Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: pennyplant on June 12, 2006, 03:17:28 PM
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On the Triangulation thread, Teartracks mentioned about Making a New Me after the collapse of the pseudo-self. This topic does have meaning for me but I'm not sure how to approach it. It might be too broad to talk about both the pseudo-self and the creation of a new self in one thread. Or maybe you can't talk about one without the other.
This is one point of view I bring to this topic: I think, or hope, that there is a basic nature in me that has merely been covered over or hidden away in favor of survival or coping skills. That it is a journey of discovery. Looking for Little Pennyplant.
Are there things you can specifically do that bring you closer to that genuine self? Exercises? Thought patterns? Mostly what I've been doing the last few years feels like floundering. Lots of trial and error. Going with the flow and trying to identify accompanying emotions.
If the peripheral people give a shape to society (thank you, Hops, for that image), what is it about the personality gives a shape to the self?
Anansi said, what you love, you have time for. What you love seems like maybe one big clue to who you are.
What are some other clues?
The collapse of the pseudo-self seems like a prerequisite to discovering the genuine self. The pseudo-self strikes a chord with me. Because I have begun to suspect that the way I have acted much of my life is not true to my nature. The only other name I had for it was "over-achiever." But Teartracks' idea seems more accurate now that she has mentioned it.
Also, I have trouble with "old" selves. Once I've learned better, for example becoming a better mother, what do I do with the old "bad" self? How do I let it go or should I let it go?
I hope this isn't too old of a topic for people who are farther along than me. But since I've been floundering with it so long, I'm guessing that means I need some outside perspectives. A fresh way of looking at it.
Pennyplant
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OK, Pennyplant, when did you get in my head and start living my life????????? :wink: Your post is deep, but I've got to run right now. I'll be back to this later. Very interesting!!!
Adrift
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I don't know, A, I think maybe I got too deep.
Perhaps this is not a particularly universal problem. Sometimes I do think that most people have a firmer sense of what kind of person they are. What makes me think I'm caught between a pseudo-self and a true self, is that for the first time in my life most of the demands on my time are gone. Kids grown up, father deceased, friends pretty well busy with their own lives, money not such a huge problem anymore. So, now I'm left to my own devices many hours of the day.
And it turns out I'm not this overly-organized, uptight, tense person most of the time. I'm kind of lazy and spend a lot of time day-dreaming. Forgetful. And I was never this way before. Not even as a child for the most part. I don't think I allowed it.
At work, though, I'm hyper and nervous and busy all the time. Motivated from the outside. Worrying people might think I'm not doing my job. Worrying about mistakes. Performance. Being worth my wage. Wanting co-workers to think I'm "witty" and fun. Nobody believes I'm really pretty lazy at home.
It seems like the "home" me might be truer. Or maybe I'm just halfway there. I spend a lot of my free time in this place or thinking about this place. So, it is a time of healing and maybe that's taking all my energy. It is a real luxury to be able to do this without my husband complaining or getting jealous.
So, I guess I just wonder what I want to get rid of (which parts are the pseudo-self) and how I grow the parts that belong. How I find those parts. Will I even like the stuff I find?
So, if somebody comes up with maybe one thing they have learned was not who they really are--how did you know it was just a survival skill? And not the real self?
And, Sela, you don't have to post just because you feel sorry for this thread! Okay? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Pennyplant
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Hi, PP:
I guess I just wonder what I want to get rid of (which parts are the pseudo-self) and how I grow the parts that belong. How I find those parts. Will I even like the stuff I find?
You are such a thinker. (((PP)))
I think the best way to find your missing or squleched parts is to beam compassion into yourself, and not demand that you be congruent or "make sense."
I think if you take a position of loving listening, and TRUST, in your innate self...and just sit there sending yourself unconditional love, beaming it on in like a spotlight...
love,
Hops
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PP,
What an awesome topic!!!!!!!!!
As I've told you, I am in recovery - AA. I definitely did not know myself at all when I decided it was time for a change. Everything was all jumbled up inside and it was hard to pull the real from the perceived. Hmmm. how did I let go of some of the bad stuff? Well, I won't 12 step you to death, but there's this one step where we go over all of the bad things we have done and tell them to one person and relieve our heart of them and ask God to take them away. I am not a big God person, but I am working on the spirtuality part, and it is helping. I admitted to someone else what I have done to hurt people. I have also made a decision to ask for help continuing to become a better person, i.e., giving up old habits and ideas. I look for progress and know I won't be perfect in my search. Does this make any sense to you?
