Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on June 26, 2006, 12:11:51 AM
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Thought I'd share this...
http://www.slate.com/id/2144123/?nav=tap3
Maybe this is partly why it can be such a struggle at times to measure what we're dealing with...?
Hops
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Hops , This article is very interesting .
All the labels ,the behaviors ,the duel disorders I do not believe on this board we should be diagnosing one another or any kind of negative labeling .
I see your point here maybe we all need shamans really good ones . :D
Moon
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Thanks for this (((((((Hoppy))))))))
I found it really interesting. With so many disorders, it must be very hard to diagnose what it really is. But then I suppose it's the same with doctors and misdiagnosing. One of the worst ones was a friend of a friend recently, who went to the doctors with a swollen tummy. She was diagnosed with Irritable bowel syndrome, and five months later she was at the hospital again, in labour. Both her and her boyfriend were very shocked, but she does have a beautiful gorgeous healthy baby, who was a healthy weight. The impact of the doctors misdiagnosis was huge though, the shock for themselves and family and friends. She rented a house with my friend, so had to find alternative accommodation and move in with her boyfriend. For my friend, she lost the income having her renting with her, so is struggling financially. All these things could have been prevented.
H&H xx
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Interesting article.. if psychiatrists get it wrong, I wonder about those that give diagnosis's that aren't psychiatrists.. like counselors or social workers .... food for thought..
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I'll tell you a little secret about psychiatrists.
They're rarely if ever taught any real psychology. If anything, they are often taught to look down upon it...
There is, for some obscure reason [obscure to me - historically it might date back all the way to the rift between Freud and Jung] a tendency on the part of many if not most schools of psychiatry not to train their students beyond initial diagnosis and treatment. They are rarely taught how to actually work with a client over the long term. This they learn, if they learn it at all, during their residency, and quite often they learn it as much from their own patients as from their attendings...
Try this on for perspective. Consider the possibility that the LCSWs, the Psy.D.s, the pastoral counselors, etc. are the ones who actually have the greatest amount of relevant training in the areas they most need to draw on, and the psychiatrists have the least; their specialty is an 'add-on' late in med school or starting with internship, and has little or no relevance to much if not most of what they studied prior to taking the MD.
The price tag relates only to the letters behind the name, not to anything the letters actually represent. Except for the ability to prescribe. And if you've followed developments in that area, you know that there's a movement in many places to allow psychologists and LCSWs with additional training to write scrips; and you know just how bitterly the psychiatric establishment is opposing this.
This does not mean there aren't phenomenally good psychiatrists - of course there are. But they're phenomenally good, in my professional experience, despite their training; not because of it. The good ones are the ones who 'get it' in terms of the overwhelming importance of psychology, who understand that the mind is really not a machine, that the soul is not a chemical, that the pills and the sessions provide stability and a framework, but that the healing is done through love.
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Hi Stormy… I read somewhere that there are chemical differences in the brains of people who have PD’s. Is this true? If so, can those differences be changed if the person is working toward change, or is that part damaged for good.
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It's true, and there are some preliminary studies that suggest they can... but it takes a lot of time, a lot of support, and a lot of attention. There was a recent article in the Washington Post - maybe not so recent, about the time the film "A Beautiful Mind" was released - that described the way schizophrenics in India can often achieve total remission of their illness - due to a combination of allopathic medicine [i.e. western drugs] and extensive familial and professional support [family and therapists working together]. For instance, the family is welcomed into the therapeutic relationship. There is a presumed right of family members to inform the doc if they see side effects, etc. and the docs take this information seriously. It's much more holistic, and people not only get better, but they quite often stay better.
I was reading a couple months ago about PTSD - the 'cortisol bath' that stress causes can actually rewire our brains. And there is now some evidence that this 'rewiring' can also be reversed... but a combination of meds and social support seems to work better than meds alone or support alone...
And MedScape has been posting links to studies that suggest similar progress may be possible for people with borderline personality disorder. Yes, people with that. Small studies, long duration of treatment, but encouraging.
Just for funsies, let me share my own little secret. Several months back, I decided to look into the biochemistry of a 'benign' blood disorder I was born with, that was diagnosed when I was 22 - so almost 30 years ago. I was told then that it was benign, nothing could be done about it, but that I couldn't donate blood because of it. [This seemed a little contradictory to me: if benign, why blood donation not OK? But I digress.] I hadn't thought about it for years.
