Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: WRITE on July 28, 2006, 01:55:57 AM
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this was something which came to my attention this week, in a book someone gave me called 'Are You the One for Me? Knowing who's right, avoiding who's wrong' by Barbara De Angelis.
She suggests making a comprehensive list of qualities you desire in a serious long-term partner.
So I did.
And the first thing that jumped out at me: there are a couple of issues on the list I wouldn't want in a partner I need to address myself!
So I started on that.
She said the list can be a powerful way of attracting people you want into your life, I thought it meant because you will be more selective and look for those attributes closer, but I can see more and more how addressing your own issues means deeper connections with other people who've worked through theirs.
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I can see more and more how addressing your own issues means deeper connections with other people who've worked through theirs.
Hi Write
Wow, this is so impressive.... I think this too, it goes with "like attracts like", healthy attracts healthy and "love yourself before anyone else can love you". I do think the latter sounds like an N statement, but I guess it's not as N's are just trying to inflate themselves and don't love themselves, so how can anyone else love them.
Take care
H&H xx
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Write,
I didn't read that book, but I definitely made that list prior to seriously entering the dating world again. In addition to making that list, you need to determine the qualities which are desirable, but not mandatory, and those which are absolute deal-breakers. And then, do not compromise. If that deal-breaker becomes evident--walk away immediately and don't look back. When I was younger and dating, I forgave and looked past so many behaviors that should have ended the relationship, but I was too desperate and clingy to be willing to do that.
And your right that by making that list, you determine those qualities in yourself which need work. During therapy, I learned a lot about myself that contributed to the demise of my marriage and what I would need to do differently in the future. As I have applied those changes in my new relationship, I have found that it has really worked and consequently we have virtually no conflict and are almost always completely happy together.
H&H,
You're correct that it all has to do with healthy attracts healthy and loving yourself before trying to love someone else. N's don't love themselves at all--they actually loath themselves, but they hide that loathing under a cloak of self-importance, entitlement and all the other negative behaviors.
Brigid
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so are you going to share your list, are you are you?
:)
(don't say yes if you don't want to - practice your boundaries if necessary)
pb
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:)
I just wrote this randomly ( in Chuck E Cheese if you must know! )
attracted to each other
takes care of self
clean(!)
motivated
creative
laughs a lot/playful
happy with self
no addictions
no abusive behaviours
appropriate other relationships
not a 'player'
conxixtent
honest/ has personal integrity
kind
strong faith or has examined faith/ accepts mine
has hobbies
can manage their life: work
finances
domestic arrangements
extended family relationships
unafraid of comitment and responsibility
responsible about sexual health
good communication: can talk and listen
prepared to address problems or important issues
unafraid of developing intimacy
nature-lover
musical
well-read
interesting
can respond to my little relationship desires: to be held
develop good sex together
sing and play and write togetehr
loves the dog!
affectionate
can set boundaries with my high energy & take care of himself & own needs within the relationship.
***
Did I miss any big issues? ( y'all know my 'blind spot' tendencies! )
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Gentle (although I think that's implied in many of the other qualifications) and Considerate (thoughtful) ?
Great list, Write! Are ya gonna draw a sketch of what Mr Wonderful might look like? :)
Love,
Hope
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Because I was only willing to date men who had been married and had children--as I needed for him to understand the importance of my children in my life and the time that takes (even though they were older)--the number one thing on my list was that he had a good relationship with his children. My b/f has four (also young adult) children who love and adore him. All of our children are happy about our relationship, so I can comfortably move forward knowing that if we become a blended family, we have started out on the right foot.
Don't overlook the way he treats those who serve him--waitresses, etc., as this is a very good indicator of whether he is hiding anger under a charming facade.
I would agree with the rest of your list and maybe add stablility. Since I am a bit older than you, the considerations of looming retirement, how you want to spend those years, has he made provisions for being able to live comfortably in the future, etc., also played into it for me. Kindness and consideration (going both ways, of course) can go a long way in forgiving the annoying little habits he may have, as well.
Hope--I just described my b/f as gentle to someone recently (although he is very much a GUY). It is a wonderful attribute.
Best of luck in finding your perfect (or only slightly flawed :shock:) man, Write.
Brigid
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Brigid,
Kindness and consideration (going both ways, of course) can go a long way in forgiving the annoying little habits he may have, as well.
