Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: BJ on August 08, 2006, 05:00:56 PM
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Maybe this is "my stuff", but I have to voice my feelings and thoughts about my discontent with what I have read lately on this board. While reading all the character assassinations and chastising, I found myself feeling embarrassed and ashamed...then I began to experience a physical reaction. That's when I knew I had to post a response. It is with genuine sadness that I write this post.
For the past several weeks, I have been in a state rich in generosity, caring, sharing, and consideration or thoughtfulness and mindfulness. During this time, I have also experienced a high level of stress due to my mother's serious, constantly declining and then changing again, medical conditions. Also, it has been difficult dealing with my family of origin during this time.
Anyway, during one of my troubling moments, I turned to my computer and this board, as I sometimes do. It has usually been an opportunity to share comfort, intelligence, insight, and some interesting reading, with a cause and feeling for hopefulness...not necessarily to post; just to connect--to you; all of you. In my claim to heal my voicelessness, I often, but not always, choose to remain a "non-poster". Instead, I choose to observe, learn, and feel much compassion and growth from reading here and being here... until I have something to offer in response. Having a voice is also about my choice not to voice (or post), or to read or not to read. Regardless, I have always felt a sense of underlying protection illuminating here from my computer screen.
With the influence and writings of Dr. G on this board, “his direction” and monitoring seems to be a source of compassion and comfort. This is what this board is all about. WHAT HAPPENED???? I find this need to have a readjustment and resurfacing of his amazingly intelligent simplicity, as this influence is the essence of our healing. How did we get so far from our focus? Have we truly diverted from learning to be self centered...to actually being self--centered? Yes, I'm disappointed--greatly disappointed.
I feel we all need to go back to the beginning and read Dr. Grossman’s original stories again…like we are reading them for the first time. Maybe we have carried this voicelessness issue way too far! I find we are all lonely in some way; acting out in many ways, trying to find a voice and prove our existence and credibility. Yet in doing so, we have lost our dignity!!! In some cases, I feel I am surrounded by the same negative dynamics that originally caused me to find this forum. What ever happened to resolution with responsibility? Conflict may surface as a result of pain and that can produce growth. Attacking and singling-out members or guests is seriously damaging to anyone who may read it. If you have a private conflict, shouldn't you keep it private and don't make it board business...unless people can benefit from it?
IMO, we need to be humble and find our humility again. The world is at war with itself and I feel we are eating ourselves alive. We don’t only need to defend against our abusers anymore…we have become them! I am troubled feeling the need to disengage from the very people who I need to relate to. I know this is not the focus of Dr. Grossman, and yet, it seems we have taken advantage of his generous character…allowing us any and all voice (within reason) as a pathway to health and healing.
In closing, I repeat…to me, it’s time for all of us to take a good look at Dr. G’s original essays and reflect on their content. Then, look again at ourselves and others objectively. Next, note how we interact and what consequences and missed opportunities may arise as a result. It is my hope that we can all continue our contributions and return to the true essence of this board…as intended by its' healing members, guests, and Dr. Grossman and his patient (both meanings) wisdom.
Passionately,
BJ
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AMEN
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BJ...WHAT ON EARTH???
I felt like I was being spoken to by some sort of parent-figure here and frankly, I have 2 mothers and a spiritual mom, so I really didn't need another.
I like the tone of the board lately. I have made peace with most people here and I pray that it doesn't change.
I have read every one of Dr G's posts and I see no reason to re-read them for any reason. No, I do not believe people here has BECOME the N's they are trying to heal from. That is ludicrous.
~Laura
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"Voicelessness is an interpersonal learned helplessness."
"'Voice' is the sense of agency that makes a child confident that he or she will be heard, and that he or she will impact his or her environment."
