Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: WRITE on November 18, 2006, 07:26:34 AM

Title: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on November 18, 2006, 07:26:34 AM

can I have a thread to get me through the next few weeks? Everything is so uphill getting divorced somehow, especially with my ex...he's taken to being moody again, last night he sat in the chair pretending to fall asleep whilst I was talking, I was really happy because a job I had been warned might fall through not only is it going ahead, but the new manager is going to double my hours in the new year and wants me to run it like I'd really like- one hour of music then one hour of one-to-one with some patients who are very sick who otherwise would not be getting attention. And she was very complementary & enthusiastic about my involvement.

But of course my pleasure at this good news triggered his N response, he said something about having less money than he thought and then started rolling his eyes and not listening.

For once I didn't get into it or him, so I suppose that's progress, but it really does show how slow that progress is, and how hard it is to operate without any empathy ina  relationship. I really felt quite dismissed and disrespected and yet he did very little except refuse to acknowledge my joy.

I had been talking about one of the patient's illnesses and the overtly sexualised behaviour, he is usually very knowledgeable and interested in these things but he said 'as someone who has made an inappropriate pass at a friend you should deal with that pretty easily!'

There have been several little digs lately about some of my worst moments during illness, and a few comments about when I start drinking again, though I have felt no compulsion to drink, actually the opposite.

I guess there's a bit of sour grape sabotage going on, plus we still have a few practical things which have been sources of stress, plus I will have to look at his money situation again...he has such extravagant gestures he may well commit himself to alimony he can't afford and then it will be an ongoing friction which he seems to take as evidence of being alive or something! ( sorry to be flipppant...)

Joking apart, this is the kind of stress which leaves me seriously deflated and often precipitates getting sick.

I want to take some Xanax and wake up in 20 weeks!

So I thought about how to plan the next few weeks and get through it and try to turn it into something positive overall.

20 weeks takes me to the end of March, so I'll set a few goals fr then:

*weight loss
by the end of march I can be at my perfect weight and shape if I continue to diet and exercise

*writing
I can have 5 chapters of my novel written I think

*apartment
I'll have to renew the lease by then so I'm going to take another 7 months and work towards buying a house in Novembe 2007- my original goal was to buy a house in March. I also plan by then to have everywhere looking tidy and pleasant and to entertain more!

*social life
I'm pretty isolated a lot of evenings, so I want to start a couple of new social activities.

I am going to dip my toe in the water of formal 'dating' and start the process with an agency or club, so I'll research that if not actually go out until I'm divorced: still feeling strange about that latter bit because I feel it's okay to go to dates, not okay to have a relationship until divorce is final ( wish I wasn't so weird about this kind of thing! )

Want to wean off spending so much time with ex.

*college
I'm going to enroll and complete at least one course by then.

So by March I want to be thin, fit, getting out and maybe dating, more qualified & have some of the novel done.

That's achievable.

I want to feel like life isn't so much on hold, that feeling that I am behind the starting line revving up and unable to move is making me unhappy.

And my plan to not see El Crusho isn't working to make me forget about him, I am thinkign about him more than ever! I just woke up at 5.30 am and I'm thinking about him.

Had coffee with my friend yesterday and she was blunt- I don't think he feels the same about you! It's probably that, but it's also I miss seeing him ( it is a delicious distraction to have a potential romance in the air ) plus I am resisting this urge that 'I screwed up' because now I don't have someone to hug me or go to concerts with....

I really need to reframe some of my thinking for the next few weeks, or I'll be quite depressed by march!

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: gratitude28 on November 18, 2006, 07:44:24 AM

Wow Write!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a great plan!!! You are an inspiration!!!!!!
Yes, it does sound like your husband is experiencing a bit of sour grapes... no doubt he has some idea of what he has lost. I can only imagine that the divorce is painful in so many areas... I am sorry that you have to go through so much hurt.
I love your idea. I'd love to make my own 20 week plan. I am going to think and dream about it tonight and see what I really think I can accomplish in the way you have set out here.
(((((((((((((((((((write)))))))))))))))))))

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Gaining Strength on November 18, 2006, 09:50:25 AM

Well done WRITE.  I think this is a great prelude.  We are here for you while you struggle and move ahead.  I am sorry about your H's responses.  They sound so familiar - I even felt the kick in my stomach.  My late husband hated to see me get awarded for things.  It was so painful.  Just one week before my husband died, my picture was in the paper holding our little baby, for my work with children in the projects.  It was on a July 4th annual page called, "local heroes".  When I woke up that morning and wanted to go get the paper to see the picture he was very sarcastic about it. 

It took me a long time to understand how this behavior came out of his severe abandonment issues.  It still breaks my heart because I had hoped that we could nurture each other to wholeness, healing our similar, painful childhood wounds.  Not to be.

Sorry to go so long WRITE.  I really just meant to say I identified with you and then I got carried away.  I admire your goals and I will contemplate doing something similar in the new year. 

Progress through painful transitions is difficult to see but it is there.  We will support you through it.  We are your friends and we truly understand. - love, Gaining Strength

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on November 18, 2006, 10:16:25 AM

Thanks Beth- if you could see me especially in the evenings, it's like a mood sine wave: positive, negative, fine, lonely, up, down....

It's so interesting my husband's behaviour. And sad. Never once has he said I want you or can we try again, it's just all anger....

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Beth)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((GS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I am so sorry you lost your baby and were not supported by the only other person who should have known how you felt.

It still breaks my heart because I had hoped that we could nurture each other to wholeness, healing our similar, painful childhood wounds.  Not to be.

I am glad you are healing yourself though.

I will support you too, you've been through much more than I have and your grace shines through.

*******************************

Do my goals look realistic?
This is the point I usually start bungy-diving or deciding I need to train as a neuro-surgeon....then a few months into whatever I have started I can't handle all the pressure and start to fall apart.

My son is staying here tonight, he does have a friend to play with though and I am steeling myself for if he changes his mind; I did invite the friend over too and make plans with him and his friends for an activity tomorrow afternoon.

Feeling better this morning, thank you so much!

I just emailed the local church-I want to learn handbells and also to check out if their singles ministry is appropriate for an er older lady...

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Plucky on November 18, 2006, 05:32:21 PM

Write,
your plan sounds great!  For me it would be very ambitious though, although you may have more time and energy than I do.  The onyl thing I wonder about is that you kind if want to transform yourself physically, but obviously you are already attractive enough to get a really cute guy interested, never mind that he is dysfunctional,  that's a different issue!  Are you trying to be more healthy, get back to the person you were, or do you actually think there is something wrong with your appearance before you can attract the people you want?

If I were in your shoes, I might just break down the plan week by week to see how much you need to accomplish every week, keeping in mind the hols are coming (and any other unusual events) and leaving some slack for if/when you fall behind.  Then you can better tell whether the plan is doable.    I find that often when my plans fail, I can look back and see that it was unrealistic in some respect.

Re your H:  It sounds as if you went to him for some empathy and to be happy at your happiness.  Maybe you should just go to your real friends for this.    My H I think is similar.  He will exhibit some human tendencies and I slide down into thinking he is going to be normal.   What you have with him may be a relationship or not, depending on your definition, but in my book it is in the category of forced relationship.  Most of the things that happen in real relationships do not happen in forced relationships, such as sharing, caring, and basically anything good.  Try to lower your expectations down to only what you really know you can get.  Do you feel you have to look after him still (alimony)?  Do you really?  What would happen if you didn't? 

Keep posting and we will be here to cheer you on. 
Plucky

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on November 18, 2006, 06:17:22 PM

Wow, Write.
I am very impressed at the ambition of it all. It's almost like you want to make up for "lost" (not wasted) years all at once!!

For me, a 20-minute plan might be more realistic.

Why don't you take it a week at a time so you don't set yourself up for self-criticism?

hugs,
Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on November 18, 2006, 08:57:58 PM

Hi Plucky and Hops. Thank you.

I re-read my goals, I think they're achievable except the dating- can't know how that'll go! You think it is ambitious Hops? Good thing I didn't tell you my bigger career goals then, you'll think I'm nuts!

I've dropped a lot of weight already, almost 40 lbs now, so on a roll with that. Re my self-image/ looks etc I gained a lot of weight when I was on the huge Seroquel dose a couple of years ago. I feel good about myself but the thought of getting naked before someone, which I haven't in a while, is still a bit daunting. I would certainly enjoy sex more if I felt trimmer for example!

But it's not how you look in attracting cute guys- El Crusho was much more attracted to me when I was bigger and looked less attractive ( is that a red flag?! ) non-threatening and vulnerability is attractive to a lot of guys. I have always turned some guys off because I don't act like I need taking care of and not all guys like confident women!

No, no self-criticism, I'm not too worried if something doesn't work except I'd like to finish dropping the weight- I just want to focus outside of my hurt self over the next few weeks, keep busy and get through it as best I can.

I just wish it was all over.

Talked to ex again re the alimony, he says he's fine with what we agreed and to go ahead with the paperwork. We walked the dog and bickered a bit about our parenting styles, but it was pretty good-natured. It was a lovely autumn evening. When I left I realised how much I still love him and how much better it is for me to divorce him and not keep trying to engage him and be hurt or let down, and make him feel bad about it too.

My son didn't come over to stay, also makes me realise we made the right decision for him to stay at Dad's- he's much happier than for ages. I will take him and his friends out tomorrow and Wednesday we'll do something just the two of us the whole day ( the only day I'm not working )

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on November 18, 2006, 09:10:14 PM

Write, imo this is such maturity:

Quote

I realised how much I still love him and how much better it is for me to divorce him and not keep trying to engage him and be hurt or let down, and make him feel bad about it too.

Rare, and wonderful.

Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on November 18, 2006, 09:19:11 PM

it is time I grew up!  :)

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: moonlight52 on November 18, 2006, 09:25:26 PM

Write ,
You are inspirational And Isn't it so true when we are helping others or ourselves in goals it just feels so good.
Today was sort of up and down the best part of my day was helping my oldest d with two of her college classes one is the history of monarchy (which I love and so does she)
The other was a very dry communications class having to do with decision making in companies.

Well this was the high light of my day...
Yes you can achieve all your goals but for me I get nervous when I put a time dead line on it.
When you close one door you make room for such beauty to come into your life.

Quote from: WRITE on November 18, 2006, 08:57:58 PM

I re-read my goals, I think they're achievable
No, no self-criticism, I just want to focus outside of my hurt self over the next few weeks, keep busy and get through it as best I can.

Write your bigger career goals sound very interesting.What's on your mysterious list?????

Much love to you ,

moonlight

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on November 18, 2006, 09:30:18 PM

Write your bigger career goals sound very interesting.What's on your mysterious list?????

it's no big mystery really, I always wanted to be a full-time writer and that is my long-term goal, to earn my living that way. It's my projects which sound a little bit far-off: a book on my work, a book a new Christianity ( which is started ) a novel ( which is started ) and a book of poetry ( which is started ) I intend to complete and publish all these!

About 6 months I should set for that you think ( smile )

Much love to you too.

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Plucky on November 19, 2006, 12:28:05 AM

Hi Write,
you sound pretty happy! I am glad about that.  I feel better about your weight loss plan.  Not that it is any of my business, really.  But you are just trying to get back to yourself, and that is great.    That is a bit of a red flag about el crusho!  Hmmmmmm.

It must be so hard to still love your H and keep having to constantly re-realise that he is just not capable.    It makes it all that much more complex to heal.

Wishing you continued strength and joy.
Plucky

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on November 19, 2006, 09:58:00 AM

Thanks Plucky. Yes I am happy. Isn't it incredible! I never thought I'd be happy just like that....and it's the simplest things seem to make it so every day.

The weight loss is positive on many levels- it's part of a holistic plan of self-care which is my way of dealing with having bipolar.

Having had a taste of serious illness I will no longer take my health and my body for granted, I have learned to appreciate and take care of it.

That is a bit of a red flag about el crusho!  Hmmmmmm.

well we're from extremely different backgrounds, and what is going on I think- a sexual attraction but I'm not interested in sex without a relationship ( not because I want to marry him though ) and he doesn't know how to initiate sex but say directly he doesn't want a marriage-type relationship....and we're both wary then when we see each other we don't know how to behave.

Because he won't let me get closer I can't explain to him about the bipolar so I use being still married as an excuse and I'm usually so open to things it sort-of comes off as a lie...and he is so cute he's got women throwing themselves at him all the time but- poor thing!- they all want relationships.

I think he wants to be with someone who is a free spirit but he can't quite be a free spirit himself and say that....

I am still not sure what the effect of an intense relationship or sex will be on the bipolar.

I've done some more research on the hormones etc and I think it may well be an unbalancing thing. So I have decided I have to feel safe and comfortable enough with the person to be able to explain it.

With el crusho he doesn't 'get' a lot, he's had a very sheltered very privileged life, there's a huge difference in our experience levels. He also has very rigid ideas about his faith and a sort-of parental relationship with G_d, and G_d is Jesus to him and he doesn't get anyone else's beliefs may be different but they are equally valid or logical!

I sense quite strongly that if we were to get together he is going to have a lot of ambivalence about his moral and social position and I'm still a bit fragile after all the rejection I've had to accept another one.

I know it seems like I over-analyse all this and is it healthy etc...it's the first time I've had really strong sexual or emotional feelings which haven't sent me scurrying around and pushing all my hormones and behaviour out of balance though.

It's an important test if I really can manage this illness and my life when I want something which is going to compromise my wellbeing and recovery.

For many years I have been unable to control this side of myself, I often wonder if it's why I chose to remain in a sexless marriage for so long, because I felt too out of control when I was sexually attracted or involved with someone.

The thing I don't like about el crusho is the thing I didn't like about my ex though- he won't communicate what he's thinking about us.

My therapist said to me a few days ago I read body language really well and I should trust it, if I feel someone's words and their actions are not in synch I am almost certainly right.

She said you can't infer motives or outcomes from that though- which of course we all try to do!

Writing all this out I see how far I have come in managing the bipolar- things are wobbling me and I am gently setting them right which I've never been able to do before.

The doctors say you can't- meds are the only way to control it. But with meds I feel nothing- I am surpressed, no creativity, no positive feelings, no energy.

I don't think doctors really understand bipolar 1 yet, and I think it's a completely different illness to bipolar 2 and both are syndromes which require a complete behavioural approach to managing them.

Whilst meds are the first port-of-call there's no impetus for patients to learn about their own physiology and get in tune with the mood swings and learn how to accept them.

I used to think it was unbearable, and even now sometimes it is difficult to be in one mood place and two hours later an opposite state, you have seen here how I can be posting so positively and happily then suddenly it falls away to despair and depression.

The key to managing it is really the interpretation of that though- not seeing it in terms of happiness or misery, but a s a natural cycle within me which will swing back and forth and respond strongly to life stimulii and my other cycles...strangely enough the key to living with it seems to be getting in balance which is the last thing a doctor suggests when you present with these extreme mood swings and a list of things you've done whilst out of control! It can be quite shocking to have an illness which cuts down boundaries and social norms, there's a reaction to that.

Then when the patient stays out of balance and out of control it seems to reinforce the medical view that only meds can control it!

My ex said yesterday 'your bad days are worse than everyone else's but your good days are better' and he's right. And this thread-  I don't have any problem with goal-setting and overcoming resistance and achieving my potential. It's very rare for me to set myself a reasonable goal and not achieve it. My fear of failure is very low- I know that an energy swing is coming which will ride the next crest for me, take me to something else. It's a very liberating thing, mental illness, with the right attitude.

One of my alzheimers patients when she first joined us her daughter spent a lot of time there. They have a very conservative background and mum heard the music and got up and started to dance. The daughter pulled her back down, embarrassed, and said 'she would never have done this before'. A few weeks later and the daughter no longer visits, but the mother dances every day...maybe in a lifetime of no dancing it's part of the balance of things we get to dance freely at the point of letting go?

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Plucky on November 20, 2006, 12:46:20 AM

Hi Write,
go ahead and analyse the relationship with el crusho - what is the risk? Maybe the thng itself was not very deep, but the issues it touched on were, and why not explore them when it matters a lot less than it will in the future?

As far as meds and bipolar -  I am far from expert on this, but I do think that many things that are considered incurable and extreme now will later be subject to a simple correction based on inputs to the body, such as diet, light, herbs, who knows!  In the 18th and 19th centuries, things such as bad eyesight and painful teeth were corrected, and they were certainly a big obstacle for many people.  In the 20th century it was depression and diabetes.  Soon it may be autism, bipolar, and other currently misundertood conditions.

Plucky

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on November 20, 2006, 10:00:57 AM

Thanks Plucky!

Maybe the thng itself was not very deep, but the issues it touched on were, and why not explore them when it matters a lot less than it will in the future?

I think so.

What may be unhealthy I guess is still thinking about him in a relationship context when he has made it clear he isn't relationship material for me!

It's interesting too that I have found it hard to back off, another thing I need to work on. I am so ingrained in 'locking in' to something even when it's not positive to do so.

I guess it's what I did as a child to survive, try and engage people constantly, try and salvage something.

My marriage reinforced that. Yesterday was just the same as all outings with ex go- we end the day in misery and no one exactly knows why except he suddenly seems more content and 'vindicated' in something. I tried to discuss it and the words tumbled out of him: it's all your fault!

I am always a bit surprised I guess that he never moves away from that despite therapy and being happier. I did disengage at that point though, I know it's not all my fault!

Son is staying here tonight and Weds we're spendign the whole day togetehr. Don't know how that will go. SUbtle undermining going on from ex- not sure he even knows he's doign it, but since we decided we have to parent with a more united front he's been even worse at crossing my values- 'there is no G_d' and cursing have resurfaced with a vengeance....

You can see why I react very strongly to el crusho's apparent belief his faith is more valid than mine...

As for the disrespect and cursing I pointedout to ex that son is copying him and then he's cross with son and he said why don't I drop the assinine psycho-babble. He has a charming way sometimes, started one conversation in that sneering tone- 'you have a tendency towards the irrational...'

Yuk!

I do think that many things that are considered incurable and extreme now will later be subject to a simple correction based on inputs to the body, such as diet, light, herbs, who knows!

me too. Some of the current treatments have worse side-effects than the illnesses too- unhealthy/toxic is just that, whether it's prescribed or not!

Medication works differently on each individual, but is prescribed as though there is a uniform response.

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on November 21, 2006, 06:03:49 AM

well I've hit the first 'snag' to my plan! It's 5 am and this is the third day I am awake after 3 or 4 hours sleep; guess I'll have to medicate that tonight.

It's hard for me living in an apartment, I'm a light sleeper and young people who are mostly my neighbours are inconsiderate, I've been woken by people coming and going talking on cellphones or car music blaring or last night my upstairs neighbour started vacuuming at 3 am!

One of the things with bipolar is maintaining a sleep pattern.

Son is fast asleep, just tucked him in more, it's gone cold here.

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on November 21, 2006, 09:38:08 AM

HI Write,
My D just moved to a little apt. and for the first time has to deal with the noise of others....loud
TV overhead, etc. My sympathies to you!

I'm going to send her my "Sleep Machine". It's a white-noise generator that plays rain, surf, white noise, or train sounds to mask background noise. I like it a lot.

Maybe one would help you sleep? They're not expensive.

Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on November 21, 2006, 09:52:17 AM

thanks Hops, I'll look into one.

Good luck with the new job!!!!

