Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: penelope on November 21, 2006, 01:36:14 AM
-
Why does it feel taboo to talk of my SO here? Anyway..
My dog has been sick for two weeks. On Friday, I called my b/f at work (I worked from home, only in the morning that day) and asked if he could help me take the dog to the vet in the afternoon. B/F sounded cheerful and helpful on the phone - "sure, no problem, I'll meet you at home, what time?"
When he arrived, he was in a very foul mood, and I was immediately sorry I'd asked him for help. Basically, he was angry about his day (but wouldn't talk to me about the details of it), and I felt he was taking it out on me, for no apparent reason. I noted this, but did not bring up that I was displeased. I needed to get the dog to the vet as I was very worried about him – this was priority 1. He said something to me like “did I ask the Vet about X (can’t remember what X is now – I think it was one of the dog’s specific symptoms),” like this was key, in a blaming voice (I felt). He was referring to the last time I had taken the dog in, which was about a week prior – I took the dog myself then. I responded (somewhat exasperated) – look, I told the Vet Tech about all the symptoms, and they wrote them down. This time I plan to speak directly to the Vet, though, since I’m not sure the tech stressed all these (X included). "Could you try to help me and not grill me?" Then I said something like: “OK I’m going to ask them about a Heartworm refill; you ask to see the X-rays again, K? (since he had also been questioning me about whether the vet took pictures of his throat - and I couldn’t really remember – although I said I didn’t think so).
When we got to the clinic, the vet tech saw us first and after she left, while waiting for the Vet, I pulled out a brochure and said "here's a pamphlet describing parasites, do you want to read it?" B/F looked mad, and said "no." I felt hurt since we had been brainstorming possibilities earlier, and we’d had narrowed them down to (at least I had): A) B/F gave the dog two steak bones - a piece of the bone might be caught in the dog's throat, or had cut his throat which was now irritated/infected. The X-rays taken prior had only been of his intestines/stomach, which showed no foreign body, but maybe it was in his throat/chest. B) Despite normal white and red blood cell counts, my dog has a case of Kennel cough (dry coughing/hacking and vomiting being the classic symptoms) C) My dog has parasites (worms).
My b/f seems to me to act passive aggressively like this (saying “no” to my idea of him researching worms) a lot. This is probably nothing new, but I think that since the novelty of our relationship is starting to wear off - we've been living together 2 years - I'm starting to notice it more. This typically takes the form of: 1) not answering any of my questions, or commenting back when I make statements (such as brainstorming what might be wrong with my dog and/or worrying aloud) 2) acting bored/irritated (superior?) 3) acting highly anxious. Today, he’s doing all of the above, plus 4) continually citing that he's had a bad day at work and thus I should be more sympathetic is implied 5) walks out before the exam is over, demanding the keys and saying he'll go next door to the grocery store to get Xantac for the dog as this was one of the things the vet said we could give him for upset stomach/gastritis. I say, "Oh, can you get eggs and coffee too - we need those.." 6) This upsets him more and he initially says "no - it will take too long," but eventually begrudgingly says "OK." The exam ends in about 15 minutes, I checkout and leave. I call him on his cell but he doesn't answer (although when leaving he had told me – 7) Make sure you have your cell phone on!). My dog and I wait outside the vet clinic, we're staring at our car, so we know he's still in the grocery store. 10, maybe 15 minutes later, he shows up with beer and the supplies (Xantac, eggs, coffee), smiling.
I know he’s going to get angrier, but I say “we have to go get the special dog food (Vet told us to get) now – there’s a pet store close by…” B/F questions exactly where we are going, and since I’m nervous, I say the wrong thing – I say “the old CVS pharmacy,” then (a little too harshly) “what street is it on?” I say this to hopefully get him working with me, rather than against me. If he’s thinking of where we should be turning, maybe he won’t criticize my driving, which he typically does (note: I don’t normally drive, he does, and we carpool to work). He tells me every turn to make, which is probably a good thing as now I’m so flustered, I don’t know where to turn, although we are 3 blocks from home.
He stays in the car with the dog and I go in for the food. Of course, they don’t have it, so I search for something similar, realizing he’s probably getting angrier and angrier as this isn’t going quickly. I finally settle on three types of canned food, none of which are the right stuff. I buy all three and exasperated, ask the cashier if they have the right stuff – she says “I don’t know, but that guy (points at the manager who is close by) would know, go ask him.” This causes me more anxiety cause he’s already talking to another customer, and I don’t want to interrupt. I pay for the food, pretend like I’m going to go ask him (or wait my turn to ask him), but then at the last minute I duck out of the store. B/F is in the car, talking to his Mom. He’s telling her how the dog’s sick.
