Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: logos4philo on May 30, 2006, 11:59:00 PM
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:shock:
I can't believe it happened. Things were going along rather well in our relationship and all of a sudden he started to insult me and my family. I thought he did not mean it. I thought he was joking or maybe I was just in denial. I know I should have walked away from the relationship when he would not stop his cruel verbal attacks, but he provided me some kind words, too. It was a mixed bag. How does one know when to leave for good?
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Welcome, Logos4Philo,
I hope this link might help a little. (See item 6...)
On edit: forgot the link. Here 'tis: http://www.enotalone.com/article/4112.html
Best to you,
Hopalong
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Thanks Hop,
That is a very good article. He also said he wishes I were an intellectual. I wish I were an intellectual, too, and I am going to try to become one by earning a PhD in French Literature and becoming a dynamic member of the intellectual community. But that won't make him like me. What do you think it means to be an intellectual? He does not think one has to have a lot of education to be one. Basically, he thinks I lack merit.
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OK you have a N boy friend
Do you know what that means??
No matter what you ""become"' it will not be ENOUGH
Love isn't about becoming anything
it is about loving and accepting you for who you are
I have an N b/f too and no matter what I did.....it was not and never will be enough ( I have N parents too)
( i was so thin at one point it was nuts and he was still telling me i was too fat!)
I have a Masters but i am ""not able to communicate with anyone"" his words (My degree is in psychology!)
I have my own home and have started a business which is doing well (and have always owned property) but i am no good with money (He has rented in the same place for 20 years!!) and is in horrible debt and made me in debt ) I am too old (he is three years older then me) I am a bad parent (he has never had children)
It goes on and on
It isn't not easy getting out of a N relationship (its called being codependent)
but if you really want too then you must cut all ties
You will never be good enough for your N b/f He will always find fault with you (seldom will he mention your good points unless he thinks you are leaving him ) It is a toxic relationship with no hope of happiness and it will never get better. N's are mentally ill. Don't forget it
blue
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Logos,
I think I need to hear more about your life story before I can comment.
I am wondering if your letter is a spoof.
My intuition could be off, though.
Hopalong
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Hop,
I wish it were a hoax. I wish I had not put myself through approx. a year of an abusive relationship. I could not pull myself away from him despite his mistreatment of me. I would like to know how to prevent future bad decisions. But most of all, I want to get over the pain I have allowed myself to endure in this last relationship. He was not emotionally available to me for the most part. Once, I called him crying and he didn't even ask me why I was crying. He simply told me he wouldn't be able to speak with me for several hours. Still, this didn't convince me to break up with him. Anyway, I am kicking myself for allowing myself to be strung along.
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Hi logos4philo
Sorry to hear about your situation. I'm interested, just a side thing, hope you won't mind - your name is unusual, does it mean anything in particular? I was wonderng whether it had anything to do with your interest in becoming an 'intellectual' (which i think is simply someone who likes to think about things in great depth?)?
This probably sounds rude too, but can i ask, is English your first language? To me your writing style is a little - well, without style - and I wondered why? Perhaps there's another reason? Hope that's not too probing...
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Welcome, Logos.
I am sure a lot of us can relate to what you say about your life....and your boyfriend. Asking yourself WHY you put up with this is very important to do....but only with help (here....friends, maybe a therpist?) because the reason we usually get into those relationships is that we are not valuing ourselves.....and then finding that out, at least in my experience, led to totally beating myself up all over again for thinking so little of myself! A pretty nasty little circle of self hatred!
So, go easy on yourself. You only "mistake" you've made (well, I don't believe in "mistakes") was to love someone who didn't deserve it. These N's are "emotional vampires" (great book, by the way) who will suck the loving energy out of you....it's their N supply.....and we give it willingly, thinking "love will conquer all". Well, it does, but only with those who know what love is. Save yourself, sweetie.
All I needed to see was your title of your thread. You put it there. Read it over and over and listen to YOURSELF....not to him.