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: pennyplant on November 21, 2006, 05:31:40 PM

You can also run a fan if you already have one.  In the summer we run a fan all  night and it works the same as white noise.  Now that it's cold you could aim it away from you and set it on low.  Just till you find the real white noise maker.  Surf sounds must be very soothing.

PP

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: axa on November 23, 2006, 07:07:22 AM

Thank you for posting the plan.  It is what  I need.  I think a plan for a week is what I need to sit down and do so that I have focus and do not spend my time going over the same old stuff.  I will write a plan today and post later when I have made that committment to myself.

axa

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Gaining Strength on November 23, 2006, 09:18:19 AM

For years I wore earplugs and when I traveled I wore an eye mask.  Later I resorted to sandwiching my head between two pillows.  That's how I sleep now.  But try all different types of earplugs, I like the squishy kind that are used in industrial settings.  You can get them in the pharmacy.  They are comfortable and really shut out noises. - Gaining Strength

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Plucky on November 24, 2006, 11:32:45 PM

are you sleeping, are you sleeping, sister write? sister write?
Plucky

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on November 25, 2006, 02:22:46 AM

have used fan in bathroom as white noise maker- good. Was going to type an update or at least reply to your song Plucky, but my eyes are closing- my cue to go be a dreamer....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

More tomorrow. Night all- and keep those bl**dy bells down, monks next door!

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on December 08, 2006, 05:55:39 PM

okay, 3 weeks on I've dropped 6 more pounds, started bell-ringing and been out several times, and the apartment is almost straight from the move!

Sorry I hardly have been here- my computer is definitely no more so I only get a few minutes online a day.

I have been thinking about everyone though, and I pop on every time I get chance.

Hope you get the sleep apnoea sorted laura, my friend's husband had a machine for using at night.

Love to everyone
~W

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on January 02, 2007, 05:04:59 PM

Okay, Now I guess it's week 7 or 8 and I haven't gained any weight, only dropped a couple more pounds because of Christmas but I exercised most days and I'm now a dress size smaller.

Still undecided on the apartment lease, but I did speak to the neighbours about their noise, the guy this time, he apologised and said they'd keep it down after midnight, which they have.

My social life has been pretty busy, but I still haven't dated...maybe soon!

Haven't written much or enrolled for a college course, but since my new project there are a lot of Spanish speakers I think the first thing will be a course to brush that up.

Today I am writing a poem about Dr Seuss for kindergarten kids to set to music.
No work on the novel at all  :o

So not quite on target, but not off either!

I think it helps making lists....

~W

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on January 02, 2007, 11:20:25 PM

Hi Write,
Call me impressed, intimidated, jealous, but most of all...
delighted to hear from you!

Seriously, you are so functional.  :)

(I love the thought of you composing for Dr. Seuss...)

Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Gaining Strength on January 03, 2007, 01:30:37 AM

Good going WRITE.  Setting goals really does help.  I admire you for posting this topic and coming back well into it.  I am going to consider something similar.  So glad you are on your way. - GS

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: seasons on January 03, 2007, 08:45:12 AM

Write this is such an uplifting thread, thank you for sharing you goals with us. Congratulations on all that you have accomplished for YOU. 8)

love seasons

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on January 03, 2007, 04:49:03 PM

Thanks you Seasons, CB123, GS and Hops, you're all very kind!

It's interesting how the harder something is, the more it has to be a priority.

That's what your son will need to learn CB, health comes above everything else until it's second-nature to prioritise it.

Any recovery is doomed I guess unless we do that, make it the umber one priority.

So interesting New Year's at midnight I was with a friend who knows my entire health/mental health history including being on the receiving end of the worst of it; amazing then that she handed me a glass of champagne and said 'just take a sip!' She was drunk, and I suspect has a drink problem, but all the same: it brought into sharp focus that only I can take care of myself, not rely on anyone else to!

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on January 03, 2007, 08:08:05 PM

Hmmmphhh!

I don't like sabotaging "friends". Yoicks.

Hope you tell her that is not acceptable, to order you to drink if it's an issue for you.

Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on January 04, 2007, 02:45:21 PM

I don't like sabotaging "friends". Yoicks.

you know, it is always friends and loved ones do the sabotaging etc. Never have I had a complete stranger try to ply me with food or drink, or make undermining or difficult comments!

Our loved ones can be quite a source of negativity...

I ignored her, she was being an idiot.

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: axa on January 06, 2007, 08:48:10 AM

Write,

Sounds thoughtless and inconsiderate at the least.  Well done for not sabotaging yourself and honouring you.

axa

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on January 18, 2007, 02:04:14 PM

well it's now two months since I started this thread, still on track with the dieting. Have started a refresher course in Spanish for one of my jobs, not been dating but have been out more.

Still no divorce....ex wouldn't complete the final papers with me last weekend. I may have to just do it myself I guess, but I thought it would be easier if we did it together and he feels in control which seems to be very important to him...

He really doesn't see how controlling he is with me, he thinks he is helping and I'll fall apart if he doesn't manage me; it's him who falls apart though, I am just the same: up and down with this mood disorder, always bounce back.

He's funny, I told you he set me an account on my son's computer, you can't believe the problems I have with it, he alters settings, I can't make basic things work some days, I have to go to him for stuff all the time. I told him yesterday I was ordering a laptop, I can use it in the coffee bar.

He has to do my taxes soon too, the last time we joint file, no doubt I'll be in for some criticism there.

It's strange though, all this used to really bother and hurt me because it was so against my hopes and expectations for our marriage...now it's just more 'red tape' to untangle and move on from.

As much as you can move with someone who goes around in circles...

Anyway, I did sort-of stick to my twenty week plan almost half-way through, and lost more weight, and got through Christmas! Let's focus on the positive....

~W

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on January 18, 2007, 08:03:36 PM

GOOD for you Write:

Quote

'red tape' to untangle and move on from

These are very healthy thoughts.
And that you have kept even intermittently on track with so many of your personal goals while grieving the losses of recent times is very impressive.

You have such strength, and it's growing right along with you.

This is a hard time, soon after a final separation.
Don't blame yourself for the adjustment bumps and blues.

hugs,
Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on February 06, 2007, 11:45:56 PM

3 more weeks on; it's like keeping a journal to my friends!

Update: ex has completed divorce papers, for some reason I have been too busy to take them to the court. Which I know means more than I am too busy, or I'd cancel something and make time. Not sure what is holding me back...

It may be something to do with the fact I dropped about another 12 lbs and I am now thinner than I have been in years. Coupled with all the exercise and new clothes I had to get I look good I think, and I am getting a lot of attention from guys.

All of whom don't measure up : (
I don't mean to be negative or judgemental, but I am attracted to someone, start to get to know them, then they say or do something which puts me off! I can't seem to get past a certain point because I don't meet anyone I trust as I get to know them, not sure whether I am just attracted to Ns which I've said before, but the latest guy seems that way, I shared with him something I wrote his reply was just like my ex: to be honest I couldn't get beyond the sound quality of the recording! I listened to it myself last week and yes it's not perfect but perfectly audible...he went off about how talented he is and I left.

Why do I always attract people who seem so interested in me but then it turns out to be all about them? was the question in my mind as I drove off...and N may well be the answer!

It feels worse as I have helped him out tons with his work and rather than him being grateful he simply took it for granted then got competitive! It's like the story of my love relationships; none of my friendships ever go this way, I wish I could analyse more closely why I am so off-beam when it comes to picking men for relationships. My guy friends are all lovely.

The taxes got done, and I started guitar lessons. And I've got an interesting social life, lots of outings and friends to enjoy recently.

And I'm tired and lonely and miserable tonight, but just typing all that out made me feel better. I taught a class a song last week:

Nobody loves me, everybody hates me
Think I'll go and eat worms
Long ones, short ones, fat ones, thin ones
See how they wriggle and squirm

Think I'll go sing that to myself!

Thanks for listening. I am no use at following the threads right now, but do join this thread anyone who needs some love or support, or PM me.

Love to everyone,

~W

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: gratitude28 on February 07, 2007, 12:04:14 AM

Make sure you cook the worms or you might get salmonella :)

I have been wanting to say thank you to you write. Because of you, I am exercising and eating a better diet and feeling a lot better. I have made the changes... not for short term, but for life. You were a huge factor in helping me make that leap into the "get your butt out there" zone.

Thank you thank you thank you.

And... YOU GO GIRL!!!!

Love, Beth

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on February 07, 2007, 12:07:44 PM

Hey Write....
So so proud of you that you tabbed that N pronto and got outta there...

I'm just typing some quite "advice" at work, but if you were my good friend which you are, and we were doing a quick update, I'd say, W, hon, next time, don't give your precious time and energy to "HELP" a man so dang much.
If you're meant to be together long term in a healthy relationship, you can help him for decades.
(As you've done with stbx, eh?)

Sure, do the reciprocal gesture now and then. And be your kind seld. That's good and fair even in dating.
But don't move on to becoming the most awesomely sensitive and helpful woman this man has ever met in his life so easily.

Let him, whoever he is, earn a glimpse at your core generosity. If he's smart (and not an N!), he'll sense this is who you are without heroic gestures on your part.

Play in the flow, stay aware of reciprocity. You are doing so bravely well and you're on a collision course with a happy partnership, I'd bet my big toe.

I bet you DO look good right now! You can handle it.

(((((Write)))))

Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on February 07, 2007, 10:53:38 PM

I am exercising and eating a better diet and feeling a lot better

well done GS. It makes such a difference doesn't it. My life was never really in balance until I learned to eat properly, and even this week, I got a huge spot which I never get unless I don't eat properly- which I didn't for a couple of days...

It's the best thing I have done, learn to take care of myself the basics.

YOU GO GIRL TOO!

W, hon, next time, don't give your precious time and energy to "HELP" a man so dang much.

