Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on August 17, 2006, 09:28:38 PM
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My D has sent me several emails lately.
Remember the painful one, where she discouraged me from calling her?
Anyway, a few days later I was at my desk and thought, heck wid it, and I wrote her a very long very funny one about a bat in our conference room, the accent of a Bulgarian professor, our dog's recent bath, and other stuff. Enjoyed writing it and didn't care if she replied. Headed it: Important news!
A few days later she sent me a long essay she'd once written when she was sitting for a 102-year-old family friend in the last week or two of her life. It was good, and I think it was my D's way of indirectly acknowledging that she noticed I'd told her I was dealing with death. Then she left me a voicemail at work to mention again that she'd sent it. (!!) I think it was a meaningful thing to share with me, and that she also sent it because I had told her I thought she'd made her point very well in a sort of argumentative email she'd sent me earlier. Because she did. I hadn't agreed but she expressed it well. I think sometimes she hasn't shared her writing because she's afraid of criticism, but I don't do that. So maybe that's what softened her some. Or maybe the funny one reminded her of how we used to share humour. Then today she forwarded me two pictures of herself that her boss (a veterinarian) had taken of her at her desk at work (a cat clinic).
Anyway, it's not exactly an adult conversation yet but the freeze has thawed, and I'm glad. I think we still have a long way to go before it's completely healthy, not enmeshed, etc.. But I have learned some detachment from this period of painful "silent treatment" and I'm going to stay away from going back to too much closeness.
My fears of total abandonment have eased. My other concerns about who she's decided to be, and her own N traits, are still there. But I am holding to the thought that she has her own growth to attend to, and her own healing to do, and I both can't and don't want to try to force it.
I'm really not interested in being treated anything but courteously and well, going forward.
Hops
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hi hops,
That was pretty creative of you, and you knew to throw caution to the wind. :)
smiling over here in my corner of the planet for you hops, and your lovely D.
pb
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A shy startled dove
May rejoice to learn that she
Has fledged an eagle.
;-)
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Oh, Hops, it had to feel so good to hear from her, and in depth too!!!! She's got it in her. Very, very good news and at such a sad time too. I'm happy for you!
PP
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:) thanks much, all y'all.
it's a relief
not throwing caution entirely to the winds, but I'm glad I kept reaching out
one day at a time
Hops
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Good going, hops! You sound like you are really on the right track.
Hugs,
Beth
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This is lovely to hear Hops. It sounds like a great pressure has lifted?? That's the best! Way to go sending your D something that made you smile! As you say, one day at a time.
It's great that she shared something of hers too. She does care Hops. She's just young and trying to make her own place in the world, I bet. But she wants you in it. Good for you for having faith and letting go a little. Not easy stuff. It was wonderful to read how you enjoyed writing and weren't worried about a reply.
:D Sela
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Thanks, Sela.
She needs time and I'm newly able to give it.
This did matter, that she connected at this time.
:)
Hops
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HIYA HOPS AND SELA , Something is shaking loose.I can feel it too ..............all the way out here in the Wild West.
Some good vibes for you and your wonderful daughter Hops :D
And the lovely Sela posting I betcha Portia hopefully will be posting then I will see the gracious Sisters of Mercy that quieted my fears when that was all I could feel............................thx :D
I mean Hi Sela glad to see ya !!!!!!!!!!!
MoonLight 8)
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This is great news Hops. Yay!
As the Buddhists say. You just have to let go of the outcome, and tghe universe will deliver. (This is paraphrased somewhat.)
I disagree that it is not an adult convo - having a good time and light banter is certainly adult. So is skirting the issue if you want to....What did you have in mind as an adult conversation?
Plucky
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Sure, my end was banter.
What I found non-adult was that she couldln't say, I am sorry for your loss.
I'm sorry about your friend.
Empathy.
It was great that she finally contacted me in any way at all. But it was still all about her.
(See my writing. See my picture.)
If I sound ungrateful, I am not. I thank god my child is still in touch.
I just think it would be wiser of me to keep some distance, emotionally.
Not to become completely vulnerable to her again.
I think this summer has changed us both and I do plan to continue to respect her space.
What has slowly dawned on me is that I need to keep boundaries up. I need to feel respect in return before I can be vulnerable and completely open again. And that's probably a good development, as we were enmeshed.
I will find out over time who she decides to become...
Hope that makes sense and doesn't sound unloving.
I love her as much as ever, but I am guarded.
I think I need to be.
Thanks for asking...
Hops
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WISDOM THIS SUMMER THIS SUMMER OF WISDOM
so much love
so brave
so beautiful
so beloved
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Oh, I see now. Thanks Hoppy for the explanation.
