Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: healme on April 15, 2006, 08:46:53 PM
-
I have struggled with depression off and on since I was 19 (now 38). I would say that my depression is probably at an all time high now. It is really bad. I just sit. I have taken meds two separate times before and they did help me. But I took them without therapy.
My husband and T (who is new to me) want me to go on meds again. I say no because it will just cover up my feelings. But the deeper I dig, the worse the depression seems to be.
Does anyone have any experience with Therapy and meds? Won't they make me feel better and then I will think that I don't need T anymore?
I really want to work thru these feelings but would I make more progress if I was on meds?
I am confused......
-
Hi Healme,
I only have experience with meds not therapy. It felt to me like the meds didn't cover up my feelings but rather lifted a veil (this was about 7 or 8 years ago). It seemed freeing at the time. I went off them because of an insurance snafu where it wouldn't be covered for 11 months and I felt we couldn't afford that expense. It was not a good idea the way I went about it--just stopped them cold. I think it led to some kind of "backlash" with my emotions.
Sunk into a deep depression after my father died nearly a year and a half ago. I decided to let myself feel the way I felt and try to learn from it. Noticed the depression lifting this past January. If I had never been on meds I might not know what to look for as far as the difference between being depressed and not being depressed. However, I did give myself a time limit. If this last depression had continued until the two year mark or got even worse, I would've called somebody. Too much can go wrong if the depression gets too deep or too out of control.
How long have you been feeling this way? It seems very severe from what you say. If if were me I wouldn't take such a risk. Maybe take the advice of your T and husband and give yourself a leg up. It doesn't seem like you're getting better this way. It seems like toughing it out is not working. Being on meds doesn't have to be forever.
Regardless of what you decide, I send my very best to you, Healme.
Pennyplant
-
Hi Healme How long have you been depressed ? I am Bi polar and that is a mood disorder so I kind of go back an forth from depression to manic .The talk therapy plus the meds are working now .
I do become afraid sometimes for no reason but that has more to do with N dad original family stuff than meds. Rather than what is happening in my life at this time which is good family life
Please it does seem like you need therapy and meds. I want to tell you I have always come thur depression and lifted myself out of it.The therapy and meds have helped me even when I thought this is not going to help at all I still went and quess what it did help. I just kept going and it got better.With my meds I am on a very balanced road now.My only problem is anxiety but even thats getting so much better.
Sometimes you can not see it getting better but it does get better. Really truly it does get better.I am sending you all the loving light from one thats been there .
Hugs
Moonlight
-
Hi,
I have heard that taking omega-3 fatty acids, in particular flaxseed oil, supplements 3 times a day has a remarkable antidepressant effect.
I've been meaning to try it. I was told this by a woman at church whose doctor recommended it.
They're natural anti-inflammatories, who knows what processes might be involved other than serotonin?
Anyway, just a thought...
HealMe, I have taken antidepressants for long stretches, and not, for long stretches. For me the best combo has been an SAD light during the winter, strong tea every morning while I sit by the light, and lots of regular walking.
Can you make yourself go walk every day for a week and see what happens?
(((((((((((HealMe)))))))))))
Hops
-
I'd say use a/d s to manage the depression whilst continuing with the therapy.
However I've had various psych meds prescribed down the years and have learned from experience- get an experienced psychiatrist to prescribe for you. There really is a knack to getting the right drug to help you.
No a/d s don't surpress your feelings. Depression is an illness which sometimes only meds will break into.
If you take a/d s and find within 2 or 3 days your mood is significantly elevated and you're suddenly full of new energy and not wanting/needing therapy etc- you may be bipolar.
-
That is exactly right we talking about depression and bipolar.I am seeing a psychiatrist and after trying many different medications finally we got the right ones.(But I do get afraid which was demonstrated here on the board. The mix up feelings I showed on this board I am very sorry about that sam vaknin thing.I did not handle myself well and I am very sorry for that. This goes out to everyone I am truly sorry)The only time I need talk therapy is when a crisis comes along otherwise I see my doctor every 3 months.So at this time I am taking meds and before I was diagnosed I had talk therapy only and suffered greatly but I have bipolar maybe its different than depression.I know there are others with alot to say about depression.
Moonlight
-
Hi my hubby has done research on omega-3 s flax seed oil supplements there is one he sez is good for add the supplement is French tree bark "PYCNOGENOL"sold by swanson the American Indians were really into
tree bark you can google it.All of these gentle ways to take care of depression would be the way to go until you see that a more intensive method is needed
Moonlight
-
healthy eating, exercise, dietary supplements to answer deficits- it's all part of a whole.