If you are not in a recovery program... what about still doing a journal or some such thing of what you want to let go? Could you read these to a trusted friend or a minister or Priest?
I also look at the things I believed about myself and now I can see which of them were not real. It doesn't matter where they came from, but I have been a faithful wife for 13 years, an adoring mom of two amazing kids. I paint. I knit. I don't go to the gym anymore (that's one of my goals), I try to keep to a diet (don't do that so well), I keep in touch with my parents, I try to help out my friends. I am a hard worker. I hate rainy weather... and cold weather. I can't sit through a whole movie.
That's ME ME ME ME ME.
WHo are you????????
Love, Beth
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I have this pseudo-self that the world and family see, all except my best friend (bf) and husband (DH). Thank goodness my bf is nearly as crazy as I am (I'm half kidding on that) and she so understands me. Tonight she and I were talking and she said "I've known for 10 years you have a psuedo self" ---it's so great to have a friend who sees through me and tells it like it is. She and I help each other through all the tough times. She's been begging me to go back into counseling and I've finally agreed. I was telling her how much I've learned on this board :lol:
You know, it's a lot of work to maintain a psuedo self which is probably why I often avoid people---it's just too much work.
Thanks for starting this thread!
Adrift
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(((Hops and Beth)))
This is so cool! These answers surprised me. And I love surprises!!
I will try the advice both of you have given. It will be hard. I don't know if it sounds hard to anybody else, but I can already picture myself shifting around and looking everywhere but where I'm supposed to be looking. That's how I know it will be hard. Such a little kid inside!
It's good to have something concrete.
Thank you so much :D .
Pennyplant
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Penny,
It IS really hard. If you need to back off of a certain subject, do. Deal with the ones you can first. The ones that keep bothering you wiill bother you until you get the courage to let go of them and then you will feel free! Don't try to do too much at once. A little progress will give you a lot of peace.
(((((((((((((((((((((((PennyPlant))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Adrift,
Your best friend sounds like something of a soul mate. What a gift to have someone like that in real life who understands these things. What is really nice is that she figured out the pseudo-self a long time ago and stuck around--I suppose because she likes the real self so much. Do you think she brings out your best qualities? I have had a couple friends like that. It is easy to relax and be real around them because they do bring out the best. The happy parts. It is not such a struggle with them. My best friend in 8th grade was like that for me. And I knew it at the time! It was probably the best couple of years of my childhood when I knew her.
I do have a hard time even admitting how much work it is to maintain qualities that are not really how I feel. Probably because I pick a way to be that I think others value, that I decided are good ways to be. What makes me think those are "good" qualities? Gotta let go of so much of this. Maybe if I didn't have to spend so much energy on being a certain way, then I might actually be doing the things that will be satisfying.
Yes, this board is a great place to learn. I learn something new every single day here.
Tell your friend Pennyplant says "Hi". She sounds great :) .
Pennyplant
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Penny,
It IS really hard. If you need to back off of a certain subject, do. Deal with the ones you can first. The ones that keep bothering you wiill bother you until you get the courage to let go of them and then you will feel free! Don't try to do too much at once. A little progress will give you a lot of peace.
(((((((((((((((((((((((PennyPlant))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Okay, Beth, I'll pace myself. It took me 45 years to get to this point--I don't need to be in such a hurry. What would Hops say? "Breathe....."
PP
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Hi PP Creating a self Seems like a big job.Where do we start .I can tell you what experiences have led me to "feeling"
worthy.Well this one happened when my twin passed suddenly and then I or what I called myself disappeared.I was reborn in the way
that my twin and I thought of ourselves as one.Then I had to build a twin less twin into me.Then a lot of good happy sanity with hubby and 2 beautiful Moon children. Then I had too untie the strange and painful knot of my family of origin .Its a hard job but some one has to do it.
I am no longer anyones victim but I am me the real me I am becoming the real me .I am comfortable with love I am not going over and yell at cruel family of origin,family members or n father.
But I get to be free and me .I am not all there yet but I can see the lighted path.
Self -no self -I am getting and feeling too zen or like I have said to my self Moon your OK ........................
Anyway compassion love fill your self with these and you can not go wrong but PP you already do this...................
