Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: tony001 on November 14, 2006, 08:22:53 AM
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Last night my Mom came to visit. She's narcissistic but not as bad as my stepdad. I was telling her about Operation Christmas Child, it's a program put on by Graham Ministries. You fill a shoebox with things a child from a third world country might want or need for Christmas, enclose a check for $7.00 to cover shipping costs, and then drop it off at a designated church. So I finished my box and told my Mom about the program. (I menitoned a story I read on the OCC website about a child who received a toothbrush and toothpaste who had never brushed her teeth before.) Did she say "I'm proud of you for doing something so selfless." or "That's a great program." or "How sweet"? No. She said "Our neighbor tried to get me to go to India with him last year to help Tibetan refugees. I was afraid of terrorism, but I think I shall go next year. I will be on a team of medical personnel helping refugees. Some of these children don't even know how to use a toothbrush." Keep in mind my mother has NEVER done any kind of charity or volunteer work.
She took something that was about me and turned it into something about her. I mean my act of charity is REAL, it's really happening. Her act of charity is a FANTASY. But deserves the spotlight. I also found it interesting that she took a fact she gleened from my comments and used it in her comment as if it had originated from her infinite wisdom.
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in some contexts Nism is funny- and I hope you remind her of her pledged trip to teach people to use toothbrushes next winter!
Covert charity giving isn't really an N thing- why do it if you can't get every ounce of attention out of it....
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in some contexts Nism is funny- and I hope you remind her of her pledged trip to teach people to use toothbrushes next winter!
Covert charity giving isn't really an N thing- why do it if you can't get every ounce of attention out of it....
That is SO true. If my mom ever went to do relief work in another country we would never hear the end of it. She would probably believe she deserved the Nobel Peace Prize. The sad fact is that she probably believes she deserves the prize just for THINKING about going to Tibet to help refugees. I'll be sure to follow up on her mission to bring dental hygeine to the children of Tibet. LOL
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Hi Tony,
I understand this. my mother is the quickest topic changer in the west! She always invalidates everthing that I feel or experience.
One time, one of her neighbours was held up and she called me to tell me how upset she was and how horrible it must have been and she went on and on and on. When i suggested that she call the neighbour or at least make a visit (she was so upset and she did not even call the neighbour???) she just continued with her rambling (because she was the most upset person in the world). i reminded her that her neighbour was a psychologist and had tools necessary to make a recovery and i also pointed out that I was the victim of a home invasion as well (a few years prior) and that time does heal these wounds.
She informed me that I was young and so what I experienced could not have been that bad. Her neighbour was older and older people feel these things more.
There you go. It's better just to say nothing about yourself!!
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older people feel these things more.
ARRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Hopalong
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I think you make a great assessment of some classic N-ish behavior Tony. Her fantasies are more important than your reality. The thing with the toothbrush strikes me as a subtle insult. The stuff you do isn't valuable until she goes over there to teach them how to use it. She takes the limelight and manages to put you down in a couple of quick sentences.
My father is a master at this kind of stuff. I can mention something that I have done, and he will automatically "one up" it. Sometimes it gets really weird. In a recent conversation I mentioned I had just visited an interesting museum on a trip through the midwest. He immediately counters with "if you are going to go to a museum, it needs to be ...." and he goes on to describe in detail a place he has never even been. It's just something he read about in a magazine or travel guide. His fantasies are more important than my "reality". Taken in itself, the conversation isn't such a big deal, but if this is the only kind of interaction we experience with our parents?
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My mom gave an old computer to a family once and talked about it for ages... like no one had ever done it before and she had saved the family... She also always says sheis going to give to charity or do charity work or such... but when it boils down to it, she is too selfish to give away what is "hers." This week I got a box from her... things I bought and didn't have room to carry back in my suitcase (just a small Priority-box size full of this and that). I left them at her house as she said it was no bother to send them to us. Of course, that was back in July. So I got them this week. She had added in one thing... some cutout letters she made with her card making supplies. She asked me daily if I had received the package and I was supposed to be soooooooo excited when I did. The tiny favor I asked her to do turned into an, "I sent you and the kids a box" (of MY stuff... 4 months later) and I was supposed to jump up and down with joy.
My MIL sends the kids stuff just for fun and we don't have to play a game of being so thrilled about it (we usually are, though, because she finds fun, cool stuff that we can't find here).
OK, enough of my venting. Thanks for opening the floodgates, Tony.