But nothing but nothing can help you except an experienced psychiatrist if you develop psychosis which is the outcome of prolonged depression or mania.
Believe me- I've taken Omega 3 to the max until the tummy upsets curtailed the experiment...it at best made me feel slightly well for a couple of days.
Could it cure mood disorder? No, of course not.
Nothing save reprogramming my brain will do that- it's just now living out a training time to teach me to sit around with agitation, unresolved emotions, and not to go running around acting out to try and get resolution: that's living with bipolar ( or other variations of mental ilness )
Depression is a severe mental illness which requires a decent specialist to diagnose and medicate. It's been taken up by modern parlence to be diluted to 'a sad mood' or a 'bad day'. Not the same.
Counselling is something each person has to work out for themselves, piece by piece, to make peace with their past, to recover.
Sam Vaknin?
I have never forgotten my first forays into personality disorder where he not only thougbt it- he WAS it.
I feel sorry for him, he was neglected as we all were.
But- if we were responding here on Voicelessness to him and it turned out to be HIS forums- it would finish me off in terms of looking for support online.
Trust is a fragile thing at best- but online it's transient to the point it may not exist.
There are no cures for bipolar...it's like anythign else- learn to liev with it.
-
Write Thanks for the sane point of view on Mr.Vaknin I sure will not let it slip from my grasp .The moon does wax and wane
Moonlight
-
Depression is a severe mental illness which requires a decent specialist to diagnose and medicate. It's been taken up by modern parlence to be diluted to 'a sad mood' or a 'bad day'. Not the same.
I hear you, Write. I agree, severe depression likely needs something other than home-grown methods. But for just-moderate depression maybe they're worth a try and then "stage up" to Rx?
I'm reading a wonderful book on depression, btw: Lincoln's Melancholy: How Depression Challenged a President and Fueled His Greatness, by Joshua Wolf Shenk. It's a very different biography of Lincoln that focuses on his psychological life. The author had also suffered serious clinical depression. It's fascinating what Lincoln went through and how he and his community tried to treat it.
Hops
-
healme,
I suffered from severe situational depression and anxiety during the break-up of the marriage. When just therapy wasn't making it better, my T sent me to a psychiatrist for eval and med management. I agree with write that this is a must. I had tried some AD's prescribed by my OB/GYN and had a very bad reaction to two different ones. I had no problems with anything the psych prescribed. Just because meds were not successful in the past, does not mean they don't work for you. There are many varieties on the market that target different parts of the brain, so sometimes it takes time to figure out the med and dosage. Because I wasn't able to eat at the time the psych saw me initially, she also put me on an anti-psychotic for a short time to get my appetite started. It truly was an overnight success. The AD's take longer to get into your system and you need to be patient with results. I certainly recommend combining them with therapy.
I have been off all meds for 2 years and am doing fine now, but they really were a Godsend at the time. I don't think they masked anything, just cleared my mind and allowed me to function in a more focused manner--very important when you're in the throws of divorce.
Brigid
-
I was just talking to a friend last week about mental illness:
there is SUCH huge denial about it.
My friend is clearly falling apart- she is now having dreams and daydreams and premonitions where she predicts the future. She looks terrible, is clearly self-medicating with alcohol, is receiving 'therapy' from a 'friend'....dating a guy who has another wife and child despite the fact it is tearing her apart...
Yet-
I am pretty confident that I am the only person who will quietly say to her: I think this is an illness. Your body and mind can only take so much strain and stress. Please go talk to a psychiatrist and take care of your mental health.
How do I know this?
Because when I got my most sick I remember in particular my son calling his father and saying 'mummy's dying, I'm frightened' and though he drove through the night to get to me, called 2 of my dearest friends- who incidentally are a doctor and a former mental health nursing sister-to come to me because they were geographically closer....
They were great, gave me huge love and unconditional support. But I did not get any help that weekend or any weekend soon.
Despite my OBVIOUS psychosis it was rationalised away and not one of these people suggested I went to hospital or saw a mental health doctor.
In fact it was me who took myself there some weeks down the line as a coincidence from being somewhat delusional.
Everything has its place, but if you're mentally unwell- seek advice from an expert.
2 experts- yourself and an experienced psych physician. When those two factors come together you're on the road to recovery.