Annoying little habits he may have?? hehe :wink: Oh, you'd better believe he'll have some annoying ways.... and humor has been one of the best salves for those between my husband and me. Like when he stands in front of the open refrigerator, waiting for something to leap out into his hands.... I once balanced a bag of bbq'd chicken wings, just so, so that they'd fall out when he opened the door. He laughed so hard... got the point and peruses the contents much more quickly now.
Guess I'd better ask him what annoying habits of mine annoy him now. We've been married for 2 years :)
He is very gentle tho, too. I have to tell ya... yesterday, I had just finished posting some examples of ambient/ gaslighting behavior and went up into the kitchen to greet him following his shower. I announced, well... your ribs are about done... and he said, oh good... I was expecting pork chops. :o My head spun a 360 as I said, but you asked for ribs!!! heh He was a bit taken aback by my ferocious response, needless to say. I told him about some of the tricks N used to play along those lines and he said, "But you know I'm not like that." Yes, I do know. Thank God!
Love,
Hope
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Hope,
Yeah, I noticed that I only ascribed annoying habits to him--but in all my perfection, I can't imagine what I would do to annoy him :shock: :wink:.
Like when he stands in front of the open refrigerator, waiting for something to leap out into his hands....
I had to laugh at this--guilty as charged. I've been known to do that, too, but haven't been called on it yet. If only the food in there would do a dance in the dark and come up with a fabulous preparation and jump into my hungry, waiting arms when I opened the door, life could be so wonderful.
You are so right, that a good sense of humor goes a very long way in preventing those silly arguments from popping up. It's very hard to be angry when you're laughing--I guess impossible would be a better word.
Cheers,
Brigid
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:D :D
I don't have the whole list yet, but I know the top five for Prince Sincere (I tossed Charming, he was Alarming):
honest
kind
intelligent
funny
behaves in a very undignified manner with dogs and small children
Siggghhhh, dreaming of him already...
Hops
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Thanks everyone.
It just struck me driving home, I missed out my most important relationship quality, the one which I define my best relationships with:
reciprocal.
The guy I've been seeing is very lovely but- he isn't reciprocal so far. He may just be backing off because I told him I need space to get divorced, or maybe it's too early to tell, but there isn't the ebb and flow of writing between us which typifies my other close relationships.
Right now that's good- because there's a tendency to lean on someone at this time and I certainly don't want to do that.
But down the road, it would be a problem.
And it's sort-of shutting me off a little now, I am thinking- it's his turn to write/ call...and he isn't. So neither am I.
It's strange because when we're together we can talk and laugh easily the whole night, the hours just fly and it feels really natural.
Oh well, there's a lesson in it all somewhere, even if I can't see it yet!
***
Last night I met someone else, in a group, a guy I've also known for a while, he was great fun to be with too, we had such a pleasant evening, we went off and talked for a couple of hours after the movie.
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Today I've been for Indian food and to pick up new posters and furniture. I am going to clean the house and stay home tonight.
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ps couldn't find a sketch but what about
http://www.meredi.com/randpics/mr_right.jpg
:)
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Oh, Write... he is simply magnificent!! :)
Say, just thinking about guy #1, it might not hurt to redefine the terms of the "space" you requested? His lack of reciprocation in writing/calling may be due to his attempt to honor that request. If you'd like to limit communication just for now to writing, that seems a reasonable request. Can sure learn alot about someone who's a "pen pal" and it might be fun. Just a thought.
Love,
Hope
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I really am not sure I know what's going on, I did ask him last Sunday to write to me more, he said I will and smiled, but hasn't so I guess he isn't going to right now.
Maybe I am still too insecure to do this is it/ isn't it thing with someone I really like? The guy I hung out with Friday made it clear he liked me but it's different because I didn't put any emotional investment in there already, & we're corresponding nicely back and forth!
I'm doing lunch with another friend today after church, he and I get on really well because it's not a romance at all!
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Hi Write,
Sounds really healthy to me to be enjoying the company of different males now.
Much better than going straight to in-loveness.
RE-CI-PRO-CI-TY.
I think you're onto it. If he's not responding at equal or greater interest level, time for you to back waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off and be LESS interested, not asking for MORE attention.
You absolutely do not need to be in that vulnerable, hope-filled position, I think.
Protect yourself. Don't take it personally if he's not charging into something intense and committed...but DO TAKE MENTAL NOTES. (This is all from chewing, swallowing and digesting so many books about this...not from having done it right!)
