Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Plucky on November 06, 2006, 01:04:59 AM
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This thread is for people who for some reason are feeling that they ought to have been over something but are not. While I have lots of these things in my life, I thought about this because I get the impression that Moonlight still has a lot of grieving to do about her twin, lots of things trigger her memories, but then she apologises for having brought it up. I have posted responses that made Moon feel guilty about talking about her twin, and I did not mean to do that. I think you are over something when you are over it, and not before.
So this is meant to be a place to bring things you thought you were over, you think you should be over, and you are not over, and how you feel about that fact.
Plucky
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Hi Plucky
I realised recently even when you are over something there is still sadness from time to time, I don't know if you'd call that grief, but some things were just too difficult to put away.
I feel that over my miscarriages, I look at the two angel baby paintings I put up and there are no tears, and a strong feeling of love, but the sadness of two missed opportunities will always stay with me somewhere.
We are told grieving is a process, and I think it is, though the edges are more blurry than we expect; but i don't think it necessarily has a resolution beyond acceptance.
There are some things I will always feel a little sad and regretful about even though my life has moved on and I am happy.
Accepting that has been a big thing for me this year- there is no 'should be' there just is what is...and my response to it.
Sounds more zen than it feels some days!
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WOW ((((((((((((((((((((((PLUCKY))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
MY TWIN WAS KILLED IN A CAR AND MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT IN 1980 WE WERE 27.
I went blank zero I WAS NO SELF ZERO INSIDE..................................
Getting over for me has been done he now lives within my heart and I think mostly of the wonderful love we shared.
One reason I JOKE around is because we were like a comedy team we lobbed jokes back and forth and knew unconditional love or what goes for that here on planet Earth.
No other person in 3-d or cyber space could trigger feelings of my dear twin brother because we were one.
We were one we were like that........... twinness..............I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN TWINNESS...................I am grateful to be a twin to have known such love.
His love breathes within me no stopping that.
I was put on xanax and slept for two weeks right after ...................I did not leave my house for a year.
I grieved for ten long years off and on.AWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Plucky there is no guilt regarding my twin brother only the wish that we could have grown old together .
I will never stop wishing my twin were alive with me .But I grieved alone and with T's and with my hippie friends in the desert throwing rocks into a stream screaming "I want my brother "over and over until I could scream no more and my friends let me do that.I have grieved with Mr moon and my dearest sis in law.
I am as "over"as one can be when one has such a loss.
AWWWWWWWWWWWWW Plucky you have never ever triggered guilt in me ever I can talk about my twin brother so you will know him better he had a poet's soul.
He would have made a great journalist .He was funny and he played chess with genius and when he dove into a swimming pool he was like a graceful seal.
He could read Verlaine and then head straight for a comic book.
I do love him and do miss him .But most of all he is in my heart pocket where only love dwells.
Heck me saying I am sorry has to do with the feelings of unworthyness And that was from a N parent.
I feel guilty for ww2 and I was not even born yet where did all those feelings of worthlessness come from ??????
There's the physical abuse and that I have done a lot of work on.
When my twin brother was hit by a car I was home and my d was 2........... we were asleep I had the phones unplugged .It happened in the morning.
I heard a voice in a dream saying the door is opening the door is opening and then I had the only black and white dream I ever had My dearest and I were walking in a Cathedral walking and walking we talked not with words but our minds knew what we were saying Then he turned and the dream had the only color his blue blue eyes and mine He had to walk on he said he could not let go of my hands I could not let go of his hands but we had too he walked on to the lighter part of the Cathedral and I had to turn and come back the way I had come....................................... alone for the first time I knew what being alone meant.
I learned the time I had the dream was when the accident happened.
The grieving got to a point where I understood I was not doing my dearest twin honor by staying stuck in that place .
I learned to really show love because of the loss of my twin brother I know life is short and I am sure love is the most important experiance and my loved ones know they are well loved.
And that is a good thing.I hope this will let you understand that I have gone though not around .................................
Love and more love
Moonlight p.s. I do not believe I am hiding feelings I am certainly not the only one in the world to know loss.It happens everyday.................
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Write))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
So good to hear from you .
Acceptance yes life pushes you on and you go with it
bend with the wind
not to break just to bend.
Love to you
m
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he had a poet's soul
and so do you.
Your words are the most beautiful, they are balm and pure love.
he is in my heart pocket where only love dwells.