YOU are worth the life you deserve.
Bless you....I will send you all good intention and strength for your journey...(you lucky woman. You get to find out just how wonderful you are!!!!)
PS: my second ex N was an "intellectual artist". (read: poor, resentful, snooty, deep down insecure) (vomiting sound please...we don't have an icon for that). I've never been around so many N's in one place as I was while with him..... Talk about souless zombies! Brrrrrr. People who are booksmart, or lifesmart or smart at all, don't go around CALLING themselves intellectuals and certainly they don't expect others to "rise" to the call of "intellectualism". G'me a break. (another vomit sound, ok)?
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My apologies, Logos. It must've been the late hour. No idea why I was unsure, unless it might be the language thing Portia wondered about. You can let us know.
(Note to self: you just debated with Mudpup whether people are guilty until proven innocent or the other way 'round, you twit!)
Back to you. I completely agree with Mum's spot-on slice 'n dice here:
People who are booksmart, or lifesmart or smart at all, don't go around CALLING themselves intellectuals and certainly they don't expect others to "rise" to the call of "intellectualism".
And I am very sorry for what you've been through. Here you will find story after story of people who "awoke" to why they were attracted to bad relationship partners, how it is usually renacting something from their childhood and trying to make it right, and how they make strenuous and wholehearted efforts to become aware.
It's sharing the awarenesses, step by painful or Eureka! step, that we help each other.
Welcome, Logos.
Hopalong
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Mum and Hopalong,
I very much appreciate your kind and thoughtful comments to me. I have had such a hard time with the loss! It's of course more like a divorce but it feels a bit like death. He won't respond to me e-mails so I'm talking to a wall when I write to him. I sent him a note via snail mail today and I suppose that will be my last missive to him. Everyone says "just move on!" but that is so hard to do. I am definitely not a stalker-type and I won't bother him with calls, but I really enjoyed his company despite his cruel comments and seemingless thoughtless behaviors sometimes. It is a grieving process and I definitely don't want to make the wrong choice in a significant other ever again. I have to stop looking for powerful people to validate my existence. The power I am and have always been drawn to is intellectual prowess. I am going towork on possessing that which I admire in others.
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Hi Logos,
I have to stop looking for powerful people to validate my existence.
Me too. I try to remember this:
When we make heroes of others, we diminish ourselves.
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Hi wordforlove,
What do you think it means to be an intellectual?
In my experience it usually means one is a stuck-up sticky-beak. :shock: :?
Some of the smartest, most intellectually cultivated people I know are also some of the cruelest. And if they aren't cruel they are often utterly clueless.
IMO all human beings are basically imbeciles. Some happen to be better at processing or retaining certain information than others, but virtually everyone makes similar mistakes, similar miscalculations, are similarly gullible or unwise. And historically intellectuals have been particularly prone to just about every human weakness and unhappiness. (Before anyone has a cow, I'm only speaking in generalities.)
What matters is what is in the heart not the head.
Solomon got it right in Ecclesiastes. All of our pursuits, whether intellectual or material are, in the long run, in vain.
I think it is more rewarding to cultivate the heart than the mind. It tends to attract a nicer class of people as well, I've found.
mud
BTW, can't see anything wrong with your writing. Seems pretty clear and straightforward to me.
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I think it's quite feasible to cultivate the mind and the heart simultaneously, don't you, mudpuppy? I wanted people to see my name as meaning "reason for love". I'm still stewing over the breakup of my relationship with that guy. It hurts so much and as a result, I began pulling out the hair on the crown of my head! It's quite a mess now...it looks sick! The bald spot is the size of my palm and it's smack dab in the center of the top of my head. I am going to have to take extreme measures to cover this testament to the pain I've been going through. He wrote to me today and said we'd never be together again romantically and it just makes me so despondent, I can't even articulate it. I have a tendency to cycle back on all of the negatives of my life, but he was in many ways an excellent catch. I felt he and I really cathected on multiple levels. Mudpuppy, thanks for expressing something positive about my writing. Je peux ecrire en francais aussi. I am American, though. I would have liked to have been in attendance at Cannes this year. Oh well...perhaps next year! Thanks for writing. Cheers.
