Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: axa on December 19, 2006, 09:11:33 AM
-
Sorry guys..........posting like crazy today to get some of this stuff out of my system and grap some reality for myself.
Supply...........I am the queen of supply. I cannot keep my mouth shut. Hops said in one of her posts you do not have to tell him anything. This is where I get unstuck so often. I tell and tell and tell in some sort of crazy hope that I will be heard. The reality is that he never has heard me and never will. So this is about me. I would really like to hear what people have to say about the drive to go back and become supply again and again as I have.
Taking up a lot of space on the board today. Thank you all for your patience.
axa
-
axa,
I understand too well about how you feel.
I tended to go back to Jodi over and over again and then kick myself later for it. It was always the same. It was an online relationship, cause as she said and I obediently agreed, "we only get along online so it's meant to be just a computer relationship." that was called, Jodi not wanting to see the things she once said we had in common, because I didn't totally fit her description of everything she wanted, which changed like the weather, anyway.
It would be the same thing...me trying to chat with her online and observing her just sit there, pondering what I wrote, and not commenting until I happened to mention something about HER. Feeling ignored and devalued over and over again and telling myself "well at least she's still talking to me" UGH! I settled for the crumbs in that relationship!
Once I started telling her how I felt, that I noticed she never commented till I said certain things, she went through a common pattern that I later saw with the next person in her life...it went like this:
Oh, I don't mean to ignore you, not at all...I'm sorry you felt that way...to I can't BELIEVE you'd think I was ignoring you!...to "well you need to really deal with those insecurity issues!" (mind you, this was all in the same conversation with her, one response right after the other)...then, I got to see it when she did the same thing to someone else, just a year later..."I'm sorry, I can't BELIEVE, That's YOUR problem!" There was NEVER an "I'm sorry, I will really try harder to hear your heart and validate you"...WHY? do you ask, could she not say that? Because Jodi was geared only to ZOOM IN on anything that pierced her protective armor over her image. She could let me "ramble" but not have a thing to say until I said something that made HER image look less than PERFECT to me or to others. She was always so quick to defend her "self" to me, to make sure I saw her as benevolent, always "there" for me, etc....when, in actuality, the complete opposite was true.
She used me to find out info about her next "friend" so that when she ditched me and picked up with her, she'd not behave in ways that would tip her off or in ways that she could "compare notes" with me and get the same idea about her...anyway, sorry to get all into that again, or am I? It does good to talk about these things sometimes, if it means someone here can feel less alone and bewildered.
Bless you, axa
Better days are ahead!
-
Yah you are right better days ahead for all of us I hope. The thing that bugs me is that I know the theory. No contact means no supply. Why do we keep going back there giving, giving, giving when I know it is hopeless. Not true really when I know there is only more abuse waiting round the corner. Why do we choose to give to those have nothing to give back but abuse. That to me is the big question right now.
axa
-
Hi CB
Thank you for making some really interesting points. Yes I have a need to be proved right!!!!! I could predict his behaviours, would tell him before he acted out, then explain that I had foretold the outcome and I was right. And I got hurt and he got what he wanted. I have some compulsion around the need to be right as if it holds some high moral ground. There is something in this about me being the all-good and him being the all-bad, or maybe it was something about me being smarter than him in some way. As I write this I can hear VICTIM coming up for me.
I really got off on the idea that I was getting through to him. He would come back to me and tell me that he had thought about what i said and he could see where I was coming from..... heck this was not a crumb this was a thick slice of bread for me, or so I thought. The bit I kept forgetting was that he would then proceed to act out in the same way pre "insight" so nothing changed. It was very very clever of him because in some way it fed my ego and also fooled me into thinking we were making progress.
I am challenged by the idea that by not blocking his number, emails etc I am getting something out of it. Think you might have hit on something big here. I really need to think about it. Is there some part of me hoping he will "see sense" (madness on my part) and return as someone else? Boy that is quite a challenge to dig into this stuff. Thank you so much for raising this issue for me. Gotta turn this over in my head and come back to it.
Hope I will be throwing the crown of my queendom away ever ever so soon.
Thank you so much
axa
-
Thank you for making some really interesting points. Yes I have a need to be proved right!!!!!
