are. I know you don't want to nag, but I know what you are saying. No worries, I am on it. Just venting. And as far as screaming in front of the children, thanks to my efforts, that was really the first time. I can take credit for that.
Strangely enough, they almost seemed relieved. Like the other shoe dropped finally and I took a stand. Maybe it was good. I know weird to say, but I suspect they learned something.
I always appreciate our input annd encouragment.
Take Care
Surrounded
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Jacmac
You nailed it! Way to put it in simple easy one-liners that just say it all.
AND....I was at my local booksore trying to find those very books on Mon. They did not have them in. I am searching though. I really want to read them. I know they will help!
Thanks so much1
Take Care
Surrounded
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Bean
Nope, nowhere to go. I have tried leaving and going to my parents, a few years back. But my mom is an N and I realized in about an hour, I would rather take my chances with this beast than that one. Not much of a choice really. Kinda sad.
I am working on a plan right now, and it isn't happening fast enough. Tomorrow isn't fast enough. But my day will come. I am looking towards that glimmer of hope and it keeps me going.
You guys all keep me going!!
Plucky
You I think about a lot and I wonder how it is going with your decision. It seems to have been swept aside with all the other stuff going on on the board right now. I always appreciate your kind words and I hope you will keep us posted!
Take Care
Surrounded
((((((((Longtire))))))))
I am doing my homework you gave me. I really want to respond to you. I will be in touch as soon as i can give you some better time. In the meantime, you take care of you. Are you with your wife now. Or did you go? Sorry, I am new and I wasn't clear.
Anyway, hang on....I want to talk to you. It's 3 am now and I better get back to bed before I have a monster in my face.
Thanks for your post and help
You are appreciated. :P
Take Care
Surrounded
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((((((((Longtire))))))))
I am doing my homework you gave me. I really want to respond to you. I will be in touch as soon as i can give you some better time. In the meantime, you take care of you. Are you with your wife now. Or did you go? Sorry, I am new and I wasn't clear.
Anyway, hang on....I want to talk to you. It's 3 am now and I better get back to bed before I have a monster in my face.
Thanks for your post and help
You are appreciated. :P
Take Care
Surrounded
Surrounded, my comments are intended to help, not dump more burdens on you. You don't owe me anything. :) And I'll be still be here. Don't worry about replying on my account, only if and when it helps you.
I moved out about 9 months ago and things have been getting better every day and week for me! :D Your mileage may vary. It took me a loooong time to get to that point, though. I am now in the process of divorcing my wife. I am waiting for a reply from her to see if she is willing or able to work things out between us. If I don't get a reply soon I will force the issue with a phone call. If she is not able or willing to work things out at this point I will have my lawyer file. It has been 4+ months since I told her I wanted a divorce and she said she would think about what she wanted. I don't think I am pushing her too fast, at least by my standards. Maybe too fast for her...
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It's cool longtire! 8)
It is just that your post was very encouraging to me and I wanted to make sure you knew that. I wanted you to know I have been reading up on BPD and I see that in him too. I think it is maybe BPD with N tendencies, or something.
I want to wish you well in your journey and tell you to hold strong. It is good in a way to know someone out there who can understand, but it also tugs at my heart to know someone has suffered these same things. I would not wish that on anyone.
And the "playbook" thing? Funny----and creepy. :(
I don't mean to sound too busy, just scared of danger in my home. I have to be sneaky which I hate, but find necessary right now. So sorry if I come across a little odd.
I appreciate your input and hope I didn't offend. No reply necessary, I am probably just paranoid. Just knowing you guys are out there listening is SO HELPFUL. And I hang on every word. :P
Sometimes I get so confused and can't make sense in my mind or with my conscience, especially when I seem to have a master mind manipulator here to mess with me daily. :? :shock:
And so.....
You take care. And Thank you!!!
Surrounded
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To answer: In order I hope.
Healing&Hopeful:
No---I do not in my gut feel I am crazy. But he would like me to-eh?
And as to what he does for me? He claims he is nurturing me and really is smothering me-----like Pepe Le Peu(not sure on spelling)----that skunk who won't leave the cat alone. Icky!!