I'm not explaining myself well, we work together on Tuesdays. His assistant walked off the job and when I say helped I mean I stepped in to her position; which me being me ended in me telling him all the things need to change....

I will say this though, he has listened! But I guess he is sulking...he'll get over it. I saw him at church tonight and I didn't think he was N, just a bit muddled and troubled. But his mother just developed an immune disease and he's havign a bad time.

There is an incredible connection between us in one way, but you are right, he has to reciprocate. So let's see what happens next. Nothing probably, I don't think I am quite ready...which is why I side-tracked our growing closeness to be bossy and demanding no doubt.

I booked a therapy session tomorrow, I want to see where this current self-sabotage is coming from/ heading!

It's hard for me not to do what I think is right Hops, since I see him at church, and I am a Christian; he needed help so I gave it. I would have done that even if I didn't like him.

And I do like him, but no drama this time, you are right if he doesn't see who I am for himself then he is not worthy!!!!

Also he has to work on his own 'issues' as you say helping ex turned into 2 decades and he still needs me!

Feeling much more chirpy tonight, work is going so well, I had a lovely girly lunch with two of my favourite friends, and now I'm going tp go snuggle up with my son for a while.

Tomorrow I am playing for a group where a documentary is being filmed; pity about the spot on my chin....

Thanks so much for caring and supporting me. Especially when I don't do much for anyone else lately.

How was your trip Hops?

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on February 07, 2007, 11:08:01 PM

I follow you Write...you're quite clear.
Can I ask one more?

Could there be a hint in "incredible connection"?

I'm not sure what it is, but I have a sense that there's a key in there.

So glad you're tending to so many parts of your life: friends, work, health...

It all sounds hugely healthy and such such progress.

Warms my winter.

Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on February 08, 2007, 10:46:14 PM

Could there be a hint in "incredible connection"?

I'm not sure what it is, but I have a sense that there's a key in there.

by that I mean we have a lot in common: neglectful alcoholic mothers on the negative side, music and writing on the positive. And a lot of chemistry.

I am going slowly, and it feels okay, I was mad at him earlier in the week for taking me  for granted in our work and yesterday a Thank You card arrived...

I also have told him about the bipolar, it came out rather positively in terms of- my life is very happy and I only let someone into it who can manage their emotions...

Maybe I can let my guard down a bit and see what happens.

What do you think about the 'incredible connection' thing? I have this with other relationships, many of my friendships are like this too, we 'sense' each other somehow. I think if this doesn't be a romance ( which I am taking slowly because of my illness ) we will be firm friends.

Ex just told me he likes our relationship more now. I can hear him downstairs laughing with our son. He's still a bit depressed but the a/d s have kicked in.

Better go. Hope everyone is okay, let me know anyone who has thoughts on the 'incredible connection' comment!

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: pennyplant on February 09, 2007, 07:21:42 AM

"incredible connection"

I agree, I think that was a revealing comment.  There are connotations there.  When I heard that it reminded me of the heightened emotions I felt with my first emotional affair.  And in my case, that incredible connection is something I still don't understand.  It was five years ago now.  It was with a person I was very attracted to.  He was half my age.  There were little to no boundaries for me with him at that time.  Unfortunately, I probably will never understand what was going on with him.  So, it turned out to be more of a turning point for me or a stage of (very painful) growth rather than a mutual relationship.  Perhaps he had a lack in him that was compatible with a lack in me.  I've heard somewhere that this kind of attraction occurs when both people are at the same developmental stage.  When both are in need of the same things???  I will probably wonder about it the rest of my life.  This was a person I probably would have run away with.  Thrown caution to the wind.  It was also a person who brought out the best parts of me.  Reminded me of who I might have become if my life hadn't gone the way it did.  That's a belief I have, no reason to really think that I might have become my "real" self under different or better circumstances.  But that's what got tapped into.

I think he reminded me of many things that were or are going on deep inside of me.  As for what I brought out in him, probably it was just testosterone.  That's what I tell myself now.  That is not what I believed then.

What do I believe now?  That I have a particular path in this life and it is not necessarily a path I would have put at the top of my list.   But I don't choose at this time to struggle against that.  Perhaps I am not ready yet for the path I would have chosen.  Perhaps it would have been a disaster for me to run away with him.  And he didn't want that anyway.  So, it's not even a real issue.  Just a learning experience on my part, maybe on his part too.  I will always wonder about that.

So, that's my current observation on the concept of "incredible connection".  I believe in them, have had a couple myself, but don't understand them particularly well.  Probably I'm just not evolved enough. So, now I concentrate on the evolution part of my life.  Maybe at some future point I will know what to do with future incredible connections.  I hope so anyway.  Losing that one from five years ago--it still feels like a huge loss to me.  But I'm pretty well used to working around that now.

I'm interested to see what others know about such things.

Pennyplant

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Gaining Strength on February 09, 2007, 07:57:54 AM

3 more weeks on;

WRITE what an incredible commitment you made and have stuck to.  I am so proud of you.  You put it out there in public at a difficult time of year and in a difficult time of life and you have stuck to it.  If you can do that (which you clearly can) you can do anything.  How I admire you!!!

Whatever you decide about your "incredible connection" be sure to protect your work life.  I have all confidence that you will make the right decisions.  As you make small steps make sure you protect your life as if something didn't work out - how would it feel at church, at work.  Then you know if the risk is worth it.  You have good antennae and while there may be red flags, if you proceed with protection then go ahead and enjoy that warm feeling.  - your friend - Gaining Strength

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: axa on February 09, 2007, 08:18:50 AM

Write,

Well done for taking care of yourself with your diet, exercise etc.

I am on the same track as CB -- incredible connection - to me spells danger.  Sorry, maybe its just where I am right not but I know if I walked into a room and felt that connection with a man my guess would be that he is an N.  I think the background thing also gave me the shivers......... sounds like XN and I.  Just be careful please.  I know the wonderful feeling of that "connection" and how hard it is to stay safe around it but that is what I am trying to learn here.  What does that connection mean, can it be a good thing, is it me unconsciously recognising the damage and drama....... maybe I am reading all sorts of things into it but please take care of you Write.  You have done such amazing work.  Stay posted with us.

xxx axa

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on February 09, 2007, 04:48:40 PM

it turned out to be more of a turning point for me or a stage of (very painful) growth rather than a mutual relationship.  Perhaps he had a lack in him that was compatible with a lack in me.  I've heard somewhere that this kind of attraction occurs when both people are at the same developmental stage.  When both are in need of the same things???

thanks Pennyplant. I think we are both very much at the same stage- ready to move on after healing from a divorce, building music/writing careers, and also the same level of residual emotions from the early childhood experiences ( strong but no longer limiting )

It is interesting to bump into someone who has all these same factors, and I have grown a lot just in dealing with all the things we said to each other so far and in not falling into a fantasy relationship ( for a change )

That's where I usually go about this point- develop a strong unrequited crush and sabotage any actual relationship!

I'm not as afraid as I was, that's for sure.

anybody incredibly connected with me right now would be trying to caretake or else they would be sizing me up as N-meat.  I just know that I'm not in a good place for a romantic relationship.  Although, I would probably be tempted take the bait anyway.    Brand new romantic relationships are such great mood-enhancers!

I agree CB, we attract people who are complimentary to where we're at emotionally, so being in a good place to start is essential.

Is he N? I don't know. He's a bit arrogant, insensitive in that way sensitive people can be when they are blinded to the bigger picture sometimes, and he's very competetive.

If he were N I suspect he'd be trying to charm me more, trying to start a relationship more, trying to get his own way.

There is quite an ebb and flow going between us of moving closer, backing off and responding to each other doing the same.

I don't think I have a cynical bone in me these days, by the way. The difficult things happen and I am taking care of business. I have never felt so strong and calm.

This man has awoken feelings in me so deep, yet I can envisage a future without him! ( smile ) If it doesn't work out, it wasn'tmeant to be. When he hurt my feelings about the music I showed him he had but without rancour and pointed out his competetiveness and he saw it; he was much more humble the next day and took care to compliment my piano skills after a rehearsal where he heard me play properly for the first time!

By the way, I have gotten this jealousy response a number of times with that particular set of compositions, I listened to it again today and it is rather good ( despite the sound quality! ) It takes a high level of maturity I think to be pleased when someone does something creative. I am lucky, it's years since I felt jealous and anyway- I know the downside to where this creativity comes from....

be sure to protect your work life.  I have all confidence that you will make the right decisions.  As you make small steps make sure you protect your life as if something didn't work out - how would it feel at church, at work.  Then you know if the risk is worth it.  You have good antennae and while there may be red flags, if you proceed with protection then go ahead and enjoy that warm feeling.  - your friend - Gaining Strength

thanks GS, one of the reasons I have been proceeding slowly is we work together and go to church together and I think we both want to know how we will handle things if a relationship doesn't work out.

But I made a great friendship with ex, and my last crush I see him again at a rehearsal every week and I think I can cope. I'm not much for drama now.

I didcut the guy off when he started to ask me out a few days ago because he started saying he doesn't like his private life public; well he'll have to rethink that with me...I am as open as anyone and anyway people are already starting to look at us and I'm sure think we are an item. Not that I would want to tell everyone the things which are private- but musicians are prominent and I'm not sneaking about either!

he's funny though, when we do a good church performance he will often smile at me and he so often hugs me and no one else or will be staring at me....how could he think people will not notice? Even I notice and I am usually oblivious...

I know if I walked into a room and felt that connection with a man my guess would be that he is an N.  I think the background thing also gave me the shivers......... sounds like XN and I.  Just be careful please.

yes, that is my main concern too- it certainly is a component of my attraction with people, I just love talented and 'out there' guys and so many are N tendency.