I think I went through that too, but I quickly learned, that, because Jodi is a minister, people were more likely to take her word over mine. I had to decide that "I know what I saw, heard, experienced." I had to know that I HAVE been proven right! In God's court, Jodi's justification of why she did what she did, would NEVER stand...that is my consolation for as long as I live. For all the times she tried to come back into my life so she could LOOK like the "friend who never leaves people" and I had to keep telling myself not to trust again, cause she was just passing through to ease a guilt trip over having deserted me (the one thing she promised not to ever do), and then she'd be off again to spend time with her new "friend"
I could predict his behaviours, would tell him before he acted out, then explain that I had foretold the outcome and I was right.
I could predict Jodi's behaviors too, but I don't remember telling her that I was. It was just a personal satisfaction of "you will NOT git me again, chic! cause I see right THRU you. YOU no longer are in control here, even though everyone at your house bows at your feet. I no longer will be manipulated or controlled."
You mentioned that he would come back and tell you he thought about what you said...
I can't tell you the countless times Jodi did this one! No change came of it, however. I was still replaced and she still left.
You said you haven't changed your number, blocked his emails
Same here. Jodi knows she isn't blocked I'm sure, although I did finally build up the courage to delete her name online and some of the emails of the past from her, etc. That took a LOT to even do that much, strange as it might sound. I guess I just really didn't want to believe the words IT IS OVER!~
you might have hit on something big here. I really need to think about it. Is there some part of me hoping he will "see sense" (madness on my part) and return as someone else?
Interesting thought here, axa...cause Jodi DID return as "someone else" and pretend to be someone who KNEW her...it didn't make things any better...it just gave me a false sense of hope, which later she even told me "I don't want to build your hopes up or give you a false sense of hope about things working out. Things will never be like they were again!" talk about feeling totally CUT OFF! It was like, when I heard those words, I somehow knew that this person MEANT THEM AND WOULD DO EVERYTHING IN HER POWER TO BE SURE THAT SHE NEVER FELT THE SAME ABOUT ME AGAIN. Others have said those things to me, but I just sort of laughed them off saying "yeah ok _____" With Jodi, there was no "yeah ok (as in, you'll be back), cause she could literally almost make you feel like she had suddenly ERASED you from her affections. YOu began feeling like you never even WERE close in her life. It's weird, indescribable, disillusioning, but anyone who has been through it knows what I mean.
I remember a few times telling Jodi, "what I noticed was that everyone in your family pretty much considers you a queen and does whatever you say. They walk on eggshells around you." This really BOTHERED her big time. She said "that's not true."
These people really do NOT or do not WANT to see what they do to other people. It's all SAD!
~RM
-
TO BE SURE THAT SHE NEVER FELT THE SAME ABOUT ME AGAIN
And what she felt for you, even when it felt so good to you...
she didn't feel for you a reciprocal, respectful, mutual friendship love...though it may have resembled it at the time.
Hops
-
hops:
she didn't feel for you a reciprocal, respectful, mutual friendship love...though it may have resembled it at the time.
RESEMBLED, being the operative word and the ESSENCE Of Narcissism
-
Exactly, RM....
so even if by some magic Jodi did change back...it wouldn't be the same, but you now recognize that it was not real love anyway. So you wouldn't want it!
Better fish out there to fry for you. I know it.
Hops
-
Exactly, RM....
so even if by some magic Jodi did change back...it wouldn't be the same, but you now recognize that it was not real love anyway. So you wouldn't want it!
Better fish out there to fry for you. I know it.
Hops
Um, no, actually, if Jodi did change, I'd take her back...I mean if she got help, admitted that she knew her behavior was dysfunctional and a pattern, I would.
-
Right...wouldn't we all with the hurtful Ns in our lives, whom we hung onto like pit bulls waiting for the change.
I'm glad we're not waiting any more.
Hops
-
Hops
I felt such a sigh of relief when I read "we are not waiting anymore". This was one of my overriding feelings when with xn always waiting, for him to show some love, to make a commitment, to change, to acknowledge my needs, to love me............ the list is endless. When I threw him out I had a great sense of the waiting being over. As if I was waiting to live. I could not bear the half life place I spent all that time in.