Well... the Human Genome Project had been plugging merrily along, and so had a bunch of researchers in Europe and Japan. And guess what? That 'benign' condition of mine is an enzyme deficiency - genetic - comes in several varieties with varying degrees of severity - and has major effects on the metabolism of a whole variety of drugs, so much so that one particular cancer treatment carries a specific warning NOT to give it to people with my condition! Because it can kill us. And so can - of all things - acetaminophen (Tylenol), if we take too much of it; and too much, for us, is a lot less than too much for most other folks.
Imagine my surprise to discover that a great deal of my listlessness, the 'just-enough-energy-for-a-full-time-job-but-not-enough-for-a-life-on-top-of-that', my food preferences [massive cravings for broccoli, cauliflower, onions, garlic, brussels sprouts, cabbage, eggs, meat], my drug sensitivities [I usually need about half the recommended dose of most meds, and I refuse to take acetaminophen, it always makes me feel rotten] - even my lifelong problem with migraine headaches - are apparently directly related to this 'benign' condition - and that, in my case, something as simple as drinking green tea, taking a few simple supplements, and consuming more of the foods I crave [broccoli, cabbage] can stimulate my liver to make more of the enzyme I need!
It was like someone turned on a light in a dim room. I'm still Stormchild, but I'm Stormchild energized. I've emerged from years of mild dysthymia and not so mild periodic depressions, I've become much more able to integrate and apply the insights I've attained. Reality doesn't look much different to me, I was always perfectly lucid and there were real and solid reasons for me to be less than thrilled with life - but it no longer overwhelms me. I can stand up and spit in its eye now, if I have to, but even better, I can stand up, flip it off, and move to a better seat.
This is biochemistry at its best - lived! Breathed! Understood and deeply used to heal... and my T, who is a clinical psychologist but with a lot of biochem in his background too, has been jumping up and down and cheering for me. While we continue to work on extricating my heart from the old patterns of learned pain, we rejoice that I may now have the energy I need to not only escape those patterns, but create new and better ones in their place.
Sorry, dear MS - I'm passionate about these things. I hope it comes across as the best kind of passion, the healing, strengthening kind. The answer to your question is yes, yes, yes they can, and tomorrow they may be able to even more, and the day after that --
we move, we dwell, in the midst of miracles.
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I'm passionate about these things. I hope it comes across as the best kind of passion, the healing, strengthening kind.
It does Stormy... I've read your post 5 times. So encouraging....
it no longer overwhelms me. I can stand up and spit in its eye now, if I have to, but even better, I can stand up, flip it off, and move to a better seat.
You said green tea and supplements... this is very helpful Storm, I'm tired alot and down more than I care to admit. What supplements?
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Hi Hops:
Great info, thanks for posting. The "algorithm" is promising eh? And the genetic stuff? Wow! Hopefully there will be more scientific tools available to prevent or at least decrease the incidence of misdiagnoses. Nothing like having a label slapped on a person that doesn't fit. And really, really, really tough to shed, once it's written on paper. That is not only unfair but could be really dangerous to their health (re medicating inappropriately, etc).
Warning - while you were reading 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Holey Moley! :shock: I better go read.
:D Sela
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Hiya Stormy:
That's truly amazing!! How did you ever discover all of the holistic stuff (was it just something you became interested in or did something/someone lead you to investigate?).
I've always thought that our medical field is a bit .....lax.....by it's (up until recently and hopefully this is changing)....complete disreagard for the wealth of information other cultures have (eg. the Chinese have been using herbs and substances for well over 3000 years and our system totally ignors that, as it does so much so many other cultures have in aquired knowledge of plants etc to treat illness or maintain health).
It's such a shame and a waste. Makes me wonder if there are real cures out there being dismissed.
Sela
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Hi Sela
I was fascinated by the chemistry of medicine and fascinated by biochemistry, and then about 20 years ago I got pneumonia... over and over... and a very sweet and hairy guy who played a wicked bass guitar showed up on my doorstep with a bottle of echinacea and told me that if I took it, along with my erythromycin, I'd get better and stay better, and if I didn't get better, he'd clean my bathroom - more than once. To my standards of cleanliness, no less!
You know how much guys like to clean bathrooms, right? This was a serious bet!
Anyway, he won, I got better, and we ended up nuts about each other... for a while. Sadly, we parted ways long ago, when I moved overseas, but he opened my mind and changed my life. And in Europe there is much more acceptance of herbal and other alternative medicines, so it was like dying and going to heaven. I've had a strong interest in it ever since, but never had the chance to train, it's just a passionate interest.