-
Write, this is a very sobering story:
a doctor and a former mental health nursing sister-to come to me because they were geographically closer........ I did not get any help.......Despite my OBVIOUS psychosis it was rationalised away and not one of these people suggested I went to hospital or saw a mental health doctor..................In fact it was me who took myself there
Thank you for sharing this.
A doctor friend and mental health nurse friend wouldn't even recommend it. It's almost as though out of "friendship" people try to help you with denial, or don't want to face their own denial? Or maybe at some level they themselves still bought into the stigma so they were reluctant to help a friend face the severity of her illness, where it was easier to see strangers as having a mental illness? Well, that's water over the dam but a very sobering story.
I'm so glad you had the innate (even if accidental) wisdom to get the help you needed.
I hope your currently falling-apart friend will hear you. I feel confident you can get through to her.
Blessings on your head for helping her,
Hops
-
Thank you for all the responses and suggestions.
I have been taking St. John's Wart and a good multi-vitamin for the past six weeks or more. It has helped some but there are still days that I just don't move. And the anxiety is great. This past weekend has been the worst yet.
I think I do want to deny that I have a depression problem. I have tried Paxil (which was a horrible experience) a long time ago and Effexor, recently. With Effexor, I just seemed to "flatline". I let the kids get away with murder, I say okay to anything and everything, don't cry and am real mellow. When I came off Effexor (7 mths ago), it was like someone had turned the light on with my feelings. I could not stop crying, I was angry for weeks (was it "anger" I had stored up?) and my mood swings were all over the board. I did not like the out of control feeling. Yes, I did taper off of it with Dr's orders. It took about 5 weeks before I felt halfway normal again.
While I am in the worst depression yet....I do feel that my T is guiding me in the right direction. I don't want to stop feeling.
The Dr who has prescribed them in the past is my ob/gyn. I hear some of you saying that I need a Psychologist. But aren't they just going to keep trying me on different things until "one" is good like my OB/GYN? Can you explain to me the difference?
-
Healme -
I haven't read any of the other posts yet, but I HATE meds!!!!!!!!!!! I think they are prescribed at the drop of a hat and then people need more meds to counteract the side-effects of the first med and on and on.
We are more medicated than any country in the world...we are also lazier, greedier, and more selfish. If at all possible, I like to learn how to DEAL with the feelings rather than medicate.
Sorry for the caps, I just feel VERY strongly about all the drugs!!!! I suppose I would consider meds if I had a diagnosed condition AND couldn't handle what was coming up in T.
Movinon
-
It's a real problem highly-functioning people are not taken seriously as contenders for mental illness.
Everyone expects people with mental illness to be incoherent, lacking insight or wisdom, incapable.
When you say to a doctor 'I'm hearing voices and I know it's not right' so many don't know how to respond: they have been taught that psychosis goes 'in this box'- with no self-awareness...
I RARELY tell anyone these days I have a severe mental illness. In fact my companion physical illness- endometriosis- is what I use mostly as an explanation.
The Dr who has prescribed them in the past is my ob/gyn. I hear some of you saying that I need a Psychologist. But aren't they just going to keep trying me on different things until "one" is good like my OB/GYN? Can you explain to me the difference?
what you need is a good psychiatrist Healme.
Someone with experience of taking note of history and symptoms who will listen to your concerns and help you work out the best treatment for you.
Are you in the US? In a large city?
You may have to travel to find the right psychiatrist. But once you find a good psychiatrist- someone you can trust who gets to know you and is interested in helping you the individual- I have not looked back since.
A lot of my illness is gynaecological, but I do not believe my gynaecologist has the expertise to discuss or prescribe for mental illness. And in fact- it's why I trust her as a gynaecologist the fact she doesn't try to, but always refers me on for anything outside her own field.
I will probably go back to her later this year for an endometrial ablation though: I am currently having too much minor illness, diarrhea/ back pain/ heavy periods/ anaemia. The same hormones which affect the bipolar seem to trigger the endometriosis.
***
Generic general practice was too too common in England, and in my opinion the scourge of modern medicine and the downfall of the UUK NHS.
By the time so many people reach the expert they need their illness is already life-threatening or impacting severely on quality of life.
The US model of specialisation has undoubtedly increased medical expertise and competence and enhanced service-delivery.
-
I amy differ from others, but I think the meds allow you to gain clear insight into your life and then begin to work through your problems. Being on depression medication is, I believe, a medical necessity for some (it is for me). I was to the point that I didn't even enjoy playing with my children. I have been on anti-depressants now for three years, still have some ups and downs, but work an AA program and have great realtionships, peace and even happiness. But I have only been able to work on these things once I got help for the deep depression. When I was in that slump, I couldn't see any way out.