Probably most of you know Dr. G's essays far better than I do. But I picked these quotes because I sometimes need to remind myself that "voice" is not necessarily supposed to be taken literally. It means far more than talking or expressing opinions. It is internal. It is between us as well. Each member of the relationship counts for something. I have to remind myself of this new idea, new to me when I came here, as I go along practicing my own "sense of agency".
This is why I want to be careful when I post. This is why I am working on using less and less sarcasm in my communication with others. I believe Dr. G's definition of voicelessness is a good one and a helpful one. The way I interpret it and practice it is helping me to grow.
Pennyplant
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Lupine
I totally agree with you.
I think I am done here.
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(((((((BJ))))))))
IMO, we need to be humble and find our humility again. The world is at war with itself and I feel we are eating ourselves alive. We don’t only need to defend against our abusers anymore…we have become them!
I have been abusive here (my perception, my definition of myself).
Humility? Being humble doesn't mean being a doormat (it does mean not being superior). I refuse to be afraid of anyone any more: however:
however: I don't like feeling my anger rise up here. I'd rather take it into the 3D world and use it there. Use it as fuel for life. Anger can be a useful motivator i think! A sad second-best to love, compassion etc though.
I am troubled feeling the need to disengage from the very people who I need to relate to.
I will continue to relate to the people I need (and want!) to relate to. I will not engage with people who I don't need (or want) to relate to and hey, there's bound to be some wherever I go. New slogan: refuse to abuse! 8)
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Laura:
BJ...WHAT ON EARTH???
I felt like I was being spoken to by some sort of parent-figure here and frankly, I have 2 mothers and a spiritual mom, so I really didn't need another.
My thoughts were simply my wishes for the return of peace and comfort here, as directed by Dr.Grossman. In no way was I attempting to parent anyone. Why should you take such personal offense to my hopes? After all, let us remember... this board's magic is the brainstorm of Dr. Grossman!
I have made peace with most people here and I pray that it doesn't change.
I have had peace here and have not had to make it...it just is. We each have the power within us to maintain that peace. If you truly want it Laura, then you (and we) will have it.
No, I do not believe people here has BECOME the N's they are trying to heal from. That is ludicrous.
I never said we are becoming N. I only meant these abusive conflicts defeat our own goals and purpose. Yes, it is very abusive and you can call it what you want. Many good people here have felt unecessary negative responses as a result of some postings. Can you be objective about this Laura?
I have read every one of Dr G's posts and I see no reason to re-read them for any reason.
I re-read them for any reason.
I have randomly re-read Dr. G's post occassionaly and I find that each time I reflect on something new and wonderful. As I move forward, so do his stories. You might try reading any one again, like it's new. Maybe you'll find you have grown some too...or maybe not?...even that is growth! It takes a strong person to show their weakness.
BJ
ps. And for those now thinking of leaving this board as a result of these conflicts--PLEASE re-think your choices. I am suddenly reminded of a quote from a Holocaust movie called "Sunshine". To paraphrase, "Why did you watch them torture and kill your father? There were eight of them and two thousand of us!" TOUCHE~
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Dear posters,
Go back to the board archives BEFORE March 1, and judge for yourself.
Yes, I was here when the board was a supportive, safe place.
I feel angry and SAD, SAD, SAD about that.
Movinon
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SAFETY KINDNESS RESPECT LOVE HONOR GENTLENESS
IT IS HOW YOU RESOLVE YOUR CONFLICT
MOON
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Dear BJ,
Your passion sparkles. It's a joy to read your heart in your post.
How is your mother now? Are you able to talk about your recent experiences in dealing with family?
Here to listen
With love,
Hope
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Dear Hope,
I am very touched by your statement and your thoughtful questions of my family. Yes, I would be able to talk about my mother and my family troubles/stress/trauma. Although I must admit, when I feel the safety and compassion from friends and places like this board (and your style of post), that fills me with what I need to carry-on. I will talk and share for those interested or to connect with similar suffering. It is never my intention to just whine without trying to find some purpose in the reflection--healing, understanding, sharing, connection, relating, loving, kindness...etc.
