Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Anansi on May 21, 2006, 10:45:55 PM
-
Dear All,
Hi - May I join you? I'm so alone, scared and sad and I've never had any bonding with anyone. Mother was German war orphan - paranoid N. Father was fatherless and schizoid N. Only child, "father" put death wish on me (more later) and mother molested my entire soul away (later). Now at 41, I've JUST begun to realize that I'm an N as well. [Dear God, please help]
I don't know why but everything I say that comes out of my mouth is in the tone of discounting, judging, etc.. so now I work graveyard shift as a cleaner to avoid people because I don't want everyone to keep hating me. Bio-energetically, I'm frozen all around (very stiff neck, etc). Oral personality (compulsive eating, arrested development at about one, I think (can't remember 99% of childhood)). I need and will be very grateful for connection here even if only one person can befriend me. I do lack social skills and I'm also asking for feedback on where I miss the feeling connection.
Aside from me wondering if I'll ever be able to have a friend or not that's not based on me being an object for a bully type, I am so frustrated with this language. It seems I can search and search for the right words that attempt to be what I'm wanting to say but no matter what words come out, it's almost always from my head. I tried Chinese medicine and it has only made things worse (later).
Not being a good reader (mother would never let me read, she got wildly jealous if I ever tired to do any homework), I will try my best to keep up with what others are saying. I did read one thread about how being stripped away of existence may lead to being able to offer unconditional love and compassion (I teared on this idea) to others.
Does anybody have any feedback? Thank you for reading.
Voiceless,
Anansi (from the African tales about a foolish and wise spider)
"We do to ourselves have has been done to us" - Strephon Kaplan-Williams from the book Transforming Childhood
-
Hi Anansi,
Those of us who grew up in N households do go through (for the most part I believe others will tell you as well) an N period and also have difficulty achieving the normal emotional levels that other people know as we never learned them.
You may have N traits (I still have the same negative tape running through my head that you talk about - although I am working very hard to erase it), but I don't believe that you have NPD as you are looking for help. I also have issues with eating and am in recovery for alcoholism. We try to find our escape, but there comes a time when you have to face what you fear.
I think first you will need to start working on building up emotions (or rather understanding them). A children's book of emotions might help to begin. See which ones you identify with and understand. I would also start back talking to the negative voice in your head. I do that still... even when I don't want to. I will see a person and think, "God, what a moron. She's reading a trash novel and probably has no education." or some such ridiculous theng. I don't plan to think it, but it is what I heard all through my childhood ( and even now). So I stop and think, "What do I really feel about this person?" "OK, she is attractive and looks friendly. She is probably reading a silly book to relax a bit." I know this is a strange example, but I think you know what I mean.
I also think you should start trying to communicate with others... slowly. Try a kind dialogue... jsut one a day. See, the thing is, I have realized that if you don't reach out to others, you can't know love or caring. A sure way to make a person feel good (and good towards you) is simply to ask about his/her life... and listen to the answer. Most people just want to be hears.
Please take care and please keep posting.
Beth
-
Welcome Anansi,
So sorry to hear of your sad experiences.Maybe finding a good therapist could help.It helped me in so many
ways.Our childhoods do not have to shape our futures.Yet, I know allowing the sadness you are feeling now
is healing.I have read some of the American Southwest Grandmother Spider Spirit stories.
To me understanding a book like "Transforming childhood"by Strephon Kaplan-Williams shows a very bright mind.
I do hope you are feeling Blessings and Love
Moonlight
-
Thank you Beth,
I felt tears swelling to come up after reading your reply to me. Thank you. I will try a kind dialog. Thank you, I will try. And from your saying this, I feel less pressure to perform.
I felt a sweet moment inside when you shared your novel in the bus example. I am imagining your question "what do I really feel about this person?" and I feel better already. Thank also for saying the words "normal emotional levels" (something for me to move towards).
I really want to show my support for you about anywhere on your recovery by it coming out of me that I stand by you.
Moonlight52, thank you for saying welcome and for connecting over Anansi. I'm glad you also liked the stories :) My intention is promote kind dialogs with you and everyone I may meet here.
Later,
Anansi,
"Grief is healed when it is witnessed by a caring other" - ?
-
Welcome, Anansi,
With those parents, you've done an amazing job to be as functional as you are. Good for you.
I agree, a therapist can help you take this growth and make it more.
I hope you will.
You deserve a calm heart and peaceful mind as much as any other human being walking on this planet.
Make sure you have kind dialogue with yourself, too.
Best wishes,
Hopalong
-
Hello, and welcome, Anansi,
I think you did a great job here describing where you are and progress you're working on/towards. Hope you feel good about that?
