Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: reallyME on September 04, 2006, 12:33:46 AM
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The following info is rather heated because I feel very strongly about it. IT is MY view and I don't mind if you do not want to adhere to and agree with it. It is fine. Take it for what it's worth or don't if it's worthless to you.
First of all, I will reiterate again, that ABUSERS ARE NOT YOUR PARENTS, PERIOD! If you grew up with a so-called mother or father who abused, raped, tortured you, THEY ARE NOT WORTHY TO BEAR THE LABEL OF "Mom" or "Dad" and, I"m sorry, but "they were the only "Parents" I ever knew" does not wash with me either. A parent does not do such things to a child. That is truth and it's just how it is.
Now, when I hear a 50 year old woman, tripping over herself wondering if she should take a job offer she is good for and desires, cause "Mother might disapprove" I go through two reactions: wanting to slap the "mother" and wanting to shake the 50 year old. Newsflash! If you are an adult and you are still making choices based on pleasing or avoiding disapproval, guilt, torment, punishment from a "parent" (and, again, to me that is not a person worthy of that honor to be called such), then there is a REAL PROBLEM...and it's time for you to learn to reclaim who you are...not the CHILD in you, but to find out how to live as an adult-you.
In another post, I asked a question about someone who was an adult, giving a rip about her "mother" getting all upset over something. I asked "what do you care?" I was dead serious in that question too. At adult age, what your 'Mother'/"father" think of every move you make...well, it's not their business. Even the Bible tells the man to leave his parents and cleave to his wife and the two shall become one flesh.
My last point...it is good if you can realize that the person who claims and claimed to be "mom" or "Dad" in your life, that you obviously have come to see as messed-up, needs to be viewed as nothing more or less than a flawed human being. The biggest thing people in dysfunction get stuck in that I've heard, is "But she's my MOM" hear me LOUD AND CLEAR AGAIN...if that creature in the skirt that you call "MOM" abused you, tortured you, manipulated, punished, controlled you and maybe still does...THAT IS NOT A MOTHER AND IT IS NOT YOUR MOTHER!
A mother nurtures a child, lets that child think and behave with its own mind. A mother does not abuse a child, molest a child, guilt a child, neglect or shun a child. If this was done to you, you did not have a parent...you had a flawed creature trying to heal it's own wounds through making YOU pay for the things it went through in it's own upbringing. But, a parent? NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. Ok, now if you can see that creature as a human being, not as your "parent" then, I believe you will get somewhere in your healing process and in not expecting what you believe a real parent should have been and given you.
~Laura
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With me, I have finally begun to recognize that I have been relying on the excuse of what would my parents think--it is an excuse I use to keep myself limited, keep myself from trying the things I really want to do because I'm afraid to try those things. Afraid to try things I don't really know how to do and afraid to try out my dreams because maybe they won't work out afterall or maybe they are the "wrong" dreams.
Let me give an example. I am interested in local history and one project I am especially interested in is researching African American history of the 19th century for the county I live in. Finding who the people were and what their lives were like. I looked up every singe census record for the entire century and found every African American here who was listed as such. I have a box full of cards with this information listed for each person I found, named or not.
The next step is to look at other records like the newspapers and surrogate records and flesh out the people I already have and find the ones who were missed by the census. The goal being a book.
Several years ago, I wrote up what I had and sent in an article to the local paper for the op/ed page. It was printed along with my picture. Several people complimented me on this article. It appeared the week before Easter. On Easter Sunday I had the relatives over for dinner. My father attended as usual. And somewhere towards the end of the day, he berated me for publishing such an article. He was a very prejudiced man. He couldn't believe I would even research such a topic. Why was I interested in that? Why would I write about it? Why would I publish it? What would other people think? What if someone threatened me for this (yes, that was really a concern of his).
I was just devastated. I will never forget how that made me feel.
There was also some negative fallout from my former N-boss over this article. But that was minor compared to the reaction I got from my father.