Eventually, he hangs up, but doesn’t say anything to me. I ask, “was that your Mom?” “Yes,” he says, “she hopes the dog gets better soon.” (kind of curt). I state they did not have the “right stuff.” He pretends like or actually doesn’t hear me. I ask timidly…”do you want to get something to eat real quick?” “NO,” he snaps, “I want to go straight home, I’ve had a rough day at work.” I don’t say anything, but my eyebrows raise about ½ inch, mainly because this very scenario played out about a week ago, only it was me asking to go straight home – and guess what he said then? “You’re acting like a spoiled brat, I just need to stop real quick, and you can just wait.“ I think about this, but decide its not a good time to bring this up. We go home, me feeling like I'm not being supported, fully, him still angry about work (why is he taking it out on me? I think). Later, I tell him calmly that I feel like he's been taking his bad day out on me and that it's not fair, plus some other words I can’t remember now. He gets angry and says that all he wants is for me to hold him and sympathize cause he's had a bad day. I state: "I don't think it's a good idea for you to ask me to hold you when I feel afraid of you (which I did, as his anger directed at me was unjustifiable, I felt). I don't cave, rather, I hide out in another room of the house and try to go to sleep, petting my dog and feeling very tired and worried from the day's events. He finds me, and is a little calmer. Eventually I start sobbing hysterically thinking about how sad I will be without my dog (if he were to die). B/F asks: “why are you crying?” seeming, genuinely, to be concerned. I say “because, I don’t want __(my dog’s name)__ to die.” He rubs my back a little and jokes a bit, and tells me not to worry, the “teet” (our nickname for the dog) will be fine.
That was Friday. Fast forward to today. It’s Monday. I am now sick (nasty cold, sinus infection or flu, most likely) and the dog is still showing symptoms, although does appear to be improving – probably because of the antibiotics they gave him. I poke around all day, not doing much, a little cleaning, after sleeping in…I call my B/F at lunch (he’s friendly). He stays at work an hour late. Please note that he’s supposed to be on vacation all this week and is also “feeling sick” (or so he says). He comes home late, and asks how I’m doing. I tell him I feel bad – my head is all fuzzy. He says “I feel sick too.” He proceeds to do his thing, and eventually asks if I want some soup. He lists a few: I say, “I don’t think I like those.” Eventually I offer: “you could make me some posole” (he’s going to be making this for his work party in a week anyway, so we have all the ingredients). He says “that takes too long, I’m too tired to make that.” I say, “I’ll make it for myself then.”
A little later, I’m in one of the bedrooms ironing curtains with the door closed. He asks if he can come in. I let him in. He says “what are you doing?” I tell him. He seems surprised, like he’s seeing me for the first time – like ironing curtains is a hidden talent he did not know I possessed. I keep ironing. Eventually, I state (I’m not capturing the exact wording nor tone, here, but you get the gist), in as good a monotone as I can muster: “I’m disappointed that you can’t make me soup, but you managed to work a 9 hour day today. If you ask me, you care more about that place [where we work] than you do about us (the dog and I). And guess what? Those guys don’t give a sh*t about you. Do you think they care that you’re putting in all these extra hours? Do you think they care about you? Is work some sort of surrogate parent for you, where you keep trying to prove yourself to them, just like you do with your Dad? Where you keep doing more than everyone else? That place will bend, but [the dog] and I won’t bend. In fact, we’re at the point of breaking. And the sad thing is you don’t even see it. I still don’t know what we’re doing for Thanksgiving. People, our friends, invited us over, and you declined for us, without even asking me what I wanted to do [he interrupts me to deny this but I keep talking] You told me a few days ago, that [work] had ruined your vacation. But what about me? What about my vacation? Since I thought I was going to be spending it with you, is my vacation now ruined too? [interrupts again to say: he "can just stay at home," as he "doesn't have to do anything special for holidays”] Oh, that’s great, so you think you can just make this decision to stay home and do nothing, cause that’s what you like to do, and not even ask me (I snap back). Well, I think I’d like to go somewhere. So me and the dog are planning on doing something. [we can do something if you want, you never said you wanted to go anywhere – like he’s invited]. This holiday is turning out exactly like the last and the one before it. You only care about yourself, you’re not even thinking of me. [Work] isn’t ruining our holiday, you are by your behavior. You could have told them no. You could have involved me in your decisions and in your life.”