I echo Hops' good suggestion about therapy, a skilled therapist being worth their weight in gold. Would exploring or joining some kind of support group be a possibility? Am thinking how helpful it is to have someone besides a therapist to connect with around healing issues.
imho, coming here was a huge step around self-love. Best to you, Anansi.
:D
LoH
-
Lightofheart and Hopalong,
Thank you. About therapy, I live in Canada, so my choices are somewhat limited. I'm still looking.
If someone is NPD and they are aware of it, aren't they still NPD?
Anansi
-
Could be, Anansi.
I think there are Ns who know they are Ns.
Most don't stick with the question, I'd guess...
Hops
-
Hi again, Anansi,
Someone here (wish I could give credit, but can't remember who?) wrote that a therapist told them they had never once treated someone with NPD in their practice, only people who were trying to cope with Ns or in the aftermath of relationships with them.
A competent therapist would hopefully be able to differentiate between some N behavior and NPD.
best,
LoH
-
I'm angry with the English language as well. And it's my first and only language. LoL.
But I must say that you have expressed yourself well. And I agree with the others I kinda doubt you have NPD. They think they're 'God-like' and perfect. You don't seem to be that way. You may have an avoidant or paranoid personality. But I could certainly see why. I have gone through 'loner' phases of my own. And it seems to be just more of protective function than a disorder. I don't know though. But since you see that you have that 'judging' tone.... you can do something about it. Is it really who you are to be that way? Because it sounds to me like that it's not how you are inside.. but maybe you have only learned to mimic this way of interacting with others from the N's in your life. It would be very helpful for you to make more connections with people in your life. You need a positive role-model to mimic. This is something I learned to do when I was 17 years old. I had a bipolar stepdad and acted much like him. And then I learned that I was wrong. I was being paranoid and way too dramatic. People didn't understand me. And when they can't understand you they avoid you. I started paying attention to how my friends behaved and learned that is how I should behave. And now 12 years later it is very natural for me. After all they say.. you are what your friends are. So you should only pick friends that you would like to be like.
Whether you are NPD or not... well I don't really know. Only you know how you really feel inside. NPDs seems to be heartless to me. Do you lack affection for others? Do you feel empathy? That is the true test.
-
Anansi,
Thank you for sharing a small part of your story. You have studied much of this -- formally or for personal enlightenment and awareness?
You have courageously shared about your pain and shortcomings. But, you seem quite self aware in that you have found ways to maneuver through many of these issues so at the very least you are an effective problem solver. I am wondering since you have so boldly taken an inventory of your character defects if you might also take a thorough look at all of your positive attributes, too.
Sometimes, I tend to skip over the things that are working my life. I get fixated on the challenges and hurdles. I realize that this is part of the process, but I have gotten stuck here before. Sometimes we find that we are actually not as stuck as we thought we were once we can identify other areas we are coping very well. It is merely a matter of transferring an already acquired skiill over to a new problem.
I am glad you are here. I am looking forward to learning the (more later) and (later) parts of your story.
ANewSheriff
-
Hi MarissaML,
Wow, thank you! I feel your love, wisdom and sense of humour. You're awesome (celebratory tone). I hope you're right (that I don't have the "D." I have been looking for a role model/mentor for as long as I can remember, now I feel the urgency for me to be a role model for the younger men around [sigh]. Do I have affection for others? I know I can identify with people whose wounds seem to resemble mine in some way, but do I have love for them? I'm embarrassed to say, I really don't know since I have never been loved by anyone "you know you have found love cause if it comes your way, you'll be weeping" - ? I've started to get the odd tear here and there during the past 2 years, perhaps building me up to the weeping? (in God's hands) I'm so grateful and also embarrassed to say that I've received the most support from the replies I've received on this board. And I witness your recent 12 year journey MarissaML. Thank you for sharing it with me, it has helped and given me hope, encouragement and has fuelled the idea that I can choose my friends rather than just being passive. I look forward to the day when I can blow away the Grocho Marx joke about not wanting to belong to a club that would have me as a member.
Hi ANewSheriff,
Can we cut a deal together? I'll tell you more about me and my life if you can tell me what needs they will meet for you? I know it may seem obvious but it'll help me to hear it directly from you.
I'm glad they didn't have Ritalin when I was in "school." I just heard today on the radio that kids become hyper in compensatory response to parents who are depressed. Ritalin is a stimulant and it has the effect to make the kid tilt over to disassociative spaceland. The announcer said he wish he could break the knuckles of anyone who tried give Ritalin to kids and then direct the attention to the depression of the parents. If the PARENTS cured their depression, the kids will calm down. Any thoughts on this?