Please take care of yourself and let us know how you are and what you decide to do.
Love, Beth
-
I am going to place a call to my T today to see about a pshychologist prescribing meds. I don't want to change from my T even though she can't prescribe meds.
I live in the US and in a rather small town, however, a larger city is within driving distance. I am confident that she will be able to connect me with someone.
I have lost quality of life. I have not lifted a finger in my house in over a week, I have tuned the kids out and my husband has taken over my duties....I just want to go to bed and not get back up. It is obvious that I need help.
I will let you know how it goes.........
-
HealMe,
Sweetie, you're going to be okay. And Write is right, you need a psychiatrist (M.D.) to prescribe you some Rx...or at least to give you a thorough evaluation. A psyschologist (Ph.D.) or social worker (M.S.W.) is not licensed to prescribe medication, though they can do therapy. I am in the same situtation, which is that I see a psychologist for therapy but need an M.D. for Rx.
Make the call, please! And let us know when you are going.
What a rough time. Please have faith this can and will get better.
(((((((((HealMe))))))))
Hops
-
healme,
I will reiterate what write and I both said before--you want a psychiatrist to prescribe your meds. Psychologists do not have the same level of training or medicinal background. There would be no reason to quit your current T if he/she is good for you. The psych will only monitor the meds. An ob/gyn is not trained to know these meds and takes their info from a book, not years of personal experience. You would not use your ob if you were having problems with your gall bladder--same thing with your brain chemistry.
movinon
Yes we probably do overmedicate in this country, but serious depression is not something that you just feel your way through. AD's do not remove the feelings, but help to stop that swirling the drain feeling where you cannot move forward and function. I have a son who is ADHD who many thought I should not medicate. I'm so glad I did as it saved his life (and mine, for that matter). He has done so well as a result and is currently a pre-med student with a very full life (and yes, he still is on his meds and knows he will probably need them for the rest of his life).
Unless you have a chronic mental health problem, I do not think being on meds indefinitely is a good thing, but when in that dark hole with no hope of climbing out, your home and children are being neglected and you don't feel life is worth living--at least worth a try.
Good luck healme in finding a good psychiatrist.
Brigid
-
PS, HealMe--
If you see a psychiatrist for meds, you'd probably go maybe once a month after your first appointment, then once every 3 months, and then twice a year, or something similar. (Intervals vary, up to the psychiatrist, but you get the idea...)
It doesn't replace or compete with your regular therapy appointments.
That help?
Hops
-
Thank you for helping me to take this step. Before I have always counted on my ob/gyn...which were got good results. So, I have called a couple of the psychiatrists that my T recommended. Based on what you have said, I feel better dealing with a psychiatrist.
Brigid, you are right...I want nothing less than to be happy, at peace and enjoying my life. But I can't....I can't make myself..will myself....or hope myself out of this..........I have earnestly tried for 15 yrs. I think it is time to admit that I have a mental problem (depression). If I could change it on my own.....I would have done it a long time ago.
Hops...thanks for clearing up the psychiatrist appointment issue.....how did you know that I was dreading see another Dr.? It makes me feel better that it is not another weekly or potential mthly appointment.
I will be in touch....
-
I believe 100% that when you are in the depths of depression, the right medication is a necessity. I KNOW what awful depression and constant anxiety are and I NEVER want to go back there. I am so happy to have my life back and my life is GOOD.
My only bit of advice is to make sure that you get the right medication, healme. If you are not feeling a change within two - three weeks or feel in any way worse, contact your doctor immediately. It may take just a bit of time to get yourself set. Don't give up hope before everything clears up!!!! In a short while you will look back and be so glad you got started on getting well.
I did not got rhough a psychologist or psychiatrist, but through my GP and now OBGYN. I don't remember if you have any psychiatric problems, but if not, this might be all you need to give you a push in the right direction. Is there depression in your family? More often than not, depression is hereditary and nothing at all to be embarrassed about.
Take care and good luck and please keep posting!!
Love, Beth
-
I have an appointment in 2 weeks with a psychiatrist. Meanwhile, I contacted my ob/gyn who put me on 37.5 mg of Effexor XR to get me to the appointment. Although he said I would not really feel a difference with only 37.5 mg....I do feel some difference. Really more of a numbing feeling. Welcomed nevertheless.
