Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 22, 2004, 09:46:41 PM
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so many times when people post with a 'handle' their posts are followed and remembered...but this often is a transitional time we are here.
When we move on, do we need people stating, but you once said----? Maybe/ maybe not.
And what about the established group of posters?
Unless newcomers and oldtimers are allowed to post anonymously then group dynamics take over, with some poeple having an overdeveloped voice, and others being stifled...
'Be our guest'...isn't that also a Disney song -Beauty and the Beast- what better metaphor for our experience?
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And what about the established group of posters?
Unless newcomers and oldtimers are allowed to post anonymously then group dynamics take over, with some poeple having an overdeveloped voice, and others being stifled...
People establish themselves by willing to come forward and joining in the discussion. Over developed/ underdeveloped - these are real issues in life to be worked out by each individual. Your self percieved anonymity is no less soft in its approach than if you offered a name. Your style is clear. The fact that you post anonymously as Guest offering nothing else speaks to me of arrogance. . Offering something that can be built upon - a ‘face’ - an identity- we are able to develop a real relationship, however short, and so decide for ourselves a level of trust and credibility, when advice and experience are offered. Otherwise it comes across imperialistic in its delivery.
Guess(t)
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Dear Guests:
There is no such thing as an overdeveloped voice at this board. And if you think there is, this probably isn't where you belong. The purpose of this board is to allow voices to be found and freely expressed when they have otherwise been stifled.
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An anonymous voice pales in comparison with a voice plus an identity in my view..when you post with your handle or name you take ownership of what you say and give people the opportunity to consider your input as more than just ..say maybe..anonymous cyber drivel.
To consider or ponder,
Nic..as guest! :wink:
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CC-Exactly my point.
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My sister-in-law is a detective, she reads through here occassionally but has never posted. We've discussed in detail how reliable the details are. How sincere the posters are. etc. She said to me, all these stories are so one-sided, so subjective. All you are getting is one side of every story, an yet every story has so many players. Her team has to interview sometimes hundreds of people to get to the truth. So the truth is not what we are on about here. It's how someone feels, and where they're at. And it's having and giving the freedom to post as guest, especially if they've been violated to the point of death, that it may take years before sufficient confidence is established to be secure enough to create a name and risk even this safe anonymous level of cyber intimacy. And who's to say that different names aren't one in the same person. I read a post by someone here referring to that exact question. It is possible and has been suggested before. What if someone posts at different times under different names. What if someone is offended and does a grand exit, and re-emerges the next day under a new name. I think the use of names or the use of guest is fairly irrelevant. It's the content that really matters. The only time the name matters if you want to start a witch hunt or a relationship. I weigh up the advice on it's own merits. I question whether the attachments are really the point, or even real for that matter. Who am I attached to? I like her comments. I don't like her comments. Maybe they're one in the same person. To call what someone posts cyber-drivel is so heartless and superficial just because they don't have a name. You obviously don't understand how a person could have been so violated that even this level of commitment seems threatening to them. And such thoughtless cheap shots doesn't reflect the sense of safety and mutual support and care I expected here. It surprised me. So I guess I'll continue as guest for a while longer.
guest
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There are so many guest postings, I don't know which to choose a reply, but, this is also for the one called "don't be so judgemental."
While no particular benefits are bestowed upon us willing to register and log on, it does provide a degree of identification to those reading our posts. Unless IP addresses are somehow traced through our log-on data and you are scared of the cyber boogieman, I don't understand the need to be known as "guest." If what one guest said is true that "anyone can rediscover their voice," after years of childhood abuse of any type you want to mention, then a simple sign on to a website procedure should be a snap.
I am not so sure ghostN's are posting on this site as guest or maybe even using multi-logged names, so much as just plain spineless, bored trouble-makers who fancy themselves therapists and even maybe think they are more internet savvy than the rest of us. It seems like quite often when a "button-pushing" post is made, it's from a guest. But, haven't we wasted enough of our life on jerks? I just cringe when I see some of you well-intentioned, loving, kind, genuine, intelligent and whitespirit-filled Nvictims waste your energy trying to explain and argue with these types.