Well, if the relationship had a quality of enmeshment, then probably this development is best for both of you, no? Maybe she instinctively felt this and chose the wrong way to make it happen. Maybe you couldn't do it because as a mother you would feel cruel to withdraw in any way. I don't think you sound the least bit unloving. Letting go is one of the hardest parts of motherhood and I hope when my time comes I will not be dragged along the pavement clinging pitifully to my child's hem, and thankfully I have a few more years to try and achieve this detachment.....I'll try to start by not bawling when he goes to kindergarten (waaah!). At least until I get back home. Or in the car. Ok, out the door.
Plucky
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((((Plucky)))) :)
I know your little guy is a very very lucky-plucky little boy!
And thank you ((((((Moon)))))) for understanding.
love to you both,
Hops
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(((((((((Hoppy)))))))))))))
I am so delighted to read this... I'm really happy for you and for your D.
I am happy that you trusted your own judgement and rode with it!
My other concerns about who she's decided to be, and her own N traits, are still there.
I guess this is what being a parent is about, being concerned? But I admire how you are giving her the space to let her be who she's decided to be, yet being there for her as well. You are an amazing, warm and kind hearted person Hops. Your D is one very lucky chicken to have a Mum like you.
Take care
Love H&H xx
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Hiya Hops:
What I found non-adult was that she couldln't say, I am sorry for your loss.
I'm sorry about your friend.
Yep. I think I'd feel similar. Sorry for that too Hoppy. I wish she could/would act more adult, especially in such situations. I don't like to think of you giving up hope for that to happen. It still could. She's still young and will change as life goes on. And it's hard not to feel kinda hurt by her non-empathetic reply, I bet.
I do think you've done well!! You're putting up boundaries to help keep yourself feeling safe, while letting her know that you care, want communication with her. I guess one thing is to not expect empathy maybe? That way, you won't be disappointed and may some time be pleasantly surprised? I know it's not what you might want but I commend you for doing what has to be done. Not easy.
Hiya Moon! Glad to see you too!! I'm away again from today for a few days so to borrow some famous words:
"I'lllllllllll be bawck!"
:D Sela
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Hops,
I'm so glad that you and your D are communicating. That is certainly a good start toward rebuilding the relationship.
What I found non-adult was that she couldln't say, I am sorry for your loss.
I'm sorry about your friend.
I wouldn't give this much concern. She is still at that age when it is all about them. Even though I have a good relationship with my kids, they still don't ask much about how I'm doing--mainly want to unload their problems so I can sympathize, or share good news so I can praise them. Sometimes they are kids trying to act like adults and sometimes they're adults trying to act like kids. You never know which age-level is going to show up on any given day.
I think it is very wise of you to maintain your boundaries and expect at the very least, respectful conversation. She will eventually understand that too. It may take until she has children of her own, but most likely she will get it some day. Just remain a steady anchor of support and love, who expects to be treated politely and respectfully.
All the best,
Brig
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Good news Hops. :D
And I'm so relieved; I thought it was going to be another global warming thread. :P
mud
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You never know which age-level is going to show up on any given day.
So funny and so true. Thanks, Brig, and for this too:
Just remain a steady anchor of support and love, who expects to be treated politely and respectfully.
It's best for me not to turn to her for empathy--as you said, Plucky. And over time, maybe she'll grow some.
Stormy, how did you know one of her tattoos was of an eagle? Actually, that one silenced me, and properly so. We were out to lunch when she was 19, she said, got something to show you, I think ohh-nooo, then she pulls up her sleeve and on the underside of her upper arm is a big fat eagle with two roses and a banner in his talons, and the banner says, Father. She looked at me and said, I miss him, and now I can hug him, and pressed her arm to her side. It broke my heart. So I don't dislike that one at all...how could I? Then later, on the other arm, upper side, she has a, ahem, nipple-flashing naked woman with a dragon, and a blank banner is in there somewhere. She said, mom, that banner is for the name of your novel when you finish it. So two of her tattoos are all about love for her parents.
I believe the skulls on her behind and the naked lady climbing out of a flaming skull on her SHIN (dumb! dumb! she wore one keesock all summer trying to convince her Grandma it's a fad!)...are about something else. Sigggh. But the large mandala of animal paws is about loving animals. I think she's done. I know a while back I said, and she knew I was dead serious, I wil go with you to a tattoo parlor right now and get one with you, if you'll promise to make it your last one. As far as I know, she hasn't added any since.
In fact, to show respect for her choices, and make it up to her that I once shamed her about them...I think maybe someday when we're together I will ask her to take me to one of those places, and get a little sunflower put somewhere the sun don't shine...