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Has anyone ever had a good, long-term relationship with a narcissist? What does that sort of relationship look like? Do they even exist?
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Logos,
The end of this relationship is triggering you to harm yourself. Even if it's just hair-pulling, litererally snatching the crown of your head bald is extreme. (FYI, bald people are no more intellectual than people with hair... :?)
Anyway, it's too much, imho, what you're doing. You're feeling great pain and strong compulsion at the same time, is that right? I am wondering if you're willing to consider getting yourself to a therapist at the start of the week? And then line up support group meetings of any sort (Co-Dependency, Women's Support Group, Al-Anon whether you "qualify" or not, any church you like) so you'll have a place to be with people and get support every single day. If you do that, you'll weather this transition more sanely and come out on the other side with a lot more awareness of yourself, your relationship with yourself. You do have one, you know. And right now, you're not being very kind to you.
Hope you won't struggle alone. Glad you're here, too.
Hops
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Hopalong, I liked your suggestions to Logos about getting together with some supportive people. I agree.
I have to stop looking for powerful people to validate my existence.
This is sooooooooooooooooo true!
I'm addressing this AS one of those, what you'd refer to as "powerful" people. Though I'm not wealthy at all, not materialistic really, I appear to others to "have all your ducks in a row." I'm not really struggling with N'ism from another (Jodi and I don't talk anymore), I'm recovered and healed from the majority of my formerly-codependent/borderline ways of thinking, I'm off all meds, except my thyroid one...so, to many I'd be one of those "powerful" people, who seem to have things all together...and I am RESENTED for it by those who don't have it' together" either by their own choice or whatever...
I don't need to define anyone. They don't need to define me. This goes for every individual. We are people in our own right, who do not need another person to tell us who we are, or, if we feel we do, we SHOULD not. I am one who talks about not using the word "should" but here, I will use it. You SHOULD NOT allow another person to have that kind of power over you...to DEFINE WHO YOU ARE AND MAKE YOU FEEL EXISTENT...if you are doing this, you need to get to a therapist, as Hopalong said. It's not healthy and it is wasting a lot of your life, where you could be doing other things that you really LOVE doing.
~ReallyMe,
Laura
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I haven't pulled out any more hair today, so that's good. I looked in the mirror and it appears absolutely frightful. The bald spot the size of my palm is just disgusting and shocking. I am so angry that I did that to myself over the loss of this guy. He's not even a loss really because he barely treated me well anyway. He insulted my family almost every day and my family is just fine! I believe he also has histrionic personality disorder, and antisocial personality disorder. He is not bound by normal rules for interacting in society. He feels he does not need to answer to anyone. I can't believe I became so involved with someone so messed up. But because he is so brilliant and talented and handsome, I was willing to overlook that he did not really treat me very well. I enjoyed so much basking in the warm light of his brilliance, that I did not realize I was all the while being burned from the inside.
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Hi logos,
logos=word. Guess my Christianity was showing. In the beginning was the Word (logos).
I think it is possible to cultivate the mind and the heart simultaneously. But of the two IMO, the heart is far more important.
I know people who pretty much only cultivate the heart and they are wonderful people. I also know some who only cultivate the mind. They are pretty miserable people. Those are the ones I consider intellectuals.
Has anyone ever had a good, long-term relationship with a narcissist?
I doubt it. The only way to have a good relationship with an N is if they are no longer an N.
What does that sort of relationship look like?
Since you can't have a good relationship, it generally looks like either a life long donnybrook or its a similar relationship to the one between Doc Frankenstein and Egore. Total domination by the N and weak, feckless submission by the servile stooge.