Anyway, the thing that is really starting to get to me is that my B/F has an emotional world I know nothing about (or very little). My therapist says guys are different; they only know about half the words women know. They have a hard time describing their feelings and communicating. But – this is getting ridiculous, I think. It’s not like I’m asking for Everest. I want a description of an ant hill. Intimacy is non-existent in our relationship – the illusion of it keeps slipping. The only meaningful conversations (I think) we ever have, are the ones he later describes as “fights.” This is when he finally lets his guard down because he thinks he’s going to lose me. Later, he complains that he always has to come to me first – I don’t come to him, and that this is going to “break” our relationship cause one day he’s not going to come to me. I don’t think I can stand it much longer. At first I thought we weren’t communicating. Now I believe we are, but it is some sort of sick twisted game he’s playing, without knowing the why or how. Something I’ve noticed that is really sickening to me is: I’ve been reading all these books about Narcissistic parents, and psychology, and going to a therapist myself for the past year. To my knowledge, he has not read or researched any of this. But – what he has a gift for, is taking a concept I’ve introduced to him (which he’s only half listened to) and trying to turn it around on me. So he’ll use a snipit of something I’ve said to him, but he’ll use it out of context, or inappropriately, and try to justify his behavior or point out something wrong that I’m doing, citing it. For example, the other day, he told me I was “projecting something from my parents.” I’m certain he doesn’t even know what projecting is, but he’s now heard me say it enough times he thinks he can use this every time he’s "losing" an argument. BTW, I'm not trying to argue with him, I'm trying to state my needs/feelings/wishes, plainly, such that he might understand me - he claims I'm starting arguments. *sigh*
I know I have very little objectivity in this. I also know I’m Far from perfect, when it comes to communicating. Like, I need Communication for Couples 101, for starters. But, is there a way for two non-communicators to work this out? Where do we even start? I feel like if we could just begin putting one foot in front of the other, we could possibly get somewhere. This is a person who, if you asked him to learn Greek for his job, he would learn Greek. In other words, intellectually, he has the capability to do anything he really wants to do. I believe that I too, have the desire to learn. How is it that we both seem to screw up our good intentions so badly then? We both want to be in this relationship and we both want it to work (ie, to be happy). I think.
bean
-
Hi pbean,
Well, I would definitely agree with your therapist that guys are different animals, come from different planets and all those other cliches. I also know that there have been many times when my husband has put work before us and our interactions were very much like what you are describing. I'll tell you, after his last promotion, he was such a jerk for a while that I wondered who or what was this thing I married...
Well, and to be stright up... I think it's harder sometimes when you aren't married (if you are looking for the kind of complete committment that you kinda get from a paper...). Can I be forward and ask if it's soemthing just not on the plate or if you just don't like the idea????? Would it make any difference if you did make a permanent deal out of your relationship????? Again, forgive me if I am prying, but this is not an easy topic to discuss, as I am sure you, more than anyone, know...
I think he does sound a bit passive-agressive, from your description. And, as you were very clinical in your reporting, I would guess that some of it definitely fell into a less-than-ideal realm of communication and caring.
Penelope, it is hard to give others relationship advice... love's a tricky thing. I will leave my comments there. That is my general take on things.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((penelope))))))))))))))))
Love, Beth
-
sounds to me like a lot of the stuff- fear about keeping him waiting, 'what's wrong with him now', calling you names like spoiled brat- is setting back your progress and your confidence.
You sound very anxious.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Bean))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
-
thank you beth, couldbe and write
I know how difficult it is to offer advice in these sorts of matters.
Write - you're correct in that I'm starting to feel as anxious as I did in my last relationship with the alcoholic. I toyed with the idea that my B/F is addicted to work, and thus when I ask him to "quit," he rationalizes why he cannot. I also worry that he's addicted to other things, I don't know about. Is this an irrational fear? I don't know. I worry his family which I initially thought was great, is just as dysfunctional as mine. I'm worried he is a Hero child, though, and is thus so enmeshed he's clueless about his role and addiction to "serving" his parents.
Our sex life has been very strained (almost non-existent). But we've both been under a lot of stress and are on anti-anxiety meds, which decrease libido anyway. I also thought it had a lot to do with me obsessing/complaining about my boss all the time, so I was "not in the mood" - but now we have something new to focus on - his anger at his new job. I told him: "our relationship can't handle another year like last year where I was continually angry about my work situation, and you were giving advice at the end rather than being sympathetic - and now you want to jump feet first into the same situation I was in. I can tell already from the last 2 weeks, that you are not going to like this job they've given you and I'm not going to like it either. I want you to tell them "no," to find someone else to do it."