As we all know the depth of pain we experience is the height of the joy we can experience (but I do not see N'S EXPERIENCING life this way)
I have done a lot of work and am having some good days.These days I deserve to give to myself .After my twin passed and then my mom (who was not a n)I grieved for ten years .I am on my road to peace now its been long.....................................
Love and Light
Moon
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Maybe if I didn't have to spend so much energy on being a certain way, then I might actually be doing the things that will be satisfying.
Learn to accept the result... not to anticipate the result. If you are always trying to match things (or yourself) up to certain ideas, you are sure to be trying to put the wrong pegs in the wrong holes. Turn it around... what DO you like about yourself???? Strengthen and project that person (those qualities).
Sick of hearing from me yet?
Love, Beth
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Learn to accept the result... not to anticipate the result. If you are always trying to match things (or yourself) up to certain ideas, you are sure to be trying to put the wrong pegs in the wrong holes. Turn it around... what DO you like about yourself???? Strengthen and project that person (those qualities).
I'm not sure I fully understand. My idea has been to "see" what I want to become and head in that direction--which does often lead to alot of banging into walls, but aren't we suppose to have goals??
Adrift
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The work I have to do is understand my own path may not be everyones .My way is to see and understand what ns do. What they do because they were hurt .If I stay stuck in anger toward them I can not get on with my life. But at the same time I do not stuff the feelings of anger, Man I went to shrinks all my life. I can not tell you how many pillows I have ko'd.Got to get the angries out,I read that on another web site.But freedom can be had.Goals are ONE DAY AT A TIME .TELL YOURSELF I AM WORTHY. I wish I had a magic pill and we all could take it and the recovery work would be done.It seems to me the 20th century should be known most of all as the century of recovery.
Love and Light
MoonLight
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I hope this isn't too old of a topic for people who are farther along than me.
No way, Pennyplant! This is a great topic, and I think you are very far along for thinking about it.
As it happens, I was crying to my therapist yesterday, because I don't feel like I have self at all. None. Not even a pseudo-self (though I doubt that's true). I have no idea what I want or what I like. I hate shopping for clothes, because I don't know what to buy. I don't know what to order in restaurants; I am usually too busy thinking about what my toddler might want to eat off my plate or what my husband might want a taste of.
OK, here's a ridiculous story about my quest for self. A few days ago at a restaurant, I decided to try and think what I really wanted to eat and order that. I choose spaghetti. There. I did it. It felt like a big step because i did it so intentionally. Then I discovered that the spaghetti was really really bad, watery, tasteless. My toddler made a huge mess with it and wouldn't eat it. I was crushed. I just knew that I made the wrong choice. Choosing what I wanted was the wrong decision. The universe did not want me to have good spaghetti, because I did not deserve it! Is that nutty thinking or what?!? My husband and I laughed about my thought processes, but deep down inside, part of me believes it. I feel like I don't have a self because I don't deserve it.
Anyway, I don't have much advice on getting rid of the bad/false stuff. But finding your true self? From my perspective, babysteps, I think. Try to consciously think, what do I really want here? What do I like or dislike. If you know that you like certain fashions, foods, types of weather, colors, pictures, animals, people who make you feel warm and fuzzy, then those likes and dislikes must be real, part of the real you. Recognizing those things must be real progress, right? Taking time to sort this stuff out might feel selfish (like for me, ordering what I want to eat feels selfish), but it's probably not. Remind yourself that you deserve it, and you deserve to realize your true self.
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I can tell you what experiences have led me to "feeling" worthy.Well this one happened when my twin passed suddenly and then I or what I called myself disappeared.I was reborn in the way that my twin and I thought of ourselves as one.Then I had to build a twin less twin into me.
Then a lot of good happy sanity with hubby and 2 beautiful Moon children. Then I had too untie the strange and painful knot of my family of origin .Its a hard job but some one has to do it.
I am no longer anyones victim but I am me the real me I am becoming the real me .I am comfortable with love I am not going over and yell at cruel family of origin,family members or n father.
But I get to be free and me .I am not all there yet but I can see the lighted path.
Anyway compassion love fill your self with these and you can not go wrong but PP you already do this...................
Hi Moon,
I never realized before what it must have been like when you had to become a twinless twin. It would be like more than half yourself was missing, behind some wall or curtain that you couldn't just move to the side or walk around. Such a difficult task.