You bet our childhoods were denied to us -- AND --------- YOU CAN'T GO BACK AGAIN, GUEST !!! If you had been N'd, you would know that. Some of us got cheated by monsters we called Momma and Daddy :twisted: -- THE ULTIMATE NO-NO. I don't believe in reincarnation, we are not going to pass this way again, and what happened wasn't our fault. There was/is no karma going on, there were/are actions of free will chosen by our parents that were wicked and they hurt us -- smacked us around. It wasn't our fault. No child ever did anything to not receive love from their parent. Yes, our baby voices were stolen, repressed and oppressed. We are mourning and dealing with the aftermath. I can't remember who, but one of our registered members said: "We must not consider it a privilege to enjoy life. Joy and peace don't only belong to others, we can have them to." All of the little kids still inside us are trying to find peace -- so, don't argue. If you want to read, read -- if you want to post, sign in. We've had a lifetime of tricks played on us, we're not interested in any more. :x
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Discounted girl, I have replied to your attack in don't be judgemental please. Learn to Live And Let Live will you.
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Interesting difference in communication between the Ns and the N victims of this world.
Nvictims say 'I' and 'we'
Ns 'You' and 'They'
Just check them out!
Nvictims take responsibility by talking from the point of view of 'I'. They share and include with the word 'we'.
Ns blame and accuse with the word 'you' and use unknown others as their source of 'rightness' (ie they don't take responsibility, they hold someone they perceive as greater than they are as the arbiter :roll: )
Interesting!
Makes it easy to tell one from the other - and shows a path for the N to follow if they are to find 'healing'.
Actually Ns don't need healing - it's their victims who need healing. N victimss want Ns to find a better way to live in the world (cos Nvictims think that the world would be a better place if Ns would stop damaging others). For the most part, Ns are perfectly happy being unhappy - they have no incentive to change - they just want the victims to be more accommodating to their will.
Ns - I don't mind you being as N as you like - but not in my backyard, not in my life, and not in reply to my posts. I don't want your advice or your comments. I don't want to hear the word 'you'. I don't want or need to have my buttons pushed or my cage rattled or my strings jerked. I don't want confusion and the goal posts changed every few minutes just so YOU YOU YOU can get your own satisfaction at the expense of others. Get the word 'nyah nyah ni nyah nyah' out of your vocabulary and then you might find your true voice.
Good luck to all Ns and hold onto your hats, Nvictims!!! The Ns come and the Ns go. Every now and then the Board gets rocked by these visitors but then the calm comes back and people get back to doing the working through they need to do. And those who are less experienced just now will find they recognise these N voices in an instant and they learn to keep away from them on the forum and in real life.
So Ns do us a favour every time they seek to express their voice here. We learn something. If the Ns stick it out and hold their tongue, they might begin to understand why and how their voices are experienced as damaging by the rest of us - and learn from us in turn. But Ns have to give up their arrogance and know how inadequate they truly feel about themselves before they can discover their humanity and just how truly lovable they can be. But, my goodness, to find the road to humility, that takes such courage...
R
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You bet our childhoods were denied to us -- AND --------- YOU CAN'T GO BACK AGAIN, GUEST !!! If you had been N'd, you would know that. Some of us got cheated by monsters we called Momma and Daddy :twisted: -- THE ULTIMATE NO-NO. I don't believe in reincarnation, we are not going to pass this way again, and what happened wasn't our fault. There was/is no karma going on, there were/are actions of free will chosen by our parents that were wicked and they hurt us -- smacked us around. It wasn't our fault. No child ever did anything to not receive love from their parent. Yes, our baby voices were stolen, repressed and oppressed. We are mourning and dealing with the aftermath. I can't remember who, but one of our registered members said: "We must not consider it a privilege to enjoy life. Joy and peace don't only belong to others, we can have them to." All of the little kids still inside us are trying to find peace -- so, don't argue. If you want to read, read -- if you want to post, sign in. We've had a lifetime of tricks played on us, we're not interested in any more. :x
For some reason, this fact (of our stolen, never to be redeemed childhood's) seems to disturb a lot of people who are posting on this board. It's true, but it has to be hushed up. Very telling, in my opinion.
Lizbeth
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Liz, I've sent you an e-mail clarifying a post on the Judgmental thread. You thought it was the infamous "guest" again, but it was me.
But see, that is what N's do, they sew discord, set up confusion and are so busy distorting everything that is happening around them that it is hard for anyone to know what's true or what's untrue.