Couldbe - you're very observant and caring to point out that I'm walking on egg shells. I needed to tell myself that, but was having a difficult time doing it. Sometimes I think when we (women) start to do that, it becomes a domino effect - we can't stop. Is this feeling something I need to work on individually, or should we be working on it together (I ask myself aloud). Is he "generating" the feeling in me, or am I, since my boundaries aren't quite strong enough, just not able to repel it? Do I work "through" this feeling, until it decreases, naturally?
I have suggested communication classes, since Day 1 of our relationship, recognizing this to be both of our weakness. I've gotten into the habit lately, of blaming him for not following through with his Promise to do it. He does go with me to my therapist sometimes, and we try to work through some of this, but it's just too little -the hour we have with her - to make much of a dent. The last time I was encouraged because he asked my therapist if she could recommend a good Communciation tape (book on tape type thing), or something he could read. She said she'd look into it. I did forget to follow-up with her Sat, and ask if she had thought of one. I was too stressed about everything that's been going on to think clearly. I think I'll write myself a note about it now. I need a good recommendation. There's just so much cheezy fluff out there. I'm thinking maybe Pia Mellody? Does anyone have a suggestion on what he should read?
I think I need to ask him to try to be less overbearing, as I get flustered and things go down hill from there. The passive agressiveness is something he's actually improved over our relationship. I don't know if he's learned from me it's not necessary, or if its just something he does when stressed and has been less so since he's in a relationship with me.
beth - marriage. Yes. I've finally been thinking that's what i want to happen soon - for him to ask for my hand in engagement and for us to set a future date - maybe a year or 1.5 years from now. I would like to be engaged, I think. It's been long enough and I'm ready for that level of committment. I'm not sure, given all the recent circumstances, however, that it is the ideal timing. I wonder if it'd be a bandaid on a larger problem at this point? Then again, it could be THE problem, as you suggest.
I do worry cause his last girlfriend lived with him for 10 years and they never got engaged! I don't know what went wrong with them there. That's too excessive, I believe. I could see why she might have been hurt by him waiting so long. Also, he's very non-specific about their breakup, saying "she was just crazy, she had depression and it ran in her family and I think she needed to shed something so she shed me." I've asked him why he felt OK staying in the relationship so long if it was so dysfunctional? He says he wasn't un-happy. (with a person suffering severe depression?) I say/think often at this junction in the conversation: "what if I'm just as "crazy" as she is? I come from a very screwed up family..." Of course I am starting to overanalyze it to death by now, drawing as many parallels as my pessimistic self will allow me to at this point...but he gets annoyed thinking about it and doesn't want to talk of it more, at this point.
Maybe the ex is irrelevant, maybe I should focus on us and specific things he could do to make me feel more secure in the relationship. I did list a few for him last night (it was a very long night as we "discussed" (my word choice) this, again). I said, sometimes people like to know with signs that you love them. For example, when I'm sick, you could pick up something from the store for me on the way home - a gift, something I don't need to ask for. Or if that's too hard, you could call me on the way home and say "I'm stopping by the store, should I pick you up anything?" That would show me you are thinking about me and it would be a sign of love, I said. He feebly argued this one a little, saying that it sounded a bit materialistic...but I think I got him to agree that gift giving like this was important, so I'd "know" in action he loved me. I told him, if you tell me you love me with actions only at the beginning of the relationship, and later I don't see any signs of it, I'm going to start not beleiving its still true... I said, "every morning a hug you and snuggle you awake cause i know you like that. It's similar for me, I need a sign everyday, something similar, or I can't tell you love me."
p.s. Write - I had to kind of giggle, cause I was thinking of you and other single ladies here as I typed all my gripes - and I was thinking "those single women must be kind of happy to read this and think at least these are some of the problems they're avoiding!" 8)
bean
-
I was thinking about this this morning. I think I've gotten to the point where I'm finally beyond merely subsisting, and I'd like to do more - I'd like to thrive in a relationship.
It's sort of scary, but exciting. I think I will give it a real chance, and this week is the week to do it. I'm ready, we'll see if he is too.
:wink:
What's the worst that can happen? What's the best?
bean
-
Bean,
It is a telling sign that he was with the girlfriend ten years and didn't commit. You are not obsessing. Have you thought about how long you will deal with things as they are? To be completely level-headed, I think you need to have a general plan of what you want out of the relationship and where it should go... that he agrees happily and wholeheartedly to... And I definitely think you should have happiness and joy in a relationship. Otherwise, what is the point? Couldbe is right on target about the need to "walk on eggshells." Whether it's your perception, or because of his actions, that is not a happy way to be part of a couple.
