Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: anony123 on May 25, 2006, 08:51:02 PM
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What is 'cheating' exactly ?
Here is a possible example.
My G/f was engaged for 6 years to a young guy when they were both in their early twenties. SHe broke up with him and married another man,but stayed in contact with her EX.Fiance.(her husband did not know that they still talked)
A few years later she and the Ex went out to dinner and later, the husband pulled up beside them at the light. HE saw her in the car with the EX, went home and tossed her stuff out on the lawn. She arrived home and talked him 'down'. Was she cheating bt going out on a date without telling her Husband. ?? I am thinking that what she did had the potential to damage the trust in their marriage and therefor she should not have gone. I asked her about it and she said ," Sometimes I just do things without realising the consequences . I just seem to disassociate my actions from the impact it may have ." She said it as it this was a simple or basic element of her personality and therefor she is not really accountable. ?? Huh??
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I wouldn't feel good about it. Maybe if the ex turned up out of the blue and they went out for a beer and she couldn't reach her hubby but left him a note, that'd be more reasonable...but an ongoing friendship they kept secret, not. IMHO.
Do you feel uneasy when you think about this choice of hers, and this response?
If you do feel uneasy, do you respect that feeling?
Is it just a feeling wiith no meaning, or is it a warning system?
How do you feel when you imagine yourself as her spouse one day? Would you be worried there might be another exBF in the bushes? If so, you okay with that?
Bottom line: what kind of relationship/partner are you looking for? The clearer you can get on this, the happier your life will be. (Take it from someone who waited too long to decide character comes first, then chemistry...that I'm alone in middle age.)
Me, I would've rationalized it away when I was younger, since I was so needy I made endless excuses for people. IMO, you don't have to judge her harshly or hate her. No satisfaction in that really. But you might want to do some sober thinking about how much you value yourself.
Hops
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Hioppy, I am uneasy about her actions in the story above because I have also seen her engage in similar behavior in her relationship with me. This woman has NO trouble attracting fawning worship from males and she craves it in shiploads. It bothers me greatly because she also does not see that she is acting in ways that have the potential to damage what trust there is left between us.
She plays the 'helpless child' who is not aware of the consequences of her behavior. She thinks that she is innocent if she goes on a date with another guy because HE initiated it. She misuses her passivity in this way - She believes that because she does nothing actively, therefor she is faultless if stuff goes wrong. This tendency (or delusion)in her bothers me because it is I who usually carry the can for all the problems and she gets to play the hurt princess.
This is where I am with the definition of cheating. 'Cheating' to me is any sexual or romantic behaviour with a third person which damages, or has the potential to damage, the trust between a couple in an exclusive relationship.
Bean, I am not anyplace close to grasping entirely what you are saying. I struggle still with the practical issues in my life and the daily issues that I have with my G/f .
Jack.
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Dear Jack,
If you feel funny about things your girlfriend does, that's a "red flag". Justification/explanations/semantics/smokescreens for "cheating" aside, you sound like you know exactly what she is doing. WHY she is doing it is not your job to figure out....it's hers. Take it from a woman who made excuses/believed excuses for bad behaving men for way too long. Bad behavior is just that. You know it.
MY personal take on "cheating"? (having been on the recieving end, too)
If you cannot tell the person you love that you are talking to/going to places with someone else........you are betraying their trust in you, and yourself....and you are "cheating" on them.
I once had a man I was dating tell me that I couldn't come over to happy hour where he would be with another woman who was a former girlfriend...because "she would feel bad because I was so much prettier than she was".
That would be hilarious if I hadn't gone ahead and married the guy later (and divorced him...so it is still funny).
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oh, hey, I missed that....it's an EX? Ok, then, no more wasting energy there....you got that one figured out. It may smart for a while....and maybe that's where you are, and that's ok....
When you are ready to move on, you will.
Mum
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Question for me here - Is she an Ex G/f Or a G/f ??
Ok, last Saturday morning she and I had a talk at the mall at which time she said that she wanted to be "just friends"(she was real mad at me cause I froze her out for 3 weeks) Then we went to my place ,talked a little more and then had sex for over three hours. She then went home and later we met at 8pm and went out on a date till 1am. I do not care what words she used to try to talk herself, and me, into re-defining our relationship( " just friends"). I believe that her actions and mine define the relationship.... " Just friends" do not behave like we did last Saturday. She regularly uses words to try to change reality(she is a kindergarten teacher) and then she often behaves in a way that is quite inconsistent .She is heavy going sometimes.
Jack.
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well, Jack, I think you have reason to be concerned. Changing the rules of the game to suit themselves including the names of things.....or anything to twist things up in our heads....well, those are hallmarks of the personality disordered.