When I woudl grab a bit of life he would be angry that I took the initiative. I would be so pleased with myself for stepping out and doing something but the punishment was withdrawal or humiliation. Glad to be free of that. Nothing was right, if I did something it was wrong if I did nothing it was wrong. Just could not win no matter what.
axa
-
Bean,
I know the half life so well and today I must admit it seemed attractive again until I went back and read posts here. I want to grab the real life but I feel like part of me has been cut off even if it was diseased.
Those bloody crumbs........ i was so grateful for them. I know it is fundementaly about loving myself and feeling I deserve what is good but I struggle so much with that. I think there is something big here about taking responsibility for my OWN life. I want it fixed ... by someone else. I know I can live alone but I dont like it. Today I came home to a dark empty house and it felt so sad.
This is not how I thought my life would turn out. I know along the way I have learned so much but this feels quite empty. At some level I was aware that having XN in the house filled up some of the space. I paid a very expensive price for that but it kept some part of me soothed.
I realise that my addiction is kicking in at the moment and want contact with XN but will not make it. I am clear about that. I too feel sad and empty right now, so heres looking at you sister.
-
To all:
Ah yes -- the "half life" -- the "tortured limbo" -- the "settling for crumbs" -- the "sad and empty house" -- how very familiar to all of us, including me.
Thanks to all for holding the line and requiring more!
-
Couldbe
What I find difficult about the empty house is that I am linked into some idea that this is not how it SHOULD be. If I let go of the SHOULD what I have is a lovely home with no abuse, no waiting, no walking on eggshells, no anxiety that someone will call that XN does not like, no wondering when he is going to leave, no anxiety................ this is ok!!!!!
At present I am unemployed but have applied for a job I want int he New Year. I hope I will get it and feel that I have a reasonable chance.
In the evenings, I read, listen to music, spend time here, visit friends, paint............ not so bad really!!!!!!!!!
axa
-
To CouldBe123:
I have had so many years with very little privacy or time of my own
I guess the grass is always greener. You had one extreme, I have the other. I have lived alone my whole adult life.
What is the hardest about coming home to the dark house? The feeling that there is no one there to greet you?
Yes. If I thought it was temporary, that might change my feeling.
-
hanging on to the Narcissist is really something that I think of as being hard wired into me. My mom was an N and I learned at an early age to try to get her to acknowledge me. I think that is one reason that I find it next to impossible to resist the urges to try to get it right with Mr. N. It will never be OK because he takes pleasure and power in destabilizing me. It is a deadly dance. I have sworn off contacting him since I phoned him and got a tongue lashing and felt humiliated. I was trying to tell him some important information about our separation and he accused me of making Agony calls. Agony calls. That stung.
I never did get to tell him what he needed to know.
I don't think the addiction to Mr. N. is about him anymore. It is about me and my conditioning to want love and empathy from someone who is NEVER going to give it. Not because I am unloveable but because he just cant give love and caring.
Sea Storm
-
Not because I am unloveable but because he just cant
yes yes YES
Bravo, Sea.
((((((Sea))))))
Hops
-
Seastorm,
Absolutly, this is how I feel also. I guess people who have had a "normal" upbringing would walk but I too keep on in there. Full of hope, maglignant hope!! i agree it is not about the N it is about our desperate need to be seen and loved by the N. I think it is so enormous to believe that someone you love does not care at all for you that we refuse to believe it. The Ns behaviour TELLS us time and time again that they do not care yet we refuse to believe it until we hit rock bottom.
Occasionally I tell myself it was not that bad but it WAS. This time last year the games were in full flight. I was ill, I was near a breakdown, I could not eat or sleep and he just left me to get on with it. He did not care. He tried to pull the same games this year but I said NO and found the courage to throw him out of my lfie. AS with any addiciton I think it is just a day at a time and that is what I am trying to do. I thnk it important to hold onto the lows, of which there were so many and forget the highs. I came to realise that when there was a rush of "love" it was followed by a particulariy cruel game, I was being set up.
I think of the word "grooming" and this applies to my situation.
axa
-
Jade,
I think you're right. It is a grass is greener perspective. I know that it would be very hard to be where you are, and very discouraging if you didnt see a solution.
I get frustrated because I would like some alone time. People make suggestions, ask me out to lunch, etc. and I hardly take them up on it. It's so hard to get out of my rut--even though I am sick of never being able to unwind and to have no one to take care of. But it feels somehow unnatural to do anything about it, so I dont.