It has taken me a long time to admit to myself however, that the real reason I let that project sit for the past five years, was not so much because of what he said, but because I was afraid I really couldn't write a book. Even just a few months ago, when I started to think about it again, I thought, well what if you do finish the research and write the book and get it printed and sold--well then peope will want you to come speak to their groups about it. You're busy, and kind of shy, and maybe you will embarrass yourself when people expect you to be an expert and maybe you're not an expert at all. What if, what if, what if.....
The problem is with me, not so much anymore with what my father would've have thought, or what rude thing my mother will think of to say if she ever learned about my project. Hey, I didn't even bother to tell her about it after my father's unsupportive reaction. But it is true, what ReallyMe says--ultimately, the responsibility for being brave enough to go ahead with my interests and goals lies with me. Not my family and not my sad past. It lies with me.
So, for me, the goal of healing is to become my real self and to go ahead with my interests and goals regardless of the past or the damage done to me. It is true that the damage is real and that it was caused by things done by people who should have cared more. But if I want to heal I have to leave that behind at some point.
That's where I'm at right now--still lots to work on. But seeing a little more clearly :) .
Pennyplant
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Laura: Amen
Now, when I hear a 50 year old woman, tripping over herself wondering if she should take a job offer she is good for and desires, cause "Mother might disapprove" I go through two reactions: wanting to slap the "mother" and wanting to shake the 50 year old. Newsflash! If you are an adult and you are still making choices based on pleasing or avoiding disapproval, guilt, torment, punishment from a "parent" (and, again, to me that is not a person worthy of that honor to be called such), then there is a REAL PROBLEM...and it's time for you to learn to reclaim who you are...not the CHILD in you, but to find out how to live as an adult-you.
Penneyplant: My guess, this was not the first time you were devastated by your parent.
You can hear what was said (NOISE), but why do you listen? Plug your ears...
We all want approval, especially from our parents.......Seeking approval can be disappointing and painful.
Work through the pain that comes with dissapproval ...expect it, then move on and don't look back.
quote]I was just devastated. I will never forget how that made me feel.
Lets say at a very young age 4? you could draw and create beautiful art, of course those around you would move you in studies for the Arts.
Now you're 21 you are confusing everyone when you want to become a chief instead of an Artist.
Life is great you create beautiful foods for all to SEE! WOW ! Who would have guessed?
Listen to YOUR inner strength and what direction the energy takes you. There is a plan for you,
you must NOT listen to the (noise ) You really do know best about the plan for your life..
Sometimes life takes you in directions you could never imagine on your own, the unconscious energy is taking you down a path for the plan already in your life. The "noise" could throw you off your path, as you can see.
Find peace, take a fresh look at your book and plug your ears. (I know that's difficult to do while you type)
((((((((Penneyplant))))))))) OR
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Pplant - this might help to inspire you. Have you ever heard of "The Chaneysville Incident", by David Bradley? Here is a review -- http://www.duluth.com/placed/story/02-21-1999bradbook.html --
This is a work of fiction, but it is entirely credible. It will start a fire in your heart, you will put it down with tears - and with a huge need to build something strong and fine to stand against this kind of bigotry [suffered by the protagonist and his ancestors] and all of the evils it brings. It may be just what you need as a kick-start.
Amazon has it, and you can find it in paperback in the occasional used bookstore, too.
((((((((((Pennyplant))))))))))
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Storm, Pp, et al,
My favorite place for hard to find books if you don't find it on Amazon.
http://www.abebooks.com/
teartracks
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why do you listen? Plug your ears...
And that is my current lesson. My father died two years ago this October. But my mother is still around and so this lesson will be learned with her. There are lots of things I don't even bother to tell her, knowing it will not bring any satisfaction. When I do have to respond, it is usually by email these days. So, I'm taking advantage of the distance email offers. Taking my time in making decisions and formulating answers. Making sure I'm doing what I want or need rather than what I think is expected of me. It is amazing how tricky this is after nearly 45 years of doing things a certain way. A way that came to feel natural even with the resulting frustration and resentment. I guess that felt natural too.