And I would seriously consider Hop's suggestions.
mud
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Hop,
Thanks a tonne for the suggestions; I so appreciate them. And Mud's also, certainly. I've been pulling out my hair again, but as there is just a little left on the sweet spot of my head, I am not that interested in pulling out more. I look like Friar Tuck! Scary, truly!
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You're very welcome, Logos.
I think if it were me, I'd get an appointment with a psychiatrist and show her/him my poor head and talk it all through.
I know you can be helped.
Hops
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Hi Logos,
This is a quote from a letter I just read on another forum...sounds like there's good help available:
habits [such as hair pulling] are brought on by anxiety or distraction and persist despite social embarrassment. You may talk to a psychiatrist about a drug called clomiprimine which is said to help with OCD related behaviors. Incidently, hair pulling has been linked to eating disorders. Please do not disparage yourself. You are not weak. Perhaps you are suffering from a chemical imbalance.
Hops
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Logos,
I agree with the advice you have gotten from several people on this thread. A good therapist and/or psychiatrist will be able to help you a great deal. I am glad you realize you must stop seeking powerful people's validation. It is such a big step to realize that you must validate yourself.
As for the issues surrounding intellectualism, it would be helpful to ask yourself about your own motivations. What does it mean to be an intellect? Why is being an intellectual important to you? Will getting an academic degree really make you an intellectual or are there other components that are important?
I don't say many things with confidence, but I do feel the following statement is true: Going to Cannes and becoming an "intellectual" will not make you happy unless you work on some other things in your life. I come from a whole family of self-proclaimed intellectuals. Intellect and the power exercised through intellect are the only admirable persuits in my family of origin. And they are a miserable lot. They are academically and professionally outstanding, but they are socially and emotionally crippled people. They are not happy.
This is not so say that getting an education wouldn't contribute to your happiness and sense of well-being. I like intellectual stuff (however you define it); its fun to exercise your (one's) brain. But some things in life are more important than attending classes at a prestigious university. You need to sort those things out first.
Do the work to take good care of your body (especially your poor head!). Nurture your heart and your soul, and you will nurture your intellect in the process.
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Hop,
thank you kindly for the advice and the information. I have already spoken with a psychiatrist and she has upped my dosage of an antidepressant and also given me anti-anxiety meds. I am feeling quite a bit better now, so thanks. The anxiolytic drugs are quite potent, apparently. I'm embarassed about my bald spot...I will have to swim with a swimming cap on...guess that's not too bad. Do you know any PhD philosophers by chance? If so, what do you think of their personality and character?
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Iamnew,
Thanks very much for your insightful comments. I think I mis-wrote when I said I was looking for someone else to validate my existence. What I am looking for is someone who can complement me and who really loves being with me. We are all taught from an early age that those who have money and prestige and looks and athleticism all in one are supposedly the best "catches". But I know that's not all there is to a relationship. In fact, that does not guarantee a good relationship at all. I have to look carefully at how I am being treated by a man and then decide based on that whether to continue to see him. If I and my family are being verbally assaulted, then I should take the hint and move on. This happened before to me and I decided to remain in the relationship because I thought his treatment of me would eventually improve. It never did. I wasted my precious year.
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Hi Logos,
My deceased exH was not a PhD but was a serious student of philosophy. Eventually I realized he preferred books to me. I do think a lot, but my own mind doesn't enjoy "pure" idea.
Myy take is, I don't think intellectual is a negative...I think unbalanced is. Where would we be without people who immerse themselves deeply in the world of ideas? Sometimes there's a cost in terms of connectedness to people, depending how far they go...
I no longer hero-worship intelligence on its own. My ex was truly brilliant, but I lived with his mean streak. If kindness, humor and honesty aren't also present in a person, you could be Einstein, and I'd rather talk to the wise janitor...
Hops
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I've stopped pulling out my hair! This is a victory over anxiety and impulse. I am so thankful my meds were not counterfeits and so actually worked. My ex is no longer calling me but he did just the other night to make sure I had not committed suicide and then asked me how it was at 4:30 am my time. I told him I was sleeping so he hung up. Haven't heard from him since. This is the one who emotionally abused me and ridiculed me and my family almost daily. Do you think I should be happy not to have heard from him again?