Love, Beth
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There you go. It's better just to say nothing about yourself!!
I think you hit the nail on the head. I try to limit talking about myself in front of certain family members that way I avoid negative jabs, one up man ship and judgement.
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I got so fed up with the conspicuous charity of Ns that I actually wrote a hymn about it. This hymn has never been performed. It was inspired by one too many after-sermon coffees with the revoltingly self-satisfied... Read with caution; it is EXTREMELY sarcastic.
"Over There"
In a land across the sea,
People dwell in misery.
For their plight I deeply care;
They are safely Over There.
As I drive to work each day,
I pass a homeless man, each way.
I give him all that I can spare -
He is also Over There.
Over There, Over There
Look at me, how much I care!
I'm so loving and so fair,
As long as you stay Over There.
My downstairs neighbor's very sad;
She's all alone, and times are bad.
But if I help when none can see,
No-one can admire me!
She came to church the other day;
I looked at her and turned away.
If I help in her distress,
Who on earth would that impress?
Over There, Over There
Look at me! See how I care!
I'm so loving, I'm so fair
But damn your hide.... STAY OVER THERE!!!!!!
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Ahhhh storm,
I am wryly laughing. Did you really write that? That is fabulous...
Yes, why do something if it isn't seen????
Sorta on the same subject... some years ago, remeber when the slogan about Random Acts of Kindness came out... My husband and I were on a driving trip. We went througha toll in Delaware or around there and I said, let's pay for the person behind us, just 'cause...
Well, the person behind us zoomed by, driving like an asshole into the horizon :)
And the point to the story is??????
Love, Beth
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Yeah, I did. Sorry if it's too long and difficult for everyone here to understand. :P :P :P :P :P [Edit in: we need a smiley that thumbs its nose. Just because.]
Oh - correction - it's never been performed in public. It's been sung and played quite a bit, privately.
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Now on a serious note:
Maybe the person behind you was frightened by the kindness and thought you might be going to 'try something'.
Sad, but not impossible. Especially if it was a woman traveling alone - which of course I have no idea about.
I'd be frightened if someone did that for me - given how rarely I've experienced any kindness that didn't have some kind of major price tag attached to it.
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Storm~LOVE THE POEM/HYMN!
I think random acts of inconspicuous kindness are what makes us truly grown up. Every singhle thing we give away comes back to us via some circuitous route, there's a balance of that in this universe I am convinced.
I'd be frightened if someone did that for me - given how rarely I've experienced any kindness that didn't have some kind of major price tag attached to it.
That's where I'm at now- learning to let go and let other people help/ love me in turn...that's harder- much harder.
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Never did think of that. It was actually funny... my husband and I watched the person blast past us and then weave in and out of traffic passing people... so I don't think it was that...But I can most definitely see your point.
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I've driven like a bat out of hell on a few occasions when I thought I was being 'tracked'. I used to put in a lot of long business trips alone behind the wheel, and every now and them I'm pretty sure I was 'followed with intent'. I'd take evasive action pretty aggressively - figured either I'd get away from whoever it was, or, if a cop pulled me over, that would scare my 'tail' away. [Friends I've transported to train stations and airports - when they were in a hurry - are convinced that in a previous life I was a taxi driver in Rome :mrgreen:]
But probably you just got an N [oh joy], or someone in a godawful hurry.
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Thanks Write...
yeah... it is hard. at the moment, in realspace, i'm not exactly up to my neck in kind folks, though, and that makes it even harder to know when to... unclench.
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Oh, please don't mention driving in Italy... I amde it through three years without an accident. I deserve anaward and a lifetime supply of valium!!!
Why did you think someone would be following you, storm?
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It happens all the time, beth. Where I live now, they caught a murderer who worked by pulling up behind women who were traveling alone, flashing his headlights to get their attention, and pointing at their car as if there was something wrong with it. If they believed him and pulled off, he'd offer to take them to a service station... and that was it.
He was caught only a couple of years ago.
I drove the exact same corridor where he found his victims as part of my business travel, and both here and on I-95 I had occasions when a man, or men, would pull up behind me and flash their lights and pull alongside and point at my car... fortunately I know enough about cars that I knew nothing was wrong with mine. But they'd sometimes stay on my tail, and I had to shake a couple of them off pretty fiercely on occasion, and once I ended up driving to a state police barracks, just to get rid of them.