I'm not as afraid of N as I was though- if he turns out to be N I know now the limitations of that relationship and won't waste much time trying to make it work.

please take care of you Write

thanks axa, and all of you, I see you are all saying this and I agree, and I will take care of me. But also I have been sayign for over a year that I want a new relationship and at some point I will have to overcome my fears and try one...maybe the first really real one of my life.

The reason we pick Ns is about them and what they hook us in with; the reasons we stay are our own.

I think by stayign in a long term relationship with a narcissist I was

1.) avoiding my deep fear of intimacy

and

2.) deflecting my own bipolar issues onto someone else.

This man may well just be another stage in my development away from that....

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on February 09, 2007, 09:45:17 PM

Hi Write,
I'm glad others posted here...I did feel that "incredible connection" might be a red flag. I think because it's not followed with anecdotes about caring, but about reactions, his and yours. I don't like to rain on anyone's hopeful parade, but to me, his reactions don't sound good. They don't sound emotionally healthy or safe. Yours, honestly, sound to me like interpretations that put him in a very rosy light that may not be realistic, or...make excuses for possibly strong negatives.

I completely understand the attraction to creative men. I have spent most of my life either in or crawling out of a stand of rosy self-eelusion. dI just am concerned. You've only been single such a very short while. We don't have to choose spuds vs. sparkles...somewhere in between is a steady light.

This may be silly but I thought perhaps I'd color-code my response! Red is for what I see as a bodes-badly sign of who he could be in a longterm intimate relationship. Pink I see as possibly self-deluding notions that you' have or will "change/d him", and orange are what I see as excuses or rationalizations for behaviors that I think are inherent to who he is.

He may be a perfectly good human being, of course. But he might not be a good mate, you know?

a bit arrogant, insensitive in that way sensitive people can be  when they are blinded to the bigger picture sometimes, and he's very competetive.


he hurt my feelings  about the music

he was much more humble the next day  and took care to compliment my piano skills after a rehearsal where he heard me play properly  
By the way, I have gotten this jealousy response a number of times

It takes a high level of maturity I think to be pleased when someone does something creative 

[I disagree. I think plenty of creative or simply unselfish people have no trouble at all being pleased at someone else's creativity]

 he started saying he doesn't like his private life public; well he'll have to rethink that

he will often smile at me and he so often hugs me and no one else
[not sure what this means except that if you're getting intimate it is ordinary ... not "incredible"]

This may all be absurd, dear Write, and maybe I should be put to bed with my crayons!
But if it helps you in any way, then it's worth it.

(I identify a whole lot with some of your man-patterns. I think that's why I'm looking so closely.)

love,
Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on February 10, 2007, 07:42:31 PM

well, we'll see! I will go with my instincts and if he is abusive I will stop spending time with him. I think I can set boundaries with him, if I can with ex I can with anyone!

No, it's not a 'hopeful parade' and you're not raining on it Hops. It's a strong attraction and I feel strong enough to see where it goes. There was another guy last year who was really sweet but that didn't work out and I didn't fall apart, quite the opposite. It was useful to show which things I still have hang-ups about.

I like your colour-coding, though I have to say- these are all qualities someone could see in me also. Us creative types are pretty big show-offs, and being bipolar introduces a certain grandiosity to my own behaviour at times...

I feel confident to handle the relationships in my life these days, I am finding that things which used to be huge setbacks are just blips now, I am developing the emotional resilience I was hoping to.

I still sense and feel things strongly, and have the mood swings, but  am not as reactive or taking so much personally. I think I can take a chance on dating now if i take it slowly.

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Gaining Strength on February 10, 2007, 08:10:20 PM

This man may well just be another stage in my development away from that....

You have received so very good feedback from some people who you know care about you and you are willing to take a risk.  I believe that we must be willing to risk in order to grow.  Do proceed cautiously and whatever happens - remember this is not an "I told you so" kind of place. 

Again, I think you have good antennae.  Be sure to use them. Enjoy getting out there - with both eyes open. - your friend - Gaining Strength

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on February 10, 2007, 10:02:48 PM

Bingo, Write.
You sound strong and clear.

(And I sounded bossy. I'm sorry.)

I'm a bit ragged and I sure do project when I'm that way.

Thanks for responding with strength and courtesy.
You're a love.

Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Gaining Strength on February 11, 2007, 08:57:00 AM

Hops - you were not writing to me but I spent some time last night thinking about this dialogue.  I didn't think you sounded bossy.  I think you sounded like a true friend willing to take a risk and voice her sincere thoughts.  I only hope that you will do that with me.  I on the other hand took the quite easy "good cop" role.  Sort of mousy of me.  But I admire your courage here.  It gives me a sense of true relationship existing here.  So for myself, as someone engaged in the dialogue, I am thankful for your forthrightness. - GS

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on February 11, 2007, 10:34:50 AM

Wow, GS.
(Write, excuse the digression...but it's a biggie for me.)

GS, do you have laser beams for spectacles?  :shock:  Thank you.

What you spotted in my exchange with Write, above, is exactly what I do with my daughter and other people too. And for the same reasons. It's second-guessing myself when I didn't do anything cruel in the first place. My motive is fear of disapproval or abandonment. And I need to get better as spotting that fear for what it is and be okay about a hint of disagreement. Jeez, I really am gutless sometimes. Wow.

((((((Write)))))) thanks for the space

((((((((GS))))))) as ever, illlumination

love,
Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: axa on February 11, 2007, 02:34:42 PM

Hops,

I dont think you sounded bossy either, I think you sounded caring and concerned.  When I read your post Write, my stomach went AHHHHHHHHHHH maybe my projection.  I love that we care about each other so much here.  I value the honesty and the true friendship I see here. 

I think your post about second guessing yourself was very interesting.  I do this also.  What was the motivation etc.  Sometimes we act from our hearts from a place of care of others.  So NON N.

If I meet a guy you all will be the first to know and I will ask you to walk with me through whatever happens.  I trust the truth of people here.

Write - good luck and do take care.

axa

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on February 11, 2007, 08:10:24 PM

It can be useful having someone say what you may not want to hear. I just thought you were voicing an opinion Hops, and urging me not to get involved with someone whose traits you were wary of.

It didn't make me defensive at all, I just thought about it some more.

The only thing I can think is it is my new church, and if it didn't work out would he or I be upset to work and worship together....but I have a track record of workign through difficulties now, even with really painful people. And I don't think he's that.

I'll be very in the moment next time I see him.

Also I am finding it very useful to keep very busy at the start of a new relationship- even been out with all my guy friends and groups of friends more, so I don't start daydreaming or obsessing too much, also feel like I have lots of options and alternatives ( which I do )

I actually feel quite attractive for the first time in years! Part of that is that ex isn't undermining it too I think- he clearly finds me very attractive too. I know that doesn't really matter any more in one sense, but in another it is so indicative of his progress- that he enjoys the fact his ex wife who no longer wants him is healing...

I cannot tell you how happy it makes me to see that and feel hopeful for his future too.

Well, think I'll go walk the dog and go see a movie then swim, life is full of good things these days, and I've been with other people all week so a few solitary hours will clear my head.

Thanks for caring about me, you are all so kind.

Love

~W

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: gratitude28 on February 11, 2007, 08:28:04 PM

Hops, (and sorry write to butt in on your line here)
I do the same thing... try to be helpful and then think maybe I was wrong to do it. Were you conditioned that way? I am almost sure I was. I remember my mother quitting smoking. Then she started again. I gave her an ugly look when she lit up and she startes screaming (with my fiance visiting), "Why do you hate me?" And if I ever ask about a diet or self-improvememnet thing she is doing (they are weekly and she talks about them, so I think it will be helpful to ask sometimes) she gets nasty and mean. Like one time lately, I asked if she was still not smoking (they quit about the same time I quit drinking - I live far away so I don't know what they are up to) ahe got really nasty and said, "Yeah, and are you drinking yet?" Then she realized it was a horrible think to spat out and tried to backpedal.
So I know that's why I am quick to retract any help or support I offer anyone. I am a lot stronger with it now.
Write, I wish I could give some insight on The Guy. It's been a while since I've done the dating-thing. But I think Hops' observations are great ones to keep in mind. Really, it is hard to tell what a person is like in the very beginning. It's good to give it a bit of time and see how he ends up revealing himself.
Love, Beth

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on February 17, 2007, 10:53:27 PM

smokers have the biggest denial of any addiction I think- maybe because it's the one which is most distorted reality, I mean, it isn't even fun really or consciousness-altering or anything....not to beat up any smokers btw, I've done it myself. But now I look back and of all the things I have done it's the one the most incomprehensible!

****

Re the guy, it's been such a learning curve to have feelings for someone sweet and caring who feels the same even if we aren't goign to be attached I suspect. I think he's been out of town on an interview, he wouldn't tell me directly because he said there's other people he can't tell me first. But I can sense him and I think he's ready to move on. I think it is the right thing for him too- he is brilliant and much of his work trouble is not being in the right place, and I am the one who has encouraged him to do as I have and step into the life flow and trust and be carried along by his own creativity....it feels less like attachment and more like love than I have ever felt in a romantic way.

He oscillates toward me and away from me, I know now it is because he does not want to hurt me, and he is so calm and loving with me and I am with him.

Should I push to spend more time with him, develop this romance anyway in the time we have? I don't know, and this is new for me but I feel in some ways that I would rather have a few weeks of wonderful and deal with the uncertainty and maybe sense of loss than have surety and a lifetime of nothing special.

I live so much more 'in the moment' now the trauma has receded and I have my illness managed.

It's been great practice for me, to go through all the uncertainty and sensing each other and coded talk and misunderstandings etc and realise when I'm projecting or we're triggering each other and communicate and not fall apart or take things personally.

This is the closest I have ever come to the relationship and partner I would like, so it's pretty big for me.