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he asked me how I was..not "it was".
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Logos,
I haven't read the whole way through the thread, but there was something that struck me... you said he wished you were an "intellectual." And you also said you did not kjnow what that was to him. I am sure he doesn't know what that means either... Ns get this vague idea of something they idolize... but it also shifts to match their mood. As you said here, you could never fulfill his "hopes" for you.
I know you are horrified that you wasted a year with him... on the bright side... you didn't marry him. Thank God!
You sound like a great, smart and fun person. Time to pick up and walk away. I honestly can say I don't know what it's like to get sucked in by an N in a relationship... for some reason I've been lucky that way. But it must make you doubt yourself and hurt your self-esteem. Please remember, this was all about HIM, not about you. You are great and need to realize that, although you got duped, you can and will find a nice person... and now you have some extra knowledge to help you find him!
Love, Beth
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Hi Grati,
Thanks for the glowing proto-compliments. I mean proto because they are based on your assumptions about me and not your real-life interaction with me. I really appreciate them. I don't want to stop thinking about him though because so much about him I did like but then so much about him I did not, which all centered around how he (mis)treated me. He did not really seem to care about my feelings and was not very considerate all around. For instance, while we were driving, he turned the music up so he wouldn't have to converse with me and I made the trip out to see him! The audacity, right? Also, he would barely let me talk anyway because he would often watch tv shows or movies, so I couldn't really get in a nano-sized word, let alone solid discourse. Why do I miss him so oooooo much?
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Logos,
It sounds to me like you are still enjoying your misery. So, when I comes time, I think you will no longer want to hurt yourself to prove a point. I think, basicall, until you decide that you are ready for a new, healthful lifestyle, you will cling on to this relationship to punish yourself. I also have to say, after having gone through and read the remainder of your posts, I , too, get an idea you try to use complex language in order to either seem like an intellectual or to separate yourself from others.
Are you discussing any of these things with your therapist?
You must feel bad about yourself to have permitted this man to treat you this way.
I wish you a new beginning and new-found love for yourself.
Beth
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Thanks, Beth...But the thing is that I don't enjoy misery. I also just gobbled up two pints of ice cream. It's self-sabotage to the nth degree. I haven't exercised in a month or so because of the emotional pain. Those words just spilled out of me, actually. I thought they would best convey what I was thinking. If he ever calls me again, Beth, do you think I should speak with him or just not respond? He has done so many horrible things to me which I won't even mention here.
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Hi Logos,
Should you talk to him if he calls again? Pretend for a moment that you were a heroine addict, and you had just kicked the habit. If your old drug dealer called, would you talk to him? Or would you run for your life?!? I am not saying that you are addicted to this man or to N relationships. I am not saying that at all. But this is how I felt once when I was in a relationship with an N (he was brilliant and felt it beneath him to really talk to me). When I figured it out, I brooded for a long time, beat myself up, and then gathered all my courage and strength. Then I ran like hell and never looked back.
My advice: Run and don't look back. No contact. You can do this! You deserve to be happy with yourself. And some day, you will find someone who loves you and treats you with all the kindness and respect you deserve.
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IamNew: Should you talk to him if he calls again? Pretend for a moment that you were a heroine addict, and you had just kicked the habit. If your old drug dealer called, would you talk to him? Or would you run for your life?!?
I am not saying that you are addicted to this man or to N relationships.
Um, I am. I will go so far as to say you are addicted if you continue to take an abuser back. I will also say that you might have signs of stockholm syndrome and Codependency. The N's plan is to get us to be addicted to them, so that they can devalue and leave us, yet keep us on the side long enough to torture us by dangling their "new love" in our face, telling us how we fell so short compared to so and so. Believe me, it is very much an addiction in every sense of the word, but it's not totally our fault either. They woo and promise and even grant some of those promises, to a point that we almost crave the insanity for a long time after. Once you finally break free from the N-Web, only THEN do you realize how addicted to them you really were.