Mud, when the pond is almost dried up I challenge you to mud wrestle while you holler, I'm sorry, Al, I'm sorry! :lol:
I'm not working because this is more...just more. Better get back at it.
Hops
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Brigid,
Every word you wrote has helped me understand my 2 girls and one is thirteen I need all the impute I can get.
Really I have good relationship's with them.The older d had to move back home because of a surgery she went though (she's 100% now)and moving out soon with her roommate Sara in a condo.Finishing college :D
But if our older girl gets disrespectful she will go for a walk across the street ,there's a big park come home and ask "was I being a brat"and then we talk.
So signs of thaw are good. My older d is 3 years older than hops d
And it is not easy to find the balance.Thank you for post Brigid very balanced as always.
All the very best to you,
MoonLight
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HOPS opps i hope i did not hi jack of your thread Hops just tell me if i am out of bounds .I just am wanting to learn.
my oldest d at 17 came home with her nose pierced had it a couple of weeks and took it out and it closed up.
But she does have a belly button piercing ring with a small diamond in it also she does belly dancing.
Girls are something.
love to you hops
m
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Moon, you can't hijack any thread I start, remember? I'm always glad you appear!
I'm glad your D decided against a third nostril. For some reason, my sweetie spared her face from extra holes. A few marching up the ears, but the eyebrows and nose and tongue so far made it through. I THINK she's done punching holes in herself.
I am letting that all go. And I'm glad. It was pointless. (I think the more horrified I was the more appeared, of course. Ohhh to have been Brigid now and then!). If she sees them differently one day, well, there's motivation to earn a good salary...laser correction is expensive.
I have thought about it a lot, though and, drumroll, I have a theory:
When I was her age I was of the Woodstock generation (almost went there with a girl from down the hall in my college dorm, but wasn't quite motivated enough). Anyway, some iconic images from those years (these aren't necessarily me!) were: peace (sticking flowers in Guardsmen's rifles at antiwar protests), love (make love not war), drugs (euphoria and oblivion--too naive to know the dark side of all that that was being born), rock and roll (more euphoria as well as rebellion). If I think of "sex, drugs and rock 'n roll" (caveat of course: a lot of it stupid and destructive), and peaceniks...the overall image I get is of a generation (unless we were soldiers) who were after PLEASANT sensations and would never consider doing things to themselves that actually caused intense pain! Yikes It was a huge deal to get your earlobes pierced! I did know many "hippies" who did carry a languid innocence...it seemed characteristic.
Now my D's time. Here I go...I believe that the enormous media saturation in horror and violence (it began with the brutal realities of Viet Nam every night on the tube, and has escalated to gore and violence glorified absolutely routinely in major movies...from Kubrick thru Pulp Fiction, and beyond)...anyway, I believe that some kids my D's general age have become so numbed and desensitized in a way that they are literally turning this violence against themselves...IN ORDER TO FEEL. Their circuits are so overloaded by the graphic and apparently entertaining gore in the media everywhere, that they have shut down in self-protection. But at some level, I believe some of those who tattoo and pierce themselves are literally trying to release pain by incurring it intentionally.
I don't know if this makes much sense to anybody, I could put it better but I'm sort of drained.
(I often rant about media though. Thanks for bearing with me.)
BTW, Moon, I think belly dancing is WONDERFUL!!! Every woman I know who has done it has just loved it and has come away feeling so good about herself and her body, no matter what shape she has. Huzzah.
Hugs,
Hops
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Moon & Hops,
Girls are something.
Boy, isn't that the truth. :? The moodiness is enough to make you insane sometimes. My son has always been a pretty happy guy and has never snarled at me, even when going through a stressful time (like right now--he's taking the MCAT exam today--everyone please say a prayer that he does well). My darling D however, can be sweet as pie one minute then turn on you if you ask the "wrong" question, or if you don't know the answer to a question she asks that I SHOULD know the answer to.
As sad as I have been at her leaving in 11 days, I am getting weary of reminding her of what still needs to be done and getting the looks that kill. I think it is God's way of helping us to let go and be just a little bit happy that there will be a period of separation for awhile.
The tattoo and piercing thing has gone pretty wild in our children's generation. Mine have both only opted for a single piercing on the upper ear as their statement to becoming adults, but it seems that everywhere I look, even the most mainstream of young adults have tattoos. I often wonder how they will feel about them as their skin starts to age and wrinkle. I wish I could be the person to invent the process to easily remove them, as I think that will be in demand down the road.
Have a great weekend.
Hugs,
Brigid