Lots and lots of love, penelope.
Beth
-
I forgot to ask... how is your dog??? I was going to say too, that depending on his breed, it is unlikely the raw beef would have been detrimental or that there would be splintering from the bones. I am feeding Henry a raw-meat diet now and it has been wonderful for his coat, skin and general level of fitness/energy. However, worms can be serious... sis they test for them? What did they say? What kind of dog do you have?
-
Hi Bean,
I'd sure love to know, too. I'm sorry you're going through a crisis right now. I'm glad you broke the ice to share difficulties with your bf. I hope the gridlock shifts and your anxiety eases.
I've read a bit about Dr. John Gottman's work, particularly on communication styles that predict a breakup or a happy future. He's not a pop psychologist, but a serious researcher whose work seems solid to me.
You might Google him and see what you find?
Hope if you do it helps you both.
Hugs,
Hops
-
p.s. Write - I had to kind of giggle, cause I was thinking of you and other single ladies here as I typed all my gripes - and I was thinking "those single women must be kind of happy to read this and think at least these are some of the problems they're avoiding!"
well I have to say you haven't made relationship sound good in this particular post- no sex and feeling miserable and wrong-footed all the time!
But you have been happy some of the time.
I hope it works for you, and it's also good to hear that note of defiance and resiliance coming out as you prepare to assert yourself and ask for what you want and move on if you can't get it with this guy.
-
hi everyone,
I'm feeling a lot better. No more anxiety, walking on eggshells. The ice broke, I may not have said everything I needed to say eloquently, but the important thing is, I said it. That is a huge victory for me in any relationship! (small clapping noise for bean)
The other good thing is that my b/f is responding the way I wanted him too.
He came home yesterday at noon as promised. He talked to his boss before he came home. He told his boss "this is really hard for me to say, but I can't do this (new) job you've given me. I almost quit last year because of the stress, and I just can't deal with this much stress again. Physically, mentally, it is affecting me..." He asked to take the rest of the week off (as planned) and he told him that he needed to start looking for a replacement and that he wanted to go back to the old work he was doing that he enjoyed. They went through the tasks and he picked and chose what he would like to keep.
I was so proud of him. I don't know if he did it for himself or for us, but he told his boss the truth (more than I would have said - he even mentioned he's on medication :shock:), and his boss is a very nice guy, and was very understanding. He said that they'd take care of it, that he is very well respected there, and they don't want to lose him and that he understood.
I was so happy - it looked like a huge weight had been lifted from him, he was smiling and seemed "available." (finally!) When he looked at me, it seemed he finally saw me. I hugged him and said that I was very happy that he did this, told him thank you, and that I thought this was a sign of strength that he did that. Later, he told me how scared he was that he might lose me and that he did not want that.
I guess I feel a little guilty that I gave him an "ultimatum" (tell your boss or this is going to break us) but in all honesty, that's how I felt. Sometimes you have to fight for what you want, and if your SO is seeming "lost" to an addition, be it work or alcohol, or walling themself off, or whatever - that is just not what I want. I have fought too hard to find myself, to live with someone and not have them reach out to "find" me. That is not what I want, nor will I settle for that...
Anyway, pooch is doing better - I'm taking him in for an x-ray friday, just to be sure there's nothing in this throat.
Things are going better all around. I think things will be OK.
Life is interesting in that sometimes you have to risk in order to gain anything. Sometimes we can risk and find that the other person is just as terrified as we are. Sometimes we can risk and discover that we are leading when we thought we were following. Sometimes we find our strength when we don't even know we have it in us.
Anyway, good night everyone, and have a happy happy holiday.
love, bean
-
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
-
Bean,
I'm so happy for you and for your BF.
You were taking care of both of you in a good way, when you asserted what you wanted.
And you let go of the outcome, too.
I'm so impressed!
I hope you two have a lovely day tomorrow and feel closer than ever.
Hops
-
Penelope-
My time is a little short today so I am adding a comment after reading only through part of reply #4. But this is what I heard -
in your first post your b/f was nice on phone angry at home. He said work was bad. You were upset over dog. You both
needed sympathy and kindness from each other. You both were focused on your own stress and concerns and unable to
give to the other. You both felt hurt that the other was focused on "work"/"dog".