Just my view,
~Laura
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Actually Bean,
It is a good idea for someone to research everything ANYONE posts here. Most abused people DO have Stockholm syndrome, when they are talking about their "loving" parents, even after they were abused by them and other N's. You might not like it and neither do others who deal with it, but it's a fact. I'm never going to "get" why people with problems are afraid to really LOOK at those things and work toward freedom, however, I will not be silenced ever again, nor told HOW to communicate something.
~RM
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Thank you all! You've been so very helpful and kind. It's so cool that you are all here localized and that I found you and that you have responded so thoughtfully to my issues. I am one of those people who reads all about her problems online like my hair-pulling problem for instance. And I came here to find out about Ns and their very toxic strategies which seem to work on us most of the time. They create vortices that suck us in that seem as strong as the bermuda triangle is purported to be. I'm so thankful to al gore (joke) for creating the internet so i could connect with you very good, thoughtful, generous of spirit people!
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Logos,
I think there is no question that you need to completely cut off contact with the user. But I think issues go deeper than this. I don't think that you are hurtng yourself only over this person. It seems to me that there must have been something in your background that has caused to you hurt yourself, and somehow this man was the trigger.
Is that the case?
Did you say you are seeing a therapist?
I am interested to hear more of your story.
Beth
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I called him. Even after I read a book over and over called "Don't Call that Man". I really enjoyed talking with him until I realized again that he is not my boyfriend anymore. Then he told me about what he really wants in a woman. What he described is not who I am but I guess I could become with a formidable plastic surgeon. I haven't written him or called since though. I miss his cleverness but I feel horrible that he didn't choose me as his life-partner. I wanted to be the one to spend time with him and read in bed with him and discuss all manner of ideas, etc. etc. I'm so unlucky! But then I am not that unlucky because I saw on PBS the other night a documentary about little boys in Bolivia who work in silver mines and will die of silicosis because they need to make money to support their mothers and siblings. There are 800 little boys working in mines in Bolivia. I wish I could persuade some individual(s) and/or organizations to subsidize those boys' lives so that they don't have to work in the mines but can go to school instead.
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Logos,
I have been through the painful compulsion to keep contacting someone who's told me it's over. I was a raging CoDependent.
Are you getting a grip on it? I think No Contact is the rule for you....
Good that you're absorbed by the Brazilian boys' plight...anything that takes you out of the drama with your Ex. Time will take care of the rest, if you let it work.
Hops
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Another thought, Logos:
When that has happened to me (rather not count) I have found comfort in honestly asking myself this:
Do I really, in reality, want a life with a partner/mate who does not enthusiastically want me?
Even at my most insecure, there was only one answer.
Hops
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I miss his cleverness but I feel horrible that he didn't choose me as his life-partner. I wanted to be the one to spend time with him and read in bed with him and discuss all manner of ideas, etc. etc. I'm so unlucky!
Some day I think you will look back on that sentence and be both amused and astonished that you ever thought that way. To escape, by the narrowest of margins, being hooked permanently to an N is one of the luckiest things that can ever happen.
It is only slight hyperbole to say that after a few months or years of being legally tied to and living with the hell of a Narcissist you might very well have wished to trade your life for one in a Bolivian silver mine.
You are better than he deserves. His adolescent mind apparently pines for the the new anatomically correct Barbi with the built in echo chamber. Aren't you more than some idiot's boyhood daydream of an action figure?