Can we all see it clearly now? Think of a child growing up in this environment. You don't know what to believe and who to believe. Sure, your Mom might be great and honest and truthful, but you've got someone else there distorting, manipulating, twisting things around until you don't know whether you're coming or going. As a child, who's "self" isn't fully matured yet, who can deny how damaging this is? We can't even shake it as adults. (Well some of the brilliant ladies posting on this board have done a bang up job of ducking and dodging the crap being slung around). Look, I can't say enough about this subject.
You're right on the money seeing the connection.
Do you know, I find I am now apprehensive about responding to anything written by a "Guest"???
You know how N's like to set you up by asking you a seemingly innocent question, for advice or help, or try to engage you in a heart-to-heart talk, only to wait until you're open and vulnerable and then really let you have it?
I'm now wary. So there you have it, the N's ability to cause you to not trust yourself or anyone else.
Let's all hang in there and learn from what is happening here and in our lives. We are moving forward, and that's a great thing.
Jac
Jac, the ony way to deal with an N is to abide by the "NO CONTACT" rule. I guess that applies on boards as well.
Liz
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Ok..i'm not at my first N audit on this board or in my life for that matter.
So here goes,
Guest: I'm sorry you feel the way you do. Please continue to reflect, consider and ponder. Shields up...ignoring sequence commenced..
I'm out of this thread!
Ciao!
Nic :wink:
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I wonder if being able to filter what people say without knowing who they are and why they say it is not a good trait to learn, especially for people who have found themselves in more than one dysfunctional relationship?
Because it doesn't matter what people look like or who they say they are, it's how they make you feel that counts, something that many of us who got involved with pds forgot or never knew. So many people say there were problems almost from day one, yet we chose to ignore them, or didn't see them.
I don't think its worth going from a position of trusting where no trust was earned to trusting no one though, every relationship or exchange begins from a position of trust and not everyone lets us down.
Also sometimes I have felt let down because I had unreal expectations of the person or situation.
I know the answers are in me somewhere, to grow stronger and to believe I deserve a pleasant life.
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Sometimes people might like to post as "guest" because the anonymity it affords allows them in sharing more of themselves that they might be hesitant to if their identity(albeit still anonymous to the *true* identity) was known.
If I wanted to say certain things I don't really want to be attached to my known identity, I might post as guest, and when I wanted to be involved in a thread where the dialogue will be ongoing, I could use a recognizable handle.
No big deal. I really like the guest option of the board.
Someone mentioned that "guest" might be xN. Well, it is no more likely than a logged in, made up name being xN as well.
I think all should post as they wish. The guest option has been used responsibly for the most part(always exceptions) I can see, as well, in that there are not a flurry of regular abusive posts hiding behind the protection of "guest".
Cheers....
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I like the guest option on this site because all responses to guest's opinions are open to comments from all of the board. This is healthy.
No secret suggestions or comments to me as guest are possible through private messages, therefore it is for the guest an aspect of openess and seperatness which may be what is needed at this time in guests life. And if trust is eventually developed in entities here then this will likely change. Not at the moment though.
Also, there's no possibility for secret criticism's, needing to be emailed to management and adjudicated if you receive a private message telling uou off for speaking your honest opinion. And as guest there's no possiblilty of getting caught up in negative private message gossip about a particular poster who someone takes a dislike to and wants to enlist support.
Manipulative comments by posters, telling others to ignore this person because they're obviously an N, (basically forming a something similar to a medieval shunning party.) These comments have surfaced recently, and are published sometimes, but their influence is limited somewhat by a healthy number of guests. So I like the option of guest.
Guest
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If you are more comfortable posting as Guest, Guest, then that's what you should do. I would also take no part in 'secret criticisms' via PM or to the 'management'. Does this happen?
My problems with the 'Guest' name is that I'm not sure how many Guests there are and therefore I'm unsure which one is which. Maybe one day you will feel more comfortable and will be able to open yourself up a little. For my part, I have nothing to hide from the world!