And we see from them why you are so beautiful and have such a huge soul, for it is two souls, and I think you explain twinness perfectly.
not to break just to bend.
and how about that for timely ( timeless ) advice!
My love to you too. You are extraordinary, Moon.
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We went to a wedding on Sat...as I watched the father of the bride walk the bride down the aisle I realized - I am not over not having parents. :(
I grieved that all night Sat and some of Sunday, and I think I'm still grieving a bit more today.
Thanks Plucky, great thread.
(((((((((((((moon))))))))))))))) ((((((((((((write))))))))))))) ((((((((((((((plucky))))))))))))))))
hugs all,
bean
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Bean awwwwwwwwwwwww bean
I want that for you I want you to feeeeel how much you are beloved here and right now
Weddings birthdays wow I could not celebrate my birthday for years.............................
I know the feeling its OK to just feel it .................
biggest hug to you bean sweet bean
love to you thank you for the hug
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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We are told grieving is a process, and I think it is, though the edges are more blurry than we expect; but i don't think it necessarily has a resolution beyond acceptance.
There are some things I will always feel a little sad and regretful about even though my life has moved on and I am happy.
Accepting that has been a big thing for me this year- there is no 'should be' there just is what is...and my response to it.
Write, this is a good point. Be 'over' something is not binary I guess. Maybe it is like walking along a teeter totter and at some point it tips to the side of not being such a big deal. Acceptance, not only of what happened, but of your lingering and perhaps forever feelings about it.
Moon, your hurt was so big, I just don't know how I would have ever gotten over anything like it. I think it is just wonderful that you two had each other. Wonderful. And the other side of wonderful is of course awful that this was lost. I guess a crater that big in your heart will always ache to some extent. I just don't want you to feel that you ought to hurry up and be over it, or that others have such bigger pains, etc. You don't have to be brave. You've done wonders to have such a lovely life.
Penelope, thanks for your comments. You reminded me of a thing I miss too - proper parents. The love and cherishing of a father.
I am overly impressed when I see a good father in action. In awe, and a little envious.
I know I have many areas like this, but I cannot seem to get in touch with them. I need to expose them, so I know where my sore spots are. Are you aware of yours? When I look into my mind to find them, it is as if I see the shadow of something that just hid itself.
I just love threads with lots of hugs!
(((((((((((((everyone)))))))))))))((((((((((((((you too)))))))))))))))(((((((((especially you)))))))))))))
Plucky
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I just love threads with lots of hugs!
I am sitting here hugging myself reading!
I don't have a source of affection in my personal life, though of course the kids and seniors I work with are pure love.
That's what I'd like next, to date someone, just something uncomplicated and fun.
I think I may have put that grief to rest about being unloved/ unloveable...I do love myself enough finally for the times when there's no one else to love me.
Not having had a parented childhood- that's very tough; we could grieve that in little ways forever, there are so many reminders all life through, all our special life events mean less because our parents don't share them I guess, there's a break in our 'circle of life'...
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I think I may have put that grief to rest about being unloved/ unloveable...I do love myself enough finally for the times when there's no one else to love me.
This is one of mine too. Poor unloveable me. What is wrong with me. And part of me just expects it and makes it happen.
Plucky
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Hey Plucky and bean and write
I do think you are right about grieving ............................
It's like you are hanging on to life with your fingertips with the sea waves slamming you from behind.
Then the waves get less and less intense until you have some rest and when you feel that feeling of sadness you know what it is in an instant and let yourself feel it.
And it passes and we can feel love the honor that flows here and the beauty of the world ............we hear the birds singing again.
I would rather have intense feelings and felt so much love and then lost it than never felt it at all .That is a blessing I am grateful for.The love is never lost.
Imagine a youth with their head down so sad looking at 2 cups of wine that has spilled over and
finally the youth turns around to discover 3 cups that are full and were behind them all along.
lemons into lemonade.
love and so much more to all here blessings ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
moonlight
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Imagine a youth with their head down so sad looking at 2 cups of wine that has spilled over and
finally the youth turns around to discover 3 cups that are full and were behind them all along.
I guess the silver lining to the pain we had as children would be the self-awareness as aduits. I wish I could just get over it!
Part of realising just how wrong my upbringing was, is to mourn what could have been. It's just not fair!