But you should see my kitchen... and my library... and my filing cabinet... and my plans for if I ever get to take early retirement!!!!!!!
Rev 22:2: In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
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And MS.... :oops: thanks! :oops:
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Cool, VERY cool.
In Germany, the "Commission E Monographs" on herbal supplements summarize the best research available on herbs. The tricky thing about taking herbs prescribed (or provided) by anyone who claims to be "an herbalist" or "an expert" is that there is no standardization or inspection of ingredients in most brands. Herbs from dicey companies have been found to contain ranges from none of the listed ingredient to a combination of things including toxins of various sorts (even mercury). So do learn about alternative medicines, but proceed with care as to suppliers, brands, etc.
(I did some research and writing for www.wholehealthmd.com and for the Duke Center for Integrative Medicine on alternative remedies. They were quite conservative about what sources to trust, and one they recommended was www.naturalstandard.com, as well as the Commission E Monographs).
Prevention Magazine also does a pretty good job of vetting what they publish about alternative remedies, as does Dr. Andrew Weil.
I heard that fish oil supplements taken 3x/day serve as a natural antidepressant, but the big bottle I got at a warehouse club made me suspicious...I think they went rancid and made me ill. And some gingko biloba I bought went off-color. So I've decided for stable things like calcium citronate and Vit. C, I can buy large quantities, but for anything less processed...I'd better buy small quantities from a well-known mfr.
I'm still determined to do the fish oil thing, those Omega 3s are antiinflammatory magic!
Sorry, ranting, but it's a fascinating subject to me too.
Live long and prosper! :)
Hops
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This simplifies things if you're starting with the basics about supplements. If the expense is a concern you can take the information from the recommendations for you, and buy your own. (For me, it comes out Omega 3s for everything!)
http://www.drweilvitaminadvisor.com
Hops
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Hi again Storm:
Wow again! What a fine hairy fella he was! Sorry it didn't work out. :(
So now I'm wondering if you make your own "potions"?
I did once. A person I knew had a "cold" that lasted for eons and I was deep into reading about all kinds of "natural" healing stuff so I gave him a list of some "spices" I thought he might have in his kitchen and told him to mix up a batch with hot water and honk it back and then jump into a bed loaded with mega blankets.
He said it tasted sooo bad and made him sweat (or all the blankets did) so profusely and he woke up the next day....feeling almost...."cured". :shock:
I think it probably didn't work as miraculously fast as all that but the idea of having to consume my "potion" nightly until feeling better may have speeded up the process a bit eh? ( :mrgreen:). Plus, there were useful ingredients in there that were supposed to have a thermogenic and synergetic effect....so who knows?
I'm a real echinacea fan too. I find it works well if I start taking it soon enough.
That green tea thing is fascinating. If you feel like saying, what enzyme is it and what supps do you take?
Especially interesting in relation to migranes. Does the tea help with these, do you think?
For me meds effect me really weird but opposite to what you describe in that often ..there is no effect and I need a really large dose). It's gotta be metabolism eh? I do avoid prescrip meds, to be honest, mostly 'cause I think that's gotta be tough on my liver....those big doses.
Once, when I was suffering big time from trauma, I took clonazepam and thought I was gonna die. My whole body felt on fire and I didn't sleep a wink all night. It was worse than any "street" drug I've ever done. Truly a horrible experience. And I kinda stopped my whole regime back then... and I need to get back on it. I felt so much better when I took my vitamins and supplements. Talking about this is helping me to think about that. Thanks.
Hiya Hops:
Thanks for the links. I'm gonna read there. It can be tricky eh? I have a rule I follow personally. I read and read about the particular substance and really seek out the possible side effects. If there are any related to heart/blood pressure or kidney....or other serious sounding possibilities.....I won't consume it. Needless to say there are few that are "safe" in my book. And I can never tell which source to "trust" as pure and natural. Reading labels thoroughly is helpful and mags like the one you mentioned too. Thanks Hops.
Sela
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Hi Hops
I went a bit nuts about this article yesterday and decided not to post this! Then I read:
Storm you said:
I'll tell you a little secret about psychiatrists.
They're rarely if ever taught any real psychology. If anything, they are often taught to look down upon it...
Absolutely true and I have living proof living next door to me, qualified last year. I’ve been pretty horrified at some of things I’ve heard. Too true about looking down on psychology and therapy and anything to with 'talking'.....
The good ones are the ones who 'get it' in terms of the overwhelming importance of psychology, who understand that the mind is really not a machine, that the soul is not a chemical, that the pills and the sessions provide stability and a framework, but that the healing is done through love.