So, I'm not going to make any simplistic suggestions about how to change your life. I know that there are a lot of things that go into your situation that I dont know anything about. It is so discouraging to get a pep talk when you still have things to process in order to do life any other way.
Just know that we are here to listen and give you a shoulder to cry on. And I will still pray that you will have a wonderful Christmas in some very unexpected ways.
CB
-
I think it is so enormous to believe that someone you love does not care at all for you that we refuse to believe it. The Ns behaviour TELLS us time and time again that they do not care yet we refuse to believe it until we hit rock bottom.
This is it, this is the absolute center of it, this is what keeps us hooked and sinking...
AS with any addiciton I think it is just a day at a time and that is what I am trying to do. I thnk it important to hold onto the lows, of which there were so many and forget the highs. I came to realise that when there was a rush of "love" it was followed by a particulariy cruel game, I was being set up.
I think of the word "grooming" and this applies to my situation.
axa
Axa, I have no doubt in my mind that abusers know what they are doing, either consciously or subconsciously, and that they do definitely 'groom' us to accept being abused.
It's particularly hard to struggle with this during the holidays... but remember your own wise words:
If I let go of the SHOULD what I have is a lovely home with no abuse, no waiting, no walking on eggshells, no anxiety that someone will call that XN does not like, no wondering when he is going to leave, no anxiety................ this is ok!!!!!
much much truth in that... and it's a lot better than OK, it's GOOD. :cool:
-
Hi CB123:
Thanks for your thoughtful post. It sounds like we both need some balance -- you need more relaxed solitude, I need more positive engagement with the world. Maybe we'll continue seeking these things in the new year.
Please see my post in the "Happy Holidays" thread! :D
-
edit
-
CB,
What an attitude.
I am awed.
(And so glad about your boy...)
hugs,
Hops
-
Axa,
This topic hit home. I still talk to my mother fairly often and I think the reason is because I so badly want her to show her true colors. Of course I see them, but I feel like I am baiting her in a way to get her to make the sort of obvious behavior pattern so that I could say, "Aha, see world, she is awful!!!" This is both pointless and ridiculous. I have all of you here and should know and be content with the fact that I am not making it up. But somewhere inside I want PROOF. I think my dad knows and has known for a long time. There are many past conversations and events that make me think this. But will he, or should he, even, acknlowledge that his life's partner is nuts??? He is fairly content with his hobbies... it seems to me he doesn't want to rock the boat.
So, axa, I still supply, because I maintain contact. I wish you all the strength in the world to cut off your supply to him...
((((((((axa)))))
Love, Beth
-
CB
Really pleased that things are progresing for your son. And well done for being so healthy around the hospital time.
Gratitude,
I believe I set things up unconsciously also to get PROOF. This I think is part of the addiction. I have no doubt that we both have more than enough proof of the abuse but its like needing one last shot at it. It is never ending as long as we stay hooked in. This I know of my situation. It could never get better only worse and I have proof of that also.
As for your Dad, I think he has made his choices in his life and has adapted to them. He is not you. The pain of the relationship for you is so difficult. I think it comes back to ourselves and why we stay hooked in there. Looking beneath our behaviour and seeing what is the pay off....which is negative.... somehow seems to help to release some energy and create some healing........well I think so.
xx
axa
-
Yah you are right better days ahead for all of us I hope. The thing that bugs me is that I know the theory. No contact means no supply. Why do we keep going back there giving, giving, giving when I know it is hopeless. Not true really when I know there is only more abuse waiting round the corner. Why do we choose to give to those have nothing to give back but abuse. That to me is the big question right now.
axa
I'm keep thinking the samething with my mom. I love my mom, but she is very toxic to me. She was the only one in the family who gave me the time of day in our family, even though she is toxic.... :(
-
Thanks axa, and you are right. As much as I try, I still absorb other's feelings.
All, this has so much wonderful analysis and so many deep pockets of ideas that I want to reread it all. The thread hit so many points...
And, storm, I think you are right... abusers do know, one way or another, that they are being cruel or setting up the stage for that cruelty. I think proof of that to us in "the look" that our abusers get when they are being nasty or getting ready to do so...
Thanks again, all.