Filling myself with compassion and love--what I can do and say here, I don't do or say so easily with myself. I am going to teach myself how to do this. It makes so much sense. It sounds healing. And the healing seems like it would make it possible for my best and real qualities to rise to the surface. I should be my own best friend.
In a way, untieing yourself from the Ns in your life also will allow the best and real qualities of yourself to rise to the surface. No more fear and pain from them to stifle the real you.
Thanks, (((Moon)))
Pennyplant
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Learn to accept the result... not to anticipate the result. If you are always trying to match things (or yourself) up to certain ideas, you are sure to be trying to put the wrong pegs in the wrong holes. Turn it around... what DO you like about yourself???? Strengthen and project that person (those qualities).
Sick of hearing from me yet?
Nope, not sick of hearing from you, Beth!!! This is good that you picked up on how goal-oriented I am. I think it is my way of over-compensating for possible disappointment, hating the unknown, comparing myself to others, wanting to be perfect. Trying to match up to certain ideas. Oh, I do that all the time. It is so stressful. I try to anticipate all possible scenarios. Which is impossible. And I'm always missing the moment. That control thing again. Maybe it comes from a childhood full of hazards--stressed out parents, neighborhood bullies. It became second nature to me.
Being motivated externally is part of this. I always have to have a reason to do things, and usually that reason is someone else expects something of me, or I believe they do. It will take me awhile to unlearn this habit.
Pennyplant
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OK, here's a ridiculous story about my quest for self. A few days ago at a restaurant, I decided to try and think what I really wanted to eat and order that. I choose spaghetti. There. I did it. It felt like a big step because i did it so intentionally. Then I discovered that the spaghetti was really really bad, watery, tasteless. My toddler made a huge mess with it and wouldn't eat it. I was crushed. I just knew that I made the wrong choice. Choosing what I wanted was the wrong decision. The universe did not want me to have good spaghetti, because I did not deserve it! Is that nutty thinking or what?!? My husband and I laughed about my thought processes, but deep down inside, part of me believes it. I feel like I don't have a self because I don't deserve it.
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Remind yourself that you deserve it, and you deserve to realize your true self.
Hi IamNewtoMe,
Oh, not so ridiculous to me!!! I understand this story completely because I play that particular tape in my head all the time! And now I'm learning, that is the wrong tape. It does not have to be that way anymore. Well, it never did have to be that way. But I can go forward with it from now on. It will be replaced by "beaming" love into myself. If I can care about other people, I can care about myself. I deserve it, too.
You know, though, I think that when you have young children, it is really hard to remember who yourself is. Children need so much of you. And from you. If you went into motherhood not being real firm with who you are (I'm kind of wishy washy myself) then it is really easy, and almost simpler to just let yourself fade into the background for those years. Does your therapist have any suggestions for how to spend some time just being you? So you don't forget?
The feeling selfish aspect--that is a big one for me. Because I am beginning to see that if I really just do what I want, well I will do some really SELFISH things. I could just go a little crazy in that direction. Maybe it is a matter of degree?
I made a decision at work in the last couple of days. Without getting too detailed here--where I work, there is a rule that if temporary help is hired then the part-timers(me and the lazy person just below me) have to get 40 hours per week. But I know for sure that if I didn't make an issue of it then the three of us would be getting about 25 hours or so. And then the senior people would be on me for NOT complaining about it.
I decided I wanted the hours because it means more pay and it is a rule that makes sense to me. Temporary help should not be taking work from permanent employees. So, I talked to co-workers about it first to see if it was still a rule. Then I spoke to the senior supervisor and she understood what had to happen here. Then I talked to the supervisor who makes the schedule. She also understood. I offered to do various kinds of work and also I do work in other offices. It should all add up by the end of each week.
After I did all this, I felt--selfish. For one thing, I'm not advocating for the other part-timer. She is on her own with that one. And it may mean less hours for the temp. Mostly though, I think it felt selfish because it felt unfamiliar. I'm used to being a welcome mat.
But I am happy that I did it in a professional way. I've seen other co-workers raising chaos and swearing up a storm to get what they want. I just kept telling people the same thing and made sure they knew I'm willing to work where needed in order to do this. And it was well-within policy. But if I had kept quiet, they wouldn't have bothered to find the hours because it is challenging. Time off is nice too. But I just wanted to take this opportunity to try and get something that I was entitled to. It feels less and less weird all the time.
