Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: BJ on May 13, 2006, 07:37:16 AM
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I have often wondered how many of us here are trained in this field, and in what modality, and of those, how many professionally practice?
It seems to me that the majority of us here are very intelligent and insightful. Has professional training influenced our responses, or has our "position in life" offered us our training?
Coming out "would-work". BJ
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Hi BJ,
I think sometimes people become savvy as a result of having spent years in therapy themselves. With that, and a bunch of reading, you can learn a whole lot of essential principles and become more sensitive to patterns inside people's stories.
I have done years of therapy (various therapists, and I didn't take note of their specific approaches except to note whether I trusted them) an assertiveness training workshop.
All that was a good background to a big source of experience for me. After being in a local women's support group for years that was led by an insightful and big-hearted amateur, I started 6 different groups for women in 3 churches. I would just attend the first 3 or 4 sessions with each group to teach them the structure and priniciples: confidentiality, time-sharing, empathic listening techniques...
Then I would leave, and the groups would be intentionally leaderless, having chosen to adopt the principles and structure themselves. (Some day when I have the energy I'll type them here...)
That's been a real source of understanding and I'm still close friends with several women from the first group I started many years ago. (I was also just a member, myself, once we got it rolling.)
Interesting question and thanks for asking it!
Hops
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Hops,
I enjoyed your response and love the women's group you started... and your approach to it. It's inspiring! I'm happy my question brought me to know you a liitle different/more than I did before. Thanks BJ
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I haven't had any specific training as a therapist or counselor. I have taken a lot of classes in child development and special education. I was a teacher for 30 years in high school and adult career education. In the career education experience I always had a group of students assigned to me--I was their advisor. Most of these students were women. Many of them had never had a job. Many had not completed high school. Most of them had a strong belief that they couldn't do anything. Building their self confidence and self esteem was as important as the subject matter. This was the most rewarding job I ever had.
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I started out as an unqualified social worker after a few years volunteering in various projects, I was supposed to go get qualified after a year's full-time experience, but by the time I got my university placement two years later I was already burned out; I moved to Probation Service, but decided to stay at an unqualified assistant level, expecting the same thing to happen; it was more directional and obvious what our role was so I was able to do it for 6 years until I had my son and stayed home.
I've done several courses in counselling and communication techniques, a certificate in criminal justice and social policy and more recently began to study gerontology- related issues.
The work I do now is as a freelance musician and writer, I prefer to work for myself, but it is often therapeutic to the people involved and I spent a year developing a music programme for alzheimers patients in 2004 which I am currently writing up with a doctor friend.
Bean- loads of psychologists do work for/with companies.
In terms of professional qualification and therapy- I believe a therapist needs to be a psychologist or psychiatrist who has had several years certification and experience before they are qualified to help.
Counselling with a directional intent eg to reduce offending is not the same as approaching psychotherapy with a client.
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thanks, BJ, for the invitation to tell it.
And Bean, your kindness floors me. I couldn't reply right away because I felt such a pang reading your suggestion of my working (if I were qualified) in a corporate setting to hear people and bring them togethr...I did miss my calling I think. Several people have suggested it (or ministry), but I don't have the chutzpah for more school at my age. I wish I'd become a therapist, minister, or negotiator/mediator of some sort. Didn't plan it all the way I should've.
Jona, your work moves me tremendously. That's another thing that sounds tremendously fulfilling to me. As would teaching ESL. I bet you're SO good at it.
Write, btw, the support groups I intiated were church-based, not claiming or pretening to be therapy...they were support groups of equals. I chose the most broad-based name I could, "Changing Circles"...to welcome anyone. (Who's NOT going through some kind of change?) Worked very well, with different kinds/ages/types of women. The structural things were just to help it work. We met for 2 hours every week, taking equal turns with time. Some of them were in two other states where I lived for a while. Anyway, one of the principles/agreements was that we were NOT a therapy group and if anyone had such issues that were beyond othe group's capacity to cope with or help effectively, we all agreed at the beginning that we would advise such a member to seek professional help.