Yes, and I guess it takes the good ones a heck of a long time to undo some of their (10 years) medical training. I’d say that it seems that healing, or self-knowledge and self-acceptance, comes through having someone accept you without trying to change you to their agenda, to what society labels as ‘healthy’. So many people think that they are ‘the problem’ and how do you ever feel any different if you’re convinced that you’re the one whose faulty, who society deems sick?
I have a cousin who doesn’t fit in. I don’t know his ‘diagnosis’ but I was told decades ago that he was autistic (having met him in the last few years, I’d question that). Now he appears to suffer delusions and voices. What’s he being treated with? ECT for goodness sake. Now I know more about his family background, it’s clear that the family, even now, contribute a lot to how he sees himself. He is the designated ‘problem’ etc etc. This makes me angry for many reasons. One reason, the lack of resources, the family denial, the bloody self-absorption of his parents, and also – my total impotence to do anything to help. Top that off with the fact that anything I might do (considering I’m estranged from the family) would be acting out my stuff, trying to help him to help myself. And would be putting me square in the middle of some totally unhealthy family dynamics involving my mother. So it’s a non-starter. But it makes me angry and I wanted to talk about it. So thanks for the space.
Given that’s me, this is how I responded to the article Hops!
There are, for example, many genes implicated in schizophrenia, and a genetic predisposition does not guarantee illness. (If one identical twin gets schizophrenia, there is a 50 percent chance the other one will.) Even a brain scan isn't clear-cut. For example, many healthy family members of schizophrenics have been found to have subtle schizophrenic symptoms.
Okay: There are, for example, many genes implicated in schizophrenia, and a genetic predisposition does not guarantee illness.
problem: There may be many genes implicated, but none have been found to be the cause. There may not be a “genetic predisposition”. “Many genes implicated” does not prove that is genetic. logic.
(If one identical twin gets schizophrenia, there is a 50 percent chance the other one will.)
Identical twins have identical genes. If it is genetic, why aren’t both twins affected? This is presumably inferred from twin studies. It is simply wrong to say that “there is a 50 percent chance the other one will”. It is simply the case from studies that where one twin is schizophrenic, the other twin may or may not be. This doesn’t equate to a % likelihood.
“gets schizophrenia” implies that schizophrenia is an illness you can contract. A more precise wording might be “becomes schizophrenic”. It isn’t like a virus!
“For example, many healthy family members of schizophrenics have been found to have subtle schizophrenic symptoms.”
If schizophrenia is caused by environment as well as, or in place of, genes, then it might not be surprising that the other family members show signs too!
If study and treatment of mental ‘illness’ remains divided between the different professions – psychologists, psychiatrists (and neuroscientists?) – I don’t think we’ll get very far. I don’t think it’s all biological and chemical; I don’t think it’s all environmental. It’s a balance…..yes the holistic approach makes sense...(i went off on one)
Chemicals and medicines: I don’t take anything these days except a full multi-vitamin. Yesterday I heard about the perimenopause - stuff that can affect you before menopause (I had no idea about this). Maybe this explains my concentration lapses and sometimes H telling me that I haven’t heard, or don’t remember things. Omega 3s I think. I don’t think of myself as getting older but I guess I have to admit it’s happening. Aging sucks!
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Hi all, quick jot, have to go shower & get to work, we had a power outage here yesterday and I had to heat water on a camp stove to bathe so I'm reeeeealllly looking forward to a proper sluicing off today...
I'm being kind of obscure about the condition for a reason. Where I work, there are quite a few MDs floating around in the general area, fairly easy to encounter and talk to. When I began looking into my situation, I first asked several of them what they knew about it. Every one of them blew it off as benign, trivial, no big deal, who knows what causes it and why should they care? [They even did this when I told them it was a condition I actually had been diagnosed with.]
So, I took that info and went online and found huge amounts of information on the biochemistry and the molecular biology and the physiological effects and the consequences of this supposedly trivial benign condition.
What shocked me most was the key significance of the enzyme in so many detoxification processes, and the total ignorance of these physicians as to the potential importance of that...
Anyway, my position on this is clearly one that does not match the position of the majority of conventional medics, still, at least in this country, and since I'm not an MD I'm not exactly in a position of strength to refute them. So I'm taking one at a time, giving articles and summaries to this person and that, trying to put a little wedge into some closed minds where it might do some good.
I'll be happy to talk about the herbs a bit more but I'll put that on another thread so it doesn't sidetrack here.