And as much as I wish not to, I resent people who seem to have had what I missed. Parental love and acceptance. Safety and support. I do not want to hate the golden girls/boys of the world but I do. Their comfort with themselves, their ability to depend on someone, their easy knowledge that they are loved, their lack of desperation. I don't want to be like this.
Plucky
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((((((((Plucky))))))))))
It is harder this time of year?
Only thing I can think of is to make plans now that will help to offset the loss, the lack...
Apart from the lost nuclear family dream (I agree that's #1, so let's set it aside for now),
what things have brought you the most happiness in life? The happiest or most hopeful
moments? Can you name three? Or six?
If you can, can you take your calendar and get creative, plan specific dates and events
or activities (even if on your own) that are related to these, so might stir your hidden happiness?
That way you could move through the season with regular doses of inner pleasure,
to offset the inevitable bursts of melancholy. I hope you can...I sure hope it for you.
Hops
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Plucky,
Portia said:
Hey Plucky, I think if you dig deep enough into anyone’s life, you’ll find sadness, envy, grief, imperfection …. people may look like they have it all, but I bet they don’t, if they’re very honest about it (or if you look very closely).
I think that P is right about this. No family is perfectly happy, but they either do a great job of faking it to the outside world, or they have found a way to stick together and support one another even through the most difficult times. I think the latter would be what we would all wish for.
Probably about 8-10 years ago there was a family with 2 parents and 7 of their 9 children travelling through our state in a mini-van. Their car ran over a chunk of metal in the road which pierced the gas tank and caused the car to explode into a burning inferno. The parents were able to release their seatbelts and get out of the front seats (they had severe burns, but survived), but the children--ages 6 mos to about 12--could not get out fast enough and all died in the fire. People on the scene tried to help, but all they could hear were the screams of the children and no way to get to them.
I tell this story because every time I feel that my life is bad, I think of that family and what they lost. The father was a minister, so of course believes that his children are all in a good place with God. But how do you survive that? To this day I wonder how those parents get through day-to-day remembering the screams of their babies that they could not save. I don't know that I could have.
I grieve for the family I didn't have as a child, and the loss of the family I thought I had with my xh. I still keep the faith that I will one day have a family again. That there will be grandchildren to love and enjoy and a mate that truly loves me. I can't think any other way or I would give up.
Moon,
I love how you express the deep love and loss of your twin brother. You were so blessed to have had him in your life. He left way too soon, but you have such wonderful memories and I envy you that.
Hugs to all,
Brigid
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Hi All
The story of that family is so hard Brigid. My family : example last night we got a new TV because the old one was over 12 years old.
Mr moon could not move the old one and our oldest d and her new fella came over .I made dinner and my d 's new fella and Mr moon talked away about electronics ,
while my 2 d's were talking away .Seeing my d so happy with her guy and little moonlet with her earphones on dancing around and everyone feeling safe and good oh
I know there is goodness after what we have been though.
Last year my oldest d was assaulted by exbf hit in the head (HE WAS A BOXER AND IS A BIG GUY) and she escaped and drove to our house and into my arms.
She had to go to the hospital the exbf had broken an artery in her head and she had to have surgery .She was in ICU
Brigid that was what I meant .When she was in ICU THEY WOULD NOT LET ME SLEEP IN HER ROOM .I did not leave the hospital and just outside the door I slept on the benches but ended on the carpeted floor it was more comfortable.I had to be as physically close to her as they would let me.The police were called there were police guarding her room in case the perp tried to get her.
It was unbelievable to have my darling one hurt this way.The perp just got out of jail and there is another round of the courts and all of that but the only thing I care about is my d's health which is good.She was not sexually assaulted he hit her because she told him she wanted to visit a girlfriend.She is seeing a T off and on.
We have talked and talked how could this have happened to us????Bad things happen to good people.I am so glad she wanted to move in with mom and dad for a year.
She started to feel so much better the nightmares have stopped and then she wanted to move in to a condo with her girlfriend and is finishing college and has a part time job.She knows That I am always there for her always.I sometimes hate the perp so bad but I DO NOT BRING UP WHAT SHE HAS BEEN THOUGH unless she wants to.
Yes there is healing and this nice boy a lot like Mr moon at that age has come into our lives................................It was so hard
This was a nightmare.
But here we are a year later and we have gone though this together and are OK.