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Lots of shouting down the guests happening here. Lots of wizard of oz characters egging each other on, and I wonder who's really at the other side of their screens. So much paranoia about guests. Why I post as guest is because my N found I'd been posting to this site and recognised me in my posts and that has made me very uncomfortable because I've wanted to get so far away from the criticisms. So I now come in as guest and I think there are probably lots of other valid reasons too why people post as guest. Railing at us with a whole lot of paranoid accusations and false assumptions that are to intimidate or get rid of guest is so wizard of oz. I have nothing to hide from the world either but I just want to protect myself from the N who once again has invaded my privacy. And N isn't going to stop me from contributing if I think I have something worth saying.
guest
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Why I post as guest is because my N found I'd been posting to this site and recognised me in my posts and that has made me very uncomfortable because I've wanted to get so far away from the criticisms. So I now come in as guest and I think there are probably lots of other valid reasons too why people post as guest.
I have nothing to hide from the world either
Well said, guest. I was thinking the exact same. There are
many valid reasons for posting as "guest" at times, that have absolutely nothing to do with "hiding something". I was disappointed to read that very broad assumption of others, and what seemed like a negative tone.
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Guest, I didn't mean to offend you and I'm sorry if I did. I just wanted to let you know that it's hard for us to give you feedback and help if we don't have a way of indentifying you from all the other 'Guests'. If you only need to express yourself ie. you're not actually seeking a response, then fine. You say that your N has already recognised you in your posts, won't he still be able to under your Guest name? I can understand why having your N invade your privacy here has made you retreat. But that's what they do, they won't let you have your own voice. That's why this board is here, to have your voice heard and to own it as well. It does take courage to stand up to Ns.
I wish you the best.
Karin.
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Karin he recognised my posts and learned my board name and so was able to call up and read all my posts about him. He's an N so of course he loved this reading about himself. He loved reading all the responses too. And got an understanding about my new strategies I'm putting in place to combat his control. And he rubbished so much of it. His only interest really seems to be if he can read about himself, typically N. I don't think I'll refer too much about him here in future but at the same time now he knows I don't post under any name I think he's lost interest because he can't read about himself and that seemed to be all he was interested in. He wasn't interested in any post that he wasn't the centre of. Rubbish was his reponse to heartbreaking stories of what N's have done to others and he said he wasn't interested, it's all rubbish. I've got a lot out of the certain contributors here and also from my own contributing here and have come along way, I now just want to be able to offer my perspective with the new babies coming here and some of teh more sensitive ones like you, if I think I have something of value to add that I think may have not been addressed. That's all. And if I perceive a new baby is being bashed about by some of the insensitive N oldies I want to speak up about that too. I don't want another Avery situation. Did anyone ever wonder what happened to Avery. She had been suicidal and depressed just before coming here and openly admitted her fragile state of mind. Come into my parlour said the spider to the fly. The N oldies were so comforting and encouraging till she got her voice and expressed a concern which was valid to her. And even that wasn't about herself but somebody else being hurt. She was always posting in a gentle encouraging way and look what happened. Do you remember? I hope she's okay and not gone back into depression or worse. And by the silence from the brutes who silenced her I doubt that they've given her or their bullying a second thought, beacause they still do it. Maybe she now posts as guest too, and would you blame her.
guest
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The reference to 'us and you' was telling. I don't think that my words of encouragment to someone in pain about the N in their life are received less because I don't have a handle, I sometimes think it's the opposite, because I'm not trying to impress anybody which I sometimes feel is the case, wrongly maybe, but it's what I sometimes think with some of the interesting characters here.
And as far as a need to express myself, yes that's right, when I read someones pain I want to let them know that I hear them and they're not alone and maybe offer some insight as guest. How you said it made it sound like guests only ever wish to express themselves without commitment or interest in anybody else. For me personally that's not true, I reply to exhort or encourage with no strings attached because I've been where so many of these posters have been.
That's why this board is here, to have your voice heard and to own it as well.
Karin.[/quote]
I own my voice so I don't agree with the myth that goes around here that suggests that coming on as guest you're not owning your own voice. I feel like you're saying that my voice isn't my own as guest. I don't have an identity crisis by being anonymous. I find most coments from guests to be quite compassionate and encouraging actually. And my responses as guest or whoever would only ever be to encourage so I see it as my choice 100%. I don't see why this bothers people so. This is my voice and I know who I am and what my motives are. I have had enough people in my life telling me how to express myself and how to be. I'm guest and comfortable with it. If you decide not to read me or like me that's fine, I'm probably not here for you. There are much more important issues on this board to attend, and people in real pain than to spend any more time on this 'guest bashing'. But I wanted to add my 2 cents worth.