I ask cause it helps me to see the link more between my personality in response to my "parents" depression.
I'm extra sad recently because I went in for acupuncture and told the "doctors" my story, it turns out they released stagnant qi (energy) only to be fuel for the unhealthy pattern already at work (in others words, now I'm more spaced out, less grounded, eat more, breath more shallowly, and my nose drips unexpectedly). I later read that often acupuncture has the opposite effect. I offer this up as a red flag for others. TCM may have originally been about body/mind union but as it's practiced, in my opinion, it serves to further the split.
Thank you all! Full respects,
Anansi
"A negative is one stroke of vertical awareness away from being a positive" (heard this on a tape by Allen Cohen)
-
Anansi:
Can we cut a deal together? I'll tell you more about me and my life if you can tell me what needs they will meet for you?
I am not too sure what you mean in this statement, Anansi. You just seem to be very well read about the things you speak of and I was curious if you have done a lot of this work for your own good or if you chose to study for professional reasons. I do not think that knowing this information one way or another will necessarily meet any needs for me.
You have been courageous in offering some of the tidbits of your very personal journey. I hope that as you make your way through the posts you will find some solace and peace. No pressure to disclose more than you are ready for - absolutely none.
ANewSheriff
-
Hi ANewSheriff,
I confess I did feel pressure and I now see more clearly that my response was a bit passive-aggressive but it was also written in a friendly lets-be-friends tone. Thank you for your reply. I feel clear and sense that I know you better. Sorry.
I'm flattered if anyone might wonder I might be a professional (student or otherwise) in recovery. Not at all. I have many mountains to climb and dragons to face. And thank you for your positive feedback. I appreciate it. I'm happy to share whatever pieces I have to the healthy human living and relating puzzle. Thanks for saying that there's no pressure to disclose here. I feel better. Hey, I like your posting name.
I read what you wrote about also seeing the positive. I find so much "no" within me over this. I'll try, thank you.
About sensitivity: I've so often been told that I'm too sensitive. I don't really know psychologically what that means. Now I suspect that for me it means that I lack a sense of self, thus project too much onto others, leading to too much reactivity to their responses or lack thereof to me. Are there any other ideas about the psychology behind being "too sensitive?"
Anansi
"Blessed are those who find their home in their breath" - ?
-
Hiya Anansi
Welcome to the board... I hope you will find this a safe place where you can share if you want to.
Regarding your N's comments about yourself... I feel you are being to hard on yourself because I picked up on these in your posts:-
I confess I did feel pressure and I now see more clearly that my response was a bit passive-aggressive but it was also written in a friendly lets-be-friends tone. Thank you for your reply. I feel clear and sense that I know you better. Sorry.
I felt tears swelling to come up after reading your reply to me. Thank you. I will try a kind dialog. Thank you, I will try. And from your saying this, I feel less pressure to perform
May I join you?
From my personal experience I think an N wouldn't ask to join, wouldn't say sorry and wouldn't say how they feel.
I believe that anyone can become whatever they want to be if they want it enough. If you want to become more social, have more friends, I believe that you can achieve it.
Take care
H&H xx
-
Hi Anansi
I wanted to respond to this before but didn’t, so:
I've so often been told that I'm too sensitive. I don't really know psychologically what that means. Now I suspect that for me it means that I lack a sense of self, thus project too much onto others, leading to too much reactivity to their responses or lack thereof to me. Are there any other ideas about the psychology behind being "too sensitive?"
My immediate response is: who says this, what type of people are they, do you trust their perceptions, do you share their world-views?
I think it’s better to be told that you’re sensitive rather than insensitive?
Being sensitive, example. Hope you don’t mind if I look at this (hey you can say so, tell me to back off, okay?):
I am looking forward to learning the (more later) and (later) parts of your story.
Can we cut a deal together? I'll tell you more about me and my life if you can tell me what needs they will meet for you? I know it may seem obvious but it'll help me to hear it directly from you.
I’m thinking what have I missed, because you appear to be defensive. So I look back for the bracketed parts and find:
Only child, "father" put death wish on me (more later) and mother molested my entire soul away (later).
And I think: how would I feel about being asked for more information on those, in particular? Ummm I might be sensitive about that, I might wonder why someone wants to know particularly about those things, rather than saying simply ‘looking forward to hearing more from you’. Yes, I think I’d be on my guard, I’d imagine someone wanting to pry. Am I too sensitive? Too sensitive for what exactly?