I think in the past few days I have come to make peace with having depression. And yes, it does run in my family. Somehow...the superwoman that I am...thought I could be the exception. Wrong....but I am going to learn to deal with it.
Thank you for all for your guidance.....
-
Hi Healme I am so happy for you .You are on the right road .Hey whats the difference between having high blood pressure and depression .They are just illnesses that run in families that need to be treated .Thats all. I bet you and your husband are feeling a good deal better just being proactive.
All the best to you Healme
Moonlight
-
I have experienced both and am currently doing ADs with therapy AGAIN for the 3rd time since being in therapy nearly my entire adult life! UGH!
This time I noticed that a dose which was too high caused me to bury my feelings. My current dose seems to be the correct one because the feelings are now coming to the surface.
For me I am taking the ADs at this time for complicated or compounded grief -- grieving many things at once. Mainly I am grieving the loss of my companion dog, Behr. The one year anniversary of his death is coming up next month and that is bringing up all kinds emotions for me. I never though I would feel this way about losing a pet - but I do.
All I know is I couldn't go through this intense time of complicated grief without ADs.
I am taking Zoloft, 100 mg. I tried taking 125 mg and that was a disaster. I had some severe reactions to it like heart pounding in my ears, palpitations, a rash, a strange sensation in my head which I can't really describe -- kind of like my eyes couldn't keep up with my head, and extreme dizziness. All of this is gone on the 100 mg dose. Also I couldn't keep in touch with my emotions. I was like frozen, not any longer.
-
I am going to place a call to my T today to see about a pshychologist prescribing meds. I don't want to change from my T even though she can't prescribe meds.
I live in the US and in a rather small town, however, a larger city is within driving distance. I am confident that she will be able to connect me with someone.
I have lost quality of life. I have not lifted a finger in my house in over a week, I have tuned the kids out and my husband has taken over my duties....I just want to go to bed and not get back up. It is obvious that I need help.
I will let you know how it goes.........
Hello Healme,
I can so much relate to what you have said here. I've been there and was there for over 10 years!
I am there again and taking ADs! I just need to be where I am. Sometimes I lay in bed all day and do nothing. Sometimes I let the dishes go and/or the house work. Everyday is different. I have accepted this journey of grief wherever it takes me.
BTW my physician prescribed my meds. I have seen the same T for 14 years and he didn't notice I was needing ADs. He figured it out afterwards that I was suffering from complicated grief.
Glad to hear you are taking the next step and taking care of you.
-
Hi HealMe- great to hear you have an appt. to see a psychiatrist. I agree with others who have recommended this in terms of meds. Some family docs are very knowledgable about anti depressants but it's been my experience that the majority just haul out the med bible- so to speak- and look it up. Most are not astute in terms of prescribing accurate and effective doses or knowing about tailoring and fine tuning, or augmenting meds. I'm biloplar and probably have over the decades taken just about every anti depressant known to man- in N. America anyway!. Europe has some interesting new meds that aren't available or being used here. I can totally relate to you being so incapacitated you're not able to care for yuourslef- let alone your family- and not being able to do any housework. I get so deperssed I can't shower for many weeks- lovely, i know!- or even take my garbage out- let alone lift a finger to do anything else! right now my apartment looks as bad as any really ill client has- I work as a nurse in mental health in the community. I'm having a friend come in next week to do a monster clean. She's th eone person I'll actually open my door to and let in as I'm pretty humiliated and embarassed by current state of squalor! As for meds- again- sometimes what has been effective for long time in thepast, suddenly stops working- and it's back to the guinea pit drawing board! Huga Moirs
-
Just FYI, dosage-wise, my doc started me on the lowest to see how it affected me (20mg of Paxil) and then when I was okay, he asked if I wanted to go up a notch. Since I was feeling better, I decided that that would be enough. I still have challenging days... but the way a normal, feeling person does. That was hard for me... figuring out what was a normal feeling and what was depression once I started the meds. It takes a bit for your mind to settle and for you to recognize how you feel about things. My 12 step group, of course, has been a huge help in continuing to learn about myself. I recently switched to Celexa, as my doctor said it doesn't cause weight gain the way Paxil can. The transition has been fine. I have felt no real difference.
At any rate, that's just my experience... not a recommendation of any sort!
Love, Beth
-
bean,
What a wonderful analogy... depression goggles. It's so true. I also felt like there was no person inside me. I felt like I was just doing what I needed to do to survive and had nothign at all beyond that. The grayness is exactly what it is.
It's funny, I have been well for so long I have lost touch with those bleak feelings!
Love, Beth