The problem with guys who want dolls instead of real women is they will toss you in the closet as soon as next year's model comes out. There is someone who wants you for you. Be patient and he'll come along.
mud
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Mud, actually he seems to want someone who is brilliant like he is and very attractive to him. It seems he is drawn to women who have doctorates in the humanities who can spar with him intellectually. It seems like a reasonable wish on his part. I know everyone has his own agenda in life. But he used me and threw me in the lurch. He completely led me on! It's partly my fault for allowing myself to be exploited, but I just kept hoping and hoping he would begin to treat me with the respect I know I deserve. I mean I know I am one of the kindest and most thoughtful people I have ever known to exist! Kindness and thoughtfulness are qualities that are completely legitimate to boast about because they are not superficial, cannot be purchased, and are extremely underrated. I wish he valued me. I'm so dejected and bald and I hate having to cover up my bald spot every day with a barrette.
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Kindness and thoughtfulness are qualities that are completely legitimate to boast about because they are not superficial, cannot be purchased, and are extremely underrated.
Good for you, Logos! This sounds feisty and healthy and self-respecting!
But this does not:
I wish he valued me.
I wish you valued you.
When you do...you won't ask yourself that kind of question any more. That's the direction to go, with every bit of support and cheering-on you can find for yourself.
Do you believe this, I wonder? Do you truly believe, deep down inside, that active kindness toward yourself, that becomes a state of being in which you would NEVER tolerate yourself pining for someone who used and discarded you, is your goal?
Hops
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It seems he is drawn to women who have doctorates in the humanities who can spar with him intellectually. It seems like a reasonable wish on his part.
Not to me. Sparring is for the boxing ring. Thoughtful discussions are for the intellect. Intellectual sparring is a euphimism in their minds for the infantile desire to dominate another.
Mud, actually he seems to want someone who is brilliant like he is and very attractive to him.
Then he should go F himself because who is as brilliant as he is and who is as attractive to himself as the guy in the mirror?
Who the heck cares what he wants? What do you want; a bum who makes you literally pull your hair out or somebody who values you just the way you are?
BTW, its been my experience that most of these people aren't nearly as smart as they fool others (and themselves) into believing. They have facile minds and are quick witted, hence their proclivity for 'intellectual sparring' but there is no depth to their intellect. There is no wisdom, no discernment. Intellect without wisdom or compassion gave us people like Marx and Nietzsche and all the loveliness that followed them. Most Ns are similar, they just operate on a smaller scale leaving a personal path of destruction not a worldwide one.
They know but they don't understand.
Solomon said, "Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom. And in all thy getting, get understanding."
And he was right. With a little more understanding I think you'll see just what a harmful dork this guy is and how fortunate you are that he did not appreciate you. A bald spot, which after all grows back (well maybe not for me :x), is a lot cheaper than the bill that comes due if they really get their hooks in you permanently.
mud
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Hi Logos,
What he, Mud, said, times two:
Who the heck cares what he wants? What do you want; a bum who makes you literally pull your hair out or somebody who values you just the way you are?
There are some great ideas of 'what love is' on the Love thread, if you'd like other perspectives. What it ISN'T, among other things, imho, =judging/conditional/superficial/selfish/perfect/one-sided/egotistical and, well, sucky. One possibly worthwhile question: Do you think this guy spends 1/100th of the amount of time thinking about what you want, expect, desire as you do concerning him?
I think only you get to decide what you're worth, Logos, and I hope you'll realize soon that you're worth much more than this me-oriented poseur (imho, any self described 'intellectual' may as well say 'Hey, my head's real far up my a##,' as that's what I hear!)
Please excuse my bluntness. It's an affliction. You deserve all good things, Logos. Hope you'll throw all the positive energy you have into seeking them.
Peace,
:D
LoH
PS - All that and a little handclap for Mud; just gotta' appreciate a guy who can say 'Go F yourself' and quote Solomon in the same post...
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All the kind hearted angels seem to have gathered on this website you all are wise and good and kind ,And I thank you for helping
me to be free of my n dad ,I just need to hold on to it.I know I will .Thanks (N-DAD,N-BF)
Moonlight
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Boy do I agree when you say these people aren't as smart as they think they are. I have noticed that Ns have such an amazing aggrandizement of their knowledge. But they sound like broken records when you really listen. It's the same few things that have garnered a reaction before that they spout over and over.