I do realize that it may be considered selfish of me to take the love and safety I feel here without giving back my experiences or stories, but to me, it's just the way it is and I want to keep moving forward--whenever it's possible. I'm sure there may be a time in the near future when I need to tell parts of my story. And thank you for inviting me to talk and think about this matter. Maybe I do need to look at my options in this regard and how they could help me and others. I sometimes think I feel my story is of no interest to others. I don't ever want pity, but perhaps a good friend is always helpful.
Thank you so much for turning this post in a caring, thoughtful direction. I feel your heart, too.
BJ
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(((((((BJ)))))))) Your words just sang to my heart. I was reminded of Jesus' words in the book of Revelation, where He says to the church at Ephesus... "I know your deeds and your toil and perseverence, and that you cannot endure evil men... and you have endured for my name's sake, and have not grown weary. But I have this against you, that you have left your first love."
I can really relate to your desire to find some purpose in your reflection on your experiences, especially the mutual understanding and connection, which do lead to healing, I believe. I must tell you that when I first skimmed your post, I thought... oh no, another person who is offended by the recent board discussions. But I couldn't leave it at that. I came back to read again and saw your next post, and knew that you were not reacting when you wrote these things, you were giving a heartfelt response and a cry for .... mercy. True mercy is a rare quality, I think, and something this world could sorely use.
I sometimes think that my story is of no interest to others, either. In fact, it only comes out in bits and pieces as I respond to others whose words somehow open a door to old memories. But I am noticing that I am often surprised when those doors open... sometimes not so pleasantly ... startled, to find how much some shade of the past still hurts, when I'd thought I was beyond that point. However, more often than not lately, I am pleasantly amazed to realize that there has been healing and growth... and a level of peace that somehow settled in when I wasn't looking. Those are some of the best discoveries to be made, I think, as we share according to how we are led by our hearts and spirits. So whenever you are ready, however much or little seems natural to you, I hope you'll feel free to let it flow.
With love,
Hope
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BJ
"Why did you watch them torture and kill your father? There were eight of them and two thousand of us!"
huh???
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MOVIION WHAT IS THE IMPORTANTANCE OF THE MARCH 1 DATE I TOO FEEL THE BOARD WAS SAFE SUPPORTIVE AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND FULLY WHAT IS HAPPENINg??????????????????????
moon
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BJ"Why did you watch them torture and kill your father? There were eight of them and two thousand of us!"
huh???
Really
What is it that you are confused about here? What would you like to understand? I'm happy to explain.
BJ
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Here's a question.
Is it possible for those who feel conflict is valuable to them and those of us who do not to coexist here?
Maybe those of us who dislike the conflict could stop complaining about it and simply engage in positive conversations with other like minded people, while ignoring the dust ups going on elsewhere.
And maybe those who do feel they profit from conflicts could be a little more careful in confining those conflicts amongst themselves with a mind to limiting the collateral damage on neighboring threads.
It's not a perfect solution, maybe not a solution at all, but it would sure beat people leaving or spending all their time having a tug-a-war over what the board is supposed to be.
I'm not directing this at anyone in particular but the conflicts over the conflicts just add to the disharmony. Equanimity in the midst of conflict and chaos is a hard won lesson but it sure brings peace to one's soul.
mud
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Hear hear Mud!
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Why did you watch them torture and kill your father? There were eight of them and two thousand of us!"
The only thing required for evil to prevail is for good men and women to do (and say) nothing
I TOTALLY get this, but it's difficult. I want to be here to fight the "evil" and do and say something instead of leaving or standing by, but I can't help that I am frustrated when I leave this board these days. Religious abuse seems to be rampant here now instead of religious UNDERSTANDING. How many of us suffered religious abuse from "well-meaning" relatives who changed religions almost as often as their underwear?