I imagine this kind of change in responding to self-centered and narrow-minded parents is far more difficult when you live close by and have to see them all the time. It's probably easier and less time-consuming to just do what you always do. I might not have even noticed all of the problems if I hadn't spent most of my adult life living in a different state from my mother. I got used to being a version of my real self, and then slammed right up against the past when she moved back here. A good thing, though. It forced me to see things I might not have otherwise been able to figure out.
It sure is a long process, at least the way I do things.
Pennyplant
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Pplant - this might help to inspire you. Have you ever heard of "The Chaneysville Incident", by David Bradley? Here is a review -- http://www.duluth.com/placed/story/02-21-1999bradbook.html --
This is a work of fiction, but it is entirely credible. It will start a fire in your heart, you will put it down with tears - and with a huge need to build something strong and fine to stand against this kind of bigotry [suffered by the protagonist and his ancestors] and all of the evils it brings. It may be just what you need as a kick-start.
Amazon has it, and you can find it in paperback in the occasional used bookstore, too.
((((((((((Pennyplant))))))))))
Thanks, Stormy. I have never heard of it and will look for it. I could use some inspiration. A little fire in my heart. PP
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RM, this is a good, thought-provoking topic. Thanks.
PP
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PP,
I am grateful and full of admiration for your desire to write this book.
And if you wrote the article, you can write the book.
BRAVO to you. (Don't worry about speaking engagements. You can accept or decline as you like. You can join Toastmasters in the meantime. An old-fashioned organization that lots of people find silly, but it is a BOON to the shy. Wonderfully practical and supportive and nothing's ever forced. Maybe try it?)
love
Hops
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Awesome Laura!!!!!!!
I couldn't agree more!! I think it's a hard thing to accept at first... I have to say, when I found out about all this, I didn't want to believe that my mother despises me... But boy do I feel happy now knowing that I am not the person she projected onto me. You are so right, they are poison and not parents. A sperm or an egg does not a parent make :)
Penny, keep on doing what you know is right... and moving forward. You can't remove a tape or an idea all at once. Like you said, you need to stop and think, do I like this, is this good for ME... And squelch those thoughts about what would matter to your mother. (Easier said than done... but I think practice makes it easier).
Honestly, the last bits of my guilt are fading away at last... I used to feel bad about living far away from them because they always whine about not seeing the kids. That's a crock of horseshit, b/c my mother only pretends so that my dad won't be horrified by her. And they wouldn't come to see us any more if we were closer. And she wouldn't call any more either. She has had three years to get a phone program that would allow her to call me for pennies, and she hasn't bothered. In three years she has called me twice, and the first time I heard about how expensive it was for months.
Sooo.... guilt BE GONE....
Thanks again Laura for the topic.
Love, Beth
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Beth,
Thank you for this: my mother only pretends so that my dad won't be horrified by her
That is a truth about my mother which I've never been able to verbalize.
Hope
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CH,
It always amazes me here how we are able to do that for one another. I can't tell you how many of the ideas and explanations helped me get through this last visit and realize how to go on with my life.
Love and more love,
beth
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Lets say at a very young age 4? you could draw and create beautiful art, of course those around you would move you in studies for the Arts.
Now you're 21 you are confusing everyone when you want to become a chief instead of an Artist.
Life is great you create beautiful foods for all to SEE! WOW ! Who would have guessed?
I can't begin to tell ya how much I LOVED this that you wrote! It is soooooooo true. Even from young ages, children begin stepping into what they were designed by Creator to become. Let no man stand in the way of God's GREATNESS within the human soul and spriit!
~Laura
Thank you all for the positive input. I really hesitate to post sometimes, because I'm feeling so firey about certain things and I'm not real tactful in the way I say them. I'm glad for your input, positive and negative, and that it helped you in some way.