Hops
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one of the principles/agreements was that we were NOT a therapy group and if anyone had such issues that were beyond othe group's capacity to cope with or help effectively, we all agreed at the beginning that we would advise such a member to seek professional help.
which I'm sure made it an excellent support group!
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thanks, Write. :oops:
Night, sleep well...
Hops
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Hi BJ, my "position in life" gave me odd training. I’ve been a depressed, confused lunatic all my life, to varying degrees of odd behaviour and thinking. I’ve only just stopped striving to survive against all the imagined threats in life.
I kept out of the mental health system and continue to do so (I'm pleased about that). I have no credentials and would not imagine I had any knowledge other than about myself, and that is severely limited!
We are the veil that veils us from ourselves.
That drives me nuts with frustration!
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So revealing. Glad to know that about you all.
I have been to a number of therapists for about 10 years and minored in psychology. I have done TONS of personal development work and seminars/retreats and with 12-step. Similar to hops, I am a facilitator-in-training for women's empowerment work and LOVE< LOVE< LOVE seeing the shifts from when women walk in on the Friday until they leave on the Sunday, then a year, 2 years down the road.
I have been a member of quite a few theraputic groups where we use tools to facilitate and guide each other and lead groups of women for a time period before they start to learn to govern themselves (just handing over some tools). I'm a specail education teacher presently, but waiting to start my own theraputic business (when the divorce is final). Funny, most of my friends are therapists/ coaches. They are trying like the dickens to get me to go into it, but I've got my eye somewhere else.
Sorry, I think this sounds like I'm auditioning for something.
Movinon
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Hi, Movin,
Would you mind posting that link to your organization again? I meant to keep it but forgot.
(We get so many great links here, like Write's site too...I need to remember to just plop them in a folder. Such resources we can share.)
Thanks,
Hops
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Thanks Jona for your interesting story.
Building their self confidence and self esteem was as important as the subject matter. This was the most rewarding job I ever had.
Might you someday return to your passion?
StormChild, I'm intrigued by your background. Writing, editing, science...I love it all. I'm glad to know this about you.
BJ - are you also a "real life" therapist/life coach/mentor? just wondering.
Bean, I try to live a "real life", but that's all!
I'm sorry your work is so stressful. It seems the professional life there does need some intervention. The company and your co-workers are suffering a great loss. Maybe someone could suggest a few ways to calm and slow things down. Maybe start a "positive" suggestion box. Maybe someone could approach a local gym for a corporate discount. Maybe the company would allow a day to dress comfortably? I don't know, but it seems like everyone needs to relax and come together. How successful can we be when we are stressed beyond ourselves everyday?
I sort of wish there was a company psychologist we could consult with. I think it'd really help smooth some of the dysfunctional stuff happening daily.
Maybe you could start a group or get a key speaker to come to your office?... Someone who talks in engineer lingo. I suppose your company would approve these costs if they could see the financial benefits in the long-term savings of the renewed efficiency of their personell. I'm sure you have it in you to plant a seed in the right direction. "Someone" can make a move to start things going. If you have a wish...try to work towards it.
Write, burn-out..I understand. What a good experience towards knowing what you want and where you want to be. Did that lead you toward your interest in your wonderful music program?
In terms of professional qualification and therapy- I believe a therapist needs to be a psychologist or psychiatrist who has had several years certification and experience before they are qualified to help.
I couldn't agree more. I think it's the years of life experience (personal and professional), added to the knowledge, that makes this work helpful and useful.
Counselling with a directional intent eg to reduce offending is not the same as approaching psychotherapy with a client.
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say here? Please explain?
Portia, don't sell yourself short. You've always struck me as a thinker and well-thought-out. Celebrate your uniqueness.