Hops, how cool! I was in Switzerland, which is where Vogel is located, whose product line is very good. I love Commission E. Have you read the British Herbal Pharmacopoeia? I have an online sub to ConsumerLab and consider them pretty reliable, and I go for the brands they have tested and validated. Some of that info is available upfront for free at times on their home page.
Portia, thank you... I know what I know about psych docs because I worked in proximity to a number of them for a long time... there were one or two who clearly were good at it, and were honest with me about what the training does and doesn't entail... and the hostility to psychology comes off most of them like steam off a lathered horse! But it didn't come off these two. They actually read Jung...
I am so sorry about your cousin. God, the things that should be criminal and aren't - like wasting a person's entire life!!! so you can keep them handy for scapegoating - :x :x :x :x :x -- .
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Thanks Storm. He’s only in his 30s and it does make me mad, his position and how it could be changed with access to information, a different environment….these are folks who for generations have not left their home town and ‘don’t see the point’ in having a computer etc. Almost intransigent ignorance. I better drop this one now before I get hot under the collar!
Love the way you’re educating the medical community. Someone’s gotta do it! And heck, no one doctor can know everything; but they can be open to new information right? Right. 8)
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This (hopefully) has little to do w/psychiatry and perhaps more to do with stress, but I really do have short-term memory problems. I've always laughed it off as having been absentminded since childhood (quite true), but there was an article on CNNHealth yesterday about a study that suggests that persistent short-term memory lapses are "probably Alzheimers."
BUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMER!
hOPS
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Hops I'm just popping back and can't resist your post...hey:
Let's book into the same nursing home for the future and we can regale each other with stories from our childhoods etc and we'll probably understand each other! That might be cool.
Not so much 'women on the verge of a nervous breakdown' as 'women happily doolally together' 8)
Bah short-term memory loss most likely due to the stresses and strains of a stressful and straining life. Now what was I going to do next.....?
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Thanks, P!
Wot's doolally? Do I want to know? :shock:
But if I'm rocking on a porch with you and I can pinch the male nurses while we lallydoo...you're on!
You're right, I fondly hope. I do think stress can do it.
I worked a cool deal this week. Need a new mattress to ease my back. Was just fantasizing about a nice organic fancy kind I'd seen advertised by a local company...wrote the owner offering my editing for his web site (which was kinda dull) in barter for a trade or discount, and we worked it out! Fancy latex mattress at 75% off.
Barter rocks! So that's perked me up (as is taking this week off work...I actually love vacations at home).
I'm terribly sorry about your cousin, Portia. :(
And Storm...I love the way you research and think through the medical assumptions, educating as you go. Bravo!
Hops
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Back again.
Sela, I do 'on the spot' compounding for my animals, and I've done a bit of the same for myself - formulating antibiotics or antihistamines into topical solutions or pastes when there's no topical on the market and so forth - but never for anyone else, and never for more than one dose at a time - there are laws about this stuff, and I try to obey them even when they seem a bit arbitrary.
Re omega-3s, they'll make you bleed. Gotta watch that. Stop taking them a week before surgery or dental work - at least. So does garlic.
You can keep fish oil much longer if you put it in the fridge... in fact, I keep my ginseng, fish oil, carnitine, cranberry, goldenseal, pure vitamin E oil, and melatonin all in the fridge. Ginseng definitely goes off, and boy does it cause headaches then - not at all a good sign.
Hops that is so nifty about the bed - web page barter deal. And BTW, that business about short term mem loss being Alzheimer's is piffle... in 2000, I was giving end of life care to three individuals I deeply loved, and I had little or no help of any useful kind [lots of kibitzers* and tourists**, but no actual help to speak of]. I was so totally out of it that, six months later, I was going through some reference files at work and found an amazingly detailed and accurate account of a discussion that took place on a key project. Just fantastic, it answered all of my questions about the issues, why certain decisions were made, who was involved, and what we intended to do next.
Only one problem. I had written it. And I not only had no recollection of writing it, I had no recollection at all of being present during the discussion. Nada. Nichts. None whatsoever.
Cortisol, my dear. I lost, conservatively, somewhere between 18 months and two years. Trauma. Exhaustion. Events that occured in that time period I constantly misremember as happening two years earlier, or two years later. It's a lacuna in my life, and it will probably stay that way.
But clearly, I got the job done, and I got my dear ones cared for and looked after them as they went Home.
Alzheimer's Schmalzheimers. Some of these theoretical types ought to come down here and try living real life for a change...