This sounds so aggressive to me, the way I’ve written it. I thought, how could I say this differently, and I don’t know. Any suggestions? I’m being honest, I would have reacted defensively too, does that seem odd???
-
Hi Portia,
Thank you for the feedback, for sharing and for connection. And thank you for seeing the link between what I said about my childhood and for what I said about being "too sensitive." I feel seen and heard. And I didn't notice it before and you're right, if someone says "I look forward to hearing more from you" vs the other one, I feel better.
You wondered if there might have been a different way of saying what you said Well. ... I'm good with what you wrote, thank you for asking. It sounds like we both share a desire to express ourselves in as healthy a way as possible?
Hi H&H,
Thank you for your welcome. And after I read your feedback about how Ns don't do some of the things I did, I feel better. I appreciate you pointing this out to me. It helps me. Thank you again Portia and H&H for keeping this thread going.
I went tonight to a free intro lecture on Sufism. After the opening chants, the speaker talked about symbols. Someone from the audience asked what the symbolic meaning of the Cross meant. It was very unclear and vague but I felt uncomfortable, several people left and I suspect that some were offended. Actually, I was offended. Around that moment, it hit me that the only way for different cultures to understand each other is through psychological understandings - especially N (habits, tendencies and D). I will never return to hear this speaker (who came from Michigan) because I believe he has N too. Today I started reading "Trapped in the Mirror" - I'm assuming most regulars here on this board have read it. I was written in 1992. Have you?
Anansi
-
Wow, I just listened to a short radio interview of Sam Vaknin (www.ladybuglive.com/acl.htm) it was painful. At one point I thought the interviewer was about to break down and cry. Varkin did dramatically lower his tone of voice and tried to speak more gently for awhile. I suspect that in ten years time, his social skills (and mine) will be significantly better. The lesson for me is to put much much more focus on connecting and relating and much less on spreading insights (showing off). I just wanted to share this. I live alone and don't have anyone to talk to. I need to take in N material in small doses.
Whereever you may be today, may you see beauty.
Anansi
"A personality whose very existence is a derivative of its reflection in other people's minds is perilously dependent on these people's perceptions. They are the Source of Narcissistic Supply (NSS). Criticism and disapproval are interpreted as a sadistic withholding of said supply and as a direct threat to the narcissist's mental house of cards." - Sam Vaknin
-
Hi Anansi,
I don't think I've greeted you yet, though I've been meaning to. Your posts are very interesting. A whole different take on things. A variety of imagery. And I don't think I'd like actually listening to Vaknin, just based on what I've read on this board about him. I can't even handle Howard Stern, so Vaknin might do something to my very blood vessels.
Anyway, I'm enjoying your point of view.
Pennyplant
-
Hi Pennyplant, I hear you. And thanks for connecting and for taking care of yourself (by listening to your feelings and protecting them by not clicking on link).
Hi Bean, Thanks for your take on the interview. On reflection of what you said, yeah! you're right, he does sound like a professor in many ways. I hadn't thought of it at the time. I also appreciated the phrase "subtle abuse."
-
HI Anasni and all, Thank you for bringing up the subject of Mr.Sam Vakin .Mr.Vakin has his own website I believe that the fact he is a self proclaimed n causes problems.
I hope in your search as you reach out for connection Anasni you are feeling the kindness that is being sent to you :D,
What books are you reading now? Do you like to go to see movies? Also I love cats.I have 2 cats.The first one is named Ebebe and she has blue eyes and taupe and tan fur with grey tipped ears.Also we have Iris who is a kitten for my 13 year old daughter and Iris the kitten
is a calico with green eyes and she can go fetch.If I sit on a chair and toss a straw or light stick this kitty will chase it and bring it back to me .
Isn't that cute.............
Love and Light :D
Moonlight
-
Hi Moonlight,
Thank you for sharing and connecting. You hope to see me well via your encouragement saying Sam Vaknin's site is often a springboard to healthier resources, if that's right, thank you. And you hope I may feel some of the kindness that you've experienced here, if that's right, thank you. Yes, I've felt kindness here. And I celebrate how you've worked through some of self development things here. Say hi to your cats for me. I love cats too. And Bean, I support you in posting your truth - Fight the Good Fight.
About movies:
I'm now watching season 6 of West Wing - a great program.
I'd say that the guy who plays the British Ambassador to the US, Lord ... something (forgot his name) is a bonafide NPD.
And Toby and Josh are becoming less N in this season. They really made Mrs Bartlett into a smothering mother figure, didn't they?
All loveable characters (except for the Lord guy). Any other sharings on West Wing welcome!
Anansi
"I voted for West Wing but got the Sopranos" - ?