It was so hard for my D she is so brave and bright she came back home to live and just moved into a condo Sometimes when she had nightmares
She wanted me with her and I rubbed her back and sang softly to her Doris Day songs and other sweet songs until she fell asleep.My sweet one
was so hurt I am crying now not so brave We could have lost her.
moonlight
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((((((((((((((((((((Moon)))))))))))))))))))))
Bad things do happen to good people.
I'm glad you had joy in your life last night Moon. 8)
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Hey P
I hope I have done all the right things for my children I told her when she was dating the exbf I thought he was no good.
But she thought he was OK.We are OK now .I just am trying to get out of the crisis mode like
"are my sweeties going to get hurt I think and worry about that a lot"
I am working on that feeling and after last night and all of us together and my darling is OK and that is helping so much.
But still I have never felt so much hatred for another being and with my own child abuse issues I found my way here .......................
thanks P
I am OK now
love ,
moonlight
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Advertising – soaps – social conditioning stuff – real people are not like that. Real people all have problems and all find life difficult in one way or another. Remove the advertising - or the illusion - and the envy goes too.
Hear hear P. I got so mad when I had my feminist "consciousness raising" that I've never again been able to absorb media uncritically. Doesn't mean I'm mad at the TV all the time, but I constructed a very strong inner tape that counteracts the trance. So, when I see my faves, Susan Sarandon and Diane Keaton, selling cosmetics, I am disappointed. But then I watched the Keaton one again and realized the script was quite strightforward and that she lets her wrinkles show and is delighted to be herself. So that, plus the Dove campaign, are hopeful signs there's beginning to be blowback. Aging boomers don't like being told they're ugly and useless now, so I think we'll be some feisty sexy old gray panthers. I hope the next generation notices, since they're hammered so hard wit the images.
Whoops, this is a total detour as you were talking about the culture's advertising the Cleavers. But I guess it's all the same process. An overidealized image that noone can achieve without hiding and stuffing themselves. Doesn't mean that a healthy family would never smile and cuddle, but they'd also have their off days! It is idiotic for the media to not be more creative. I love the subversive shows and ads...they're out there.
Moon, you bring such joy talking about your family. They are so lucky all of them, to have you. Your love and ability to feel so happy to see them happy...you are like the polar (lunar :)) opposite of an N. Thank you for sharing these stories. I am so glad your D who was assaulted is okay. Horrible experience for all of you, but it's clear it's brought you even closer as a family.
Hugs,
Hops PS--I wear cosmetics and love to look good. It's just that the anorexic 14 y/os in advertising hurt us, I think. So actually it's great to see middle aged women getting some space! Next, let's look for more ads with alternative family structures.
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Moon,
Sorry I got confused regarding the hospital situation. I thought you were referring to when she was an infant. But it doesn't matter how old they are, does it? We want to be there to hold them and protect them when they are hurting. I'm so sorry for what she went through, but she was so lucky to have her Moon family to support her. It is wonderful to hear that she once again feels safe and secure enough to live on her own and can trust a new relationship.
Try not to be sad when thinking of that time. I know--easier said than done--but you stuck together as a family and I guarantee it made you stronger and brought you closer. That's the way families are suppose to work. Sometimes I think it's a fairy tale, but you are proof that the real thing exists. Bless you and all your moon beams.
Hugs and love,
Brigid
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Brigid my oldest is 28 and she was in hospital a year ago and is doing so well now it amazes me sometimes
Also my younger d is 14 and when she was born she weighed 5 pounds and lost weight and had to stay in hospital a few extra days.
Well no need to wallow They are two bright and shiny darling and my oldest said mom this happened to me at the same age as when you lost
your twin we both went though hard stuff at the same age but we are OK now huh.
I said yes sir reeeeeeeeeeeee
love to all
P.S speaking of aging baby boomer's Emmy Lou Harris is just about the cutest thing around...........................
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I loooooooove Emmy Lou! Voice like an angel.
I went to see her once in a very small hall, sat at a table right in front.
She's my gray-haired hero! (Pretty foxy, too.) :lol:
Hops
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jac I did not become strong til I came here thank you
moon
Love to you
((((((((((((((((((jac)))))))))))))))))) :D
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jac..............................I got to go pick up moonlet at school she is in the 8th grade I can not believe it..................................
And then she is coming with me to vote 8)
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))
moonlight