Movinon,
Funny, most of my friends are therapists/ coaches. They are trying like the dickens to get me to go into it, but I've got my eye somewhere else.
What are their reasons for trying to persuade you, and where are your eyes headed?
I'm so glad you have posted in response to my curiosity. I feel like I know you all a little better, I feel closer to you, and I will have a better perspective as I read future posts. Thanks, BJ
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Counselling with a directional intent eg to reduce offending is not the same as approaching psychotherapy with a client.
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say here? Please explain?
well for example if I am working with a young burglar, all I need to do basically is work out a set of steps to identify his pattern of offending behaviour, break it down and confront him with it eg his bad attitude, the feelings of his victims, or a common theme like 'I don't steal from my own' ( if you draw concentric circles out from the person's home then plot a few places they offended it becomes clear most of the offences were indeed within their own community )
It's very directional and the same method can be used over and over because my role is clear- get this person to accept some aspect of their behaviour needs to change. My position is- I believe this aspect of your behaviour is wrong and in order to comlete a probation order & stay out of custody you need to stop your offending behaviour.
When a person goes to psycotherapy they are going to talk about their life and the therapist use various techniques to identify possible belief stumbling blocks & help them make changes.
The counselling is non-directional and impartial, the therapists religious or political or moral views don't come into it, they should have no agenda, they are not a teacher or guidance, but using their knowledge and experience of psychological models and professional guidelines to let you come to your own resolution.
It is in contrast with visiting the probation officer, school counsellor, priest, anti-abortion organisation etc who have already decided in advance what your behaviour needs to be and will steer you towards what they believe.
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I'd like to know what the definition of "real" means in this.
I've been trained in crisis counseling, pregnancy choice counseling, evangelism, prophecy, and done extensive research and written papers on various personality disorders. I'm not sure if that counts or not. I've also preached in various places and online since 1997, regarding spiritual abuse and deliverance and currently am training regarding Inner Healing.
RM
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Hi Really,
I wouldn't expect anyone on the board to confirm or define what makes you legitimate.
(You don't need others' approval to do what you care about....) And different people have different definitions of what's official, therapeutic, safe, wise, etc. There are hundreds of opinions out there.
I think intention is a great deal of it when people advise other people, and I know your intention is to help people, consistent with your beliefs and purpose. Now that I know much more of your own story, that's much clearer to me. (Hell of a childhood you had, and trying to help others is such a powerful response to that suffering.)
Happy Mother's Day evening to you...hope you had a good one.
Did you hear from your daughter? Mine called these evening, but things are a little strained. I know we'll be okay in the long haul, though.
Hops
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I do think there is something of a value judgment in the word "real". It didn't offend me. I took it to mean people who had formal training in the field or who were employed in the field. But I can see where there would be some question about what is meant by "real". Especially now that I have read the variety of training and experience that people on the board have. So many jobs and experiences I never would have thought of. And most of them I do not have the temperament to participate in!!
I hope to be able to help people, or have an impact, through becoming a better friend and through writing in some form. I'm not too interested in becoming something official. When I first attended college at age 18, I did major in Human Services thinking I wanted to be a social worker. Even in my first semester, I doubted that I had the temperament for it. A couple of my teachers thought I was being too hard on myself, and perhaps they were right. But that tendency to be hard on myself has lingered in me, so I believe I was right that I eventually would have suffered burn-out. I dropped out in my third semester as it was too hard to have a son, go to school and work. So, that nipped my social work career in the bud.
I'm very impressed with the kind of work so many of you do in this area. It takes a special kind of enthusiasm and generosity. I admire that.
Pennyplant
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'real'
I read it to mean real-life, as in done it for a job. I didn't see any value judgement in it.
Social work is really difficult Pennyplant- it's not enough resources to effect any real change in too many cases. It made me physically ill, I started with endometriosis, had sciatica and loads of viruses.