Both of you were hurting. Neither of you could reach out to the other.
He actually asked for you to hug him and your pain and fear were too great to comply. My two cents worth are these from the prayer attributed to St. Francis.
Lord, make us instruments of your peace. Where there is hatred, let us sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is discord, union; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light; where there is sadness, joy. Grant that we may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood as to understand; to be loved as to love. For it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen.
Reach out penelope - you will be amazed at how reaching out to him will reach back in to you.
All my love to my dear friend - Gaining Strength
-
Gonna give some concerned comments here. Forgive me if I sound like a protective big sister or something...that's EXACTLY WHAT I AM BEING :) My biggest thing here is, you are NOT married yet. You can LEAVE before things get too bad if you decide to do that. If not, well, I shared what I could to help.
Penelope: I ask timidly…”do you want to get something to eat real quick?” “NO,” he snaps, “I want to go straight home, I’ve had a rough day at work.” I don’t say anything, but my eyebrows raise about ½ inch, mainly because this very scenario played out about a week ago, only it was me asking to go straight home – and guess what he said then? “You’re acting like a spoiled brat, I just need to stop real quick, and you can just wait.“
First warning sign..."i ask TIMIDLY" What is WITH that? why are you timid around this man you seem to want to spend the rest of your life with? That, to me, is a red flag....and a very bright one at that. Then, after you timidly ask, he SNAPS???Dear Lord, Penelope...is this REALLY who you want to spend your life on this planet with? Truly think about this...don't be in the mode of I HAVE TO HAVE A GUY, just in order to feel successful or whatever. It's not worth spending your life with an idiot who verbally and emotionally abuses ya.
I say/think often at this junction in the conversation: "what if I'm just as "crazy" as she is? I come from a very screwed up family..." Of course I am starting to overanalyze it to death by now,
No, you are NOT overanalyzing at all, just as, I think? gratitude told ya. You are being OBJECTIVE! GOOD JOB!
Maybe the ex is irrelevant, maybe I should focus on us and specific things he could do to make me feel more secure in the relationship. I did list a few for him last night (it was a very long night as we "discussed" (my word choice) this, again). I said, sometimes people like to know with signs that you love them. For example, when I'm sick, you could pick up something from the store for me on the way home - a gift, something I don't need to ask for. Or if that's too hard, you could call me on the way home and say "I'm stopping by the store, should I pick you up anything?"
You seem to have a really serious problem of DOUBTING YOURSELF, Pen. You know EXACTLY what is going on here, and no, it's not just YOU exaggerating or misinterpreting the situation. Hear your own heart and FOLLOW IT, PLEASE! Your tendency will be to EXCUSE an abuser's behavior, even though something does not FEEL right. This time, TRUST YOURSELF, not the doubts. You have every right to ASK for what you need and HE has a responsibility to make an effort. I'm MARRIED to someone who was raised in an emotionally-NIL family. I HATE it ! I do not believe in divorce personally, but I DO believe in LEAVING a live-in boyfriend/girlfriend while your identity and dignity are still in tact, if needed.
gratitude: Bean,
It is a telling sign that he was with the girlfriend ten years and didn't commit.
HELLO. I agree with this 100%...the real showing of a person's future behavior is very often his PAST.
You are not obsessing. Have you thought about how long you will deal with things as they are? To be completely level-headed, I think you need to have a general plan of what you want out of the relationship and where it should go... that he agrees happily and wholeheartedly to... And I definitely think you should have happiness and joy in a relationship. Otherwise, what is the point? Couldbe is right on target about the need to "walk on eggshells." Whether it's your perception, or because of his actions, that is not a happy way to be part of a couple.
Yes! have a PLAN and, like during a fire, also know where the EXIT is!
~Laura
-
Thank you GS, your comments are extremely helpful.
Hello Laura & Beth,
I do have a plan. Sort of (as much as my own foggy self will allow - as we're dealing also with my own limitations in this relationship here).
One of the things I asked for and will stick to is that I want to spend some of our vacations together, rather than with his family. When we're together, I'd like him to be present (not pining away for them). I feel this is very unhealthy. I don't know why he does it - I think it may have to do with his Dad having PTSD, and thus feeling he must take care of his feelings. Holidays are prime days to do this. So whilst worrying/fretting about his Dad, he neglects Us. He forgets to enjoy himself and relax with me. This is something that is very easy to recognize, but extremely hard for me to point out to him (Tactfully) and "prove" is happening. It's all feelings I get, but he seems to sabotoge our holidays together, even if only in subtle ways, if we're not with his parents.