--HE doesn't email? YOU don't email. Let a week go by, or more...just be BUSY BUSY BUSY.
--HE doesn't call? YOU don't call. etc etc
--HE doesn't make you a priority? YOU don't make him a priority. BUSY BUSY BUSY.
I really like it that you're open to spending time and getting to know several people in a light and present, be in this day and enjoy it, kind of way. Keep that up, dear.
You're hungry for a reciprocal joyful relationship after so long tending your Ex. Totally understandable.
Just hope you won't hop from the frying pan into the fire.
Sloooooooooooooooooooooooooowly.
love,
Hops
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Hi Write,
The is it/ isn't it thing is definitely a pain in the neck... (although I think the image of you plucking daisy petals is a charming one :D)
IF the emotional investment could be set aside for now (safely tucked under the mattress or in the piggybank) and
If you really do like this guy (guy #1) and
If you are disappointed that he hasn't followed through on writing to you more, as he said he'd do...
I don't think there's anything wrong with saying so to him. Not in a condemning way, of course, but just as a matter of fact... you still want your space (defined as you see fit), you're still not ready for a committed relationship, you still enjoy spending time with a variety of folks, but ... "gee, I really would like to correspond with you, if that's something you'd enjoy doing."
Just a thought... because it seems important to me that in getting away from any sense of desperation re: relationships, and in recognizing that you don't absolutely need to have someone right now forever and a day, I think it would be a shame to not ask for what you'd really like, on your terms, even more than once, if for no other reason than to get practice at it :) Hope that makes sense... it's been floating around in my head all day.
Love,
Hope
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I really like it that you're open to spending time and getting to know several people in a light and present, be in this day and enjoy it, kind of way. Keep that up, dear.
I wrote to him and thanked him for a lovely evening etc. he's not responded so I will not write or call until he does. And I'll gently introduce reciprocity into one of our conversations, he was talking about making deeper relationships with siblings and stuff so it doesn't have to be about me/ romance!
I am not going to actually get involved romantically with anyone else until I figure where this is going, he's a really honest straightforward guy and would soon back off from any game-playing, that's one of the things I like most about him; but I think we need to have a talk some time soon and 'put our cards on the table'.
Sometimes I think the emotional investment goes into the not knowing and fantasy whereas if he were to say, sorry I just want to be friends I can take a real step back and just enjoy the friendship without feeling like I might be trampling something else.
( if that makes sense )
The is it/ isn't it thing is definitely a pain in the neck... (although I think the image of you plucking daisy petals is a charming one
Thank you, not sure if we have daisies in Texas? :)
I think it would be a shame to not ask for what you'd really like, on your terms, even more than once, if for no other reason than to get practice at it
You're right, and until I can handle the emotions associated with rejection I can't really risk a relationship can I, they often only get worse as time goes on.
He doesn't seem the mean kind, who would totally reject someone, or harshly, so probably a good candidate to open up with too.
I am getting less insecure, and more happy with myself, and my life is straightening out, and I am beginning to know myself better than ever.
A lot of my anxieties come from being overwhelmed or ill or stressed or tired, so I am learning to manage them:
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Thank you all for talking/ walking me through this ((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))
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[I am getting less insecure, and more happy with myself, and my life is straightening out, and I am beginning to know myself better than ever.
((((Write))))
I am so glad to read this... I'm really pleased for you. And I am glad to read reciprical. While I was reading I thought, there's nothing to say about meeting someone who treats Write the way she deserves to be treated, because I feel that is very important too.
Take care
H&H xx
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Thanks H & H.
I think I do attach to people very easily, and it's in many ways a blessing and a skill...but in terms of romance I am coming to understand the 'saving yourself for someone special' concept. Not as any expression of chastity or self-discipline ( bit late for that, smile ) but just because I have tried all the nearly-relationships and know now, they aren't enough for me.
I guess as you change and grow you need a partner/ friendships with other people who do the same. And you can't know that about someone for a while in close contacts.
Isn't it strange & wonderful, in all the time I've been posting I've gone from abusive husband and dare I leave to I only want a relationship that's really good. It's been a hiccuppy journey, but I'm getting there.
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I missed this on my first reading, so glad I went back. I understand this enormously, Write:
Sometimes I think the emotional investment goes into the not knowing and fantasy
This is what I did with men for most of my life. Until my last-N bf, which ended a year and a half ago.