Blessya'll
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Laura great thread :D
The only path to wholeness is to understand what and why you are blocked.
I always thought there was something very wrong with me.
Well there are things that I need to improve but at least after separating from N parent I feel like living now.
And thats a big improvement.......................
I am not forgiving or loving from a distance that is too difficult.
I am just removing myself as his doormat.(last conversation he referred to some other N family member treating me as a doormat)
My comment was that gentleness is often mistaken for weakness.
You see I do not even feel I must change him .He just does not get it.Why waste my time on him.
For all my loving kindness I have found N dad has no respect for love or gentleness or kindness.There are others in my life that treasure love and kindness.
I know this has been a good four months of my life.I find I do not care at all about what the N's are thinking.
oh I just got called outside to look at the sunset wow it was a beauty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am respecting myself for the first time in my life as an adult.
No one is looking over my shoulder and N dad is not in my head.
I can understand how this all happened only when he revealed his true self (which happened in May) and it was scary.
His true nature is scary. I can not say I forgive him but I will and do a little I can not say I love him but I do a little.
I hope this makes sense.All siblings and family have left him but the other N's in the family.
I AND MY FAMILY LIVE MAYBE SEVEN MINUTES AWAY FROM HIM.
PP Please do not let any introject from N's interfere with your talent and true self.My N dad once said my artwork was a waste of paper .Well it took me years and kind teachers that helped me get over that .Your gift is expressing self with words is wonderful.
Do not let anything stop you from honoring your gift.
MoonLight
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Laura: (great topic ) and Thanks for say so ... I'm glad you understood this..
God does have Greatness for those who continue to reach for his goodness.
I think people can be so short sighted and place blinders on those around them...
I can't begin to tell ya how much I LOVED this that you wrote! It is soooooooo true. Even from young ages, children begin stepping into what they were designed by Creator to become. Let no man stand in the way of God's GREATNESS within the human soul and spriit!
PPlant ( learn to love who you are, keep motivated with people who want you to succeed)
mother is still around and so this lesson will be learned with her.
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Thanks for this whole thread, Laura. Thanks for your powerful advocacy for childrren.
And especially this clarity:
A mother nurtures a child, lets that child think and behave with its own mind.
(You know another thing that made this thread so valuable to me? The way you started it by mentioning that it would be heated...that showed such caring of the people who are reading.)
Thank you!
(((((((((((((RM))))))))))))
Hops
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I stopped expecting approval a long time ago, with two N parents. In fact, I've sat on the other end of the spectrum for quite a long time, fearing telling them about good things that were happening to me in life.
Yeah they're probably livid with me, but so what? They're always livid with someone, and that it happens to be me (again) is no biggeee. I've also learned how and why not to instigate them though. Which is the only reason I think I'm feeling so much anxiety about meeting my brother/wife/and two kids for dinner again...I finally tapped into the feeling. Is this worrying necessary? Probably not. But it does make me feel better to be prepared for the worst, which would be them showing up on my door, for a "lecture" about respect, or some other nonsense. And if that happens, I'd call the police at this point - I told them I wanted no contact, that's really what I meant.
Hope this makes it a little bit clear for anyone who may have been confused by another post of mine on another thread. Also, it took me a bit to figure out why I was reacting as I have been. I'm afraid.
pb
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P:B:
I'm still a little confused....you mean, you're afraid you'd be sandbagged at the dinner by your brother bringing your parents? Would he do that to you?
Well, I think there's a script even for that worst-case scenario:
Brother, I'm glad to see you, but I'm afraid it won't work out under these circumstances.
I'll see you another time. Good night everyone,
and EXIT. Calm and head up.
Then they are left to stare at their plates and face that tricks backfire.
Hops
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Hops:
(You know another thing that made this thread so valuable to me? The way you started it by mentioning that it would be heated...that showed such caring of the people who are reading.)