I have learned that demanding he change immediately, is probably not a good course of action. I need to have some patience, and approach him in a loving way about this.
bean
-
That sounds like a good start penelope. Keep looking for more actions like that that you can take.
Remember - stay detached from his response. Imagine the response you least want to get from
him and imagine yourself not getting emotionally riled up but remaining calm.
I am learning to do this with my son. He tends to be very negative and oppositional. Today
we went to the store and he selected some Spagetti O's off the shelf. I had planned to have
more turkey but that is what he chose. We got home I asked him if he was ready for the
spagetti o's. He said, "yes." So I heated it up and served it to him. He got angry, said he didn't
want them today and he wasn't going to eat them. I told him just what I wrote above - that he picked
them and said he wanted to eat them. I wanted to get stark raving mad but that only makes things
explode. So I just let the matter drop. A little later he asked what I was going to fix him for lunch.
I told him I had fixed the spagetti o's as he asked me to and that that was lunch. Again he got angry but
I remained calm. I offered him some string cheese but I was not going to fix anything else because I had
done exactly what he asked me and then had been yelled at when I did.
All in all - my point here is that rather than repeat my patterns from growing up, I did not get into the
fray with him. The battle didn't escalate because I simply refused to get upset. I can't tell you how helpful
this is. It is truly life changing for me. I feel in control of my life in that regard for the first time. Other people's
actions no longer control me, my anger, my whole day. To have gotten here in my late 40s after trying my
whole adult life is nothing short of a miracle. Don't waste 20 more years getting here. Start trying to claim your
power back right now!!! You can do it and we can help you. - your friend - Gaining Strength
-
Pb,
I have learned that demanding he change immediately, is probably not a good course of action. I need to have some patience, and approach him in a loving way about this.
It is very wise of you to figure this out. No one can demand that someone else change. If someone is going to make a change in behavior, they have to want to do that for themselves. It's fine for the person wanting to make change to ask for help and patience while making the transition, but changing for someone else's sake, is never going to be permanent or comfortable. You need to imagine how you would feel if he were making such a demand of you. It is not fair or healthy to place those kinds of demands on people we love.
At my age, what I have learned about relationships (many hours of therapy, too) is that we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Finding a partner who can complement those strengths and weaknesses is sometimes the best we can hope for. That they will change to meet our expectations is something I now know is not realistic. If there is a behavior that you cannot live with, save yourself the aggravation and move on to find someone whose behaviors can blend more easily with your own. If your partner meets your expectations in the most important areas, but falls short in the lesser areas, learn to compromise and live with it, as there will never be anyone who perfectly meets your goals for a life companion. Only you can know what those most important characteristics are and how closely your b/f matches up.
I don't know what to say about the vacation situation. I admit that it would bother me too, as I look forward to the vacations with my b/f and the many hours of fun, relaxed, intimate time together we share, that is difficult to have on a day-to-day basis. As a word of caution, I would say that my xh never wanted to go away with me alone as he knew I would have expectations of intimacy and alone time which I know now he dreaded and avoided. I would suggest trying to get to the root of the issue in the most loving and inviting way that you can, so he does not feel threatened or cornered. Maybe the T can help with that.
Hugs,
Brigid
-
Brigid, can I come live in your head for a while?
(I wish I'd had, or more to the point listened to, such sane advice when I was busy trying to control and change my sundry bfs... Whether they were N or not, I was always all inspired by The Project. AUUGHHH.)
Now I know better, so maybe if I catch me a nice geezer one day, he'll never know what he's missed. :?
PB, I think the simplest thing that keeps popping in my head as I read your brave new bf posts is:
1) It's always a good thing to ask for what you want
2) But only if you let go of the outcome
Stay-Go decisions are a separate thing.
hugs both,
Hops
-
that was NOT the sort of plan I was referring to, but you do whatever works for ya
-
Hi Laura, how was your Thanksgiving? How are you?
1) It's always a good thing to ask for what you want
2) But only if you let go of the outcome
love this Hops.
there will never be anyone who perfectly meets your goals for a life companion. Only you can know what those most important characteristics are and how closely your b/f matches up.
yes, it's a compromise isn't it. Takes a while to get the balance when you've already trodden 'a compromise too far'! I know I'm too far the other way right now- looking for perfection from the get-go....