A friend who was a social worker ( and has now herself burned out and quit ) gave me some tough love and said 'how can you help other people until you're ok yourself'. I resigned and went for counselling but it was a newly qulified psychiatric nurse who I talked to. She unravelled a tremendous amount of my life then didn't know where to go with it; she was supposed to allocate a number of sessions to each client and wrap things up within this time frame, it was unrealistic and I felt brushed off. I remember her telling me all kinds of things which seem plain stupid now, like 'every marriage has its ups and downs' and I did leave thinking it must be my fault my marriage has failed, and I went back and gave it another go only for the same pattern to emerge. But if I hadn't I wouldn't have got my son!
It wasn't until I did two years with a trained experienced psychologist I really benefitted from any intervention.
I think intention is a great deal of it when people advise other people
this isn't addressed to anyone re their own work, but I disagree, plenty of people think their intentions are good when they beat or bully their children for example; the nurse who first counselled me I'm sure was doing her best, but her beliefs minimising domestic abuse led her to 'advise'. Some women return to their abusers and are severely beaten or even killed after being advised even by police that they are safe: such advice, though well-meant, could be tragic. People's intentions can be very noble and they still do damage.
I think it's important therapeutic work takes place within a framework of training and professional practice guidelines, to protect both client and worker.
There will still be bad practice, abuse of power or mistakes, but it's much clearer if there's an overall objective framework to what's going on.
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'real'
I read it to mean real-life, as in done it for a job. I didn't see any value judgement in it.
Write, you got it right! That's all.
BJ
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Hi Bean thanks for the hug! I like a hug anytime.
I don't think you're a lunatic and your behavior here isn't odd to me.
Thanks Bean. It may not be now, but I think it was sometimes odd after I joined in Dec 03. Being here has helped me see myself more clearly, my interactions with others and helped me see my past more realistically. I think I’m getting to where I want to be and still learning of course.
I think you'd be a very good life coach for just about anybody who got a chance to know you. Thanks for your confidence in me. I don’t know what I’ll do next. I’m afraid of failure which makes decision-making difficult.
BJ
Portia, don't sell yourself short. You've always struck me as a thinker and well-thought-out. Celebrate your uniqueness.
Thank you BJ. Maybe I am selling myself short. My education reports at age 17/18 said I was not convinced of my own potential and I think that has persisted. It’s tricky thinking of a new career at 44 and being aware of where I’ve come from, as it were. I think I know enough about social work and probation work now to know that I don’t want to do that (thanks Write). Maybe I’ll look into academic work.
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write
this isn't addressed to anyone re their own work, but I disagree, plenty of people think their intentions are good when they beat or bully their children for example; the nurse who first counselled me I'm sure was doing her best, but her beliefs minimising domestic abuse led her to 'advise'. Some women return to their abusers and are severely beaten or even killed after being advised even by police that they are safe: such advice, though well-meant, could be tragic. People's intentions can be very noble and they still do damage.
I sooooooooooooooo see your point here and agree with it. I feel so angry, upset and helpless, watching people stay with abusers, parents abusing children, thinking it's "for their own good." I heard a pastor preach how his dear mother whipped him with a hickory branch and how much gooooooooood it did him" yesterday at a church....I was FURIOUS!
Good comments write, however, i'm going to keep doing what I do, prof training or not. I am called of God. His sanction is all I need.
RM
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BJ
My friends reasoning for trying to persuade me is that they see how much of it I do through 12-step, the women's groups, and other "informal" settings. They just say that I would be great at it and think I should be getting paid for all of my experience.
My eyes are somewhere else...I'm wanting to open up my own business, but I'm waiting until the divorce is final.
Movinon
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Hey Mis Portiaita,
I think you would do wonderfully in somethng academic, and enjoy it too. You have such a clear, persistent, quizzical mind and you use language brilliantly.
As to your mental status...you are a lunatic if I'm a jackalope... ummm.... :P :P
(((smart TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE IN EVERY WAY Portia))))))
Hops