To give this perspective, I was making the trip every four to six weeks for about three years, and then I was making another, longer trip twice weekly for about two years. This happened maybe four or five times in all those trips... say four times in maybe 60 trips. One fifteenth of the time!
But it was very clear to me that something not good was going on. Funny, when you are young - you just deal with these things. Thinking about it now, I'm more frightened than I ever was then.
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I taught at an inner city high school in San Antonio... I think there were a lot of times I shoudl have been more frightened (like during the shootings in the parking lot and when we found a guy murdered, the escaped convicts running by). I don't think I could NOT freak out now. Also, I was not careful about the people I met... a bit naive. I would bet everything I have that this one crazy guy was a psychopath. He would call me and call me and freaked me out so bad. I lived all alone. He used anything he could to try to get me to hang out with him. Yes, there were some creepy people and I do believe you... I was just curious...
Love, Beth
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OMG, Storm. I know that area and I know that case.
I know one of the people who participated in cracking it.
I drove the same stretch weekly for a long time.
Glad you stayed safe.
Hops
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Hi this is my first post here as I need to address my own narcissistic tendancies towards my partner and in the 5 minutes I have been reading these posts I suddenly realised exactly where my own narcissism comes from ... My Mother the narcissist from hell!
I can remember a childhood full of her disapproval and taunts of "Retard" (Despite being considered extremely intelligent for my age by a myriad of sources) but what sticks in my mind is the visit she made to my home only a few years back, one holiday visiting me and my partner, I had done the MENSA tests for a bit of fun and was taken aback when they offered me membership based on an IQ of 155, this I showed her and made a humourous comment that I wasn't that retarded after all, the look of absolute hate and thunder on her face was hilarious and whilst she dismissed the achievement with nothing more than a snort she instantly changed the subject to her new £60,000 ($113,238.90 USD) RV...
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at the moment, in realspace, i'm not exactly up to my neck in kind folks, though, and that makes it even harder to know when to... unclench.
yes, I've been through those dry spells too, it doesn't feel reassuring does it. But you will meet more people, just keep being in places where they'll see you at your best and they get attracted in.
I was working last week and they muddled the times up so an art therapist was there and they didn't tell me but she missed her group so I could work mine. If I'd known there was no reason not to incorporate the two! But anyway I thought she was a visitor and drew her in to my group and she sang for everyone, told me afterwards for the first time in 60 years; she was full of enthusiasm and invited me to go eat lunch.
She seemed so lovely and to have overcome quite a shy nature to be so outgoing I said yes, and we had a delightful lunch and she's joining our writing group next month. So I was really glad I went even though I had a hundred things to do for the move.
But it did make me wonder- where were all these wonderful people when I was lonely and needing to feel a few connections?!
the look of absolute hate and thunder on her face was hilarious
hilarious and hurtful I am sure.
I have seen that N look of thunder- it's like a mask slips isn't it, just for a second.
I was introduced to my N friend's N mother once and she gave me such a look I was actually fearful for a moment. It was like on a horror movie when someone slips into their monster character for a couple of seconds and no one else sees it....
Welcome and well done/good luck addressing your own behaviours you don't like.
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Beth, my Mom is constantly making a big deal about nothing at all. She was having a yard sale with some of her siblings and said, "Come on and bring the kids! We're gonna be boiling peanuts, grilling hotdogs, and having a big time." I get there, there are no peanuts boiling (I think boiled peanuts is a southern thing?) and the only "grilled" hot dogs are a pack laying on the kitchen counter to microwave. This must be the grandiosity (Children of the Self-Absorbed by Nina Brown) the book talks about.
Stormy- GREAT POEM! That is awesome! Can I print it and show it to some people? I would never try to publish or claim it as my own.
GAP-You're right. Just don't say anything. I read in my book that you should never give an N too much information.
Stuey-I can't believe your own mother would call you a "retard". That is simply horrible.
I keep having this funny thought running through my mind of my mom saying in the most uppity Katherine Hepburn accent "Next year I shall travel to Tibet. I shall be working with a medical team helping those poor, dear children to brush."
I dropped of my Operation Christmas Child box at the designated church. There were two busy-body looking ladies waiting to receive the boxes. They asked me to fill out a form, I noticed it had blanks for name, address, denomination, etc. I said "Why do I have to fill that out?" She said "We want to know who you are." I said "I don't want to be recognized for my good deeds. Please fill out my form for me and write ANONYMOUS" A good deed done with a reward in mind is no good deed at all, its called a trade.