The battle didn't escalate because I simply refused to get upset.
it's a release of tension isn't it, to shout or scream or slap....and it becomes a habit with the whole family. It's hard with my ex because sometimes it feels whatever we decide he does the opposite, so when we decided no more yelling near our son, no inappropriate comments or insults etc. in some ways he does it more simply because he's got it in his head- she's trying to tell me what to do. Even though that came out of a lecture to me from him about all the things I was doing wrong and what we should do instead!
My ex's mother was very controlling, he confuses others with her all the time.
I need to have some patience, and approach him in a loving way about this.
Sounds good.
-
Hops,
I wish I'd had, or more to the point listened to, such sane advice when I was busy trying to control and change my sundry bfs... Whether they were N or not, I was always all inspired by The Project. AUUGHHH.)
ME TOO :shock: Where was I when I needed me. :? :?
I am of the mind now that I view men as playthings rather than projects. :lol:
Write,
I know I'm too far the other way right now- looking for perfection from the get-go....
I'm not sure that I would recognize or know "perfection" if it came and sat on me. Do you have an idea of what perfection would mean to you? I do think that perception changes a fair amount over time too. What was desirable in my 20's, is very different from what is desirable now in my 50's.
Brigid
-
hi guys,
I don't mind at all if you continue your dialogue above.
I thought I'd give a quick update on the doggie too. I took him to the vet again yesterday. My vet seems very kind. He's said a couple times now that C word... cancer. The doggie's spleen is enlarged for sure. He took 6 more x-rays (only charged me for 2!). We're sending all the x-rays out to a radiologist for a professional opinion/report. We'll know more Monday afternoon/Tuesday at the latest.
In typical form, I was on the internet last night researching doggie cancer - especially the kinds related to enlarged spleen. It makes me feel better to know what we're dealing with (maybe). Also in typical form, my b/f was going deeper into denial that anything is wrong with the doggie (he says I'm being too negative). :? Well, this is not as frustrating to me as it normally would be after reading (and rereading) all the awesome words above. I don't need him to agree with me. I do need to let him be him, and let myself be me. So. I'll continue to worry. He can do whatever he wants. I did ask him and he agreed to no hard playing with the dog - petting and loving him is fine- but the vet said no walks, or running around in the yard or wrestling type playing. This is hard for my b/f, to not do this. We'll see if he 'remembers' this agreement (sometimes he forgets things he's agreed to).
love,
bean
-
:(
(((((((((((((Bean's woof))))))))))))
Hops
-
I'm not sure that I would recognize or know "perfection" if it came and sat on me. Do you have an idea of what perfection would mean to you?
yes, someone who was clear, open, sincere and happy.
However I know that most people even when they are these things also have elements of their lives which don't fit the whole picture, baggage from previous relationships, and variations in mood and communication!
I think right now I am over-sensitised, still raw.
My friend who knows el crusho, I told her when I started developing feelings for him and she said 'it's too soon- you're too leery...'
And she was right- every time we've been out I have behaved more outrageously really- so much for relaxing and enjoying someone's company, as soon as I had feelings I started testing and looking for weaknesses!
I am getting better at being present and not 'looking for outcomes' as Hops points out.
But not nearly there yet!
***
Just had a lovely 90 minute chat wth the Indian guy I have been corresponding with for the past few weeks, we met in the summer and liked each other but he is about to take finals and I was about to file for divorce so we even said we didn;t have time to write to each other. Then did anyway!
That is going better than the friendship with el crusho simply because he is kinder and more mature I think- he's lived a bit more.
I find I can tell him things without the defensiveness that is developing with the other guy because he doesn't know what I'm talking about, it's outside his experience or comfort level to hear about.
***
Hope the dog is okay Bean.
-
I don't need him to agree with me. I do need to let him be him, and let myself be me. So. I'll continue to worry. He can do whatever he wants. I did ask him and he agreed to no hard playing with the dog - petting and loving him is fine- but the vet said no walks, or running around in the yard or wrestling type playing.
That's it pbean. you got it!!!! Way to go!!!! your friend - GS
-
(((GS)))))))
Going back to your post... you did the right thing with your son. Is he just testing you right now? Do you know the reason?
Penelope...
Lots of love to your baby. Henry has had cysts lately, but they were not cancerous or dnagerous. They just got infected. I wish you something easy like that with your dog...
Love to all of you. Laura, I liked your responses and you clarified what I meant to say, penelope, which is that you aren't legally tied now... so make sure this is what you want before you do anything to make it permanent. Also, I believe that you can love and/or care deeply about someone and he can still not be husband material... hard to think with our brains as opposed to our hearts sometimes.
(((((((((((((((((everyone)))))))))))