My T says he is like my personal trainer working those weak muscles, ya I see, but what to do when those muscles are "ripped"? Or I am just plain tired of the sh!t.
That is what I am trying to iron out. I have so many lives to consider--so many angles to try to see. I just can't seem to make sense of it sometimes. I am definitely scared of being labeled the "Bit**" by being assertive, but I am slowly coming to grips with that fear too.
Thanks for the questions, I need help thinking straight sometimes.
Take Care---and Thanks
Surrounded
Surrounded
I'm so pleased you answered these.
I thinkl that our gut feelings, our deep feelings in the pit of our stomachs, are honest and should be listened by ourselves regardless of what anyone else is telling us. I feel like cheering reading this response from you.
Re: the second question... yes your H may think he's being nurturing.... but what do you think? The reason why I'm asking is because I feel that when we spend years dealing with what they have told us, we deal with things the way they have told us to, if that makes any sense. We kinda lose our own identity and I feel that it is really important to get that back, that what we think about something, even when we are used to it being about them, but to say, yes I think this, rather than my H believes this. Make any sense.... not sure, but I hope so.
Take care
H&H xx
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Hey, Surrounded. Just got my head out of my own butt long enough to read this thread.
I am reading this thread with such renewed memories of my own "escape" from my ex 10 years ago....but as we well know, when you share kids with someone, they never really go away (darnit).
My ex isolated me. As a matter of fact, he is remarried, and now so am I, but he still wants me away from my family (and now husband!!) and has stopped me from leaving here with the kids so that I could be with my support (but he gets to leave the country whenever he wants for as long as he wants).
What blew me away was that even though I finally got away from him in divorce, he has used the children to punish me for another 10 years!
Even though he cheated on me, berated me daily, was verbally and emotionally abusive....I had to leave him ( I mean , why would he leave...he had it just the way he wanted it....with my fear based compliance).
But leaving an N is just not something you are suppose to do, you know! They get to decide whether or not to leave. My leaving my ex, meant I was taking my power back.....and that was a HUGE threat to him.
When you told me about your kids being picked on, I didn't understand the connection, but now I think I do. I hope you know that they will start to own their power when they see you do so. (you did note that there was relief when you stood up for yourself). Of course this will not stop jerks from being jerks in or out of school, but they may learn to stick up for themselves a little better if you do.
I know this is a tough time...but it is possible to get through all of this, with your children intact, and your sanity. (oh, my ex did the same stuff about "you are losing your mind....you are such a baby.....what 's wrong with you.....you're reaction to what I did is not normal....")
Yeah yeah yeah...out of the mouth of a psychopath!
Please know I am with you on this....right there, like a powerful angel....holding you up. I think you can count on everyone here to send you the strength you need to find your way. Bless you. Sending love, light and POWER.
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Oh, and NOW he is pushing for me to get meds. Mr. ANTI-medication for as long as I have known him...is bugging me to get to the doctor because he thinks I need mood meds. Chemical/hormonal imbalance ya know.
"Cause he can just tell there is something not quite right with me."
I feel like screaming in his face that IF I need meds, it's because of HIM. I don't know why I haven't become a something-aholic by now already. I do have a finger problem which seems to afflict me whenever he leaves the room though. :lol:
Thanks for the continued support and advice!
Take care.
Surrounded
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Surrounded,
Oh my! You could have written about my life with my NH, whom I have just been separated from for almost 4 months. Oh, he is good!! and it IS crazymaking. You are NOT the one who is crazy, and I agree with those who have written here that he is PROJECTING onto you. All he accuses you of, he is describing himself!!! Listen carefully when he says awful things to you, that's HIMSELF he's talking about. He doesn't want to look at himself. Much easier & less painful for him to send it all to you, rather than face himself. From my perspective, & in my opinion, yes, he is N, but he could also be BP, and all this is VERY ABUSIVE!!
The books recommended here are excellent. I have two more to add, "Walking on Eggshells" by Mason & Kreger, and "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. I am actually going to look for Bancroft's book, haven't read this one. You are caught in the 'Cycle of Abuse'....and I know that I suffered from 'Stockholm Syndrome'.