Thank you for this confirmation. When I wrote that, letting people know that it was heated, I heard God say "yes, this is good" and now, you just confirmed it. Maybe you are not a follower of Jesus, Hops, but I believe I've seen you really set some Godly examples on this board. Your input is one of the main reasons I've stayed at times when I wanted to leave here.
~Laura
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:cry: :D :D (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Laura))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Thank you.
I find you a very brave person, RM.
hugs,
Hops
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P:B:
I'm still a little confused....you mean, you're afraid you'd be sandbagged at the dinner by your brother bringing your parents? Would he do that to you?
Well, I think there's a script even for that worst-case scenario:
Brother, I'm glad to see you, but I'm afraid it won't work out under these circumstances.
I'll see you another time. Good night everyone,
and EXIT. Calm and head up.
Then they are left to stare at their plates and face that tricks backfire.
Hops
No, I actually hadn't thought of that scenario hops (but thanks for mentioning it :))
I guess I should explain. In my family, anything you tell any other member or do with any other member (having dinner, for example) gets back to Mom at lightening speed. So, in having dinner with my brother, even if he doesn't bring up our parents, I do expect it to get back to mom one way (him mentioning he had dinner with me to her) or another (his wife or the two boys who are 6 & 8 mentioning it to grandma). Mom tells Dad, and a "rant" ensues - this is where they think of everything I'm doing to hurt them and talk about it in excruciating detail, filling in the parts they don't know or understand with their own made up details.. somewhere along the way, I can envision a hairbrained scheme to come see me evolving along the way (it's happened before). Being reminded of me tends to stir them up in other words, they are raging Ns. You might say I have a vivid imagination...or, you might just say I know them from experience. I don't know though, maybe they'll surprise me.
pb
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I'm so sorry, PB.
I'm very sorry they don't get you, or treat you kindly.
You deserve complete kindness.
Well, hell, if anybody spills the beans you're our PBean, and you can hold the line!
Maybe just giving this brother a big huge loving hug, and not trying to resolve things verbally, would be a relief.
Don't be afraid of dinner, doggone it you deserve to enjoy your food! :shock:
(((((PB)))))
Hops
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Hi PB,
Just an idea...
Go to Spencers and buy a fake (but real-looking) roach. If things get ugly at dinner, divert your brother's attention, drop in on his plate and then run out of the restaurant horrified...
Anyone have a Plan B?
Love, Beth
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Oooooooo.... somehow I don't think a plan B will be needed! :o :D
(((((((((Pb and Beth)))))))))
Much love,
Hope
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Hi all:
I'm feeling so firey about certain things and I'm not real tactful in the way I say them.
Your fire is inspiring, RM, and what I get from you mostly is just plain honest.
Penny: I think it's normal and natural and typical and usual etc for every child to want love and acceptance, not just approval, from our "parents" (and I'm with you RM, that term is not appropriate at all, in some cases). Some give up seeking that love and acceptance/approval, when it doesn't happen, and go on to act out and do all kinds of ridiculous stuff..... rebel, I guess. Others, keep trying and trying and trying for that love and acceptance/approval.....over and over and over.....hoping against hope it will somehow come....we will do that one right thing that will finally open their eyes and they will then.....after all.....at last......give what we most want and need.
Many people go on to seek that love and acceptance/approval from a spouse (often of similar traits/makeup as the devoid "parents") and spend great periods of life....doing the same performance thingy....getting the same unhappy result.
You may be 45 but you're not dead yet. As a matter of fact, you're coming alive now.....like a butterfly breaking out of a cocoon (or something equally poetic), it sure seems to me. You will write your book I bet!! And it will be a great success! And you will do it....not to please or get love or acceptance or approval from anyone.....except yourself because the fact is.....you don't need their love or approval/acceptance. You do just fine without it.
((((((Penny))))))
Beth: That roach plan!! Too funny! :lol:
:D Sela