If he is leaving I feel sad but a poem by Marina Tsvetaeva comes to mind:

No one has taken anything away--
   there is even a sweetness for me in being apart.
I kiss you now across the many
   hundreds of miles that separate us.

I know: our gifts are unequal, which is
   why my voice is--quiet, for the first time.
What can my untutored verse
   matter to you, a young Derzhavin?

For your terrible flight I give you blessing.
   Fly, then, young eagle! You
have stared into the sun without blinking.
   Can my young gaze be too heavy for you?

No one has ever stared more
   tenderly or more fixedly after you . . .
I kiss you across hundreds of
   separating years.

           ***

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on February 25, 2007, 09:10:39 PM

well here I am 80% through these weeks I was worried about, and pretty much on track.

I'm going down to the court on wednesday to file the final divorce papers. I'm ready now, we all are.

The guy I had had a crush on when I started the thread I see around and honestly I am fine with him, friendly but no anxieties at all. I'm glad things didn't progress there, he seems nice but not for me!

I haven't started dating, though I do get more attention from men and I am not rebuffing it all, but I do really like the guy at church and he likes me; he's started talking about the future in this job again, maybe he changed his mind about leaving. I've stopped spending so much time with him at church though- it feels like a sort-of substitute emotional relationship is developing and it's not what I want.

Another friend has been showing interest, he called and asked me out tonight but I couldn't go and he sounded disappointed.

So I am getting gradually more confident with that. And even without guys, my social life is wonderful again!

Work couldn't be better, not perfect but I am handling the hiccups as they come and have as much work as I am prepared to do, in fact I am turning work down some weeks.

College didn't work out yet, or writing, though I do plan to schedule some concentrated down-time soon for writing.

And my weight loss is still steady at 1-2 lbs dropping per week, one week I gained two with a pasta party (!) so I exercised extra the next week and lost 3 lbs.

The situation which precipitated this thread was ex and his moodiness and depression. Again this week we've had a row about parenting and appropriate attitudes ( he taught my son there is no G_d and all religion is evil! ) but again we have worked through it and he is really trying to change his behaviour. He barely can, so just trying to is big for him and our son sees it and it helps.

Today I was at my old church, the one where it was all trauma, and not only did I feel incredibly at peace, I enjoyed it. It's not the community for me, but it was fine to visit and be with my friends for the morning.

The guy I dated came over and hugged me; I was kind but didn't return his affection, guys like him need no encouragement!

I've been to the coast this afternoon, spent time with a friend who was diagnosed with a brain tumour last month, she's weighing up her options. We laughed all afternoon and had the best time, just what we both needed to keep everything in perspective. My son came too, he asked me on the way home about friendship, and seemed happier to know I was a bit of a loner at his age too.

Things are good, I am well, my family is together.

I am glad it is spring, the trees are coming out in blossom and iridescent green and yellow pollen...I can say like Gustav Mahler: With the coming of spring, I am calm again!

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: gratitude28 on February 25, 2007, 09:21:04 PM

((((((((((((((((((write)))))))))))))))))

It is always wonderful to hear from you and see your tremendous growth!!!!!

Love, Beth

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on March 20, 2007, 04:06:51 PM

Week 17 or so.

Some of the practical things have not materialised: college and writing loads for example!

But I lost more weight eventhough I'm still not down to goal I am thinner than for many years.
I swim and walk most days.

But I no longer have a crush, though I'm friends with the guy.

Most notably I have a busy happy social life and have settled into a new church.

A new love interest hasn't de-railed me!

The biggest thing that I was writing about that prompted the thread though- exnot de-railing me- well that's been attempted several times and since we filed the final divorce papers has escalated.

I'm in weekly therapy for support with that.

~W

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on April 20, 2007, 05:52:17 PM

Okay, passed my twenty week goal!

Survived, what have I achieved?

Well I'm overall about 14 pounds lighter and a bit fitter if not the 'ideal shape' of my goal. But still heading that direction.

I'm writing and composing. Not written five chapters of my book but I now have a writing space in my life and I'm in good shape for more applied work.

My bipolar care plan is complete and morphing into a book of its own; I am sticking to it and I have a new psych doctor. I haven't been ill for over two years, each little blip has been quickly encorporated by the plan.

My social life is extremely busy and happy, but strangely since I wrote all this and went out more I am also happier being home alone some evenings. The new church I have taken a break from, it's been hard work doing all this music there and having this guy alternately idealising and devaluing me when I won't do what he wants. I find him very attractive but on other levels I think he is too conflicted and self-centred to get involved with.

I don't feel guilty about saying no but I had to work on that for a bit.

I've had quite a bit of interest from men but still no divorce and still no dating! I'll just enjoy the attention.

The guy we called El Crusho and I are now friends, I see him occasionally. No crush any more!

Having gone through the twenty weeks i was dreading the biggest thing is- I still am not divorced, and it's still on hold a bit until the summer....hopefully ex will handle it better, but I plan to just do it when I am ready, and tell him after.

But I feel stronger than I did and I won't let him derail me so much, I think eventually I will accept his behaviour.
My son does, and he copes with him far better than I do.

Next thing is get some more business or take a job and make sure I am financially secure and have health insurance.

I'm having therapy every other week now.

Everything's sort-of ongoing, but I can see a lot of progress over the past 20 weeks.

The thread has been very helpful. Thanks for letting me have the space and for supporting me.

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: isittoolate on April 20, 2007, 06:04:08 PM

Good for you Write

You post is so positive that is all I will say. If there is a negative thought in there, you appear to be handling it well

Keep up the good work!

Know where your 14# is-------It came over here and landed on my butt!!

(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/evchen2.gif)

Love
Izzy

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Stormchild on April 20, 2007, 07:49:41 PM

Write, you are an inspiration.

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on April 20, 2007, 09:07:25 PM

Write...did the new exercise habit come easily?

I'm all sedentary again and I look back...how'd this happen?

Once I get out of the habit I sort of grow anxious about exercise, mini-exercisophobic.

Once years ago when I swam vigorously after years out of the pool, I got strong heart pain and it scared me so much I never swam again.

Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on April 20, 2007, 11:57:08 PM

Thanks Is, Storm, Hops.

I think the thread shows the benefit of journalling and planning really- it seems so little progress until it's written down then I can see a clear progression and development.

did the new exercise habit come easily?

well I don't overdo it Hops, if I go to the pool and swim a mile that's great but lots of days I just do some water aerobics and a few laps and hot tub.
It's not punitive any more, it's part of my self-care regime.

I'm off there in a minute, i just wanted to come be with my family a bit.
Son worried me earlier, even ex didn't say anything about me being here, he was a bit upset too!
But son seems fine. i guess I panic too much.

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: teartracks on April 21, 2007, 01:01:12 AM

WRITE,

Thanks for sharing your twenty week plan journey.   Way to go!  Now I want to do it too! 

tt 

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on April 21, 2007, 06:55:31 PM

I have had such a stressful week this week and this is the first time I can say ahnd on heart that I have coped with it!

A year or two ago i would have been running to a bottle or getting sick or falling apart....

Today was going well until one of my patients fell during a group; of course it's horrible to see and some of the staff got in a state, but I stayed really calm, took over a bit when no one seemed to be taking charge effectively at first, then backed off and let the staff handle it whilst the paramedics came. I entertained and distracted the rest of the people with one of the staff and visitors and a patient, it was all handled very well. The injured lady gave me a kiss and said she'll be in my group next week which made me smile.

But often these things trigger a response later for me- the production of adrenalin and cortisol triggers agitation and mania, so it is good to see I am really calm a couple of hours later and not obsessively thinking about it or blaming myself or any of the other things I have a tendency to do.

It's like I can spot these things in advance, and circumvent them better.

I thought about todays accident on the way home. I didn't leave until I was sure everyone involved was okay, the woman was gone to hospital and the other patients were all calm and busy. I felt like I did everything I could and as good a job as I could and a lot of the 'perfectionism' which has plagued me at work is fading now I do this little exercise then put it away. I've never been able to handle let alone control emotions before, this is a really big change for managing my life.

Now I want to do it too!  

go Teartracks, I'd love to see your 20 week plan!

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: axa on April 22, 2007, 05:02:29 AM

Write,

It is so uplifting to read of your progess.  I admire you for sticking to so much.  I have my list of things to do and today I was thinking how I have been slipping but took out my list and I can cross off many things.  For me staying motivated is the difficulty I struggle with.  I am a great starter but tend to loose momentum........... reading your post has kick started me again.

Many many thanks,

axa

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on May 30, 2007, 06:18:18 PM

For me staying motivated is the difficulty I struggle with.  I am a great starter but tend to loose momentum...........

I have been thinking today it is getting started which often phases me- I'm fine once I do but I suspect it is a residual perfectionism holds me back a lot; until I can visualise the whole of something I don't want to begin.

Once I do begin I don't want to stop until I end....

I pulled this thread up because it was about my impending divorce, and then I put that on hold.

Next week or asap I plan to re-submit the papers and complete the process.

So I will need to

*iron out the financial details
*research health insurance

then when it is finalised
*organise health and car insurance

Everything else is now in my own independent name.

It's all okay, I panicked a bit several times but the process is going as well as it could.

***

The lady who fell dancing in one of my groups is almost recovered- remarkable!
She was teasing me last week that she was going to get up and do high kicks.

I'll do a few of them myself if I can get divorced finally!

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on May 31, 2007, 02:48:06 PM

Ami it's been so hard-it's been like cutting out a brain tumour, one tiny link here, a leaking blood vessel there, severed nerves...all trying not to do more damage and be respectful of surrounding organisms rather than dash the offending presence off and respond with cruelty and haste!

Was it not John Donne who likened G_d to a surgeon in his metaphysical poetry:

Is not your last act harsh and violent,
As when a plough a stony ground doth rent?....