Only when I was put in the position to chose, 'do I move with my NH & his son, and continue to be abused verbally/emotionally' (even if he did promise to go to therapy....a TRICK on his part), OR, do I find my own place, where my own sons have a place to stay over (23 & 21), & come to freely, risking losing him. Well, I haven't heard from him in almost 4 months, NC. THAT tells alot, after 12 years (only 3yrs. living together). I made the right decision. But, my oh my, I was so loyal to him, put up with such crap for so many years, the attempt to CONTROL me (using my sons) , and I thought if I loved him enough, cooked good meals, kept the house nice, listened to him, bla bla bla, that all would work out. NOPE! He is a N, and possibly BP, and probably has an OCPD to boot! He's mentally ill.....crazy....whatever we want to call it.
So, Surrounded, you are NOT crazy, HE is! I am wondering if all 6 children are all yours together, or are some yours and some his? Is there any chance you can GET OUT? LEAVE? I know, that one can only do all this, when one is ready, so I want to be gentle with you, as I know how hard it is. He isn't going to change, cause he isn't taking responsibility for himself, he's blaming you, finding fault with you. And, none of this is your fault....they are HIS issues, and his alone. Oh, I did yell sometimes (out of frustration), and I wasn't perfect either (as someone said here, we're human), but the anger, the control, the always finding things to be pissed off about.....not my stuff, and neither is it yours.
I'm sure you are a wonderful person. Do you have someone to talk to? A therapist/counsellor? Good for you coming here, and to start reading...he won't understand it though, and will feel you are finding fault/criticising him....cause, sadly, IT'S ALL about HIM!! always!!! Look after YOU, YOU are important, you are wonderful, and you count FIRST!!!! as do your own kids!!
I'm here for you! PIP
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Surrounded, someone gave me the book "Crazy Time" after my second divorce. Wish I had read it after my first. In it, though, there is a lot about how people can really make each other feel crazy. And how getting to the bottom of our reasons for marrying those people can save us from that.
Hang in there, hope your weekend is safe and sane. Love the finger thing....I had that condition, too!!! (only mine involved faces and whole body movements...yes, I was "crazy" too).
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Hey Surrounded,
I'm just thinking of you. Hope you've had a moment or two this weekend when you've been able to carve out some calm for yourself, and life seems to slip open for a minute, and give you a glimpse of peace...in the future if not this moment.
I know it's going to come real, and just want to send some encouragement. Every little moment that you keep your eyes on the prize, you are building your freedom and peace.
It's going to come, you're making it happen.
Faith in you,
Hops
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One thing that has helped me in moments like this is to trust my body. MY BODY somehow always seems to know the right thing to do. Like when the person who is toxic to you begins to do something unacceptable, your body will tell you what to do. Listen to it.
Mine usually tells me to leave the situation. But, alot of times, intuition will tell me whether raging back will work, or some logical tactic.
With a narcissist, abandonment (threatening to leave) usually does the trick. Have you done this? What is the result? ("That is unacceptable. I am leaving until we can talk calmly.")
Usually, instantly, the person will resume normal conversation. ("What's the problem? We can work this out.") They get so terrified of your leaving them.
The other thing that works is reinforcing your boundaries. The N. tramples boundaries. You MUST put yours up and make them strong. The only way to make sure he knows you have strong boundaries is to TELL him, with no doubt. ("I will not listen to that. When you are willing to speak logically, I will again listen." or "I do not allow people to accuse me of ....X....with no reason. That won't work with me." ETC.)
There are specific tactics which, when utilized, give you POWER. And not just with N's. With anyone in conversation. People will try to bulldoze you when things get emotional. Don't allow it.
Be in control of yourself and the conversation. If you EVER feel yourself stooping to the tactics you despise, STOP immediately. Get out, and come back later.
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Hi Surrounded,
thanks for thinking about me. I have not actually progressed but am still planning to go to therapy with my H to see if there is a shred of a chance.
Mainly I am trying to get my son back on track and deal with my other child's new issues at school. If only there were more hours in the day! How does a parent of 6 do it! I am amazed by you!
a whiny
Plucky
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Hello again everyone!!