Guest
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I'm sorry Karin the above I was replying to you and I didn't say Hi, so Hi Karin
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To Guess(t)
Your style is so clear to me, and I reckon I've a fair idea who you are, you so often throw the word arrogant around when referring to others but have never been able to look at your own reflection in the mirror in this regard and see you are marinated in arrogance from head to toe. This thread needed to be opened up because much of what 'guests' say is heard and appreciated by the people they respond to and often acknowledged or haven't you noticed. Why doesn't that surprise me. You're too bitter and resentful an dried up emotionally up to notice anything other than your own needs. A bit of IQ in there,a whole load of cunning and manipulation and not much else. I imagine you are one lonely SOB. And you talk about guests making it impossible for you to develop a real relationship with. Are you insane. This is the net. When did you last have a picnic or go shopping with one of your real relationships from here. You're putting on such a face but occasionally you slip up. And so often when you're having fun ridiculing and demeaning other posters, and I know your style so well, the same groupies follow behind and get in on the act because they get sucked in by your superficial charisma and believe whatever lines you make up. And I read them laughing at the criticisms that you make-up which are meant to hurt others and they seem to loose their awareness of why they're laughing at people or more importantly why they're really here. I thought it was to help and encourage and support along the way. Because your miserable life is so lonely, and these abstract relationships are the only real relationships that you have, and because you are so nasty and demanding, you are threatened, THREATENED simply by the fact that you don't have someones name. It's that important to you. This is your world, isn't it. I'm staggered by how trivial an issue this is and how transparent you are. If you had ONE REAL relationship, you'd know that what you have here WITH ANYONE IS NOT A REAL RELATIONSHIP. Its a forum for the voiceless, the wounded and we share experiences and we grow and hopefully we recover by getting encouragement from one another, and then even better we get a life and move on with real people to hold and hug. Nowhere have I read that this is meant to be a forum for dissemblers and nasties like you. Who here do you trust enough to give your address to and your real name and your phone number? Is there one such person here who you have done this with? Will you be going on holidays with person?So much for a real relationship theory. These are abstract relationship, but I think you already know that and just got on with the real relationship crap as a sophist would. It's just a game to you and when you insult somebody it's also a game, it's like score one for you. What you say here is total nonsense. There was absolutely nothing arrogant about the opening statement, it was in my opinion a valid brief, unlike mine, very acceptable position and well done guest for opening this thread. Can't wait to read what your groupies have to say, haven't got to them yet but I'm sure it'll be just as cruel and noxious and critical and harsh and selfish and unforgiving and missing the purpose of being here as yours was. I've got one a bit of advice for you. What the world needs now is Love. What the posters on this board need is love and if you don't have any inside you to give then why are you here. If you're here to get love even if abstract disconnected love is the only type of love you can access at the moment then that's fine, learn to get love here. Without being a put-down smart-ass. You've got a the gift of the gab, use it lovingly, you'll get love back. I hope your not so attached to the rush of the verbal joust that it's like a drug to you. Be honest and open about your needs without trying to discredit and destroys others and always putting others down. You don't need to be nasty to get attention which is what you always do. And you got my attention once again and I sure recognise you whole dance by now. You should learn to hold your peace and give love. You need to learn to be nice or your gonna be an even lonelier person in 10yrs time because people from here are gonna move on and get healthy and get lives. Where do you want to be then?
Guest
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:!:
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started the original thread, I think it's been very interesting to discuss.
I am definitely more open as guest when I don't have to construct a consistent identity- so much has happened in the last year I know I am often inconsistent and going back and forth. I'm still adapting.
I'm just interested what I have to learn ( or contribute ) at this stage.
I do have several friends in real life who were originally internet contacts!
But few of my friends understand narcissism as people here would, and some of the things I've said here I wouldn't tell anyone I wasn't sure would understand it and empathize.
I believe in karma too Seeker, re post for group hug. Also that we can grow because of as well as despite these trials and traumas.
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Just giving my vote in the guest item: I have a heck of a time relating to a Guest. And when I write to a guest I never know if it is the guest I wrote to who posts back to me--or some other guest posting. Just too confusing.
Me, personally, I almost never respond to anyone who signs on as Guest. Somehow it just lacks connection. Maybe it is just me but I have a hard time with it.
:?