The one supervisor kind of had to stare at the schedule awhile to find the extra hours. I told her, I just have to do this, it is my way of learning to stand up for myself. She said she understands, and I know she does because she has similar issues. It does feel good to be understood. If I do this more often maybe it will begin to feel less weird.
Pennyplant
P.S. Remember, IamNewtoMe, it was only one bad plate of spaghetti. The next one is sure to be saucy and cheesy and full of meatballs. Yummm!
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It seems to me the 20th century should be known most of all as the century of recovery.
Oh, I think you are so right about this. It seems like now we have the chance to be aware and break the age-old cycles.
PP
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PP You are so clear you express your ideas and feelings like clear blue waters on the shores of ancient crete .
Moon
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ideas and feelings like clear blue waters on the shores of ancient crete .
Thank you, Moon, for this beautiful image.
PP
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It seems to me the 20th century should be known most of all as the century of recovery.
Uh guys, I don't want to wake you up or anything but we're several years into the twenty first century. :D
mud
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Wow, so much good stuff here...
I totally relate to "spaghetti thinking." Everything is my fault and a punishment to me :P Yeah, the whole world revolves around ME ME ME! I'm trying to kill that track in my head too. It's hard for me to accept when things are good too. Somtimes I feel there's a disaster on the brink or people are just trying to be nice for some unfathomable reason.
Adrift... It's great to plan and say, "I want to do ...." However, if you expect that A will happen because you did B, you are bound to get disappointed more than not. So now I try to do A and sit back and wait to see what happens. If I get too caught up in trying to control (as PP said) the outcomes, I am alsways disappointed. And, to tell you the truth, when I don't plan the end, it is often better than what I expected.
Also, when I sweat stuff that I can't control I run into problems. Have you ever noticed that you can get all worked up about money, or some event that you dread, or having to deal with a difficult situation... and, when the time comes to pay the piper... something good intervenes or it turns out not to be as scary as you thought? That happens to me so much now that I have "let go of the reins." Ass much as I'd like to be in charge of everything, things work out a heck of a lot nicer when I am not the one in charge.
Thanks everyone for more lovely posts and ideas. I enjoy hearing from you all so much. You really brighten my days!
Love, Beth
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Hi Mud I know its the the 21st century .I was using poetic license even tho mine has expired .
Love Moon 8)
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You are so funny, moon!
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I was using poetic license even tho mine has expired .
It is a hassle waiting in line to renew.....
PP
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PP:
I told her, I just have to do this, it is my way of learning to stand up for myself. She said she understands, and I know she does because she has similar issues. It does feel good to be understood.
How wonderful, that you expressed this so clearly and were heard! :D
Mud:
Details, details...
Beth:
I couldn't have agreed with you before today, but after all the help with intention and an unexpected reprieve from what I fear, I am starting to! Thanks for this:
Have you ever noticed that you can get all worked up about money, or some event that you dread, or having to deal with a difficult situation... and, when the time comes to pay the piper... something good intervenes or it turns out not to be as scary as you thought?
Hops
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Pennyplant,
Standing up for yourself at work?! That's great! As you said, it does make sense to talk about selfishmess in terms of degree. Maybe it is a healthy kind of "selfish" to stand up for what you are entitled to and play nice, but ask for what you deserve (as opposed to selfishly manipulating, going behind people's backs, yelling, etc.). Sounds like you exercised a totally healthy amount of "selfishness". I am inspired by you!
And regarding, kids, yes, it is super hard to put my needs first sometimes. With adults you can say, well they're on their own on this one, but you can't really do that with kids. Thanks for asking about my strategies for spending time with myself - reminds me that I need to do that (oops! fading into the background again!). I am supposed to be taking a couple hours to myself now and then (husband or babysitter takes the baby), so I can think about and do stuff that I like to do. Whatever that is....!? Maybe I'll just try another restaurant's spaghetti....
thanks again for sharing your experiences. I am learning a lot here.
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I totally relate to "spaghetti thinking." Everything is my fault and a punishment to me :P Yeah, the whole world revolves around ME ME ME! I'm trying to kill that track in my head too. It's hard for me to accept when things are good too. Somtimes I feel there's a disaster on the brink or people are just trying to be nice for some unfathomable reason.
Thanks for this, Beth! You expressed a lot of what I was thinking, but couldn't find the words for myself.