*kibitzers: people who tell you how to manage in dire situations, usually with great self-righteousness, but won't offer to do anything themselves to help out.
**tourists: worse than kibitzers: people who come by ostensibly to help out, bring and do nothing to help, and expect to be catered to and waited on while you're preoccupied with turning and bathing and feeding and changing your loved one. Usually they become offended when you don't stop bathing and feeding and changing your loved one in order to make them cups of coffee, serve them snacks, etc.
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Hi All,
Going back to the original article... and misdiagnosing... If someone comes to you and asks for help (I'm assuming that's what they were pretending to do) because they are hearing voices, is it a bad thing to keep them in a ward for a bit longer while trying to figure out what's wrong????? Also, like they said, there isn't a chemical test that can tell for sure what is the problem in a psychological situation. I don't know... this test has way too many uncontrollable conditions to be in any way accurate. It just sounds like a bunch of finger-pointing, especially with the counter-test.
It's funny, a freind of mine has a teenage son who was just diagnosed with Asperger's. He is 15 or 16 and she says she has known there was something different about him since he was a baby. In all that time, they were unable to figure it out. That amazes me, because he acts much like an autistic (never looks you in the face, very precise about times, words you have said, etc). Asperger's is a cousin of autism, and he fits the profile so neatly with the exception of the lack of empathy. He is very nurturing and loves children and animals. How did it take that long to figure it out when it seems so obvious?
I don't know... my rusty two cents.
Beth
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Thanks, Storm. All of that is very supportive and helpful.
And ironic timing...just came home to find Mom had put her night-time pill container in the fridge (by accident). Oh boy. I believe her dementia is kicking in more and more....same question 3 times in an hour today.
One day at a time.
Hi Beth,
Re. your young friend and the non-diagnosticians. Sometimes I think some doctors can't see the forest for the solar system. Or something like that! He sounds like a sweet boy...I know a likely-Aspergers girl who is likewise very affectionate. And the Down's Syndrome folks I've known are SO endearing. Love on legs.
Hops
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So many people with Downs are so sweet and caring. They also seem very happy a lot of the time. I have always enjoyed knowing them.
As for forgetting things... I can never walk into a room and remember why I entered int he first place. I'd be awfully young to have Alzheimer's, but I sure do feel like it sometimes :).
Ha ha forest for the solar system... too witty!
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Hi all:
Thanks for your reply Storm. Ya. I don't usually "prescribe" stuff for anyone either but this guy was insistent and desperate. The mix was more like something one might throw in when they bake up a batch of goodies except they would be yuckies. But you're right.....one must know what one is mixing, that's a given.
Too bad the docs weren't interested in your discoveries. The wrong docs, I think. Some people are very open to learning from those with a passion for learning and finding info but maybe do not have medical degrees. I guess it just depends. I was first sent to the health food store by a medical doctor, so there ya go. I was quite surprised myself when he suggested I go and very curious after that (also Leary and careful).
Post about any of this on the "anything" thread (re herbs 'n stuff) if you feel like it. I'm certainly interested and I bet others might be too.
Hoppy!! Pinching male nurses!! At that age!! :shock: :shock:
What fun!!! :D :D
By the time I get there (nursing home) I hope I'm completely gone and sure I'm the queen of some place. I want to order people around and demand fools to entertain me and serfs to bring me wine and cheese. Lot's of cheese! And feed me grapes (I don't care if their pureed!)! Or be one of those little ladies who keep taking their clothes off and running up and down the halls naked and giggling the whole time!! Or play my invisible trombone for hours on end, stopping only to sing a sweet interlude. In total bliss!! And very unaware of reality. If I must go.
P: Just thinking about ECT as "treatment" makes me cringe. It seems more like punishment and something that one would not impose on anyone other than a mad dog. (((((((((((P's Cousin)))))))))))) Poor guy. :(
Beth: How did it take that long to figure it out when it seems so obvious?
Sometimes ya just gotta wonder eh? So much depends on who one happens to seek help from. And how persistent one is, I guess. It's upsetting that it has to be like that. I guess it's tough to never make mistakes but it's different when it's your child someone is making a mistake about (or your friend's).
Sela
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Hi Sela,
Definitely, you're on for nekkid hallway races in the nursing home. (But we'll skip the place with ECT.) I'm going to practice my harmonica so we can do duets. I say you deserve a REAL trombone!
TT:
Thanks for the Sodoku suggestion...Mom even asked me about that lately. I think I'll get her a book of it. Me, I'd rather do crosswords, I'm totally math & digit-phobic. :P
Hops