Mud - Good to hear from you again. You're right it's not a perfect solution, but I see where your heart is and your idea is something I would LOVE to se manifested on this board.
Moon - I put it in another post and OF COURSE got immediately slammed. I know I will get slammed again here, but what's new? This is MY OPINION - mine. I attribute the chaos being created to one very vocal person who posted constantly that was not here before March 1. There were differing opinions here and still RESPECT. There was no one yelling, "You're wrong and I'm right because GOD tells me I'm right."
This is not an attempt to enflame anyone. I can accept that people have different opinions. My word is not law nor absolute - what a depressive state to live in to be the ultimate authority.
blessings,
Movinon
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BRAVO!
I agree with all of you--let's get on with whatever works! Let things flow naturally.
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Mud,
I think your proposal is a realistic and sensible compromise and I know it's one by which I can abide. I don't know about anyone else, though. I guess that's where the unpredictability that Jac mentions enters the picture. We can each only take responsibility for ourselves and our own behavior.
Thanks for contributing an objective view with the best interests of everyone involved in mind.
Hope
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Many times the conflicts cannot be confined because they are unpredictable. I find that something I've posted has triggered someone and all of a sudden the thread just goes haywire....... Any thoughts in situations such as that?
I can only suggest what I have found helpful, jac. And I must admit I have not always practiced what I now preach.
I would suggest taking a stab at explaining what you meant. If the results are still not what you had hoped then respectfully withdraw and wait for a time more conducive to discussion. People who are triggered are rarely likely to listen to reason, especially from the one who has triggered them. If you have a chronic problem with a particular person then there's not much you can do other than ignore them and wait for an opportunity to see if reconciliation is possible.
CH,
The utility of what I suggest is that it is irrelevant if everyone doesn't abide by it as long as there are some who do. If people want to have a cat fight over in their corner fine, as long as we can play marbles over in our corner without getting our mouths full of their fur. A lot of the problem seems to come when people abandon a perfectly respectable game of marbles to go get a few licks in across the room.
Some people seem to have the idea that there are a few people here who are really screwed up and they just happen to have been appointed to either fix them or defend the rest of the board from them. That's probably noble theoretically, but practically it just makes a small mess big and a short one very long and tedious and as the title of this thread suggests, ultimately pretty boring.
mud
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Mud,
I see what you're saying and it makes good sense. As long as some of us refuse to become embroiled in seemingly never-ending spitting matches, business as usual can continue. It does often appear that a mini crisis has nearly wrapped up when someone new to the discussion tosses in a remark and the whole shebang catches fire again, but I guess that's a situation inherent to this sort of time-delayed (at times) forum. I do believe that these things will run their course and die a natural death if "fixing" and "protecting" modes are relinquished and alot more (temporary) ignore is applied. In cases of chronic head butters, at least with my two youngest kids this works.. they are simply not allowed to speak to each other, period, unless they have something kind to say. Self-imposed, situational voicelessness could spare alot of trips around the mulberry bush, I think.
Sure glad you're able to be here, Mud, and I'm still praying for permanent respite from the storm for your family.
Hope
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I have been coming here for several months. I am aware of the conflicts on this board, although I admit that I do not keep up with all the threads well enough to recognize who all the feuding parties are and just what all the fuss is about most of the time. Quite often I see some punches being thrown and think, "Well, this just ain't my dog's fight" and move onto another thread.
Conflict exists. We just have to deal with it. On occasion we will butt heads. So what? Like mud, I think we can come here and take what we find healing and helpful and leave the rest behind. There are some wonderfully gifted and enlightened souls on this board. We are all in varying stages of growth and recovery - much like a rehab wing in a hospital. As with any physical rehab, there will be some occasional moaning and groaning and even angry outbursts as we learn to use injured and atrophied muscles again. It is simply part of the process.
I am not so sure that jumping ship is the answer. I think there is room for everyone here - from those just "waking up" to those ready to sign their release papers.
ANewSheriff