Anne Wilson's Schaf's Escape from Intimacy was a big help to me with this (except I don't go as far as she does into the addiction/disease model)...it taught me a lot about how I was in love with fantasies in my own head. Prevented me from being present and staying in the present, and not leaping ahead, not pushing/pressing/subtly urging the other person to move in the direction I wanted.
If I have another relationship one day, I'm really going to be present. As if present is all there is. If one day, my present with a person begins to include my desire to, in that present with that person, begin to make plans for the future, I'll know it because we'll both be there. And if we're not, then I will pull right back from the future and assess the present again, realistically, to see if I think my partner is still heading that way. I'll have patience, but not limitless. I'm 56, after all!
Hops, daydreaming
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Hops,
I have to say, that being in a wild, crazy, fun-filled, loving relationship at the age of 56 is so much better than I ever could have imagined. There just aren't the same pressures that I felt in my 20's and 30's. There is no biological time clock ticking, the "always a bridesmaid, never a bride" b.s., young children to attend to, the time constraints of building a career (for either of us), saving to buy a home, whatever. We are fortunate to have more control over our available time for each other and to get away from home.
You are so correct about staying in the present and enjoying those moments. I admit to slipping up on that from time to time and worrying about the future, but I am trying to maintain a balance that keeps me grounded, but having fun and appreciating it. I am not getting any younger and I know that, but I also know that I am not old and won't be for a long time. But the benefit of being older is that I just don't give a rat's behind anymore what people think about what I doing or whom I'm doing it with. My kids and friends support me, and that's all I need.
My advice to you and anyone else who is interested in companionship--make yourself available and test the waters. Find some male companions to spend time with and have some fun. Don't put pressure on yourself to find "the one." He'll probably come along when you least expect it, but he surely won't ever come along if you're not available to be found.
Write, it sounds like you are doing just that and finding it to be pleasurable and exciting. Good for you. You truly have come miles in your time here and it is so good to read. All the best.
Hugs,
Brigid
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If I have another relationship one day, I'm really going to be present. As if present is all there is.
it's scary.
I can live in the moment in most ways quite bravely now, but let someone look lovingly at me with deep blue eyes and I say something like 'all men are abusive' and he shakes his head softly and smiles at me. But he doesn't look at me like that again, not openly.
Find some male companions to spend time with and have some fun. Don't put pressure on yourself to find "the one." He'll probably come along when you least expect it,
yes, it's something Kate White wrote in one of her books ( 9 Secrets of Women Who Get Everything They Want ) She was looking at art in a gallery waiting for her husband and a gorgeous guy came over and asked her out; she wondered where all these lovely men where when she was single...but of course being totally content she's now giving off a different vibe than she was then when good relationships seemed to elude her.
but he surely won't ever come along if you're not available to be found.
and available in the emotional sense as much as the time and place.
Thank you so much for reminding me that life getting a bit older ( and wiser ) is so much better. Being 40 is turning out to be fun after all!!!
I was in love with fantasies in my own head.
absolutely. I know everyone daydreams but once you have a mental image of how you'd like things to unfold, the reality can seem less than perfect. Expectations can really squash the sponteneity!
I'm 56, after all!
one thing I am learning is- enjoy every day! Right now that's mostly on my own or with the dog or my son ( he's last as his pre-teen moods and my optimism don't exactly gel soemtimes! )
But getting into bed with some things accomplished, everyone safe and well, and lookign forward to tomorrow. EVen if I never find a partner I can live a pretty good life like that I think.
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Dear Write,
You write about being available in the emotional sense as much as the time and place.
I get this visual of open hands, versus fingers clenched and clinging to remnants of shattered illusions.
I think that we can open the hands of our hearts to both give and receive to the extent that we recognize that all men (and women) have the capacity to act in an abusive manner. Learning to live and give fully despite that awareness is the challenge, I think. There's an equal and opposite reaction to any action in nature. To me, this means that we have the capacity to refuse to receive any abusive offerings others may extend to us. The truly opposite reaction to abuse offered is to decline it, not to give it back, and not even to see it coming and run, I think. Knowing that frees me up to stop watching with hawk eyes for any negative signals and just be. To just be is to be dis-illusioned in the very most positive way, I think. You're doing great, imo!
Love,
Hope