And such in searching wounds the surgeon is,
As we, when we embrace, or touch, or kiss.
Leave her[him], and I will leave comparing thus,
he and comparisons are odious.

Smile....

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: lighter on June 01, 2007, 03:08:47 PM

I hope your hanging in there Write.  I missed this thread and have to catch up.   Sorry you're having such a hard time but it looks like you have a good plan and your job was going well in that first post.  I'll keep reading and see how things are going. 

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: lighter on June 01, 2007, 06:32:27 PM

I enjoyed reading that thread so much Write.  It was like reading a very positive journal. 

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on July 19, 2007, 01:48:27 PM

well in the light of my recent 'down-ness' I decided to go pull this thread and have a look at my goals from last year and whether I am still on track.

When I started this it was to prepare me for divorce and I am now divorced!

And the issues around that ex & son/taxes/ new car/ finances are all going along reasonably calmly....my taxes are paid to September in advance for next year which is a relief.

I've had loads of work and not even advertised so I think I'll be okay with that for now.

Still to sort out health insurance, awaiting the COBRA forms.

Haven't done much studying or writing and I haven't lost more weight though I have stayed the same weight and continued daily exercising so I'm fitter, and my writign group went on a good retreat last month and I'm looking into doing formal study next year....

Relationship-wise I haven't done much except spend time with a few men and get to know them, and read some more around the topic of marriage. I'll post about the Susan Piver book Hops recommended another day.

I guess I am gradually sorting out one issue at a time, and quietly getting used to my new status and new life.

Recent stress caused a blip with my illness but I have coped with just one day's meds and a lot of sleep!

My son is getting better with happiness and behaviour, I enjoy his company often now and we are delineating acceptable when he's with me.

My life is in a different place totally to when I first started posting here, interestingly NPD isn't the main factor in my life any more. Thank G_d.....

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Ami on July 19, 2007, 01:54:11 PM

Dear WRITE,

I am really happy for you. You seem to have grown and matured. I am very , very glad to see your progress     Love  Ami

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: isittoolate on July 19, 2007, 05:37:15 PM

Good for you, WRITE

you are progressing and this is the brst of all to read:
" interestingly NPD isn't the main factor in my life any more. Thank G_d.....

That's me too,, and am working on who I am/feelings/where are they?

Love
Izzy

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: lighter on July 19, 2007, 05:45:44 PM

Write:

I'm so glad you visited this thread again.  When you were down I was thinking about your plan and how impressive it was. 

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Certain Hope on July 19, 2007, 06:33:29 PM

Dear Write,

This is is cool  :)  So refreshingly... No-NoNseNse  :D

((((((Write)))))) Thank you for the lift out of the bogs and... congratulations!!

With love,
Hope

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on July 19, 2007, 10:31:17 PM

Thanks Ami/Is/lighter/CH.

I am trying to stay focussed on what is 'progress' and drop all the other baggage!

Son was dreadful behaviour again tonight.
I got in and ex said a few minutes later he was going to bed.
I am not talking to him about it for now, I think he is somewhat enjoying the fact son is making life diffciult for me, thinks it serves me right some way.

He also looks depressed so maybe NPD not beign a major factor might switch.

But who cares?
There really isn't anything he hasn't done or I haven't coped with in some way.
Maybe it's time I toughened up.

Church guy was at the concert, arrived late, didn't come sit with me and was unfriendly. It was him who invited me so that's a bit weird, and we talked earlier.
That's three times now, so that's me done.

Well a couple of friends called just, son is apologetic if unrepentent downstairs, I'm going to walk the dog and swim, then go back to my apartment and drink hot tea and watch some comedy.

I discovered TV recently, the comedy channel, so I watch an hour of Seinfeld or Everybody Loves Raymond or Friends, it's a new 'comfort habit'.

Goodnight everyone, hope all are well.

Love
Write

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: lighter on July 19, 2007, 10:38:12 PM

I had a feeling about that church boy. 

Sorry he got weird on you. 

All men aren't weird, Write.

I know a couple that are downright wonderful.... many that are just nice people. 

You have to be choosey about people ::nodding::

Nite

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on July 20, 2007, 05:35:48 PM

I had a feeling about that church boy. 

you mentioned it  :)

It's not him, he is who he is, it's my reaction to who he is.
Another time I wouldn't take any notice and he'd either sit up and behave or go away, actually I think we're both a bit disappointed that neither of us is ready for a relationship and then son was acting out and I needed either support with that or to be left alone with that....I think he's a bit afraid of getting too involved actually; and that's my fault for testing him out so much.

I clearly don't have enough trust yet to start a relationship!

But something did solidify in me last night, leaving the concert cross with son and sorting him out and not taking the problem to ex. This is the way it is:

I don't have anyone to lean on.
My son is the most important person in my life.
Even if I don't have any more children I have him to raise as best I can in trying circumstances.
I'll meet someone or make a relationship with one of these guys when it's better timing, there's just too much going on right now.
I want to concentrate my spare energy on bringing my career projects to fruition and making my life secure as I can for myself.

I guess a period of mourning is moving into acceptance and the next phase of my life.

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: lighter on July 20, 2007, 05:54:36 PM

Wow.... Write:

Reading that last part of your post was like listening to someone expertly set a table with fine silver and bone china.

The tinks and plinks of competent motion and mindful intention.  Very satisfying and filled with economy of motion and purpose.

The one place I didn't feel that was in your first paragraph..... "..I think he's a bit afraid of getting too involved actually; and that's my fault for testing him out so much.'

'I clearly don't have enough trust yet to start a relationship!"

Especially the part where you say it's your fault for testing him out so much.  That still doesn't give him the right to invite you to a concert then be aloof and avoid you.  I have to throw a flag on that call.  There're better ways to slow things down or express fear.  Remember, this guy was pushing for a relatioship, do I have that right?  It just doesn't ring right that you see this as your fault, in any way.  ::shrug::

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on July 20, 2007, 06:02:56 PM

Me too Write.
You are a lady!

But it was a red flag for me, too, your making excuses for church boy's erratic behavior.

I know you have empathy up to your eyebrows and can understand all of his behavior in the most forgiving light.
That's part of what's so lovely about you. It's why you can still love and forgive your X for his Nishness, and see the actual love that also exists in parts of him, as real and worthy.

Still...all this forgivingness is wonderful spiritually, but not so helpful for you practically if you'd like a reciprocal supportive partnership one day. I am not suggesting that you abandon forgiveness, but just start to NOT be attracted to men who are such "challenges."

We're all here so well-trained to love the bad boys, or particularly the "unavailable" boys. Oooo, the challenge! Again (and again) we get to demonstrate our core kindness, our grasp of spiritual love. Of course we can love them! Do we even know that it's essential that we preceive real, not fantasized, reciprocity from the get-go? That's being loved BACK. We forget that part...

Can't say strongly enough how it's finally hit me that unavailable covers unclear, ambivalent, not ready, not sure, erratic, anxious...all that. Those men are unavailable.

I think Men Who Can't Love would be a very helpful book for you, hon. Was for me anyway. I probably over-identify so forgive me if I project too much, just take what's helpful and ignore the rest...

love
Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on July 20, 2007, 06:53:39 PM

Thanks Hops and lighter,

I've been just as messed-up in my own behaviour though.
And unclear, ambivalent, not ready, not sure, erratic, anxious
I'm pretty emotionally unavailable myself really.

I think it's the Buddhist part of my spirituality more than Jesus teachings, not so much forgiveness as detachment, which makes me not angry with these people.

It would be like being angry with my own reaction to them, if you see what I mean.

When I am well I expect that I will engender different reactions from others, but right now I know I give out just as many mixed messages and pull people towards me then push them away.

Just because I'm not rude or unpleasant doesn't mean I'm being reasonable either.

I shouldn't be trying to do a relationship at all right now, the timing is just not right. I'm not right. Yet.

I guess it has served a purpose of making me feel like I am still attractive and there are men out there, but I am coming to the conclusion it won't matter who I meet, I'll screw it up almost subconsiously until I am in a good place with other things, ex and son most importantly.

There's a sense of life passing me by which gave me a feeling of urgency for a while, but that is passed and I feel calmer.

I'm just going to keep putting one foot in front of the other for a while and let the rest of the trauma wash away.

My life is full of good things, I don't have to have everything I ever wanted right now....

There's a sense of dying about letting go a marriage isn't there. I've been clinging onto the ideals of the marriage even after I divorced, still looking for signs of not having wasted time, of there being things to salvage and things to come.

Like I say, my trust isn't high.
It'll grow if I keep taking care of myself.

I probably over-identify so forgive me if I project too much, just take what's helpful and ignore the rest...

your experience was marrying an even bigger NPD on the rebound?

I just read in the somewhat erratic Louise Hay book about we repeat patterns because we need to.

Not sure I quite agree with that, but we do repeat what is familiar and what we already know how to deal with even if it's not the best choice.

It's like tv repeats, they have some kind of hold and we don't change channel no matter how boring or unrealistic the unfolding scenario we already know is going to happen!

Reciprocity is a good feeling, but I am also developing adult acceptance of this too now.
If I am waiting for people to be constant and consistent in keeping all the balances of our relationships, I will wait a long time.
In realtionships there are gaps, flaws, periods of disconnect, human frailties.
I have to develop realistic too, not keep swinging between this Mother Theresa act on my part to frustrated disappointment when someone doesn't do what I want.

My mother didn't do what I wanted.
That doesn't mean I have to spend the rest of my life looking for others who will give me the unconditional love she couldn't.

Part of why I loved ex so much and so long was exactly that, I will act like I want someone to treat me.

I need to stop putting demands on people and accept them for who they are then move closer or further depending on their behaviour and responses and how they make me feel.

And never let a sense of desperation or overwhelming need drive me to relationships.
I can stay home and be alone for those times, or go to my closest friends.