I have been way for a while. You know how these twits (Ns) can comsume so much energy and time!
AAAARRRGH!!!!
I so much appreciate everyone's care and concern. I feel sometimes like a jerk because I have so little advise to give anyone else. I can't cope with my life, so I apologize for being so needy and unhelpful to others on this board. Like advise from me would be logical. HAha! :lol: :shock:
One thing (of many) that has happened while I've been gone is my husband got totally ticked at me for doing ONE thing without his permission. Going to a viewing where I wasn't "allowed". His own cousin passed away. He was willing to NOT go to a family funeral and viewing just to keep me away cause he was afraid I still had feelings for someone that would be there. LOOOOOOOOOOOONG story.
I told him I went to the viewing and people wanted to know where he was so I told them he would be at the funeral the next morning. He would not speak to me, but went, pouting the whole way there and through the service and even tried to start an emotional argument on the way to the cemetary. Poor him---ya know. I didn't give in to his games and I just treated him like an angel. I was extremely nice and loving. More so than usual. Trying to reassure him----just for peace. I think he would have caused a scene had I not done so.
Anyway....
He was so upset, he decided to dump me that night. I come home from taking our daughter shopping for her birthday the next morning, thinking all is fine. He is in the bedroom pouting in the dark. He is supposed to be taking care of the 5 kids at home. He tells me he doesn't think we are going to make it.
BUT, it was the night before our daughters 14th birthday, and he knew he was just scaring me back into submission and he could just apologize before morning and I would take him back because he knows I will never allow something like that to happen on one of my (our)kids birthdays.
He then chastises me for not fighting to keep him. I was actually relieved for a minute until the reality that he was just toying with me set in. I wanted to dance, but didn't. Did allow myself a tiny jig fully knowing it was only a hint of the happiness I could feel------ if he really did go.
The whole time he was "dumping me" he just simply sat there as a matter of fact telling me that he was so sorry that he drove me nuts and I hated him so bad. Basically just blaming me for everything, accusing me of being mean and unreasonable. And please lets not fight---(fine with me!) And please let's not be bitter---(fine with me too).
Just please GO!!! He also said I was sooooo nice to him that day, and I WAS---that he just didn't know when I was going to "turn on him again". (Oh---you mean---NOT kiss your butt again?????) Because of course I am the rotten one, you know.
I have actually gotten some blessing of peace this last few days. I have been listening to Co-Dependency No More on my ipod and it is SOOOOO me it is like a mirror. The only thing that keeps bothering me while I listen over and over, is.......he is not and has never been alcoholic. But his behavior is mostly the same. I react and feel the same. I am grappling with trying to figure this one out. What in the world explains this?? Are narcissists like alcoholics? I don't even know what questions to ask. It's just too weird!
He is a SOMETHING-AHOLIC!!!! But what???????? And why does it affect me like it does? Any ideas?
Thanks again for the place to unload a little. One day I hope to be able to feel like I can help someone. I can't even explain the guilt I feel for what seems to me to be taking your time and advice and not being able to help anyone back. Typical. Must be why I don't talk to anyone in person. I feel they might just run if I let them get a glimpse of my trouble and anguish. It is pretty heavy crap for those who probably don't understand or feel like they need to rescue me.
You are all ANGELS!!!! Thanks so much for listening!
Everyone Take Care!!
Surrounded
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PIP
Yes, they are all both of our kids together. That's why I am still hanging in. I can't seem to get past the hope of having a happily ever after or at least while the kids grow up. Each day I get through, but I want to gag thinking of another tomorrow. Or another. and another year or so makes me want to vomit.
He likes to makes little comments lately to keep me upset or something. Like..".only unhappy people cheat. No one ever cheated said their marriage was going fine."
...or.....I am getting in shape so the chicks will "dig" me. He tells that to the kids in front of me after he gets off the treadmill. I decide to play along a little later and ask why he said that and he says......"oh, you DO CARE!"
PIG!!
I have read Walking on Eggshells and it is spooky how I can relate to that too.
Wow---I have so much to read and do! Eeeek!