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Hi Tony,
I'm always mildly unnerved when someone forcefully tells me that I'm "going to have a great time."
How do they know?
I'd rather someone just told me what the elements are in a friendly way...and let me have my own experience.
My mother has a habit that is fingernails on my inner blackboard...she loves to muse aloud, presenting it as fact, what someone else feels or thinks about themselves or something else. And it's always a very very limited view.
She'll project that her hired companion "was able to go in that restaurant with me and seemed not to feel too uncomfortable". Grrrrr. This companion could wipe the floor with any snob/racist any day of the week and isn't intimadated by my mother's notions of "class". Mom: "You know, they often feel ill at ease...." (projecting inferiority into others...) grrrrrrrrrrrr
She'll say, you know, Mrs. X is such a strange person. I know that diabetics always are...strange. You know, they feel different from others and their personalitiess... "They are so...."
blahlalalalalalalalla...."THEY" is one of the red flag words for me!!!!!!!!!
They WHO?
WHICH they?
How many inidividual "YOUs" does it take to make a valid "THEY" statement??????????????
generalization upon sterotype piled upon condescencion piled upon unimaginative cluelessness piled upon social tonedeafness........................
aaarrggggh.
Hops
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GAP-You're right. Just don't say anything. I read in my book that you should never give an N too much information.
I think that's a good approach. And then it's a matter of figuring out other places to have real reciprocal interactions.
For me, it seems my relationship with the FOO has lightened up since I pretty much gave up having any expectations. They still do pretty much the same things, but it doesn't bother me as much.
Oh and BTW boiled peanuts is a Southern thing, but you can buy raw unshelled peanuts at Walmart and make your own. They are great :)
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hops,
Why are you hanging out with my mom when you have you r own???????
Ugh - THEY is one of those words for me... especially when you pair it with "always" or "never".
I love boiled peanuts!!!! Especially the ones in brine!!!
You know, Tony, my mother does the same thing... my whole childhood was promises, promises... and now she does it with the kids. None of it ever materializes. And you are supposed to be sooooo excited by whatever she does pull out of her ass.
Man, I am grumpy today. Sorry for the negative tone...
Love, Beth
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Those narcissists, they always...
:lol:
Hops
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Hi tony
Glad you liked the poem. It's actually up on a blog I started a couple of months ago but didn't do much with except to post a couple of poems... so if you want the URL, PM me and I'll be glad to send it to you.
I'm going to be updating that blog with copies of posts I've written here. Suitably edited so they don't refer to people or events here, of course.
Time to branch out, I think.
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Hi jac
That business of repeating your own words back to you is a standard abuser trick. If they're positive words, it's a way of making sure you don't get credit for your own thoughts and helpfulness.
Example: all the meetings I've been in where the men ignored every constructive comment I made, until one of them repeated it back verbatim, whereupon it was acknowledged and discussed further. [No, I did NOT let this go by without pointing it out.]
If they're negative words, it's vindictive - anything you say that stings them, they'll save up and spit back at you, the first chance they get.
Example: I got truly fed up with my mother's shenanigans one day. She was fixated on something extremely trivial that one of the neighbors had said, and couldn't seem to get her mind on to anything else. I suggested that she talk with her psychiatrist about her meds, because she seemed to be having breakthrough symptoms. [Incidentally, she knew perfectly well that obsessive rumination was a major danger signal for her.]
A few weeks later, I came down with bronchitis, and was on an antibiotic for a couple of weeks. I mentioned this, was still coughing, and she turned around and spat at me that I ought to talk with my doctor about my meds, because I seemed to be having breakthrough symptoms. Word for word. With an absolutely venomous look of satisfaction on her face.
This is really interesting, because it disproves any claim they make to having a faulty memory. What abusers have is a selective memory. They turn it on and off like a faucet tap. I think it comes as a standard option with the denial package and the viciousness upgrade.
The other thing I've noticed is that they always have to have the LAST word. They'll fall all over themselves to get it, it's like people who cut you off and nearly cause an accident, just to be first at the stoplight.
If you are feeling wicked, and unlikely to experience significant damage from one of these folks, it's mildly amusing to keep adding a comment to the conversation, and watch them frantically 'topping' you. Until you realize how sick and sad a waste of human potential the whole thing is. Then it stops being funny.
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I hate the "THEY" word to. It reminds me of a quote:
"To generalize is to be an idiot." - William Blake