With church guy we both have so many shared life experiences it's becoming a litany of misery and making each other feel off-balance and insecure.

The answer to that is clear- distance.

He isn't my close friend or partner and I shouldn't act like he is or should be either in my mind or in real life.

I can do this on my own, I don't need to lean on anyone and where I absolutely must I want it to be you guys or my most reliable friends, not get into unhelpful relationships and patterns with people who have also had a bad time!

I think I am clear now about where I begin and end, and where other people do. It's been sort-of blurred before....

Church guy knows that because he had those same distressing early years ( his younger sibling actually died from their neglect ) so we fit together well on this way of relating which people do who have been abandonned and who try to do bonds within the limitations of that damage.

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: lighter on July 20, 2007, 08:04:15 PM

Quote from: WRITE on July 20, 2007, 06:53:39 PM

Thanks Hops and lighter,

I've been just as messed-up in my own behaviour though.
And unclear, ambivalent, not ready, not sure, erratic, anxious
I'm pretty emotionally unavailable myself really.

Ummmmm... as I recall, chuch boy was pressing you for a monogomous comittment uyou told him you weren't ready for. 

You told him so and he pressed, trying to turn your polite, "Not ready yet" into a definitive "yes." 

That was my first red flag and there is nothing ambivalent about your answer to him.  You were clear and just bc he chose not to honor your feelings doesn't mean you were ambivalent.... like you aren't allowed to be ambivalent now anyway.  Pshew!

He may be cute and charming and popular with the girls but.... that still doesn't mean he can pick you like fruit off a tree bc he's in the mood to "pick" you.   

I might be remembering this wrong, correct me if I did: )


Heh, church boy.  I crack myself up. 

I gotta tell ya..... in general, if a man tries to turn your No into a Yes, that's a red flag.  I don't care if he has a very valid reason and dysfuntional childhood.... it doesn't change the fact that he's not honoring you and your decision.  He's trying to exert his will over yours and that's a number one red flag. 

The second one is when they do something that is irresponsible towards us or not nice then try to gain our sympathy afterwards which will lead to the question..... "what did/does church boy have to say about the way he treated you at the concert?  Just wondering.

I may be all wrong here.... I'm just saying and in general, these are good rules to live by, no matter who you're dealing with. 


As for making decisions from a place of fear or desperation..... that's not a good place to make decisions from.  You recognize that and I go in and out of it too.  So hard to stop doing it but it comes and goes.  Time, distance and perspective will help heal that. 

Being happy on our own is a good thing.  I don't think that's  a problem as long as you have a friend or two to touch base with, keep your feet on the ground, someone you can tell your truth to and still be accepted and loved.   

I don't mind being alone. 

It's so much better than living with an N. 

I wouldn't be so hard on yourself about being a bit "unreasonable" during this transition through the divorce.  If you aren't perfect company all the time then you're just normal.  There's an ajustment period that lasts at least a year so cut yourself some slack.  You're allowed to go slow, test the waters and be ambivalent if that's what you feel like doing. 

I guess the important thing is to get comfortable feeling how you feel and being able to share that with others?

How they react isn't your fault or responsibilty.

What I pick up most from your post is that you think you need to take responsibility for something here that you aren't responsible for, if that makes sense?

You may give out mixed messages, you may change your mind and you may feel free to express those feelings as you have them. 

Don't turn it into a reason to feel guilty.  That's what's buggin me about this.  You seem to feel a bit of guilt about church boy and I wonder why that is.  I don't understand that: /

  I think I can let that go now, lol. 

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: Hopalong on July 21, 2007, 12:27:55 AM

Oh, Write--you sound wonderful.
Just totally full of awareness, responsibility, and sense.
I am so impressed with your deep sense of responsibility.
Really. I almost never hear you blame anybody for anything.
You are a wise woman.

I loved what you said about not having to have every single thing you want in life right now.
(I could have used that bit of reality in so many self-sabotaging situations.) I honor you for this--it's big and it's SMART.

You remember exactly right--I went from a non-NPD but very selfish H¹, through divorce, and within 2 years was married to TOTALLY N pathological liar and conscience-free H² immature very damaged abusive man.

Was I done? Heavens no. In the 10 years since divorcing him I had about 4 bfs, at least 3 of them raving Ns. The last one was 2 years ago...and this time, for the first time, it has felt GOOD not to date, not to be in a hurry.

Every time I start to think, oh well, get out there...I find myself thinking, hmmm, but I'd rather build a business, play with my dog, whatever. And that's absolutely okay with me. I have no doubts left about whether it's okay to be alone. There are times when I definitely get lonely, but those feelings are no longer coupled with my old internal insistence that only a romantic relationship can complete the picture.

I still would like one. I hope for one. But I'm not expecting it and I'm too busy to be miserable if it doesn't happen.

Long detour, sorry...but thanks for your deep post, Write.

love
Hops

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on July 22, 2007, 02:00:44 PM

I gotta tell ya..... in general, if a man tries to turn your No into a Yes, that's a red flag.

don't think I entirely agree with that one, I think for most people there's a bit of back and forth especially at the start of establishing a relationship!

That's what's buggin me about this.  You seem to feel a bit of guilt about church boy and I wonder why that is.  I don't understand that: /

  I think I can let that go now, lol. 

thanks lighter, but I don't feel a bit guilty really I don't.
Just wanting to accept my part in what is happening.

Actually I think what is happening is two people who are attracted to each other meet at a bad time, is all.

Every time we get near each other we start to trigger all kinds of stuff.

Now I'm a bit more used to all this self-development stuff, I know the answer isn't to try and work on him or work on 'us', the answer is to go away and work on myself some more, give myself some more time and space.

within 2 years was married to TOTALLY N pathological liar and conscience-free H2 immature very damaged abusive man.


I'm sorry. That must have been so difficult.
Glad you got out of it, and see why you have been so protective of me and wary.

Thanks for that!   :)

only a romantic relationship can complete the picture.

I'd love a romantic relationship but am beginning to see the reason I am not in one and the reason I was with ex...it's about me more than anything.

I meet loads of men, men with a mutual attraction.

I'm just not ready....

It panics me to think I missed something, but really every choice misses something else, two roads diverge in a yellow wood, and all that....

I'll wait until I stop grieving, so a new relationship isn't about fixing anything!

Thanks, love to everyone.

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: lighter on July 22, 2007, 04:03:55 PM

Quote from: WRITE on July 22, 2007, 02:00:44 PM

I gotta tell ya..... in general, if a man tries to turn your No into a Yes, that's a red flag.

 Write writes: don't think I entirely agree with that one, I think for most people there's a bit of back and forth especially at the start of establishing a relationship!

This is information of the 'intellectual' type.  I read it in a book called STRONG ON DEFENSE..... or was it THE POWER OF FEAR? 

Both good reads on trusting your insticts, staying out of trouble and handing yourself when you find yourself in trouble.  Self defense, self offense, that sort of thing. 

I didn't really understand it when I read it but I've spent some time looking at my relationships.  Mostly with men who I knew weren't right and was up front with them on that point.  They broke their necks changing my answer and then spent the rest of their time breaking mine, once they had me.  (figuratively) 

Take a look at your past relationships.... what do you see?

Also..... violent predators set us up by making us feel guilty for saying NO and changing out minds with guilt. 

Example:  You're on your into your apartment building when a passing gentleman offers assistance.  You say 'No, thank you.'  He says...'Oh.... I'm injured.... I offer my assistance to a damsel and she refuses my assistance. It's only a little help with groceries, not dinner and a movie'  ::charming grin:: 

You know you look like you could use some help but your gut just tells you to say not but he persists... and takes a bag from your arms and moves through the entrance to your building all smiles and charm.  ::BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP::  The last place you want , to end up is alone under his control in a place that affords him privacy.  If he's Mr. Right, he'll respect your NO and you can take note that he did..... and remember it. 

Nuff said. 

You sound good, Write.

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on July 23, 2007, 03:04:20 PM

This is information of the 'intellectual' type.  I read it in a book called STRONG ON DEFENSE..... or was it THE POWER OF FEAR? 

I think at the start of a relationship we just don't know enough about the other person to be sure of them yet.
In fact my expereince has been even after knowing someone for a while things have changed when circumstances changed.
A lot of people are great when everything is going their way and horrible in the face of stress or problems!

My feeling with this guy is he is a decent guy but he has some high emotions around relationships and isn't really ready for a relationship; I suspect I am in the same place, maybe that's why we're attracted?

Take a look at your past relationships.... what do you see?

my relationships tend to have been ongoing. Ex is difficult but as much my friend as he is able to be.

Other guys I haven't done long-term relationships with because I've mostly been married, but they are still friendly and there's no animosity or drama.

That guy I dated who turned out to have loads of women, he and I meet occasionally in passing and are civil to each other, I wouldn't want to get involved with him closely, his values are very different than mine.

I'm very independent in nature because of the bipolar, I think a lot of men see that as a bit of a challenge, the player types. But I am getting to spot them and also careful not to give out messages that I am available for casual relationships. A lot of it is that I think, a mis-interpretation when one person wants a fling the other a serious relationship.

I can only do serious relationships I think, it's not worth all the hormone and emotional turmoil for anything else.

Thanks for all your pointers on this, Lighter, I am keeping it all close to heart as I wander around the wider world again!

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: lighter on July 23, 2007, 05:36:37 PM

Hmmmmm.... I have some interesting insights on dating..... if you're ever interested.

I've been single most of my life: /

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: WRITE on July 23, 2007, 09:34:32 PM

I have some interesting insights on dating

I'm all ears!!!!

Title: Re: Twenty week plan!
Post by: lighter on July 23, 2007, 11:02:12 PM

Quote from: WRITE on July 23, 2007, 09:34:32 PM

I have some interesting insights on dating

I'm all ears!!!!

::grin::