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OK -reality bit me in the ass !-It does not matter what or who she is or whether she is an Ex or not. What matters is that my relationship with her is loaded with anger and resentments and loneliness and a feeling in me that I am doing all the work and she is going along for the ride. I am the crew and she is cargo . THis is not what I want - not even close. So I guess that I know what I need to do next. Maybe this weekend ?
Jack.
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I certainly hope what I have said has not compelled you to do something you do not know for yourself you want or need to do. It's your life/your call. Well, you know that. Just don't want to be the advisor/big sister if you don't need that.
And not to be crass, Jack....just think with your big head. Having used my "feminine wiles" myself as a formerely young and screwed up person, I would remind you to keep your focus....unless of course, your priorities actually do shift (in which case, I suspect this drama could have many more episodes...and all possibly ending with you feeling like crud....not at the "moment" of course, but later, and in the long run).
I asked my daughter this not long ago (when she was struggling with a voice issue):
What would you do if you were not afraid?
It's a great way to discern if we are acting from a place of fear.
Another question I always ask (heck, I ask my students to identify this when solving a gradeschool conflict):
What do you want?
Good luck. You sound smart. I am sure you will be fine.
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Jack,
Just wanted to throw in my two cents here as another woman who has survived a cheating husband.
You asked what cheating is, exactly--then you defined it for yourself. That is all that matters--your definition. How the rest of us define it is irrelevant to this discussion. The bottom line is that if you truly love and care about someone, you also have and treat them with great respect. Cheating--no matter what form that takes--is the most disrespectful thing one partner can do to another. There will be pain, no matter how long the relationship has existed, but after a 22-year marriage with 2 wonderful children, the pain was more than I could have ever imagined.
Trust me, if she is not trustworthy now and doesn't take responsibility for bad behavior, that is not going to change and will most likely get worse. Imagine a lifetime of wondering what secrets she was keeping and lies she was telling to cover up her secrets. No relationship can survive that kind of deceit--nor should it. If I had cut and run the first time I caught my then boyfriend, later second husband lying about something important--I would not have been in the position of finding out 23 years later that our entire marriage was consumed with lies and secrets that were critical to the success of our marriage. As Dr. Phil says, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Words to live by.
Brigid
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I think it is absolutely! If that were the case, he caught her on a DATE?, lucky man to find out now than later. Good for him and she did him a favor, by being sloppy and getting caught I mean.
How would she of felt if the roles were reversed? What would of been her reaction?
I have not read any posts above, just sharing my first thoughts. seasons
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My connection with this lady seems to me (many times) to be a connection with her past .I am aware that I am the latest leading actor in her movie remake.
She had -
Alcoholic wealthy father who cheated and beat up Mom.
Alcoholic husband who had affairs and made ,and lost lots of money. numerous marital break-ups and reconciliations(within her marriage).
She says that she went to Alanon "To support my husband" ?
She never seriously sought help for her acute on chronic anxiety. She looks for "sugar daddy types ".
Maybe I am also addicted to having sex on a rollercoaster?
Jack (in confusiion)
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Hi Bean . most of what you said in the last post was true.
I was never allowed to be spontaneous or openly expressive. I was expected to'perform' up to my father's expectations for HIS benefit. He seemed to OWN my achievements. Does that sound wacky?
I do know how to live in tension and anxiety always expecting drama and 'the lightning bolt'
It now occurs to me that mt G/F is providing exactly these things- uncertainty !! By being passive and not quite available,she creates a tense and uncertain atmosphere. THis is attractive to me because I KNOW it well.
Another point - She comes from a wealthy alcoholic father who had affairs and beat up her Mom. Then she married an alcoholic bad boy who ran around , made lots of money and lost it and left her for a 17 year old bimbo.
Maybe she is also addicted to life on a rollercoaster AND if the man in her life does not provide turmoil and unheaval then SHE creates it becauseTHAT is what she is accustomed to . Huh ? Is this making any sense.
Jack. ( I Did the AA program 16 years ago too) Maybe I need to return there to deal with my woman addiction?
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Maybe she is also addicted to life on a rollercoaster AND if the man in her life does not provide turmoil and unheaval then SHE creates it becauseTHAT is what she is accustomed to . Huh ? Is this making any sense.
Nail on the head kind of sense. You got it.
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Hi there,
I was going to write a REALLY long response to your post, but then Mum said what i was trying to say in about seven words.
P.S. good luck...i am sure this is a very difficult time for you...what with the lightbulbs flashing on everywhere.
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Tonight will be a challenge -she will be attending the same social function that I am going to.
Willpower is all I have.
Wish me luck .
Jack (getting tougher)